Strategies that Have Transformed My Business with (My Coach) Susan Sierota

I generated an additional $555,000 in revenue with the advice she gave me for free.

That’s when I knew I needed her in my sphere.

And her mentorship has been, dare I say, life-changing.

Everything from helping me empower my team to run the operations to handling (many) business curve balls.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to handle tough situations in entrepreneurship, get more by doing less, and build confidence in yourself as a leader.

Click play to hear all of this and…

(00:00:15) The back story: how Susan and I’s mentoring relationship began and what it looks like now.

(00:02:13) How Susan impacted my business before I ever spent a dime on her.

(00:05:15) What Susan said to me (and didn’t say) that made me CRAVE her leadership.

(00:09:39) The conversation shifts to the challenges of being a CEO and the paradoxes and opposites involved in building and scaling a business.

(00:11:06) The importance of giving yourself credit and recognizing your strengths to build confidence and take action.

(00:12:45) The decision Susan helped me make which allowed me to empower my team and expand my business.

(00:15:07) One of the hardest things Susan helped walk me through.

(00:16:04) How to focus on PLANS instead of problems.

(00:17:15) The work that needs to be relinquished and/or resourced to align with your business goals.

(00:18:00) How to execute and get better results.

(00:22:30) Susan's experience in big companies, startups, and entrepreneurship.

(00:27:29) What to consider when applying advice.

(00:31:51) How to deal with emotions as a CEO.

(00:33:13) The importance of trusting your own judgment as a leader, making tough decisions, and dealing with conflicting advice.

(00:35:22) What it means to “earn the right to bigger problems.”

(00:40:27) Sneak peek of the upcoming podcast guests.

(00:44:53) A recent decision that encouraged me to think bigger.

(00:45:51) The process of thinking bigger by doing less.

For full show notes, visit:

https://jasminestar.com/podcast/episode414

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Transcript

(00:00:01) - It's a. She.

Jasmine Star (00:00:15) - Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show. And today I am bringing an episode that is near and dear to my heart, because you are going to be sitting in the passenger seat of a woman who has undoubtedly changed my life. I'm here to introduce you to my own coach, Susan. Susan, welcome to the Jasmine Star Show.

Susan Sierota (00:00:32) - I'm so excited to be here.

Jasmine Star (00:00:34) - I, I just cannot believe that this is actually going to happen. And before we actually get into your biggest power plays, can we go back to how we met? Because I really want to talk about a little bit of the grit and a little bit of the determination and a little bit of the luck. Derek. Okay, so there's two perspectives to our story. And I want you to jump in because, okay, I actually met you before. You met me. Yes. Okay. Great. So then I'm going to start it. But then I want you to to jump in I'm gonna turn it over to you.

Jasmine Star (00:01:06) - Okay. So there is an app that drops 2020 when the world feels like it's falling apart. And everybody's craving a bit of connection and we don't actually know how to make it happen. And then this app called clubhouse hits the scene, and people are simultaneously beguiled and enthralled, and everybody's clamoring to make a splash. And I remember I am a mother of a newborn. I'm waking up very early. I'm not talking to very many people. So I open the app and I don't know how. I came across a room with you and another woman by the name of Soumya, and the two of you guys were talking about SaaS companies, software as a service, and me starting my own tech stack in around 2020, 2021. I'm like, I'm going to learn everything I can. So I feel like I am going to college with these two professors. And every morning at 7 a.m. California time, I'm listening to their voices. So they become my friends. As I'm making my daughter breakfast and in preparation of breakfast, I am learning how to run a software company and think about product.

Jasmine Star (00:02:13) - And then months after listening to them five days a week religiously, five days a week, I develop the courage to, in the app, raise your hand. And so you literally press a button, he shows the hand, and then they bring you up on the audio stage. I think that this sounds so dumb when you say it out.

Susan Sierota (00:02:32) - Let me just tell you like, just imagine.

Jasmine Star (00:02:34) - This, like build up crescendo music playing because I'm like, she is going to raise her hand and she's going to in front of other SaaS founders who know a lot more than her, ask a question. And so months of listening, and I thought to myself, I am sitting with such a great opportunity to ask a question to two of the most brilliant people I have ever heard speak. I asked the question. You can start here. So what happens from your perspective when I come on and I ask a question.

Susan Sierota (00:03:07) - So you lit up the room first off. So I am so proud that you have the courage to come on and jump on.

Jasmine Star (00:03:14) - A lot of men it was always men.

Susan Sierota (00:03:16) - A lot of men would come in, and when Jasmine came on stage, she was so real. She was just like she is right now, like very much authentic in what she was doing in building. And she asked a question around how does she really drive additional growth in her business. And we started talking about some ideas for her to do that. And what I noticed, and Sam and I were actually we texted in the background. We were always like hitting each other up on text. We're talking about just how magnetic you were and how we really were excited to see what happened. And so we were very hopeful that you would come back and tell us what actually happened in the results that you had.

Jasmine Star (00:03:56) - I recorded clubhouse is on my phone in I am on there, but I grabbed Jade's phone and I recorded a video of myself asking the question, because I knew in that moment that something crazy was going to happen and I didn't know what it was, but I just knew I was like, you have to document this moment.

