What Do We Know?
One of them makes music for a living. The other just really loves it. What Do We Know? is hosted by professional musician and producer Danny McCrum and hobby guitarist Mike Harrington. Each week they dig into the albums, artists, gear, history, and big debates that make music worth talking about. Expect strong opinions, genuine curiosity, and more laughs than they probably intended. Join the conversation.
What Do We Know?
9. WTF is Yacht Rock?
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What exactly is Yacht Rock and why is it called that? Mike, Danny and Rooney each bring their chosen Yacht Rock tracks to enjoy, analyse and debate. Are these songs gloriously cheesy, pure genius, or secretly both? And should we even be calling it Yacht Rock at all?
Oh yeah. FM radio.
SPEAKER_02You you put your hand up to to kick us off, and all you're doing is making sound effects.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Well, I feel like that real detail. That's the vibe.
SPEAKER_02The 70s porn vibe. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I didn't know we're recording that kind of episode. Well, judging by the thread, the uh comment thread back and forth during the week. Um it was getting pretty spicy there in the uh in the message thread back and forth. Speaking of spicy, yacht rock. Yacht rock. Yacht rock.
SPEAKER_02What is it? That was my question going into this. Take it away. With what? The explanation? Yeah. The question. Well, as I researched it, I discovered that lots of songs and uh uh that I thought were yacht rock weren't yacht rock. Right. Like I thought like a song that came straight to my mind was Shout by Tears for Fears. Oh. And then I think that comes to mind. Because it's too edgy and too synthy. I bet you one of the one of you chose it, didn't you? No, no. I just see that as 80s pop. Yeah. That's why I was confused. Yeah. Very, very blurred lines. D does anyone have a good summary of what it means?
SPEAKER_03Um well, I think it's it's basically what probably would have previously been called West Coast or AOR. Definitely. Okay. Yeah. Adult adults only rock or adult-oriented rock.
SPEAKER_02Right, okay. I thought that term was broader.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think soft rock. I think the West Coast sound is probably the one that would define it if you were in a broader scope of it. And then it feels like yacht rock is a sub-genre. You know, it's a niche sub-genre of that West Coast sound.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Which is very hard to sort of narrow down, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00The way I kind of think of it, it's sort of that smooth rock from like the mid-70s to mid-80s. And it clearly draws on influences from soul, smooth jazz, RB, and then even a little bit of disco, some of the songs.
SPEAKER_03And not much rock.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, that's debatable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Smooth rock for sure. Just before we get into that, um, we'd like to start off with uh, you know, if we've received any messages from anybody or or emails or whatever, and we received a really nice message from Clive that I thought I'd read out. Um this is in response to our 1991 episode. Uh, and he says, Hi Danny and Mike, I'm so grateful that I've lived through the great periods of popular music you identified. So many milestones happened to me in the three years you identified as historical. I was born in 63, immigrated from the UK to New Zealand in 1971, and married in 1990. Brackets close. I have heard and seen and been moved to shock and surprise by so many unbelievable popular musical moments. Thanks for the memories, love the podcast. Cheers, Clive. Thanks, Clive. Cool message, right? Yeah, it's awesome. We have a very, very high quality of of person, of character listening to the show.
SPEAKER_03People don't realise it actually means a lot. Yeah. When when someone does reach out and sort of it really it Yeah, it's great. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02I mean we're all desperate for attention. That's why we do it. Well, it's nice to know that you've been listened to and that people actually engage with it. Yeah, and it's also validating because of, you know, I was right. It was 1991.
SPEAKER_03I love how it's become the 1991 episode.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that was that was originally supposed to be. That was the point. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We did the poll in the group for asking people their favourite year, but we didn't want to lead them. But got it. Right, so we didn't specify. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Got it. We'll do the actual best year in a future episode for 1971.
SPEAKER_02It's funny, that one just seems to not get saved on the spreadsheet. I don't know why. Yeah, weird. Weird. Danny runs the spreadsheet. I'm busy that day. I think the thing that we want to start off with is uh uh weebing Rooney and me, especially. Well maybe you two is um the name Yacht Rock, right? That's probably our biggest gripe, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I might have a slightly different take on like I I I don't feel particularly triggered by the term. But um obviously if I was an artist in the era who was playing at this level, and then for it to be minimized into yacht rock, maybe maybe I'd feel different, but as a fan of it, I don't yeah, it's uh it's a fine it's fine with me. Like I'm not totally, you know, against it.
SPEAKER_00I started very much against it when we started doing the research, and I have a much more nuanced view on it now. You know, I think well I guess to kind of should we maybe dive into the history a little bit of of how that started? Yep.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so um yeah, please do because I actually have no idea.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so so it originated from a web series, like a web a comedy web series that were like five to ten minute skits. Um they looked like something from like late, you know, 1970s sort of PBS sort of quality. This was in 2005 when they first came out, and they called the series Yacht Rock. And what it was was a bit of a a joke series on like how songs were made. And it was all these session musicians that were hanging out and singing about love and all this sort of stuff, and so they were these fake stories of how the songs were written. And I went in watching them, like originally wanting to be against it, and I kind of came out of fan. They're they're funny, like they're they're really funny, they're really funny skits.
SPEAKER_03They're quite low, yeah. As you say, like genuinely like YouTube little pre-Youtube, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like YouTube started, I think, in 2006 or 2007, so this was like that that just before. What were they on then? Uh it was a just a website. It was yeah, like Web 101, or I can't remember what it was, but yeah, some some stuff posted. And that's sort of the vibes that it is. So it was never something that was intended to be serious, but the skits were funny, they kind of caught on, and because they were talking about really good music, the music stuck. And it's one of those things that I feel like um I agree it is a little bit dismissive of definitely the level of musicianship of of this music that we're talking about. Like uh, I'm sure as we get into the songs, the listeners will hear this is very high quality stuff. These are, you know, incredible session musicians that seem to sort of permeate a lot of the commonalities of these different songs, and that's where that whole West Coast sound sort of comes in, right? It's all these session musicians in the mid-uh 70s to mid-80s. Um but yeah, it's it's one of those things that I think it started out as a joke, it was never meant to be taken seriously, but people did catch on to it, and it's become this sort of sub-genre of a much wider range of of you know smooth rock. Um but it's brought the music to the forefront of a whole new generation of people. So it's become a meme, which I totally understand why you could get defensive. And I don't know if you guys watched the documentary, the Yacht Rock documentary. I have but uh Donald Fagin, um, he was uh interviewed, like they they called him up and said, Hey, you know, do you want to be in this inter this documentary that that I'm um writing? It's it's about Yacht Rock. And he goes, sorry, what genre was that? And he goes, Um, Yacht Rock. And he goes, Oh, Yacht Rock. Well, why don't you go fuck yourself? And then he hangs up.
SPEAKER_03So Donald Fagin, Steely Dan, if anyone doesn't know, and he's notoriously straight down the middle.
SPEAKER_00But it's good for him. But the flip side of that was they licensed the music to the documentary, so he wasn't.
SPEAKER_02Well, because they're in business, of course. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I mean it's you know, it's one of those things that I think I totally understand the sentiment, but it has brought this music to a new generation of people that might not have heard it otherwise.
SPEAKER_02I think it's a shame though where incredible art gets a condescending, dismissive tone put on it. And just because it might renew interest uh or attention, um I don't know if it's always the right attention. You know, especially I I come at this from from two complaints. Like one thing is living in in a world where a lot of crap is put on pedestals, and I find that quite frustrating, especially when some of the good stuff is then made a joke of.
