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Make Space For Nature
Make Space For Nature
Scotland's Sea Eagles: Balancing Conservation and Farming
Fifty years since their reintroduction, Scotland now hosts around 200 breeding pairs of white-tailed eagles (also known as sea eagles), representing both a remarkable conservation success and a challenge for some farmers and crofters. This podcast explores the relationship between these magnificent birds and farming communities through conversations with NatureScot's Andrew Kent and Appin-based sheep farmer David Colthart.
We hear how eagle predation impacts sheep flocks and how the recently expanded Sea Eagle Management Scheme supports farmers with deterrence and adaptation strategies. The discussion reveals emerging collaborative approaches, including enhanced shepherding and research to track predation patterns.
From extinction to reintroduction, conservation success to agricultural concerns - this episode examines the multifaceted story of Scotland's sea eagles and the ongoing efforts to balance wildlife conservation with the needs of rural livelihoods.
Hi and welcome to Next Space for Nature from NatureScot, the podcast that celebrates Scotland's nature, landscapes and species. I'm Kirsten Guthrie and in each episode we'll be joined by inspiring guests who share their expertise and passion for the natural world. In this episode, katrina Webster and I explore the fascinating story of white-tailed eagles, also known as sea eagles, and their reintroduction to Scotland. These magnificent birds made a remarkable comeback after being absent from our skies for much of the 20th century, in what's been both a conservation triumph and a complex challenge for some rural communities. We hear from different voices on this subject.
Speaker 1:Andrew Kent from NatureScot explains the history of these birds, the return to Scotland and the management strategies being developed to address livestock predation concerns. We also hear from David Coulthart, a sheep farmer from Appen with generations of farming heritage, who shares his first-hand experiences of farming alongside these birds of prey and his involvement in collaborative efforts to find workable solutions. From extinction to reintroduction, conservation success to agricultural concerns. This episode explores the multifaceted story of Scotland's sea eagles and the ongoing effort to balance wildlife conservation with the needs of rural livelihoods. So we're up high on a hillside near Appen on the west coast of Scotland, with Nature Scots, andrew Kent. So hi, andrew, welcome to the podcast. Could you start by telling us briefly about the history of sea eagles and why they disappeared from Scotland originally?
Speaker 2:Thanks, Kirsten. Yeah, white-tailed eagles, also known as sea eagles, were persecuted to extinction in Scotland in the early 1900s. So Victorian period seen a lot of species persecuted and the last birds in Scotland were shot in Shetland in the early 1900s. Since then there's been a reintroduction to Scotland, A couple of failed attempts in the 1950s and 1960s in Argyll and Fair Isle. But a successful reintroduction commenced in 1975 in the Island of Rum. That was a collaboration between rspb and the nature conservancy council.
Speaker 1:And yeah, this this year marks 50 years of the the birds return to scotland wow, that's uh, that is a long time and what's the kind of rationale behind bringing them back?
Speaker 2:so at that time, the white-tailed eagle population was suffering across europe, as were other species, due to pesticide use and the impact on, you know, the fledgling success of birds and there was concern over the population. So, yeah, I think, in terms of conservation side of things, but also maybe a moral argument in terms of the birds were persecuted by man and and bringing them back would restore a, you know, a lost species to the ecosystem. So yeah, 50 years since that reintroduction, which has been a conservation success but, as we'll touch on today, has come with its challenges.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know how many sea eagles are estimated to be in Scotland now and where are their main populations, would you say?
Speaker 2:So there's around 200 breeding pairs in Scotland around about that, and they're mostly focused on the west coast and seaboard. So, yeah, the main populations are Gael, lochaber, skye and Lochalsh the Western Isles. But yeah, we're seeing expansion from those core areas into Sutherland and further south into Gael. But also the birds are present in Fife, angus, the Cairngorms and parts of Rosshire as well. So there is a spread across Scotland but mostly focused on the west.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, and you know, they are, as you say, certainly spreading out and a great conservation success, as you say, and so, in conservation terms and also for tourism, the reintroduction has been very successful, would you say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we've got a self-sustaining population now and yeah, you can see that the population is expanding. So as a conservation success story, you can see from some case studies in Mull, you know that the sort of tourism benefit from for sea eagles in terms of, you know, wildlife photographers come to see the birds but also acknowledge that there's other wildlife that people are going to Mull to see. Well, but but yeah, they're the iconic species and you know a species that when you see them that I think everybody can admire. But yeah, they do come with challenges as well for the farming and crofting community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, they are magnificent birds, huge and such an amazing bird to see, but, as you say, there's been issues, particularly for some farmers and crofters. So you know what are the main concerns that have been raised about sea eagles.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the sort of conflict is around a predation of lambs by white-tailed eagles, which Nature Scotland have accepted for a long time now happens and, yeah, in some locations it can have quite a significant impact on farmers' and crofters' livelihoods. So, you know, we fully accept that white-tailed eagles take life-healthy lambs and the impacts are, you know, significant in some areas. So, yeah, it's really that conflict is around, you know, predation, but the conflict has also sort of bubbled away because at the time farmers and crofters, you know, following the initial years following the reintroduction, they felt their views were not listened to and the conservations at the time were sort of ignoring their concerns. But, as I say, we've accepted for a number of years now that this is a challenge and we're working closely with farmers and crofters to try and address those issues and ultimately foster coexistence between the birds and farming and crofting, which are both very important.
