The Sugar Show

Protecting Your Sweet Business: Trademark Tips with Joey Vitale

• Shannon "The SugarMama" • Season 6 • Episode 8

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Trademark attorney Joey Vitale returns with game-changing news for sugar professionals looking to protect their businesses in an increasingly competitive marketplace. Since our last conversation, the legal landscape has transformed dramatically, creating both new challenges and powerful opportunities for beauty business owners.

The digital revolution has made starting a business easier than ever, but this accessibility has created unprecedented challenges for legitimate entrepreneurs. Joey reveals how AI tools like ChatGPT often provide misleading legal advice, guiding users toward solutions they want to hear rather than legally sound approaches. For sugar professionals navigating trademark waters, this underscores the vital importance of expert guidance.

The most exciting revelation? Google has introduced a blue verified checkmark feature in Gmail that gives trademarked businesses a significant marketing advantage. Only companies with registered trademark logos can access this verification, which helps ensure emails consistently land in primary inboxes rather than spam folders. This represents a seismic shift in how digital platforms are beginning to recognize and reward legitimate businesses through trademark registration.

Joey also shares invaluable insights about strategic naming for beauty businesses. Rather than selecting obvious industry terms (which are likely already trademarked), successful brands are increasingly choosing distinctive, unexpected names that allow for memorable visual identities. This approach not only improves trademark availability but creates more distinctive branding that stands out in a crowded marketplace.

Whether you're just starting your sugaring business or looking to protect an established brand, this episode offers concrete strategies for navigating the complex world of trademarks. Joey outlines multiple pathways to protection, from DIY approaches for those on tight budgets to comprehensive legal services for businesses ready to invest in full protection.

Ready to take your sugar business to the next level? Discover why trademark protection has evolved from a legal precaution into a powerful business advantage that can transform how customers find and interact with your brand.

Joey Vitale's Book: Legally Legit. https://a.co/d/gqwnnyF

Free Call Page: www.indielaw.com/call  (If you mention Shannon or the Sugar Show podcast and move forward, they’ll get $300 off any package)


If you’ve connected with or been inspired by this episode in any way, leave us a review and let us know your biggest takeaway - I’d love to hear how you embrace Sugaring For All!! And while you've got your phone out, make sure to follow us on Instagram @Love2Sugar.

If you are interested in our business planner you can find the SugarBoss Planner here --->https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/love2sugar

The link to our Monthly SugarBiz Blueprint: https://www.love2sugar.com/offers/cMhp76LA/checkout

Cheers to your Sweet Success!

Speaker 1:

Joey is back. I'm so excited. I'm excited too. So much has changed. Is the same, is so much exciting stuff. Since last time we spent time together on this podcast I'm besides the fact that I just think you're the coolest dude ever, I also so much has happened in the world. You know, last we spoke was in COVID, on the show, and so much has changed. We had the first ever sugar conference, which I'm so excited about, that our industry put together and it was all sugar companies and sugar pros and people who wanted to be sugars which I know is not your world, but I kind of wish it was though.

Speaker 1:

I know right. Well, you can come get sugar, joey Great, or send your wife in, anyway. So we so what? My presentation at SugarCon was about the future of sugaring, and we I have a sugar bot now. It's so cute Little tiny sugar bot. And. And so we were talking about AI and as it relates to the future of sugaring. Right, because there's lots of new innovations in our products, but we have to really be savvy about the future of our businesses, and so we talked about AI. We just talked in general about prompts and how they can help businesses, but let's dive a little bit deeper as it relates to the legal piece, and I mean, we weren't even talking about AI last time I talked to you. So get us up to speed on AI as it relates to our businesses and what we have to be looking out for.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I will say that I have so many things that I love about AI. I am definitely a power user in our ChatGPT account and it's interesting because who knows what AI is going to look like 10 years from now, 12 months from now, next week, exactly. But I do want to report on the current state of AI as it is to legal, because I, you know, I myself am going to ChatGPT and asking questions, saying, okay, you're a board of advisors, you're my PR expert, you're my XYZ, what do you recommend that I do? Yeah, and one thing that very much still appears to be the case is that chat GPT, specifically in AI in general, really tries to give you the answer that you're wanting to hear, and so a lot of times, with the legal side, there's this sense of like hey, I want to do this, like, is it allowed? And when you ask questions in that way, then Chad GPT tends to make up loopholes.

