It's that time in the USA to vote for our national leaders. Other nations don't necessarily get to choose their leaders in this way. Some don't get to make the choice at all. Arnie and Fred discuss what the Bible says about the selection, choosing and cooperating with government officials. The discussion centers around the specific inspired passages in the Bible that deal with this subject. Not surprisingly, specific individuals are named in these passages with the specific actions taken by God are recorded. Take about 30 minutes to listen in on the discussion. You may be surprise4d at what the Bible says about this important subject.
It's that time in the USA to vote for our national leaders. Other nations don't necessarily get to choose their leaders in this way. Some don't get to make the choice at all. Arnie and Fred discuss what the Bible says about the selection, choosing and cooperating with government officials. The discussion centers around the specific inspired passages in the Bible that deal with this subject. Not surprisingly, specific individuals are named in these passages with the specific actions taken by God are recorded. Take about 30 minutes to listen in on the discussion. You may be surprise4d at what the Bible says about this important subject.
Fred 0:00
This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at 10:30am and 5:30pm. We meet for bible study at 9:30am on Sunday, at 7pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc-i.net or to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com
Arnie 0:32
Good afternoon. This is Arnie Granke and Fred Gosnell, we're with Woodland church of Christ here in Sumter, and this is What Does the Bible Say? Here in the United States, we're in the middle of another election cycle. And we're fortunate to be able to vote for our national leaders, but sometimes it seems, almost seems as if the next election season begins as soon as the last one ended. So this is a good time maybe to think about that and and what does the Bible say about choosing and cooperating with our government officials? And it's possible we could be in for a surprise as we read these scriptures.
Fred 1:21
Well, that's true. And of course, we want to know what the Bible says about it. And let's start in First Samuel chapter two The Hannah had had been barren for many years and she had been praying for child and she got that child and she's prays there. And she says, The Lord maketh poor and maketh rich. He bringeth low and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust and lifteth up the needy from the ash heap, to set them among princes and to make them inherit the throne glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's and He hath set the world upon them. So, she says that the Lord's the one that sets certain people among the princes and she evidently understands that the Lord is in control of people that are in positions of authority.
Arnie 2:21
Well, not only that, but there's another passage in Samuel that I think fits fits with that Course, Hannah's son was Samuel himself, and and he grew up and and served the Lord all of his, all of his life and as a prophet. And in First Samuel chapter nine and verse, verse 15. The Lord had told Samuel in his ear, a day before Saul came saying, tomorrow, about this time I will send thee man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to become an to be captain of my people, Israel that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines. For I've looked upon my people because their cries come unto me. And when Samuel saw Saul, the Lord said unto him, Behold, the man whom I spake to thee of, this same shall inherit shall reign over my people. So here, here's God telling Samuel to anoint Saul, this would be king, the one who became King Saul, anoint him Captain over his people. And and of course, God had told Samuel the Prophet that he would meet Saul, he described what the circumstances were under which Saul would be coming to him and what he was supposed to do. And you could read about we won't take the time for that now, but you can read it in First Samuel chapter nine beginning in verse 25. And go on into chapter 10. As you read this, about Saul, anointing, or rather Samuel anointing Saul. And interestingly enough, later on Saul disobeyed God's instructions in the battle with the Amalekites, God had given him instructions of the what the casualty list was supposed to look like with the with the Amalekites and they were to be entirely wiped out. And, and Saul had disobeyed the Lord's instructions in that battle and the Lord deposed him. So the Lord, chose him and deposed him. Sam, First Samuel chapter 15 verse 22, Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying, the voice of the Lord. Behold to obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou has rejected the word of the Lord, He has also rejected thee from being king. And Saul said undto Samuel, I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and thy words because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. Now therefore I pray thee pardon my sin, and turn again with me that I may worship the Lord. And Samuel said to Saul I will not return with thee for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord. And the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel. And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle and it rent and Samuel said to him, the Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day and hath given it to a neighbor of thine that is better than thou. And that was going to be David who became the the king there. So So God had set up Saul, but he also took him down.