Jasmine Star (00:04:15) - And so crazy. I know it's meant to be. And my voice was totally shaking. I was like, and I didn't know how to ask the question. And so got really great advice. And based on that advice, I went and deployed, and I took a lot of the tips that you had mentioned. And in less than an hour, we had generated over $555,000 for the business. And I say that with all humility, because I don't think we would have executed the way that you had encouraged us to do. And that piece of advice, our five minute, eight minute conversation on clubhouse resulted in hundreds of thousands of dollars that help sustain the business. And so I went back to clubhouse a couple of weeks later, raised my hand, and I gave an update, and I said, I did what you said, and oh my God, it worked. And you were so excited. And then it went silent. I would still listen to you, but I never raise my hand again.

Jasmine Star (00:05:11) - And then our paths re intersect. Can you talk to me a little bit? Yeah.

Susan Sierota (00:05:15) - So I was super stoked. As I said, I was really hoping in texting with Maya saying, I hope that you come back and tell us what happened. And there was just something meant to be in that conversation, and you came back up and really excited to see the results. And I just it sat with me and I kept thinking about you and wondering how your business was doing. And so I reached out to you and I last night at dinner, I said, I started stalking,, I did, and I reached out to Jasmine. I was like, there's something really powerful about you and what you're building and who you are as a human. And I want a front seat to the amazingness that you're going to create., and so just wanted to check in and see how you were doing and. Okay, let.

Jasmine Star (00:05:55) - Me tell you, I don't think I don't think I've ever mentioned this part.

Jasmine Star (00:05:58) - So, you know, I am first generation Latina, first time founder, first time like thinking that I can actually build a business, the first person in my family to build a business. And so I've been raised with the belief better for worse. There's an acronym Tin Stoffel. There's no such thing as a free lunch. And so when somebody asks something, somebody I was raised to believe subconsciously everybody's out for their own. Totally. And when I got a message from you and you're like, hey, I'd love to catch up, my first thought was, oh, what's coming? I'm going to get pitched. And I went in and I'm like, okay, what could she be possibly be pitching me? And so then we had a conversation, and all you wanted to talk about was ways to grow, improve, expand. And so then we ended the conversation and I thought to myself. Something else is coming. Surely something else is coming. And then like maybe 5 or 6 weeks later, you're like, hey, just tapping in.

Jasmine Star (00:06:51) - How is it going? Do you want to set up a call? I thought to myself, this. Now, now here it comes, here it comes. And then we have another conversation and there's nothing. And I asked you on that second call, why are you doing this?

Susan Sierota (00:07:05) - Remember that.

Jasmine Star (00:07:06) - And you had said, I think that more women need to start businesses. And I think that I have a lot of experience. And my goal is just to help you. And I still was like, I'm not, I don't know, you got a call. And then five, six weeks later you're like, how is it going? It was after the third call with no expectation and no pitch that I was like, okay, I'm done. If I don't work with you, I'm going to stalk you for the rest of my life. I'm like, I'm going to get my claws in you. And this is how we have now worked together. Two years.

Susan Sierota (00:07:41) - Yeah, two years, two years.

Jasmine Star (00:07:43) - And we meet on a weekly basis and you have changed me. You've changed my business. You've changed my leadership from the inside out. And so I know that my goal here is I made a promise that everything I learned I was going to share. And so I want to use a lot of the principles you've applied to my business and apply it to the broader spectrum of people who are listening. Awesome. And so I want to say thank you. I just really want to say thank you.

Susan Sierota (00:08:10) - I want to say thank you back. Like the point I don't want to get lost in that story is that I work with a lot of people, and I do charge for my time. I have a belief that you should charge what you're worth and more. Yeah., and then free up. That frees you up to have impact hours if you want to do that. And there's not really a middle ground and it's it was you that had me calling you and checking in every six weeks. There's so much amazingness behind your intellect, your authenticity, your desire to help others that even being able to watch you do that is inspiring to me.

Susan Sierota (00:08:52) - And so thank you for letting me be part of your journey.

Jasmine Star (00:08:54) - Thank you, thank you. And right now I want to be embarrassed, I want to recoil, and I want to make a joke and be like, okay, moving on. 1.1 nothing to see here., but what I really want to do is have a very open conversation around the struggles that I have had as a founder, and how those struggles are patterns that you see and with the people that you coach. And one of the things that we talk about is you had said, if I quote, being a CEO requires thriving in the ambiguity of paradoxes and opposites. Yes. And it took me a while to understand it. So if people are like or watching or listening and be like, wait, what in the world? And it took you a while to repeat the same thing again and again and again. And then the minute it clicked, I started seeing big shifts. So can we talk there? Absolutely. Conversation there.

Jasmine Star (00:09:39) - Okay.

Susan Sierota (00:09:40) - So being a CEO and building a business is the hardest.

Jasmine Star (00:09:44) - Hardest. I mean can we just like can we drink martinis at seven.

Susan Sierota (00:09:48) - Right. Totally. Like it is. It is get kicked in the stomach time and time and time and time and time again and get up. And what I think is really, really difficult about it is you have to live in paradoxes and opposites. So whether it is the act of building, which is letting chaos reign, or the act of scaling, which is really reining chaos in, at the same time, you have to have really a big heart to do what you do and to lead and inspire, and you've got to have some really tough decision making. You've got to balance really quality and velocity at the same time. You have to be really optimistic and believe in the future that you can create. Like when everything is telling you it might not be possible, and at the same time be paranoid of everything that happens around you. Okay.

Jasmine Star (00:10:34) - Can we can we talk about that one? Yeah.

