[inaudible] .
Speaker 2It's what it takes. It takes the courage, it takes the willingness to say, I'm gonna make something mediocre. And that is beautiful because the only way to something brilliant is don't let yourself make something mediocre.
Speaker 1Hi there hustler . Are you ready for another episode of the Jasmine star show? Well ready or not? Here we go, baby boo. So let's get this party started. Today's episode is one of my favorite . Since starting this podcast, I am letting you in on a conversation I had with my incredibly smart, introspective, absolutely hilarious friend Cathy Hiller as creator and host of don't keep your day job. Cathy Heller is growing one of the biggest, most engaged audiences in podcasting. Her podcast has over 10 million downloads and it 10 million with an M yall with an M. prior to her podcast, Kathy handcrafted a career as a songwriter and she licensed her music to film and TV and advertising. So basically she's the coolest. She's one of my coolest friends. I don't even know why she likes to hang out with me, but she's one upping it because she's going to be hanging out with us. I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation with my sweet friend Kathy . So I am going to stop talking so you can start listening. Enjoy. Now, I've told you this a thousand times before, but I am thrilled to get to chat because the minute we met, we both immediately know we love being messy, like, well, actually I should say I'm a neat person in real life, but when it comes to building a business, I think that being messy is the fastest way to learn and grow. And I know based on our friendship and past conversations, you are a proponent of the mess as well, but I really like your spin on it because you say that being messy means that you could put beautiful things out in the world and that will lead you to ways to make a living. Can you explain that?
Speaker 2Yes. Well, first of all, it's such an honor to be looking at you right now and being on your show, because I told you this before we started recording, but everyone who's listening, you know this Jasmine, it's as if you like channel the word of God. Like you're such an empowering light in this world. Oh my God. [inaudible] people see themselves. That's your gift. You show people what's possible and to show someone what's possible is the it's , it's the greatest, greatest gift . So what I want to say about that is that everyone who's listening, and I know this because I've been on the planet long enough to know that everyone who's listening at some point by the age of four or nine, you got your heartbroken. Either somebody walked out or somebody passed away, or you loved someone who didn't love you back or you were rejected. I mean, it's real. And so I'm starting there because what happens is, as little human beings, we develop survival skills, thank God to get us through incredible pain. And what often happens as a result is we create a strategy which says, I know what I'll do. I don't want to be in pain. So I won't put myself out there. I won't reach my arms out. I will make sure that before I take any step forward, I absolutely am crystal clear that the thing will work and that I will get the approval of this person and that this person's love will still be in my life and I won't make too much noise and I won't make too much mess because God forbid I am in that situation again and someone doesn't love me anymore. Or I do this thing like when I'm eight and I made something I loved and someone said, you think that that's worthy of being out in the world, you know? Or I loved my father and he walked out and never came back. So it's really actually scary. We, we stop allowing ourself to be vulnerable and messy and we almost do something which is even scarier than that, which is we tell ourselves this lie, which is, Oh, I'm good. I don't even want it. Like we convince ourselves, Oh, I don't even really want to be an artist or pick up a camera or I don't really even want to write music or I don't even need a different job. I'm fine. It's fine. It's all fine. Um, because if I want it, then I actually might get my heartbroken. The stakes are high. So yeah, I do think that every successful person, I know the thing that they have in common is they allow themselves [inaudible] to do the things, even when it isn't perfect, even when they are messy. And I do believe that there's a synchronicity that shows up when you commit to just like doing the things and whether you want to call it God or the universe or magic, you will be led to how you can serve, when you have the courage to [inaudible] to show up, even when you don't know all the steps .
Speaker 1I love that we're start . Wow. I mean, you're just bringing the fire because we're starting this conversation and we, and we , we start by saying, I immediately, I love how grounding you are because I immediately went to, when it comes to doing things in business, it has to be messy, right? Like I like being messy and you're just like, skirt. We're going to not talk about what we see often on social, right? We're going to talk about why, why is there an aversion to messy ? So instead of me saying, Oh , let's do stuff messy, you went to the root of it. It's like, why are we afraid of the mess? And we're afraid of the mess because we're afraid of being rejected or seen or not reciprocated. And so here we are, like Kathy had said, it's pick up a guitar, pick up a camera, or what if it's just you really want to be a Baker, right? What if this is like you really want to be a dog Walker or a cat groomer and you won't let yourself be seen because you're afraid that people won't respond to it. So since we're all being warm and fuzzy right now, what is something in your business that is messy for you? And you're saying, I'm okay with it being messy because it's going to get me to where I need to go.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh. I mean literally every single thing that I've ever done, I was never a standout like UNT , UCLA, you're really, really smart.
