10. Mike's Melted Face: Tommy Emmanuel Concert Review

I warned him. I told him there would be repercussions, no matter how much Botox he used in preparation. Watching Tommy Emmanuel on YouTube is one thing, but seeing him live is another. Mike was excited but didn't take the warning seriously, and now he is permanently disfigured. On today's episode we relive Mike's first time seeing Tommy Emmanuel live, the moment he met the man himself backstage, and the impromptu private performance that finished him off completely.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Good afternoon, Danny. Good morning. No, it's afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

It's morning somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

That's true. I guess we never really know when people are listening to these.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

That's right. That's right. Might be the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

So um I've it's taken me a little while, but my face has recovered. It was a little bit melted there for a while. Um What did you think of the show?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Well, it was interesting for me uh watching Tommy Emmanuel live again after all these years because um, as I mentioned constantly, I worked with him a lot and toured with him a lot. Um I don't know how many times I've seen him live, but I've usually watched him from backstage.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

And the very, very first time I saw him live was when he was part of a guitar show where I think from memory there were four guitarists in the same show. And this would have been 98, 99. I don't even know why I went. Uh I didn't have any money back then, so I'm not sure if I would have bought the ticket. Snuck it. One of the one of the guitarists in the show was um a promoter I did a lot of work with. So it's very there's a very good chance he gave me tickets. Um, but I remember going to the show sort of not knowing anything about anyone. And I was also totally ignorant when it came to anything to do with that style of music, that kind of f American folk or bluegrass or or a lot of the country roots. So I knew nothing about it. I was I was a kid who grew up in the eighties and nineties in New Zealand and that just wasn't part of our culture, right? So um went to the show, I remember thinking it was pretty interesting, quite liked it. Um weirdly, Tommy didn't stand out to me on that show, I don't think. Uh probably because I just didn't really understand anything. And anyway, a few years later I was invited to to go on the first tour with him, and I still didn't know anything about him. And when I stood in the wings on the first show of that first tour, I was standing there as he started, I was standing there with my mouth wide open, um, and this look of utter d amazement. And um one of the other people involved in the show came over to me and said, Is this the first time you've seen him? And I said, Yeah. He's pretty good. Well, he goes, He'll make you want to practice more and give up all at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. So I've seen him ever since then, you know, from the wings, but this was my first time going to a show and sitting in the audience and watching him, and it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

I totally understand that feeling now of exactly what you mean, you know. It's very inspiring seeing somebody play like that at that level, especially at that age. Um, you know, that's that's mind-blowing. And then the flip side of it a little bit, you know, it kind of creeps into the back of your head like, holy crap, I could never do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

But yeah, no, that was um it was really cool. We we um obviously, you know, Danny had spoken with Tommy before the show and said, Hey, it'd be great if we could catch up with you. Um, and Tommy um emailed back really quickly saying, Yeah, you know, meet up for soundcheck before the show and stuff. I wasn't sure if if Danny was um telling the truth or not. I wasn't sure if we were actually gonna get let in or get kicked out. We show up to the front of the uh uh Auckland Town Hall and there's not a soul there. Umried about that. Steve, who was supposed to let us in, was nowhere to be seen. And I was like, oh Danny, you're full of shit.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, even I was like, what if there's a mix-up? Everyone's gonna think, oh come on.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, come on. So we we show up at the at the back door and kind of wave at the security person. Um excuse me. We don't know if he passes anything.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Can you let us in? Yeah, yeah. And of course, she doesn't know anything about why we're there.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah, so so we we we rock in and um Danny says, you know, I'm Danny McCrum, and she looks at us like so.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I don't think I left a space. I'm Danny McCrum.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, oh you don't know me? No, he didn't do it like that. But he said, you know, uh, we're here to here to see Tommy.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Um and I just asked her, I just asked her to go and ask him.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

And and so we we heard her go around and we immediately heard um Tommy, you know, oh Danny McCrum, or you know, yeah, send him back and um just immediately made you feel at ease. Yeah. Like that was the thing I was struck with right a right away was you know, for me, this was such a surreal experience. I've been, you know, watching Tommy's stuff for decades at this point. Right. Um and all of a sudden you're you know, you're in a a small room standing there and and meeting one of your guitar heroes. So yeah, that was that was an incredible experience. I don't think I'll ever forget um the sort of surreal feeling where you know I've been somebody who's been going to hundreds of shows for years. It's it's sort of what I really enjoy doing. That was the first time I've ever been backstage or in like a dressing room with someone um of that caliber.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

