Speaker 1

[inaudible]

Speaker 2

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Jasmine star show. My name is Tammy, the social curator creative director, and I'm here today to introduce Jasmine's conversation with Rick Mulready in our head of strategy and acquisition Jade hall. In this episode, Jasmine and Jade grill , Rick, who is the King of paid traffic on how we can improve our ad strategy for social curator. They cover everything under the sun when it comes to acquiring and converting leads from Facebook ads. This conversation is a little high level, but if you have ever wanted a behind the scenes, look at a multimillion dollar businesses ad strategy, you are in for a treat. So let's listen in on Jasmine , Rick and Jay's conversation on social curators , ad strategy

Speaker 3

friends. I am so excited. I cannot have more of a privilege and honor to introduce not just a brilliant mind and what I call a Facebook, Instagram savant. I should just say paid traffic savant. I'm lucky that this guy even considers me a friend, but I have to back up, you know, that when I invite people on the podcast, I really want a personal connection because they want the podcast not to feel like a bunch of talking heads, but like, you're just joining us for coffee, a drink, or perhaps a conversation over lunch. Now I have to say that I first encountered our guests today in 2016, and I am sitting in a hotel bedroom with a group of other really great, amazing digital marketers and business people. And I don't know the language that they're speaking. I was plopped into a room where everybody was speaking business Japanese, and I'm just like aura got toe . Uh , no speaking English here. Okay . So it was very difficult. It was very difficult. And I think, I don't know I could be wrong, but I looked like a little lost orphan ambitious guy . He goes out of his way and he's like, Hey, you come sit at the cool kids table. I sit in the car. I'll never forget. I'll never forget. I'm sitting in an Uber with Rick Mulready and his lovely wife, Amy and Rick is asking me very nice questions. And he's not betraying the fact that he is the top 1% of the 1% when it comes to paid traffic and Rick in 2016 and 1718, and brings us to today is somebody that I turn to. When I have questions about how to strategically use paid advertisement for my business. Now, Rick was the person who really gave a lot of insight into my business in 2016. I'm so excited that he is now coming back to the first time on the podcast. I've been on his podcast and we're going to grill him today. And when I say where I should also let you know that our launch manager and head of strategy and acquisition, Jade hall is on the podcast today too. So before I get to Jade, Rick homey ,

Speaker 4

welcome. I don't even, I don't know if I can say anything after that kind of introduction. Thank you. I appreciate that. I remember that events so well, you were, you were doing a hot seat. You were up in front of the, in front of the group. You had your, you had like amazingly nice slides up on the TV, but you were like, what's a webinar. Just like, why is she in the room? I mean, isn't it amazing? Like that was only four years ago gets you now. I mean, that's so Testament to what, what you guys have done. Like

Speaker 3

it's not bad for a girl from the ghetto. That's an , I'm going to say. Um, but you know, I really have to give credit to her credits . Do I always, my biggest ambition is to be the dumbest person in the room. And when there's kindness in the room, in addition to brilliance , that's the right place for me. So , um, in the same theme of being the dumbest person in the room, I always want to say, I want to be the dumbest person on my team. So when I met and asked Jade hall to join the team, I was like, good. I'm way dumber than this girl. So I am bringing on the two of the most smartest people. I know. And so this is going to be a slight departure from what we normally do in the podcast, in the podcast, we do information and value that applies to a lot of people, but deal with me because I want to be a little selfish. I want to be selfish and they really want to be a hundred percent open because I think that the value is going to come from giving a real , real, real, honest inside, look into a recent launch of ours. I want to be open with our numbers. I want to be talking about cost per leads and earning per lead. And I'm going to use this from a selfish perspective, understanding that other people can get a lot of insights along the way now, after our launch, which I'm just going to say was one of our biggest launches ever. And we're so freaking proud and super stoked. I came back to Rick and I was like, Rick Jadah is asking me really difficult questions about our ads and I don't have answers. So can we make this conversation public to which you respond? Yes. And then you said, Jasmine, let's just like lay the framework of the seven touch points that actually a person needs to convert from a follower into a customer. So what do you think would be best, Rick? Should we incorporate the seven as we talk? Should we let framework the seven? And then we get into our examples. You professor Mulready where your , where are your students? I