Speaker 1:

You're so smart sugar mama. Yes, you absolutely can.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, and I think there's also so much bad information online about the law and specifically about trademarks, that when AI is scraping all of that data, they're not looking just to what attorneys have said on the topic, sure, looking just to what attorneys have said on the topic, sure. And as we've talked about Shannon, in so many ways, trademark law goes against common sense and against what you think would be the case, and so sometimes, if you're even kind of getting your terminology or vocabulary wrong when you ask it stuff, it might tell you something that is actually okay. I see that, all that being said, that was one of the huge reasons why I wrote the book that I wrote legally legit. So this is a oh man, uh, 200 ish page book that, uh, in a lot of, is like, if you liked the podcast episode that Shannon and I did, this is number one podcast, Joey.

Speaker 2:

Amazing.

Speaker 1:

One sugar show. Apparently, sugar pros need legal advice. They want to be legal strong in their business, which is why we're bringing you back. So kudos to you for making number one in the sugar show podcast and let's do it again. Let's be honored. Yes, yeah, let.

Speaker 2:

And let's do it again. So honored, yes, yeah, let's see if we can beat it. So this book is a really great compliment to that podcast episode. This book covers everything from LLC formation contracts to trademarks. Just by getting the book, you get a free copy of my contract templates.

Speaker 1:

Oh so really easy.

Speaker 2:

no brainer option yeah.

Speaker 1:

But we're going to link to that in the show notes that everyone has access to it.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, great. So question about that's that's the big thing that we're looking at is like we know people are using it, we know business owners are using it and you still have to be very careful and make sure that you're getting a second opinion. We actually just recently added language into our client contracts or engagement letters that say hey, if you are using this stuff AI, chat, gpt please send us anything that you're any responses that you're getting, that that you're taking action on um, so that we can can help recommend. You know what's worth following and what's not worth following.

Speaker 1:

Because I imagine for some folks it's two o'clock in the morning. They're worried about what they can do. You know they need to sleep at night, like they're going to just jump on chat real fast and be like is this possible? You know, is this trademarked which is fine for like that, that kind of top surface level curiosity?

Speaker 2:

Sure.

Speaker 1:

A lot of people are just curious about an you know question and they don't want to pay a lawyer $200 to tell them yes or no initially.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

I think audience you need to really hear. That's fine for the initial curiosity, but not for the action and the reaction and the facts. So it's really really critical. Joey, I'm sure you're seeing all the time that people are trying to like kind of diagnose themselves before they call you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I love that you talk about that in terms of diagnosing themselves before they come to us. Because, shannon, you and I have talked before about that free trademark database that exists online. I think since we talked, they've had a major update to that online tool and so in some ways, it's now easier to use that platform to search for what trademarks are available and what aren't that platform to search for what trademarks are available and what aren't. But because it's gotten so good at finding potentially similar marks, it can also be very confusing to look at. Before the database got an update, if I searched for Indie Law, only my trademarks would come up. Now, if I run a search for Indy law, like thousands of results pop up that are all kind of similar but they don't exactly say Indy law, and so it's becoming harder to know, okay, what's too similar and what's not.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because I think a lot of people think, oh, let's take my name sugar mama, it's trademarked. You helped me do that, thank you. And there's a lot of people that say, oh well, I spell it different. Oh well, I put, you know, the in front of it, or apostrophe S, or it's Sugar Mama body care or something you know, and let's talk a little bit about that as someone's kind of doing their initial research. We talked about this in the first podcast, but that was quite a while ago.