Speaker 1:And what specific support does NatureScot offer to farmers and crofters affected by sea eagles?
Speaker 2:So I manage the sea eagle management scheme and that's the principal support mechanism for farmers and crofters affected by white-tailed eagle predation. So the scheme has been running for, you know, a number of years now. Firstly local schemes but a national scheme for sort of more than 11 years now and that's working with farmers and crofters across those areas where there are impacts and trying to find solutions. And it's focused on mitigation and and trying to solve those, those, those complex challenges where they occur.
Speaker 1:And as you say that you know the seagull management scheme, it's you, you manage that and it's recently had a big increase to its funding. Can you explain how the scheme works in practice?
Speaker 2:I mean how, if a farmer or a crofter, for example, comes to you with an issue, you know what happens next so the first sort of step in the process is to register an interest in the scheme and that comes through to myself and then that prompts a visit from one of our call-off contractor team.
Speaker 2:So I've got a team of six call-off contractors working across the core white-tailed eagle range and the guys and girls in that team are, all you know, white-tailed eagle ecologists but have a background in farming and crofting as well. So they act as a sort of first point of contact for farmers or crofters affected by this issue. So everybody will get a site visit that will allow us to get a better understanding of the management system on the individual areas and the and the issues that the farmer or crofter is experiencing, because obviously we're working with over 200 farms and crofters in the scheme. So you know, some people have four sheep, some people have 2,800 sheep. So the scheme's got to be flexible to those those different challenges, different management systems, and it can support a wide range of different options. So once that visit's completed, you know I have quite close contact with farmers and crofters affected by this issue and it's a case of a discussion between ourselves to try and work out how best to try and mitigate this problem going forward.
Speaker 1:So just to be clear, I mean there are various options available under the CE Goal Management Scheme and it's not a compensation scheme, you know. I think that's often a misperception that people may have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a compensation scheme. So the scheme is a mitigation scheme focused on mitigating impacts and ultimately fostering coexistence. It's important to say the scheme is not going to solve everyone's problem and we're very upfront about that. But yeah, the scheme has had a big uplift in support this year from the Scottish Government. Over £500,000 has been put into the scheme alongside NatureScotts funding. So a budget of nearly £1 million, with most of that support going to farmers and crofters affected by this issue.
Speaker 2:And it covers a wide variety of different things.
Speaker 2:So at a very basic level that can be provision of skier and equipment on in-by areas to try and deter whitetailed eagle presence, where there are challenges.
Speaker 2:On the in-byy areas to try and deter white-tailed eagle presence where there are other challenges in the in-buy. We're also supporting enhanced shepherding, with some of the work we're doing in more extensive areas, which is a complex challenge. But the scheme also supports some of the additional costs that farmers and crofters have incurred as a result of adapting their management to live alongside eagles or try and mitigate the impact. So you know for some people that sacrifice and silage fields to retain sheep in by for longer. For others it's a shift to indoor lambing and you know, for others it's a retention of using lambs in the in by for a longer period, so that all has costs and we can we do help to support some of those costs. So yeah, a lot of the stuff we support through the scheme is, you know, ideas that have been developed by farmers and crofters and we work closely to come up with sort of collaborative solutions that's great.
Speaker 1:It's good to hear so many different options, um, and obviously by a case-by-case basis as well. And you know why would a compensation scheme be so difficult with the kind of predation issues that we see?
Speaker 2:so yeah, I mean compensation schemes are used in parts of europe for for wildlife conflicts, but I suppose a lot of these schemes are reliant on the provision of a carcass, you know, to evidence. You know that the predator has caused that damage and in a lot of cases, especially an extensive hill setting, what we're seeing is that, you know, lambs just disappear between the sort of marking and weaning time. Uh, there might not be much left of a carcass and you might just have a ring of plucked wool. So you wouldn't be able to, in a lot of cases, provide a carcass to evidence.
