8. What's the Rush?

Is Rush a legendary rock band or just a Canadian addiction? In this week's episode Mike (our resident Canadian and Rush evangelist) attempts to convert his sceptical co-host from Rush ignoramus into a genuine appreciator, if not a fully signed-up cult member. Join us as Mike takes us through the Rush story and plays some of their 'iconic' tunes. Allegedly.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Good afternoon, Danny. Good afternoon. Is it the afternoon? It is the afternoon. It is the afternoon. So today, what are we talking about? Well, I mean, this is a I don't know what we're doing today. Is this an intervention on your part? Or I mean if if it is an intervention, are you intervening on me or am I on you?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

I mean I think I think I would say more of an initiation. And I'm gonna uh embra you know bring you into the cult.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

This well this this feels like a global thing we're doing here. I feel like the world is divided between Canada and everybody else. On this one topic. On this one topic. I disagree. I disagree. I think it's look for. Of course you do. You're part of the cult.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah. Yeah. So today what I wanted to do was introduce Danny to one of my all-time favorite bands, um, and they actually warmly embraced that that moniker themselves. You know, um I've I've heard a being your favorite band. No, uh the the cult status. Oh, right, right. So um I've heard Getty Lee actually say um, you know, he considers themselves as the world's largest cult band. And I think when you actually look at the history of it, it makes sense. Now the band we're talking about, since I haven't said it yet, is Rush. Yes. Um what's the rush?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

I feel like I'm here to represent everybody who's not Canadian. I feel like everybody who's not Canadian, especially in the music circles, are like those guys are obviously amazing musicians, but we just don't want to listen to them. We just don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

And I think that's a very common criticism. Yeah. Um, and that's even one our our friend Matt shares as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Is that right? Yeah. But he's Canadian.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

I see it's not, it's universal. It is not universal. No. It's um actually I think they're they're quite a divisive band in Canada. And I think they are interesting. And I think part of that is because of Getty Lee's vocals.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Um I always kind of think of it almost as like Brussels sprouts, either you know, you can tolerate it and you like it, um, or you can't and you don't.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I was thinking of it more like pencils in your eye.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

You know, they've definitely heard uh I've I've seen so many funny little snippets and stuff of like critiques of the band. Yeah. Oh man, it's it quite quite colourful some of the commentary and um metaphors people come up with to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

But I should say, before we go much further, that I actually haven't listened to hardly any rush. So I'm coming into this completely uh ignorant and I'm new and I'm open-minded and I'm ready to be converted as long as the cult is good enough. Join the cult. I'm curious, I I th I imagine that there's obviously something to do with it being part of Canadian culture and what you grew up with, and you know you've been desensitized to the voice somewhat and I'm sure that's part of it. Um perhaps it's a version of Stockholm Syndrome. I want to add the disclaimer that I love Canadians, I love Canada, nothing is said in in with any ill intent, but um we do need to figure out what the hell is going on with Rush.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah. Well, if I can give you the Cole's notes, um power trio, one of I think the greatest power trios of all time. Um the sound that they get with just a three-piece band, you know, guitar, bass, and drums, it's pretty incredible. Uh formed uh Rush, as we all sort of know it, is uh Getty Lee on keyboards, um bass, guitar, and lead vocals, Alex Lifsen on guitar um and backup vocals, and Neil Peart on drums in the rhythm section. Yeah. Um that wasn't the first iteration of the band. Uh when they first started, it was really um Alex and Getty. That was sort of you know their brainchild. They were um close childhood friends, um, both from working class families. Uh Getty Lee actually came over, his his family were Holocaust survivors, um, came over with, you know, ten dollars in their pocket and built themselves up to sort of lower middle class.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

I thought Getty wasn't actually in the very first lineup. No, he was. Okay, I just quickly looked up Wikipedia. And the main reason why I did, because I know I wasn't allowed to research anything for this, but I just wanted to make sure that I knew who the hell you were talking about. Because the other day you said Giddy Lin, I was like, who's that?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

So he's only the best bass player of all time. He's coming in hot. He's I mean, obviously I'm I'm you know, um poking the bear a little bit, but he is incredible. I think when when you when you hear some of the examples of his playing, um while remembering that he was doing that, also playing like basically those, you know, I can't remember what they're actually called, but those like floor sort of bass keyboard things with the with the triggers, yeah. Um doing that and keyboards and singing all at once, um basically moving his mic around with his his uh two can sand nose.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Possibly part of why he struggled with his voice, because he's distracted.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

I don't think so. I think I think that's just his voice. Um I don't think he struggles at all. I think he he hits some incredible notes.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

By the way, is it is it Neil what how did you pronounce it? I thought it was Neil Peart.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

So did I for the first probably 25 years of my life and uh realized uh maybe five or six years ago that that was not the case.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

So you're saying peart? Peirt. Uh like ear.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Like if you say ear with a P and a T. Peart.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Doesn't work for Kiwis because we never say the R. So it's just Pete. It says PET. We just pet.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Makes it extra tricky. But that's uh it's very commonly re you know, he's very commonly referred to as Pert. Um and that was definitely what I called him for a large majority of my life. Um but yeah, it is Neil Peerd.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Okay, so just to derail you slightly, if there was an alternate universe where we had a band, where we had Rush and didn't have Getty Lee, but it was fronted by I don't know, someone else. It wouldn't be Rush. Sure. Not disputing that, but would do you think they would have gained as much controversy? Like is it just Petty who's the center of the controversy?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Uh probably to be honest. Um it is very divisive. Uh his vocals are very divisive, but I you know, it's it's kind of like we we've mentioned this before, like, you know, Ringo's the perfect drummer for for the Beatles. I can't really picture anyone other than Getty. Um the vocals just with the songs, um, with with some of the the lyrical content and the thematical stuff that they do, um, it just it works really well if you are okay with it and if you actually put in the time to invest it.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Um which is why it's one of those things where it does become so divisive where you sort of have a little bit of an in-group and an out group, people that that enjoy it and can listen to it and really kind of break, you know, get into the the heaviness of the music and and the the themes and the lyrics, um, there's a lot to explore there. But uh if you can't if you don't enjoy that that vocal and and you can't get to the next stage, well, you're never gonna experience that.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

So and is the is the uh controversy in Canada um quite extreme? Like is that love or hate pretty much? Or is it kind of a lot of indifference?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Um I nowadays it feels like there's a bit of indifference because we've heard so many of the songs. Like they have a lot of really anthemic songs that that that get played in commercials and and get played in um, you know, uh different I'm trying to think of the the right word, but um you hear it in the sort of in the Zeitgeist and and in the pop culture quite a bit, even though they were um never critically acclaimed, um always always on the outside. Right. Which is also kind of what I think is so special about them, as they are a band that survived on just hard work, um, incredible musicianship, insane touring schedule. Uh they were a live band first and foremost throughout their entire career. Um never critically uh welcomed, you know, uh always shit on, for lack of a better term.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