Speaker 2:

This is one of the number one things that I want to communicate with business owners, so I'm glad you bring it up. Yeah, you're right and I get it. Business owners and people in general, we've gotten used to what I call domain name thinking. Yeah, where, if the domain name is taken, we make one of those slight tweaks that you talked about an S at the end, a the at the beginning, a descriptive phrase at the end of it. That might be enough to get you, but it's not seen as distinctive enough for the trademark office to give you the trademark. And there are tons of examples. It's actually the most common reason for an application to get refused is because it's seen as too similar, and the question is not are these marks it's? Could a customer that is really familiar with one of the brands see the other one and think that there might be a common source or relationship between the two?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about kind of timing of a trademark, because I think some people feel as though they got in and got the trademark right but someone another company might've had it for the name for 30 years in business Like. Talk to me a little bit about like yes.

Speaker 2:

It's so. It's so backwards logistically in so many ways, but the way that it works is, technically speaking, the first brand to claim that business name, that logo, that slogan owns the trademark, regardless of who filed first or who got it registered first. But when you get your trademark registered, it gives you really strong evidence of ownership and so, practically speaking, the sooner you get a registration for your trademark, the more easily you can play defense if your branding rights ever get called into question.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. And how easy is it? Well, it's easy, as a relative term, right. How easy is it to, like, fight for your trademark once you've spent all that time and money getting it and you've really cultivated your brand, and then someone comes on the scene with a similar name and is just using it without doing their due diligence? You know, like, is it becoming a little bit easier to stand up for yourself, you know, and say, oh no, this is my trademark. Um, how are you seeing any changes in that? Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2:

It's significantly easier to defend yourself when you have those registrations in place. Even then they don't enforce themselves. And so we are always working with businesses small brands, big companies to get clear with them. Okay, if you put your ego to the side, what is the measurable cost and impact of this copycat existing? Because it's one thing for us to send cease and desist letters usually if they are an accidental infringer, a good person, they'll. They'll see that and they will apologize profusely and change their name. But if they're a bad actor, if they're an intentional copycat, if they just say screw you, then you do have to take additional legal steps. That cost time and money and energy. And so before I just take my client's money to do those enforcement steps, I make sure that there is a good business reason for us doing that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, I think people this starts to feel really overwhelming. But this is doing business folks and a lot of sugar pros are solos. They just, you know, maybe have started their own treatment room, like the one I'm sitting in, and they this is their only space and they figure out nobody will notice. And then they work hard and do all this branding and they realize, oh my gosh, I never checked to see if someone trademarked this sweet name, this sugary name. And Joey and I are here to tell you please look it up, please work with someone to make sure that your name is protected, because that's so much investing and your town might know you as that name and you have to change it and that would really be a bummer for your business. So we shouted at the rooftops this is why you need to have a trademark right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, and there are, as of this year, new reasons why it's more important than ever to get trademarked and how it really gives your business a distinctive advantage in the marketplace.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you wouldn't tell me what that was before we push record. You said I want you to wait and I want to see your reaction. So, Joey, the question is what is changed and what is the future as it relates to trademarks that we have not heard from you yet and that you have discovered?

Speaker 2:

So I'll just set the context here. Okay, Earlier this month I went to a business coaching conference. Sharon and I both love James Wedmore. I went to one of his events.

Speaker 1:

Shout out to James.

Speaker 2:

We love James.

Speaker 1:

Love him.

Speaker 2:

And there was an entire session dedicated to a problem that a lot of business owners are having, which is you sending emails to your customers or your audience and it landing in their spam. Okay and low open rates, low click rates, and it's getting harder than ever for you to send emails to people knowing that it's going to end up in like their primary inbox. What if I told you that getting trademarks would allow you to always show up in your customers, in your audience primary inbox? It's happening Okay.

Speaker 1:

Hold on, let me wrap my brain around that. So I have a trademark on the sugar mama. So if I send out emails now, if I have what, what does it take? What does it take for me to?

Speaker 2:

right, so here's how this works. Okay, gmail now has a blue verified check mark feature and if you look closely in your own inbox, you might even see now that certain big companies have this blue mark next to it, similar to facebook and instagram and everything else about getting that verified check. But google has done something different and they've said inside google if you want this verified mark, the only way to get it is to trademark your logo.

Speaker 1:

That's incredible.

