The Jasmine Star Show

The Power of Clarity: Success, Money, and Mindset Shifts with Marie Forleo

• Jasmine Star

Share episode

Marie Forleo joins me for a full-circle conversation on building a dream life and business—with clarity, resilience, and heart.

We cover:
 ✨ Why “clarity comes from engagement, not thought”
 ✨ How to know if you’re chasing your dream—or someone else’s
 ✨ Marie’s favorite money mantra
 ✨ How she handles doubt + setbacks

Marie also shares the surprising lesson from a jewelry collab—and drops 3 powerful money + success mantras you don’t want to miss!

👉 Stay to the end for Marie’s 3 powerful money + success mantras!

Click play to hear all of this and:

[00:00] Why meeting Marie Forleo felt like a full-circle moment

[04:50] The biggest shift Marie sees coming for entrepreneurs in the AI era

[08:10] How to find your authentic voice (without sounding like a robot)

[13:30] Why engagement (not thinking) brings clarity

[18:55] A vulnerable story: chasing the wrong “dream” (and learning the hard way)

[25:20] What separates successful entrepreneurs from those who give up

[33:40] How Marie gets unstuck (and why asking for help is key)

[39:00] Let’s talk about MONEY: healing your relationship with wealth

[45:00] Three mantras to shift your mindset around success and abundance

Listen to Related Episodes:

Connect With Marie Forleo:

Entrepreneur, best-selling author of Everything is Figureoutable, creator of B-School, and host of MarieTV. Marie empowers business owners to turn their dreams into reality—with a little sass and a whole lotta heart.

Where to find Marie:

📧 Join my Newsletter for a weekly cocktail of insider business strategy, personal reflections, and the journey of being a thought leader: https://jasminestar.com/newsletter 📧

For full show notes, visit jasminestar.com/podcast/episode562

You know that feeling when you find a platform that just works—and you never have to worry about switching? That’s been me and Showit for the past 10+ years.

I built my website with Showit because it gives me total design freedom.

If you’re ready to build a website that works FOR you—and not against you—head to JasmineStar.com/showit for a 14-day free trial + first month free when you subscribe!

Jasmine Star 00:00:00  Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show, a place where we get to talk about life, entrepreneurship and today, a little dash, a little support of pursuing your life to the fullest and following your dreams. I could not think of anybody better to have this conversation with somebody that I followed early in my career, and to be able to sit in a studio with her in New York City, no less, is a full circle moment. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Jasmine Star Show, Marie Forleo. Yay! I am so happy we're here. I'm so happy we're here too. We're here. And so, one of the reasons I was so particularly excited. Well, number one, that you just said yes. So thank you. Oh thank you. Of course.

Marie Forleo 00:00:32  You're here in my home city. It's a joy.

Jasmine Star 00:00:34  You know, I exited the plane a day and a half ago and just the electricity when I landed, and I said, man, the people who get to live here, it is like being plugged into a socket.

Jasmine Star 00:00:44  It's real. And this is what you call home? Yeah. This is where you've been inspired?

Marie Forleo 00:00:48  Well, yeah. I mean, I can't stay here all the time because it's like a it's kind of like there's so much electricity and there's so much energy. And I did that for like, a huge part of the earlier part of my career. And I and it's like I'm never leaving the city. And now I was just with a bunch of friends last night and we were all talking about like, how many days can you last in the city before you need to boogie to like, get into another energetic zone? And for most of us, it's anywhere between like three and like 5 or 6 before we start going crazy. Months or weeks, no days.

Jasmine Star 00:01:15  What we have left. Are you leaving the city? Oh, we're starting up. Good.

Marie Forleo 00:01:18  Yeah. Okay. It's really fun. I am, I've always been a person that I'm not. I'm both kind of a lot of things at once.

Marie Forleo 00:01:26  So I'm both very rooted and very consistent. But I'm also very freedom based. And I need to have a ton of flexibility. Like I feel confined in a second, you know, like if my partner Josh hugs me too tight, I start doing like Lamaze breathing because it's total claustrophobia and it's been the same way. I know when I started my business back in the year 2000, which is insane, it's like stupid, crazy. But I remember one of the only touchpoints I had because I didn't know anything and I was terrified and I was so insecure, but I knew I didn't want a traditional office, and this was back in the year 2000. Before virtual anything was like a thing because I don't like being tied down to one place. All that to say, I bounce around a lot. Like right before we start a recording, I was sharing that, oh yeah, like I did a stint in LA and I used to go back and forth and I was bicoastal for like six years. Now I'm between here, a place out east that's like 15 minutes from the beach and it's all farmland.

Marie Forleo 00:02:19  And then I go upstate into the mountains, too. So we, we kind of float around a bit.

Jasmine Star 00:02:23  Now. I was also listening. I probably showed my level of creeper dumb, but you were also considering in a dream world, being able to buy or have dual citizenship in Italy. Oh yeah. No, that's still that is in the works really.

Marie Forleo 00:02:34  So it's in the works and things like this take forever especially. It's it's actually hilarious. And I was saying to a bunch of people I'm like, this is either the longest con job and like the best ever scam. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's a few thousand to get started and then like this much for the stamps and then getting this approved. And I was like, look, if this turns out to be like one big scam. They actually deserve my money. Do you know what I mean? Because it's like 6 or 7 years and I got an email from them recently. I was like, okay, we've done all of the genealogy.

Marie Forleo 00:03:03  Do you know what I mean? All of like the official stuff. And they said, now it comes the long part. I'm like, now comes the long part. I'm like, I've been with y'all since like 2020.

Jasmine Star 00:03:11  You're in like you're in. You've committed, you know, you're not going into it.

Marie Forleo 00:03:14  And then they're like, maybe we'll hear something in 26 like, don't hold your breath. And I was just like, okay. And I was. And so it's like it's one of those things. And it's notorious, I think, for most governmental systems. But they let me know, particularly in Italy at this moment, just the red tape and the bureaucracy. And because, you know, of the global pandemic, it kind of pushed what was already a very lengthy process back a bunch. So I am in the let Jesus take the wheel moment. And like, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But it's a great story.