But the fans that stuck around with them stuck through thick and thin and you know, supported them for uh a 50-year career. Um Cole's notes on the on the just sort of record sales and stuff like that. Global album sale estimates, around 42 to 45 million, um, 19 studio albums, 11 live albums, 12 compilation albums, 24 gold records, 14 platinum, three multi-platinum, zero number one hits. Interesting. Which that's a lot of sales for not having any major hits. Yeah. Um they did have a couple number one sort of rock hits in Canada. Um, I think they had one number one uh that was on the Billboard Mainstream Rock 100 um in the States, called New World Man. It's actually one of my least favorite rush songs. But it was sort of that was sort of the one that that was actually critically acclaimed and actually did chart a little bit. Yeah. Um so yeah, oh, another one. Uh third most consecutive gold or platinum studio albums by a rock band, um behind only the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. Say that again. Third or uh consecutive gold and platinum albums.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Oh, okay, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

So the third most consecutive gold and platinum albums um of any band ever, outside of the Beatles and Rolling Stones.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

But are these Canadian gold? No.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

That's our that's uh by the RIAA, which is the recording industry and association of America.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Because we have, you know, I think each country has their own version of that. Like in New Zealand, you only have to sell about 20 records to get a gold record. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

So yeah, they you know, uh pretty massive numbers and and a very impressive career. Their discography is very in-depth. Um, and one of the things that I love about Russ sh so much is that there's there's very distinct um sort of eras. They were a band that was constantly pushing themselves. Um pretty much every album they've ever done was, and and then they they often say this in interviews and stuff, they were over always overextending no matter what they were doing. It was just in a different area. You know, maybe it was more on the on the heavy playing, maybe it was more on the thematical themes of the long epics. Um then it kind of got into sort of a more of a pop um sort of synth and and bit of reggae, a bit of new wave.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

So you mean they never half-assed anything? Whatever they were doing, they went way over.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

100%. Right, okay. And uh they often overcorrected and went a bit too far, and people hated it and they got, okay, we'll try something new. But um uh there's there's a a pretty famous interview with Neil where he says, you know, the words um that doesn't fit rush have never been uttered because they will do whatever and just see and do their own take on it and see how it goes. Um very, very fearless band, um, very true and very honest to who they were and what they were doing, and never really compromise. And that's kind of what I want to get through and and um go through some examples and show you. So started off, I said, uh like a lower middle class, um, started playing pretty seriously in their early teen years. Um Getty and Alex first bonded over their goofiness, not over their their love of music. They were both pretty outcast and their school and and social norms.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Um what age were they did they say when they met?

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Uh I think in like sort of grade eight or grade nine, sort of that middle school range. Yeah. Um started playing quite a bit and started uh playing live as many nights a week as they can. And in this was around 1968. Um they formed a band with John Rutzi, who was uh one of their neighbors. He was on drums, so it was Getty on bass, Alex on uh guitar, and John on drums. John was a much more straight up and down rock drummer.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Um and you'll actually see that in the first example. They started um playing a lot of church gigs and stuff like that, a lot of high school dances. Uh at the time in Ontario, the drinking age was 21. So a lot of high schools, you know, kind of took it on themselves to have lots of live events, live music, stuff like that, keep keep the kids entertained, so they'll just go off and get drunk and and cause all sorts of issues.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Do you mean because it was 21, the kids would not go to bars, they'd go and get pissed up in other places. Exactly. Schools are trying to keep them somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Yeah, keep them somewhere where you can actually, you know, give them entertainment and not just have them uh cause. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And they often joke that, you know, for those school dances and stuff, it's all pop music. It's the it's the music of today, and that's very much not what Rush played. So they they often joke that they've ruined many people's, you know, Sadie Hawkins dances or many people's uh high school dance memories. But you know, that's just kind of who they were. They were loud, they were playing the rock of the day, they were highly influenced by um sort of the the Brit um blues rock revival, um, massive Led Zeppelin fans. Um before they actually, actually, before just before we jump into the first example, um, Ray Daniels um saw them playing at a church hall, and that was in around 1968, 1969. Um, I think they were only 16 at the time. He could tell they were already great players. He was a fan immediately. Um he asked to be their manager, and Alex said, you know, hey, if you can get us from 10 bucks a gig to 12 bucks a gig, sure. Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of the realm they were at. Um playing live basically all over southern Ontario, anywhere they could. And they were starting to have a little bit of a cult following just for their live performances. Um They tried to cut a record, could not sell it, could not get a recording deal anyway. Or eventually they said, you know what, screw it, we'll self-fund. So Ray Daniels funded the first record and started shipping it out. Um, couldn't get any airplay in Canada. Eventually we're started sending samples uh down to the States, and there was a radio station in Cleveland that picked up on Working Man, which will be the first example.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

The area where the radio station was was big into it was a working class town, and you can see uh a lot of those early Led Zeppelin influences. To me, this sort of feels like Rush doing a Led Zeppelin imitation and not doing super great at either, but it's cool. No, okay, they would just play wherever, yeah, wherever they could. Yeah. No, um, Getty is doing uh Rush. Alex is a Yugoslavian immigrant, um, his parents also play in the war at the time, so I they're kind of all over the place. Yeah. They had a bit of a turning point uh around 1971 where the drinking age was reduced from 21 to 18, and that was right when they were turning 18 as well. So all of a sudden they were they were sort of at that hit age, they could go and play all these different bars, and they really started developing their chops. So they cut this record and released it in 1974.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Um, this is what I want to talk about for a second.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, so they've been they've been playing live for many years at this stage. Um and pretty pretty traditionally, like, you know, three to five shows a week, sort of thing. But um basically anywhere they could. Very much a live band, a live work.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

It's interesting how they double-check this button right now. What's this whole controversy around this book? Do you know what? Like stuff functions.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I think he there's two feet there. Um it's it's kind of funny. So Neil and Getty are extreme goofballs, they're they're really burstable, they don't take themselves very seriously at all. Uh, whereas Neil is very, very introverted. Um struggles with things, he struggles with interviews, all that sort of stuff. Um he's much more comfortable reading a book about some high-level philosophy or something like that, as opposed to um sitting and actually having those conversations.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

I've seen Getty kind of joke about it all the time, so I don't think he takes himself too seriously at all. Um I think he is well aware of the um the controversy controversy around it, and decided, you know what, the fans like it, and that's all that really matters.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, and that's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