Speaker 2:

So now, if you have your not just business name but business logo trademarked and registered, then it allows you to get certain certificates online showing that you're a special type of verified business. And once you set this up properly, then not only you, but everyone on your like email workspace team all of the emails that you get sent out will have that blue verified mark and it'll it'll force your emails to go to their principal primary inbox that's huge.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's brilliant really. Thank you. Technology right like before. It was like why get a trademark? Who cares? It has a little R. You can always put TM and fake it, Like you know, like.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I love that I'm talking to a pro, but, shannon, why I love this so much is everyone and their great grandma is starting a business right now and there's such saturation in the space that platforms and vendors like Google and Facebook are trying to figure out how can we give preferential treatment to the more legitimate brands that are out there and they're looking to trademarks to say prove your legitimacy Awesome. To say, prove your legitimacy, that's awesome. So it's no longer about high follower counts or who's an influencer or who knows the right person in Facebook to rub shoulders with for them to give you the badge. It's no, we're going to look to trademark registrations for proof of you not being a spam business.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. Thank you to those of us who've been doing it by the book this whole time.

Speaker 2:

I know right.

Speaker 1:

It pays to be a good person who follows the rules.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but not only that. Now it's such a great marketing advantage. I mean, yes, it takes money and time to get your logo trademarked, to go through these different certification processes, to get everything uploaded with Gmail and, like your website, dns settings, but if this now gives you a hundred percent rate of your emails hitting people's inbox, it's so worth it.

Speaker 1:

Game changer Cause how many, I mean? In the past, we're like how do we get these rates up, how do we get it so our stuff doesn't go to spam? You know, you try every little trick under the sun and then everybody else tries the same tricks and then they get exactly junk also. So this is huge and, you know, I think it really helps people to understand, like, the importance of it and that this is really a business. This is part of the cost of doing business. It isn't just throw a sign in front of your store and you can be whoever you want. You know this is hey, there are steps that you have to take in business and now it's being recognized. Like that is so key, yes, so key. Like that is so key, yes, so key. I love this. So what else?

Speaker 2:

What else? Tell me what else. Well, that was the number one thing that I wanted to share it's. I just think that that is a really big sign of a new wave that's going to happen with you know, we talked about AI earlier. It's not just everybody is starting businesses. It's like they're being mindful of AI companies popping up and a real flood of people's inboxes and launch a business, and we have all of these tools that didn't exist five or 10 years ago that make it easier for people to enter into the market space. But taking these steps of legitimacy whether it's trademarks or other things are things that not every business owner is willing to do, and so it allows you to more easily get to that next stage yeah, I could literally talk about this for hours.

Speaker 1:

I do have a question that I haven't asked you yet and it's not on our, wasn't on our planned list. I was at um a party the other night and a friend of mine writes music and created a banging song. That is amazing. All ai, it's AI, like everything's AI. And then I was thinking about my own course courses, my own trainings, and literally anyone can just copy my voice and copy my face and they can, you know, somehow, magically and mystically, shannon will be, you know, teaching some sugar class she never, ever, taught before. Do trademarks help with that? I mean, gosh, like, that's just like this abyss of like. Who do you go after? Right, I guess you have to try to figure out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, so that's less of a trademark issue than potentially a copyright issue. Yeah, so that's less of a trademark issue than potentially a copyright issue. I do think that it's going to be a while before courts rule on specific issues of what's allowed and what's not, but it's interesting to look at platforms and vendors and see the way that they are handling AI stuff. And so, for example, if you go to Amazon their like self publishing tool to publish a book, it'll ask you you know, was this book written completely without AI? Was it just completely written with AI? Or was it written with SC, with ai's help, but like, improved and revised with the human?

Speaker 1:

okay good you know, because so many people like you know. Oh, you wrote legally legit. Is it chat gpt?

Speaker 2:

I know, I know, um. I will say, though, that, uh, and and you might already know this, shannon, but there, there is a sneaky setting inside of chat gpt where, if you don't know to turn it off, it will um use that to help others. So, um, indie law as well as, like you know, any type of content planning that I'm doing I want to make sure that I'm not just giving others in my space great stuff that chat GPT will give them in the future, so I make sure that I turn off that setting, so that chat GPT as a whole isn't like learning from what I give it.