Jasmine Star 00:03:45  If there's anything if there is anything that I know from you having watched your journey, I bet on you.

Jasmine Star 00:03:50  I bet on you. Okay, so ciao, Bella. We're going to be seeing you in Italy with, like, your place, your own zip code. A place that is your own. Hilarious. That's actually a really great place to start because you are so multi passionate and because I had no idea. You can only be a few days at a time in the city.

Marie Forleo 00:04:06  Yeah, I can last for a few weeks, but it does grate on me.

Jasmine Star 00:04:09  So there is the polarity between a place that you love and thrive in, and then a new and different place that you thrive in. And so I think it draws a really great parallel, because one of the reasons that I wanted to talk with you is you started many years ago. Yes. You were one of the forerunners, specifically as a female in this whole new landscape of doing business in a new way. Totally. And so having seen the ebbs and flows, having seen people come in and people exit out, and for you to remain so steadfast and still such a predominant leader in the industry.

Jasmine Star 00:04:38  I'm like, I get to ask Marie, looking backwards, which is 2020, perfect vision. What do you see for the future as an industry in the whole? And then I would like to ask subsequent questions about how we intersect that all of this stuff. But what do you see?

Marie Forleo 00:04:51  So a couple of things. I think that right now moving forward. First of all, I think AI is so incredibly exciting. And for most of us, it's also like terrifying and weird. It's a bunch of things all at once, right? I think the beautiful parts to it are that it can aid us in so many ways that we're so heavy before. Like, you know, just for context, not even relating to AI and how most of us use chat tools or agents or any of that right now. And that's not even speaking about the AI that's been embedded in our technology for, you know, the past, whatever, 6 or 7 years that's just been almost hidden underneath the surface. But I remember, like my first website, it was like I had to barter with one of my dad's employees because he was the only one who knew HTML, you know? So the length of time that it used to take us to do anything, the amount of people it used to take us to get an idea up and out into the world.

Marie Forleo 00:05:42  And so now that that entire landscape is not only completely different, but it's going to continue to get easier and easier. I think there's a few things to look at. One, I think it's more important than ever for people who want to develop a genuine audience, whether it's for their, you know, brand. And it may not be a personal brand, it may be a version of a business, it could be t shirts, it could be product based. It doesn't matter what it is or if it is someone who has a desire to coach or teach or lead in any way. I really do think it's more important than ever for you to strengthen your ability to communicate your genuine voice.

Jasmine Star 00:06:21  Amen.

Marie Forleo 00:06:22  Because there is so much generic stuff. And again, look, I love the tools. I ain't hating on the tools. I love them, but I can detect. Yep, really, really quickly. And it's so funny to look at my inbox and I'm like, oh my god, the friggin emojis, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you just stuck this through.

Marie Forleo 00:06:40  You know, I'm like, I can read the I can hear the chat, not the person. And so I think that there's a real opportunity for people in the coming years to stand apart, not by like, pushing themselves harder, but by having the courage to really be who they are. And so I think that there's an edge there. I think that there's a lot of people that are honestly probably not going to continue to do this work, because right now it just feels like there's so much static and it's such a tsunami of oversaturation, and you have to have a certain amount of resilience and adaptability and tenacity and courage to adapt and to pivot and change. And it's not a failing, but some people, that is not what they're excited to do. So they may have to find an expression in a different place. And that's totally okay.

Jasmine Star 00:07:29  Okay okay, okay. So I mean, there's so much I want to unpack here. Like, and there's two main means, and this is in regards to AI and using it in the future and to develop one's voice.

Jasmine Star 00:07:39  Yes. From your perspective you have a very strong distinct voice. When we read your newsletters, we feel okay, like we know we have an insight into her life. And when we hear you speak that is seasoned as trained. Might also be a gift for somebody who's starting. Yeah, somebody who's semi seasoned. How do they go? They're like, let's give 1 or 2 practical things. The show is about let's take some action. Let's go and do so. What can somebody do to find their voice?

Marie Forleo 00:08:00  I think that the easiest way is to not force it. Everyone that's listening right now, everyone that's watching right now, you text your friends, you DM your friends. You have conversations that are off the cuff. And if you allow yourself the opportunity to be that same exact person in your creation zone, whatever that is. And it's really simple. And I mean, and here's what's so wild. You know, I've actually taken stories that I've written like recent stuff and had I just helped me because I'm a terrible speller, I'm awful.

Marie Forleo 00:08:39  And I know that there's just, you know, spell check or whatever, but I'm like, I want to see what this thing can do. And I always find it funny because I'm like, oh, I watch how it vanilla fi's my voice. So I would say, just keep it your exact the way that you would text, the way that you would DM even using AI from a voice perspective to just speak your words into it, if you kind of get locked up on the page. There are ways to use these to amplify who you are, and there are ways to use these to kind of dampen who you are. So I would suggest that. So yeah.

Jasmine Star 00:09:10  Just as a as a sidebar, I actually on Substack you could subscribe to people and then you can decide to pay. I actually pay to a Substack whose entire Substack is written in text message form. Yeah. So there's no it is literally probably. And it's intimate. It's so intimate. And it's so I feel like I'm literally reading a long text message from a friend.

Jasmine Star 00:09:28  Yeah. So a cosign on that distinctly. And then the second point that you had said, I really want to drill down here. And this is like the real this is the real real. Yeah. Is you had said that because there's going to be a saturation of business owners there already, because there already are, there already are. And it's going to be. It's going to tense because of the AI tools that we're able to leverage. And then all of a sudden the work comes. And you had said that some people just don't want to do the work. Yeah. And so when somebody says, no, but I want to do X, but I it's the work that gets in the way. What's the tough love. What's the real honest response that you say to people.

Marie Forleo 00:10:02  Well I guess it depends. It's contextual. Like what exact work is it the work of understanding who your ideal customer is and being able to develop real solutions for that human from a compassionate and empathetic place? Like, is that the work? Is it sitting down and maybe creating systems or structures or team? Is it the marketing of it? I think it's identifying really what that work is and then having a super honest, noble conversation with yourself.