So yeah, this was Working Man. Um it's not a bad song. No. I actually think the solos are a bit gratuitous. Really? A little bit. I thought it was alright. I mean, that's all it goes on for like two or three more minutes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I see what you mean though. They sound I mean, it was it was not bad. No, it's not bad. It just it does, but it does sound like a kind of a covers band of Led Zeppelin. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah, totally. And that was actually uh originally that was sort of a bit of the draw for people. Yeah. Um the the radio DJ who first started playing it in Cleveland. I'm sorry, I can't remember her name at the moment. Um, but she mentioned about how the phone lines were were lighting up, and it's like, hey, when's the new Led Zeppelin coming out? And she's like, no, no, no, Canadian band Rush. Um and that was actually the start of them getting a bit of a cult following though. Right. Yeah. So that was enough that um it wasn't a huge hit, but it did get them to start touring. Yeah. And they were touring in the States now. Um and uh John Rutzi, the the drummer at the time, um, unfortunately had type 1 diabetes. He was not taking care of his health. Um, you know, they're they're young 20-year-olds, um, they're partying, they're drinking, um, he's doing all sorts of damage to himself. And eventually the tour manager said, Look, you know, you're performing, it's you're not you're not being let go um for a skill or or uh, you know, you're not doing your job. But if we take you out on this tour, you're gonna come home in a body bag.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

So John understood that they kind of parted ways, um, but they needed to find a new drummer. The tour was kicking off, I think, in two to four weeks, and they had nobody. Um through the grapevine, they heard about Neil.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Uh Neil was sort of one of those friend of a friend, like, hey, you gotta check this guy out. Um, he was in a serious band at the time called J.R. Flood. Uh they were you know practicing every day of the week, um, out playing live, you know, two to four times a week, sort of thing. Uh, lots of sort of jazz influence, bit of a goofy looking dude. Um, definitely does not look the part.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Uh so he was working at his parents' farm supply, like tractor supply store, and uh a white Corvette pulls up. This was from the the record label that was promoting um this next tour and and trying to get these guys on the road. They've got this record deal now on the back end of um a little bit of the hype from Working Man. And takes him he does an audition for them. Um apparently Alex's first thought was I don't think he's cool enough to be in the band. Like he's just a a bit of a nerdy guy, he's real gangly, he's got short hair when everyone else has got long hair, you know, just kind of doing his own sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

I thought you said the other two guys are pretty nerdy.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Oh, they all are. Right. All it's very much a nerds band.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

So he was he was even nerdy.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

He was too nerdy for the nerds. Wow. So yeah, that's how you know it's next level. And um, like most musicians do, he he he has his audition, thinks, oh shit, I blew it. Right. Didn't think didn't think it went well. Um Alex and Getty fame famously said, like he came in and just blew them away, pounded the crap out of the drums. He said it was like um having Keith Moon and John Bonham in one. Um Getty said I was just blown away. So they say, you know, you got the job, and Neil said it was like a tornado came in and just blew his life apart because he had to learn all these new songs in two weeks. Yep. And then they were immediately going on the road and they were opening for um Uriah Heap and Manford Band um in front of 11,000 people in Cleveland.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

So it was absolute chaos. He learned the songs, went out, and they just absolutely nailed it. Umriah Heap uh famously said uh his first thought was wow, he can sing high. And then the second thought was um it was pretty obvious they were gonna make it big pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Right. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

So they start uh going off on this tour. Um they're playing, I think, like 200 plus shows a year. Um, you know, it's a sort of classic US tour where they're playing as many shows in as many different cities as they can trying to promote the band. Um they're recording, um, you know, they're writing new songs for their next album. And uh Neil being the new guy, he's kind of a bit introverted doing his own thing. He realized that he could go to bookstores all over the country and kind of self-educate everywhere. And um Getty and Alex see this and go, Oh shit, look at how many books he's reading. I wonder if this guy can write lyrics. And that's sort of the moment where I think Rush becomes Rush because Neil transitions into more of a songwriter role and he becomes the main lyricist. Wow, and and Getty didn't want to. No, well, no, not at all. Wow. I I mean I don't maybe there was a bit of a bit of back and forth. I don't know, but um But he's a singer.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

The singers normally write the lyrics, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yeah, yeah. It's it's and it's very rare for a drummer to be the lyricist. Yeah. But this is a guy who was always in his head, as you'll see in the lyrics, thinks very, very deeply about all sorts of crazy topics. Um and started putting that into the lyrics. And for Getty, um, he he's often said, you know, his first thought was, Oh wow, how am I gonna actually sing this? This is a mouthful, this is a lot. But but that is where Rush starts to gain its identity.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

So they follow up um from the self-titled album uh with a second one called Fly by Night, and we'll play the title track.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Um we're 20 minutes in and we've heard one song, so don't worry, the other ones will go quicker. This will be a four-hour episode, so what year is this?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

This is 1975. Now this one is uh one of their hits that has sort of remained a hit. This is one that still gets a lot of airtime. Um still being played on a lot of classic rock radio stations, parking. Bit of a change in the drumming already.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Yeah. I can hear the Keith Moon Biden. That's all about Moosey Goosey in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

So yeah, they're starting to develop into the band that they're gonna be. Right. Um this song was was pretty accessible. This one was sort of the radio hit that sort of carried them on their next tour. But one thing that they were finding was the record company wasn't too comfortable with the other songs on the album. They started to get pretty weird, pretty thematical. There's a song about like elves in Rivendale, there's a song called Bytor and the Snowdog. Some some really out there stuff, and they weren't really sure, you know, are they developing in the right way? It was um they weren't sure if that was the band that they thought they were signing on to, you know. So but they were still building that cult following, they were touring like crazy, um, you know, building that momentum, building that momentum, and they came out with their next album called Cress of Steel. Okay. Um Cress of Steel only had five songs. I think the average length on them was uh, you know, 10 to 12 minutes. Yeah. They're super weird. That means it that really means it's an EP. Pretty much. So if you want to play the next one, uh this song is called Bastille Day. This was the song that um opened the album. Start to get much more thematical at this stage. You know, this is a song about the French Revolution. Um, it talks about get guillotines getting uh their bloody prize and stuff like that. Something that's actually um relatively on brand today in 2026. This album was not well liked. Um see, I actually I quite enjoy this song. I think this is probably the best song from the album. Um but like I say, it was getting very, very heavy thematically. The the lyrics kind of go all over the place. Right. The record company didn't get it. They recorded the album, they released it, they were touring with KISS at the time. Yep. And they played it for Paul Stanley. They can tell he didn't get it. Um, you know, Alex uh famously said, I'm not even sure if we really got it. They were they were um high most of the time they wrote that, and I think it sort of does come through a little bit in the lyrics.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

I'm not even sure we really get it.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

They the the record company started to lean on them a bit at this stage. They said, No, you're not releasing something like this again. Um, you know, we need to become more commercially friendly, we want radio hits, we want singles. And Ray Daniels, their manager, said, you know, no worries, I'll I'll send that back to the band. I'm sure they're they're gonna do that. And so they went off, they recorded their next album, 2112. It became one of the most famous prog rock concept albums of all time. The opening song for that was a 20-minute song that has five different names. It's it's 2112, Overture, um, The Temple of Syrinx, uh I can't even remember them all. Yeah. Um, down to finale. So this was the opening of the next album after they said, No worries, you know, shorter songs, we're gonna do another thing. Um, they told the record company one thing and went off and did the exact opposite.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Critics And was that in spite of the record company? Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Right, yeah. Yeah. They all decided that they would rather go back to their old jobs than compromise on what they wanted to to make. Yep. And this is what they wanted to make.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