Speaker 1Now I'm a hustler needing to stay . Take a sandbag and take us.
Speaker 2You want to hate her, right? Cause she's all so gorgeous and you're like, no on the level that you're like, all right , cool . Um , I wasn't that bright in school. I wasn't the best songwriter when I started songwriting . I was not the best podcaster . I remember starting my podcast, this is two and a half years ago to 2017 and
Speaker 1hold on, hold on, hold on. I like it . You're building up this story, but y'all, I should come out . I said this in the intro, but it bears repeating right now is Kathy's podcast in two years, just past the 10 million download Mark. So Kathy says, Oh, I'm just an average girl with a guitar. I'm like, no queen. You're basically having audio domination, but okay, so when you started here, but that's the point. But that's the point. That's what you're saying, right? Like I didn't know that the podcast would become what it is. So let's let, let's talk about the mess. Thank
Speaker 2you for that. You're so generous. Like, dude, like ah , um, that is one of your gifts by the way, is your generosity and how much you see other people. Because after I answered your first question, you went, hang on Kath , let me just take out a highlighter and circle what you just did, which made me feel like, wow, does she get me? And by the way, that's the crux of what you do. And that is the crux of successful business is radical empathy like that, mr . Think even that's what you have, no matter how successful you become, you are so yourself. You are so empathetic. And being on the inside and having lots of colleagues now who are super successful, you have not changed a single bit since becoming a successful you . And that is such a blessing. When I started this podcast, yes, I was living in my old house before I started making multi seven figures and I was sitting in my closet recording a show and I rerecorded it eight times. Okay. Now my podcast is an hour. So I literally, the first episode is you usually, if you're gonna start a podcast, you , you do your first episode, just you, you say why you're doing it, what people can expect. Oh my God, did I not like what I said and say that and redid it. And by the time I was done, I hadn't sitting in the closet for eight hours with the air conditioning off so it wouldn't make any noise. I had sent my husband out with the kids so that they wouldn't make any noise. My throat was so sore and I thought, I, I can't do this. I absolutely won't do this. There's no way. It's so bad, blah, blah, blah. And then I realized, yeah, if you do it this way, where you overthink it so much, you'll never have a podcast. And so what you're going to have to do is tolerate the feeling of being inadequate. And that's, that's 100% what it is. Everyone who's listening has Michael Jordan talent at something. I guarantee it. But guess what? Mozart was not born that way. Serena Williams was not born that way. You have to give yourself the grace to show up and be messy. Ed Sheeran, who's a songwriter who obviously I love so much, he was talking about songwriting. He's like, it's as if you went to a cabin in Vermont and this applies to any craft, any business, anything, even a relationship, even being a parent, anything. He says you go to a cabin in Vermont, no one's been there for six months and your friend's like, let's make some pasta. So you turn the water on and you're like, Oh no, the water's Brown. Sludgy and it runs a little bit and your friend's like, let's go into town, we'll get some food. And you're like, hold up. Like let the water run. 12 seconds later you got clear water, everything's fine. Just the pipes hadn't been turned on. It just natural. So ed Sheeran was like, look, people look at me like, how did you become such an incredible songwriter? One after another billboard 100 he goes, cause the first eight songs weren't great. And then the next 20 after that were a little better. And I gave myself the patients to let myself become a master of something to become, to find my voice. And that's what it takes. It takes the courage, it takes the willingness to say, I'm gonna make something mediocre. And that is beautiful because the only way to something brilliant is to let yourself make something mediocre. And by the way, you're going to be your worst critic. So other people won't even think it's as mediocre as you think it is. But I think that everybody has this gift and what you're missing is momentum. And I don't think successful people are smarter than you or have a better zip code or a better whatever it is. I think it's this willingness to do things like you feel like throwing up, you'd do it anyway. You're scared. You get on stage anyway. You don't know if the thing is good you posted anyway. I love that. Like social media has like such a legacy. Like, I could scroll back Jasmine on your Instagram and go back three years and you can see the evolution of how clearly now you know what you do, who you serve, how you do it. I love that. Like that wasn't that way initially because you gave yourself the time to iterate. Okay, so there's so much that just happened here, but the , the greatest gift that you can give Kathy as you're listening is to rate this quote on Instagram and tag her and
Speaker 1tag me cause I wanna start re purposing. It's to have the courage to be mediocre. What would it look like for you to go out and you tell your friends, your families and your followers that today I have the courage to be mediocre. What would that look like if you went out publicly and said, I've been given the permission to be mediocre. It's just like that scene in eight mile where M and M calls himself out for all of his flaws before anybody else can. Kathy just gave you the permission slip to be mediocre. What can you create in mediocrity until you become a master? That's what I wanted .
