What Does The Bible Say?
30 Minute Discussions Of Bible Subjects
What Does The Bible Say?
What Does the Bible Say - Is It Literal or Figurative?
In this episode, Arnie and Fred begin a discussion of what some people think of the Bible. Some Bible student's regard everything the Scriptures say to be literally true, for instance trees talked and chose a king. Others think the entire Bible is figurative, that everything symbolizes something else, and no one can understand it except a special few. Neither view is correct. We begin by noting that Paul mentioned using a figure of speech in one of his letters to the Christians in Corinth. Arnie discusses what is recorded in Judges chapter 9 of what Jotham said there to illustrate some of the figurative language he used. We note that the Bible is verbally inspired. We discuss what this means, and how specific it is in what is recorded. Jesus discussed a number of events from the Old Testament and treated them as historically accurate and literal. We discuss the implications of what He had to say. We close out this episode by noting that Jesus and the apostles understood some historical and literal Bible accounts to contain figurative language. We look at one of those accounts. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.
This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty am and five thirty pm. We meet for bible study at nine thirty am on Sunday and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc-i.net or to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com.
Arnie:Good afternoon. This is Arne Granke and Fred Gosnell. We're with the church of Christ at Woodland in Sumter, South Carolina, and this is what does the Bible say? And we would like to talk about some Bible passages with you. We hope that you'll be interested in hearing some things that the Bible teaches. And we also would invite you to come and worship with us or join us in a Bible study. We meet Sunday mornings for worship, Sunday evenings for worship, and also Sunday mornings for Bible class and Wednesday evenings for Bible class. We hope that you'll come and visit with us if you happen to be in the Sumter area for some reason, Fred and Fred and I have been thinking about the fact that that there are a lot of people that have varying ideas about the the scriptures. So Fred, why don't I toss it to you and let you explain what the confusion is.
Fred Gosnell:Okay. Well, we ask the question, Well, the Bible, is it literal, or is it figurative? And of course, some, some people look at look at the Bible as being all, all literal, and some look at it as being mostly figurative. When we look at First Corinthians, four, six. Notice what Paul says there to the Corinthians. He says, These things, brethren I have in a figure. Notice the word figure, Transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes, that you might learn in us not to think the King James says of men above that which is written, or not to go beyond that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. So some Bible students, of course, regard everything in the scriptures as to be literally true. And Arnie is going to going to read judges nine, a portion there where the trees talked and chose the king, and he's going to talk about that here in a minute, that's Joseph's jotham's fable. Others think the entire Bible is figurative, that everything symbolizes something else, and no one can understand it, except maybe a special few that are usually themselves included. The result is that scoffers mock the Bible as a book of myths and legends, or unintelligible gibberish. Either view isn't correct. So let's discuss literal and figurative language in the Bible, Arnie
Arnie:Fred, you mentioned Judges chapter nine. I'm going to, I'm going to start here in in verse eight that tells us, The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them. And they said, unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us. But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness? Wherewith by me, they honor God and man and go to be promoted over the trees. And the tree said to the fig tree, Come thou and reign over us. But the fig tree said unto them, should I forsake my sweetness and my good fruit and go to be promoted over the trees? Then the trees said unto the vine, Come thou and reign over us. And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine which cheereth God and man and go to be promoted over the trees? Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou and reign over us, and the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth, you anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow, and if not, let fire come out of the bramble and devour the cedars of Lebanon. I'm going to skip down to verse 20 here. There's a little bit more that's that's said there, but, but we're trying to catch where the trees are speaking and, and that appears to be figurative language,I think. Verse 20 said, But if not, let fire come out from Abimelech and devour the men of Shechem and the House of Milo and let the fire come out from the men of Shechem and from the house of Milo and devour Abimelech. And Jotham ran away and fled and went to Beer and dwelt there for fear of Abimelech, his brother. So interesting passage of scripture there. Fred, you suppose those trees really were speaking to one another?