So yeah, that was really cool. Yeah, and he is a great dude. And that that was something that had a a big impact on me because I first met him when I was about 22, I think, or something like that. And obviously it was playing as extraordinary, but um it was actually how cool a guy he is and how professional he is. Those those were the two things that probably had more of an impact on me, funnily enough. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, yeah, I could I I see exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, yeah, I kind of expected nothing less. I knew it would all be, you know, lots of laughs, lots of hugs, lots of jokes. Yeah, it was. Um the jokes were immediately at my expense, which is Yeah. Okay. So I loved it. I thought it was hilarious. He's always been like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

And he had oh man. Um you know, you meet people every once in a while that just have so many good, quick, sharp one-liners, and like within the first five minutes of us being there, I was he probably had three or four different jokes. I was like, shit, I gotta remember that. Can't remember a single one of them.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

He he was it was less so this time. It was because I've never been someone who remembers jokes, and he's one of these people who constantly remembers jokes, and he's like, Yeah, this one, this one, this one, and I've just got nothing. Yeah, and then I'm just like spend the whole, especially on a long van drive. It can actually get a bit old. Yeah. After a while, I've got nothing to say. I'm just like, ha ha ha, you know, and after a while it's like, can we stop the jokes now?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

But I mean it was so cool um just seeing the way he treats everybody, too. Yeah, you know, um uh like obviously you guys are old friends, but you know, I'm a complete stranger, nobody, um, and just immediately meets you with with you know open arms and open heart and and was very generous with his time. And um you even saw the way he was treating just the you know the the staff um at the venue as well. Just so such a genuine person, and it's such a um it's such a nice thing to see, you know. You never you never really know how it's gonna go in a situation like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I'll retell a story I've told before, but um he w there was a a morning where on this particular tour they had asked me to be in charge of planning all the time frames. Um I wasn't like tour manager or anything like that, but I was just helping them because I was the local one. It was long before we had GPS in our phones and things, so we were using the good old school matchbox and stuff, and I had to figure out how long it would take to get everywhere so we could make sure we got to the various spaces in time. And this particular day we had a very, very long drive. I can't remember where the drive was taking us from and to, but um we were gonna be on the road for most of the day, and we had um this very tight amount of time to get the sound check. And so it was like, right, we have to be up at this time, we have to be in the van at that time, we have to be on the road, I had to you know factor in things like stopping for a bite to eat and things like that, toilet breaks and things. Um did all that, had it all worked out, and if I if if it was so tight, if nothing goes wrong, then we'll get to sound check at the next theatre in time, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Uh nothing ever goes wrong.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Nothing ever goes wrong, yeah. That reminds me, there was a different I think it might have been the same tour, but there was a a moment where this is now a different story, where we were again on a tight schedule and we were in Auckland and we were getting on to the motorway to go north and we got on downtown like right before the harbour bridge, and just as we got onto the on-ramp, the traffic stopped and it just stopped. And we later found out what had happened was a flagpole on the bridge had fallen off and it landed across the bridge. Bad engineers, not maintaining the structures, and uh and the traffic was just not going anywhere. It got to the point where we got out of the van and sat on the grass, just hung out for a while, and we're like, well, fuck it, the day's ruined. Yeah, you know. But on this particular day, um we had gotten ourselves organized, we'd left our rooms, we'd come down the elevator, we're heading to the lobby, through the we're walking through the lobby, and we're just about to go out and get into the van when we heard this little voice, this kid, that goes, Tommy. And it was like, I think this kid was like 14 or you know, it must have been something like that. He was there by himself and he was sitting there with his guitar, and he'd been waiting to see if he could try and meet his absolute hero of all time. And Tommy stopped and talked to him, and he said, I've been working really hard on one of your pieces. And Tommy's like, Great, show me. And I'm like, Oh no! Every time Tommy gets talking, you know. So this kid starts playing this piece, he's really good. It's like wow, okay. And then Tommy's like, fantastic, and gives him all this encouragement, and then Tommy sits down on the floor and starts giving him a guitar lesson. Now move your finger there and just pick your thing up a little bit there, and just don't rush that bit and whatever whatever. And and and I'm like standing behind the kid, so the kid can't see me, gesturing at Tommy, like, Tommy, come on, we gotta go. And keep pointing at my watch, like, come on. And I'm I'm getting to the point where I am actually getting angry. Um, I've I've forgotten momentarily that you know I'm a pleb on tour with this amazing person. Yeah. And I'm like, for God's sake, would you get in the van? And I'm I'm worried his manager's gonna be so mad with me and whatever, right? So eventually, after some what felt like such a long time, he he says his goodbyes to the kid and he gets up and I'm I'm now steaming. And I'm thinking as soon as I get out of airshot, I'm gonna tell him what I think. But as soon as we get out of airshot, before I get to say anything, Tommy goes, That's what it's all about. And I said, What? And he goes, That's what it's all about. It's about connections with people, it's about inspiring people. You know, we we can be late to soundcheck. Who cares? But we just changed that kid's life.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