SPEAKER_03But do you think sorry to sorry to cut you off? I I was just thinking, do you think this is a bit of a reaction to that, how poor pop music and popular music is now? Yeah. That people are going, hey, I like this stuff, and that this is actually the real deal. Proper players. For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, no, it's just the name of it that bugs me. Yeah, sure. Yeah, why do we have to always be so condescending? And I think it's a condescension towards earnestness.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02I think I think the 90s became the age of cynicism. And while that had its place, um, I think it's a real shame that earnestness was it has now become a laughing matter. Um I feel like music has been kind of attacked from all sides for so long in so many different ways, that I I think it's good if we stand up for our craft a little bit, you know, because we work hard and and a lot of it means a lot to a lot of people and so on, you know. The other thing I find annoying about it is having been a recording artist myself, taking my music out into the world, I've been dismissed over labels uh in the past where I don't feel like the people have actually been listening.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like someone called me AOR in the past.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, what's AOR? And they said adult-oriented rock. And I'm like, okay, that's a thing you said, not a thing I said. You know, my I don't know why I'm being rejected for not being edgy enough or whatever you think you're saying. Yeah. Um, when there's a lot of great successful music out there that you know would fit under that category too, which uh to me it's just it's it's just a stupid condescending thing. I think we should stand up for our craft.
SPEAKER_03Yep, you've actually hit on a lot of points. I had right here because I'll see you next week. I had right here, modern culture often feels ironic, detached, everything's gotta be meta. Yeah, we have to know about everything and have a big view on it. Right. Um but yacht rock, well, okay, 70s, 80s pop. I've got here emotionally sincere, romantic. How many genuinely romantic songs, unashamedly romantic songs do you get now? That's right. You know, yeah. Um, and not baby, look at your butt, or you know, like that kind of romantic. I love that. Hopeful, smooth, and earnest. Yeah, which is 100% what you said.
SPEAKER_02And it's a it's a thing about our culture in a broader sense too. Yeah. You know, when when we we're we're living in this polarized, dysfunctional, um um, sort of broken culture globally right now, and I don't think it helps that we all we can't even get together and agree on just a meaningful piece of art.
SPEAKER_03That's yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_00I think this moment in time too is quite interesting. It was sort of the you know, it's kind of that last almost the last gasp of the non-MTV period, you know. It's that it's that sort of last gasp of pop music where it's just session musicians who are running between one session to another. Um, you know, they're they're on there's all sorts of cross-pollination happening. Like a lot of these names, if you look at the liner notes of most of the music in Yacht Rock, you see the same session musicians that are popping up on all of them. And that's sort of, you know, Michael Jackson's thriller was sort of the end of that. Um and then it the the the pop music world sort of changed after that. When Thriller came out, all of a sudden now you need basically a movie to go along with your albums, right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. So the guys like Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins, you know, these sort of yacht rock monsters, they they're in a very different world now that is different to what they've grown up and and really been playing in for a decade at this period. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think that also plays into the I guess mocking or you know, slightly mocking the genre that the videos are quite dated. They're and that there's super cheesy. It's not that way. We don't even have a stylist, you know. Half the time we've just got our big mullet flowing in the air, and um so it does look funny. Yeah. It looks very dated now, but we're so used to everything being so pristine and photoshopped, and this was not that.
SPEAKER_02But if you're gonna mock it, do better. Right? And come up with something better. Good luck. Yeah. I was watching a little documentary, a short documentary the other day about MacGyver, and I loved MacGyver being as a kid, and uh it was talking about how MacGyver never used a gun and he was very sort of ethical and problem solving and blah blah blah. And of course people love to mock MacGyver and fair enough, it's just a TV show, who cares? But but as a kid, I grew up kind of clocking some of this stuff. Like you can be someone that fights for good but fights in an ethical way, and you can problem solve, and I know now we all joke about paper clips and chewing gum and gaffer tape and whatever, but what I heard as a kid was you can think your way out of a problem. And he's a good guy, and he's a good guy, he's a proper good guy. And and what are we replaced with now? Like, where's the where's the kind of good leader for young guys?
SPEAKER_03Dancing with stars on ice, I don't know. That's that's all what's on TV now, I've got no idea. Yeah, I don't know, I don't watch TV anyway.
SPEAKER_02There is actually a well-documented problem with young men not having leaders to look up to, and it's one of the reasons why the manosphere is taken off, you know. Right. I think I think we forget in the cynical time we live in how important the arts are for just making us think as a culture and uh and giving us leaders to look up to.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Do you think this music as well it could possibly be uh I don't want to read too much into it, but because it's quite innocent, at least lyrically, that it's a little bit of like a it's almost like a disco situation where in the in the 90s and early 2000s there was a big 70s disco retro thing. You would go out on a Friday night, it would be 70s night. But now it's eighties night. Right. Do you think there's a little bit of that where we were looking back at a more innocent time?
SPEAKER_02See, I'm not sure if I'm on board with the idea of the lyrics being innocent.
SPEAKER_03Okay, ooh, here we go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think some of them are actually heartbreaking and really thought-provoking. Absolutely, but they're in disco, I actually quite like disco. So do I. But it's obviously party music.
SPEAKER_03But I mean it's not it's not like political or it's not, there's no heavy issues other than heart heartbreak.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say one of the key defining characteristics that I wrote down was, you know, it keeps the emotions light even when the sentiment turns sad. Like it's always it is always a bit more uplifting, a bit more light than what you've heard in other, you know, maybe prog rock or some of the other stuff that was happening at the same time. You've had your heart broken, but you've still got the yacht. Yeah, yeah. Life's not that bad.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's so interesting. I I'm I'm surprised to hear you guys say that. Um, I mean, I I've I've in the past noticed that some music is very one emotion. Is that a term? We'll go with it. I don't think that's a term. It's very, it's very narrow emotionally. Um some music is all angry and some music is all sad and some music music is all happy. And I've always noticed as a sort of through line of the music that I like, it's more balanced, it's a balanced sort of range of emotions. Um a lot a lot of the music that I listen to can be very upbeat and joyful, but also have that underlying sadness or that underlying edge or whatever. And I think the reason why I like that is because it's more like real life. You know, real life is is always kind of a mix of stuff. You feel a bit down, but you've got to put a happy face on for work or whatever, you know. It's always this kind of complicated mix, and that's what I hear in the yacht rock music. Is I hear I I don't hear something that's vanilla or innocent or basic. I hear something that's got a lot of sadness and grit in it, um, but it's also still getting up and out of bed and wanting to get on with the day.
SPEAKER_03We might have a few surprises in store of what we've selected for tracks today. So just to let everybody know, listening, we've secretly nominated tracks and none of us know what each other have chosen. Right.
SPEAKER_02So we could have a real We've got four four tracks each. We don't know if we've chosen the same tracks as each other. It's starting to sound like we haven't. Um I know both of you for some reason decided to try and find the most like deep cut tracks.
SPEAKER_00No, no, you didn't went the opposite. Oh, interesting. My my first one, I think, is the quintessential yacht rock. Okay, right. Yeah. So you went for sailing. Okay. I did not. I actually don't think sailing is I think on on its nose, obviously it talks about sailing. I actually don't think that is the quintessential one.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah. I was also gonna raise the question or raise the point. I wrote down, do all bands sort of have their yacht rock hit? Like, is is despite the error or genre, it seems like almost every band out there has their big ballad. Or tried to try to try the big hit. Tried to write the big hit. Yeah, nothing else matters or sweet child of mine. Sweet child of mine or whatever. It it seems like most bands have got their their kind of hit. I'm pretty sure I just said that.
SPEAKER_00Did you I don't get it out? I don't think any of that is yacht rock though.
SPEAKER_02At least not you're conveying no no, I'm not saying it's yacht rock, but I'm saying it's like it hits a lot of the same points where it's got the earnest sort of big feels, it's written, it's the chord constructions are similar.