Fred Gosnell:Well, no. Of course, the trees represent people, and people might, might remember that, because when you get to Revelation, you will find some of the same language there, and trees will represent people there too. And and, of course, at the end of of the passages you read, of course, that's identified, let fire come, come from, out from Abimelech. Course, Abimelech was, was going to devour these people of Shechem that that were talking as as trees and brambles and and whatnot. So all of that is inspired. Those words are inspired, uh, Bibles inspired from beginning to end. And notice Matthew 10, Jesus is talking to his apostles here. He says, Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves. Were they really sheep? Well, of course not. They were sheep. They were they were gentle people, but they were sent in the midst of wolves, people that were not so gentle. But be ye therefore wise be therefore wise as serpents, and there he uses the serpent there and harmless as doves. So But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues, and you shall be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for the testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when you deliver when they deliver you up, Take no thought how or what you shall speak for it shall be given you in that same hour, what you shall speak, for. It is not you that speak, but the Spirit of our your Father, which speaketh in you. So Jesus is saying, you're going to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, and don't worry about what you're going to say, just say what, what you are given. And of course, when we read that in this passage, we read that. And you know, most people will understand the the use of the word sheep and the use of the word wolves. And of course, he he explains that as as well. So we have to pay attention to what the words say when we read our Bible and and understand that there's figurative language used in the Bible, and we need to try to understand the places where it is figurative rather than literal.
Arnie:And you know, we we shouldn't just automatically assume, because something is in figurative language, that that the whole Bible is is figurative. We speak a lot of times in in figurative terms. Sometimes we we're literal in what we say, but other times we we do speak in in figurative language, but we recognize that that that's not really how things are. Those are illustrations of what of how things are. So people sometimes want to have a little bit of maybe authority, so they pretend to be a little wiser than you are and understand the Bible a little better than you do, and that's not necessarily so. They may be fooling themselves. Don't let them, them fool you. First, Corinthians, chapter two, Fred, is another passage that addresses the fact that the Bible is is inspired. Beginning in verse 12, Paul writes. He says, Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God, which things also we speak, not in words, which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. And that's a good expression right there that explains why there's figurative language in in the scripture to help us to understand the point that God is making in his his Word, and the fact that there's a comparison that identifies certain spiritual things with being, Uh, spiritual facts as to how they really are. And
Fred Gosnell:Yes. And Paul, when he wrote to the Thessalonians in First Thessalonians, 2, 13 here, he notes to them. He says, For this cause also thank we, God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God, which you heard of us, of course, the us, there being the apostles, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. So, so there's a difference between the inspired words that the inspired apostles provided in the first century, and the Thessalonians recognized that. And of course, they wrote those words down, and we have them today. And there's a difference between their inspired words and the word of men, that is uninspired men, but and it is the truth. And then He also notes that the word of God effectually works also in them that believe. The word of God is designed in such a way that that it it does work within the individual who reads those words and understands those words. Of course, Jesus gives us a parable talks about the words and the different condition of people's hearts in in another place. So, but nevertheless, the word of God is inspired the apostles provided those words they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. And those in the first century, like the Thessalonians, recognized that they received those words as being inspired and as being words from God, not just words from uninspired men.
Arnie:Yeah. and and when we use the word inspired, maybe we need to understand exactly what it's telling us there, because that the word inspired has to do with being God breathed. It's as if God is actually literally speaking to us and breathing; of course, when we when we speak, we breathe out our our breath comes across our vocal cords and and the various sounds of the words are expressed in in that way. And it's as if, as if, God is doing precisely that on the written page of of His Word. Uh, one more passage, if you don't mind me adding another one is second, Timothy, chapter three, and beginning in verse 16, where Paul is writing to to Timothy, who was one of the one of the men who worked with him And and visited various places, teaching the gospel in the first century. Beginning in verse 16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God. So just to pause there and say, what this is telling us is when we're reading it off of the page, it's as if God is literally speaking to us right then and there, vocally there. It's given by inspiration of God, and is profitable; profitable for what? profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. There are a number of of benefits to be received by understanding what God has has inspired and what he's saying to us, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. that the perfection that's talking here is not an absolute perfection. It has. It has to do with becoming what God would have us to be, recognizing the fact that man is imperfect by his own doing.
Fred Gosnell:Right. Yeah, a better word for me that the man of God may be complete with would probably be a better word.
Arnie:Good, good term.