Speaker 2And you literally just brought tears to my eyes because before I moved to LA, I had graduated college and I moved, I went to Jerusalem on like a three week trip and I stayed for three years. And when I came to LA, what I wanted to do was make sure that every person new , that they were put here for a reason, that you are a masterpiece, you're a piece of the master and you are needed. You have been assigned. And the thing is, you know it, I just took my kids to see frozen too . I have three little kids, so obviously I'm not going to give anything away, but every movie I've ever seen in my whole life comes down to the fact that the hero of that movie knows that there is something bigger that they were put here to do. And there is some resistance that they have to break through in order to show up as their potential. And what Jasmine just told you, which again so generous that you just ask people to tack . That's, that's you sister. Um , you hold the keys to unlocking that cage that keeps you stuck. Hmm . God puts you here. There are no extras and you are, you are here because the world is broken and we are needed to help repair it. What's incredible is the opposite of depression is not happiness, it's purpose. We are deeply seeking to be in service, to contribute to do our thing. And that stupid little crazy thing that you call like that silly idea. Oh I just, I guess if I could do what I loved, I'd be opening this business or I we be leading women's groups or I whatever is this thing that you keep sloughing off because instead you're sitting in building someone else's dream or you're selling yourself short. It's there for a reason and it's not going to keep knocking until you open the door. It's just going to keep knocking louder. And what's in the way is that you won't let yourself do it unless you're absolutely perfect. And the irony of that is they've done studies on like what makes something go viral, a podcast, a blog and Instagram posts. Like what is it? Is it the celebrity of it? How famous the person is? Is it how much information isn't it? No, it's how much the post or the or the blog or the podcast reflects the feelings of the person who's scrolling, which means that we are all deeply looking to connect and we are deeply looking to feel seen. And so when you're broken and you allow it to be okay that you're not perfect and you can bring all the parts of you to the table, people actually love you more. Like your messiness becomes your message, your pain becomes your purpose. It only elevates because , thank God it's like a real normal person. And Jasmine, that's why people love you because you don't lean into the fact that you happen to be stunning cause you could it just be too easy to be like, I'm just going to be one of those people .
Speaker 1Well who is it , Kathy ? It's an Instagram filter girl. It's , it's, it's a good answer. It's God's handiwork.
Speaker 2But the thing is you don't, you're just so real. Like you talk to people and you, you open up about all the things and so people go, gosh that's so brave. She just like, she just shows up.
Speaker 1Okay, let's, let's tap here for a second. So you talk about inciting emotions from other people as people are scrolling. That is what causes something to go viral. Right. And so when we, when people are posting out content, we're trying to be cognizant like based on a lot of your experience and your interviews from people who are pursuing how to turn their passion into a career. Right. So what do you , what advice do you have for the person who says like I know what I want to do, Kathy , I'm having a hard time charging for it and if I'm not really charging for it, like what do I tell my friends, my family. Like I want to take my passion and make it a career. I am not really charging. What advice do you have? Like where did , where does this stand in regards to the creation in regards to the mess in regards to actually moving it to a D career? What would you say to that person right now? Yeah. I mean, the thing is that most people, I understand why they're confused. It's because we build, we build businesses backwards usually. Like typically people think that you're going to like come up with this idea or this plan. You're going to create the app, you're going to create the service, you're going to come up with the whole idea for the book, right ? The whole thing. And then you're going to put it into the world and like convince people to want it. But it doesn't work that way. Right?