SPEAKER_00Love like yeah, there you go. Yeah. So what are the defining characteristics of yacht rock?
SPEAKER_03Here we go.
SPEAKER_00Good question. I'm out. You guys go first. I would say high production value. Yep. Uh use of elite LA-based session musicians, you know, that's that whole West Coast sound thing. That's that's really where this started. Um, jazz and RB influences, use of electric piano, uh, and then an upbeat rhythm. You know, something like the doobie bounce.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've got smooth but sophisticated jazz R.
SPEAKER_00I think smooth is the keyword. It has to be smooth. I don't have a groove.
SPEAKER_03Elite musicianship. Uh needs to sound expensive in a way. Analog. It needs to be analog. I don't know if we're gonna get into this. I'm not so keen on the modern attempts to do yacht rock where everything's quantized and sound replaced and stuff. No. It kills the kills the room. One of them was quite um auto-tuned. I'm not gonna name the artist, but I was just like, sorry.
SPEAKER_02I that never was was never even on my radar. I thought I just thought it was that period. No, it's late 70s. People have tried to cash in. Of course they have, but you know, John Mayer. I think this is oh that's a that don't bring that one up. That'll start a fight. Charlie Booth, John Mair. I think he did a good job.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Sunrock's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is it you I think you hit the nail on the head with smoothness. I feel like that that seems to be the the defining characteristics for me between all the different songs, is it has to have a groove, it has to be smooth. Um, which I don't know if you'd get the same sort of feel if it is quantized, if it's a drum machine, if it's if it's perfectly on the click. Like so much of it is in the drum groove, which I feel like you can't do that otherwise.
SPEAKER_02It has to feel alive, and I think um another thing, and this is very much what we're describing is very much of the era as well. Um, like the electric keyboards were massive at that time, and not not just in your rock. Um, but for me, I noticed that they all most of most of them have amazing background vocals. The arrangements of the harmonies are incredible, and uh and because they're not auto-tuned, they're just stunning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I can't stand auto tuned, auto-tuned background vocals. Instantly, it's yeah, it sounds flat. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did somebody pick peg? Oh what a song. Because the the background vocals, like the harmonies on that area.
SPEAKER_03I don't feel like that is yacht rock. I don't know what peg is. What is it? Um Steely Dance. Oh, okay, right, right, right, yeah, yeah. Oh, and one thing um that I do want to say before we forget is when we say smooth, it's very hard to play smooth. Yes. So that could be completely underestimated. And if you listen to this music. It's harder to play smooth than edgy. Look at this. How aligned are we? It's very underestimated. Yeah. So people will look at like a song like Billy Jean, right? Which is rock beat one for the whole song, and it's like, okay, cool. Go, you play it. Oh. Not that easy, right? Now, not that Billy Jean's um yacht rock, but it is this is very sophisticated.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I think that's a uh a funny thing that musicians do. It's almost like we do a disservice to ourselves. You know, we work so hard to play things so well, and it's so hard to do that, um, but then no one realizes we're working very hard. Um and they go, Oh, it must be easy, you know, and then they celebrate some of the stuff that's louder or or whatever. Um, and it's like, well, that's kind of easy to do that, but just to hold this groove down, that's the hard bit, you know, or to leave that space and control the space, that's the hard bit, right? You know, to just play loads of notes, it's not actually that hard.
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't know for you guys how it is when you hear a song whether you instantly go to the guitar part, but for me, often a very subtle guitar part by like a Paul Jackson Jr. or someone like that. Because often they're not playing much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then you only notice it sort of a few listens in, and you're like, oh that's just making the song that little that little piece.
SPEAKER_00That's right. I feel like the first thing I hear, even being a guitar player, but it's still it's the groove. It's normally whatever the rhythm section's doing. Interesting. Um which I think that's what makes these songs so great. Is they have more complex rhythm sections than you would expect for pop um of the time.
SPEAKER_02I think I think you would struggle to find better written songs than some of these songs. Oh yeah. You know, Motown's up there for me, some of the greatest songs ever written. Um but these songs are so well constructed.
SPEAKER_03Well, do an analysis of the amount of chords and like if you could break down melodically and harmonically these songs compared to a modern day.
SPEAKER_02But but but it's also in a way that doesn't sound like a m a s a clever musical exercise. No. Like it you don't just work. It just works. You don't hear them working. Yeah, you know, there's there's a lot of really clever.
SPEAKER_00A lot of these albums were written in like a week ago. You know, most of them were actually listening to a Michael McDonald interview this morning. And he was saying, you know, he basically said what you just said. And in those days, he was living in the studio. He spent more time sleeping on the floor of I can't remember which studio he named, but the whatever studio they were recording in. They were spending more time there than in their apartment.
SPEAKER_02I will say I had Rosanna on my list and decided to not include it. I thought it was too obvious. It's such a great song.
SPEAKER_03What do we know? Someone's going out to all the lovers. So for the listeners, who is lesser any? We are listening to Al Giro of the album Morning. And I think that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02That question was also for you, right? Yeah. Because I didn't know either.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Maybe that was a clever move. So we've got Jay Graydon, David Foster, Jeff Beccaro, of course. Abe Leboreal. Oh really? Yeah. Oh cool. So this the I mean this is heavy, heavy players. Yeah. And I'm mucking around.
SPEAKER_02What a groove.
SPEAKER_03I was just gonna say, like, you just mentioned Rosanna.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then we've got a shuffle.
SPEAKER_02Beccaro at his best.
SPEAKER_03So this could sound simple. Because it is very, very smooth. But try and play. Try and play this on the drums.
SPEAKER_00I mean, seriously, good luck. Good luck. I saw Questlove say that Yacht Rock is perfect sitting down dancing music. And that's all three of us are just sitting here grooving right now.
SPEAKER_03You know what? I think Denny softening to the Yacht Rock. If I'm not sure how we're gonna go in terms of uh letting the songs play, but the bridge is stunning.
SPEAKER_02I think we try and just keep them running. Keep it going. Because as we're saying before we hit record, often it is the bridge or the you know the outro or some. That's where the writing is, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Rather than the copy and paste thing we kind of do these days where it's like first chorus, first chorus, you know, low, high, out.
SPEAKER_03I often feel like they stretch out a bit more too. They hit the bridges, and that's when it's like they go, oh, we start going a bit more proggy.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Oh beautiful bulk. Here we go. Ready?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's so well arranged. Here's the big money note coming up. Goosebumps note. I know I can reach out to my hand and talk to this. Oh change. Who's not like drinking their tea and lightly bobbing their toes at the end of the day? That was cool.
SPEAKER_02They also faded it out just before they all lost their pitch.
SPEAKER_00Recording pros.
SPEAKER_02Because we'll we're talking about how hard it is to play smooth, and I think this is part of the point of that is this all of this is so immaculately in groove. And live. Yeah, but isn't that the challenge of you're in the studio and you're whether you're playing to a click or not, you're you're really thinking hard to stay in the right place, but thinking that hard kills your pocket. 100%. So it's that balance between really concentrating and really relaxing at the same time, which I think is the great challenge of all musicians, right? These guys are not thinking too much, right? No, they're just they're just playing fair with their friends. They're that good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I I once had someone say to me that you have to be you can't ever perform higher than 70% of your ability. So if yeah, if you want to be able to play this, you need you need to get your 100% up to the point where this is your 70% so you can relax, you know?