Marie Forleo 00:10:31  Do you actually want to do this? Because I think in any industry, obviously we're talking about online business here and kind of having an audience and all that stuff. But this applies if you want to be a chef. This applies if you want to be an actor. This applies if you want to be a professional dancer. If you like the outcome, like the shiny outcome. So everyone watching or listening right now, they love you. And that's the reason that they're listening to the Jasmine Star Show. And they may look at you and say, oh my goodness, she is so beautiful. She's so articulate, she's so accomplished. I want those outcomes. But even though you do a fantastic job, they still will never see all the work that you put in.

Jasmine Star 00:11:09  Amen.

Marie Forleo 00:11:10  Every single day. Every single night. The worries, the stresses, the insecurities, how you show up. Do you know what I mean? Like it's that unglamorous part of any, any profession that is quote unquote, the work.

Marie Forleo 00:11:24  So I think it's about being really honest with yourself about what you want to devote yourself to and what you don't. And it's not a failing if you're not into it. It's not it's freedom. It's freedom to then go align yourself. Because you know, my friend Liz Gilbert, who's like, one of the most magical humans I've legitimately ever met.

Jasmine Star 00:11:44  And we.

Marie Forleo 00:11:44  All.

Jasmine Star 00:11:44  Love her. No, no. You will. The fact that you get to say my friend Liz Gilbert like fangirl.

Marie Forleo 00:11:50  Yeah. No, she's she's ridiculous. And I feel incredibly honored and privileged that I legitimately get to say that. But what I was going to say is that my very first time interviewing her for Big Magic, back in like 2015, she actually quoted something that I believe Mark Manson had written on his blog, which was about this notion of a sandwich. And it's really applicable here. No matter what you're up to in life, there is going to be so-called sandwich that you got to eat. Do you know what I mean? There's going to be really tough, difficult confronting bits of it that are unglamorous, that are going to kick up all of your insecurities, that are going to be really, really challenging for you to move through.

Marie Forleo 00:12:32  And so no matter what you pick, you got to pick one to eat. So choose it right. It's like, do you want this particular flavor of a sandwich or do you want another one? You know, it's like, does that make any. Absolutely. And so it's it's the same thing I think here. And what we're kind of unpacking right now, whether it's about being a number one New York Times bestselling author, whether you want, you know, the number one podcast in the world, whether you again, there's a bajillion things. But I think one of the things that people can get tripped up on is in our age of social media, where most people are constantly, whether consciously or subconsciously comparing themselves, they're actually chasing other people's dreams and not their own. There's not enough stillness, there's not enough space, there's not enough separation, there's not enough inner looking to be able to discern what is your path versus what are you chasing that you think is going to give you the validation, the fame, the success that other people have.

Marie Forleo 00:13:32  There's an essence to what they have that you want, but it's not your path. Does that make sense?

Jasmine Star 00:13:36  I mean, totally, totally. But here we are. I'm going to go back to do if if somebody does realize and they have that that come to Jesus moment and saying like, what am I actually if I did the work realizing that I want what Marie has, but do I? And then they realize I'm actually not sure I want to eat the sandwich, that particular sandwich. Then how do we how do we know? What do we do?

Marie Forleo 00:14:00  So I have a very ADHD brain. I always have and I've I had it my it was a diagnosis given by this amazing doctor, doctor Ned Halliwell. I don't really live by labels, but I love this guy. And he was like, yeah, he told me. He said, you have the gift. And I love that. He told that to me, that.

Jasmine Star 00:14:17  The.

Marie Forleo 00:14:17  Way yes, that it was set up is like, oh no, you have this amazing gift.

Marie Forleo 00:14:21  I was like, oh my God.

Marie Forleo 00:14:22  That amazing gift.

Marie Forleo 00:14:23  And I just remember him saying, like, you take care of your gift. Your gift is all over the place. You have to like, really pay attention and take care of you. But in terms of the what you were asking about, this is about, well, how do we know what's ours? Right? How do we start to.

Jasmine Star 00:14:39  Go if we're even questioning? To me, in my mind is if you're questioning whether or not you want to eat this sandwich that you have. Yes. How do we then start going inside and being like, well, how do I determine if it's a sandwich? How do I determine the cost of eating the sandwich?

Marie Forleo 00:14:51  So I always because of my brain, I need mantras to keep me grounded and keep me sane and keep me also connected and rooted to my own wisdom. And one of them that has worked for me that I will offer up. Anyone can use it and take it and borrow it.

Marie Forleo 00:15:04  It's called clarity comes from engagement, not thought. Clarity comes from engagement, not thought. Most of us, we will not get that clarity. Sitting on our couch, ruminating, doomscrolling or doing hella shots of compare schlager, which is what I call that behavior that most of us experience in our lives when we see other people that we deem are better than us, ahead of us, whatever, whatever, whatever. And so the notion that clarity comes from engagement, not thought. How do we operationalize this? You start taking small steps towards that thing. So let me give you a practical example from my own world, where I got swept away in thinking that I should want what someone else had and they were friend. You know what I mean? It was like a colleague who was a friend. I was like. And it wasn't even like a, like a negative envy thing. It was like a positive excitement thing. So I remember I don't even know how many years ago it was, but a friend of mine, there was some like, jewelry thing happening.

Marie Forleo 00:16:00  I was like, oh, I would love some jewelry too. Like, it just seemed like such a fun collab and such a fun expression. And so I was super excited about it. And of course, like I am, I am a person who is. I think I'm a little gentler now, but in my super early days, like, I have that ability in me to be like a bull dog with a bone and I will not let something go. Like if if something gets set in this target and it's in my crosshairs, watch out. Oh my God. I'm like a bull in a China shop. Do you know what I mean? I will figure out. That's why I wrote that damn book to make it happen. So cut to now. I've got this jewelry thing happening. And by the way, and it was a lovely experience. There was nothing bad. However, in retrospect, I was like, Holy, you spent eight months, nine months. I don't know how many months devoted to making this thing come to life.