Fred Gosnell:So, so Jesus was always confronted by various religious leaders in in the first century and in Matthew 22 we find he was conferred, confronted by the Sadducees. And notice the the text tells us that the Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection. So we begin in Matthew, 22 verse 23, So the same day came to him, the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and ask him saying, Master Moses said, If a man die having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren. And the first when he had married a wife deceased and having no issue, left his wife to his brother.Likewise, the second also and the third unto the seventh and last of all, the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection, whose wife shall she be of the seven? For they all had her. And of course, the the what we're going to show here, what Jesus is going to show, is that the Word of God is inspired in the exact words that we are provided so So Jesus says. Jesus answered in verse 29 and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God, for in the resurrection, they neither marry nor given in marriage, but or as the angels or the messengers of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, Have ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. So we have to draw a conclusion from that, if God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of course, Abraham Isaac and Jacob, from a physical standpoint, at that time, were dead. But God is Jesus says God is the God of them. Then he says that God is not the God of the dead or the living. Well, then Abraham Isaac and Jacob are alive. They're not dead.
Arnie:That's an inescapable conclusion.
Fred Gosnell:So, so, and the Bible does that sometimes it gives us, there are facts that are provided and they're inspired, come from God, and from those facts that are provided, we have to draw, sometimes draw conclusions from it. And that's what Jesus told them, You don't you don't know the Scriptures. That's your problem. And of course, they didn't believe what the scripture said. In spite of what that said, the Sadducees still did not believe in the resurrection
Arnie:And and those who are there, those of whom there are this the what's the word that I want, ancestors still do not believe to to this day. uh, Galatians chapter, chapter three, not only shows that the exact words are are found in the Scripture, but even to the very letter those words are inspired by God. So Galatians three beginning in verse 16, Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, he said, not And to seeds that would be plural, As of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, singular, which is Christ. So, so here even the plurality or the singularity of of a word, even that is specified by God when he gave the scriptures to be recorded for men to read.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah. Paul makes his own, his whole argument based on in the English one letter, the the letter S, yeah, so, and then, well, then, of course, Jesus, Jesus treated accounts of certain events in the Bible as historically accurate and literal. For instance, I'll read the the account of the creation, and then Arnie's going to read something that Jesus said about that. So in Genesis, 2, 23, and 24 the account tells us, And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh. So, so, so we are told of Adam, of course, had already been created and and then Adam talks about the woman, and talks about why she was called woman, and then talks about what she is supposed to do. Well, the man is supposed to leave his father and his mother and take a wife, and then they're going to be one flesh. They're going to be one family, one together as one flesh. So Jesus talked about that later on, didn't He, Arnie?
Arnie:Well, it Mark records that actually in in Mark chapter 10, excuse me and and beginning in in verse 29 uh, tells us that, The Pharisees came to him and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife, tempting him? And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? They said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, for the hardness of your heart, he wrote this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause, shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they twain, shall be one flesh. So then they they are no more twain or two, but one flesh, whatsoever. I'm sorry, What therefore God has joined together. Let not man put to put usunder. And that's an important point here. Typically, human beings have have decided whether they want to continue in a marriage situation or or not, if they want to have one wife or half a dozen wives, or just exactly how they want it to be. That's not what God designed. He designed there to be one one man, one woman, one relationship there, and man is not to alter that in any way by putting it asunder and doing whatever pleased him,
Fred Gosnell:Right. And of course, Jesus dealt with divorce a little bit later, and provided that there would be only one, one way that that could occur. But again, there was a situation in in the Old Testament, in First Samuel, where, where David ate the ate the show bread that was, that was in the temple. And in First Samuel 21, three through six, the the account is written there says, Now therefore what is under thine hand? give me five loaves of bread in mine hand, David speaking, and what there is present. And the priest answered David and said, There is no common bread under my hand, but there is hallowed bread, if the young men have kept themselves, at least from women. And David answered the priest and said unto him of a truth, women have been kept from us about these three days since I came out. And the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common. They were, needed something to eat. And yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel, so the priest gave him hallowed bread, for there was no bread there, but the show bread and was taken from before the Lord to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away. So it wasn't lawful, actually, for them to eat the bread. But the condition was such that it was allowed in this in this situation. Well, David used that, or David, Jesus used that when he answered the Pharisees later on, didn't he Arnie?
