Hi and welcome to Make Space for Nature from NatureScot, the podcast that celebrates Scotland's nature, landscapes and species. I'm Kirsten Guthrie and in each episode we'll be joined by inspiring guests who share their expertise and passion for the natural world. In this episode, Tim Hancocks and I chat to Claudia Rouse, NatureScot's Deputy Director of Green Economy, about peatland restoration and the many benefits it brings for both people and nature. So hi, Claudia, welcome to the Make Space for Nature podcast. Thanks for joining us today. So, first off, I think it's really important to start by explaining what we mean by peatland. I mean it's a term that we use a lot within NatureScot and other organisations. By peatland, I mean it's a term that we use a lot within NatureScot and other organisations, but can you explain to our listeners?

what peatland actually is and where it's found. In Scotland Morning, kirsten, thanks for asking me to be on the podcast. I'm absolutely delighted to join you. Yeah, it's incredible. Peatlands are incredibly special habitats. They are very rare globally. They make up 3% of the world's surface but they store twice of all the world's forests, twice the carbon of all the world's forests, so they are very special places made up of highly adapted plant species that are home to a range of rare and important wildlife. Peatlands form. They take over a thousand years to form and one meter of peat yeah, it takes a thousand years and some of our peat bogs are over 10 meters deep. So they've absolutely hugely important.

Scotland is incredibly important internationally for its peatlands. We hold 13% of the world's blanket bog and peatland covers 20% of Scotland's surface. So you see, compared to the world percentage, how important they are. In Scotland they're found across the country, from Shetland to the Western Isles, really extensive peatlands in the flow country, obviously, which I will want to come and mention, and across the North Islands and, really importantly, and maybe a little bit surprisingly, also really important in the south of the country, in the southern uplands. But if I can just come back to mentioning the flow country because it's Europe's largest expanse of blanket bog, found in Sutherlands, in the very north of the country, obviously. And the Flow Country alone stores 400 million tonnes of carbon, more than double all of Britain's woodlands. And it is so exciting that last year the Flow Country became the very first UNESCO World Heritage Site for peatlands, the very first in the whole world, similar status to the Serengeti, the Galapagos Islands and the Great Barrier Reef. So that's how important Scotland's peatlands are recognised as incredible ecosystems.

Oh, wow, when you put it like that, the importance is amazing and you know such fascinating facts there you've revealed there. So you know the restoration of this habitat is so important for many reasons you know, as you highlight, and we'll kind of cover more of these later. But can you tell us more about the Peatland Action Partnership that NatureScot leads on and your involvement in this as well, please?

Thanks, kirsten. Yeah, as I've said, you know, scotland is so important for its peatlands and we actually have a world leading approach about the partnership we have with politicians, with ministers, with scientists, with practitioners and with landowners. And it's absolutely unique as we look at countries around the world who are so jealous of what we're really doing in Scotland. And one of the things that is at the back of that is that Scottish government have pledged £250 million to support 250,000 hectares of peatland restoration by 2030. It is at the heart of Scotland's plans to be net zero by 2045. There is no way we can reach that target without restoring peatlands.

So, as part of that commitment, what Scottish government has set up and funded is a multi-partner partnership called Peatland Action, which we are the leading partner and it is funded by Scottish government and it works with five delivery partners the two national parks, loch Lomond and Trossachs, and Cairngorms, along with Forestry and Land Scotland and Scottish Water, and we work on science, evidence policy and delivery, so a really broad remit across all the partners.

In terms of NatureScot's role, as I said, we're the leading partner. We've been driving forward peatland restoration and delivery on the ground and we deliver about 65% of the annual targets each year We've got 20 peatland project officers who are supporting landowners and land managers to develop restoration projects and really importantly and I love this we actually fund peatland officers in third-party organisations and charitable groups from Shetland to the Tweed, to the Clyde, to the Western Isles so that people can work embedded in their communities to progress peatland in the right way for local and regional approaches. So in addition to our delivery role, we also coordinate all the science and monitoring and communications across the whole peatland action partnership.

Well, hi, claudia, it's clear from what you said there's an enormous amount of work going on and the importance of peatlands is key. It sounds like a lot of partners involved and some substantial funding to restore peatlands and the huge and important role that they play in storing carbon and addressing climate change. Could you let us know a bit more about that role and how peatlands are key in our efforts to assist with the fight against climate change?