Marie Forleo 00:16:53  And from a pure or ROI perspective, like Marie Forleo, what were you thinking? The things I said no to, the things I deprioritized and I was like, girl, sit yourself down. You got caught up in a slipstream of chasing something that you thought you wanted to because, you know, a colleague or a friend had it and it was just like, was that the best use of your time? Like, listen, everything is a lesson. There were no mistakes, but I really cemented for myself how important it is for me to slow my roll when I get excited about something and really take the time to have some clarity, and I probably steamrolled through some little flags again, there was nothing bad that happened, but it was just like, was that really like, I made my team work, so I made so I created so much chaos.

Jasmine Star 00:17:43  So.

Marie Forleo 00:17:43  Good for and I and that's not the only time. But that's just a simple example.

Jasmine Star 00:17:48  But I want to say thank you for sharing a simple example because we learn through story.

Jasmine Star 00:17:52  Yeah. Because when you had said clarity comes from engagement not thought so. And I asked, well, how do we determine what's our litmus test. And then you said small steps towards the thing. Yeah okay. So we got that. But it's the story where you actually made yourself very vulnerable and said, hey, this was a great experience. Nothing went wrong with the experience, but oh my God, ROI. Now let's flip. Let's just say in this pretend world, the jewelry experience did seem favorable. It was a positive ROI in such a degree.

Marie Forleo 00:18:15  Yeah, I can give you the flip side. Okay, flip side. So this was way earlier in my career and I kept having this inner whisper this poll. This was probably when I was all of, I don't know, 24, 25. I had already began my kind of life coaching career, even though I thought it was absolute bonkers. Crazy that I was a life coach. Like, I didn't even live life yet, so I had all that mean girl happening in my head.

Marie Forleo 00:18:40  Sorry. By the way, I didn't ask if I could.

Jasmine Star 00:18:41  Can we guys, can we please. I want to be very clear here. Marie is using an example where she has like the self-talk that she experienced, but she had said being a mean girl, but I don't want you to hear the story and hear, oh well, she was a life coach and didn't have enough life experience. I want you to hear yourself saying, I want to be a chef, but I don't have the right knives and I want to be a painter, but there's just too many people who do it. And I want to build a skincare line. But how many people, how can I compete with Rihanna and Selena? Okay, so we just we're gonna be real. She's gonna be real. We have to hold a mirror up to ourselves. Because I got that mean girl sitting right here next to me, too. So I'm saying thank you for this, but we're going to set the record straight when she speaks.

Jasmine Star 00:19:15  Holding mirror to yourself. Yes. Okay.

Marie Forleo 00:19:18  And it was like, you know, I also people would ask me like, so what do you do. Because I was bartending. I was waiting tables at the time. I was doing all the things that you do to keep a roof over your head in New York City, because they ain't cheap to live here. While I was figuring out how to run a business, I was like, I don't know, I have no idea. And so when people would ask me what I did as a bartender, they would assume, I would say actor that, you know, something else. I was like, oh, no, here's my. And I would hand over my yellow legal pad for them to get on my email list to sign up for my newsletter, because that's what you did in 2001. Thank you anyway. But there was always something inside of me that knew I was not just one thing. Like only saying that I was a life coach and this is going to get to the answer.

Marie Forleo 00:19:58  So I will get there. But it's an important story. It's good. And I remember it just felt so limiting and it just felt like, well, I'm not just a bartender. That's my kind of day job. But I'm not just a life coach. Like I have all of these other interests and passions. And it was spirituality and it was business and it was money, but it was also dance and fitness. So probably since the time I was a little kid, I had dreamed of being a dancer, but I never had any formal training. I had never once gone to a formal dance class, and my experience relied basically on moonwalking against the linoleum kitchen floor in my mom's house. Like, do you know what I mean? And learning choreography and making it up. And so here I am at like 23, 24, 25, still harboring this secret dream to dance. And I'd been talking to myself about it for years. And of course, at that point in my life I was a huge party girl.

Marie Forleo 00:20:46  So I'm like dancing every night. And like, I used to win dance contest as a teen, but again, no technique, all passion. And so I say all this because I finally sat myself down because I was like, I can't just do this life coaching thing. It is too suffocating and I can't make a living just doing that. And my bartending and I did something so smart, I gave myself permission to go take a formal dance class like I had been taking, you know, dance fitness classes at crunch. But I was like, I'm going to go to BDC Broadway Dance Center, which was so intimidating. And I remember going there and it was terrifying, like I was 25, everyone else was like 16 or 17, you know? And that sounds like it. Not a big deal. But you feel like you're a grandma in comparison, right? And I'm watching people and they look so cool.

Jasmine Star 00:21:35  And I was like, hold on, I know you're a master storyteller. Yeah.

Jasmine Star 00:21:38  So you're getting ready to go to BCD? Yeah. Are you overthinking the outfit? Are you?

Marie Forleo 00:21:43  Oh, yeah. No, it was awful. Like, again, just a bucket of insecurity.

Jasmine Star 00:21:48  Do you, do you walk there? Do you take the subway? Like, talk to me. Oh, boy. So. Okay, well, you're talking to a California girl. I'm like, I want a picture. You're in the subway. You probably thought very calculating about this outfit you arrive at. Okay. Right. I mean, you got to. Please tell me. Please tell me. Was this, like, a scene out of, like, Legally Blonde, where you show up in a bunny outfit and everybody else is not?

Marie Forleo 00:22:06  I just I kept it simple as possible, but again, still, I felt. And I know it sounds ridiculous to be like 24, 25 over the hill, but there was because I was with teenagers who had been dancing since they popped out the womb.

Marie Forleo 00:22:18  Do you know what I mean? I was like, this is terrifying. Okay. And I remember, like, looking like, peering into the class and looking at the door and, you know, they're, like, just fierce. And I was like, are you going to back out? You can do this. Like, no, you're gonna do this. So next class on and I walk in and I like, stumble to the back of the room and like, the teacher comes in and she does not say a word. Like, there is no acknowledgement. I'm like, I am.

Jasmine Star 00:22:42  I'm like sitting right now.

