What Does The Bible Say?
30 Minute Discussions Of Bible Subjects
What Does The Bible Say?
What Does the Bible Say About Suicide #2?
Arnie, Fred and Glenn continue the discussion about suicide and what the Bible says about it. We begin by looking at more passages in the Old Testament that relate to one's faith and how that defeats suicide. David is the first faithful individual we look at and he questions why he is cast down and disquieted when he has hope in God. Solomon first discusses the trust he has in God and then asks the question of why would one die before his time? Next Isaiah tells God's people not to be dismayed and they should not be disquieted because He is with them. We look at what Jeremiah recorded that God said to His people while they were in captivity where He reminded them that His thoughts of them were for peace and not evil in order to keep them from being discouraged. God's people need to remember that God always has their best interest at heart. We move to the New Testament and look first at Jesus' emphasis on his disciples being faithful in keeping His words. We note that Jesus reminded His people that they would always experience difficulties in this life, but to maintain their faith in His ability to help them weather the storms of life. We next look at what Paul said about the danger of being conformed to the world, to the way it looks at things, its philosophy. He notes the need for the faithful Christian to transform his thinking and follow more closely the Lord's words. We close this episode out by looking at our relationship with the Lord as the kings He made us and our reign with Him. And finally, a short discussion about our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit and what that means to the faithful Christian. Leading a faithful life serving the Lord defeats any possibility of suicide. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.
This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ, meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty am and five thirty pm. We meet for bible study at nine thirty am on Sunday and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc-i.net or to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com or to Glen Landrum at
Arnie:Good afternoon. This is Arnie Granke with the Woodland scbamaboy2003@yahoo.com. church of Christ, and with me this afternoon is, of course, Fred Gosnell and and Glenn Landrum. Fred's going to participate with us here. Usually he's been our engineer, so to speak. But we've had a nice conversation in preparation for the things we want to talk about. We began in a in some previous sessions, talking about the problem of suicide and passages of Scripture that might relate to that and show that that that's a a wrong choice to make, and we'd like to follow up on on those thoughts and and give you a lot more ammunition to use in persuading yourself and persuading others that may need your help. Which of you gentlemen would like to be
Glenn:Well, I can start it off. One of the things you know, we talked about prior to to getting started here was the the idea of people, the listeners, to to this, this program that the the passages, the scriptures that we read and relation to to the individual reading those. We need to understand that these are applicable to people that are followers of God in this day. Of course, that's so that's being a Christian. And so we would certainly say and encourage you that if you're not a Christian, you should become one. Uh, otherwise, when we're talking about about suicide, whether it's right or wrong, and we have determined that that that is is not it's not right for us to commit suicide. So if one were to commit suicide, and that person is not a Christian, well that's just another one of the things that they're accountable for to God that they haven't already and they've already not taken care of many of the things before. So if you're not a Christian, you need to become one. So we're looking first at Psalms 42 verse five, and these are my passages that are verifying that faith defeats suicide. And by our faith and our belief in God, our belief in Christ, that those are the, are the ways that we overcome, the the desire, I guess you would say, to to commit suicide, even when we're having problems. And we know that we all are going to have problems. So we are told by Christ, we're told by Peter, we're told by James, uh, told by Paul, that we are going to suffer by persecutions. We're going to have problems in this life, and they're going to they're going to be severe at many times. So there may be an opportunity for some people to feel that they have no need to to continue to live. So faith does defeat suicide. So 42 verse five reads, Why art thou cast down? Oh, my soul, and why are thou disquieted in me? Hope thou in God, for I shall yet praise him for the help of his con,countenance. So our hope, our faith in God, helps us in this, this, this area. This reminds me of of a scripture that probably most of us are very familiar with, at least we're familiar with the account, or the story in Genesis four, verse six. That's, that's the account of Cain and Abel. And when Cain had murdered his brother, brother, Abel, God said to him, and God, or God asked, said, Oh, why are you angry? Why has you has your countenance fallen? I think that's kind of the same wordage that we just read. Why has your countenance fallen? So God was asking, Cain, why do you have a problem with what I'm telling you, I'm telling you that. That you were wrong, and I'm pronouncing a, a sentence upon you. And so why are you? Why are you upset about that? So this is kind of same wordage, and we're all familiar with this.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah. And of course, one of the problems is that, of course, when a person decides that they just don't want to continue to live. One of the things that they are not doing is they are not trusting in God. And Solomon said in Proverbs three, verse five and six. Notice, notice what he says here. He says, Trust in the Lord with all your heart and and I lost my place, And lean not to thine own understanding in all thy ways, acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths. So, you know, one that is faithful to the Lord, He's going to be faithful to Him and DO what He says. He's going to trust in Him. And one of the you know, there was a time when Jesus was tested by the by the Sadducees and the Pharisees, and they, they gave him a situation. There was this woman that was married to seven or eight men, and then they asked him, well, in the resurrection, who's whose husband will she be? And what Jesus said is, he said, Now, God is not the God of the dead. God is the God of the living. So you know, to take oneself out of life is not to trust in God in the first place and to make a decision based on your own understanding, as as you know, the passage says, lean, not unto thine own understanding. We need to learn what God has to say. He's He's the God of the living, and he wants us all to live. Wants us all to be faithful. Of course, if we die faithful, then you know, death is just a temporary time. We're going to be resurrected, as Jesus and all the apostles have said. So, be faithful to the Lord. Faith defeats suicide, defeats one that would want to leave this life early.