Speaker 2Really much easier than we make it. We make it so much harder than it needs to be. And it goes back to what I said before at the crux of anything successful is radical radical empathy. Business is a relationship. So in any relationship it's about knowing who is in this relationship with you and what they need and what they want. And so this is business one Oh one but what that means is if you're at your day job now or you're not yet in this full-blown dream job and you want to get there, there's a whole runaway first that you can be doing either while you're at your day job that you don't particularly love or even while you're just starting the side hustle because you can start to validate the concepts. You can start thinking, what do I do and who do I do it for? Right? And how do I get in front of a person who might be that kind of person that I would be making this Flon for or her I would be doing this yoga class for , and start to ask them what are their pain points and what do they desire? And then I can start to make up a whole profile of like, okay, I guess my person is just like my friend Mallory. And so she eats Flon , you know, at five 30 in the evening, usually with a cup of coffee. And then I can think, well, where should, would she go? Well, there's these two really cute boutique coffee shops and maybe then I could call them and see if they want to have Flon available for their customers like Mallory who liked this espresso and that might be a neat thing that they serve and maybe two coffee shops. We'll taste it and give me feedback. And if they like it, they can buy several cups for me and I can start making 1000 bucks every couple of weeks and then I can build it from there. So it's actually much easier than we make it because we're trying to get the information without figuring out like you're buying your best friend a Christmas gift. It's like, what does she want? You know? It's like, just find out instead of just buying your Bruce Springsteen tickets, it's like she might be like, Oh, I'm so glad you did that. But the Greek theater, a month later, Elton John was coming and I so would have loved that. Is there any way we can exchange it? Oh no, it's okay. It's like, just ask her. Right? If you go to the grocery store for your best friend or just had a baby, it's like, don't just go, maybe say like I'm going and I want to get you exactly what you want. And she might say, Oh I know it's random, but could you get me a jar of olives? And then you do. And she's so happy because she's , you just brought home the olives just cause you knew she wanted it. And it's just like we can get the answer key from just going to the people. And by the way, what you said to me on my show, which we got to have you back on, but it was over a year and a half ago and you said, Kathy , just just try to serve three people. Like don't try to serve 3000 just pick those three humans that you love, that you know you can show up for. And then from there you'll serve other people who are just like those three people. So much easier than trying to be everything to everyone in this scene . It sounds like I've heard it before and whatever it is actually easier than you think. The thing is, people just don't take action on it. You're just going to sit here and think it, think about it, and think about it as opposed to like what would happen if you actually went right now and spoke to a couple of people who could be that audience person. Oh my gosh. Like a lot of momentum might come. And then what if you could make the offer for just a few people, it probably would start to just snowball.
Speaker 1Okay, so this is so freeing. So number one, we have a permission slip to be courageous for mediocrity, right? We also understand that the opposite of depression isn't happiness, it's purpose. And what we just walked through right now is the ability to dismantle whatever story people have been telling themselves about how difficult it is to do their side hustle. And Kathy's just saying, listen, ask people for what they want. Start small. And that will lead to the pathway. So speaking of pathways, your book, which is incredible, don't keep your day job, how to turn your passion into career. A I you guys, I mean like I'm just telling you like I was, I'm a smitten and kitten, I just love what this is. So I want to give people a sneak peek because you say the thing you've always wanted to do can be a reality. Now one thing that the book outlines, which I thought was really smart, it outlines four different types of creative work. So one of the reasons people don't start their own business or build their own dream job is because they don't say they don't see the potential path, which is why I just asked that question. Like what, what advice do you have in your , like the path will come, but hold on before I get there. Um, you also said there are so many ways to actually make those things happen and come alive. Explain to me the four types of creatives, cause this right here is just
