Welcome And Liam’s Story

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to Make Space for Nature from Nature Scotland, the podcast celebrating Scotland's nature, landscapes, and species. I'm Kirsten Guthrie, and in this episode, Tim Hancock's and I are joined by Liam Robertson, the creature behind Living with Alternative Colitis, an inspiring online social media space where he shares the honest ups and downs of living with a long-term health condition. Alongside is Love of Scotland's Outdoors, we'll be chatting about resilience, mental health, and how connecting with nature can help you find calm even on difficult days. So hi Liam and welcome to the Make Space for Nature podcast. Now you've been creating inspiring content for Nature Scott, focusing on encouraging people, particularly those who might have a long-term health condition like yourself to get outside if they can to help, you know, both their mental and physical health.

Understanding Ulcerative Colitis

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Could you please share a little bit of your journey with ulcerative colitis? You know, what what it is, when you were diagnosed, and how it's shaped your life.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Uh yeah, sure. So also first of all, thanks for having me here. Umstrative colitis is it's a type of uh type of inflammatory bowel disease. So it's basically where your immune system attacks your colon, uh your large intestine. Um it causes inflammation and ulcers and a whole host of other symptoms, uh, a lot of which people never really see. Um I was diagnosed in my early 20s, kind of after years of not personally me ignoring signs, but going back and forth to the GP and the hospital and getting kind of popped off. And that went on for years, to be honest. I think it was three years from the first time I got ill until I was finally diagnosed. Um I got a lot of you know, there's nothing wrong with you, just go on with it, kind of thing. Um, which in hindsight is a bit crazy because you know, I think if I was a GP and somebody was coming to tell me they were bleeding from their backside 20 times a day, I'd my you know, it's pretty obvious there's something wrong. Uh, but unfortunately back back then, if this was talking about, you know, maybe 15 years ago or something, um the kind of I'm not saying that the awareness wasn't there, but it wasn't like what it is now. I think um they were less likely to point to Crohn's and colitis back then. It's where they are now, it's kind of one of their go-to things, those type of symptoms. So yeah, it totally changed my life, uh, physically, mentally, socially. Um, you know, there were times where I like felt trapped by it. Um I was like stuck indoors and I was drained, and I was anxious and worried about when my symptoms would flare. And over time I kind of learned

Stigma, Secrecy, And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_00 2:31

to change my lifestyle a bit, like slow down, listen my body more, you know, find like bits of peace and kind of small activities as opposed to everything having to be a big event. Um and I think nature did become a massive part of that for me, to be honest. It kind of helped me shape like probably the kind of the person I was, you know, based on values around health and balance and you know, to connection to something that uh I probably hadn't really had before. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yeah, it must have been a pretty scary time for you. And you know, and the thing is though that I suppose you say it's it's it's more well known now, and I think you've probably helped with that by you know talking about it, writing your books, um, these kind of things. And so what led you to start sharing your story publicly on social media? Like you know, were you a bit nervous? You know, were you a bit afraid of the responses? What what kind of response have you had from other people?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Oh well, yeah, well, to be honest, uh I mean the funny thing is I'd kept a secret for like 10 years or something, I hadn't really told people. Um I think I think I kind of felt like I I suppose I felt embarrassed and I think it made me feel weak, like less of a man in some way, like it decreased my value as a human, you know. Um I spent a lot of my younger years, especially my late teens and into my early twenties, being quite vain, and you know, I wanted to like have abs and be musly and be the sports person who was fit and strong and whatever else. And and then suddenly all that was taken away from me and I realized oh like I didn't really have much left when I was unwell, so I couldn't bring myself to tell people about it. I felt like it was gonna change how people would look at me and it would affect my life in too many ways. And so I tried to keep it a secret, didn't tell my family, um, didn't tell my friends and my colleagues. Like people knew if I had to go into the hospital for something, but I've always played it down. I said it was like nothing big, like no big deal. Um, because there was a lot of stigma around that kind of stuff, um, especially when you talk about bubbles, you know, it's not very sexy telling someone that you shoot yourself and that you were bleeding, you've been bleeding 20 plus times a day for the last couple of months.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Um I might have to blur that word out, but yeah, give them one of the deep noises, it might make it.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but yeah, I uh so when it came to the time, it was in lockdown, and I've been taking notes over things that happened over the years, I kind of developed into a book, and then when I got into lockdown, I think it's in 2019 originally, and I kind of said, I can't I can't make this into a book, it's too embarrassing. Like, you know, I haven't even spoken to people about it that I know closely. Never mind publish our book online. And then uh it got into 2020 when the COVID locked down, and I just thought, you know what, I've got nothing else to do.