Marie Forleo 00:22:44  I'm like, this is horrible. What? What? I'm so stupid. What I'm doing. And she like, you know, pumps on the, the, the beats or whatever, and everyone, like, instantly drops to the floor and starts like, doing stretching and singing and I'm like, holy, I got to sit, right? Just because everyone knew what was going on but me.

Marie Forleo 00:23:00  And I will tell you, Jasmine, the moment I just sat my butt on the floor and then started just, you know, mimicking the stretches. Thank God I have a lot of hair. I started weeping, crying so hard because it felt so right and it was like my soul was saying. You finally listened. And that was the beginning of me kind of starting this simple career as a dancer and as a fitness person, which eventually led to me becoming one of the world's first elite Nike dance athletes. It was a designation that literally never existed. That's a whole other story, but clarity comes from engagement, not thought. I had thought for years about whether I had what it took to do dance in any format, in any kind of professional setting. And I wasted so much time because I let it be a thought rather than actually tested it in real life outside of, you know, doing drinks and shots and college and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Jasmine Star 00:23:55  And moonwalking on the linoleum.

Marie Forleo 00:23:56  Yeah, of course, which is always useful. But so that's like the flip side of it. You know, when you start taking those steps, there is an alignment. You will get real world feedback, whether external feedback or more importantly, internal feedback that you are on your right path. You'll get information that cannot come from AI. It can't come from your friends. It can't come from social. It can't come from any other source. But you.

Jasmine Star 00:24:24  So we're in full on storytelling mode and I'm living for it. I'm living for it because it's just landing very different in my soul. And so when we think about these two examples yes. Positive ROI that didn't have like at least initially a penny towards you and then an ROI that maybe it was like it was good but not worth what it would have been in comparison. Yeah. So along the way and along our journeys, we're faced with these really terrible things that happen even when we're in alignment. Yes. And so you've seen this a lot through B-School.

Jasmine Star 00:24:53  You have tens of thousands of people go through a program to find how to build a business. And so I think that you have a very keen insight into what makes newish entrepreneurs succeed and those who don't. And we all start in the same way. Oh, there's a line divine calling and we're in alignment. Yeah. And then what do you get through when these times come? Because they do. And then secondly, what do you see makes or breaks people in the community that actually finish and go on to flourish?

Marie Forleo 00:25:18  So let's talk about the community aspect first and then come back to me and ask me whatever you want. So we've had over 80,000 people go through B-School, which blows my mind. And I think I think the resiliency, the ability to continue to we'll get really tactical. A lot of folks don't want to get specific at first. Like this is very, very practical about who their ideal customer or client is. And they resist that so hard. And I get it. You know, when I started my coaching business, I wanted to coach everyone on their dog.

Marie Forleo 00:25:50  I just you know what I mean? Like, I was happy to work with anybody who would be willing to give me an opportunity to contribute to them. So I got it. And I would always express that. I said, and I remember one of the first times I started really getting traction was when I wrote my first book, which was called Make Every Man Want You or Make Yours Want You More how to be so irresistible you'll barely keep from dating yourself. So was this tiny little relationship book. But because it was specific, solving a specific problem, it really allowed me to start getting traction, which then opened up a whole.

Marie Forleo 00:26:20  New.

Marie Forleo 00:26:21  World, right? But then when people start off, they often whatever they're doing, they're like, I'm a chef for everyone, or you know what I mean? I'm going to open a hair salon for everyone or whatever. And that is a beautiful notion. We love that impetus to want to take care of people. But from a marketing perspective, especially now, you know, you are talking about what do I see for this industry and moving forward? Where we are at in 2025? What I believe is winning the game are very specific problem solution oriented products and services very specific.

Marie Forleo 00:26:58  And for most people in the beginning, that is an extremely hard needle to thread. They don't want to leave people out. They don't want to limit who they reach. They don't want to limit their potential. And ironically, it's exactly the opposite. That's number one, I think. Number two, a lot of times along that same vein, people often choose, and this is coming from a very good, beautiful, honorable place. They'll choose people who cannot afford their products and their services to be their market. And then they're like, why are you why am I not making money? And then so when we unpack that so I'm like, so, you know, we talk about ideal customer avatar in B-School. It's a very big portion of the first bit of the program. And I'm like, y'all, I have to tell myself this to like underline, highlight, throw confetti at, make it glow. Ideal. Ideal means someone is able and willing to buy if they are not able and willing to buy, meaning that they don't have the capacity.

Marie Forleo 00:27:54  They don't have the resources, they don't have the time. They don't have the energy. That means they cannot be ideal by definition, because they're not going to be in alignment. And then of course, we go into all the different, very practical, actionable ways that you can still serve a market who may be underserved, who may be, oh my God, more deserving than anyone, but you are able to take care of them through your overflow by having the target, your ideal target for a for profit business. Again, we're talking in a for profit context, but you can do so many different gorgeous, creative, heart centered, generous things when you have that balance, right? So it's not an either or situation. It's more of a prioritization situation, and it's more of a strategic execution that allows you to take care of everyone, yourself, your ideal customers, and perhaps an underserved market from a very, very integris place.

Jasmine Star 00:28:49  Oh, she left no crumbs as a repeat. Did you all pick up what she put down? ICP your ideal client profile.

Jasmine Star 00:28:57  If you don't know who you serve, they will not know you serve them highly specific products and services for a highly specific group of people. And then number two, give it to me again.

Marie Forleo 00:29:06  Oh number two. Which one?

Jasmine Star 00:29:07  When we went through your ICP and then we went through, you got to serve a market. Who can buy what it is that you want? Despite how best intentioned, despite how best intention it is that your best intentions can be served once you make a profit, and then can serve wholeheartedly to a market who might not be able to pay what it is that you have. Absolutely. Did I see? I picked it up? I picked it up.

Marie Forleo 00:29:25  And there are so many different ways to do it. It's like you don't have to write million dollar checks. You can start super small, you can test things out. And then I've had this too, because I remember a big part of why I even wanted to start a business was, first of all, for me.

