What Does the Bible Say About Suicide #3?

Arnie, Fred and Glenn continue their discussion of suicide and how one's faith defeats it. We begin by noting that Paul had reminded the brethren at Corinth how God had delivered him and those who were with him from a certain death they were threatened with in Asia, illustrating God's faithfulness and ability to do so.  Paul continued to discuss with them that we are all subject to death and we don't like that because we desire the eternal body promised us in heaven. He also challenges them to examine themselves whether they are in the faith, which is absolutely important. We note that Paul reminded the Ephesian Christians of when God identified the group that would be His chosen ones and why this is a fact every saint should know. We then look at what Paul told the Philippian brethren what Christ was able to do for them. A fact that they needed to remember as they went through the difficulties of a faithful life. The Colossian Christians were Gentiles and Paul reminded them of their spiritual condition before they obeyed the Lord so they would remember the life that they now enjoyed in Him. We move on to what James had to say about the various temptations we are subject to in this life and the kind of attitude we ought to have toward them. We close out this episode by noting that John says that the Lord knows that we, as Christians still sin from time to time and reassures us that if we confess those sins to Him, He will forgive us. There is never a situation so bad that we can't do this. So, one's faith in the Lord will defeat any thoughts of suicide. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.

Transcript

Fred Gosnell: 0:00

This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ, meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty am and five thirty pm. We meet for bible study at nine thirty am on Sunday and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc-i.net or to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com or to Glenn Landrum at scbamaboy2003@yahoo.com.

Arnie: 0:42

Good afternoon. This is Arnie Granke with the Woodland church of Christ. And with me this afternoon is Fred Gosnell, who's a member of the church at Woodland and also Glenn Landrum. And he's also a pretty learned gentleman that's a member of the of the church here. And what does the Bible say examines Bible subjects of of all sorts. Whether we're talking about how to become a Christian, how to how to serve God, how to worship God. There are so many things that we can talk about that I don't suppose that we'll that we'll ever run out of topics that that we ought to be discussing with with one another. A couple weeks ago, we started talking about the subject of of suicide. We looked at some individuals in the Bible who had committed suicide, both in the Old Testament, as well as the one in in the New Testament. And then we began to to look at at some other aspects of that. How can we how can we defeat Suicide? Suicide is is a sin, and we don't have the right to destroy the body that God gave us to use in in His service. So so suicide's, suicide's an issue, and sometimes people have problems in this life that they they fear that maybe there's no other escape from it, except for for suicide and and unfortunately, they take that that approach. So we we looked at some Old Testament passages here in in some of our past discussions, as well as some some New Testament passages. And whichever of you gentlemen would like to like to go first, let's, let's continue that, that thought that we've been on with regard to avoiding suicide and and and trying to do the best we can in serving our Lord.

Glenn: 3:05

Arnie, think that's a good intro to our lesson tonight. Uh, last week we ended on on a passage in First Corinthians 6, 19, and 20, and verse number 19 says, What? Know you not that your body is the temple, the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which we, ye have of God, and you are not your own. So we understand that that our bodies as Christians, is the temple of God, the temple of the Holy Ghost, and that it doesn't belong to us. It belongs to God. So we do not have the right to do anything against our body or to take it away. It doesn't belong to us to start with. So we're going to pick up today with Second Corinthians, one, verse 10, and I'm going to start with the verse eight. There is that begins the sentence. And so I'll read eight through 11, For we would not brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure above strength in so much that we were despaired even of life. But we have the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in ourselves but in God which raise the dead, who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us. You also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons, thanks may be given by many on our behalf. So we see here that we have the sentence of death, and that's both a physical and of and a spiritual death that that we can refer to with that. We are going to suffer by both, we will, as humans, we will die unless we're here when, when Christ comes again and we'll meet him, but most of us are going to die. That's a sentence that we've we've been given. All of us will. But he says he has delivered us from so great a death, both a spiritual death and a physical death, he's delivered us from us, from that. He doth deliver us in whom we trust. And that's Christ that we trust, in God also we trust. So that's that's one of the ways that we can we can be sure we can defeat the desire to commit suicide.