Speaker 2:Compensation that other countries take as an approach to the likes of wolf predation, and also compensation it's a difficult one to work out, especially in the hefted hill situation. So if that's a ewe lamb that's lost, it's not just the value of that ewe lamb in that system, the, the ewe lambs are the effect of the future of the flock, so they're the replacements, so it's the potential breeding value of that that ewe lamb going forward and the knock-on consequences of that loss and also the loss of, you know, subsidy support in those region. Three areas so. So it's very complex. And ultimately compensation I don't think would be the route to go down for this issue.
Speaker 1:There's some quite innovative work that's going on as part of the scheme testing and trialling new methods to deter sea eagles. Can you tell us a bit about the different approaches that are being trialled?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so enhanced shepherding is one of those and I think David will speak about that later today.
Speaker 2:But that was really developed from a crofter and a sheep stock club in sky and it was really his.
Speaker 2:He was taking a diary of what he was seeing in the hill and we we work with him and others to sort of develop that going forward.
Speaker 2:So it's trying to build a picture of what what farmers and crofters are seeing on the ground, um, so recording white-tailed eagle activity, recording lambcasses, recording other predators and prey species on the hill and compiling all that information together and ultimately, in those more extensive areas, seeing whether additional human presence on the ground has an impact. And in some locations we have seen that it's really helped and the farmer and crofter feedback on that has been positive and we rely on that feedback because ultimately it's the farmers and crofters that are delivering this. And this year we're trialling the use of mobile phone application to, you know, streamline that process and I think feedback in that early stage has been very good. So that's one thing we're trialling. There's also some DNA research work we're doing at Two Monitor Farms in Argyll looking at predator DNA retrieval from lamb carcasses and working closely with farmers and crofters there to understand the extent of predation on these two farms by white-tailed eagles.
Speaker 1:That's great. So many different options and innovations as well. And what about? You know you spoke about enhanced shepherding, so how effective has that been? Does it depend on the area you know and other factors on farms and crofts?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it depend on the area and other factors on farms and crops.
Speaker 2:The area is a challenge to the extent of the area. So in some locations it has been a challenge to deliver, just because you might be having a deterrence effect on one part of the hill but you're then shifting that problem onto another part of the hill that isn't covered. That is a challenge when the measure has worked. Initially there have been some challenges. The birds get used to, you know, the extra human presence, that habituation, but, as I say, in some locations it's really worked and you know farmers and crofters have fed that back and what we're seeing in the data actually has increased, you know, or improved, performance levels in the flock since the measure started and a return to where you know the the flock performance might have been before white-tailed eagles arrived. So, yeah, it's uh, it's an interesting measure and uh, yeah, the farmers and crofters we're working with have been sort of key in helping to develop that going forward that's great to hear, and you know what advice um would you give to farmers and crofters that are experiencing issues with seagull predation?
Speaker 2:I think, get in touch with us as early stage as possible with the key advice. We're here to try and help and, you know, the sooner we know about issues, the better place we are to try and address them. So get in touch. You can find the details for the scheme on our website. My mobile number is on there and the scheme mailbox is on there. So get in touch as soon as you can. We're here to to try and help and work through these difficult challenges. We understand it's, you know, a complex and a challenging issue for farmers and crofters and an emotional issue. But we're here to try and work through that. And, yeah, getting in touch early. But also in terms of record keeping, if you know, if you are seeing impacts, record all that information, photographs, all that sort of stuff is really useful for us to to help try and inform the picture and try and find solutions for that individual farmer or crofter well, that's great.
Speaker 1:Thank you, andrew. You know you've provided a really fascinating insight into the reasons, you know, behind the conservation efforts, but also the the range of support available, you know, if required. And, uh, you know, and we definitely encourage people to get in touch if they are experiencing issues, as Andrew says, and so thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Kirsten.
Speaker 1:So I'll now hand over to Katrina, who's with David Coulthart, a well-known sheep farmer here in Appen and a prominent voice for farmers and crofters, particularly on the issue of sea eagles.
Speaker 3:So welcome to the podcast, david. So we're standing in this lovely glen in your Appen and your family has a long history here, and can you tell us a bit about the land and how long you've been farming here?
Speaker 4:Well, the family's been farming here for actually 99 years it'll be 100 years next year since my grandfather took over the tenancy of one side of the glen and he then passed it on to my father, who's then passed it on to my brother to farm it. I help him out as well, and this other side of the glen. I took this over in 2007. So we run this. We help out each time there's a sheep operation, but in essence, we run it as a family since nearly 99 years ago.