And I just was totally disarmed. I felt stupid for having that, you know, I was so worried about doing my job properly.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Put everything in perspective, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

And uh yeah, so that I th I've always thought that was a great example of his personality.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Well, I mean, we we even kind of experienced that a little bit. So um after we, you know, had our first introduction, we kind of hung out and chatted for maybe 10 minutes or so, and they they were gonna start their sound check. So Danny and I went and just sat in like the the front couple rows and um just the sounds that uh Tommy and Mike Dawes. So um the the the show Um Mike Dawes was opening. You I don't know if you kind of felt this, but it almost felt like he was picking up a whole bunch of stuff on sort of the entertainment side um from Tommy, so that was really cool to see.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

But yeah, because Tommy's a true entertainer.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Oh, unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, consummate entertainment for sure. Um and that was one of the things that I thought was so cool when they were doing the sound check was just the vibe in the room. Like they were so playful, um, so free with their time. Um was it was that Tommy's daughter that was there?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, stealing his capos. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

So she kept stealing the capos off the back of the thing, and he was getting like frustrated, little rascal running around, and just a really, uh really wholesome vibe. Everyone was just having fun, you know, really um free with their time and their advice. And when he was doing the sound check, you know, he'd play something, and Danny would I would kind of you know, kind of be leaning in and be like, oh, how did he do that? And then he'd come to the front of the stage and say, Well, I do this and this and this, you know, all of a sudden I'm sitting there, I'm like, But do you remember what caused that?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

No. Yeah, or maybe you didn't actually know about it, but but they'd started sound check and something was wrong on a technical level, and the engineer was like, Okay, we need to hold, I need to solve something, I don't know what was going on. And we were asking Tommy about something, and so he brought a chair over and just sat at the front of the stage and giving us an impromptu guitar lesson. Sits down and starts showing us stuff, and we're mentioning songs, he starts playing them, and yeah, and uh completely surreal for me. Yeah, I I was uh I was kind of experiencing it through your eyes in a way, you know. And we're like, what about this song? It's like bum straight into it.

unknown 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

So you got a private guitar performance. Yeah, the greatest guitarist in history.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah, that absolutely a moment I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