Jasmine Star (00:10:36) - To believe that anything is possible and then be paranoid that it's not.. What are some of the things that you have coached me over the years, and then the other CEOs that you coach,, how do you move us through that? Because there have been plenty of times where I get on a call and I'm feeling okay. There's plenty of times that I'm not feeling okay. And so what are the things somebody who's listening, they might not have a coach. How do we self-talk our way? And actually this is advice for me because when I only talk to you once a week, I need to hear you in my in my head, like every single day, every minute of the day.

Susan Sierota (00:11:06) - So I think it starts really with like, giving ourselves credit for what we're doing.

Jasmine Star (00:11:12) - Oh, you're so good at that, right?

Susan Sierota (00:11:14) - It's so important because we as builders tend to look at what's wrong, what we're not doing right. It's what makes us successful. Because if we just spend all of our time giving ourselves pats on the back like the business wouldn't move forward.

Susan Sierota (00:11:26) - And so we really are become experts at finding what the problems are, what are the problems we're going to jump in on and fix. And so what happens in that process is we lose confidence and we forget to really step back and look at where we've come from and what we've done. And it's not just from an emotional standpoint that that's important, but look at what you've been building. And one of the big things that you do really well is you double down and triple down on what's working and what your key strengths are. And so there's the process of really stepping back and saying, what am I doing? Well isn't just about let's feel good. It's about how do I then triple down and get action on the things that I am really good at?

Jasmine Star (00:12:03) - Can you give a real example? And I'm putting you on the spot and if it doesn't come to you, no worries. But like, I really want to use this as an opportunity. So to be clear, to be clear, if anybody's listening or watching and they think that I'm interviewing my coach because I think you need a coach, that's actually not the case.

Jasmine Star (00:12:20) - What I want to do is I want to open my business and kind of like extrapolate real examples that people can start applying to themselves. And so when there was a time of you saying, Jasmine, you're really good at doubling or tripling down on what you're good at. Sometimes I don't see that, you know, it takes somebody else to see that. So has there been examples where you're just like, okay, we're doing three things and we're I-c-u cutting this out and tripling down on this. Like let's bring this idea into an example.

Susan Sierota (00:12:45) - One of the clearest examples is your software business. So when we were working together and you were spending the majority of time on your software business, and that is great, but your business is in a stage now where the visioning and the partnerships and all of that have really been put in place. And, and now what you really need is the nuts and bolts operating. Yep. You have a CEO who's amazing at nuts and bolts operating. And so in order to take your business to the next level and start really achieving progress towards your bigger vision, yes, you needed to step away from that business and you needed to learn how to trust that your amazing CEO could run with that and be able to really put a hard line on things that you've always touched.

Susan Sierota (00:13:39) - That was your baby, to then triple down on what you are amazing at, which is creating a future, inspiring others. You take all of these complex ideas and you simplify it into action and frameworks better than anyone I have ever met. And so being able to really figure out how do we expand your voice in doing that and adding value and the impact that you can have outsized results in versus worrying about the bugs in the software?, is a.

Jasmine Star (00:14:08) - Really good it's not a bug. It's a feature, baby. Come on now. Come on. Do you remember,, we were sitting at the table in the kitchen and you were talking about Jasmine. You need to get out of the weeds, and you need to empower your team to do what they do. And I sat in a chair, and I looked at you, and I felt Susan like I was on the outside of myself, looking at myself, knowing I was being an obstinate child and I was fighting for my limitations. I was literally saying, no, Susan, I need to be doing okay.

Susan Sierota (00:14:41) - I've got to say that quote in my mind goes down in one of my all time favorite quotes. Working across every sale I've ever touched is Jasmine and I are sitting there and she's struggling, which most CEOs do to really take your business to the next level. I say all the time, our businesses grow us more than we grow them, and you have to stop doing everything that made you successful while it's working, because it's not going to work forever and do the next thing and that's you have to stop.

Jasmine Star (00:15:06) - Do say that again.

Susan Sierota (00:15:07) - You have to stop doing what made you successful to do the next thing.

Jasmine Star (00:15:12) - You have to stop doing what made you successful to do the next thing.

Susan Sierota (00:15:16) - And that's scary and uncomfortable.. And going through that emotion takes most people a lot of time to process. And I watched in literally a period of five minutes of Jasmine debating and questioning herself to just sit there and turn to me and say, I don't know why I'm sitting here fighting for my limitations. And my mind was blown.

Susan Sierota (00:15:43) - My mind was blown..

Jasmine Star (00:15:44) - So when we go through these things and somebody is sitting there and they know that or having an idea, okay, it is time for me to stop doing what got me here to get to the next level. What are like the first three action items that somebody needs to do to extrapolate themselves from what that is? Because sometimes you're like, I, I know it, I don't know how.

Susan Sierota (00:16:04) - Yeah. So the biggest thing that helps us is really taking a minute on a regular basis and stepping back and looking at what do I need to achieve for the next 12 months. Because we tend to jump on problems, not plants. Ooh. And to have that longer view. And even if you're building and you don't know what that view is going to be, but really laying out what you want it to be. And then saying, where do I need to put my time to achieve that plan?. And that's where we find, I think a lot of us spend time on the problems, and that's not what we need to be doing.

Jasmine Star (00:16:40) - And that's what I did for years.

Susan Sierota (00:16:41) - Right. And so it opens up the internal dialogue of being able to say, okay, what does the business need for me differently now and for the next 12 months than it did before in yesterday, and really asking that question, well, then be able to like look at things and say, Jasmine, you need to be doing this thing on your next business.