Speaker 4

think maybe I'm just kind of starting with like the , the , the launch numbers and then the questions that Jade brought up, which are great questions, because you know, the number that gets thrown around is seven, but there's a lot of literature out there. That's like somewhere between seven and 20 touch , but most often the number that gets, that gets sort of centered on if you will is , is seven. And just to clarify for one, like touch points , meaning like, it's not like somebody becomes a lead, they join your email list and then like they're opening their credit card or they're giving you the credit card and, you know, take my money. It takes that, you know, we , we, we throw around like the, what I call it , the KLT factor that know like, and trust. Like you have to build that relationship with somebody. You know, I've had people who joined my accelerator program for the first time, for example, who were like, I've been listening to your podcast now for four years, but it's taken them that long. Meaning like each time they do, they take an action. If you will, in my business, meaning they find the podcast, they listen to some episodes. Maybe they then subscribe. Maybe they join my email list. Maybe they follow me on Instagram. Like these are all touches before they even make a decision to, you know , purchase something. And so with social curator, it's the exact same thing. It's the same thing for everybody. It just, there's a journey involved and it's a customer journey. And the thing of it is that's going to look different for every business. But it's understanding that there is a customer journey and it's like, you know what? Just because somebody joined our email list or, or , or sign up for a launch, doesn't mean they're going to purchase. What happens a lot of times is that maybe we pay for traffic and, you know, we get, you know , a lead for whatever or whatever, paying for lead. You're going to break those numbers down today, but Oh, I paid such and such for lead, but yet these people didn't buy, Oh, I failed. It's a failure. Well, no, it's there now in your world. Now they got to experience you during this launch and get amazing value in content. And now maybe these subscribe to your podcast here. Now they, you know, maybe they joined you on Instagram and they're watching your lives and all that stuff. And maybe they purchase from you six, eight, 10. I don't know whatever a year from now. But they still like , that's the journey that they had to go through in order to make that decision.

Speaker 3

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the church of Rick Mulready, he's already preaching. He's preaching somebody, give him a sweat rag, somebody. So wipe this man's brow tissue right down . Okay. So on that note, I am going to open the floor to Jade . Jade is gonna like, well, first day, do you want to introduce yourself? Do you want to say, hi, I'm Jason on the podcast? Yeah. It's baptism by fire. Yes. This is my big podcast debut period. I've never been on a podcast. So this is it for me. Awesome. I should also note that Jade was the person who spearheaded the podcast launched . So she does a lot of things in the business. So full circle moment. I'm just taking a moment of appreciation. Thank you. Uh , let's get into, let's get into this let's grill, Rick Mulready. Okay. So I think one of the biggest questions that came up for us, the last launch was around attribution

Speaker 5

for Facebook ads. And what we were finding was that it seems like there were so many more , um, attributions that were attributed to Facebook ads that we were seeing on our end. So on our end , um, I think we're probably looking at the strictest form of tracking. And that is, we see who opted in on one of the designated landing pages were Facebook ads. They were tagged that way. And then did they buy , um, and the numbers that the Facebook ads team was showing us and reporting looked very different than ours. So I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit more about attribution,

Speaker 4

first of all, the fact that you guys were even thinking about this is like very few businesses look at this. So number one, kudos to you guys for even looking at this stuff. So as most , um, how do I want to say this as most channels do its last attribution or last touch point ? Meaning like, if let's just say they came into your world via they , they, they joined your email list from Instagram. Let's just say, and there was a year ago. Um, well technically the reason that they're there in your world is because of Instagram, but yet if they click on a Facebook ad to join the launch and they purchase Facebook is going to take that credit. If you will, for that purchase. It's, you know, it's the, it's the last touch. If you will, when it's , this is the million dollar question in all of advertising, right? If you're driving down the road, you see a billboard and it's for whatever, and then you see something on TV and you see it again, but then you're online and you like, Oh, I want to Google this and you purchase, let's just say via Google. Well, Google is going to take that attribution, like take credit if you will, for the purchase. When in reality, did it really come from Google or did it come from that initial viewing the billboard that you saw to kind of get the ball rolling in your mind if you will. And so Facebook is going to be that last touch attribution. Now, the way that Facebook does it with attribution, they look at it as a view attribution and a click attribution, meaning like maybe you saw the ad, then you're on Instagram, Jasmine's sharing a link or whatever in a live or a story or something. And then that person goes there and if they purchase, and that was the last thing that, that , that person did that . Or according to Facebook, Facebook is going to take quote unquote credit for that. So the other, the other side of the view attribution is the click attribution. Meaning like, all right , this person clicked on the ad and ended up purchasing. Um, and that's what I like to look at. And Facebook goes up to eight days, the we'll call it the stereotypical. So I've been in the online advertising space for 20 years. Now. It's weird for me to say, it's always been 30 days, meaning like the , the attribution window, if you will, is 30 days. So if something happens within 30 days after that person clicks that however they clicked gets, it gets the attribution. Like they take credit for the action of that person that they took, like, like a purchase. For example, Facebook is up to 28 days. That's what I like to look at. So like, I don't really care necessarily if somebody saw the ad and then, you know, cause I'm running because I'm paying like I'm running ads, I'm running, I'm running Facebook and Instagram ads. I want to know who saw the ad, clicked on it and then took an action. And then of those people, how many purchased? And so Jay , that's probably the reason why you're seeing that discrepancy is because you may not have changed the attribution window, number one inside of Facebook's ads manager, which you can do, you can customize , um , that window that you see, it defaults to one day view 28 day click. I think it is. And you can remove the one day view part and change it to whatever you'd like you can do. I think it's like set one seven and 28. I like to keep it at 28 day click that way. I'm looking at just, I want to know how many people click the ad registered and ended up purchasing. Now again, the limitation there is, let's just say you do your, when was that? Jasmine in may 20 2020, if somebody joins that launch in may, doesn't join, but then join social curator the next time that's that credit is not going to be seen in spite of ads manager, because it's going to be beyond the 28 day window. Frustrating. But that's just the reality of what we're looking at. Does that help Jade?