And I said to you that yeah, seeing him on YouTube is amazing, and everybody, you know, listening who hasn't seen him live and hasn't experienced anything to do with him, go and check him out. It's amazing. But in the room, the weight of the sound, the power of it, the way it hits you when you're sitting in the seat is something else, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, that's easily the best acoustic sound I think I've ever heard live. Yeah. Um but yeah, once like, you know, obviously they weren't happy at the start of soundcheck with whatever they were getting. But from the first couple notes, I was like, well, it sounds amazing to me, you know, like sold.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Remember, of course, that what we're hearing are the front uh front of house. What they're doing is they're also checking their monitors. Getting on the levels, right? Yeah. Um I don't know if many audience members always know that. That there's usually at least effectively two completely different systems happening. I don't think they do. And isn't that something I was very aware of? And I pointed out to you on this one that there was actually a third one, which is more like old school, and that's called side fill. Right. So what we're talking about is that the system that comes out the front, uh we call front of house, that is entirely for the audience, and that is totally different from what anyone's hearing on stage. On stage you've got monitors, and those monitors are uh often floor monitors these days, they're often um in-air monitors uh or a combination, um, but they're totally different mixes. So sometimes the band can have a terrible gig and they can't hear anything, and it's a total nightmare, and they're literally in pure hell as they're performing. And um, guessing, it's a horrible feeling. Um and yet the audience is like, this was awesome, sounded amazing, you know, uh because they're totally different systems. And then side fill is when you have a third system set up on the side of the stage pointing across the stage, and that recreates all the ambience, it gives you like the the weight of the whole thing. Um one of the challenges these days, uh when you're especially when you're a guitar player, is having one little monitor in front of you, having your amp somewhere way over the back of the stage, and you play a note and it's so thin and so quiet that the sound kind of immediately drops away. And then your your reflex is to play more notes to try and fill the sound. When you when you have a big system, like lots of monitors or a big stack of amps or like side fill or the sort of stuff that they used to have back in the old days in the 70s and 80s, you play a note and it's so big and it's so rewarding. Yeah, and you just you start to play more with more space and more melody. It's just a totally different feeling, and it's that's just one little example about how the the age we're in now where things are more digital and the budgets are tighter, it makes it harder to play. It's literally harder to play. And in all the tours I did with Tommy, he never had side fill. And a number of times he struggled big time on shows we were on, as did I. Um so as soon as I got there and I saw the side fill, I'm like, I bet he's added that to his writer, and I bet you that's changed everything for him.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah, I was kind of surprised. Um I just assumed if he did something like that with acoustics on the stage with how much volume they were actually producing, I just assumed it'd be a feedback nightmare, but they didn't have anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

No, well he usually uses a feedback cluster.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Using the little baffle there.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

The little rubber plug in his in his acoustic, which is I mean, I use that too to stop that problem. And that is where technology is pretty sophisticated now. They can especially I mean he had a great engineer. His engineer would would have been able to solve that pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Oh I mean, yeah, great job, whoever it is, because the sound was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Even that was a it was a difference. I mean, when we were touring back in the day, he didn't have his own dedicated engineer with him. Which is surprising now that I think about it. But now he's got his guy, which is cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah. Yeah, so I thought it was cool. He opened up the show with his first three songs from the new album. Which I feel like that's pretty rare too for people just to go, hey, here's the new album, here's the start, and we're gonna play all three. Um and as soon as he started with soundcheck too, I was pretty excited because those are three great songs. So this is from the new album, right? This is the opening track on the Oh crap, I can't remember what the new album's called now. Lost in the Light, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Sorry, Living in the Light. I feel like this was a great opening set song too. Um really nice melody, but lots of energy, you know?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Absolutely. It's very indicative of a sound, too.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, yeah. I think this whole album was recorded in like three or four days or something. You know, he's he's one of those guys that just walks in a booth, plays it live, and then goes on to the next one, which is so cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Well, they do an old school approach where they do multiple tanks until they get the magic one. But by your and I standards, all of them would have been magic.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, they every single one would have been good.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Tommy is very, very picky. Yeah. He is very, very fussy. As he should be.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

I kinda got that. I mean, you'd you'd sort of have to be. When you're playing with this level of dynamics, you know, you sort of need to be. You need to be on point with everything it needs to sound exactly how you want it to sound.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

We're just gonna play samples of some of the standout moments, and and like Mike was saying, this is the what the second song on the same album.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

A Drowning Heart, this song's call.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

One of the things I've always enjoyed, this will sound a little bit sadistic, but I don't mean it that way. Um I find it more inspiring, as I enjoy seeing him make mistakes. And yeah, well exactly. Um because I got so familiar with his playing, I think I can usually tell when he I don't think he meant to do that, you know. And yeah, I do find it inspiring on a number of levels. I he is human. I I think it's a bit boring when people try to apply sort of some sort of supernatural, magical thing to really what you're talking listening to here as someone who's worked extraordinarily hard.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