Lockdown, Writing, And Community

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I'm stuck in my house, lived on my own. And at the time as well, um the medication I was on, um, it was mentioned on the NHS website as one of those that you're gonna die basically if you got COVID and you're on this meds. And I uh a doctor friend of mine had got in touch with me and she'd said, like, oh, are you on this medication as a thypo? And I went, Oh yeah, I'm still on it. And she goes, like, don't leave your house, like like this is serious. Like you might like it, you're it's gonna be fatal if you get COVID. So I was one of these people that literally like didn't actually leave my house for like the first two and a bit weeks, like I didn't even open a window because I thought I could breathe in through the window, or you know, uh so to say I was gone a little bit crazy was an understatement, and I needed stuff to output, you know, my energy and my focus, and not drive myself crazy. So um I finished up the bit of the book and I just published it onto Amazon and through like a self-publishing program they have, and um then decided, oh I need to tell people about it. So I created that Instagram page and um started reaching out to people. Um and to be honest, the response was incredible. Like people I had hundreds of people like message me really quickly. Um my pays grew really quick initially. Um I think it turns out there's a lot of people who are in a similar position to me. You felt like they hadn't been seen and they didn't have the courage to speak about you know their own experience. And um I feel like it allowed me to build this community of support for people. And um, yeah, I mean the connection, the connection with the people is what kept me doing it, you know. I it became less about the book and more about being able to connect with others. Um it almost became a two-way kind of therapy thing, you know. I was listening to people's problems and then telling them about mine, and it suddenly the burden didn't feel so heavy, you know. Um after 10 years of keeping it a secret, it suddenly became something that like I was proud of and felt like a strength, not a weakness. And I don't know, I feel like it gave me a purpose in life, you know. Um it made me feel like I had something to give uh that really could help people and myself. And yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Hi Liam.

Nature As Recovery And Reset

SPEAKER_01 7:27

You often talk about how important uh nature is for your well-being. Um when did you realize that being outdoors would help you mentally and physically, especially you're just talking about how long you were cooped up during the the pandemic? So presumably the the freedom of being able to get outdoors now is has made a big difference as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, totally. I think um there was a for a long time I was somebody who I didn't realize it, but spent a lot of time outdoors without realizing it, you know, even just things like I would play golf or I would go like a hike somewhere, like do some roles with friends. And then when I got unwell and I started flaring up and I couldn't really go anywhere, I was like stuck to the toilet all the time, I was in hospital, that's when it really hit me. It was like, oh, I'm actually really missing out on something that's like really kind of important for my physical and mental well-being here. There was like something about fresh air and greenery and being outside in nature that was doing something that I hadn't realised was happening. Uh, it was almost like a subconscious kind of um energy or a vibe, I don't know what you want to call it, but it gave me something um that I didn't realise was getting until it was gone. Um so I think what what basically when I flared and I was stuck inside all the time, that's when I realized. So I purposely started trying to take short walks, and initially it was literally out into my garden and back because when I was flaring super bad, like for example, in 2023, I was like I couldn't even leave my house. I barely left my house in over a year, apart from to go to the hospital, or even that was like a nightmare trying to get there without having some sort of instant. Um so I would start by like taking walks in my garden, and I realized oh I'm actually feeling better just being around green, real grass and bushes and trees and fresh air. Um just enough of that was enough to shift my mindset and makes make me feel like a less like I don't want to say it totally made me better, but it definitely lightened the burden of what I was going through. Um I feel like when I'm in nature, it does something and almost like I feel like everything slows down, you know, like the the kind of stress and anxiety of like a busy life, modern life, between social media and work and friends and colleagues and bills and you know, just life stuff. I just felt like everything slowed down a bit when I'm around nature and um I don't know, it's hard to explain, but when everything else feels chaotic, I feel like it gives you a moment of calm. Um and it definitely became part of my recovery mentally and physically in a lot of ways, um, you know, a part of the healing process.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah.