Speaker 5

Yeah, I think that we were seeing a lot of , um, well, a lot of sales attributed to Facebook and yet on our end we were seeing that so many of our sales , um, when we looked at who had registered for the webinar, they came and registered through one of Jasmine's organic sources and then later paid and, you know , purchased and yet Facebook was still attributing that to them. Yeah. And so we were kind of trying to figure out what the discrepancy was there and really understand why that was happening. So I think that, I think you explained it

Speaker 4

also understanding too, that there's always going to be a discrepancy between , between numbers always. Um, you know, when I was in the corporate world, it used to be in the contract that we signed it . I want to say it was like, I mean, this is years ago, I'm dating myself, but it was like 20% meaning discrepancy, like plus or minus 20%. And that was like, Oh , that was a given. It's a , I don't. I mean, I don't, I don't, I honestly don't know what the average is with Facebook, but that's one question I get all the time is like, well, I'm seeing one number in Google analytics. I'm seeing one number in Facebook and I'm seeing this in my email CRM. And like, what number do I believe? So just understanding number one, that there's always going to be a discrepancy and you know, if it's fairly close, okay. I would just kind of accept it. But if there's a huge discrepancy, then we start looking at trying to troubleshoot like, Oh, what's going on there? My guess is the attribution window that you were looking at may have included the view option, which again, if even though they saw, they came in via one of Jasmine's organic posts, maybe they saw, you know, on, they saw the post on Facebook or saw a paid ad on Facebook and then ended up purchasing. And if it was the last thing that they saw , um, whether it's on Instagram, by the way, or Facebook they'll take the credit if you will.

Speaker 5

Well, and we saw a difference just in registrant's to not even , um, you know, excluding people who purchased. Um, I think we had around a 6,000 person difference between what Facebook was showing , um, registered because they saw an ad versus what we showed as how, how many registrants were coming through on a Facebook landing page. And so, yeah, well, we should also, I'm sorry, Jay , just for clarification, maybe you can tell Rick how many registrants we had total cause 6,000 out of 8,000 is a lot 6,000 out of what? Jade 35,000 total registrants, and then seventh around 17 five came from Facebook ads is what we tracked. And I think they were showing around , uh , 24,022 or 24.

Speaker 4

So it , it that still may come down to the attribution window or the attribution and how it was set up. So again, the whole view versus click does play into account for that as well. Um, and that's why a lot, cause it defaults to view and click, right? So if somebody is, is not changing that attribution and they're looking at the numbers, they're going to be a little bit inflated numbers because of Facebook is quote unquote taking credit for the view of it. When in fact maybe they're seeing the link in one of Jasmine's organic Instagram posts and they're , and they're signing up over there. Yeah. So you're in that 20%, but still I think that's, I think that's too high. Meaning like it shouldn't, I don't think it should be that high, but my gut is telling me that it's that the attribution window and that tribulation view I should say is , is , is what's causing that discrepancy.

Speaker 5

Yeah. And I do know when we kind of tried to dig deeper and figure some of where that was coming from about 2000 leads, I think were a result of , um, they were reported as view through, and then we had about 4,000 different , um, that we were trying to figure out. And I think when we changed it and restricted it to one day click , it became much closer to what we were looking at, which I know our ads team kind of mentioned, like that's the strictest form of, of reporting for it. And so I guess my next question would be why, why , what would be the downfall of making sure we're always using the strictest form of reporting? Why would we want to have leeway on our end? I guess?

Speaker 4

Well, it , it brings in the question it's , it's the discussion of what we're taught . We kind of what , what I started out with, it's just like, there is because there's value right in , someone's seeing the ad and then taking an action off of the platform in which they saw it, like going back to like the whole billboard thing, like pricing on a billboard, right? It's like they take the average, the traffic and stuff like that. It's the same kind of thing because there's value there. But it's very hard to say, Oh, this person, this person took the action because they saw that billboard. And it's the same kind of thing. That's probably what the ads person, the ads, you know, they're, they're saying, I think what they're saying without putting words in their mouth is that there's value, right. To seeing somebody seeing Jasmine in the video or in the ad having a call to action that maybe they don't take that action right. From the ad. But then they're like, Oh, I'm either I either want to follow Jasmine or they're already following Jasmine , which is probably more like it, that then they take the action over on Instagram. But the ad that the ad that they saw either on Facebook or on Instagram is, is playing a big part in them taking that action. Right . I have a feeling that that's what the, the ads person is where that the angle that they're coming from this they're , they're saying there's value in that. But I personally do like the quote unquote stricter thing. Like I want to know who saw my ad, who clicked on it and took the action. I want them to take,