And and while we're listening to this, I'm surrounded by a music industry now that constantly is in the mindset of playing the game, and the number of times artists say to me, Well, well, they say that you have to do this and you have to do that, and I'm like, who's day? Oh, I went to some workshop or some spoke to some industry person, and now there's all these rules. The recent one we had was a single that got rejected because it well not rejected, but it got criticized because the drums didn't come early enough, you know. Um and there's a whole history of bands collectively just saying, fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

And this is one of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Right. Yeah. Uh it it I know we're not supposed to talk about modern industry things, I'm breaking my own rule now. But it winds me up. Like very relevant. Where did the rebellious, you know, um independent, you know, cowboy vibe of the music world go? Now everyone's picking and everyone's become a softie. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

And and I think it it sort of takes that sort of level of conviction that no, this is the artwork that we do, this is what we enjoy doing, this is what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Um you just did it. You just said we're either gonna do this or we're gonna go home. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah. And you need to have that conviction if you actually want to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And they're a band that had that.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

And so this album, this is where they um, I think sort of peak in the sort of concept album. 2112 is is a terrific concept album. It's um actually, it's got a foreword in the sleeve of the album um that says this is dedicated to the Fountainhead by um Ayn Rand. Did you say what year this was? Um I don't think I did. Sorry, this is 1976. Okay. Okay, so it's one a year for a while. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they were they would go out, um, you know, tour and do 200 plus shows in a year and write new songs um while they were on the road, cut it in two to three weeks, and do it again. And they did that for I think six or seven years, where it was like an album a year. Yeah. And these are heavy albums. This is not easy music to play, right? Um, it's not easy music to record. Most of the songs that they did, they always wanted to record and and um do things as if it was a live song. Most of the songs they recorded were were one take, live takes. Yep. And um, because they were a live band, that was their bread and butter, that's what they liked doing. And obviously that gets harder and harder when you start doing 20-minute epic songs with three or four different key changes, all sorts of time signature changes. It's very, very heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

It'll be interesting to know how they worked. Um, and there's often a lot of misinformation out there. Probably not the best word I could use, but um confusion, let's say, or people throwing uh artists throwing people off the scent in in terms of um a lot of the time it's been unpopular to say, yeah, we write up charts and we read them and and we do the kind of the bookworm stuff, you know. They like to imply that they don't do that stuff. That's kind of what I say, they'd have to. Um I remember when I interviewed um Doug Pinner from King's X, he talked about their first manager and how the first manager was the one who was like, do it again, play it again, work harder, you know, just to get up to this really, really high level that they eventually got to. And when you hear those early albums that, you know, I've played you some King's X and you said it reminded you of Rush, you know. Uh they were so tired and it was so elaborate and and um they're incredibly impressive. So yeah. In some ways, um the amount of work that goes into that sort of stuff is gonna not be necessarily as intense as you think it might be, because they're already very high-level players, and if they've charted it all out, they could probably just sort of write it up and then play through it and wing it. It doesn't mean it's ready yet. But you know, then if they rehearse it and rehearse and rehearse it and rehearse it, it's gonna really start to take shape.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

That's what I think these guys did.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

So it's uh it's a one thing I've pointed out to people in the past is that when you're a new musician and you're doing everything by feel and playing by ear, man, you know, you basically go to rehearsal every week and learn all the songs again because you forget what everyone did last week. But when you uh uh uh install these more professional approaches, you don't have to work as hard.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

You can't win rush songs.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I believe it, right from what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, yeah. And um so this was an album when they released it, but like I said, the the critics hated it. Right. But the fans love it. It ended up being their most successful album to date zero radio play, zero promotion all through classic word of mouth.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

You know, you'd see people in the high school halls wearing a leather uh denim jacket with the 2112. It's a very famous um uh sort of image and symbolism in sort of the prog rock um history at this stage. Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Um and Neil famously said this was sort of the skeleton key. Uh 2112 gave them creative license. Because the record of the company hated it so much, but the fans and the sales all of a sudden went through the roof, they said, you know what? You guys are onto something, these people are buying your records, you can do what you want to do. So that was sort of uh, you know, the leash was off at that stage and they could just keep going. Cool. And what's interesting, if you actually just go to the end of that song. So yeah, with the 2112 overture song, it's all about, you know, this this other planet, and there's uh your protagonist who finds a guitar, um, and in this other, this futuristic sci-fi world, you know, individual individualism is dead and everyone converts to the norm, and so they try and they try and do their own thing and he gets shut down, and and the the priests at the temple um you know go against them, and it's uh it's got all these like really heavy literary meanings. And I think in the back end it actually does sort of play into what they were dealing with as a band as well, you know, they were trying to maintain that creative control. And towards the end of the song, um which we're coming to now, it actually ends with just an overtone, you know, a monotonous overtoned voice saying, you know, we've we've gained control, we've gained control, right? That's such a such a badass sort of screw you way to end the first song in a way that the record company said, you're absolutely not to do this, you know, no more long epic, no more weird stuff, and they just, you know what, we're gonna get weirder and longer, and we're just gonna issu it, and if you don't like it too bad. Um, and I think that's something that a lot of bands could learn from.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

It's also interesting though, because record companies famously for history have often put albums in purgatory. You know, they're they're under contract but they won't release the album because I'm not happy with it. So the record company didn't have to release it. I didn't know that. Yeah, so they they obviously listened to it in the end and changed their mind. You know, or gave in or something.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah, maybe maybe they did just gave in, maybe they thought, oh well, release it and see how it does.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, artists would sometimes get stuck because they'd be like in a five album deal, but the company have has lost faith in them or they don't like the fourth album that they've recorded or whatever, and they'd basically stop all progress, and the artists wouldn't be able to move on with their career because they're still stuck in the deal, but the record company wouldn't progress the deal forward. And um sometimes that's why you'll have artists who will change their name and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

So they have assumed control.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

This is starting to explain a little bit about you too.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Yeah. I don't deal well with authority figures. Um and I mean a lot of that stuff did really speak to me, you know. When you're you're hearing this music as uh what you consider a bit of a rebellious teen, everyone goes through those sorts of years, and so it really connected with me at the time.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

When are you gonna finish that?