Jasmine Star (00:17:03) - . Okay. So that's action item number one. What do I need to achieve in the next 12 months. And I'm focusing on a plan and less on the problems. Yes. And then once I do that what would then be the next step.

Susan Sierota (00:17:15) - So then the next step is to look at the work that you're no longer going to be doing. And ask the question, is that work going to be what needs to get done in the next 3 to 6 months? Because sometimes there's a transition period, but it allows us to say, well, if we keep doing the same thing, we'll get the same results.

Susan Sierota (00:17:37) - And that doesn't get us to the plan. Or we might answer that and say, you know what? While we're building this new thing, we need to keep this train on the rails.

Jasmine Star (00:17:47) - Oh, yeah.

Susan Sierota (00:17:49) - And depending on the answer then looks at do we resource it with someone else and resource that work or do we let it go.

Jasmine Star (00:17:58) - And then three.

Susan Sierota (00:18:00) - Execute. Ideas, strategies, plans are all great. But they don't matter at all unless we execute. And it's hard. I say that so simply. It's so hard when you have a baby to hand that baby off to someone else, or to say, you know what, we're getting a couple hundred thousand dollars a month on this initiative and I'm going to stop doing it.. I grew up at Procter and Gamble, and it's one of the best case studies about how diluted focus dilutes your results. Because P&G went through a big thing where they literally said any brand that's not number 1 or 2 we're going to divest. And they sold off 3,040% of the businesses that they had and they grew.

Susan Sierota (00:18:48) - And the board. You hear the stories of the CEO who went there.

Jasmine Star (00:18:51) - But I want to pause there. I want to pause because somebody is listening. And this is such a big, big, big thing is that they let go. They cut back 40% and grew.

Susan Sierota (00:19:03) - Yes.

Jasmine Star (00:19:04) - And I think as business owners that are not Procter and Gamble, we worry about letting go of different types of revenue streams. And so I want to let that like really sit in. They cut back and they grew. And you are in Procter and Gamble. And like this is ideology is like now coursing through your veins. Yes. And how then does it apply now. Well you were going there I just I cut you off. So please go back. But I'm like we gotta pause there for a second okay.

Susan Sierota (00:19:32) - No, it's great. And you're hitting on it. It's like I use P&G as the starting place one because it's my in my DNA and how I think. But also if at that large of a global scale, you can cut back so much and stop doing things and still be able to actually grow from there and grow a lot faster than you were, says a lot.

Susan Sierota (00:19:51) - And every single CEO I work with, whether it's through coaching or board worker advising, the number one thing that gets them better results is focusing is making a list of what work they aren't going to do. As we're CEOs and we're building our smaller businesses up. It's so scary to let go of that revenue. It's so scary to look at it and say, I'm doing a shotgun approach right now, I need cash. Nothing else matters but cash. And so I'm going to do these five things. And there's this leap of faith that says, look, our job right now is to accelerate learnings. We accelerate learnings. We will get longer term to the revenue. And I know short term cash is is a path that we have to watch for. But you'll get that and you have to have blind faith in a lot of times to say if I do less, I will get more. Because what that means is every ounce of your being, every shower, thought that you have, everything that you're doing is going to making one thing successful.

Susan Sierota (00:20:46) - And if you have a team and you step back and the team is all shooting at a bullseye and they got their bow and arrow out, and they are amazing people and they are doing such a good job, and they are hitting that bullseye every single time. And then you pan out and you see that they're each hitting a separate bullseye. You're like, that's not going to get the momentum to get that thing off the paper. And so really being able to step back and say, let's put all of that energy, we're not going to work less, we're not going to do less. We're just going to put all of that into 1 or 2 things and accelerate our learnings, because then we'll know what works. And actually finding out what doesn't work is equally as important, because as long as we are accelerating our learnings, then we get to move on to the next and find what really is game changing on our revenue side faster.

Jasmine Star (00:21:31) - Okay, so normally in podcast interviews, people will start off with like, how did you get here? And I don't like that because I want people to immediately understand what is going to be the benefit of this particular episode.

Jasmine Star (00:21:41) - And so the benefit of this episode, from what I hope we've kind of already hit the ground running, was using my business as an example of the strategies you deploy against with the CEOs that you work with. And then we had mentioned that you grew up in Procter and Gamble, but you were also a two time exited founder. You are very familiar with venture capital capital. You sit on boards. You do you do things that the 1% of 1% of 1% women actually do. Can you give us like a brief overview now? Because I want to make sure that there is a difference of being a player and a coach, and then there is a difference of being a coach who is or once was a player. And I really do appreciate the fact that when you speak to me, you're like, I know how you feel. I have been exactly there. So can you bring us like a little bit of an origin story that what brought you here? And then why are you are so passionate about helping other CEOs?

Susan Sierota (00:22:30) - Yeah, absolutely.

Susan Sierota (00:22:31) - So chapter one,, in this book of Susan,, was big companies. So I started at Procter and Gamble. I spent almost ten years there in brand management, which the great thing about starting at a place like that in Procter is just known for getting results through people. It's an up or out organization. You either get promoted or you leave, and you can't get promoted. If you haven't developed a whole bunch of people to take your place at every level. So it really teaches you to the importance of of really leading through people and through values. So did that, then went from there, went to Miller, Molson Coors, whatever they name is now,, did that for around five years to turn around to $2 billion brand. And then from there I took over Peet's Coffee as the head of growth., right when they were expanding nationally., so that was super fun., I, we bought coffee com so that dates myself,, and started the home delivery business,, before e-commerce really was a big thing.