Speaker 3:Wow, yes, so a really long history here. So Andrew's been telling us a bit this morning about some of the challenges about livestock predation by seagulls and particularly in hefted hill system, which is what you have here. So it'd be great if you could just tell us a bit more about how that works and why predation is such an issue.
Speaker 4:Well, a hefted flock works well. There's a nage structure that you cast the sheep out at maybe five or six years old and then you bring them in the very best of the ewe lambs in, just they come into the flock at a year old. But where predation has been an issue is that it affects the age structure of that flock in that it can't sustain itself. And if they focus in one particular part of the hill and it's usually at the higher parts where it's a very, very low stocking density, because that's what the hill can carry, then you're not getting the females which the best fuel must we keep to go back to that particular part and sustain the grazing up there? Now some folk might say well, you know what if the sheep aren't there? But some of the biodiversity we've got here, if there isn't the right balance of grazing that, likes the white millennia grass, will smother some of the biodiversity we've got on this farm. So it's just getting that balance right and unfortunately, with predation, when it can be quite bad at times, affects that whole balance. The worst effects are that if you can't keep the very best of females and the strongest females to sustain that hefted flock, what has happened here in the past is that you maybe kept the sheep for longer, so they're maybe six or seven years old or more, before you've cast them out the flock. You keep ewe lambs which are the replacement and that's a lifeblood to keep that flock going. You keep ones that you actually should be selling rather than keeping and then that affects the age structure. If you do have poor weather, then these are the ones that affects the age structure. If you do have poor weather, then these are the ones that affects the most. And if it's a small sheep it's not necessarily going to produce a good lamb to keep the older sheep. If it's a bad winter time, weather can take its toll on them.
Speaker 4:So the flock goes into a decline and you know which to intervene some parts of the highlands, like over on the left hand side, that hill. There's no a boundary there because the flock that's previously there. It was a hefted flock, so both flocks were on one side of the hill and the other and though there's a wee bit mixing at the top, they kept their own own part. If there's not a fence there, any bot sheep coming in would just wander because they've got a homing signal. And one of the most pleasurable things.
Speaker 4:When we've had the sheep in, when we're dozing them or clipping them, when we let them out the hill gate, they all go. It's just like my grating salmon. They'll go back to their own part of the hill where they are reared and they'll stay there. You often wonder, even in, even in the worst of weather, the sheep at the top of the hill, why does it not want to go to the bottom, where it's greener? But that's where it stays and that's where it wants to stay. And that's been the biggest effect of predation here. It's just upset that balance on the flock and it's been very, very hard to come back from that.
Speaker 3:So you have been doing quite a lot of work with ourselves, with NatureScot, to kind of try and understand the effects that you've been describing there more and kind of look at ways that you could try and reduce conflict. Can you tell us a bit more about that sort of work, what you've been trying here?
Speaker 4:Well, for the last several years we've been a monitor farm for NatureScot and we've tried through these various years, you know, all sorts of things to try and prevent the birds to coming into the, especially at the lambing time, into the lambing parks. But also too, there's been a level of monitoring from observers and from the first year, which was really kind of baseline year, to monitor what the birds are doing, and then each year after that was trying to alter activities to see if that would kind of reduce or change the habits of the birds. And where we are at the moment it's not been through the lack of effort from ourselves as farmers and NatureScot. There's a lot of resource being put into trialling various things and one of the main things that's come out of it is that when the observers have been on the hill it has put the birds off and we started trialling out an enhanced shepherding, which we do now, which in essence is that normally speaking, when the sheep are in for lambing, when the sheep go back to the various parts of the hill or hill park, you don't normally have to go round them every day because part of the things where you have to flock they're very, very hardy sheep, they're not park sheep that are maintained every day, have to be checked, going round their survival instinct and the hardiness that's in their genetics. And you know, in an extensive there's 3,000 acres between land that we own and land that we tenant, so it's a huge area to cover. And that has been one of the issues with enhanced shepherding that in the areas that we can take the sheep into which we have, we've changed the whole way we've farmed because of the impacts of the birds and trailing out the various measures is that if we've got one of the shepherds in one part of the hill going round there, if the birds appear they'll just move to another part.
Speaker 4:If the birds are determined to get two lamb, they'll do that. Sometimes they'll fly off, like this morning. Donny, who is one of the young shepherds that we use. He was going through the hill park. The bird lifted up and it flew off and it flew for quite a distance. He followed it with the binotlers. So hopefully that bird won't return today. So you know that's a positive and if there wasn't the help through the scheme you know the farm wouldn't be able to. It wouldn't be financially viable to have that level of labour unless there's assistance from NatureScout.