Speaker 2Monday. Oh my God, I love you. Yeah. I really think that this is so important because I do believe that we will reach for the highest branch we can see and a lot of times there's just not a lot modeled for you. Like maybe you lived on this street where the one creative type of person who lived at the end of the block worked at an ad agency. So you think, Oh, I'm going to grow up and I'll work at an ad agency and do some kind of art direction. Even though you're a Potter, you just never saw anyone do anything with ceramics. Right. That was like the closest you could see. And that happens to so many people. They'll see what's modeled. And a lot of people, by the way, don't even get that far. What they hear is no, you save what you love for retirement and Sunday afternoon after church and meanwhile you go to work for your dad or you're good at math, get a CPA degree or whatever it is, and you're just like, I don't get it. I , I got good grades. I went to college, I graduated. Why am I so miserable? It's because you didn't necessarily see what's possible. And so you couldn't take action towards that because you couldn't even see a path. Right. So what are the four ways? Well, what I've found out after interviewing Bobby Brown, Mandy Moore, Howard Schultz from Starbucks, Brian Grazer, Colby, Cal ACE , Barbara Corcoran, Jasmine star, all of these people, I was like, wow. I like looked back at it after like a year or so. And I thought, gosh, every one of these people falls into one of these four categories. I thought this is so cool. And at first I didn't even realize how cool it wasn't until I started telling a few friends like, you like these like biz bestie girls. And they'd be like, cath , what was that? That's, I never heard that before. So what it is four ways maker. So the maker, creator type, teacher type, curator, type investigator type. Let me walk you through it. So the maker creator person, you know what that person is? That's the person who's like, no, my jam is like, I'm going to take the pictures. And Jasmine, you know, tons of people like that who are like, no, that's where I stopped . Like I just want to take pictures all day. And you were there at one point. So some people just want to take pictures or I used to just write music and I was like thinking at one point that was like it for me. Writing music and some people want to write right , I don't know a play and other people want to make pottery and all of that. So the creator baking, that kind of thing. Okay. That one's pretty straight forward . The second one also pretty straightforward is the teacher. Some people think to themselves, I love making bread, but God, I once led this workshop I was and I taught people how to make sourdough bread. It was so fun. Like I love teaching people how to make sourdough bread. I just felt so lit up. One of your best friends, Amy Porterfield, like she's such a teacher, like she's so good at teaching it, breaking it down like she's just so good at it. Certain people are really meant to teach. And it could be a lot of things like you don't necessarily have to teach a maker how to make something, right. You don't have to teach guitar. You could teach productivity, right? Like you could teach organizing, like you could teach concepts and stuff like that. So that's the second thing. The third thing is super cool, which is being a curator and people say, what's that? And this is what's really interesting is that we live in a time where what we're seeing is that people are spending money on experiences more so than even products because we live in a time where loneliness is greater than it's ever been. Depression rates, so sad suicide rates, it's, it's really, really, really awfully sad. And as a result, people feel lonely and they want to come together and they want meaningful connection. And so if you can gather people together, so being a curator, like you could put together an evening that's like a poetry slam. You know, maybe you love poetry and you're not quite the one who wants to get up and do it, but you want to bring people together. Or maybe you're a foodie and you love artisan chocolate and like hand small batched like peanut butter. And so you create some kind of like online shop where what you do since you're not the one making it, but you'd have such good taste in food is like you visit different like places Portland, Oregon and New Hampshire and you get to talk to these people who have their own butter farm and you, you, you get to like, you know, shine a light on it and you curate a little shop. So being a curator could be curating all different kinds of things, whether it's a shop, whether it's an event. So fun. I have a friend who makes 20 grand a month. I'm not joking you. She has a storytelling evening, which started in her living room and then grew to a theater that seats like 400 people and people pay 25 bucks a night and now they do it a few nights a week. And all she does is curate an event where people tell their stories, obsessed, obsessed with it, and it's freaking ridiculously amazing. Okay, so that's being a curator. And the third thing is, or sorry, the , and the fourth thing is being an investigator and what's an investigator? This is so cool. It's like you could just talk about something you could want to investigate. Happiness. You know, Gretchen Ruben was the kind of person who, she wasn't even a PhD in happiness. She was actually an unhappy attorney who thought I want to be happier. So she went on a quest to find more happiness and she took people along with her who also wanted that in their life and she investigated happiness. She was like, well, I'm a good researcher, let me research happiness. And so she became synonymous with her whole journey of investigating that topic. You could investigate that by a book, like she's had several or you could have a podcast on that or you could have a blog. So that is amazing that we live in a time where like you could get paid to just talk about the things you love. It could be anything from parenting to baseball, to photography, to art, to women's stuff. I mean it's pretty amazing. And so all four of those categories are, I'm telling you legit ways to make a seven figure business or a beautiful six figure business and to find tremendous meaning. It's just about figuring out which one is really in your zone of genius.