And um, but yeah, hearing him make mistakes, it it reminds me that oh yeah, we're all human, we can make mistakes. What I also like about it is watching how as an absolute pro he's not phased by mistakes. Yeah. Um and also how he recovers from them. Yep. Is amazing to me.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, because there was definitely, I mean, even in this show, like there was a a couple points I think we both noticed where, oh, I don't know if that was supposed to happen, um, but didn't miss a beat, you know. No. Just immediately um kind of smiles it off, laughs it off, and keeps going. Like when he knocked his chair over, that was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Or when he was using the brushes on his guitar and then he dropped it. Dropped the brush. But he immediately went to this because of thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

This one's Scarlet Squirrel. This is the third track, so. I don't know if I've ever heard anybody just like open up like, here's the new album.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I feel like there's a different relationship there with his fans. I don't know if his fans I can't say this with any authority. I mean, we'd really need to ask him this, but um I don't know if his fans go to his gigs, like, expecting to hear the hits or anything like that. It maybe there's a few songs I'd be surprised if he didn't play. But I like I asked him at sound check um if he still plays the Beatles medley. And I think his answer was yeah, sometimes. Yeah, like and then he didn't do it.

unknown 19:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

It seemed like um I feel like he he probably has his set songs that he wanted to hit, and then it seemed pretty free-flowing uh with some of the other stuff. What was the one line he said the his banter between the songs was so good too? Um I think there was one part where he said, you know, I only do request uh when people ask. Just get so many good little lines like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

I thought I just cut too bit of the Beatles midly.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

This is uh Where did you get this from? This is from the live at the Sydney Opera House.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I am So people who don't know his playing, or you know, don't know anything about him, what he's famous for, amongst other things, is playing multiple parts at the same time. When you hear him play, you know you're hearing what kind of sounds like three or four guitars.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

At least two. Like he's always got that really, really strong rhythmic foundation. Yeah. And, you know, then he's playing all sorts of melody on top.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

So good. He taught me some of this medley. And he showed me the mechanics of it, how you how you because I asked him, like, how on earth do you coordinate this? And he he went short, I'll spare you the whole explanation now, but yeah, it's a very, very technical process. Again, I love this stuff. I love the fact that behind the magic of the live show is a is a technical job. You know, there's a there's a craft to it, but it's nothing to do with this myth we call talent. It's so difficult to do and hard work. I've never seen anyone work harder than than how much this guy practices.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I mean, you get I definitely got that impression because how old is he now? He's 70. 72 or 73, I'll talk about it. Um the dexterity that he had in his hand, you know, watch like sitting up close and watching his left hand and right hand pick out all this melody in a monster stuff, when he's playing at such a fast pace too, um, and it's all really, really small nuance, you know, it's it's a quick bar on three strings and then lifting and just getting the two strings and having the open string underneath or something, right? Which I can't move my finger like that. Like I didn't even understand how fingers bend like that. And he's sitting there in front of you making it look so easy.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

One thing I l I love to point out to students is that one thing I learned from him was to take the emotion out of the practice. Right? So, like most people in the past, I would be practicing, I'd make a mistake, I'd be struggling to get something, and I'd want to throw the guitar across the room. Oh my god, you know, and Good for nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get really cruel to yourself and all of that. Yeah. And I noticed he'd be sitting there practicing and he'd make a mistake, and his the biggest reaction he'd give would be, hmm hmm it just sort of noticed it, and you go back and do it again. And he had just somehow removed the emotion. Because if you think about it, how does the emotion help? How do you get better by going, I'm such a piece of shit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

I mean, part I feel like part of it does help because it does keep you motivated to get back if you can as long as you're not too negative.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

If you're it'd be pretty soul-destroying, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. See, I just like the fact that just do it again, go through the process. You know, it's just a mechanical thing. I'll get there in the end.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And that was one of the things I think he said in your interview in 2017, you know, when he saw somebody who was so much better than him at the time, that was his mindset was, wow, if he can do that, you know, I better get back to the drawing board and learn how to do that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

So I I pulled out this um live clip of the song called Finger Lakes, which uh I remember he showed me how to do this trick as well. He does this particular harmonic trick here, which I when I first saw it I didn't know what he was doing. Oh yeah. He's like, what is going on? And then after the show I was like, what was that? And he showed me how to do it. I'm like, oh my god, that's cool. I don't know who made this trick up.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I don't know if it's his idea, but I'm definitely- is that where you hit it with the finger below and then you're yeah, and so it's like one-handed harmonic essentially. Yeah, yeah. And you can do like that sort of cascading run.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah, I can I can do it, but not this speed. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