Speaker 1:

So incredible, just what we're seeing. Are you seeing I think you're going to see a flood now that we're back on the air with you but are you seeing beauty people coming into your space, like there was a push when we first started, right, because we talked about it a lot and are you seeing beauty people? And, if not, like, what's the, what's the message to the beauty world if they're not really trademarking their businesses, right?

Speaker 2:

Like yeah, the trend that I'm seeing, that I'm excited about, is the beauty industry that I've seen is starting to do what other industries are doing that I'm seeing, which is there are more and more like really weird names that are popping up. Shannon, I can't remember if I gave you this example in the past when we talked, but, like, if you go to a restaurant or a microbrewery and you look at their different beer options on the menu, they have the weirdest names, right, and that's not just them being creative companies, it's they legally have to come up with such outside-of-the-box names so that they don't get hit with a cease and desist letter with any of the names of the beers. And I think we're starting to see people in the beauty industry wake up to that reality as well and very intentionally say I'm going to come up with a name that is really hard for anyone else just to think of in the space yeah, because sweet taken, sugar taken right mama taken, like you know all these names purple kangaroo probably not taken right, but quiznically sweet or something.

Speaker 1:

you know like nobody knows the word quiznically is. You know, I just made it up, but you know, like you almost have to really be thinking that way so that you can yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, and what we're seeing that is really exciting is sure, there are people that just come up with like, made up names, and there's a whole marketing difficulty that you then have because, like, no one can spell it correctly, no one knows what it means.

Speaker 2:

But we're, we're starting to increasingly, uh, work with very cool brands, and I want to give an example so I'm not calling anyone out, but like what only you just like have always been resonating with like okay, and then heat, or there's a a certain type of national park that you love, or your spirit animal is a koala or something. Koala sugar and company. But they come up with some word that has that also kind of makes sense as a sugaring space, and then their, their whole brand, has that visual of koalas or bears or whatever, and so it's um, I mean we're. We recently helped a company I won't give the the industry but they picked Tortoise as their brand name, and even though the name Tortoise has nothing to do with the product that they sell, it allows them to really lean into this visual in a cool way, and so they're the only turtle themed business in their space.

Speaker 2:

Okay, fair enough um, and even though that might not make a um a lot of like cute or clever sense, as you're building up your marketing um, there are tons of opportunities for you to lean into that and and know that over time, when people think of that flavor, of a brand, they're going to think of you. And I mean, what are the chances that someone else is going to randomly come up with that, unless they're intentionally trying to copy you, right?

Speaker 1:

I love that. So we need to start thinking out of the box and not just sweet names and sugary names, but something you know palm tree, tree sugaring or I don't know well.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I'm thinking like there could be like a okay sugar sweet. Could there be like a candy or a chocolate sugar, but you lean into other things that are sweet.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, and it'll be easier to find your trademark, it'll be easier to protect yourself, it'll be easier to theme it, yeah, or even like salty, like our name is salty and we're a sugaring company, right, like there are.

Speaker 2:

There are, I think there are just cool, like memorable things that are distinct but still, and and that's where there's still an infinite number of trademarks available yeah, yeah so, joey, help the audience to understand.

Speaker 1:

so they've. They've decided on'll just use Koala, Koala sugaring company, just because that's the term you used. I don't even know if there is one, Cool. And they decide okay, I really want to open my own little sugar room. You know, I'm, I'm just a mom and pop little, just me. How important is it for that person to get a trademark early and now? And kind of what are, like, the broad steps to make that happen? Like, how can you be of help to them? Not like the. You know you teach a course about this, but you know what are the kind of broad things that they should be doing from? I just laid awake at night and realized I want it to be Koala Sugar and Company, and then now what? What's the next step for them? I want it to be koala sugaring company, and then now what?

Speaker 2:

What's the next step for them? It's a good question, shannon and I say this with all of the love and empathy that I can muster For it to stay small and tiny, and just you, then there's probably a lot to do, because, at the end of the day, if stuff gets thrown at you, if you receive a Like, there's not a real large cost to it, and so I want you to aim higher and build a business and a set of assets that are actually at risk of protection.