Thank you, tim. Yeah, it is hard to believe, even though I've been working on it for quite a few years, that peatlands contribute 15% of Scotland's total carbon emissions, second only to transport more than emissions from sectors such as energy or buildings. So, as I said, they're absolutely at the heart of Scotland's net zero plans. But one of the problems with peatlands is that they're a very sensitive habitat and if they're disturbed or damaged, instead of being a carbon sink, they actually end up releasing the stores of carbon. And currently about 75% of our peatlands are damaged from past practice and when I say damaged I hate using that word. In a way they're sort of degraded. It's hard to think of the right word because it's quite emotive and people didn't purposefully mean to damage them. They were just trying to make a living based on the understanding and science of their time. And one of the video clips about peatland restoration that we've produced which I really like is from Joyce Campbell, a farmer and crofter up on the north coast of Sutherland at Armadale Farm, and she talks how farmers and crofters just want to do the right thing. And she also talks about we're all just playing the cards we are dealt. And when I come back to the damage that happened in the past. People were just doing the right thing and playing the cards. They were dealt, and most of the previous actions were all supported and encouraged through government subsidies. But the impact of what happened about draining our peatlands to try and make them more economically active so that people could potentially graze more sheep or get better forestry planting, as well as extraction for horticulture have resulted in this 75% of peatlands being damaged and now emitting carbon. So that's, in a way, the bad news.

But what I do want to flag up is the good news. It is relatively easy to restore peatlands. We've been doing it for quite a few years now and we've got an understanding of what techniques work. And we're not waiting on new technology, like some of the other challenges for society, to reduce our carbon emissions. We know how to do it and we just need to scale up the activity, which is not a small task, but it's relatively easy. And the fantastic thing is it's one of the most cost-effective ways of removing a ton of carbon. So, relatively speaking, compared to decarbonizing our whole society, it costs about 20 pounds to remove a ton of carbon by using peatland restoration techniques, compared to 100 pounds a ton to remove it from our heating of our domestic buildings, which we all must do, obviously, and £200 a tonne to remove it from our transport sector. So relatively, peatland's a really good solution, cost effective to the sort of climate emissions.

That's a really good way to understand the cost comparison there and, as you explained before, good way to understand the cost comparison there and, as you explained before, explaining the way that the land was used in the past and speaking to the people who use the land and how they manage the land now, that gives an insight into the land itself and the stories that the kind of uses in the past. But you've mentioned that peatland restoration has got many other benefits. Can you tell us a bit more about these as well, please?

Thank you. I'm really keen on this part of the story because, you know, sometimes peatlands, we talk about the evidence, we talk about the emissions, we talk about hectares and it's all numbers and numbers can numb us and actually at the heart of Peatlands is a story about people and the other benefits it brings for the people of Scotland, for our communities and businesses, and I really want us to talk more about these multiple benefits. Firstly and like can you, we cannot imagine living without drinking water. It is our most essential basic human need and peatlands are the source of 70% of all Scotland's drinking water comes through peatland catchments peatland catchments. If our peatlands are restored, it will have fewer pollutants and will require less treatment at the water treatment plants when it comes through. So it's a really essential part of the quality of our life, I think. Secondly, I'd flag up, it plays a critical role in reducing flood risk because it naturally stores water like a sponge. And just to maybe give you a little bit of a story that I like using is about why it doesn't make sense just to talk about the numbers and the carbon. We're doing some brilliant peatland restoration at one of our national nature reserves, at Ben Wyvis, about 20 miles northwest of Inverness and I went up to see the restoration that's happening there and we fill in the box that says we did 250 hectares of peatland restoration and you go. Well, that's great, wonderful, but actually looking around, what we're really doing when we're there, that peatland restoration has helped two and a half thousand hectares of the whole nature reserve improve and restore the functioning and health of its wider ecosystems and you know that's brilliant, good for nature, good for climate, as I've said. But actually the real story is, by doing that, by improving the hydrology in the catchment, along with other interventions we're taking in the catchment to remeander some rivers which will slow the flow of water, flow of water, what we're actually doing is benefiting the people of Dingwall, 10,000 people who have a high risk of flooding, and the hope is that this work will be the start of helping to reduce the flood risk to people, to communities, to businesses, so that really direct benefit for communities and the economy. I think you know the other direct benefit which, again, is just so important to all of us peatland restoration is a new industry and it is supporting jobs and creating employment, often in remote rural communities, and it's absolutely fantastic to see and many contractors are taking on young apprentices. I met a young crofter the other day who had moved from working on the roads in civil engineering to staying home in his community and being able to work out on a highly skilled operational work restoring people at the coalface, so to speak, and creating training opportunities for young people is really exciting. And a recent report from Highlands and Islands Enterprise said that the flow country just the flow country in Sutherland could create over 200 jobs and 400 million pounds for the local economy. To give you a sense of the scale of the opportunities.

There are so many other benefits. I'll maybe touch on a couple of others. We talked about how peatlands are really important for grazing and one of the benefits is actually for agriculture. And again, one of our video clips I absolutely love it. It's from Tardo's farm, where the Coopers farm, and they talk about in that video clip that categorically peatland restoration is the best thing they've done for their farming system and they say that it has helped their business financially and ecologically.

And I just go how fantastic. And basically the reason that is is because there's less dry bear peat. It means there's better grazing for the stock. It means we filled in the drains and the gullies, and so wildlife and stock are less likely to get stuck or drowned in it. And I mean I haven't even mentioned the benefits for biodiversity brilliant habitats for rare species, plants, invertebrates and what others might know maybe first and foremost really important for Scotland's internationally important whiskey industry, obviously, and increasingly for tourism. So people come from around the world to to visit our peatlands. So hopefully that gives you a range of all the benefits that uh provided by peatlands I suppose you know.