Fred 6:14
Arnie, when he didn't obey what he said. Arnie he didn't obey what he said. But Job also had something to say about this. Job, of course, was being accused of by his friends, of being guilty of some kind of a sin. So he was arguing his innocence. And he told some of the ways that God deals with good and evil people. And he says in Job 12, 18 and 19, He looseth the bond of kings and girdeth their loins with a girdle. He leadeth princes away, spoiled and overthroweth the mighty. And of course, all of that, God doesn' tell us in the Bible, that he favors a particular government or a particular way of doing things. Men can can do those things. But he gives certain responsibilities, to government, to kings. And when they don't do those kinds of things, then he changes them. And we find other people saying a lot about this, especially Daniel,
Arnie 7:10
National officials are not there just to you know, hand out nice things. They're there to obey the Lord. And and when they don't do that, their job will certainly be quickly curtailed. In Psalm 75 and verse four, the Psalmist said, I said unto the fools, deal not foolishly and to the wicked, lift not up the horn. Lift not up your horn on high, speak not with a stiff neck for promotion cometh neither from the east nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge. He put us down one and setting up another. And so here's here's God as the judge is again, dealing in the kingdoms of of men and deals with the leader, not just the individual.
Fred 8:09
Jeremiah says similar things and of course Jeremiah was speaking to the people, I believe was before they went into captivity. And Jeremiah begins in 27, four through eight. He says, And command them, to say unto their masters, Thus saiththe LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Thus shall ye say unto your masters, I have made the earth, the man, the beasts that are upon the ground, by my great power, and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me. And now I have given all these lands unto the hands of Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, my servant, and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve Him, and all nations shall serve him and his son, his own son, until the very time of his land come, and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him and it shall come pass that the nation the kingdom, which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck on the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish saith the Lord, with the sword and with the famine and with the pestilence until I have consumed them by his hands. So Jeremiah says in no uncertain terms that Nebuchadnezzar was ruling by God's authority and he was ruling from from the Medit, Mediterranean Sea to Sidon, even to Edom him which is between Sinai and Arabia, and it would be for three generations.
Arnie 9:35
When, when Jude, when the tribe of Judah the kingdom of Judah, completely began to disobey God and and go away from him. God Of course, sent them into captivity in, in Babylon under under King Nebuchadnezzar and so many of many of the prophets And and other individuals that were of high rank, I guess you'd say, in in Judea and Judah were sent up there. And there were a number of them like, like Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who had, who had some other names as well had some Jewish names. And those individuals served King Nebuchadnezzar and Nebuchadnezzar had had a dream one night and it and it tremendously disturbed him and he called in all of his counselors who were heathen counselors to ask them what the dream meant, and I guess he knew that they were not always all that honest about things. So he said, the way I'll know if if your forecast is correct, is when you tell me what the dream was. They never could figure out how to do that and he gave the order for them all to be put to death. And word reached Daniel about that. And he prayed and and that night The Lord gave gave Daniel the answer to the, to the dream. And of course he went on the next day and he spoke with with Nebuchadnezzar. Daniel chapter two beginning in verse 19, says that, There was a secret revealed unto the Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven, Daniel answered and said, blessed be the God of be the name of God forever and ever for wisdom and might are his and he changeth the times and the seasons. He removeth kings and setteth up kings. He giveth wisdom unto the wise and knowledge to them that know understanding. He revealeth the deep and secret things; he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. I thank thee and praise thee Oh thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might and hast made known unto me now, what we desired of thee. For thou hast now made us onto, made known unto us, the Kings matter and, and then of course, the next day he went with that information and passed that along to, to Nebuchadnezzar.
Fred 12:35
Well, then, he goes on to say that, that is Daniel in Daniel 2:44 and 45. He interprets the dream and he said, In the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms. It shall stand forever for as much as sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it break in pieces, the iron, the brass, the clay and the silver and the gold, the great God hath made known to the king, what shall come to pass hereafter; the dream is certain, and the interpretation is sure. So of course the days of these kings he's talking about there is the the fourth Empire which would be would be Rome. And course he's discussing this kingdom that would be set up without hands. It's a spiritual kingdom. He's discussing the Lord's Kingdom, but to show Nebuchadnezzar that he was in fact, telling him the things that God revealed to him.