Arnie:We're sort of going from the the beginning of the Bible back toward the toward the back cover, and excuse me, the book of Ecclesiastes in Ecclesiastes chapter seven, and I'm looking at verse 16. I'll give you two verses here. Be not righteous over much, neither make thyself over wise. Why shouldest thou destroy thyself? Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish? Why wouldst thou die before thy time? And the point is that you know there, there are several different kinds of death. You actually have a physical, physical death, and the body is no longer able to to function, and it, the organs aren't working and and all of that, this isn't necessarily talking about that. It's talking about death in a spiritual sense, where we breach our relationship with with God and spiritually speaking, we're dead, and most of the world doesn't realize that the majority of human beings sit in in that category. So so we we want to behave ourselves in such a way and stand for principles that God has put in this His Word, in such a way that that we're advocating the things that that God advocates, we don't necessarily have to be overly righteous. We don't necessarily have to try to to outdo everybody else. But what we need do, need to do is identify what God's will is, and then make it our intent, uh, every day of our life to to live according to to what God has said in his word.
Glenn:Now, our next, next passage in Isaiah and Arnie mentioned just a moment ago that these are basically going from front cover to back cover. The previous one was in Ecclesiastes. So next one is Isaiah. Our following passage will also be in Isaiah, but this is Isaiah, 41 verse 10. And I'm also going to skip over to verse 13 as well. I think it's applicable. For verse 10 says, Fear, fear not thou. For I am with thee. Be not dismayed. I am thy God, and I will strengthen thee. Yea, I will help thee, yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. Then verse 13 says, For the Lord thy God, will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not. I will help thee. This is particularly to the point with the the title of this lesson that we've mentioned, that faith defeats suicide. Faith defeats any problem that we have or any issue that we're facing. Our faith in God helps us through that, and we can we can believe and know that God and His Son Jesus are with us, helping us through. We we can understand that when we follow His will, when we try to do what he wants us to do, he will be with us. Now, the opposite is true, too, and we particularly see that in these books, the prophets, Isaiah, being one. God was, He was very clear for anyone who was not following his will, things were not necessarily going to go very well for them, but if they were and they were following his will and doing what he wanted, he would take care of them.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah, and of course, you know, sometimes people get in a situation that things that just seems like it it's impossible for me to get out of this, or sometimes it's their own fault, and but then sometimes it's because of what others are doing, and then they they forget that there's a lot of time ahead. You know, I'm in my 20s or 30s, and here these things are bad, and I just can't stand it anymore, so I'm going to, you know, just chuck everything and leave his life. Well, you don't know what's coming in the first place. But, but again, Isaiah, a little bit further in Isaiah, 55, voice problem there, Isaiah 55, six through 11. Notice, notice what the Lord says here through Isaiah, he says, Seek you the Lord while He may be found. Call you upon him while he is near. Of course, that's you know. Seek the Lord. Then he says, Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon. So, so there, there's the individual that all of his difficulties are are because of what he has done. So what does he need to do to solve that problem? Well, he doesn't need to kill himself. What he needs to do is he needs to change his behavior and his thoughts. He needs to leave those wicked things he's doing, and then things will get get better for him. Guys hung up on drugs. What do you need to do? Well, you need to quit it somehow, whatever. And then things get better for you. But then he goes on. He says, For my thoughts, are not your thoughts, neither are your ways, my ways, saith the LORD, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. So then again, you know people, people depend on everything that they think, and then they nothing on what God has to say, or or they've forgotten what God said, and they they make decisions that are not good for them, contrary to what God wants. So God says, My thoughts are not your thoughts. So you need to listen to what I have to say. So then he says in verse 10, For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth and maketh it forth, bring forth and bud, give seed to the sower and bread to the eater. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth. It shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing wherein I sent it. So God's provided all of these words for us from beginning to end of the Bible, and his guidance is for our good. And so we need to make sure that we remember that regardless of what we might go through, and if we make mistakes, we do things wrong and things get bad for us. And make a little self evaluation, figure out, well, where was it I went wrong, and then what's God say about it? Well, you need to change your behavior. Listen to what God says, and then you'll be better off.