Fred Gosnell: 5:47

But you know Paul, Paul continues there later on in chapter five, of you know, discussing this, this problem that, as you alluded to, we all face death, that you know everybody's going to die, and one thing might prevent that is, if the Lord returns, some will still be alive. But in Second Corinthians, chapter five, and beginning to really we need to begin the chapter. He says, We know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, and he's talking about our physical body, We have a building of God an house, not made with hands eternal the heavens. For in this we groan earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house, which is from heaven. And of course, when God created us, He created us to be with Him forever. We were not created to die. The only thing that occurred was we sinned against God and were cast out of the garden and subject to physical death. So then in verse three, says, So if so being that being clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle, in this physical body, do groan being burdened, not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon that mortality might be swallowed up of life. So the problem is our mortality, our physical death, we all suffer. So then it is now he that hath wrought us for the self, same thing is God, he brought us to be alive,Who hath also given us the the earnest of the Spirit, or the promise of the Spirit. Now he that wrought us for the same self, same thing is God, who also has given us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore, we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. He's in heaven. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. We want to be with him. We were designed and created to be that way, Wherefore we labor that whether present or absent, we may be accepted o\f him. So we're need to live faithfully for him. So then he says, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that everyone may receive the things done in his body according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad. So our our desire is to be forever with the Lord alive. But as long as we're in this body, we are subject to death, and we don't like that. That's, that's, that's not a good thing death, death is, death is the enemy. So, so whether we're in the body or not in the body, whether we're absent from the body or not, then we're going to do whatever we can to continue to be faithful to Him and to be accepted to him, because we're going to give account for the things that we do in this body, whether it's good or whether it's bad.

Arnie: 8:33

Yeah,our, our purpose in life originally was to glorify God, and man failed to do that and and got himself into a situation that resulted in it, not just the the individual himself, but all of all of mankind in in the same strait of of facing, the problem of death. Well, you know, we need to make sure that we are children of God. Living a good life is is one thing, but living a good life as an individual who certainly isn't devoted to God. His life is maybe devoted to his own personal pleasures or or whatever it is, whatever endeavor he wants to to follow doesn't necessarily satisfy what what these passages is talking about. For example, Second Corinthians, chapter 13 and verse verse five, Paul writes. He said, Examine yourselves whether you be in the faith. Well, we can determine whether we are or not. Now, some, sometimes people, people have a higher uh, idea as as to their status, in in God's view, and and perhaps think that that they're doing some things that they are not which they ought to be, ought to be doing, but, but we should be able to know whether or not we're fulfilling the purpose that God really intended for for us. So, so Examine yourself, whether you be in the faith. Prove yourself. What he's saying when he says, Prove yourself, he's he's test yourself, check yourself out from every from every angle and every dimension and and determine whether what you're doing is what God intended for you to do. Are you pleasing Him? Or are you are are you insulting him? Know you not your own selves. How that Jesus Christ is in you. And we'll pause here, Except you be reprobates. And how many people who who think that they're just okay with God, that everything's fine, you know, God, God ought to be pleased with me. I'm doing this and that, and and and so forth, and all of that stuff that God will be happy about. Well maybe he will, and maybe he won't. We need to understand what the Bible says God intends for us to do, and not to make up our own checklist of whether whether or not we're fulfilling God's will. We may be, in fact, reprobates. We may be, in fact, people who are displeasing unto unto God there. So, so we need several verbs. Make a checklist of these, examine yourself, prove or test yourself, know what your what your situation is, and then use that and use the the Word of God as your guide. And if you meet those qualifications, all will be well, but if you fall short on any item, there's some some repair work that needs to be done to our behavior.

Glenn: 12:32

You know, lot of people, when you when are asked, when they're asked, Well, are you? Are you? Are you going to heaven? Uh, many people will say, Well, I hope so.

Arnie: 12:45

Yeah.

Glenn: 12:47

But we this, this idea of examining ourselves, we can actually know that we are living for God and that that we will be in heaven with Him. First, John three, verse 24 says, He that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he and he in him. And hereby we know that we he abideth in us by the Spirit which he has given us.Very simple, if we're doing the things that God wants us to do, and refraining from doing those things he does not want us to do, we can know that we are we're in him, and he's in us. So that's examining ourselves, being aware of what we do and what we fail to do, and taking care of those things when, when that situation occurs. So our next, next passage is Ephesians one, four and five, and I'll start with verse three and go through verse six. Uh, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in Christ. According as he has, hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the Beloved. So he's he's blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places. And here's the key, in Christ. So if we are in Christ, and we are living for Christ, then we have these spiritual blessings. And verse four tells and according as he has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. We can know that we are living for Christ. And we are, we're going to reign with him in the end. So how do we do that? We obey the gospel and we become children of God,