Speaker 3

I mean, just the spoken, like a true business person is just like, we want to use this strictness . Like, why are you trying to take credit? Like we out here, I'm out on Instagram, I'm out on Facebook, I'm out on YouTube every day producing content. And it's like the one time that the one video is shown in the middle of a launch attribution is denoted. You know, I'm going to take that little, like that rubs me the wrong way. However, it doesn't take away from the fact that there truly is value in just exposure during an open cart period. So there is that.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it goes to, and I know we're going to be talking about retargeting and stuff like that, but you know, what's come, what's become even, and I know you don't , you do an amazing job about this with this is like, there's so much value in just paying for views on for videos, for example, and then building those engagement audiences be able to retarget because you're building that further relationship. They're like, Oh my God, this Jasmine person is, there's amazing. So knowledgeable and all this stuff like I want to be in her world. I want to, I want to follow her. I want to purchase like, there's a ton of value in that. But at the top of the funnel, there from an awareness quote unquote standpoint, you're not necessarily seeing a clear ROI to that, but you're building that top of funnel so that you can build those audiences to get them further down your customer journey, if you will, and through your, through your sales funnel, to a purchase,

Speaker 3

okay, I'm going to turn this over to Jayden a second, but I want to take a time out. And as a, like , as a coach in this podcast, what I want to actually clearly denote is break down a big concept that Rick just kind of grazed over, but I want to take a pause here because he's the person who actually walked me through what this concept was. You can create a video and then you can look at the analytics from that video and determine how many people saw 1%, 10%, 40%, whatever percentage you denote. And let's just say, you say, I want to post another video, but I want to make sure that the people who saw the first video at least 40%, we'll see the second video. So this is called a layered ad strategy. So as we're going into a launch, I am producing videos. And what I'm doing is creating audience of viewers so that when I put out a video, inviting people to the webinar, I am retargeting people who have already previously demonstrated that they will watch at least half of an educational video. I put out what we are basically doing with our ads is we're sure betting our ads by creating organic content. That's interesting, valuable, and beneficial. And if somebody has expressed, so you're saying, Jasmine , how do they express? They express by their view time, if somebody is watching two, three, four minutes of a video, that's benefit to them, there's a higher likelihood of them watching a video, inviting them to an elongated educational webinar . That was what we just spoke about. That was what Rick was referring to. And that's what we heavily lean on when it comes to creating organic content and then layering an ad strategy on top of that.

Speaker 4

And that's what you do amazingly well. And that's really what, you know, I get a lot of questions about like, well, how has that, how that's changed over the past year or so this, you know, this strategy and this isn't new, it's been around for a while , but I think it's never been more important to do exactly what you were just saying, Jasmine . And when, if, if everyone is, if people are, who are listening, like do launches and stuff like that, this is what you should be doing in between the launches of building these audiences and getting your content in front of people so that when you do your launches, you've got these amazing warmed up audiences. If you will, who have been watching your content. And just like Jasmine just said, let's just say your video is whatever three minutes long. And someone watches a minute and a half of that video that is an engaged person because they a minute and a half is a long time on social media to be, to be consuming a piece of content like that. They're very likely to take the next action that you want them to take, whether it's signing up for, you know , a training or whatever it is because they've consumed that content. Just like Jasmine said, they've engaged with it for a certain period of time based on how long the video is. It's an amazing strategy. And by the way, I think we've talked about this Jasmine, when, if you were launching meaning like, are you doing a couple launches a year? For example, I don't recommend just ramping up your launch or just ramping up your ads for launches. You should be running your ads all the time from this strategy that we're talking about here. Not only is it good practice to build up those audiences and stuff like that, but Facebook's algorithm that technology, that elusive technology, everyone tries to understand that's running in the background of your, of your ads is going to reward you because you're running ads on a consistent basis. It's not like a rollercoaster where it's like, Oh, launch time, let's ramp up our ads. And then we're going to wrap them back down. Facebook says, Oh, this business over here, they don't know like, Oh, this is Jason's business. But they like this business over here is constantly spending. And it's not like you have to spend a thousand dollars a day. This is just like consistency in your strategy. And you will, you will be rewarded for it when you do , um , your launches. Yes. And amen.

Speaker 5

Okay. Jade mix . Okay. So I have one thing, one additional thing I want to get cleared up before I ask you my big question.

Speaker 4

Well , it wasn't the big question before.

Speaker 5

No, it's not actually. Um, okay. So when we broke down the numbers on our end, looking at our strictest form of tracking, what I found was that we had about 23% of our sales that I'm going to call unattributed. I couldn't see where they registered, where they came from, but they bought. And so I'm expecting to hear that that's probably sort of normal to another, like, discrepancy that you just see in advertising, but what could be the cause of that? What would make for like 23% of our sales to , um, not be showing as entering into our funnel, like from a lead page?