Speaker 3:So you've also been really involved in sort of representing the interests of farmers and crofters on this issue more widely through various stakeholder groups as. I understand, yeah, so could you explain your role and and kind of how you think that sort of partnership, working and collaboration is helping to tackle the issue?
Speaker 4:and my role as chair. You know we've got both sides farmers and crofters sitting around the table with the conservationists and the interests of the birds, as well as government, naturescot and my role is to try and reduce the conflict between both sides Because if we're still talking and still discussing and still trying to work to find mitigation, that's going to reduce or stop predation on livestock. That's the aim of it. But as long as we're still talking and discussing, rather than two sides just apart, that doesn't do anyone any good and it doesn't help resolve the issue.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. It's just having everyone around that table, isn't it? The Seagull Management Scheme has had a bit of a funding uplift this year as well. Do you think that funding will help with the support that's available?
Speaker 4:Definitely.
Speaker 4:I think that the funding uplift I think it'll really do a good job because the caps that were in place beforehand really goes back nearly a decade and you know that the costs that the farmers and crofters that they experience, you know, have, especially in the last few years, really really jumped.
Speaker 4:So with the extra money that's come into the scheme and the uplift has reflected some of the increase in the costs that we face as farmers. The main thing, the standard measures, which the uplift was very good, the enhanced measures, where it doubles the cap to £10,000. So the folk that are doing enhanced measures, that's a big lift because the bigger places that that do it, like ourselves, the previous cap didn't cover the extra costs as farmers which has cost our business to try and mitigate the impacts of the bird and the majority of the stuff that we do. We wouldn't have to do if the birds weren't here. So that the scheme covers quite a lot of these costs. But still a stepping stone and I'm sure that there's further refinements that we can make and from the union's perspective we'll be pushing to hopefully see that funding at a further uplift because if more folk are affected then there's going to be a bigger demand on these funds folk are affected, then there's going to be a bigger demand on on these, these funds.
Speaker 3:So what would your advice be? David, to farmers and crofters, say, who are having problems with seagulls for the first time. What would you advise them to do?
Speaker 4:I think in the very first instance anyone's experiencing problems for the first time, or indeed anyone who's experienced problems for a few years it's no good not telling anyone about it or even going on social media and say there's a balance there, that you need to contact nature scott in the first instance, because you can't get help unless they know there's a problem and maybe the problem can't be solved. But at least you can start the process of trying to work out. There's maybe mitigations that might work for that particular farm. It might not work other places, but it might work for that particular farm or crofter. It might not work other places, but it might work for you. So I would definitely say please, if you've got an issue, contact NatureScot.
Speaker 3:Great. And just finally, so what sort of lessons do you think could be learned from the Seagull reintroduction project in terms of conservation? Similar conservation projects in future?
Speaker 4:If this was to be redone again and the birds were to be released, they should have a full consultation with the farmers and crofters. You know, it's great in hindsight looking back to what has happened and in my view, the birds have adapted very, very well to the west coast of Scotland and the increase in the population. There's been an exponential rise in the population, but I don't feel there's been enough natural prey to sustain themselves and that's where the conflict is coming in. The birds have adapted to the availability of the food that is there. Now, not every bird's a problem and it's not the bird's fault. You know, if they are nested in a particular area, they just look at the resource that's there and unfortunately unfortunately, if domestic livestock are the food resource and you know I have to call it as it is they are focusing on that because in some of these areas there isn't sufficient natural play available to sustain these, these birds.
Speaker 4:You know that is exactly where we are at the moment. We're trying to work through all the various mitigations. In an ideal world, the stuff that we find is going to help prevent the birds take livestock. But the biggest frustration is that you know the public really need to understand that, yes, there's a benefit for tourism with seeing the birds, and you know they are a sight to see. But the impact is where it's affecting our business different families' businesses, you know that is. I don't think the public realise that it has quite an impact and the places that are hit quite bad. You know it's these businesses that are suffering from it and so far we haven't found anything that's going to resolve the issue.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you very much, david, for sharing your insights and your experiences with us today, and thanks to Andrew as well for his insight. Thanks very much.
Speaker 4:No, thank you.
Speaker 1:It's clear that finding solutions to this complex issue requires ongoing dialogue, practical solutions and a collaborative approach so that we can all work towards a future where both Scotland's iconic sea eagles and its vital agricultural communities can thrive together. For more ways to connect with and help protect Scotland's natural world, go to naturescot.