Speaker 1Okay. So gosh, okay, so anybody who's listening, you can pick your jaws up off the floor because this queen has it going on. Cause so when she shows up and she says like, Hey, how to turn your passion into a career, it's not fluff. So let's just break this down. One of the examples that I had an experience with Kathy is, and it made it just crystal clear for me of her four categories. You have a maker, right? And so if I was baking bread, I would be baking the bread. And then you have the teacher. Now let's just say I wanted to teach others how to bake the bread. Now if I was a curator, I can have my own artists and bread store and bring in multiple different types of breads and people walk in and say, this bread is great for this and this bread is great for that. Or I could be the investigator and I know bread. I traveled to Paris, I travel to Denver and I traveled to Shanghai to experience bread. And I bring people on by way of content. So what Kathy just said is, yo, pick bread, the Smurfs pottery business. And once you say this is the thing, I'm so passionate, and she says instead of being overwhelmed by you could do, what do you think initially one of these four categories would be a great place to start. And then you go deep in that category and she's giving you a pathway to say, Hey, your passion and your power play can turn into profitability. That's it.
Speaker 2Yeah , that's it. And what I love is, first of all, you did your homework. You totally read it. So you don't really, you're exceptional at this because I've been on many, many podcasts and this is, I can tell you're the most prepared. So I'm so
Speaker 1listen, listen, listen. You do not play tennis with Venus and Serena Williams and you show up in kids. You know, it's like you've got to get a nice Rakhi . You got to wear the outfit. Like if I would've played the U S over , I got to play like I'm the us open here at my community league. Okay.
Speaker 2You're so adorable. Um, what I thought was one of the coolest things I've ever heard is this word eeky guy. I'm sure Jasmine, you know this word, right? No. Oh, great. I love that. I can share something with you that you don't know. There's a word called eeky guy. It's a Japanese word, and it's the culmination of three things. It's what you love, what you're good at, and what the world needs. See, sometimes we do something that we're good at, but we don't love it. Sometimes your parents have been like, you're so good at math, just do that. And you're like, okay, I don't love it, but all right. Or sometimes you do that, the world needs, but you don't feel like you're really good at it. You're just doing the thing because like there was a need for it. Somebody needed someone to be sitting here and then now you're sitting in this thing and you're like, is this even my zone of confidence ? Am I even meant to do this? So it's really important that we find where those three things intersect. You know, there've been times in my life, Jasmine, where like I was kicking a door down, I was being it down and it would just wouldn't, it would just wouldn't open. And it's because it wasn't my work. You know, at one point I got a record deal. I was signed to Interscope, I was sitting with lady Gaga, no joke, she was recording paparazzi. I had just gotten signed by nurse scope and they're like, yeah, what do you want from Starbucks? And I was like, Holy crap. Like I totally made it. And then I was dropped from the label five months later and I tried to get another deal. And I remember sitting with Craig Calman who was head of Atlantic records and I was trying to get my second record deal and it was like an almost, and we couldn't quite make it happen. And I was really crushed because I thought that was my job in this world and it wasn't. And I think that if we're willing to let go and have some humility around what we think it is, sometimes the plan is so much greater. Sometimes the dreams are so much bigger and so we can kind of just trust the flow. Like where is it flowing? Where's the yes coming from? And so I want you to think about like in your life, if you're listening, like what's the thing that people would say like they go to you for and where's the intersection of what people come to you for that you love doing. And so if there's something you love doing and then there's a need for that thing and you are good at it, chances are that's your thing. That's your work. And instead of feeling sad that you're not lady Gaga, which who wouldn't be sad, she's awesome. But no, in all seriousness, it's like I have three beautiful kids. You know, I went through nine rounds of fertility treatment, which means I really wanted to be a mom, you know, to go through so many miscarriages and all these IVF cycles. I don't know if I would get to do this. I don't know if I'd get to be running a seven figure business and like picking my kids up at three 30 and so I think God knew better than me, like where I could actually serve and like what I could do to get to do my work. And so I think sometimes we have to look at, you know, where, where is it that I can show up in the world and do something that the world needs from me and it, and is it the thing that I also love and I don't know that everyone's always thinking about those three pieces. I think sometimes we're either just thinking about what people, what do people want from me? Okay, I'll do it. Or what do I love? But it really is about service like you're put here to serve. And so I think it's a matter of like spending a little bit of time processing some of that. I just feel like that was the perfect bow on this absolutely gorgeous metallic gift that you have been given us. One thing that I feel like when you say you're something you're good at, I feel like I'm at synthesizing.