SPEAKER_01 32:55

When I die. So they finished 2112, um, like I say, it it goes through the roof with with the fans at least. Um reinvents them because on the at the after Caress of Steel, you know, they thought this was this was it, they were gonna be done. But Ceress of Steel um sort of paved the way for their next concept album, which was 2112, and then they thought, you know what, we need to they actually wanted to sort of to to pull back from that a little bit. Um the next song uh is uh closer to the heart. This was on the next album that was released in 1977 on the A Farewell to Kings album. You may have heard this one before. This is one of their bigger hits. This is another one that um, you know, gets the whole stadium up and going and and uh is a big hit that you'll hear on truck ads or all sorts of stuff. You hear all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

I don't know if we have truck ads in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Oh, maybe that's a Canadian thing, that's a North American thing. But you know, they were as far as critics were concerned, Rush was branded, you know, terminally on hip. There's there they're weird guys, they're these this weird three-piece from from Canada. I actually really like that album. The men who uh hold high places must be the first to start. Closer to the mould a new reality closer to the heart. That's the sort of stuff that um, like you say, it's some lyrics will connect with you and some won't. It's a very individual thing, but one of the things that's so special about Rush is Neil never um sort of compromised on what he what his vision was for any song, any any sort of theme he wanted to dive into, just dove into it. And did it with quite a bit of nuance um and finesse in the lyrics, which I think is is something that should be uh I think applauded more than it really is.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah, I've been sitting here waiting for you to finish so I can inject my um very clever joke that it was sort of. Would you say that another name that these these guys could have used would be tragically unhip?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Ooh, we're definitely doing a tragically hip one as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Good Canadian joke, right? On your breast on your own.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

We're doing a tragically hip episode as well. Listen to that guitar playing by Alex Light. You know, whether you've never picked up a guitar, or you've been playing for years and feel like you've hit a wall, Augn guitar lessons are for you. Lessons are one-on-one, and every session is built around your goals, your taste, and the songs you actually want to play. All the fundamentals of technique and theory are covered in an accessible way and applied within the songs you're learning, so you progress faster and actually enjoy the ride. If you've always wanted to play, now's the time. If you've plateaued, Aachen Guitar Lessons will unlock your playing, rebuild your confidence, and get you moving again. Head to Aukengitarlessons.co.mz or email info at oxengitarlessons.codobnz to find out more.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

I love it how how we're like, hey, why don't we just like slip this in and make it feel really natural and you go from like chatting about Russian to total like radio voice. Oh, you did that. I had a guy write to me uh yesterday who jokingly said, You're rubbish at saying ads based on our last episode. You should totally get someone else to do it. You're hopeless, because I was stumbling all over it, right? And I wrote back and said, Yeah, but I got you thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

There you go. Yeah, there it works.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah, it's all on purpose. I'm actually brilliant at talking. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. It's all on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

So Closer to the Heart was um quite a bit more commercially successful. The band sort of took another step up at this stage. Um their sound palette gets bigger and bigger. Um Neil's drum kit famously expands more and more and more throughout their career.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Is Getty already doing the foot pedal triggers and the keys and bass that's all happened from the start? Yeah, they're okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah. They're um like I said, they're they're always um famously, they're always outpacing themselves a little bit. They're always writing just a little bit outside of their sort of comfort zone.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Um and part of that was also using the technology of the day.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Um so they're they're there's been a number of um shows and songs that they try and do where they do it in the recording studio, and then you know, they always do it with the thought process of how do we do it live. But obviously their their rigs, everything expands, um, they get a bit more digital over the years. But at this stage we're still in the late 70s. Um the next album that comes out is Hemispheres, which was released in 1978. Okay, and this is probably their heaviest song in terms of uh I think the the difficulty in the music. Right. Um This song is actually probably my personal favorite song, but this is called Trees.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I was gonna actually ask before, is this your favorite band?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Or no, I don't think so. Okay. Um but it's definitely top ten. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

And how many friendships have you walked away from? Zero. For people who don't. Especially Canadians don't like what I like. But especially Canadians who don't like Rush must feel like sacrilege.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

I don't think so. I think it's it's more like most of my friends didn't like it. Yeah. I don't think this song is actually about trees, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

I have noticed that a lot of bands have a writing style which is writing like stories and themes, and one of the running jokes, of course, is every band has written a song about like some sort of medieval situation or whatever. My own personal preference is I've never felt anything from that. Not saying this is a true opinion or anything, it's just my own opinion or my own thing. Because I always react to it to lyrics that feel like they're more, you know, um personal or you know what I mean, like they're more of an expression of some where someone is, rather than someone talking about knights and horses and fairies. That's also I mean also to double down on that, I've never liked fantasy movies, no interest in Game of Thrones, no interest in Lord of Rings. See, we definitely differ on that. Yeah, exactly. It's just just my preference.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah. And I mean, I kind of meant and pretty much the polar opposite of that, where I am fascinated by people who are able to write a song about trees, but actually make it about inequality and power struggle. Right, I see. And that's what this one is. Yeah. Um and I think if you can sort of blend the I don't I'm not against that idea.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

If you're using like metaphor, that's what this one is. Yeah, yeah. If you're using metaphor to to tell to say something else, that that's interesting, I agree. I think a lot of bands I don't know, I think they had the story part, but without the point. You know, like, okay. I'll I'll just say another thing that'll have to become another episode too. Like, I'm totally a Phil Collins era of Genesis guy. I love Peter Gabriel as a solo artist, but the Peter Gabriel um era of Genesis. I actually agree with you, this is garbage.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Well, okay, maybe I don't agree with you. I don't know if I go as far as garbage, but I did prefer Phil Collins.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Garbage in the sense of like song structures were way too indulgent, the lyrics were about nothing, it was all costumes, it was just like, what are you guys doing? I understood that I I understand that historically music had to try this stuff. Now we're talking about Genesis, but but um but I but I am much more interested in listening to No Son of Mine. That gives me goosebumps every time.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yep. Yeah. Well, I mean they're they're a similar band. I mean, they were at that sort of prog rock um Genesis, really. Yeah.

unknown 40:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

By the way, I also think that, and and and this is still a comment on Genesis, but it probably applies to a lot of this stuff, um, I think people out there have a bit of a messed up attitude in terms of they will by default always go for the weird stuff and be suspicious of commercial music. And I think a lot of people love to hate Phil Collins because it was commercial, much more commercial, yeah. But it's actually much harder to write. So if a band like Rush or Genesis or whoever else can be creative on all that stuff and still end up with catchy choruses and tight arrangements. Catchy choruses and tight arrangements is really, really hard to write. Yep. And I'd challenge anybody with the opposite opinion. Try writing one yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

And I actually think that's what's so impressive about these guys is a lot of their songs kind of will go like sort of one foot in both camps. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Now, ladies and gentlemen, what Mike there did there was a very professional move because he sensed that I was waffling on a tangent and I was struggling to get myself back, and he just pulled me back to rush. That was a class move.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Getting better at this. I did like that middle bit while I was waffling. Um that middle bit with all the percussion stuff. Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

He um this is this is where his kit really, really expands. And the next song we're gonna play is um probably one of the songs that's known as their sort of hardest songs to play on the drums.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Looks like it has an enormous fade in on it.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

It does. This is La Via Strangiata. One of the things that's so great about this song though is the dynamic that actually builds. Um Alex Lifsen has one of my all-time favorite guitar solos in this song. You'll see how much the the the time signatures um change over the over the life of the song. But this is a song that has absolutely incredible dynamics, and the way that Alex Lifeson builds up his solo is is something pretty special, I think.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Where should I jump to?