Susan Sierota (00:23:38) - So that was chapter one. Chapter two was the world of startups. So my first company was a fintech company, a fintech SaaS company.. And if you've ever heard of reward checking accounts, that's what we created. And it was a software to actually reward consumers for doing behaviors that were more profitable for the banks. We were on a mission to win the war with the mega banks, because community institutions really do help small businesses, and really got my love of helping small businesses grow into bigger businesses and to bigger, because that's where all the jobs come. It's what makes us amazing as a country so built that today it's still the largest account opening platform,, in the country. And it did it under this weird name called Casa because we did like a Intel inside kind of branding strategy to really move the needle,, and built that to run 350 plus people and exited that and then thought I was done building,, actually moved up to Tahoe, opened up a CrossFit gym. Yeah. And started coaching and sitting on boards and doing some project work and just having fun and and lost my,, dog at the time, and that happens.

Susan Sierota (00:24:50) - But what really almost broke me was knowing how long he'd been suffering. And I let him down and I was like, how does no technology exist to help us with this problem? And so I went back to the world of operating and started this company called Wag It, which was a gosh, by all things, a hardware company.,, that was a collar and app for consumers and a B2B SaaS platform on the back end for data and pet health spent around six years building that. My board and I thought we were building $1 billion business. And the pandemic hit, and we had semiconductors in our product, and we had,, one of the big car companies come buy out our manufacturing plant so they can manufacture her. And,, so had some challenges. And so we had a much earlier exit than we had planned., I say we like, sold parts and step back and really affirmed how much I wanted to help other people building because it can rip your heart out at times. And I had so much great support from from my board and my community and our customers.

Susan Sierota (00:25:59) - We we just had such an amazing team to get through that and get us to our exit, and wanted to be able to go back to helping others. And so that's chapter three now, which is helping others do the hard work of building. I say my purpose is to really enable the best of the best leaders to be their authentic selves and transform their businesses forever and for good. And each of those areas is very thought out., what I want to touch. And so I do that through advising. I do that through board work, I do that through occasionally coaching. And just I'm in such a great place where I'm working with some of the top leaders today and across multiple industries, since I have experience operating in multiple industries, and then I get to like, spend my time with amazing people like you.

Jasmine Star (00:26:47) - Well, okay, well, let's let's get that. We'll get that party started. And so it feels like chapter three is where we get to talk about the build. And so one of the things that you remind me often is the build is hard.

Jasmine Star (00:27:00) - And a lot of this when we come back down to, when I was talking to people, as I'm building, you get different levels of advice. And so sometimes if you ask three people, they're going to give you three different answers. How can we as business owners. And a lot of times people may not have access to like a coach, a mentor or a group. And so they hear advice from person X, Y, and Z. How do we have a framework for evaluating what kind of advice we're going to apply to our business, and whether it applies to our business?

Susan Sierota (00:27:29) - I love that because I just shrink inside when I see some of the advice that's out on the internet, okay, I'm just like, oh my gosh. One be wary of generic advice because generic advice will get you either generic results or no results. But it's it really is scary out there. But more importantly, even the really great people are going to give you advice through their own lens and experience. And it's really important to know that.

Susan Sierota (00:27:54) - Right? And so my even my own advice, I will tell everyone that I work with, go get other opinions, get other thoughts, and let's talk about it. Let's get all the idea is really good leaders and really good people who want to give advice. Their goal is to get to the right answer, not to be right. And so really stepping back and saying, first, what is the perspective of the person that's giving you the advice? How did they learn that advice? I am with you. I think that if you're getting advice from non operators, be very wary.. it doesn't work usually. I mean you're broken clocks right. Twice a day. but for the most part it's, it's going to be trouble. The nuance in building a business. We all know it's hard because it's so nuanced. And so make sure that they've operated understand where they're coming from. If someone is coming from, recency bias is real. If they're coming from a company that they've built to 100 people and you're at the stage of 20 people, ten people, their advice, they yes, they've done it, but they're recency bias.

Susan Sierota (00:28:59) - If they're not really aware of it, is not going to play out. And they're going to think about resourcing things too much. They're going to think about processes too much. And I said earlier, the art of building is letting chaos reign. It might feel a little scary, but it's where you get that speed and that velocity. And so look at where they're at. And how long has it been since they've been in your stage, and can they actually provide examples of what works at your stage.. So that's one is where are they coming from. where did they learn that lesson. The second is really looking at. When questioned. When you're asking questions, are they augmenting the advice towards your specific situation? And can they back that up with stories?

Jasmine Star (00:29:46) - And give an example.

Susan Sierota (00:29:47) - So I am working with a company right now that is going through a layoff and really, really difficult to step back and say, what work are we stopping doing? How are we going to treat people with the kindness and the respect that they deserve and get through this whole thing? I mean, there's nothing harder as a CEO and feeling like you've left your team down and you need to get rid of jobs.

Susan Sierota (00:30:16) - It's we all have to do it because we have to care about the people, jobs that we're saving by doing that. But it's really, really rough. And now I just forgot what the where I was going with the question.

Jasmine Star (00:30:28) - When asking questions, are they augmenting with source? And so you said you were working with a client and they're doing a layoff. Thank you, thank you.