Speaker 4

It's that , that is quite a, that's quite a bit of a discrepancy there. You know, we have had that in the past ourselves where we're like, we have no idea where this, where these people, like, where they came from. Like , we can't attribute to the sales, just like, you're just saying, and I'm sure you guys have done the research too . Like we talk to, you know, the platforms, meaning like our email CRM or , um, you know, whatever Stripe or whatever platforms that we're using in the whole process, like landing pages and all that. And it seems like every, every tool blames the other tool. Right. It's like, it's not us it's so it's, it's them. Right. And it's like, okay, but I'm in circles here. And I that's what my hypothesis is, based on what we've seen is that there's a breakdown between systems talking to one another, like it's a maddening answer, right. Because it's like, well, we don't really know exactly what it is that's causing it, but there is a normalcy to it. Meaning like, I don't really know where these people, like where they came from specifically. There's always going to be that discrepancy. I do think that like 23% of your overall, like, I think that's a little bit high. Um, that's just kinda my feedback on it. I know that's not a great answer, but

Speaker 5

how much of it could be due to just an email address being different. Like you have a Facebook account that's with one email address and then you end up signing up with another email address. Does that matter? Or is it really tracking like the IP that

Speaker 4

a hundred percent and someone could clear cookies? Like there's , there are factors there that people, you know, like they signed up with one, you know, they signed up originally with one email address and then they buy with another email address and you're like, then, like the systems, the systems aren't going to read that somebody clears their cookies. Maybe they've been pixeled or something like that. They cured the cookies. And then, you know, so there are factors like that, that absolutely attribute to it. For sure.

Speaker 3

I have a question. Can I insert Jade real quick before you asked the big question? Because I know Rick is getting nervous. So we had 23% unattributed now I am wildly active on social during this time. And I am pointing people to our join page. When I look at 23%, do I think that I, an org strictly organic going live every day and sending people to the landing page? Do I think I should claim all 23%? No. Do I think I should proclaim double digits for that? Like heck yes, I totally do. So I tried to be as fair as possible because when we were going through ads, ads took the 23% and attributed and attributed to ads and I'm like, skirt, your girl did not show up every single day on two platforms, multiple times a day to be like, I didn't get the 23%, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, let's be fair. Fair is a high value. And I wanted to split it 13, 13, I would attribute an additional 13%. Yeah. Two ads. And then the 13% to organic , since it wasn't attributed. Does that seem like, I mean, just do it to me straight.

Speaker 4

I think that's a fair, fair hypothesis on the attribution there because you are showing up so much. I think that's fair. And it's , yeah. It's not like all 23% came from that, but from your, from your actions and stuff like that. But I would be very surprised if it were not that high because you show up so well, and you're so often on, they're like, yeah, you're moving the needle. I think what would help the conversation too, because this isn't more advanced conversation. I think JD would be helpful for you to kind of share how you are tracking stuff. Like, so like if Jasmine's on Instagram doing the story or something like, how is she, is there a specific link that she's sending to ? I think that would help people understand, like how are you trying to track the different attributions and where people are registering from and eventually buying from?

Speaker 5

Sure. Um, so everywhere that Jasmine is going to promote the launch herself or , um, Facebook ads promoting the launch, they each get their own landing page and they each get their own vanity URL for that landing page. And then on the landing page, we have an integration set up with our email marketing system, which we use infusion soft to tag those people a specific way. If they register say they're coming from Facebook ads, they get a Facebook ads tag. So I know they've registered for this time. Um, you know, depending on what time they're signing up for a webinar and it came from Facebook ads, and then I can track that and I can see did how many of those people with that tag also purchased. Um, so that's how we're tracking on our end for , um, all of the lead sources.

Speaker 4

Gotcha. Yeah. So two things on that, just for people to understand as well. Like if for whatever reason someone's registering from an ad on the landing page. And then, you know, obviously the, the conversion is usually usually on, on the load of the thank you page, if for whatever reason they end up visiting that page, whatever, if it loads a couple of times, that's the pixel is going to count that. So that will cause a discrepancy, even though it's one person there and I'm not here to throw tools under the bus, but I've had, we no longer use infusion soft. And when we're using infusion soft, we did have a lot of attribution challenges. We'll call them that were never solved, that were never solved. I'm just throw that out there. Infusionsoft business sponsor Jasmine, and they're not under the bus, but I would want to know just from like a quant based, what was the difference that you saw? Like what kind of discrepancies do you think were remedied as a result of changing your CRM? Well, I mean, there's a lot , we had a lot, this could be a whole lot of, we had a lot of, a lot of challenges there, like everything from, from attribution to email delivery, to stuff, going out that when it wasn't supposed to stuff , not going out when it was like, we had all kinds of problems there. So , um, but yeah, from an attribution standpoint, we didn't see the percentages that you're talking about here, but we definitely saw stuff. And like when we reached out, like we never got a good answer as to like what was happening, like why , you know, we , this is what we think it is. Why aren't they showing up as such, which is, you know, a lot of stuff you're talking about here.