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Maybe about a third of the way through. Yeah, their um musicianship takes another step up in this album. They also talk about how this song this album in particular was sort of uh a bit of a turning point for them as well, where they say, you know what, this is too much. They tried to record this song in one take and uh had to split it into three different takes. Right. They still play it live, um, and I've seen them play it live, and it's amazing. But yeah, it was it was a hard one to record. The hi-hat work is great here. His drumming is amazing. Pretty distinct differences in the parts too, but they seem to do it like the transitions are smooth. Which is impressive.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Hmm, yeah. This is uh More jazzy. I was just about to say it's more jazz fusion. Can I talk about Phil Collins again? One more thing on Phil Collins. He he played drums for a band called Brand X on one or two albums. Unbelievable. It's like this kind of stuff, a lot faster, a lot more complicated. Um, but yeah, very much off this time. Did what what what year is this?

SPEAKER_01 43:42

This is 1978.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah, I think that's almost exactly when Phil did Brand X. Um It's interesting how this style of playing has kind of gone out of fashion. It has. To some degree. It sort it sort of came back with um modern kind of jazz fusion. Groups like Snarky Poppy, they do a similar thing, a modernized version of it. Those guys are great. But it's interesting how this stuff kind of I don't know. I don't even don't even know what happened to it. But a lot of people got a bit eye-rolly about it, didn't they?

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Well, I think we we've talked about this, how music progresses and sort of a at a macro level where you have the zeitgeist that tends to shift around a little bit. You know, you kind of go a bit too far. And I feel like the late 70s and into the 80s, it did get a bit gratuitous with the solos, with the overly thematic songs, the the really long run sort of songs where there are these big epics. And this band actually agreed after this album. So this was in 1978. They agreed we're done. Right. This is this is the end of the long epics. Um it just it became too much. Uh, you know, too much for the listener, too much for them playing, too much to be constantly coming up and trying to outdo yourself. Yeah, doing stuff like this. Like, where do you go next? You know?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

See, I don't mind, like, this is fine with me because I listen to loads of instrumental music, I listen to heaps of jazz and stuff like that. So this one I'm quite happy like listening to this. Um the late 80s just got it wasn't just about guitar solos, it was posturing and it was hot air and it was all posy and spanning.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

All the image. It wasn't art, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Really, I think the audiences could sense this is an art.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

And then when Nirvana came out, it's like, okay, back to visceral emotion, you know. But to me, this still sounds like musicians playing. Yeah. Not posing.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Oh no, that and that's what's so cool about these guys is they they were never comfortable with the image side of things. Yeah. Like they they famously really sucked at it. That's what I said. It was so easy to clown on them. They they had this whole like kimono era where they didn't really know what they were doing and had this long hair and these silk silk robes they'd go out and perform and and yeah, and a bunch of the other bands on the circuits were making fun of them relentlessly, and they said, you know, we were always the type of band that just wanted to be in jeans and a t-shirt. Right. That that's all they wanted to do. They just all they cared about was the music. That's it. It was all about the music. They were also, um, at this stage, they were family men, you know, they all had wives at this stage, they had kids. Um, they were never parties. Uh like it was there's a funny interview with Gene Simmons where he was just like, what the hell's wrong with these guys? Like, do you not see what you can do? And they just they'd be in their room watching TV and getting ready for the show the next day, you know, practicing on or writing songs for the next album. They were just non workaholics, essentially. Yeah. So they they ran away from that sort of music in the next album. And the next one um was from Permanent Waves, which was released in 1980. This is the spirit of radio. So they decided we're gonna get a bit more into lean into some of the more commercial songs, lean into a bit more radio-friendly songs, but you'll notice they still did it in a very rush way. So at this stage, they've been playing, you know, 200 plus show tours for five years straight. Um, they're starting to burn out. Like I said, their priorities are shifting. They're they're writing songs that are more relevant to them now, um, less of the big crazy sci-fi epics, more songs just focusing on groove, on technique. I think this is where where a lot of people really started to think rush becomes rush.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Right, interesting. It's interesting that's much more of a pop chord progression. Yep. I can't decide if it can't decide what it makes me think of. I was gonna say Aerosmith, and then I was gonna say Van Halen.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

They were very influenced um around this sort of period uh with the talking heads and police.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Well, neither of those bands are showing up here.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Well, just wait, just wait.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Okay, I'm ready, I'm listening.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

And that was like I said, they were they were a band that was constantly looking for inspiration all over the world and incorporating it into their own music.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Four on the floor, that's a bit of a police move.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

They often say that permanent waves was the most important stepping stone in the band. Um, just like Caressive Steel kind of paved the way for 2112, Permanent Waves paved the way for Moving Pictures.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Um, which Moving Pictures is their their biggest album by far. Um it came out in 1981, so like I say, we're still in that cadence of an album a year. These are heavy albums and a heavy touring schedule.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Regardless of anything we're talking about, it's so great to hear music recorded this long ago where it hasn't been quantized.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

And you can hear the pushes and pulls, and you can hear them listening to each other, and I love all that stuff. Even if I don't like a song, I still like hearing the communication between the musicians.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

They really seem to have a knack for changing time signatures and changing tempo without losing you. Yeah. You know, without losing the audience, and and even people who are not musicians, that they they really are a musician's musician band. Like those are the people that really seem to latch on to it, I think, because of some of the complexity. But even people who are just casual fans won't lose their place in these sort of songs, you know. Yeah. You know what this song needs though? A skanky reggae breakdown. Right. Now you'll hear the police influences. Ah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Wow, that's like a police tribute moment. I know.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

And Neil, Neil basically said as much. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

It's quite funny that we haven't put the police on the list as a band to talk about. Maybe it's nothing to talk about because everyone knows them, because they're so unbelievably massive. I don't know what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Uh, truthfully, I never really listened to the police that much before I started taking lessons with you, and then we did a few songs. So I think it could definitely be an interesting.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

It could be good, yeah, because a lot because it could be one of those things where you talk a lot about B-sides and things, and the lesser known stuff often surprises people.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

That's all I knew was their major hits. Yeah, yeah. That was kind of all I knew of them. I like that riff, by the way. Alex Lifeson, I think, is an incredibly underrated guitarist. Like, we gotta remember this is just three guys. So all of that melody and rhythm, he's playing all of it. You know, he does a lot of open string stuff where he kind of uses the open string as sort of the bass notes and then he builds the melody underneath.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Obviously, studio recordings is not just three recordings. Like there's I can hear overdubs coming and going. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

That's what I mean. When when they play this stuff live, though, it's still it's it's incredible. Yeah. Now the next song, this is probably Russia's biggest hit. This is free. Yep. Well, not three minutes, we'll probably go a little bit over on this one. I'm sure you've heard this one before. This is Tom Sawyer, released uh in 1981. Yeah. This album in particular is the album where they really gelled together.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

I'm just lost in thought at the moment, trying to work out like. I have to hear it in the context of the time it came out.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