Susan Sierota (00:30:34) - I was like.

Jasmine Star (00:30:35) - That's why I write notes, girl. That's why right.

Susan Sierota (00:30:36) - Now caught up in the emotion of laying people off, which is hard. So,, when you're looking for advice on that, I'm working with the CEO. I've sat with and I've said, look, here's what I specifically did that was unique and creative when I laid off 20. Here are the things that worked. Here are the things that didn't work, and I was able to share personal stories on how did we help get the right people jobs as a follow up at that level of nuance, really talk through, okay, here's some hard conversations that I had and here's exactly how I manage that.

Susan Sierota (00:31:07) - Then I said, go talk to other people who've done this recently. Go get their stories. Understand? And so the CEO came back to me and said, I got a lot of different advice about actually how to communicate this out to the team. I was like, let's talk about that advice. And one of the advice, big things that they were given is because we're now in remote and hybrid, it's really hard to message and communicate the timing of this to everyone. Right. And he got advice from someone who's like, the best thing to do is just get on a zoom and tell everyone. And when we started asking this person who was giving this advice, had he ever done that? He had never run a business. So he was sitting there telling him how to actually communicate the hardest thing that he was going to do.

Jasmine Star (00:31:51) - Having never.

Susan Sierota (00:31:51) - Done having never done it. And so that zoom advice is not bad advice. But when we looked under the hood and started saying, okay, so then what's your follow up plan? What do you do? There was no meat there, so he wouldn't have been prepared if he just listened to that.

Susan Sierota (00:32:04) - So he understood. Looking at it, this person has never been through it. How are they going to really understand? And to your point, how are they going to understand the emotion of it? Yeah, because while we don't have the right to put our emotions on our team in that moment, like when it matters so much and we'll find ourselves saying things like, this is so hard on me, and your team doesn't want to hear that at the moment, right? Right. It's about them. Yeah., but with that, we need to understand how we're feeling. We need to understand the impacts not only so we can get through it, but so we can do it the right way. Because if we don't understand our emotions, they're going to come out in other ways. And we need to deal with that to be there for our teams in those tough moments. And so this person who was giving advice was telling him things that looked like, this is going to blow up in your face.

Susan Sierota (00:32:47) - This is not your culture. This is not how you do things. This is going to feel very inauthentic to you. There was a whole bunch of visa situations that he was going through that would have been left on the side. And that's one of the toughest things. Yeah. And so you start looking at it and really look that they've been there, that they've done it themselves.

Jasmine Star (00:33:04) - So the first one is where are they coming from. Where do they learn that lesson when asking questions. Are they augmenting with history or examples and stories. Yeah.

Susan Sierota (00:33:13) - Which and you can tell if someone's never been there from their stories. And then the third thing is trust in your own judgment. No one knows your business like you do. Your job as a leader of this business? I said it before, it is worth repeating is not to have the right answer, but to get the right answer. And so you take all this information in, you understand where people are coming from, their best intentions and really smart people are going to come from a different place.

Susan Sierota (00:33:41) - You've got the story, so you can see how that relates to you, and then you have to make a tough call. You have to decide what to do, and you're going to have opposite. You're going to have opposite advice all the time on everything. And that's why it's tough being the leader, because at the end of the day, you know your business. You know the right thing to do. And even if you don't, you still have to make it right. So make a decision and make it the right one and go from there.

Jasmine Star (00:34:02) - Has there been a time I actually was thinking about this? In back of my mind we were saying this. Has there been a time where you've given me advice that I didn't take, or have I been mostly like you and I have been putting in enlightenment? Not that it makes me the valley Victorian of the people you coach, but,, have I pushed back ever on something or saying like I disagree?

Susan Sierota (00:34:20) - I don't think so. I think what, what you've done more of is you've taken our conversations and made them your own.

Susan Sierota (00:34:30) - So you don't act in the moment of I've never seen you just say, take what we've talked about and then go do to you. Always make it your own. You put your own filter on it and say, okay, what does this mean for me and my, my leadership and my belief system? And then you execute through that. So you you naturally augment to who you are.

Jasmine Star (00:34:47) - You said that,. I earn the right to bigger problems, because I think that I was in a state where I'm just like, does it ever get easier? Like, it feels like I know, and I think that there was like this, this misnomer, this story that I kept saying. It's like when the business gets to that size, when we have this many team members, or when I have this much time in my day, it's going to get easier. And you just looked across the table from me and you're like, we earn the right to bigger problems. And I'm like, I want to forfeit that, right?, so, so, so can you break that idea down? Like, how do you earn the right to bigger problems? Because it helped me be like, oh, my problems be big.

Jasmine Star (00:35:22) - It's like more money, more problems. Like, okay, okay, but talk to me about bigger problems.

Susan Sierota (00:35:28) - , yeah. So I want to step back with that one and say that tell a story about one of my CEOs who was one of the younger on their journey,, of stage of company and. Literally had raised a couple million dollars. Blew it all on the wrong things. They hired people who were,, more experienced for that stage than they needed, so they didn't know how to actually get stuff done anymore. They made decisions and invested in the wrong parts of the business that they weren't ready for., they were building for investors and not for their customers. And so they spent almost all of their money doing things that you could rationalize away, saying, these are the right things, and that's the extreme. And I'll take it down to more day to day. But for this person to step back, we were able to say at the time, well, that lesson you learned, you didn't read that legal document and it cost you $100,000, right? That person, you know what? Cheap lesson.