Marie Forleo 00:29:39  There were many different things embedded in that, but one of them was I was like, I mean, nice things are great, and I do love beautiful things, but I'm not anyone who knows me personally like my my director of operations. Sometimes. You know what? I know what she gets me for Christmas socks. Because. Yeah, because I she'll, like, see me when we're hanging out. Why do you have holes in your socks? I'm like, cause I don't give you about socks. Like, I just, I don't There's a lot of things that are just not high on my list of materialistic stuff.

Jasmine Star 00:30:05  Which it gives you socks. Do you feel loved?

Marie Forleo 00:30:07  Oh my God. Yeah, because she cares so.

Marie Forleo 00:30:09  Much about me. Do you know what I mean? She's just like, look. And it's so sweet. And she's looking out for me. And they're always cute and fun. Now, of course, I have so many socks. I don't do it myself. But my point is, was that I knew I wanted my business to make a difference beyond just what it could earn for me, beyond the impact that it could make for its customers.

Marie Forleo 00:30:27  Like, I wanted my little ecosystem to be a greater force for good in all kinds of ways. I remember when I first started asking myself this question, I was like, well, you know, and I was looking around and I was looking for inspiration and saw sometimes, you know, for example, like, Tony Robbins is a is a friend and a mentor of mine. And I remember he had like, fit America, you know, and it was like a very and it was so tied to one of his very specific, like core stories about when he didn't have enough food as a child. And folks showed up and were extremely generous, and he wanted to pay that forward. And so there's this integris alignment, right? I was like, but I can't. Same thing because I'm a multi passionate entrepreneur. This girl cannot stay in one lane. It's not how I'm built. It's not my DNA. I was like, but I don't want one charity or like I don't want one cause like.

Marie Forleo 00:31:12  So what I did and I recommend this, I was like, oh, I did campaigns like one of the first campaigns that I ever contributed to was a campaign that was aligned with the UN called Girl Up, and it was around empowering all of these incredible young women all around the world that didn't have access to education, not like most of us do here in the States. And so that felt super aligned with my heart, my soul, things that really lit me up. But it wasn't like I had to build the whole business around the Girl Up campaign. I could do an aligned initiative and activation and then we've built, I don't know, seven, eight schools with Pencils of Promise. We've done stuff around water like we've done so many different things. Malala. So there was this wonderful opportunity that there's not one right way to do it, you know. And so some people like a one for one model, or maybe there's a certain portion of the year where they have a particular sale or like they're literally infinite, infinite ways.

Marie Forleo 00:32:12  And you don't have to have a ton of resources. You don't have to have a huge platform. You don't have to have anything figured out. But if your heart's in the right place, there are simple strategies where it's like, yeah, you can make amazing money. Like every business owner, in my opinion, like your business, if you are a for profit business, you should design your business from the ground up to create financial freedom for you and anyone else you love. Like that's the potential there. So let's design it intentionally that way, and you can design it to have an extraordinary impact on people who will never touch your business. From a customer standpoint, does that make sense? Absolutely. So it's like this great creative opportunity to do whatever you wish, but you don't have to have limits and you don't have to do it in a particular way.

Jasmine Star 00:32:56  Okay. So two things. Yes. And I'm going to say them out first and we could decide where we go with them. So to go back to the original was what are the things that we see that get most people stuck.

Jasmine Star 00:33:06  And it was the ICP. And then it was like serving a market who, who can afford. And then we said we could still absolutely focus on very generous endeavors. Yes, with a lot of concentration. The more success we have, the more generous that we can be. And then I wanted to focus a little bit on what do you say to yourself when you find yourself getting stuck or what are the similar patterns? But there was another thing that popped up from there too, because I've heard you talk quite a bit about setting yourself up financially, and you love talking about money, and I love that you talk about that, because it's not so much that I see a lot of female, strong female entrepreneurs really unabashedly talking about it. So maybe that will dovetail nicely. Like what happens when you get stuck? What do you say to yourself? And let's talk about money.

Marie Forleo 00:33:43  First of all, so the stuck bit or the like I don't know, I always love to tell people this. It's like sometimes I want to say this very, very clearly out loud.

Marie Forleo 00:33:54  Some people have this notion or have this thought. They might look at you and think like, oh, you might never have any marketing challenges or know how to do. You know what I mean? Because you teach this stuff or social or whatever. You must know exactly how to execute everything. And I think for any of us, if we actually just sit down and get super honest, it is often way easier, probably for you to look at someone else's business. Oh 100 and be able to apply your genius and your experience and be able to help someone so fast, but it's often hard to turn that on ourselves. And that's where having colleagues and friends and community and mentors like that is so helpful. So when I get stuck and I get stuck, I mean, dude, I make so many mistakes. Like, you know, it's it is there's places where I'm like really good and my instincts are really great. And there's places like it's an experiment. Let's try it. Let's see. I go to friends, I go to smart colleagues.

Marie Forleo 00:34:51  I ask for help because I know it is impossible for me, to a very large degree, to take the genius that I have, which I'm very secure on, and turn it on myself very, very difficult. So when I get stuck, those are some of the things that I do. But in terms of internal self-talk, it's not bullshit. Everything is figured out like that is my sanity mantra. That is kind of my DNA. And I don't use that mantra or repeat it to myself in that I have to have the answers, just that there is a possibility for a transformation, a solution, a new way to look at something. And it's out there. And then I become like that little huntress that I want to either go find it, I'm willing to receive it. I'm open to pulling it in whatever methodology is right for the situation. That phrase, that DNA, that philosophy saves my every day. Not just in business, but in life.

Jasmine Star 00:35:43  I love that. So the two active takeaways since the show is you do want to pick up some stuff, actionable stuff is I won't be able to borrow your mantra, which is everything is figure out yes, and if you doubt it, you can definitely check out her book.

Jasmine Star 00:35:55  All major retailers that support our small book retailers. But if you're a Target and Amazon person, go right ahead as well to borrow that mantra, but also to ask and invite for insights from others. Yes, people that you trust. Okay, so there's somebody watching and be like, wow, that that's so brave of me. That's big of me. I can never ask somebody to give me insights like, I want to go there for that person. I have to overcome objections. What's something that somebody could say like, help, help me see the forest for the trees or what do you.