Speaker 5

Yeah. And I don't want to completely throw Infusionsoft under the bus because I will be clear when I looked into the numbers and I looked in the backend of zoom, which zoom is what we use to actually conduct the webinar for the launch. You know, the total number of registrants there , um, really matched what I was seeing in infusion soft. And when I break down the number of tags that came from Facebook and the number of tags that have come from an organic source, it really adds up to , to be the total that I was seeing in zoom , um , within like maybe a couple of hundred people, which for 35,000 registered pretty close. So , um, okay. That being said, then my big question is this, we are talking about our next launch and the strategy behind that and just flapping here. Um, so if I am looking at this , the strictest form of tracking, and I can see that the number of people who registered through a Facebook ad and bought that, that total conversion was 3.9%. So I think Facebook ads brought in like 17,500 leads and the total number of sales from, from that, that I see strictest form was about 674. So that's a 3.9% conversion. If I look at that compared to the way that our organic , um, lead sources converted, that was about 8.8%. And so, you know, we're looking at , um, what does the next launch look like? What will the costs of ads be at that time? What will make sense for us? And I'm tossing around this idea of like, why are we, why are we investing so much money into all of these leads that just don't convert, let's go where we know it converts best, put extra, you know, money behind building our list right now. And when we launch, we don't do any lead acquisition that's paid. We only do organic lead acquisition and then do retargeting. Um, and so that's my big question is, is that a bad idea? Is that kind of crazy? Talk to think that we wouldn't do any lead gen that's paid for a big launch for us.

Speaker 4

So I think it's, I think it's important to look at when you're talking about lead generation for the launch. Are we talking cold lead generation? Are we talking a combination of cold and retargeting from previous audiences that you've created? Like we were talking about before from, from video? Um, what are we talking to ? Let's get clarity there first.

Speaker 5

So Jasmine, I have talked about both , um, on one hand, none we would think about doing no lead gen for cold or, or we could go with a strategy of just doing lead gen for warm. Um, I kind of, I don't know why I feel like we could do it without cold or warm, but I'm sure it's,

Speaker 3

hold on. I have to say for people who are on the podcast, I have had my mic muted it and I'm like, Jesus, take the wheel. Cause I just want to jump in. I kind of want Rick to be like done , done, like judge Mulready is sitting in his leg, black robe, and I want him to bang the gavel. I'm trying to learn more first before I do that. Okay. Okay. But it's like to be very clear, it's the fact that like where Jade and I have really gone deep in discussions issues, like it's a matter of fairness. She was like, we've already paid to acquire a lead. Why do we have to pay again to acquire quote unquote lead when we've already have them? So it's not like, you know, cost per lead for us in this last launch, I think was somewhere in the ballpark of $3 and 60 cents, which is pretty freaking incredible. So $3 and 60 cents for cost per lead, but she's like, but we had to pay that in addition to paying a cost per lead. Like normally we would run our opt-ins, we're running something below a dollar 50. So she's just like, it's not $3 and 60 cents. It's $3 and 60 cents in addition to procurement on the front end two, three, four months ago. And that's where she's like, why am I paying again for it?

Speaker 4

Yeah. And it's a great way to look at it. So the first thing I would say, so JD , just, just so just so I can get clear on this past launch, you did both cold traffic and warm traffic retargeting correctly . Yes. And I know that you're like, wait, why am I retargeting people on our email sort of thing? Is that right? Why am I, why am I paying to do that again? So there's a lot of different things that we're not, we're spinning a lot of plates if you will, on this one here. So the first thing is , and I wrote those stats down, as you were talking about. So 4% ad conversion , 17 five leads are those cold leads. Those would be both. Okay. Um, so the way I would look at it and you could break it down even further, it's like, all right , I'll let 17 five. How many of those are cold leads? Because what we want to do there is are you at 674 sales? What does that mean for revenue? Now this is social curator now. So we want to look at what's the average customer value, right? You don't want to look at like, just that first month. So you say, alright , well, my average customer value is X. And then look at that time, 674 . And so that way, that way we can start to calculate what our earnings per lead is and say, Oh, I paid three 60, but my earnings per lead on this person or on a new customer is, are on from this launch is X, right? And so you look at the discrepancy there and say, because without knowing what that number is, I'm guessing it's pretty big. What that, do you know what your average customer value is? Jasmine

Speaker 3

we're in the process of figuring it out, but we know somewhere in the ballpark of $500

Speaker 4

LTV. Yeah. For like, all right , for every customer that, that, that person's worth five sounds kind of weird, like that person's worth $500, but the customer value is $500. But if you're paying $3 and 60 cents for a new lead to come in, but that person is worth 500 bucks to me, even if they don't. And this is where I was going with. This is like, do you guys track how long somebody has been on your email list? For example, before they purchase, the last time we ran those numbers, it was four months. So that's another thing to Jade is like, all right, well, if you took these people in, if you will like new leads coming in in may and they didn't purchase, it doesn't mean it's a waste. Cause they might, they're very likely will, if it takes them four months, if you will, they'll , they're very likely going to join next, the next launch. And so you, yes, they didn't convert this time. You did pay for them to come into your world, quote, unquote, this time, but they are going to convert eventually. And then when they do convert, it's worth $500 to you per person. So that's the way I would start to look at it. And you know, if you could get to a point where all of your launches are no cold traffic, like, I mean, I think that's the ideal, honestly, where you're building up the warm audiences all the time, engaging them, getting, you know, building that relationship with them. And then once you launch, you've just got these huge audiences that are already warmed up. And then yes, you do want to use ads to get back in front of them. Again, going back to the number of touch points , they're more likely to convert. And like you're getting this down to it's all numbers, right? Like we're talking numbers like the business, as we know is just all numbers. Like, alright , this, this customer is worth 500 bucks to me, but I can acquire them for whatever $10 , uh, all day long. Right. And so that's really what it comes down to is like, alright , you know that they're on your list generally for about four months. If they don't purchase right now, it doesn't mean it's a lost lead or I wasted money now I get to nurture them. And they're , they're very likely going to , to become a customer the next next launch.