Fred Gosnell: 15:12

And we have the next verse in verse seven. So how do we know? Well, in whom Christ, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace. And of course, he requires us to obey Him. And why should we obey Him? Well, He died for us. Well, what makes it possible for us to know that we are forgiven of our sins? Well, he shed his blood for us, and the Bible tells us what we need to do. And of course, then the passage I have is Philippians 4, 13, and this is the passage that you hear a lot of times. And Paul says, there, I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me. And of course, the previous verse, well, he's he's writing to the Philippians. And the Philippians were a local church that were providing him with his his assistance, money that he needed. And he says, in verse 11, he says, Not that I speak in respect of want, for I have learned in whatsoever state I am, wherewith to be content. He says, I know how to be abased. I know how to abound in everywhere. In all things, I'm instructed both to be full, to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me. He's not talking about a football game or a basketball game here. He's talking about his service to the Lord, and in this case, they were providing him with his support for the work he did for the Lord. So so whether things are going well or things are not going well, of course, Paul was subject to persecution. We were talking earlier, Glenn mentioned that there was a time when Paul was stoned to death, and he was where they thought he was dead, and he came back to life. So he continued to serve the Lord in spite of that. Glenn's got a thought.

Glenn: 17:15

He was stoned, they took him out of the city like he like he was dead, and left him there, and then they found him and he was revived. Yes, is really a great story.

Fred Gosnell: 17:26

So, Paul, Paul was serving the Lord, and it didn't matter what situation he was in, he was going to continue to serve the Lord in spite of what happened to him. He didn't, he didn't decide to say, well, things are so hard for me, I think I'll just kill myself. No, he didn't do that. And the faithful Christian will rely upon his faith in the Lord that the Lord is going to take care of us in spite of what we go through, and we need to continue to be faithful unto him unto death, as he says in Revelation two verse 10.

Arnie: 17:57

Can I back us up a step or two?

Glenn: 18:00

Go ahead.

Arnie: 18:01

Because I I'm still thinking about something that that each of you addressed there and and just back in the Ephesian letter in Ephesians, chapter one, and and in in verse four, I am impressed by the fact that it says, According as he has hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in in love. That's verse, verse four. You know, how long ago was the foundation of the world. I don't know how many 1000s of of years. We may find that out at some other date, but we don't, we don't know what that is and and it's, it just impresses me that even before the Lord said, Let there be light, that would be, I guess, what you'd call the foundation of the world. Even before he said, Let let there be a light, he already knew who we were and what he wanted to accomplish with us, what he wanted us to do, and what he wanted us to to become, and, and, and he was specific about it. He wanted us to be holy. He wanted us to be without blame, in him, in love. And you know, that was our whole purpose when he, when he put the first man here on the on the planet, and immediately that that plan had to be, had to be revived because of because of sin, entering into the into the world. So it just thinking that. God knew who Arnie Granke was, or Fred Gosnell or Glenn Glenn Landrum was going to be, even before he said, Let there be light. I'm thinking, you know, we've got big responsibility to try to accomplish the thing that God has put us here on this planet to do, excuse me for taking us back a step or two.

Glenn: 20:30

Oh, that's fine. And you have a thought. Now, one of the things I would would warn against with that I thought Arnie is not teaching that that God had predestined us before, before time, that each and that us individually would be saved.

Arnie: 20:51

No, not at all.

Glenn: 20:52

So what has been predestined is the plan that we have to make a decision to obey. So in that sense, God does, but he did know us, and he knew I knew exactly who we are, were. But it's not to say that he picked individuals before time that would be saved.

Fred Gosnell: 21:17

Well the US there is the group.

Glenn: 21:20

I agree.

Fred Gosnell: 21:21

There's, there's a group of people who, when you obey the Lord, then, then you are added to the group. The group being the church and the spiritual body of Christ. So, so he, he, he adds those who obey Him to this spiritual body. And that's the US there that when, when he addresses the Ephesians, he's addressing Christians.

Glenn: 21:40

Yeah. And 2, 44 is a really great example of this. And in the days these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed. And the kingdom are not not left to other people, but it shall break into pieces and consume all the kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. God had planned, way before the church was ever established, that there would be a church, and we, I think we've talked before, a few weeks ago, that the kingdom is the church and is the body of Christ. So I think maybe we can get get back to where we we were. And hopefully we've made some sense with with all we've mentioned about all this, and hopefully it is helped you. But we're talking about how faith defeats suicide, and our faith in God, and our understanding that that God owns our bodies, and that that we owe it to him to take care of those things. So we we last looked at Ephesians, one, four and five, and then Philippians, 4, 13, so we're at Colossians, one, one through six, Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God and Timo Timotheus, our brother to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colossae. Grace be unto you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you since we heard of your faith in Christ, Jesus, Christ, and of the love which you have for all the saints, for hope which is laid up for you in Heaven, whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, which is come unto you as it is in all the world, and bringeth forth fruit as it does also in you since the day you heard it and knew the grace of God in truth. And you also learned of Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is for you a faithful minister, minister of Christ who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit. Now I read a couple of extra verses because that was part of the paragraph that was that was being read. But we this is just a continuation of what we've been mentioning that we have, like in verse five, says, for the hope which is laid up for you in Heaven, whereof you heard before in the word of truth of the gospel. So we have that hope of heaven. We have that assurance of heaven if we're in Christ, and that is how we can defeat a desire to to commit to suicide or to take our lives, because God is the one that owns our bodies, and he is the one that should be taking it.