Marie Forleo 00:36:20  Well, okay, so this is so let's talk about it in a business context. This is why I think it's so critical that, like every stage of the game, I just I love humans, I love good people. And so I try and stay connected just to good people. As a legit friend, I think one of the things that's really challenging, particularly in our world, and this is true in any industry, but because I'm in this online world and I've been here for 25 years, I've seen a lot.

Marie Forleo 00:36:46  I am very discerning because there's a huge difference between actual friends, colleagues and then transactional folk. I'm allergic to transaction like legit allergic to it. I have a very strong body truth that runs my life, and my intuitive receptors are pretty open, and so I don't have a huge amount of people that I trust emotionally and with the business stuff, because I've just seen so much transaction over my career, and it's just not what I'm into. I think they're amazing people and I want them bless best for them, but it's not an energy alignment for me. So I have a handful of people that I feel super trustworthy with where I can give them a call and just be like, hey, I, I need an idea I can give you. There's a friend of mine. He's like unbelievably fantastic. He's one of my first marketing mentors, a guy named Dean Jackson. And, I can like texting and be like, dude, like, I want. Can I show you my campaign? Like, do you have an idea? You know what I mean.

Marie Forleo 00:37:48  Like, I'm feeling stuck around X, Y, or Z. I'm thinking this, but maybe this, like, what do you think? Like people who I know market with integrity. People who I know know my heart and soul. People who I know we have alignment in terms of like lifestyle values and like the important things just to get their hot take or get like, am I missing something? Like, what do you see in this? Does that make.

Jasmine Star 00:38:12  Sense? That make sense? And so I think if there's more, please. But I'm going to pause. And it's like what I hear is evaluate the trustworthiness for this person to speak into your life.

Marie Forleo 00:38:21  And then they have the expertise.

Jasmine Star 00:38:22  And the expertise was was part two. Is that is that the barometer and metric that you use. And then you just you just ask.

Marie Forleo 00:38:27  Yeah. And then whatever comes back. What's great for me, this is specific to me. Like if they suggest an idea and I even if I don't use it, it actually almost cements me in my own direction.

Marie Forleo 00:38:38  And they're always, you know, none of the people that I roll with are.

Marie Forleo 00:38:41  Like, if you don't do this, it's going to all fall.

Marie Forleo 00:38:43  Apart there. Like maybe try something like. Like, what do you think about this? Does this feel right? And be like, oh, not that, but this.

Jasmine Star 00:38:48  It confirms something. Correct. Good good good. And so we talked about the framework of asking for help and then borrowing your mantra. Thank you for sharing it generously. Thank you for creating a new multi-week New York Times bestseller in different international languages. But who are we to brag? Congratulations. Thank you. Congratulations. What an impactful book. It has changed so many lives in our last remaining time together. Yes. Let's talk about money. Yes.

Marie Forleo 00:39:12  I love.

Jasmine Star 00:39:13  Money. Where do you. What's being called? Since. Since you have that strong energy and that alignment, what's coming up for you?

Marie Forleo 00:39:18  So first of all, I think that all of us, myself included, just based on society, just based on our families, just based on the world that we live in right now, we have absorbed and been conditioned into so much conflict and pain and shame and agony around money.

Marie Forleo 00:39:38  We want it. We're told we're not supposed to want it. If you want more, You're so great. Like there's so much bullshit. And that's just in us. And it can. In my belief system, it is a powerful tool of healing. And so this is actually a little project slash products slash. It's probably going to be another book at some point. But ain't no rush. I really want people to ask themselves. So when I say I love money. Jasmine, I remember I was out on tour with everything Is figured Out and it was like, you know, like a Q&A session on tour. And a woman stood up and she was like, oh my God, can we we talk about figuring out money. I'm like, yes. And she asked me about her pricing or something like that. And I was like, okay, well, let's just start with the foundation that I love money. And I just watched like hundreds of people. It was like, is is God going to strike her down?

Marie Forleo 00:40:28  Like, oh.

Marie Forleo 00:40:29  She allowed.

Jasmine Star 00:40:30  To say.

Marie Forleo 00:40:30  That? Do you know what I mean? And then it was like, and then I heard the crowd shift and they.

Marie Forleo 00:40:33  Were like, yes.

Marie Forleo 00:40:34  And then I was like, literally say it right now. Like, I love money. And I made people repeat it. I was like, didn't that feel good? And they were like, oh my God, that felt so good. You don't love it over your values. You don't love it over your relationships. But what would happen if you poured the energy of unconditional love into and onto your financial life? How might that shift it, how you interact with it, how you take care of it, how you respect it, how you share it, how it comes in, how it comes out. It's just there's this notion that love is the solution to every problem. And if money is one of yours, it's the solution there too. So I love money, and I love especially talking to women about this, because I think it's not necessarily a gendered thing, but just because I have so many women in my audience, and that has been the majority of who I've had a chance to interact with over my career.

Marie Forleo 00:41:28  So I've gotten a kind of close up view on how we can all stop ourselves, like I still have. I still struggle with like, oh, can I ask for that? Am I worth That is it okay? That tells me how deeply we are conditioned that it's not. So I'll pause there for a moment, but I just I want every human on the planet to have a healthy relationship with money, because I've seen firsthand how destructive it can be. When you don't. The stress, it can cause the anxiety. You know, I'm going through this particular thing with with my folks, which I've talked about a lot. It's been a couple of years. Both my parents, God bless them. But they are older, they're in their 70s, and they're both in kind of massive decline in different ways at the same time. And bar none, it has been the most painful, difficult period of my life, without a doubt. And and it's just like and but we all go through it, right? Loss is a part of life.

Marie Forleo 00:42:26  Struggle is a part of everyone's life. You know, there are so many difficult things that we human beings will absolutely all of us will face and continue to face. It's like what we signed up for, I believe. And so I've just watched firsthand from my own family about how much a lack of handling money creates a level of chaos and fear and worry and stress and disease that I don't believe we have to keep moving forward like this. So that's why I get passionate about it.

Jasmine Star 00:42:55  So what? I know it's early and I know there's not a book yet, but like money is forgettable. Yeah like pre titles. Pre titles.