That speed and that precision and that clarity. That's right. And I think that's one of the things that's so impressive. Like a lot of this stuff. You could do it if you slow it right down and you play it on an electric guitar or something where it's nice and easy, but he's playing at full speed, live in front of people, um, with an acoustic guitar and nothing else. That's right, you know. A tuner pedal and well, actually no, he had it he had a delay pedal too. Yeah, because he uses it for that uh original. Yeah, that initiation.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Yeah, initiation, that's right. So here's an example of some of those crazier stuff.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

You know, one of the other things I thought was so cool is I've found some of the crowds here tend to be quite loud. People are chatty, you know, catching up about their weekend or something when people are playing something quiet and dynamic, and I'm always like, shut up. Like that Buffy um Yep. Buffy Syro. Buffy Clyro. We had the exact same thing at a show last night, um, where I had to say, Hey, do you guys want to catch up after the show? Because you know, Matt Corby was playing something really soft and dynamic and stuff, and all I can hear is these people complaining about their friend of a friend.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

It's like, shut up. It's such a Canadian way of saying it. Hey, do you guys want to catch up after the show? So it's more polite than saying shut the fuck up. But in that moment, why is the objective to be polite?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

I just try and keep people from getting too bristly because you know you can always go the other way where they say, Oh, well fuck you, I'm gonna be louder now. Yeah, yeah. Um, whereas if you're a bit polite about it, it might actually make them think, oh, you know what, I am being kind of a dick.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

What what uh was their uh response?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Oh, they they it was not great. I didn't see it, but uh Taylor told me they were like miming and pretended to punch me in the back of the head after whatever. Oh, it's behind you, right, right. But people know the reason I brought that up though, I didn't hear a peep at Tommy's show. Right. When he was doing all this this stuff where he was playing really quiet and then building up and stuff, everybody was locked in. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah. I do notice that actually, that different types of shows have different types of audiences. Definitely. And I find that really interesting. I find that online as well. Like, you know how you look at some of the comment threads on various things and it's all pretty toxic. Yep. And then with some artists, it's like really nice. And you're like, they attract good people.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Or they only attract weird music nerds who understand and appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Could be a bit of a very, very percussive. This has been one of his staples for years, so this takes me back, this one. For sure. Let me play you a little bit of a song that I adore, which for me is one of my favourite Tommy songs. I still remember when he first wrote this. And man, it hit me. There's a song called Questions. We just have to listen up to at least the chorus. And this is kind of an example of what I mean. Like he can. It's not all bells and whistles, he can go deep. You know, he can he can go quiet. He can reach right into you. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Beautiful harmonics. Such great dynamics in his playing too.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

And this is a very good example of how a melodic he is. And and the first one you played us was like that too. Straight into melody.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

You know, he he always claimed he was more of a songwriter than a guitar player. That's it. That's the hockey. That's the chorus.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Oh, that's a nice little rhyme. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

When I first heard that, he actually sang it to me. Someone had written in with lyrics. Someone had written in lyrics and he had loved them, and so he learned them. And he sang me a version of this song after so many questions and so and I was like, oh my god, I feel so privileged to hear this version of it, you know, because it's an instrumental as far as the world knows. And then sometime later when I saw him, I mentioned that he's like, Yeah, people always send me lyrics. I think I got like 10, you know, 12 versions of that song. And I was like, oh well, I thought it was cool.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

One of the other things that really struck me, you know, we've kind of mentioned this already about how he was such an entertainer, but probably some of the best crowd work I think I've ever seen. Yeah. Um, just lots of really funny stories, just people were just engaged the whole time. And when you're playing solo acoustic guitar stuff like that, it is very easy to lose people.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Absolutely. I mean, that's a lifetime of playing. Yeah. That's a that's a I remember on the episode he became a professional musician at what, five or six? Yeah. So that's a lifetime of being up against really responsive audiences and also really good flat audiences and good sounding rooms, bad sounding rooms, you know, empty rooms, informing rooms. He's done it all and he's learned to survive. Um that's a lot of what's informed as playing. That that's that's another difference. It's not a case of this is gonna get me more clicks. It's a case of long before that, how do I go out there and not totally eat shit? Yeah, you know, how do I survive? Like when on on the interview we did with him, and he was talking about touring in Australia and you know, the tour circuit in Australia is pretty tough. Um, and he said something like, and you maybe you can remind me because your memory's better than mine, but he said I had to play hard to kind of win over these tough rooms. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