Arnie:You know, I want to go back, if we can, just for for a moment here to Isaiah, 41 and verse 10, and the statement that that God makes in the middle of this where he said, Fear, thou not. Be not dismayed. We're in the middle between those he said, for I am with thee and, and that doesn't mean that God's God's going to be there and he's going to clear all the obstructions out of the way, remove all the problems and and make life easy for us.That's not the point that he's making. What he is making is you're not by yourself, yet you're not alone. You're not the only one involved in in this struggle. And and if you do what you ought to do, what the Bible would teach you to do, and and seek to to please the Lord, then the result is going to be that you become a stronger person in character, and probably in your faith and love of of the Lord as as well. Just wanted to add that in there, if you don't mind me going back.
Fred Gosnell:Sounds good, Arnie.
Glenn:Oh, that's, that's, that's absolutely great. We sang a song last night about Jesus holding our hands. And that's exactly what we want. We we know that as we walk through this pilgrim land, we walk through the problems we can we can hope for and expect that God will be with us, holding our hand, helping us to make it through those things.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah, and of course, let's, let's move on to the New Testament here. And Jesus says something to us here in John five in in verse, verse 24 now Now notice, notice what he says. He says, Verily, verily, I say to you, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death to life. And of course, he's, he's, there's, there's more than physical life that that, that Jesus has provided to us. And he says that those that Hear my words, he says that and believe on Him that sent me. Of course, we believe on God, the Father is the one that sent him. So it is He that has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but he has passed from death unto life. So So one of the things that that people forget is that, of course, Jesus came here to save us. He said, I came to seek and save that which was lost. And and that the things that we go through in this life, as bad as it might be, as Glenn pointed out the song, he's holding our hand, if we want to hold his and and and he will help us get through the things of this life. But then, you know, the rest of the story is that physical death in this life is just a temporary thing, and it's what we ultimately go through. But the Old Testament passage says, Well, why would you bring that on earlier than than the way it was supposed to turn out for you? You know, you know, Fred's 82 when Fred was younger, Fred was doing a lot of things that Fred shouldn't have done, and had I continued doing those things, smoking and drinking, then I would have probably been dead like my best friend. He died at 64 a smoker and a drinker. And had I continued like him, I would long, long since left this earth. But since I obeyed the Lord, I quit all those things. And so those who want to listen to what Jesus says and follow Him, they will live the best lives they can in spite of what they might go through, and just do the best you can trust in the Lord, obey his will, and you will have a good life in spite of everything you might have to go through.
Arnie:Sometimes I like to pick a word here and there and talk about it and and this is one of those, one of those cases there in verse 24 that you read Fred, He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life. When, when we were boys, probably every father has said something at some point to his son or daughter. Did you hear me? You know, he gives some instruction and and the child fails to follow it. And maybe there'll be some other ramifications to that, but it may start with him giving you a sort of a warning there. Did you hear me? Well, he's not talking about audibly noting what he said. He's talking about really applying what he what he said. And the problem is that it angered him was that we just refused, we ignored him, rather than, rather than listen to him. And the same is true with regard to to God. Reading the Bible's good, but it's better if you read and absorb the Bible. Don't just read it and say, Oh, I I did 24 chapters today. You know, I. Don't know if anybody could do that, but, but, but it's not. It's not a contest to see how many times you can get it read from cover to cover during the course of the year. The question is, how do we apply it? Are we putting it to use in in becoming more God-like in our behavior and more obedient to His will.