Marie Forleo 00:43:04  I love I love Money as the title because it's so offensive to some people.

Jasmine Star 00:43:07  It is. Yes I know you have a distinct feeling immediately.

Marie Forleo 00:43:10  I know and some people get super repelled by it, which is wonderful. And the people that I think that I'm meant to serve are like, wait, tell me more.

Jasmine Star 00:43:19  Oh yeah. Because you know your ICP, honey.

Jasmine Star 00:43:23  Yeah, you know your ICP.

Marie Forleo 00:43:24  Yes. And it's a celebration. And again, it's it's about the healing your relationship with it so that it no longer has to ever be a source of pain or shame or worry again. And it is not about a certain amount because everyone I think just like, you know, like I love animals, like chipmunks are going to eat less, generally speaking, than an elephant, right? They have different appetites because they are different creatures. They have different purposes. They have different ways to walk through the world. And I think money, it's the same thing. You know, like, I don't have any biological children, but I have a stepson who's about to get married, and I have other friends who have like a good jillion kids. So their appetite or need for it is going to be different than mine. And so the respecting of all those differences. So there's no prescription in how much if someone wants to. I'm just going to give loose examples for funsies.

Marie Forleo 00:44:10  Like I would love to have a business that earns me net, you know, $75,000 a year. And I want to live really simply. And then there's another person whose their appetite, their genuine vision for what they want to do is like 100 x that and they want to build a company in schools and lalalalala like, well, that's beautiful for them. I'm going to do pom pom like high kicks cartwheels for both of those expressions. If their money, life was in harmony. And I just feel like in terms of a larger societal thing, people would be so much more empowered around their health care, around education, around not being taken advantage of by predatory institutions or businesses. If they had this part of their life in a place where they felt clear and confident and secure.

Jasmine Star 00:44:58  So as we close, can we do a like a Babe Ruth, like you're going to point out into the stands and this is where we want to hit the ball, okay. What are like the four things that somebody at 3 or 4 I like three okay.

Jasmine Star 00:45:10  Let's do three. Let's do three things that somebody can do to start preparing for themselves. Because everything you say is yes, yes, yes. It's the lean in moment. Yes. So for the lean in moment, before the book is written, before anything else is created, point pointless.

Marie Forleo 00:45:23  Where one I would say to experiment. It is an invitation to adopt that mantra. You don't have to say it out loud because again, I know it can be a very triggering offensive phase phrase for some people. Just start like experimenting. Like what would happen if you allowed yourself like, yeah, I do. I love money, like I love it. Like how would it change? How would your relationship with your money life change then whenever you pay a bill? This is something that I started when it was like still writing checks, which of course most of us rarely do anymore. Now we're doing everything electronically. But still you are. You are transacting, right? When you are sending money out in some form.

Marie Forleo 00:46:00  Another mantra again, because of my ADHD brain. And it is it's also rooted in neuroplasticity, right? Repetition is a key principle of neuroplasticity. So whatever fires together wires together and you literally reshape not only your mind but your brain. That's science. I'm not making this up. It's not fiction, it's fact. So repetition works for me and for most of us. Here's what you say. Anytime money goes out and I know most of us like we can clench, right? It's like a little like. Like down there everywhere. It's like, oh, God. Wow, that was a lot. Or. Oh, I don't know if there's going to be enough. Here's the mantra. There's always more where that came from. There's always more where that came from. And then I think just it's not really a practical tip, but it's more of a truth. We've all been sold this lie that there is a limited pie, right? That there is a fixed amount of wealth in the world.

Marie Forleo 00:46:55  And somehow, if Jasmine you make more that somehow it means that I'm going to have less available. That is the biggest, most destructive, most toxic lie. And it is verifiably untrue. If you actually look at data and the amount of wealth, for instance, that existed in the world, let's say, 200 years ago versus the amount that exists now, you you would see over time that wealth is continuously being created. It's expanding. It's it's fluid that the, the notion that it's a fixed sum that we live in a zero sum world is one of the most destructive lies on the planet. So if you ever go there with your pricing or you ever find yourself feeling because like you're demonizing someone else because they quote unquote have more, or again, you're in a fear based place. Like, I can't charge that because I'm taking away from someone. You have to know that underneath that is a lie. So to just bring gentle, compassionate awareness to it and to really, really, really educate yourself in in reality, I think that's another piece.

Marie Forleo 00:48:03  And again, I know we can't unpack it fully, but it's it's super helpful.

Jasmine Star 00:48:06  Give me a mantra because I got to complete it. Like I'm like, I'm like a bulldog with a bone.

Marie Forleo 00:48:10  Well, there's.

Marie Forleo 00:48:11  Always more where that came from. And maybe it could be there's more than enough for everyone.

Jasmine Star 00:48:16  I'm writing it in my notes. I love my stuff, but it's at least I love it. I love this. Yeah. Okay. Repeat after me. I love money. I love money. Repeat after me. There's always more where that came from.

Marie Forleo 00:48:26  There's always more where that came from.

Jasmine Star 00:48:28  And there's enough for everyone.

Marie Forleo 00:48:30  There's enough for everyone.

Jasmine Star 00:48:32  Marie Forleo, thank you for being here. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for sharing your genius. Thank you for proving to us that everything is forgivable, even on the fly. I help you.

Jasmine Star 00:48:41  To the fire, and you're like, I don't burn. I don't burn.

Jasmine Star 00:48:45  Where do people go to learn more and stay connected with you?

Marie Forleo 00:48:47  So we've got hundreds of episodes of Marie TV.

Marie Forleo 00:48:51  If you like YouTube, you can just go to Marie Forleo, The Marie Forleo podcast, anywhere you get your podcast on all the socials, it's at Marie Forleo and then Marie for.com is the website with all the good stuff.

Jasmine Star 00:49:04  Thank you. For those of you who enjoyed and watched the show, send Marie a DM or tag us on Instagram. Absolutely. The things that we do. I'm so thankful that you were here. I'm so thankful that I got to experience you in the city, on the one of the five days that you happen to be here before you escape. Thank you. Y'all, thank you for watching and listening to the Jasmine Star Show.