Speaker 5

Sure. That makes sense. I think I just look at what did we see directly from Facebook ads? And it seems so low as a percentage compared to what we're able to do organically, that it just seems like we should put all of our efforts towards what's really working and what's really converting so much better.

Speaker 4

Yeah. And I think, I think it would be, if you haven't already, it'd be really helpful to break down that 17 five 70,500 leads. All right . How many of those of those 17,500 were cold, meaning just coming into Jasmine's world for the first time registering and then looking at that earning per lead from the cold traffic, because that'll give you some insight into like, Oh, you know what? We paid, whatever $3 50 cents for that lead. But we converted this many people, which is my earnings per lead. And then again, you have that $500 lifetime customer value.

Speaker 3

So I'm paying very close attention to the clock because I know that we are on a limited time crunchier , but Jade has those numbers. So if we can dive into that, because going into our next lunch, we really aim to launch social curator. It's not set in stone, but we really like to launch every about more or less six months. And so what our goal is now is that instead of really having a peak of ad spend before the launch, we had been consistently running ads. But what I want to do is break up. I would like to spend more on the front end for acquisition because our cost per our cost per leads for an opt in right now are low or less than a dollar 50. And if I can double down in summer months, warm them up, send them into a great sequence. And so then retarget them with webinar ads later in the year. I think it would behoove us.

Speaker 4

Yeah, no. So I was gonna say so Jade , that would be a great if you're getting leads on an , on an , um , on a lead magnet for less than a buck 50 now it's like, okay, tracking those people. Number one, how long are they on your email list before they purchase? Well, that's it right there. And like how many of those people are purchasing without bringing them through nurturing them and , and those they're purchasing, just looking at like, cause that might be your better strategy is to get them in at that cost, nurture them and boom, you paid whatever dollar 40 or something like that. Like I'm raising my hand, take that all day long, by the way, like nurture them and then get them to purchase , um , that way. Yeah. Right. I had a thought there too. Um, Oh, I was going to ask you, like , why do you guys think that this launch specifically was your best one yet? I mean, I know your lead costs were super low, but like, can you kind of pinpoint anything or a couple of things that worked super well?

Speaker 3

You know, Rick and Jade, I want Jay to be totally honest it's it was just a numbers game for us. It was just a numbers game. We converted closely to what we normally convert. It was just the fact that we brought in it's about 35,000 leads is bananas. The fact that we had to reach out to zoom and say, we have over 10,000 people registered for the webinar. Do you have a bigger one? And then they said, no, sorry. That's the biggest one. We have the fact that it was just voluminous and an , you know , unfortunately , unfortunately a lot of people had to stay at home. A lot of people were quarantined. So there were more people spending more time online. Our show up rates were better. Our cost per like just everything worked in our favor. And it wasn't like we set a threshold when I saw the, the preliminary cost per lead. And I knew that they were very promising and I knew people were like heightened during COVID to say, I want to have a business from home, the demand. It was like the perfect, perfect, perfect time. And we didn't truncate. I was like, if we can still get our cost per lead for this like, spend like just spend,

Speaker 4

well, I think this is a good lesson for everyone listening. Like we're talking about our business, this is all a numbers game. Everything we're doing is a numbers game. Cause like your , your point of of saying is perfect. As when you said like our conversion rate was roughly the same. We just brought more people in. It's like, okay, cool. And you, I mean, you've been doing this long enough where you can say, all right , well our conversion rate was this, what can we try next time to like bump it up to whatever, because if we bump it up, even 1%, that, that, that, that equals a lot of revenue. Right . And just kind of pulling the triggers there

Speaker 3

a hundred percent. So based on what we know, then it's like, we haven't seen cost per lead that low in a very long time. We don't anticipate them being that low during our next launch. There's a lot of factors at play is like, if we decide to launch towards the end of 2020, we know there's a presidential campaign. During those times, traditionally costs, ads are so much higher, so it will be definitely higher. And I don't really want to go after cold leads during a con kind of like a weird time, you know, in American history, every four years, people just get a lot more polarized. So our goal is to heavily spend on acquisition throughout the summer and not procure cold leads during that time and have a really big spins on retargeting our current warm and see how that would perform for us. That's our preliminary thought

Speaker 4

and keep in mind. So how many customers did you have out of this, on this launch

Speaker 3

3002.

Speaker 4

And so that means 32,000 people are in your email list now who didn't purchase new people that you got acquired. And you're getting all these people from your lead magnet at a very, a great cost per lead. You get to nurture them so that when the next time you launched the end of the year, like you have all this massive new audience that you've been nurturing now for four or five, six months. Absolutely.