SPEAKER_03We've all got that, we've all had that red light syndrome where you you you can play something. Oh, I'll record it. Oh, no, I can't play it. Oh shit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, two left hands now.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that's almost over. Quite a short song. What do you think, gentlemen? I love it. That's a good one.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Algero was also the first person I ever heard sing Ain't No Sunshine, weirdly.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he did a few covers. I went I went on to become a giant Bill Withers fan, but for some reason I heard his version verse. Oh yeah. Yeah. That was great. Yeah, and that that um I'll take all the credit for the Algero. That Picaro pocket is unreal.
SPEAKER_03Disgusting, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Very, very deep pocket. You lose your car keys in there. Uh here we go. See, this is what I kind of think of as the quintessential yacht rock song. Is this live? I don't think so. I mean, all of their recordings were basically live recordings, though. Sounds different. There he is. The man himself. Okay, who is it? So this is Doobie Brothers. Uh What a Fool Believes. Right. Released in 1978 on the Minute by Minute album. Kenny Loggins and Michael McDonald's.
SPEAKER_02See, when I did my research, I was surprised to see Doobie Brothers popping up on search results. It's because of Michael McDonald. Well, it's because I just think of, you know, long train running and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03It was basically two versions of that band. Right. Pre-Michael McDonald, post-Michael McDonald. Right. Oh.
SPEAKER_00I mean, listen to those vocals.
SPEAKER_02He's got a strange tone to his voice, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. Very much so. Yeah. To me, he's the voice of that sort of that era though.
SPEAKER_03I love how you with the song when you first hear it, you're very thing. Ah, he went very high there. He's surely not gonna go any higher.
SPEAKER_00Oh. Hold on. Here we go. And then he gets the harmonies with Kenny Loggins. Uh I know the song.
SPEAKER_02I didn't recognise it until just then.
SPEAKER_00It's all good.
SPEAKER_02How do they sing that high when they're smoking joints the whole time? I don't get it. On those rocky seas.
SPEAKER_03Freshly barnag varnished wood floorboards on the yacht. Immaculate tink. I'm the same as you, I don't associate Doobie Brothers. No. I mean I associate Michael McDonald, but that's not Doobie Brothers. Long train running. Yeah, yeah. All that stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But you're right, it was a very distinct sound of the Doobie Brothers. Like this is this is not all of their songs. Yep.
SPEAKER_02I'm kind of blown away. I had no idea this was him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I had no idea Kenny Loggins was such a good singer. Like I kind of only knew his hits. And then going through some of this research, holy shit could that guy say unreal. The live version of this that I sent you guys? Yeah. Incredible.
SPEAKER_02But have you noticed that all of these so far, but all these songs have incredible choruses? Yeah. Like I I you know when some people say all the best music's already been written? I hate that saying. I think garbage, it hasn't. But sometimes you think, maybe it has.
SPEAKER_03Like, have they used up all the good choruses? You know? Also, the mileage, like, we're talking before about how much time these guys were spending in the studio. They had so much mileage. Yeah. Which is a huge advantage. You're singing for a living. You're singing hooks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03For a damn living, man.
SPEAKER_02Well, we're talking on a recent episode about how everything back then was much higher stakes. Like, there were actually audiences and albums would be sold, and there was defin a lot of money invested and things like that. They couldn't fuck around with a weak chorus.
SPEAKER_03Or a weak singer.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So we're gonna get quick. Michael, Michael finishes that session at 2.30. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You gotta go to the B. 2.45. Have you seen that skit that Rick Rannister? Yeah. Did you hear the story about when Michael McDonald first saw the skit? No. So apparently he had been they'd been hanging out, it was like a listening party or something, and and somebody he was with, oh this I don't think is yacht wrong. I'm gonna disagree with you on this one. I don't know why. Mostly because that web series I was talking about. So Holland Oats, this is just how it sort of started, right? It was it was always the West Coast sound. Yeah. And then Hollow Notes were actually villains in the little series because they were from the East Coast. They were Philadelphia boys. Yeah. And it's a different sound. So it was the two different I mean, such a good song.
SPEAKER_02My my response is to the web series is go fuck yourself. Because I listen to music, not ideas. And and the same way that the Smash and Pumpkins got disqualified from grunge because they weren't from Seattle, like, fuck off. They're part of the movement, you know, they're part of that sound. Like, listen to this. This has got all the ingredients you need.
SPEAKER_00Especially a jokey series, I just don't care. No, I understand I totally understand your sentiment, and I do agree with the sentiment. I'm a little bit, but it does feel a bit different.
SPEAKER_03I'm a little bit with Mike on this one because okay, I'm out. I don't I don't I don't hear the same type of production.
SPEAKER_00It's more straight up and down to me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not saying it's not part of YoungRock because there's no exact line. No. But it's always This feels almost a bit more motowny. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_02It's definitely got that kind of funk element in it.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love Paul Noves.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for the record, I am not may saying it. I love this song. If Daryl's listening, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I defend my right to be defensive. I just think it's got the chorus, it's got the V Vs, it's got the clever chord shifts, it's smooth, yeah. It's smooth.
SPEAKER_03It doesn't sound to me like the type of session players either. Yeah. It's sound too good. I'd agree. But it doesn't sound like that sort of Toto world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. It's still really good, but it feels more straight up and down. Well, if this isn't Yacht Rock, maybe I don't like Yacht Rock.
SPEAKER_02Next episode is why Hall of Notes is not Yacht Rock. I'm going, I'm going with the song over everything else. I'm really disappointed. I was really looking forward to that song starting.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean it's a great It's a great song. Like, oh, what do we got here? Oh, this is terrible. I hate this song. This isn't Yacht Rock. This is not Yacht Rock. Your picks are bad and you should feel bad.
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the channel. We are listening to Bill Labounty, Living It Up from 1982. You did go for some deeper ones.
SPEAKER_00Steve Lukather, Jeff Picaro, Greg Filling Gaines, Dean Parks. You could almost just take those guys and whatever they were in, that's Yara.
SPEAKER_02I think that's what you did, isn't it? You just Googled Picaro.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, what did Picaro play? So I unashamedly have loved this type of music from before it was cool. And that's not me trying to say I am cool.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. Or a dream. No, no, no. You've liked this. You've liked this music from when it was cool the first time.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm actually 70 years old. Well, Steady, I was alive when this was what year is this? 82. Yeah, I was three. Mum, we'll build the bounty back on. So this I actually was really paying attention to music when I was three as well. Like that's when I first remember like Motown and the big radio songs were really in my head at that time.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah. I threw a real big tantrum when I was little because my mum wouldn't put grease on, the grease soundtrack. I think I got taken to hospital in the end because I was so obsessed and she was so sick of putting it on for me that I just completely lost my mind. So yeah. So we're back with a shuffle. So this is the song is a is a sad tale of living it up. Got the woman. There's some line about from the woman to the wine. Yeah. He's been through some heartbreak, but he's coming through the other side.
SPEAKER_02Would you say the snare sound is a consistent tone for yacht rock or a consistent tone for Picaro?
SPEAKER_03Because I don't really think of this as a Picaro sound, but maybe I'm wrong. This album has got a couple of different drummers on it. Okay. Steve Gadd, um Chip Piccaro, and I think Carlos Vega. It's kind of hilarious to have like nine or ten songs. Right. And you've got like three or four of the best drummers in the world on the album. It's just not fair.
SPEAKER_02And why wouldn't they just go with one of them?
SPEAKER_03Well, have you looked into Steely Damage? They would just change the whole band.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, but they were sort of an anomaly, weren't they?
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03These guys are pretty, pretty serious customers. Maybe it's a scheduling thing as well. Couldn't be. We're gonna do this track on this day, and I want a different sound on this one.
SPEAKER_02You said this was 82? Yeah. So maybe an 82 Picardo isn't the big giant heavyweight, you know, he was by 82? Oh yeah. Well then again, yeah, because that's coming into the throw era of the case. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_03Georgie Porgy and all that was 70s.