I can't remember exactly what he said, but yeah, it was along those lines.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yeah, and that's what I hear when I when I hear him play, is I hear this sort of long life of surviving in the position.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Well he he said a story to um I think it was uh someone had come up and it's like, oh, you know, my my son does what you do, he plays finger style acoustic guitar and he wants to become a solo artist and blah blah blah. And Tommy's response was, Well, um, he better get comfortable being naked on stage.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Because when you're up there with just an acoustic guitar and a microphone and that's it, um, that's about as naked as you can get in terms of a musician up on stage in in a situation like that, right? Every little mistake he makes is gonna stand out tenfold compared to if you've got a a a big complex rhythm section behind you or something, if you flub something, well, you're not gonna really hear it that much in the music.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Well, I don't I don't want to in any way be accused of comparing myself to him, but I mean all those shows I did with him, I was also up there with just one acoustic guitar in the same theatre, and it is extremely exposing. Absolutely. Every little note that you don't quite deliver, um every little pot and squeak and whatever, it's loud.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And it's amplified and there's nowhere to hide.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And there's yeah, and you have to lean in and you have to learn to use the room itself as an instrument. It's a really interesting I I actually learned to write my shows to work in that environment where that the same show probably wouldn't have worked in a different venue. But you kind of you're you're right for the theater, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

That was actually one of the other cool things was that it's such a good theater for a show like that. Town hall. Yeah, because we had just seen Biffy Claro there a couple weeks before, and we both thought it was a bit muddy. It was it was it was it's like the the I guess the wood of the theater was probably a bit too reflective, and so that whole base end just got super muddy. But then flip side, you know, a couple weeks later, same venue, and it sounded immaculate. Absolutely. And I think that's because that really works with that style of music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, I don't think it was the right venue really for Buffy Cornro. Yeah. Yeah. I'm determined to not get it right. I know, I've noticed that. Maybe we've got time for one more. Which one would you like to to select? Black and white into color. Okay. It's a good feel good one to finish off.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah, this was he had the whole room rocking on this one. And I think he had just played a really sincere, really quiet song right before this one. And then he kicks his chair back and he stands up and he starts rocking out with this one. It was such a cool experience.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

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SPEAKER_01 33:10

I'm feeling very attacked right now. I feel like you just called out my entire guitar journey. Good and what you better sign up then.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

We plan to do more kind of album reviews and gig reviews as we go forward when they feel appropriate. And we also like to finish our episodes with uh our conclusional verdict. We always invite people to to leave comments on our various platforms: Spotify, Instagram, Facebook, all of those places. We have our buy me a coffee thing as well. What do you what do we know show. But yeah, our conclusional verdict, this is probably, I think, more on you. Um I told you, I warned you that you were gonna have a life-changing experience. So what did you learn?

SPEAKER_01 34:00

I I I'd agree with you. Um I think the my biggest takeaway was I just left that show and the whole experience of meeting him beforehand, just incredibly inspired. Yeah. You know, that was okay, I'm gonna go home and start, you know, brush off the old acoustic and start learning some finger style stuff. So Yeah, just um very inspiring all around. Um seeing the way that he, you know, works with the crowd, seeing the way that he works with people that aren't, you know, when he when he wasn't on stage, when he wasn't um in front of a screen or in front of an audience, seeing that he was the exact same person um in both situations. That was so cool for me. So yeah, just um incredibly grateful and inspired.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

And what's the name of his new album for people to check out?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Uh Living in the Light. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

And this is a piece. Is there a name for it? Nope. I'm gonna call it Mike on a Hill.co.nz or email info at Aucklandguitarlessons.co.nz to find out more. Or don't and continue to suck. You're called fucking itself.