Glenn:Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that. And that word that you mentioned in the King James that uses the word and puts an eth on the end of that word here, heareth and then it also mentions believeth. You know we we learn. And we know that in the King James, when you when you see that suffix eth as in heareth, or believeth, that is a continuing process, that we continue hearing, that we continue believing. It's not a one time thing. So we're going to go next to John 16. Verse 33 says, These things have I spoken unto you that in me you might have peaces, peace. In the world, you have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world. One of the things I mentioned that in the beginning I of this lesson is the thing about us having tribulation. We are indeed going to have difficulties in those life. Jesus spoke about this in the the Sermon on the Mount in that that section we call the Beatitudes, the last part of that in the Beatitudes, verses 10 through 12, I believe it is talks about the problems that we may have and that we need to actually be thankful that we have those problems. It gives us an opportunity to exercise our our faith. But in this passage we just just read, we know that we can have peace by believing and following Christ, because being in the world, we're going to have problems, we're going to have tribulation. But says, Be a big good cheer. I have overcome the world through Christ. We have already overcome those problems, and we can be saved.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah. And of course, he says that I have overcome the world. And of course, what he's talking about there, he's overcome the things of the world. The world has a certain philosophy that they go by. And Paul in in the Roman letter in Romans, chapter 12, verse two, he says there, he says, Be not conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God. So so we are constantly by the philosophy of the world. We are constantly under pressure to go by what the world says and what the people in the world say, what their philosophy is. And of course, we're talking about faith that defeats suicide. So we are to transform our thinking by the renewing of our mind. So our thinking needs to be on what God says rather than what the world says. You know what the world says is that in a lot of I think it's Oklahoma. If you are in really difficult straights, we will help you end your life. We will help you commit suicide. Oklahoma, I think, has that law. And Holland, a lot of the countries will do that. They'll just, you know, if you want to end it all, the state will help you do that. Well, that's what the world says, but that's not what God says. You know, we're, we are going to have trouble in this life, as as the passage that Glenn read just said, but that's not the end of life or anything. Jesus overcame the world. He he provided us with words that we can go by our faith, that we can live faithfully to him and regardless of what we go through. And at some point he said in Revelation, 2, 10, Be thou faith unto death, and I'll give you a crown of mine. So our our faith has to be continuous, and believeth. We have to believe him and continue to be faithful and and things will work out fine with us. We're not going to avoid problems, because we all have them in this life.
Arnie:I'm looking, Fred in the Colo, I'm sorry, not Colossian in in the Corinthian first Corinthian letter in chapter three, beginning in verse 16, Know you not that you are the temple of God, that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you, If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Well, of of course, that doesn't mean that God is, is restricted to, to being in, inside everybody's body, inside everybody's spirit. That's not at all the point that that he's making there. During the Old Testament, when, when Israelites would worship, they would go to the temple. Before that they they would go to the portable temple, if you want to consider it that way. And when they would enter that they considered God's presence being being there, not that they could see God or not that they could just guess whether where he was, Is he, is he in the inern room there, or is he inside the box that's in the inner room, or whatever. But, but rather, it's it's thinking about, He has made the place a holy place. Look at it as as kind of a, kind of a, an illustration. If, if you're driving down the road and you happen to see a police car on the side of the road, and he's got radar in the car. What is it that you always do? It doesn't matter. You don't know whether the cop has the has the radar turned on or not. You're just assuming that it is. So you slow down and you abide by the by the rules of the road and all of that till you get by, and then when you get out of sight, you probably step on the gas again. But the point is, you're, you're you recognize the presence of that officer. In the same way that that if we recognize the presence of God in the temple, in our body, within our spirit, we we have a tendency to try to accept that and and do the best that we that we can. And that's the whole point that that this and other passages similar to it is making so that we're not, we're not going to be, you know, God's not going to actually be inside us, but his presence is there. He's watching us. He knows what we're doing. He knows whether we're reverent, and if those aren't the the characteristics, he's aware of that as well.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah. And of course, when he talks about us as as as being a temple and God dwelling in us, not literally. It's a it's a spiritual relationship. And in First Corinthians, four, eight and nine, there the the relationship is more than than what a lot of people think. In First Corinthians, 4, 8 and 9, Now, Paul to the brethren, cart says, Now ye are full. Now you are rich. You have reigned as kings without us. And I would to God you did reign that we also might reign with you. And what we need to understand that another passage says that He has made us priests and kings, and we reign with the Lord as kings. We are, we are his temple, spiritually speaking. We are reigning spiritually speaking with our King, the Lord. So, so that being the case, Why, why would we want to end this relationship that we have with God, the spiritual relationship? Why would we, why would we think about ending that? Of course, the the answer is, there's no good reason to do that. We would be following our own thoughts and not those of the Lord.
Glenn:Yeah, and I think this will be the last passage that that we're able to read, and this in First Corinthians, 6, 19, and 20. This is very similar to one of the other passages we read. What, know you not your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price. Therefore, glorify
Arnie:Well, we are out of time, and we appreciate you listening. God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. And we've talked about this, and we need to understand that, that our bodies is the temple of the Holy Ghost. It's the God, the Holy Ghost being part of the godhead, our bodies are the temple of God, the temple of the Holy Ghost. It, it's, it's a special thing for I, for us to understand our body is something important, and it tells us that we are bought with a price. It doesn't belong to us, actually, it belongs to God, and so we don't have the the right to do something with what God owns. We hope the things that we've talked about are things that you will consider. If you disagree with anything that we have to say. We'd be glad to hear from you and and hear what your objections are. Maybe we can have a conversation about those, those things. We hope that you'll tune us in again next Lord's day and in until then, we hope that you will recognize your body as the temple of the Holy Spirit, the temple of God. Look, look forward to being with you again. Have a good week.