Speaker 1:

Hail that. I mean, you never know. That was kind of where I was leading you to. You know, at the end of the day, like I was just one little person, I was the sugar mama in upstairs on Sutter street in Folsom, like I was the mom of two small children. I didn't know it would be this whole big thing, like I had no idea I'd be on stage speaking and doing all that, right, and if I didn't protect myself then then you know I it's. I've been doing this for 16 years, right, that's a lot of ground to cover. So even start now. Dreamer of koala sugaring company. You know, yeah, yes, you never know.

Speaker 2:

And I would say start now, regardless of what that start now means. If you're understandably on a budget, totally fine. You do not have to work with a law firm. As Shannon knows, we have a DIY trademark course. My book has lots of step-by-step instructions on what you can do if you want to do it on your own, but don't think that it has to be so expensive that you can't move forward with it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and take the steps, go ahead I mean you definitely I will say I don't want them to skip the step of at least making sure that no other koala sugaring exists. At least look, right, like. At least start with that, Then you can at least sleep at night and go okay, I'm not picking. Somebody else had dreams of koala sugaring company, right, yes. So at least start with checking out to see if it does have a trademark already. Then you're not picking yourself and go, okay, this thing's been around for 10 years before me Like duh. Why didn't I look? You know you've got to at least start with that.

Speaker 1:

And then you know, save your money If you can't afford you know the, the filing fees and such just save your money each month and get to a place where you're getting bigger and it's really smart to to lock down that name and then, okay, so they're getting a little bit bigger, they can afford a trademark. What's kind of the big picture thing they do? Do they just start searching or do they contact you?

Speaker 2:

So there's a DI, a work with an expert route and a middle cheap route that you probably don't want to use. So I do want to be transparent that there are options like LegalZoom out there. We just transparently fix a lot of their messes. There are reasons why those types of services are so cheap and it's because you get what you pay for. So I would much rather see business owners.

Speaker 1:

If you're going to pay a company that just forms, that fills out a form for you, then just fill out the form yourself but I did, I did, I did your course and I did it myself, and then I got some assistance from you just to make sure I was doing it right. And that was easy, yeah, and done the right way. So okay, so you want them to check in, do the DIY course? Just got to see what you know, if they can do it themselves, and if there's something that's a little you know, more tricky, then can they call your company, like how does that work?

Speaker 2:

You can always reach out to us after you've purchased the course. If you purchased the course and we will be happy to credit what you paid for the course to our one-to-one packages.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know what. It's so worth just doing it the right way the first time. Y'all it is so worth it, and then you have that peace of mind, you know. I mean no one has contacted me and said you know you must cease and desist, because they know that I'm actually the one with the trademark. So I can sleep at night knowing that I've done the right thing, you know, by my business um, which is really great, and now I've even. I'm even more excited that I did it the right way, because now I will be first in the inbox. I will be, I will. Isn't that awesome? It's brilliant. I don't know if you know, told the powers that be. You should do it be a trademark, but clearly Right.

Speaker 2:

No, I I'm. I'm just as a, not just a trademark attorney, but as like a brand protection strategist. It's very cool for me to see companies like Google looking to trademarks to gauge the legitimacy of the brands that are working with those platforms.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love it. Joey, your book is going to be in the show notes. All the ways to get in touch with Joey are going to be in the show notes. Leave comments. Y'all Like this is how we do this. We could even get on an Instagram live, joey and I together, right Like we didn't have that back in the day, really like they do now, you know. And so ask the questions. Ask the questions in our community, our sugar tribe community. Ask these questions and Joey can jump in and answer them. And because we want to make sure that you are the smartest, sweetest sugar pros that you possibly can be, and our job is to make sure that you learn the right way so that you can protect yourself not only with strong skills in sugaring, but also with legal protections and being strong in your business as well. So, joey, as always, it is so fun to hang out with you.

Speaker 2:

Same. Oh, I'm so glad we found the time, Shannon.

Speaker 1:

I know, I know and again ask Joey any questions that you like. We will make sure that they get answered and hopefully we will have maybe another update podcast in the relatively near future.

Speaker 2:

At this rate. Probably.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, awesome. Just send them back and share with us the cool stuff.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Shannon.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, Joe.