And this is pretty early. This is pretty start of that sort of synth wave movement.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

This is always the challenge when you're listening to music from the past, is you have to try and turn off in your brain everything that happened since then. I can see how innovative this is. I can see how this would have really lit people up in that moment. I can totally see that. I'm also trying to decide whether his voice is growing on me or not. Couldn't quite get up to those notes. I think I heard his um eyes going bloodshot, this thing.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

So yeah, that that's probably their biggest hit. Right. That's the one that when you go to a concert, um, it's it's been uh parodied in South Park.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

And they like to start their concerts by playing the South Park clip, and then they start going into the song and then they come in live underneath it. It is so epic. Like it's one of those things that when you're at when you're you know at the venue and that comes on, um and that that sort of that low drone-y sort of bass note comes in at the start, the whole crowd just loses their mind. So that is one of the most epic um stadium songs I think I've ever heard live.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

There's always something so moving at a live show where where a band comes in on a particular song and it's a song that's always meant a lot to you personally, and you feel the entire crowd react the same way, and you realize that it's not that you ever thought you were the only one that had the experience with the song, but it's something when you're talking about when you realize that it's not just me. You know, like the song has moved me for 25 years or whatever. Um, I think that's a very emotional.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Very emotional. I think that is one of the things most people experience that what you level like everybody having a shared hashtag energy level. You can't really feel anyone. One of the things I love about that one is that we're sort of setting a bit of the foundation and the uh dreams and bass trades all those for about uh a couple minutes, which is I think pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

That was cool.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

That intro is actually inspired off of uh a radar doppler when they were coming into land at Toronto Pearson Airport, which is the designation as YYZ. And Neil Part thought, hey, there's a song, there's a song, and it is a wicked song, go check that one out. Um maybe skip forward to R12. Do you want to explain why you're referring to it as R12? So part of Danny and I, when we um come up with these episode ideas, we kind of like the idea of experiencing things live in the moment. So um when I came up with the episode idea, I'm trying to tell the story of Rush. It's a 40-year, 40-plus year career, so it's it's obviously a very detailed in-depth story. Um I just named all of the MP3s Rush 1, Rush 2, Rush 3, so that way uh you would come into them a bit blind. Um yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

And also on the dynamics episode, I did a similar thing so that you didn't have a chance to get a heads up of what I was playing in. Yeah, which was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Yeah, it's it's fun hearing those live in the context of what you want to get across, right? Exactly. So after moving pictures, they actually changed, they had one more album called Signals, which was released in 1982. Uh that was the last album that was produced by Terry Brown. So Terry Brown had released 12 albums with them at this stage. And they were getting more into um sort of pop music, getting more into new wave, um, getting more into sort of that 80s sound. They started writing a lot more with keys-focused um songs. I kind of jokingly referred to the period of um, you know, 1984 to 1996 as sort of like the last decade. This is this is where a lot of Rush fans fell off because they got so much more into the pop and and keys really became much more focused.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

This is the sound of the times, though. Yep. I mean I can hear that the guitars are EQ'd like um Def Leopard and you know, all that kind of stuff, which you can't hold against them for that.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

Not looking back, but I want to look around now.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

This is actually probably my favorite album from or favorite song from this sort of era. Yeah, we're definitely in the 80s. Yeah, 100%. You can hear it, you can hear it very, very strongly. Um pretty much all of their albums from sort of 1984 to mid-90s were kind of in that realm. Yeah. The band did kind of change a little bit at this time. Um Alex didn't love that, you know, it was so more much more keys focused. He wasn't the the guitars sort of were taking a bit of a back seat. But they still had a bit of commercial success. They're pretty upfront, the guitars. Maybe this was a bad example. Yeah, it may be. There is there is a lot of songs where I think uh there's one called Distant Early Warning or Red Alert, um, where Neil is playing a very digital drum kit. He's playing an E-Kit, right? Um it's a lot of like samples, really simp heavy, um, very keys focused. Um and it didn't didn't really work with a lot of fans.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

There's a a type of EQing that they would do at this period in on the guitars. That'd give it this kind of glassy sound that really make it really high and trebly and cut most of the lows right out. And I feel like it took so many years for that to finally get out of everyone's system. It did my head in from the 90s into the 2000s. You'd go and record an acoustic in the studio and they made the acoustic sound like this thin, glassy thing. I was like, no! Less 80s, more Neville Young, you know? So I flinch a bit when I hear that guitar tone, but I can totally hear that they are a band of their time making a record in their time. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

So that's what it was. Yeah. And uh around this time, uh, unfortunately, a tragedy struck the band. On August 10th, 1997, um, they got a call. Neil's daughter, she was 19 at the time, uh, passed away in a car accident. They really struggled. Um, the next year was pretty much hell on Neil and his and his wife of 23 years at the time, and uh she passed in June or July, I think. June, sorry, June 20th, 1998, so less than a year later. His wife. His wife passed. Right. Lost his daughter and his wife uh within 12 months. Um she died of cancer. He he kind of says, you know, it's a slow suicide essentially. She basically gave up. Wow. So the band was done at this stage. Um, you know, there they had no no desire. Um Neil actually kind of went on a bit of a soul journey. He just got on his motorcycle and left. He was uh he was a big rider. Um I kind of mentioned earlier how much he struggled with fame. Some of that's a that's a pretty common theme that runs in a lot of the the different songs. Um did an 88,000 kilometer bike ride all along like northern Canada, all through Alaska, down the west coast, all the way down south to Belize and back. Um Alex and Getty were at home, just like hated to hear from him today because like they didn't know. I mean, a trip like that, even something could go wrong not by design, let alone with the mental state he's in, right? So it was a real tough couple years um for all of them. Yeah. Uh slowly he sort of found himself again. Um, you know, somebody who gets to the level of technique and prowess that Neil is at. You know, if you're at a stage where you're one of the best in the world at something, it's hard not to have that drive to want to get back. And yeah. A couple years on, um, after some of his healing journey, he got back with the band. Um, you know, they sort of talked about, oh maybe we're kind of try to start to maybe come into the studio and have a jam or something. It was very much like a you know, a wounded bird you needed to just coax to get back into that world. Um obviously getting back into the rush world brings all sorts of um public criticism and press junkets and all that sort of stuff. So coming back into that after such a tragic couple of years was no um you know no mean feat, but he did. Um they got he got behind the kit again and um decided, you know what, they wanted to cut it a couple more albums. Um and they released three more albums uh Vapor Trail, Snakes and Arrows, and uh Clockwork Angels. It was actually on the Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels, those were the first tours I was able to ever go see them live. Right. So I'm forever grateful that they did get back together because um they were just right back at the top of their game. Right. They kind of moved away from the sort of 80s sound, got back into more of like the classic rush sound, but with a more modern take. So if you play the next one, this is a song called Far Cry from Snakes and Arrows, released in 2007.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

And did you notice a big sort of jump in emotion or anger or anything like that on this record after such a tragic loss?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