Arnie: 24:42

Exactly.

Fred Gosnell: 24:43

And he goes on to the Colossians. Course, he's writing to Colossians. They were, they were Gentiles. And he tells them in Chapter Chapter 2, 13, and 14, he tells them what happened here with them. He says, Now you being dead in your sins. And the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses and blotting out the hand writing of ordinances which was against us, which was contrary to us, took it out of the way and nailed it to his cross. So so they were Gentiles. They didn't have benefit to the law of Moses. Well, it didn't matter to them anymore, because the law was nailed to the cross. And so here they were. They were, obeyed the gospel. He talks about what they did about their baptism in the couple of verses before that, but then they were forgiven all trespasses. So, so why would an individual that has been forgiven their sins and is living for for the Lord. Why would they want to end all of that? It doesn't make any sense. And of course, as as was mentioned earlier, that is basically a sin. It's a sin to kill yourself. When the Lord paid for your body, he He shed His blood for it, and he owns me. And so it's not up to me to do anything to my body. It's up to me to serve Him till I die.

Arnie: 26:09

Well, I think there may be a temptation there to to think, Well, God, let us get away with this and get away with that. So it doesn't really matter. Won't be a problem. He's going to let us get away with whatever it is that we want to do and that that's certainly not the truth at all. But I'm, I'm looking at the book of of James, in in James chapter chapter one. Let me. Let me get back there real quick. James, chapter one. And beginning in in verse two. This is sort of a lengthy reading here, but let's, let's go through it. James, a servant of God and the of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes, which are scattered abroad, Greeting. Of course, he's speaking to, speaking to people of Israel. They, they made up the 12 tribes. He said, My brethren counted all joy when you fall into divers temptations, knowing this that the trying of your faith worketh patience. And and what I gotta say about this is, is falling into the temptations is, is not the the bad part, being overcome with the temptation is, is the part that's that's a problem there. If, if we face a situation that may be tempted and tempting, and yet we realize this is not according to God's will, and we refuse to become involved in that, then, then that's exactly the purpose that that we should make of that of that temptation is, is avoiding it. It would make us stronger as a matter of fact, and and, please, please the Lord with that. So we ought not to think that just because we're tempted, God's not paying attention to us. Oh, he's going to let me get in trouble here. That's not at all, not at all the purpose. He expects us to fulfill our responsibility, even if there's something tempting about the situation. and then then down in verse four, But let patience have her perfect work that you may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. And one of the things that we ought to ought to recognize is, is that God didn't just make part of a man here, part of a woman here, he made a complete individual. You had a purpose. I had a purpose that God intended for for us, and let's take advantage of that. And let's, let's do the work be, be perfect and entire, and the thing that God gave us. Well, Fred's pointing to the, Fred's pointing to the clock here and and telling us that is that we're about out of time. So I'm going to, I'm going to pass it on to Glenn. Let him finish it up.

Glenn: 29:20

Well, going to finish it up here. I have First John one, verse nine, but I think we need to read starting with verse six. If we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is our key to taking care of any of the problems that we have with with sin. We need to walk with Christ as Christ walked. Christ was sinless, and he's saying we need to walk in that same way. We need to walk in the light as He is in the light. And if we sin, if we have a problem, which we will, our our solution to that is to confess those sins, and He will be faithful and just to forgive us our sins. I think we could probably end this on on that note. Uh, but just be aware. Read Matthew five verses, 10 through through 12, and you'll understand that all of us are going to have tremendous problems. We are all going to be persecuted. We're all going to have problems that give give us trouble, and there's going to be reasons from time to time. We may think that if this is just too much for me and I can't go on, but he says, Rejoice that you have those problems, be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in Heaven.

Arnie: 31:06

Conquering it is the whole purpose.

Glenn: 31:08

Absolutely.

Arnie: 31:10

Well, we appreciate you listening in with us. We hope to be with you again next Lord's Day. By all means, have a godly week and and make it your purpose to do the the will of God as he's outlined it for us in in the Bible. We'll look forward to being with you and talking about it some more next week.