SPEAKER_02And Stevie Steve Stevie. Steve Gabb was already a monster in the 70s. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, vocals, you know.
SPEAKER_02I love the raspiness in that.
SPEAKER_03But I mean, we've got like sacks going on here. We've got so much. Yeah. There's David Sanborn on Saks. Oh yeah. Very high production value. I mean, what do you notice about the guitar? Like it's subtle, right?
SPEAKER_02I wasn't even listening to it. Yeah, see? Yeah. I was just thinking about how. Is there a guitar in there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, whether you've never picked up a guitar or you've been playing for years and feel like you've hit a wall, often guitar lessons are for you. Lessons are one-on-one, and every session is built around your goals, your taste, and the songs you actually want to play. All of the fundamentals of technique and theory are covered in an accessible way and applied within the songs you're learning, so you progress faster and actually enjoy the ride. If you've always wanted to play, now's the time. If you've plateaued, Augman Guitar Lessons will unlock your playing, rebuild your confidence, and get you moving again. This would be a lot easier if the two chuckleheads behind me would shut up. Head to AugnGuitarLessons.co.nz or email info at aucklandguitarlessons.co.nz to find out more. Speaking of smooth transitions.
SPEAKER_02I just love it how you go so much closer to the mic when Auckland guitar decisions.
SPEAKER_03Mike is the yacht rock of podcasts. Don't give it away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh.
SPEAKER_00So this is Kenny Loggins, This Is It. Uh, released in 1979 on the album Keep the Fire. This was written by Kenny and Michael McDonald.
SPEAKER_02So you've just gone for my Michael McDonald's stuff and he's just gone for Picaro stuff. And apparently I haven't chosen any of rock.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean they're I'm gonna know. They're all kind of the same. Like they're all they're all playing on different albums together.
SPEAKER_03Speaking of dynamics, you guys did an episode on dynamics. How how low did this start in? Yeah, this one is really good for dynamics. That's a cool crew. I like that. The sound is is all over the place, really. Rhythmically. There's a lot in the background. There's our Arta RB.
SPEAKER_02Oh, nice. And another song.
SPEAKER_03Well, you're welcome. You better like my next song. I mean, Kenny Loggins, like, we know him from well, for me especially, like, Top Gun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that was all I knew him from episode.
SPEAKER_03Go back and have a look listen to Danger Zone. The vocals on that. I mean, it's a funny song in a way, that you know, the connotation with the film and everything, but I mean the vocals are just wild.
SPEAKER_00I definitely underappreciated Kenny Loggins for years until I'm doing the research for this episode. He's one of those artists I'm gonna go back and do a bit of a deep dive.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00And he had this big period where he was doing some not such big hit stuff, but yeah, I mean most of these guys, they were all over the place on other people's records too, right? Like if you actually look at the liner notes, they're everywhere. Yeah. I I uh And now you can hear the harmony with Michael McDonald. Yeah. Who played drums on this? Anyone know? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I did this song, believe it or not, and this was not planned, on a cruise ship gig. And I can tell you, like the the chart, you'd be surprised how complicated this song is. I believe it. Fine, let's get it. What's it called again? This is it. This is a this is no joke.
SPEAKER_01Who makes the choice of Africa?
SPEAKER_00So in the the liner notes and title, all it said was Kenny Loggins. I was like, I'm pretty sure there's more than just him. Come on, Kenny.
SPEAKER_02The first result I got said Keith Moon. I'm pretty sure what's good. No, I don't think it's Keith Moon. Tris Triss Imboden? Uh yep, yep.
SPEAKER_03Is it Imboden or Imboden? He played on Foot Loose as well, though. Oh yeah. Kenny Loggins Foot Loose. Notoriously hard taskmaster, apparently, Kenny Loggins. Oh, really? Really drive his bands quite quite hard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a lot of a lot of uh famous artists did that, didn't they? A lot of the good ones. Alright, my my second one is coming up. Let's see if this passes the live chat. I feel quite beaten already.
SPEAKER_00I can already tell you gonna reject it. I mean I friggin' love Chicago, so right away I wanna accept it. There's only so much room on the yacht. You're real close, Danny. That's not quite there yet. We can drop you off at the rocks.
SPEAKER_02Maybe my maybe my tastes look too good.
SPEAKER_00Maybe. Yeah. Maybe that's what it is. See, I would give this one. This one feels more yacht rock to me than oh no. Does this seaworthy? Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_02It's definitely got the session playing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, maybe it's actually now I'm hearing it through different ears. Maybe it's a bit Motown again. Maybe I just like funky, gritty stuff.
SPEAKER_00No, this is quite a complex groove though. There's a lot going on in there. Yeah. We're navigating dangerous waters on this one. Yeah, this one, I give you this one. This one's yeah, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_02I love the fact that it took a while to start. The big intro, like I think it's before that don't bore us get to the chorus thing started. And I just I love hearing music breathe, and modern music doesn't breathe anymore. It's just like straight in, straight out, you know.
SPEAKER_03There's just so much interest in the songs. That's right. But they're they're genuinely interesting. I don't know where this is gonna go.
SPEAKER_02And you can you can literally sit there and choose to focus on just the drums or just The base or just the knees exactly and have a totally different experience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The orange section is what I've always loved about these guys. So good.
SPEAKER_01What about that?
SPEAKER_00Come on.
SPEAKER_03Now we're on the side.
SPEAKER_00Here we go.
SPEAKER_02Now we're grooving. All the key changes. The song has about five or six key changes in it.
SPEAKER_03Got like a better few too many machitos on the back of the. Slow down up there.
SPEAKER_02What about that?
SPEAKER_03How did they transition back to the biggest? That was very nice. That was slick. It's quite funny because these guys also, like the Doobie Brothers, completely changed style and went full uh David Foster pop. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You're the inspiration and you know those songs. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I love bands that you see move throughout their careers. Like actually try something new and don't stay static.
SPEAKER_02Unlike certain bands that found their sound in the late 90s and never changed it. Who are we who's the dick ass?
SPEAKER_03I think Danny genuinely is upset.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna be the last episode of the podcast.
SPEAKER_02And again, it's the era where where you drop in if you need to, or you try and get a live take, right? So all these groove changes and stuff, you're really hearing the movement and the you can kind of you can hear the fact that they're looking at each other and watching each other, and on I'm sure if you analyzed it close enough, you'd hear moments where they're not a hundred percent in sync, and you know. Oh now we got a fireworks shallow. Yeah, we are I didn't know that was there. So uh so I got that in. Yeah, I think we'll let it come. I think so.
SPEAKER_03Captain Danny. I want to get it on the original track.
SPEAKER_02I wanna get it from the album.
SPEAKER_03I think that's the fireworks in the park, isn't it? Probably. My next track is special to me, isn't it? Yeah, uh this one was very special to me actually. The whole album was shared with me by uh amazing drummer, a friend of mine, Stephen Webster, and he is like, dude, you gotta check this album out. This is Pages. 1981. Who's the artist? Pages. Oh, that's the artist. Yeah. Tell me. Okay. I don't think I know them. No, neither do I. I'll drop some knowledge on you in a in a minute, which is gonna blow your mind.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that. I love that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_03So Pages is Mr. Mister. Oh, yeah. So it's uh Steve George and Richard Page, and it's like a steely dance situation where it's two people. Right. And this is Mr. Mister.
SPEAKER_01But this chorus, oh, it's just I have to do it.