Favourite Places And Forest Calm

SPEAKER_01 10:06

And you mentioned, you know, sometimes not being able to get much further than your your garden, but are there any particular landscapes or or or spots that uh you find particularly helpful or comforting um when when things have been tough or when you've you you know when you are able to get out a little bit further than than your garden that you you find is is helpful to you?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, yeah, Lord. I have a dog as well, so I I really do enjoy taking them walks places like coastal areas, whatever, around the beach and stuff. Um it's probably sounds cliche, but I do feel like the sound of the waves is such a common thing. You know, a lot of people listen to them now, they put the the nature sounds on waves and rain and stuff, and um I I do feel like it feels like a calming kind of thing it's doing to you. Um but for me, I think it's more there's something to do with the colour and green and being around forest stuff. Um I really love a walk in a forest. I feel like being around trees and bushes and plants and things that feel natural. Um I feel I feel like it's like a nice healing kind of energy you get from them. Um I feel so calm and relaxed, and I don't feel like a pressure on me like I do when I'm kind of in other environments. Um I've always been somebody who struggled to relax properly. I always feel like I need to be doing something productive. You know, I'm not very good at taking a nap and not feeling guilty. Um when I'm in nature, I tend to feel like, oh, this is like I don't know, it just allows me to switch off. Uh so I think definitely it's stuff like forest walks, uh being out hiking when you're away from everything and away from all the busyness of city life, um, yeah, that kind of stuff. Definitely I kind of almost like I feel like it almost lets me sharpen my focus a bit and take a better perspective of things that I'm stressing about out with that, you know. Um it really does make a noticeable difference.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Like obviously I've got a dog too, and taking her to the beach um really helps me. But the one of my favourite places is Tentsmere, where um it's one of our nature reserves, but it's got forest and it's got beach. Um so the two are just the the beach itself is absolutely stunning. So yeah, it's a great place to go, and it you can certainly switch off. Um and you know, you talk about the kind of noise of waves, and then absolutely it does, it's definitely

Connecting With Nature From Home

SPEAKER_02 12:21

a lovely sound. So, what about days when you can't get out? You know, can you find ways to connect with the natural world? You know, even just looking out the window, using I mean, some people have like bird feeders on their windows, um, or listening to bird song or wave music, you know, what what what kind of things do you do?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, like I've learned on my bad maids not to force it, you know, even just things like you've mentioned opening a window. Um I even sat in my car before, and when it's been raining and just the noise of the rain on the roof of the car, I find it really relaxing. Um in my old flat, uh not where I am now, but there were the window, the two windows in the living room both looked out onto a road, but there were like big trees in front of it. And when I lay on the um the sofa looking out the window, you could just see the sky and the trees. And I used to find it such a therapeutic just place to relax, just even the colour of green, windows open, like almost getting the fresh air through, and a bit of like feeling like you're outside because you could see the trees and bushes and stuff. Um, yeah, I found that like really relaxing. And I think sometimes as well, it's better to like I think sometimes when I tell people, especially in the chronic illness community about like getting out into nature, the immediate thing is, oh, I can't manage, I'm not well enough. But I think I think reframing what we're getting into nature really means. Um, you know, we don't have to climb Everest every day. Sometimes it's just like letting the natural world kind of come to you a bit is uh can be just as good.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just walking out your front if you can get out your front door, even if you have a garden, it's just noticing what's going on, and particularly in the autumn, I think it's amazing the amount of fungi and like leaf changing, you know, the colours, it's just lovely. But even just noticing these things can really help. Um and what about when you when you do