Uh Vapor Trails, which was the album before this one. Yeah, it actually starts with a song called One Little Victory.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

And it was obviously a fucking massive victory to be recording and writing music and and living, you know, with with your friends again. Yeah. But it is a bit heavier. This is now in 2007, so you know you're in like that mid to early not. But yeah, so they did another tour, the Clockwork Angels tour, in sort of the 2012 to 2014 range. Um and then Neil stepped away in 2015. Unfortunately, he was developing tendinitis and all sorts of shoulder issues. Um and then he ended up falling sick with cancer. Um didn't tell anyone. It was one of those things that all of a sudden he passed away. We learned after the fact that he'd been dealing with it for I think three or four years at that time. But um Neil passed um from oh, I don't know how to say that, glioblastoma, glioblastoma, but essentially brain cancer in um January of 2020. And uh, you know, that was the end of the Rush story until February of this year, when all of a sudden we heard that Rush was um going back on tour. The announcement that Rush was getting back together was it was a huge shock. Um that was something that like most of us, most fans never really thought we'd see. And um the drummer that they've uh brought on, um, her name is uh Annika Niles or Neil is not a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

I don't know her name. Okay, I just know she's German.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

Yeah, so um I never heard of her until all of a sudden they they popped up on the Juno Awards, and then all of a sudden I you know we had a look at like who is this person? Who can who can follow up after Neil? Um and uh we've got a sample of one of her songs um that she wrote called Alter Ego. So this is the new drummer for Rush on the Rush 50 something tour. This is her own song. Yeah. What's the what's the fan response been like to her? Uh ex well, from what I've seen, blowingly positive. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

But such a loved, treasured band that's so deep in the Canadian culture and has that cult status and fans love 'em or hate them or whatever, it can often be very divisive when it's a member change, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

I'm sure there is a little bit of that. Yeah. Um you know, I'm sure some people will say, oh, it's not Rush without Neil. But from what I've seen, anyways, and the people that I talk with about it, um, we're quite an accepting bunch where you, you know, if you're willing to sit there and listen to a 20-minute song and read liner notes, you're thinking about this stuff pretty deeply.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

I watched some I I watched some footage of her playing with Rush a few weeks ago, because our friend Rooney did a react video uh to a Rush thing. And um it was really interesting to watch. Like it looked like she was having the time of her life.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

So I mean, for someone like me, I immediately just think, well, if she's good enough for Alex and Getty, she's gonna like if you can play these songs, and they and a lot of people can play the songs, but if you can play the songs live with these two guys and give it that feel, I'm on board.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

The other the other side of that that I guess non-musicians may not fully know is that you can have some really high-level musicians together who are all just absolutely extraordinary and they just don't jive.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

You know, because there's just such a thing as musical chemistry. Yep. You know, and it's like the same thing with like romantic connections, I guess, you know? You both might be great people and you just don't feel it, you know. No, she's great. When I was watching that live footage of her, I was really impressed with her.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

Yeah. But yeah, that's uh a 50-something year career, and what do we get to? An hour and 20 minutes, an hour and a half?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

I said so many times. We've got to keep this one short. Less is more, Mike. Less is more. If if the listeners could see the number of pages of notes he's walked in here with. I mean, you know, it's uh it's just, you know, I don't know. If you want to convert people, I just you know, I question your methods, but that's fine. It's all it was all very interesting and engaging.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

I think they're the type of band that you have to be uh a bit of a weirdo who's willing to sit through a whole bunch of long, long conversations.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Well, let's uh let's find out what everyone else thinks. Uh would like to get your comments and feedback. I will talk in a minute about what I'm thinking in this moment. Um of course we're on all of the usual uh platforms, Apple Podcasts and Spotify and all of that. We also have just set up a Facebook group, a private group recently, where you can actually find us group if you go to our Facebook page what do you know show, you can go to what do you know any theater website. You're welcome to comment anywhere and everywhere and um let us know what you think and like and subscribe and all that. So our conclusion or verdict. This is probably more on me, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

So I think when you know, maybe when we introduce each other to music and you'd kinda mention maybe a good idea to sort of playback and give a uh sort of call's notes on why you think the other person enjoys that music.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

Yeah. I was gonna add one thing before we do that, which is something that I think we've lost in the culture of music is is something that was lost thanks to streaming and algorithms and playlists and things like that. Music historically would you would almost always hear about a new band because someone would say, dude, you've got to check this out.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Word of mouth.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Word of mouth. And all and but it would be it'd be you know ramped up with passion and and also specific nuance. Like don't start at that 1972 album. You've got to start at 1975 or whatever. There's context around it. And that's something I just don't think playlists give you. I don't think I agree randomly like you like this so you might like that. Oh fuck off. You know you've got to we've got to engage with each other about what we like because that it's just not working on the stream. Talk about why. Talk about why tell it to each other. Yeah and and one thing that I know that I can't get up to speed with is your life with Rush. You know so there's all like there's all of this emotion and you know I'm sure there's memories associated with all these songs for you and stuff like that. But yeah like being introduced to them now I yeah I'm impressed. I I think I like them a little bit. I don't know if I I'd put them on I don't know if I'd put them on. It's still getty that's probably the barrier yeah and that's mainly because I obviously already have a particular interest in the stuff that I like which is less kind of like art house and I like more of the punk rock you know visceral explosive emotion stuff rather than I am a night and there's horse over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

You know I don't think you quite listen to the lyrics but that's the right but I don't just mean the lyrics I mean the kind of theatrical stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:37

I I never I never got into the prog rock scene at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

Like you know and I I love moments in Floyd but I don't put Floyd on because I can't listen to a whole show you know yeah I definitely do lean into that I and I really enjoy the thematical albums um like The Wall I love that I've listened to that so many friggin' times.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Yeah um I just realized I totally screwed it up we weren't doing the steel manning thing I was just saying what I thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

That's fine. That's fine. I think that still works too and and you're right like if I were to introduce someone to Rush I wouldn't have done it the way we just did it here. This was this was giving the history of the band how they got to where they did um I would start on permanent waves or moving pictures um which is sort of towards the end of their thematical stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Like I wouldn't we do that going forward when we're doing this sort of would wouldn't it make more sense if it was more like if we were just hanging out and I was like you haven't heard this band? Come on and I was trying to get you into it wouldn't that rather than a kind of a historical chronological thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

Yeah I was sort of thinking of this one as telling the story of the band. Yeah which is great.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

That was all very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

Yeah we can change it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Hey join the group and tell us what you think. Exactly do you like the history or do you want us to just talk as if we're um trying to get each other onto the the music that we like.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Yeah. Also we set up a buy me a coffee page. So if you'd like to support us buy me a coffee forward slash what do we know show is where you'll find us. Anything and everything would be very much appreciated. Absolutely okay have you got a rush lick for me?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

No I don't actually This episode was brought to you by Auckland Guitar Lessons. Head to Aucklandguitarlessons.co dot nz or email info at auckland guitarlessons dot co dot nz to find out more