Arnie:Well, in, yeah, that's recorded in Mark chapter two, as a matter of fact. And starting at verse, verse 23 of that passage, It came to pass that he went through the corn fields on the Sabbath day. By the way, remember, the Sabbath day was the day that work was not permitted among the Jewish people, among Israel. So he's he's going through the corn fields on the Sabbath day. And his disciples began as they went to pluck the ears of corn, the Pharisees said unto them, Behold, why do they on the Sabbath day, that which is not lawful, as if they were actually trying to, I guess, clean the field out and and harvest the entire field. They're just getting a little bit to eat there, for crying out loud. And and he said unto them, Have you never read what David did when he had need and was hungry? He and they that were with him how he went into the house of God in the days of AI thar, the high priest, and did eat the show bed bread which is not lawful to eat, but for the priest, and gave also to them which were with him. And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath then. And of course, Jesus is referring to himself as the the Son of Man here and and he determines these things regarding the Sabbath, not a bunch of people who just just make being a priest a livelihood for themselves. Yes, and, and, of
Fred Gosnell:Yes. and, and course, Jesus is, is taking these occasions that are recorded for us in the Old Testament. And he talks about em So, so those accounts are, are true that and they are literally, historically accurate, and Jesus uses them in his teaching. Well, there's another one now, in the case of Jonah, in Jonah chapter one, verses 15 through 17, some some people don't really believe that Jonah was in the belly of the large fish. Well, Jonah 1, 15, through 17, says, They took up Jonah, they cast him forth into the sea, and the sea ceased from her raging. Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly and offered a sacrifice unto the Lord and made vows. Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. So some people say, Well, you weren't really there. That's just a story. But Arnie, what did Jesus say about that?
Arnie:Well, what Jesus did address that as a matter of fact, in in Matthew, chapter 12, Matthew records him as saying beginning in verse 39 as He answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign. There shall no sign be given it but the sign of the prophet Jonah. What's the sign of the prophet Jonah? Verse 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights and the whale's belly, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation and shall condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. And behold, a greater than Jonah is here. Well, of course, Jesus was, in fact, greater than than Jonah. They'll listen to Jonah. Why will they not listen to Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God? Well, the fact is that they wouldn't acknowledge that Jesus was the Messiah, and to this day, they still do not.
Fred Gosnell:Yes. And of course, sometimes Jesus and the apostles would would understand some historical and literal Bible accounts to contain figurative language. And for instance, let's look at the case of Abraham when he was told to offer Isaac as a sacrifice in Genesis, 22 nine through 13 there, the record tells us, And they came to the place which God had told him of, and Abraham built an altar there and laid the wood in order, bound Isaac, his son, and laid him on the altar, upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven and said, Abraham, Abraham. And he said, Here am I. And he said, lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him. For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horn. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. Arnie, the Hebrew writer, wrote us. Wrote about this in the Hebrews 11. What did he have to say about that?
Arnie:That's That's in verse 17, as as a matter of fact, and the Hebrew writer tells us, By faith, Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac. The point is that he was obeying God, the command that God had given him, God later rescinded that command because of the fact that he recognized that Abraham had had obeyed Him. And it was also important for for Abraham as well, to understand that his obedience to God is is rewarded here in in what the outcome of this was, he received, he that received the promises offered up his only begotten Son, of whom it was said that in Isaac shall thy seed be called. Now, here's here's the the where the the stack is capped. Verse, verse 19, Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead. From whence he was, received him in a figure. So, so he believed that God would do that. How many of us would expect that when someone dies that Well, God's going to raise them up? Probably not very many, and none of us have experienced that. But Abraham hadn't experienced that either beforehand, but he obeyed what God said. And the result was that God indeed fulfilled Abraham's hope there that he would raise him up. And in fact, did that. A lot of people want to say that, Oh, well, that's just figurative language. No, it's exactly what the record tells us. If we don't believe that it's the record, then we don't believe the Bible. Fred, we've got some more we can say about this. I think. Can we talk about this again next Lord's day?
Fred Gosnell:Yes, we'll have to. We're out of time.
Arnie:Let's, let's do that. And we, we appreciate you listening to us, and we hope to be with you again next Lord's Day. We'll continue this talk.