SPEAKER_02Well, this is one of the reasons why I I'm not that worried about AI diluting music because I feel like music's already been diluted. Like, why do we have music like this now? You know what I mean? Like it's it's it's so musical and surprising and moving, and it's all those things rolled together, and it's not just a lazy beat or loop kind of you know what I mean? Even if it was like a new version of it that I didn't personally like, I'd love to hear something like that be in the sort of center of the charts again. Yeah. Rather than have to be some kind of search we had to do. All the BBs coming in. Yeah. Here we go. Here's our progress. Got quite a polyrhythmic kind of phrasing to it, isn't it?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Oh big Proggy bridge.
SPEAKER_02Oh, key change. Oh. Nice.
SPEAKER_00So we're in for a walk.
SPEAKER_03We're in rocky waters and we're gonna bring it in for a smooth landing very soon.
SPEAKER_00This is just before we get into the harbor, right?
SPEAKER_03We're just we need to need to make it we need to make it around that corner. Five five knot sign has just popped up. Very um heartfelt lurks. What's it about, you know? There's no uh love.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Come on, give it up. I'm getting love you.
SPEAKER_00I'm no have we lost the ability to sing live probably like this. Probably. I mean, how often do people have to these days?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I mean I've heard some incredible singers in my time, um, but they've not been in the pop world. They've been like in the kind of jazz fusion, RB, that kind of world. When I've been to NAM a few times, um seeing people like Layla Hathaway, I saw her singing live, and some of those singers are extraordinary, you know, absolutely extraordinary. Um but again, it's not something you now expect to hear out of the pop charts. And again, you don't get the mileage on it as much, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, especially if there's not as many gigs. Right. So yeah, that whole album, Piccaro, Vinny Calyuta, oh wow, uh Jay Graydon, Abla Boreal, all the typical suspects that you expect.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the next one is a mic. Someone had to.
SPEAKER_00Someone had to. Is the shuffle the official rhythm of the yacht? Well, it's funny because I don't think he played that many shuffles. Yeah. I know he I know he has, but he he I watched an interview where he was talking about how much he hated the shuffle. Oh yeah. And then he played this song, and then everyone wanted to shuffle after that.
SPEAKER_03I, from a drumming perspective, I still have never ever heard anyone play this on the drums like this.
SPEAKER_00Because he does the 16 notes with uh just one hand, eh? Yeah, the shuffle's one hand. Yeah. With all the drums. It gives it that little that that sort of flow.
SPEAKER_02I don't think I knew that. He's doing all of that with one hand. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03The the hi-hat part.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Even though it's uh I'm pretty sure. It's a yeah, it's a rolling triplet, so he's doing I think one uh on one hand, and then in between the an one an uh, the and on the left hand. Wow. It's 164 BPM, like depending on how you're thinking of it in the halftime or the normals. Oh good. But it's really fast. I mean.
SPEAKER_02See, if my first pick got disqualified for the reasons it did, but isn't I mean I love the song, I think this should should be on the list, but isn't it heavier and grittier? Isn't it not smooth enough? I mean, these guys are playing it so smooth, I don't know what I'm saying exactly, but but I mean, but it's but it's not like they're trying to make it super smooth. It's it's a it's a heavier song, right? Yeah. And they're not playing it in a kind of a Todo, it's actually quite froggy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, yeah. They are. Does that mean they get disqualified my like like my first pick, or does that mean my first pick makes a list again?
SPEAKER_03In my in my little brain, I don't think of Rosanna as being Yot Rock.
SPEAKER_02Ah.
SPEAKER_03But maybe I'm not maybe I've got them separated.
SPEAKER_02See, I thought Rosanna was an obvious pick, and that's why I wrote it down but didn't bring it. But I think I kind of agree with you mainly because I want revenge on the first one.
SPEAKER_03Daddy's still upset about that. I was even a little bit suspect about my first pick because I felt like it was such a big hit. I almost feel like there's a little bit of a hint that Yacht Rock is a little bit under the radar. Right.
SPEAKER_00Oh see, I never got that. Okay. No. Yeah. I think they were all like most of them were massive hits. Okay. A lot of these songs were number one hits when they were charting.
SPEAKER_03Alright.
SPEAKER_01Meet you all the way.
SPEAKER_00See, to me, this is this is smooth. It's got those sort of sappy lyrics.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. It's not that smooth though.
SPEAKER_03We don't want it to be. And who is the Rosanna in question? Do we know? No. Apparently Lukatha was dating Rosanna Arquette at the time. Alright. But they swear it wasn't about her.
SPEAKER_00They said they had already written the song and just the three-syllable name just worked. But then I think there's other people in the band that were saying we think he had a bit of a crush on uh Buddy's girlfriend there.
SPEAKER_02Is this is this like a non-horn section? Is this like the Earth, Wind, and Fire Horn section or anything like that? This is all keys. Those horns are keys.
SPEAKER_03This is all Steve Picaro. I think he led a whole bunch of different synth solos. What? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Not not now. I mean the horns from before. Oh sorry, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Tom Scott and big, big yeah, big big session names. But they have that two different.
SPEAKER_02They have that kind of Earthwind and Fire sound to them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. The low harmony there. Yeah. Did Earthhorn and Fire have their own horn section, or did they use Yeah, because Phil Collins used them. Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. This one.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02It sounds like a Phil Collins line, right?
SPEAKER_03The ultimate song that you cannot do in a covers band? I mean, singing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or anything. Bass.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Guitar. I mean, the guitar solo in this song is absolutely bonkers. Right. Well. Have you listened? Have you had a good listen to the guitar solo on this? No.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna be kicking off very shortly. But isn't it also worth pointing out, like, there's a lot of stuff going on, but every musician is really controlling their space. Oh yeah. Like no one's You can hear everything. Exactly. The arrangement of the kick and the bass is exactly as it should be. No one's like bla bla bla blah whatever, you know? No click. Right. Well yes, there is. His name's Picaro.
SPEAKER_03Oh what?
SPEAKER_02Fucking. Love that groove. Back in a time where musicians were able to bring their goods and not leave all the interesting stuff off because it wouldn't get selected.
SPEAKER_00There's some weird time signatures in this too. Dorian.
SPEAKER_03Dorian.
SPEAKER_00Love that note.
SPEAKER_03He just absolutely goes off. Like. Yeah. So I had Steve Picaro on my podcast, the NZ Drummer podcast. And it was interesting talking to him because I did ask him about the whole one take thing, and he's like, no, I mean, they thought it was super weird to just be sitting around doing loads and loads of takes. They're like, no. I mean, Jeff just went in, laid that down. Just do it.
SPEAKER_00Just play it perfectly.
SPEAKER_02Like that Clint Eastwood thing. Someone asked Clint Eastwood that my song was about to start. Someone asked Clint Eastwood, um, can we do another take? A second take? And apparently he went, why? Do you want to waste everybody's time?
SPEAKER_00The confidence.
SPEAKER_03But it's interesting that there was almost a bit of bravado around, like, they they just found it super naf and weird. Like, what another what why? Another take. And he really viewed Lukather as like an artist, like a Miles Davis. He's like, whatever he does is his statement on the song. Right. And that's it.
SPEAKER_02That's how you should look at it. And that's it.
SPEAKER_03Like we just leave it. Yep. Would you would you edit Miles Davis? Yeah, no, of course not. You don't want to. No. You want him.
SPEAKER_02This is a great song. This is uh Alan Parsons project Eye in the Sky. Have you seen uh Costal Powers?
SPEAKER_03Project.