Susan Sierota (00:36:29) - Because now you're going to go and you're going to build something even bigger in this company. And if you don't do that in the future, it's costing you $1 million. Right. So we earn the right to solve those problems, the smaller ones that feel so big to us in the moment, because they are. But when we learn from them and we really say, what are we taking forward here? We never faced that challenge again. And we get bigger problems because we've actually figured out some of these smaller ones, and that continues to grow. And what we think of today as a huge, insurmountable problem when we're in it and we learn from it, then we're going to find out.

Jasmine Star (00:37:04) - Child's play.

Susan Sierota (00:37:05) - Yeah, it's the next thing.

Jasmine Star (00:37:06) - , sometimes I feel like whenever I'm facing something that I'm like, I cannot believe that this is in front of me. I hear your voice in the back of my mind, and I'm like, wow, I earned the right to solve this one. Like, I wouldn't I wouldn't be given this problem if I hadn't solved the smaller problems or what I thought were the biggest problems then.

Jasmine Star (00:37:24) - And so when you look at operators and you look at your CEOs and you're like, okay, bigger problems, what kind of mindset can we start applying to? Like there's going to be bigger problems. How do I not get so like beat up about it? How do I stay strong? How do I get get up in the morning and be like, oh, another day of this glorious gut punching?

Susan Sierota (00:37:44) - So the first thing is just get up. The only way out of it is through it. It really is. We've made a commitment when we're building to our employees, our customers, our communities, our investors, if we have them. And so when we make that level of commitment, we just need to get up and figure it out and start there. Yeah. It sucks sometimes I will personally. How one of my friends, when I'm feeling it, I'm like, can I have a ten minute pity party? She's my one of my best friends. She's like, who do we hate today? And we don't hate anyone.

Susan Sierota (00:38:20) - But it's just that really. Take it to the extreme, play with it, do whatever you have to do so you can just then put it aside and move on. Right. Yes. And so acknowledge it, play with it, move it aside. And it's hard to say play when it's like something I'm going to rent out cash or not make payroll. You know, go have a pity party and come back and deal with the problem. So? So that's number one., the second thing when we look at it is to really understand, like where we've come from.. And take that step back. And I mentioned it when we first started talking and really say okay so. I can do this. I've done harder things. Like I can do hard things and get that confidence back to doing it, because that's really what it comes from, is we have to give ourselves pep talks sometimes, and then surround yourself with other builders at your stage who you can call and say, hey, have you ever done this before? How do you get through it?

Jasmine Star (00:39:17) - So when you're talking about calling, this is a perfect segue.

Jasmine Star (00:39:20) - It's like you just set me up for this. When we talk about,, talking to other founders and other people in this, I want to draw a parallel between the clubhouse room that I would listen to at 7 a.m. in the morning, and then you also did a different clubhouse room with two other phenomenal, powerful, amazing, brilliant women. And over the years, you've maintained friendships with these women. And you kept on telling me over the last two years, these are women you have to know. These are women who are much further along in their career, and the way that they've thought about the game and the way that they've supported each other and other people, people that they trust. And you've been saying for two years, and I'm so excited because this podcast is bringing the band back together. The three of you guys are going to be on my podcast each individually and then all of us together. And so last night when we were talking, you had used a word to describe each person.

Jasmine Star (00:40:21) - And so as our listeners are here, what can they expect? Well, first let's say who are we bringing? Person number one.

Susan Sierota (00:40:27) - Person number one is Jocelyn Moore.

Jasmine Star (00:40:29) - Jocelyn Moore.

Susan Sierota (00:40:30) - , she joined us for dinner last night.

Jasmine Star (00:40:31) - She did?

Susan Sierota (00:40:32) - , she is. She is my word. There's a lot behind. This was. She's she's Buddha. She's,. Yeah. She can make the magic happen. From the heart and the mind and the gut. She is the Buddha.

Jasmine Star (00:40:45) - One of the things that you said was not only was it the heart, the mind in the gut that she gives advice that is like, it's very it's very wise. She gives wise advice, but because she's getting disparate ideas and thoughts, listening to a person speak, getting disparate thoughts, and then putting together a solution that the person always deep down know was the truth. And so sometimes in a very Buddha like way, you're like, oh, that's true through the capital T, but I could never see it.

Jasmine Star (00:41:08) - And that is her power play, totally hers.

Susan Sierota (00:41:11) - , it's it's her magic power. She's better at it than I've ever seen. And she uses her power for good., she really does. She,, stands up and wants to make sure that other people doing the hard work have can see what is possible, because then nothing will stop them from getting it. And that's her mantra.

Jasmine Star (00:41:32) - Oh that's good. I mean, that's like a great runway to get her hair. And then the second person Kelsey Grayson, Chelsea Grayson.

Susan Sierota (00:41:38) - Chelsea is the most courageous, powerful, strong woman I know., Chelsea was a three times public company CEOs. She does tons of board work. I used to make jokes when I was working with other women that we need to channel our inner white guy, because there's that level of confidence that even if they've never done something that we don't necessarily, as a gender, do as much of,, we're like, oh, we have 90% of that thing on a job spec, but not the other ten, so I won't apply.

Susan Sierota (00:42:08) - And that's just historically how women have been looking at the data. And I no longer say, channel your inner white guy. I say channel your inner Chelsea, okay? She is just super smart, super to the point. Super there. So she is that opposite of fierce, fierce, tough decision making and big heart. She can play in both of them and she will make anything happen. And she believes in herself and her ability to do right.