Planning Outdoors With Chronic Illness

SPEAKER_02 14:01

get out? When how do you plan or you know adapt your outdoor activities to fit around your health? You know, things like food, access to facilities, do you know, do you have any tips for others with chronic conditions who may perhaps feel anxious about logistics? Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Honestly, planning with a chronic illness is everything, uh, especially when it comes to travel or doing things like this, like outdoor activities. So um for me, I if I was going somewhere and I knew to leave early, like say I was gonna go and walk around, you know, a lake somewhere or somewhere out the road to maybe do a little small Monroe or something, or walk around some nature kind of reserve, whatever it is. I if I know I've got to leave early, the first thing I'd be doing, I'd probably be planning it a couple of days before, at the very minimum, if I'm honest. Um, I'd probably think about things like what I'm eating, um, think about stress management and stuff as well. Because you know, sometimes in this chronic illness um community, there's foods that I know that'll trigger people. Like people have their things they know aren't well for them, but they're often things we really enjoy. So we kind of pick and choose when we'll eat the naughty foods, you know. And what so what I'll do is I'll purposely just only eat like wholesome, like natural, uh non-triggering foods and lead up to an event. So if I know I've got to go somewhere that morning, I'm gonna do an outdoor activity, I'll make sure my day or two before it's really clean and healthy and nice and managing stress and getting good sleep and staying hydrated and doing all the stuff I need to do to make sure that it's not gonna be a bad day for me in terms of accidents or needing toilet access or whatever. Um, and other things as well, it's just like I'm not embarrassed now to take wipes with me in spare boxes, you know. Um, although I'm not flaying now, I can't get off with it, but still, like you put some in your car with you, it gives you a sense of confidence. Um yeah, and I know I know when people are actually in full on flaying up, some people when they've got important things they need to do, they actually wear pads and stuff as well. Um and even though it doesn't do anything, it just gives you a little extra bit of confidence that like you can go and do the thing you do, you need to do, and it's not gonna be a um a total disaster. Um I've I've learned to be flexible too as well. Like if I need to cut sky walk short, or I don't know, like if I'm planning some huge hike and then I get five minutes into it and I realise oh I'm not feeling too good, you know, you can just walk back, you know, you don't have to push yourself uh to the point where you're not going to enjoy it. Like allowing yourself that flexibility, I think, increases the chance you'll actually get out there and do stuff more.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Liam, you talk about um all the the work you've been doing. So you're obviously very busy with uh creating

Routines, Boundaries, And Avoiding Burnout

SPEAKER_01 16:43

content, which which uh you seem to be enjoying, and uh your writing and all your other work commitments. Can you let us know how do you balance your your love for that and and also the the commitments that you that you've made um with avoiding uh burnouts and pushing yourself too hard?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, it's a fine, it's a fine line that one, I think. Um I've learned to like I think I've learned like if I don't care take more care of myself first, like the content and everything else are gonna suffer anyway. Um I I do try and set boundaries or I'll step away from social media a little bit, but if I'm honest, I'm not very good at it. I'm getting better. Um I can do things like create content and schedule posts in advance, or um, you know, I'm quite big on routine as well, so like I try to like stick to my routines as much as possible and rest as part of that. Um and it all comes from like experience because I think when you first get on well and you've got a busy lifestyle, you try to almost be a bit ignorant to it and just like keep going because you think you can push past it. But um I've realized that like assessing your body and how you feel and um allowing yourself to rest, even if you feel slightly guilty about it, it actually makes better for long-term success, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

It's

Purpose, Vulnerability, And Hope

SPEAKER_01 18:00

obviously hugely um impressive and and very brave uh sharing your your personal story online about your your health. Um and you've talked about uh how it's it gave you a sense of purpose. And can you talk about uh what what you hope um it offers others or or what what you're hoping that your your content is able to do for the people that that hear your story?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, well, I kind of just hope that people know they're not defined by their illness. Um you know, you can live a full life roll safe, Glitus is it might just look a little bit different than you expected. Um I want to show that vulnerability can be powerful as well, like talking about the hard days, you know, it doesn't make you a weak, it makes you real. Uh and if someone sees my content and they feel less alone or I don't know, they get inspired to go outside and take their first walk or feel more confident about right now, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's great. And you know, listeners if they may be in a tough place right now, you know, what perhaps they're stuck indoors and you know, whether that's through anxiety, depression, or maybe they're just feeling overwhelmed for whatever reason, you know. What's what's your advice for making that kind of the first steps, the initial that kind of initial move outside?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