SPEAKER_00You made a comment just a second ago about the bravado, and I think that's actually kind of an interesting point to touch on with Yacht Rock's. This was very emotional music that these men were writing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00In a in an era of real machismo. You know, we're talking about that sort of like punk rock scene, heavy metal, um, all that in the zeitgeist at the same time. And these guys had the confidence to just get out with their heart on their sleeve and to write some pretty um vulnerable music. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, a counter to that though is that yes, the punk rock thing was rising, but the superficial um 80s culture hadn't fully kicked in yet until later, and also the rise of like action stars was happening at this time, but wouldn't fully realize until later in the 80s. But this was a this was you know the 70s really, wasn't it? And even the first couple of years of the 80s was where the era of James Taylor and Elton John and you know, where grown men wrote about their feelings, you know, and I think it actually went the wrong way later in the 80s, and then the age of cynicism and so on, you know, it took us maybe 30 years to come back, maybe longer swims and roundabouts.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we had a really tantalizing window, you bookmarked it at like 75 to 84, where you still needed to play instruments to make music. Yeah, and we're just sort of coming to the end of that, you know. Even guys like Phil Collins, they were starting to use the technology and still making great music, but it was started to really broaden out to a lot of synth, a lot of electronic drums were new, so they were cool. Yeah. And you lose a bit of interest. The electron interest.
SPEAKER_02In the early days it was pioneering, like the way that Steely Dan would record a snare drum and then literally loop tape and create a loop by literally making a visible loop of tape to get an even snare sound across the thing. Like it's really creative. Oh, yeah. And such an interesting, playful idea, um, but cut forward enough time and then it becomes a lazy thing, just throw a loop in there or whatever, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I've spoken to engineer or one good engineer friend about this whole thing about capturing a live take and capturing that live analog feel. And he sort of was saying that it's unrealistic these days to go through an analogue process. It's just not really gonna happen. No, of course not.
SPEAKER_02But for a million reasons.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And but he said what you can do and get the same result is is track live. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_03And you're actually doing the same thing but being captured digitally. Yeah. And he said, lots of bands come in and do that, and they hear it, and they go, Oh, yeah, hold on, we can't do that.
SPEAKER_02We did that on a recent album we were involved with called Noise Play, where the bassist and drummer tracked all together and did one shot to the whole songs. Right. Um we were recording in a smaller studio where it was a little harder to get the guitars in one go, so I did the guitars on a different day, but I recorded the guitars for the whole record in one afternoon. Yeah. And I and I decided I wanted to get one shot catches. And uh I'll just do it again and do it again and do it again, and then get to a point where I kept mistakes. There was actually one song called No Going Home where I said I want to go to the solo and play it and then come back out. I assume I'll overdub it later and do the real one later, but I want the sound of me going to the solo.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So I did the whole song and actually got the solo right and then kept the solo. So it was cool. And I and it's I've done loads of recordings in my life and and I usually listen to them in a very self-critical, self-hating way, like most artists do. But I find that album is of my stuff, the stuff I look back on going, oh, I'm really proud of that. I really enjoy it. Because I I I listen to it knowing it's real, you know. Sorry, that vocal got me.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. So this is I Just Can't Let Go by David Pack 1985. Towards the end of our time frame here. David Pack was the lead vocalist on Ambrosia. The vocals. See if you can spot who's gonna bounce pop up in the chorus. He was everywhere. Look out!
SPEAKER_02It's coming for you. So apart from Rosanna, all your picks are super smooth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I wasn't really thinking about smooth as a yacht rock thing. Not not smooth like this.
SPEAKER_00I could have also just picked any Michael McDonald song.
SPEAKER_01It sounds like a barbershop vocal arrangement.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. A lot of harmonies throughout most of these songs.
SPEAKER_02But just the way that they're delaying it, dum dum dum dum, you know.
SPEAKER_00Like sophisticated harmonies. Exactly, yeah. Not just a double up. That's right, yeah. Not just a pedal that gives you a high and low harmony automatically, you know?
SPEAKER_02God, those things are awful. Well, especially on vocalists. I've worked I've I've worked with a vocalist once who had one of those things live. Yep. And it's like it's good for a second, and then and then it just you know, it'll go into like a key change or there be a passing chord or whatever, and it just won't sync, and it's like, oh you know, it's not it's never the same as having no studio session guys that can actually do the parts, you know. Or just not like just anyone. Yeah. Just like real people, yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_03Is this the sappiest one we've had today? Yeah, this is I think merging on very RB as opposed to the yacht, but well I think they I feel like the RB influence is pretty key to that that subgenre.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting because there's a there's moments along the way where they step out of the key just a little bit. We passed it already, I'll point it out when it comes back. But it's like if you take those surprises out, you end up with something quite bland. Yep. Like a like a lot of other stuff, you know, which is like uh but it's like you you gotta get the balance right with this stuff. It's gotta be smooth, but it can so easily tip into predictable and boring.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they just put these little ch one chord will go from minor to a major or something that'll just change it.
SPEAKER_03That's a good word. Like a lot of this is quite unpredictable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Again, horns, yeah, like that actual. It kind of came out of nowhere, didn't it? It wasn't in any other part of the song.
SPEAKER_02Actual solos. Hmm.
unknownWell now.
SPEAKER_02It's funny how sex solos were such a thing of the eighties, eh? Let's bring them back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03They're going for it too eight. That four there?
SPEAKER_02That one little shift. That one? Oh, they repeated it for me. That was convenient of them.
SPEAKER_03Lot of tension and release in the in the rhythm section. Ad libs is also a feature of this sort of stuff. Yeah. Vocal ad libs here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because the same way they that they would often have long intros, they'd often have long outros. Yeah. They weren't afraid of just instrumental sections. You try getting anything instrumental on the radio these days. Yeah. It's unbelievable. They'll say, nope. I even had an artist recently, I produced a song for her um the drums don't come in until like the second verse. Right. And it got rejected. Drums have to start in the first 20 seconds. Oh sorry. Now they're just making up new rules. There was never a rule.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Who's this? Reminiscing Little River Band. Another band that had a different sort of lifespan. Yeah, it was Farnum. Run on Farnum, wasn't it? Yeah, it wasn't. Not on this. No, not later on. This was 90s. This is literally one of my favourite songs. So good. You familiar, Dan? Yep. How do a bunch of white boys from Australia do this? Australia had an amazing number of like kick ass artists.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I said that.
SPEAKER_00They still got a really good music scene. I love all the artists that come over here.
SPEAKER_03They're incredible. I was only joking. No, you won't. I mean, in XS. I was just about to say NXS. ACDC. Unbelievable. People forget how big NXS were at the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. Huge. I never knew ACDC was Australian as a kid. I kind of figured that out later, but I loved Ice House. Oh yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I love the subtle bongo, just hand on the left ear. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The drums are right back in the mix and the percussions, but I am a big fan of like percussions and bungos. The number of times I've been in the studio working on a track on putting bongos in everyone's life. Take the bongos out because what's wrong with bongos? More bongos. Yeah. Just because I love Lotus 70s music, you know? I love the feeling. I don't understand why people have an attitude about it. Tell me. Tell me.
SPEAKER_03Danny Bongos McCray. What is that? And we've got a trumpet solo on the side as well. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Did you barbershop? Yeah. Absolutely. I was just thinking about also when you edit lots of vocals together like that these days, you you tend to put like a matching fade across the end of all of the lines. A bit of a change there. And so it ha yeah, nice change there. Um but you you end up like having like a very even edit on the end of each line so that it's very, very tidy, which makes it sound unrealistic. And when you go back and to this stuff, or it's one of the reasons why I love listening to side B of Abby Road with all the harmonies they did, and you can hear that they all kind of tail off slightly different times. And it's just that movement that gives us you know this sort of humanity, you know?