Speaker 3

The mantra. And this is for any business owner, who's putting something out like on a webinar, teaching something. I don't look at it as people saying no to me, I don't look at it . People saying no to social curator, I look at it as simply saying, you're saying not now. And the challenge for me is to convert you in one 10, five months or a year to make sure that you say I'm going to overdeliver with free content on the front end. I'm going to smother you with goodness. So that if you like, what you see in the outside, your only objective is to say, I have to invest in what she's doing on the inside.

Speaker 4

Yeah. And can I just say one thing real quick about social curator and Jasmine doesn't know, I like I'm an , a plug social curator, but I was in the room when we were throwing this, you guys through, like, you guys were like, we were coming to this with like this crazy idea and we're all like a hell yes, this is an amazing idea. Um, and I'm one of the original social curator. It was like the first like a hundred people or whatever. I don't know .

Speaker 3

Rick Mulready was one of the first hundred people I remember sitting, Hey, I'll you a little love box, almost just was a Securitas wag . Um , at the end of the day, I will never forget sitting in New York city in a cafe, it was raining outside. And we went from such like a really downtime. We were really, really, really overwhelmed with something that happened personally in the business with a few team members. And we said, we had to pivot, we're sitting in a cafe and we moved from the cafe to a coffee shop where we've got gluten free cookies and chocolate. And we're like, we're naming this thing today and we're going to go back and we're going to do this to have somebody just blindly support what it is, means so much. It meant so much then, but it means that much more now that you were still part of the journey instill really empowering us to move the needle. Jade . Is there any other questions that you might have?

Speaker 5

I don't think so. We covered it all.

Speaker 4

So Jayden , I want to know for me, like, w like, where are you feeling right now about all of this, I'm going to put you, this is my interviewer coming out right now. Like, how are you feeling about this after the discussion?

Speaker 5

You know, I feel pretty good about it first and foremost. I think it's really good to hear someone else say, like, there is always discrepancies. I'm just one of those people who I like everything to be in its box. And I like to know why it is the way it is. And so it's you look at it and you're like, what should I have done differently in this launch? Like, what do we need to set up for next time so that we have our tracking setup . Um, so I think it's really good to hear that because at the end of the day, no matter what we do, we probably will have a little bit of difference there. Um, and you know, for the most part, I feel good. I think it's really good to hear you talk about , um, just the attribution of Facebook ads, how that works and why it works that way. It's, you know, you can read about it all day long and then still kind of question it. So I think it's been helpful to hear you explain the other side of it. I think I understand that a little bit better,

Speaker 4

and the fact that you are questioning it is a good thing, right? We should be questioning our stuff all the time, just making sure, like, all right , why is it like this? Or why is it like, is there something I'm missing here or, or whatever. And I, I think your strategy of, you know, what we're going to double down now on lead generation and list building now so that we can nurture them and then just do a big whole retargeting , um , campaign for the next launch. I mean, I love that strategy, especially as you said, Jasmine later in the year, elections, like the costs inevitably go up during that time. So,

Speaker 3

so I just want to say a great big, thank you Rick, for doing this. I know that you have an accelerator program, which is a membership for people who want to get continuing and ongoing education. The algorithm changes all the time. The way that the ads are presented structured ads, manager changes all the time. If you would like more information on following Rick on his absolutely free podcast, following Rick on social and getting more information about his accelerator, Rick, where can people dig into a little bit more about what you do?

Speaker 4

Uh , thank you for that. The art of online businesses, the podcast we publish twice a week , uh , Wednesday is sorta my full length episode. If you will. And then Fridays , I call them a quick tip Fridays. And that's a , I'd say less than 50 minutes. The original goal was like less than 10. It's probably less than 15 at this point. Um, and we just dig into like a one specific tip or strategy or something on those Fridays. And then I'm at Rick Mulready on Instagram. And I'm not sure when this is coming out, but my new website, I don't even tell you about it. My new website is coming out with the next couple of weeks. Uh, Rick mulready.com or redesigning the debacle that it is right now.

Speaker 2

Here's the thing. Friends, even Rick in his most of buckled state is as a sight to behold . So Rick, thank you so much. Thank you for your generosity beginning in 2016, still to the day you have always treated me with respect and to just , um, encouragement. So thank you for extending the respect, encouragement to our listeners today. I appreciate you. Hope you have a good one.

Speaker 4

Absolutely. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Speaker 2

Wasn't that such a great episode. I loved getting this peek behind the curtain into ad strategy and lead acquisition as the creative director of social curator. This is definitely not my forte. So I learned a lot and I hope you did too friend. If you enjoyed the Jasmine star show, as much as I do, would you please leave an iTunes review? All you have to do is open the purple Apple podcast app on your phone search for the Jasmine star show and click write a review. We can't wait to read your kind words and let it shape the content our team creates for you. Thank you so much for tuning into the Jasmine star show and Jasmine will be back in your earbuds super soon.

Speaker 1

[inaudible] .