I think it's probably

First Steps Outside And Consistency

SPEAKER_00 19:12

just start small. You know, like I mentioned earlier, you don't need to climb Everest. Um you can just step outside your door and breathe and feel the air, even if it's just for a couple of minutes. Um even more so if you've got a garden you can spend time in, you know, go and sit in your garden for half an hour. Um I think the key is consistency as well. Like if you stick to small steps and let the momentum kind of build up with it, you know. Um you don't necessarily have to be doing something productive outside, you know, don't even be ticking off I'm and roll off your list or making your way around a circuit of nature somewhere that you always wanted to do, you know, could just being present and being outside and appreciating those moments, you know. And I I think it does add up and it does shift how you feel uh generally.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah, absolutely. And I think even just I think I learned a lot of people are working from home as well, it's just making sure they get out for a break, either, you know, lunchtime or whatever, and maybe it is just having that kind of routine, isn't it, every every day, if possible, obviously. Um if if people can.

Advice For Newly Diagnosed

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Um and you know, if somebody is newly diagnosed with a chronic illness, if they're listening, what message would you share with them?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

I suppose the the first thing is that it's okay to feel like I don't know, upset and lost and confused and all that stuff, because I did as well. Um I mean, I'm probably the best example of someone who's too embarrassed to tell people for a decade. Um you know, I totally get it. Uh you need to give yourself time to process all it's a big change, and um it it isn't the end of your story either, you know. It's like I know a lot of people, as I did, would feel like, oh god, that's the fun over, it's the end, it's the person who I thought I was, and I'm not there anymore, and I can't do this, I can't do that. And it does feel like life's over at points, but I think you'll learn more about yourself and the people around you during chronic illness. Like I used to say it was kind of like a filter for filter now. Um fake friends and the real people in your life while I'm about, you know, uh, and you'll you'll build strength in ways you never expected, and it allow you to connect with people that are more true and real than probably the people around you currently, um and it you can still live a full, meaningful life, it's just one that's built around your own pace uh and not

Community, Knowledge, And Support

SPEAKER_00 21:30

someone else's.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

And did you feel when you were actually diagnosed? Obviously, you had a long period of time when you weren't diagnosed, did you feel slightly kind of mentally better about knowing what you were diagnosed with? Did that help in any way?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Uh yeah, I suppose it did. I suppose it did. I think it's hard because like um, well, you know what I tell people, I tell people all the time as well, is like knowledge is powered. Like, if you're unconfused, you're not sure, or you're feeling like you don't have the answers you need, like that's one thing the community is amazing for is like being able to connect with others and find out information that you didn't know before. Um, it's unfortunate because of the way things are with NHS that you often might go to your GP for help and they either don't have the answers or they don't have the time. And it's really a common thing amongst people within the community, chronic illness community, is that they they go to their GP to tell them the stuff that's wrong with them, but they may get diagnosed and they get a five-minute, ten-minute chat, but it's not enough. It's not enough to answer all the questions they might have. Isn't that enough to make them feel like more comfortable with the diagnosis? Whereas they come to the online community and there's all these people who've been there, done that, had it for years, and they know everything you've been through, and they can kind of provide you with the support and and and kind of knowledge that you need to um kind of allow yourself to work through life and get yourself in a good place where you're enjoying life again, you know.

Everyday Ways To Make Space For Nature

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Speaking of in enjoying life again, uh we we asked all our guests to come on this on the show. Um what they do to make space for nature in their lives and and any advice or top tips you might have any for for anybody who's listening as to to how they they might be able to do the same and and uh make find ways to make space for nature.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I think uh I think making it part of your kind of making it part of your daily life, it doesn't have to be a special occasion. Um I think like you mentioned, like, you know, even just on your lunch break, or maybe it's part of your commute to work. Um even if it's just a few minutes before bed, you go outside, you get some fresh air. Um it it doesn't necessarily nature doesn't have to necessarily be somewhere you travel to, you know, it's all around us, and um I think we can make the most of that.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Thank you so much, Liam, and thanks for sharing your story and your insight with us today. It's a reminder that that even when life feels unpredictable, you know, slowing down, connecting with the natural world right on our doorsteps, you know, can bring calm and perspective and and some real healing. Thanks so much, Liam. Thank

Closing And Resources

SPEAKER_01 24:00

you.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Thanks for listening. For more ways to connect with and help protect Scotland's natural world, go to nature.scot.