Jasmine Star (00:42:36) - She is a.

Susan Sierota (00:42:37) - Force.

Jasmine Star (00:42:37) - As a force, she is force. And so you guys would be hosting these rooms.

Susan Sierota (00:42:41) - Okay, hold on before we go back to the clubhouse. And then the third person we were talking about with this word was Miss Jasmine's star.

Jasmine Star (00:42:47) - Oh, I was gonna I was gonna go right over that one. I was gonna go with that one. Okay.

Susan Sierota (00:42:51) - , I shared that Jasmine's word to me was scholar. And that word is I started with the word wisdom, because what Jasmine can do is she can take so many complex ideas and really simplify them down into a way that is so actionable for people that works unlike anyone I've ever met.

Susan Sierota (00:43:15) - And there is such wisdom in that. There's such wisdom and there's such curiosity in how you approach life. You come at it from a really humble curiosity of I want to learn across everything. So you see things that others don't and you can pull it together. And so it requires wisdom. But it wasn't enough for me of a word, because your impact and your mission is to impart that on others. And so one of the people in history that I most admire, Socrates, because I love how he taught and I think of you, I think that you you can pull this. You will give anything and everything, but also only if people are willing to do the work right. And so it's that Socrates in you and you are a full scholar, so.

Jasmine Star (00:43:58) - Well, thank you., as a law school dropout, having a reference to Socrates and the Socratic method during that is good because it's like, you're right. You see me for wanting to share everything I know, but also I minced no words about the action that needs to be taken.

Jasmine Star (00:44:14) - And if you're not going to do the work, it's okay. I'm going to yeah, I'm going to move on real quick. Yeah. And it goes.

Susan Sierota (00:44:18) - Back to our earlier conversation on how do you know advice is good. And I use you as the example because you're consistent. You apply things through your lens and your stories and you're like, here's what I went through. Here is what I see. And you execute and you come back and you say, here are the results of the execution. And so with your consistency, with your operating background, with you having done the things that you talk about as you're sitting on boards and as your advising companies, you really do apply that. And I get to watch you do that. And it's pretty amazing.

Jasmine Star (00:44:53) - , so,, as we have these other women come, I kind of want to just to have like a very candid conversation about the type of goals and trajectory that I have for my career. And to maybe give an example, if we can, a rather recent example of how I saw a situation and I could only dream up to a certain level, and because of your experience or because you have a bigger world view, you had said, okay, that's not enough, but more.

Jasmine Star (00:45:20) - And so we'll keep it kind of a little bit generic. But the idea was that I was going to come in with a company and almost act as a partner of sorts in advice, in exposure, and that's where I thought this would be a great way for me to get my foot in the door. And then you came back and said no. What was then the shift of, I thought that this was the scope of what I would be able to do, and you came in and helped me think bigger. What was that advice? Because I want somebody to see where they can start and then challenge them to think bigger.

Susan Sierota (00:45:51) - I'm not sure I'm going to go. Where? What's in your head? Okay., what you've been doing an amazing job of is thinking bigger by doing less. And I think that's something that we should all look at at all stages of our business. And so in the world of how do you think bigger, let's do less and, and allow yourself to go there.

Susan Sierota (00:46:12) - Because what limits our thinking is our thinking we can do it. Or thinking about the work and the operationalization of that. Right. But instead of letting that go. And so you have been saying, I will think bigger by doing less..

Jasmine Star (00:46:26) - That has been the whole movement of 2023. You kept on pushing and that is such a great way to like bookend where we started and where we are now. And I have found myself being challenged to think bigger and do less. And so for people to follow, get more information, learn more about you. Where do they go? And here's the thing I tried, and this is the thing it's like, so Susan is highly sought after, but it's also because you're basically invisible. I tried stalking you. I couldn't find you on. After I started following you on clubhouse. I was like, who is this woman? You're basically invisible on the internet. So I don't even know, like, where do people go to find you? Because I couldn't I couldn't creep you out.

Susan Sierota (00:47:11) - It's it's awesome., I'm like, I just don't I've done my whole world of social media posting and all of that world for businesses, not for myself.

Jasmine Star (00:47:19) - Yeah, I know, I know.

Susan Sierota (00:47:21) - , so the one area in social media that I am on is on LinkedIn, LinkedIn. And so anyone is welcome to go LinkedIn. I do look at my messages and connect to me.

Jasmine Star (00:47:32) - Oh nice. Okay. So LinkedIn Susan Sirota yeah there it is. There it is, y'all. Thank you for listening to the Jasmine Source Show. I love having the opportunity to open my business as an example of things that can be done by way of a lot of mistakes, learnings and getting back up again. Many thanks to my coach, my mentor, and my friend Susan for being here especially. This is just a highlight, a foretelling of what is to come. Because when all three of these powerhouses get together, they're going to do and recreate the magic that existed on clubhouse by answering business questions, opening up their journeys, and paving the pathways for other people to do even bigger things than they've already set out to do.

Jasmine Star (00:48:14) - And ladies and gentlemen, they have done some really big things. So prepare your hearts if you have found the show at all interesting, loving, amazing, educational, it would mean the world to leave a review. I read every single one of them and they have eight incredible impact on the show. Thank you for listening a thousand times over. Have a beautiful day.