SPEAKER_03Humanity piece only works if you're really good as well, you know? If you're good human.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, like there are some like I love the police, right? And often along the way, um, Stuart Copeland and Andy Summers would try and do BVs. And it always had a bizarre because Copeland's American and neither him or Andy can really sing. So yeah, you just get like salonely, salonely, and it sings beautiful voice on the top. And there's something so awesome about that, you know? Yeah. So I don't know if it has to be like high-level all the time. Just have to be real, authentic, yeah, yeah. You know? Or take authentic. Take stretch marks, you know? Stretch marks and pups.
SPEAKER_00We'll go dancing in the stretch marks in this stuff.
SPEAKER_03This is pretty slow. This is pretty good. This this group was universally known as a vocal powerhouse. Yeah. I love that little dropout. Trumpet solo? Yeah. I mean, what haven't you got in this song? Very nostalgic song.
SPEAKER_02What kind of groove is that? Sort of got a bit of a swing to it, isn't it? Yeah, is it 16th swing?
SPEAKER_03Slightly swung 16th?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful. Great song.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so if this one doesn't pass, podcast is over. I think this is the most, surely, this is the closest to the uh to the mandate.
SPEAKER_01I'm not sure then.
SPEAKER_03I don't know if I'm leaving this on my yard. It's smooth as fuck. Oh, yeah, it's super californian.
SPEAKER_02It's super Californian.
SPEAKER_03But it's not LA session, is it? Could be.
SPEAKER_00Actually, I think this is back in.
SPEAKER_03What was there? Oh no, like really big hit? I don't remember.
SPEAKER_01Makes me feel fun.
SPEAKER_03Seals and cross. Seals and crossing crap. Yeah, this is this is Yarron. Is this seven 71? God, I didn't expect questions. This is where I reveal how secretly nerdy I am about dates and yarn.
SPEAKER_01Looking it up, looking it up.
SPEAKER_03What was the first question? I think Diamond Girl. I think Diamond Girl was Jeff Caro's first big session track.
SPEAKER_01Some of Jim Gordon.
SPEAKER_02Jim Gordon, yeah. There you go. Legendary session cover. How does this not fit the picks?
SPEAKER_00This does. This does.
SPEAKER_01Some of the bees.
SPEAKER_00I think at the start it was so stripped back, I don't know if I'd give it that high production value. But I feel like that's come in.
SPEAKER_03I think that's what made me hesitate.
SPEAKER_02I think what's strong to me though is that the criteria like at the start wasn't the criteria I was looking for songs under. Like, well the high production value wasn't. As you see it on site, I don't think I agree with it. I think it probably applied to a lot of it, but not all of it.
SPEAKER_03We'll we're like the Metrodis waiting on the yacht with the little towels. And we're just waiting to see if you're on the list.
SPEAKER_02I didn't grow up on a yacht, so maybe uh I'm disqualified.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm just really focusing on the great melodies, the great harmonies. I guess the smoothness and the vocal melodies. Yeah. You know. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Makes me feel fun.
SPEAKER_03I love how earnest those vocals are. Some sort of going for it. Like really pushing for the note, eh?
SPEAKER_02Well, we need to hear what other people think, what our listeners think.
SPEAKER_03Indeed.
SPEAKER_02I want to be validated. I want people to write in and say that I was right. But they can leave reviews on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and they can find various ways to message us. We have a Facebook group as well. You can find our website which is What Do We Know Show. No, it's not. It's What Do We Not What Do We Know Fuck. What is it? Our website is what do we know.co.nz and our Instagram and Facebook is What Do We Know Show where you can find on all of those you can find links to our group where we take part in conversations and run polls and have a bit of extra content and things like that. We've also got a buy me a coffee page, which is what do we know show as well. Uh and um that's where you can give us your money. Um we can have high production. That's right. We can get singing lessons and some yacht rock uh standards to this podcast. We'll get it up there in the end. Um but we'd like to finish each show with a conclusion or verdict and outlining anything any of us have learned or had our minds changed about. Who would like to take the lead on that?
SPEAKER_03Uh well one thing I didn't talk about was I did infiltrate some Facebook groups uh that are yacht rock focused and they're very active and very passionate. Okay. Um and I actually got some good good tips for albums from those groups. Uh not the ones I've shared today.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so you've started actually chatting there. No, just having a look at it.
SPEAKER_03Surprisingly good stuff. Um I I've learned a little bit about this how what I guess really is a group of passionate people who genuinely do enjoy this music and want to sort of celebrate it in the form of a group. And whether it's called yacht rock, I mean I'm surprisingly as long as people are enjoying it, I'm kind of okay with it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I disagree. What have you learned, Danny? I've learned that um everyone's a bastard. Get out of my house. Um I guess I learned that I possibly didn't really know what your rock was. If your criteria are correct, and I didn't even really look into the criteria as much, so I can't defend my decision. But I I hadn't paid much attention to the era before that we decided to do this episode, so I've enjoyed researching it and rediscovering a lot of these songs. I just think of these songs as just radio songs from back then. I don't know if that's uh I didn't think I learned anything apart from that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I kind of feel the same. It was just a fun sort of it was a good chance to reminisce and uh go back into some of these old songs that you know I've known and loved for years. Um I don't know if I necessarily learned anything. I did want to read out one comment I found online though that I thought was pretty great. So, Yacht Rock. The music sounds yuppie, i.e., this is not for this is not folk music about how hard life is. It never breaks a sweat, smells like clean linen, and feels like a luxury seaside resort today. Yacht rock is wearing a mid-tone sweater on your shoulders, a sleeve tied and a noose knot around your neck, driving a yacht out on the open seas, unhurried and unbothered with power or brute force. We're here to ruminate about love, not chase criminals or fight the powers that be. And I feel like that's that's what I get out of it. It's just just chill. Just a smooth vibe, and that's really what I think is so great about the music.
SPEAKER_02I think another thing that's bothering me about the name is that the people who I've met who are literally like that, the the people who dress like that and come from money and have yachts, I don't think they listen to music like that. That's a different conversation. Yeah, douches and they listen to like douche music, you know? Like the corporate sort of lifestyle, you know. Well, I mean at the end of the day, once you music or something, you know.
SPEAKER_00None of the musicians making this were they don't they didn't know yachts at the time. Like they were all work like hardworking obsession musicians.
SPEAKER_03Well, I have that sort of Miami vice in my head with yacht rock, you know, the mauve sweater and pink. Yeah, I don't think those characters listen to this stuff. But they would have at the time, because it was cool. At the time. They would have been into it. So they've sort of been locked with. I guess so.
SPEAKER_00One of the things, one of my takeaways from it also was I don't think people quite realize the legacy that Yacht Rock really had. Like those grooves were so friggin' good that they've been sampled all over the place. Could you actually throw on bonus too? No, we have to rap. I know. But this is this is sort of a rapping thing to me was the music itself was so good that it actually inspired other people to make music off of it. And a lot of the grooves from Yacht Rock were sampled in all sorts of different genres. So that was something I think we should actually touch on a little bit because it speaks to the legacy of the music.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Regulators. You recognize this one?
SPEAKER_00So when the groove kicks in, this is a Michael McDonald groove. I keep forgetting.
SPEAKER_03Which hasn't been changed much at all.
SPEAKER_00Not at all. They add a bit of bass in there, that's it.
SPEAKER_03Jeff Bicaro? And they've been east on bass on this track?
SPEAKER_00So when your groove is that good that a Yacht Rock song can become this, you know it's something special.
SPEAKER_02Okay, here's my final question. What was Yacht Rock called before that stupid web series named it Yacht Rock?
SPEAKER_03A U R the Rock or the West Coast Sound.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There you go.
SPEAKER_03Let's get back to that. Oh, maybe with that.
SPEAKER_00We can go to West Coast Sound, that's fine.guitarlessons.co.mz or email info at auckland guitarlessons.co dot Mz to find out more.