Arnie 13:39
Yeah, Nebuchadnezzar made Daniel. Yeah, almost what you think of as, as I guess being like the secretary of state or, or something very high official in his in his regime, because of the fact that he recognized that that Daniel had this kind of of wisdom. And in the dream that he had had, it was a huge statue, the head of gold represented Nebuchadnezzar, the shoulders and breast of, of silver, represented a kingdom that would follow in and that that kingdom turned out to be the Medo Persian Empire, the, the belly and loins represented, which were made of brass represented the
Arnie 14:35
well now I forgot which one that one "Macedonia", that's right Macedonian, Macedonian Empire and and then of course the fourth Empire was the was the Roman Empire and, and and Samuel a rather Daniel got all of that right and not only did the Jewish people there benefit under Nebuchadnezzar's rule but Nebuchadnezzar did as as well.
Fred 15:05
And well So later on, Nebuchadnezzar had some problems, and he he became a very proud of what he had accomplished. And he went through a number of things. And he, he tells us God of what he went through when he was deposed, and he was going to have to spend seven years in the wild and he was going to have to eat grass like, like the ox like an animal, and then he would be restored. And he, he learned from this that God rules in the kingdoms of men and sets up whoever he, he will, and we start reading here in Daniel, chapter four, in verse 15, and this is what he was told would happen, Let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth, let his heart be changed from man's and let a beasts heart be given unto him; and let seven times or seven years, pass over him, this matter is by the decree of the watchers. And the demand by the word, of the holy ones to the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth is in the kingdom of men and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basests of men. And of course, we get some pretty base men, sometimes they're in positions of authority.
Arnie 16:23
And that's not just in America either. That's right. That's that's in every in every nation, you have some some pretty, some pretty, pretty bad individuals. And I think maybe a part of the lesson of that is even when you have a bad individual serving in the position of power. There must be a reason why God had him in that position. We don't always know what that reason is. We shouldn't just imagine that that official maybe he is 180 degrees different from our favorite, say president or whatever it would be. We have no idea why that individual is in that position, Just that God decided he was the one for that for that responsibility. Daniel, chapter four is the second place where this lesson is mentioned in verse 24, This is the interpretation. O king. By the way, he had Nebuchadnezzar had received another dream and wanted to know what it meant. He said, this is the interpretation, O king. And this is the decree of the Most High which has come upon my lord the king, that they shall drive thee from men, thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven. And seven times, shall pass over thee, or seven years, Till thou know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and give it to whomsoever He will. And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots, it was a vision about, about a tree being cut down, Thy thy kingdom shall be, shall be sure, under the after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do do rule. So that's the second time that that comes up. And, and then I think about a year later that's finally executed, isn't it?
Fred 18:42
Yes and Nebuchadnezzar was was up and looking at the at the garden that he had created and the things that he had done and he was bragging about all of these things he had done, and Daniel four 31 says, While the word was in the king's mouth There fell a voice from heaven saying O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken. The kingdom is departed from thee. And they shall drive thee from men and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of field. They shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, seven years, until thou know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men and giveth it to whomsoever He will. There's our third time, the same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men. And did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles feathers and his nails like birds claws. And at the end of the days, and this is Nebuchadnezzar writing this. "Yeah, he's speaking". Or writing, verse 34. At the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes to the heavens. And mine understanding returned to me. And I bless the Most High and I praised and honor Him that liveth forever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion and his kingdom is from generation to generation and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing and he does, doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and none can stay his hand or say unto him, What doest Thou? At the same time my reason returned to me. And for the glory of my kingdom, my honor and brightness returned unto me. And my counselors, and my lords sought unto me, and I was established in my kingdom and excellent majesty was added unto me. Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of Heaven. All His works are truth, and His ways judgment and those that walk in pride, he's able to abase. Nebuchadnezzar learned this lesson. God's in control. It doesn't matter how great you might become. If you get proud, you start violating God's will. You're gone.