Lastly, like all of nature, getting out in nature is really essential for human well-being and health and there are a number of great peatland sites available that you can visit at our National Nature Reserves and other areas to enjoy the outdoors and feel connected with nature. Can I give you one last quote which I really liked, actually, last week I heard the acting cabinet secretary for Net Zero, gillian Martin. She summarized it for me. She said there's no human health and there's no human prosperity without a healthy natural environment and I'm like, wow, I couldn't have said it better. Thank you, ms Martin.

Well, that's fantastic, and it's clear that the benefits are wide ranging, and the list goes on and on and on. I'm sure you could keep going on for some time. That sounds more and more like it's a no-brainer that we're putting a lot of time and effort into working on peatlands and trying to restore them. Could you tell us a bit more about how the restoration actually works and what techniques are involved and, of course, how our very own peatland action can help?

Yeah, I'm not very knowledgeable on the extent of the technical details, but I can touch on it, but certainly the range of support that our peatland action team are doing.

There are sort of five main areas that we work in.

We give advice, support and funding to landowners and land managers to restore their peatlands.

So that is the first service we offer.

Secondly, we provide technical advice to help contractors understand the best practice techniques for restoring the peatlands on the ground, because it's a very sensitive habitat and it needs to be done with great care and we've been learning as we go along over the last decade about the best way of doing that and the sort of specialist contractors that are operating in this field are absolutely fantastic.

Thirdly, we run a program of training to support peatland contractors to bring in new designers who will design peatland schemes for us with complex ecology and hydrology. And we're working to bring new entrants into the industry by working with young people and training them from colleges, providing them with training and skills who can come and work in the future in peatland restoration and we've trained more than 500 people this year, which has been fantastic Working with colleges and universities, promoting it with schools and career events and I think. Lastly, I'd just say about the science and evidence we play an absolute critical role in monitoring peatlands to ensure that the work that we're doing and the techniques are actually working, because the science is quite new and is being updated as people's understanding of the complexity of how peatlands function is changing, so we're developing new methods and supporting peatland research.

Great and if anybody's interested in finding out more obviously, we will put the link to Peatland Action and the many services that we offer in our show notes. But we're you know we're always trying to encourage our listeners to take action for nature through our Make Space for Nature campaign, and one of the kind of top tips that we advise is when people are gardening, to avoid, you know, products with peat in them and you know what other ways can our listeners help with peatland?

I mean, I guess, as a land manager, the call to action is to get in touch with us and do the right thing and come forward and restore your peatlands. I think many people haven't understood how important they are for carbon and for these other benefits and, as I say, at the moment Scottish government, through ourselves and through the other partners, provides 100% funding to restore them. So come forward, get in touch with our team and they can help advise you on the issues that need to be addressed in order to restore it successfully. I think for other people and for all of us, go and visit some peatlands. They are some of the most magical and strange places in the world. Really.

If you've been lucky enough to go up to the Flow Country, there's a brilliant viewing tower. There's a brilliant viewing tower at Flanders Moss near Stirling a national nature reserve there where you get a great sense of these fantastic open habitats. And we've got other national nature reserves Bluehorn moss I love as well in the central belt, really close to people and communities, easy to access. Go out and go and have a look at these magical places For people who can't get out or want to enjoy it in other ways. I've mentioned a couple of our videos. We have got a fantastic suite of case study videos on Peatland Action YouTube channel. Go and have a look at them. They're like three minutes long and some of them are really funny about the difficulties of filming in remote, difficult locations with Scotland's weather. And of course as well, we promote Peatland Action on social media in all the usual places.

Thanks, claudia. Can I put you on the spot and ask you what we ask all the people who come on the podcast about what you do in your own life to make space for nature, what things you enjoy or little things that you would give as sort of top tips to people, about small things we can all do in our everyday life to to help with climate change well, that's interesting.

I mean personally every day. I'm really lucky to live in the highlands so I have got a really rich wildlife on my doorstep and I do like to go out personally every day and try and make contact with nature. It really helps my well-being and it helps me restore my energies and my inspiration for working on a mission to protect and save nature, which I'm passionate about. So I think that's really the main thing I would say about what I'm doing to making space for nature.

Brilliant. Thank you so much, and thank you so much for coming on today. That's been fantastic to hear all about the importance of peatland and I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't realize what a big role they play in the fight against the climate change crisis and how important they are and how Scotland plays such a central role because of the amount of peatland we have and the wide-ranging benefits, both ecologically and economically, that they bring as well. That's been really brilliant having you on. Thank you so much, thank you.

Thanks for listening. If you're enjoying Make Space for Nature, please follow us on your podcast app and leave a review or rating. We'd also love you to tell more people about the series. For more ways to connect with and help protect Scotland's natural world, go to naturescot.