Speaker 1I have never been the, I've never been the girl come up with like these big ideas or groundbreaking theology or perspectives. But when I can do is take a really complex idea and like distill it and so Kevvy you have given us number one, a permission slip to be courageous, being mediocre. And then that is to understand like what our purpose is because our purpose, regardless of how daunting it is to create a career around something you're passionate about, is that when you stand in your purpose, everything else melts away. And once you do that, you can then start identifying of the four things, four types of categories to be creative and to possibly transition away from my day job into something I'm passionate about is to choose those four things. And then once you feel like, Hey, I'm a really great teacher, or I'm a really gay curator, then you have to ask yourself, what am I good at?
Speaker 2Run that by me again. What are you good at? What do you love and what does the world need
Speaker 1a man ? And I feel like in this 30 minute conversation you've given somebody the passport and I feel like you have done everything you can and I have done everything I can. So we're handing people a passport and we're saying just walk through the gate. We can't tell you what's on the other side of the country of milk and honey, but we're going to give you the passport. And so if you're listening right now, the greatest gift that you could do is just walk through the gate. Just give it to yourself. You owe it to us. You are to the university, owe it to God, your to yourself . Just just take a few steps, figure out what that thing is and when you do and when you see what's on the other side, I want you to connect with Kathy . We want you to send her a DM. I just feel so thankful that she came on this call. And you , you are empowering. You give people like a wake up call. Like you're just like, what are you doing? Like you're here. Go and do it. So your book is a gift. You are a gift. Your podcast is a gift. And you want to know what lady
Speaker 2Gaga, sorry. Buba we ended up on the good side.
Speaker 1Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of them . Oh , okay. So you guys check out her book on Amazon or we're , all books are sold. Don't keep your day job. How to turn your passion into your career. And Kathy , how can they find you on
Speaker 2online? Online. So, first of all, we actually spent the entire summer, I worked with a psychologist and I worked with my team on creating a quiz to help you figure out which one of those four things you are. It's pretty fun. It's a Cathy heller.com and I love, I love taking it and I love helping people and they're like, yes. So that's one thing. How the hell are.com but then I do love hanging out on Instagram. So I'm also at Cathy Heller. But yeah, listen to the podcast. It's free. I mean, Jasmine is incredible. Keep doing this stuff. You know, I feel like people can give you incredible strategy and you have it, you know it. I think it's just about you gotta turn on that light. You know, you got to either believe in yourself or you don't and charge your batteries. Just like you charge your iPhone, you know, listen to Jasmine every morning, get yourself pumped up, rip it open. You will get so much more done in a state of energy like that than anything else. And then you'll actually apply some of what it is that we talked about here because it's your birthright. You deserve to have that life is meant for you.
Speaker 1Oh , we'll end it there, queen. You are so good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, wow. Am I right? I feel like I don't have any other words than just, wow. What I loved about this interview is that every time I asked Kathy a question, she went even deeper and got to the root of the question like I asked her how to make your mess into your message and then she immediately goes into why we're afraid of the mess in the first place. Oh wait . She brought us to let church. She's just so grounding and I could seriously talk to her all day. I hope you go and get Kathy's book. Don't keep your day job, and if you loved this episode, well, share some love with us on social media. We would love to connect with you at Kevin Heller and at Jasmine star. We'd love to hear your take on the conversation and connect with you on Instagram. Thank you. And as always, I appreciate you tuning into the Jasmine star show. I hope you have a wonderful week and I will chat with you on a future episode of the podcast soon.
Speaker 3[inaudible] .