Arnie 20:46
And he did not equate God the God of heaven with the gods that he had been worshipping here tofore. So, Nebuchadnezzar actually became a believer and probably was a, was a much better leader. Well, his his son, of course, became the king after him. And then his grandson became the king. He was the third in, in line there in Babylon. And we've all probably used the expression at some point, saw the writing on the wall. Well, this is where that expression expression came from. Belshazzar, who was Nebuchadnezzar's grandson failed to learn that lesson that his grandfather had learned. He had wild parties, they, they actually used utensils, goblets and things that had been sanctified that had been a part of the of the temple in Jerusalem and they they had drunken parties, using those And, and so forth. And finally, God brought all of that, all of that to an end, as he was there in one of those parties. Suddenly he saw part of a hand against the wall and the hand was writing something that wasn't a person attached, attached to it. And, and it wrote four words there on the the wall and he had no idea what they were. And so he came to Daniel, for Daniel to interpret those interpret those for him, and Daniel, of course, begins by telling him the lesson that is that Nebuchadnezzar, Belchazzar's grandfather had learned of God's ruling over the kingdoms and the kings of the of the world and in which belches are had failed to apply. Now, Belchazzar's Babylonian kingdom was was going to go away and and he was not going to be the king there anymore. Dan... Daniel chapter five beginning in verse 17. Then Daniel answered and said unto the king, Let thy gifts be to thyself and give thy rewards to another. And I will read the writing in.. unto the king and make known to him the interpretation. Oh thou King, the most high gave Nebuchadnezzar thy grandfather a kingdom and majesty and glory and honor, and for the majesty that he gave him all people, nations and languages tremble and feared before him, whom he would he slew, whom he would he kept alive, and whom he would he set up whom he would he put down. But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened with pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him. And he was driven from the sons of men and his heart was made like the beasts and his dwelling was with the wild asses; they fed, they fed, un.. fed him with grass like oxen, like oxen. His body was wet with the dwe of Heaven, till he knew that the Most High God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointed over it whomsoever He will. And thou, his son, oh Belchazzar hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this. But hast lifted up himself against the Lord of heaven. They brought the vessels of His house before thee and thou and thy Lords, thy wives and thy concubines have drunk wine in them, and hast praised the gods of silver and gold, of brass, iron, wood and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified: Then was the part of the hand sent from Him. And this writing was written, this is the writing that was written Me-ne Me-ne, Te-kel, U-Phar-Sin. This is the interpretation of the thing. Me-ne, God hath numbered thy kingdom and finished it. Te-Kel; Thou art weighed in the balances and art found wanting. Pe-Res; Thy kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians. Then commanded Belshazzar and they clothed Daniel with scarlet put a chain gold chain about his neck and made a proclamation concerning him that he should be the third ruler in the Kingdom. In that night was Belchazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain. And Darius the Mede took the kingdom being about three score and two years old. So here here this this kingdom was finished, God determined this, finished, weighed, wanting and and given to the Medes and the Persians.
Fred 26:28
God decided. When when Jesus was being judged by, by Pilate, we have some passages here in john 19. And it begins in verse seven, The Jews answered him and Pilate, we have a law and by our law, he ought to die because he made himself the son of God. When Pilate therefore heard that saying he was more afraid. And went again into the judgment hall and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. Then saith Pilate to Him, Speakest thou not unto me? Knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above. Therefore, he that delivered me into thee hath the greater sin. And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him. So Jesus says, Your power comes from God comes from above, and you wouldn't have it unless God gave it to you. And of course, that's what we have learned God rules in the kingdoms of men. And and if God wants a particular person to rule, he's gonna rule and if God wants a particular person to be gone, he's gone. And the Bible teaches that and we all we all have to remember that.
Arnie 27:48
It Pontius Pilate was not in that position because of it because of seizure, not in that position because of Rome. He was in that position because God put him in that position, responsibility. Paul writes to the Romans in Romans chapter 13. And be.. beginning in verse one. He tells us about government being God ordained, he says, Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there's no power but of God, the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God, and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. wilt thou then not be afraid of the power, do that which is good, thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is a minister of God, to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid, for he beareth not the sword in vain, for he's a minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil, Wherefore you must needs be subject not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake, for this cause pay ye tribute also, they are God's ministers attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues tribute to whom tribute is due custom to whom custom, fear to whom fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. So with with these thoughts in in mind, we might think that we elect our government officials here in in America or whatever country you might be in where you're hearing our podcast, but in fact, it's God who rules in the nations of man and bestows the cloak of authority upon whomever He chooses. The system employed in each nation accomplishes His ends In this regard, whether the means are election, inheritance, or violence, our duty as people of God is to respect, honor and obey those exercising the authority God has entrusted to them. never forgetting that one day, we must also give account. We thank you for listening to what does the Bible say. We hope that you'll tune us in again. Next Lord's Day. Have a good week.