What Does the Bible Say About the Roman Catholic Church #2?

We continue our discussion of the Roman Catholic Church denomination by looking at it's primary beliefs and doctrines. We begin by noting that the Catholic Church believes and teaches that the Pope, or universal bishop,  is infallible and has authority over the entire church. We note that the New Testament doesn't say nor teach this. In the New Testament each local congregation had a plurality of elders or bishops. We noted several passages that said that. The Roman Catholic Church requires that all priests, bishops and other clergy must be unmarried. We note that Peter and Philip were both married. Peter being a Bishop and Philip a deacon. We discuss the Catholic Mass and note that in a Mass, they teach that the literal body of Christ is being sacrificed over and over at each Mass. Again, we find the Hebrew writer stating that Jesus was offered only once. We discuss the College of Cardinals that the Catholic Church established in 1059, clearly long after the New Testament was written in which there is no reference to this organization nor the members of it, Cardinals and Archbishops. The Catholic church requires its members to confess their sins to a Catholic priest which is contrary to the New Testament pattern, which we note by looking at several passages. The Second Council of Nicaea introduced the veneration of images and relics. Again we look at some passages that teach against such a practice. The Roman Catholic Church teaches there is such a place as Purgatory where disobedient individuals are sent temporarily after death where they can have their sins purged and effectively given a second chance after death to go to Heaven. We close this episode out with a discussion of the various erroneous  doctrines on baptism the Catholic Church holds. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.

Transcript

Fred Gosnell: 0:00

This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty am and five thirty pm We meet for Bible study at nine thirty am on Sunday and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc i.net or to Arnie Granke at aganke 440718@yahoo.com or to Glenn Landrum at scbamaboy2003@yahoo.com

Arnie: 0:42

Good afternoon. This is what does the Bible say, brought to you by the church of Christ at Woodland at 3370 Broad Street Extension. We are about two miles east of Shaw Air Force Base main gate. We would certainly welcome you to come and worship with us, but today, of course, we want to talk to you about some Bible things, and we hope you'll pull your Bible out, so you can read along with us with some of the passages that we'll be using, and, and maybe take some notes of some of the things that we tell you about. I'm Arnie Granke. Fred Gosnell is here, and Glenn Landrum is with us. We hope that we'll have Eric back with us again next Lord's Day, but he's not. He's not with us today. Glenn, you want to pick it up?

Glenn: 1:42

We started last week a look at the Catholic Church. We're looking at denominations, and we're looking specifically at different denominations and how they compare with what the Bible says about the church. In looking at the Catholic Church last week, we talked about the origin of the Catholic Church. We talked about the organization of the Catholic Church, and we've talked about the basic authority of the Roman Catholic Church. So now we're down to the primary beliefs and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. Some identifying character characteristics of the Catholic Church, and an allegedly infallible pope in Rome. One bishop, that's the Pope, over the entire Church. The New Testament had had a plurality of bishops or elders in every congregation. We'll look at Acts 20 verses 17 and 18, and also Acts 14, 23 and Philippians one one. So I'm going to read Acts 14, 23 because that's the first one I'm coming to. So, when they had appointed elders in every church and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, to whom they had believed. One of the things you need to realize and notice that anytime you're reading in the New Testament, and you're reading about elders, bishops, presbyters, or any of those terms, when it's speaking of them, it's always plural, and such it is here also. So, when they had appointed elders in every church. So this was the apostles, they were going about, and they have, they appointed elders in, in the churches, in the towns where they, they were preaching the gospel. Then Acts 20, verses 17, and also verses 28. Seventeen says, From Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. This is Paul, and he's going around, and he's going to speak to the elders that are in Ephesus of the church in Ephesus. Then verse 28 Therefore, take heed to yourself and to all the flock among whom the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. This overseers is a term for elder as well to shepherd the church of God. He purchased with his own blood. And notice once again that it's, it's a plural term. So, and we have to, we have to pay attention to that when we're, when we're reading the Bible, it makes a difference in whether we're talking about singular, whether we're talking about plural, whether we're talking about what gender we're talking about, so these things are specific, and it mentions that.. So, in Philippians one one says Paul and Timothy, bond servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops, another term for elders and deacons. Once again, the term is is plural. So I'm gonna pass on to Fred now.

Fred Gosnell: 5:22

Well, the next thing we note is that they have unmarried priests and bishops, that's a requirement, but of course this is this has varied through the centuries. There's been sometimes it changed a little bit, of course, that's one of the things that we note about denominational churches that they change their doctrine and things that they follow sometimes. So and the Catholic dictionary says that, In the Western church marriage is prohibited to all clergy of the rank of sub deacon and upwards. Of course, we know that the Apostle Peter was married in Matthew, in Matthew eight, verse 14. Now notice says, When Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid iand sick of a fever. So Catholic Church claims Peter as the first pope, but Peter was married. And then in Mark one verse 30, Mark one verse 30, there we are told the passage says that, but Simon's wife, wife's mother, Simon Peter, lay sick with a fever, and anon they tell him of her. Then again in Luke four verse 38 So it's not a mystery that Peter was married. S``o according to the rules of the Catholic Church, then Peter could not be a pope. So then Luke four verse 38 there we are told again, He arose out of the synagogue and entered into Simon's house, and Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever, and they besought him for her. Then when we go to Acts 21, 8 and 9 when we will find out that Philip the evangelist was also married. Of course, according to the Catholic Church's requirements, sub- deacons and upwards could not be married. So Acts 21, 8 and 9 says that, The next day we that were of Paul's company departed and came into Caesarea. We entered into the house of Philip the Evangelist, which was one of the seven abode with him. The same man had four daughters, virgins which did prophesy. So again, the requirements of the Catholic Church are contrary to what the Bible teaches, and we can't, the Lord doesn't allow that for those who would follow him.

Glenn: 8:07

I'm going to make a point before you move on to Arnie, and I think it's a really good point that we need to make as well, when we're talking about the bishops or elders being married, being married is actually a requirement for for bishops or elders. First Timothy three verses one through seven is one of the passages that give the qualification of elders, and in verse two it says A bishop, then must be blameless, the husband of one wife. Well, this is a requirement that that a bishop, an elder has to be married, is not, is not a thing that that that is up to them whether they're married or not. They have to be married, according to the New Testament. Arnie.

Arnie: 9:07

I'm glad that you, that you mentioned that. The next thing that we want to look at here is what's called Mass, and of course, math is Mass is a term that's used for a worship service where they would get together and you perhaps have the Lord's supper or sing songs, pray and and so forth. And and it's it's a service in which the literal body of Christ is sacrificed over and over again, day after day, that's what's done in the Catholic Church, certainly not in, in all the churches, and not in the church that you read about in the, in the New Testament. The New Testament teaches that Christ was, was offered, but he was only offered one time on on the cross, and, and in Hebrews chapter, chapter nine, and and verse 28 the Hebrew writer says, So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. It just seems that so far everything that we've looked at here since we started just a few moments ago has the Bible saying one thing, and the Catholic Church saying something different.

Glenn: 10:49

Now, the next, and I'm going to take two of these. The next is the College of Cardinals, College of Cardinals, that it would be the, the collection, I guess you would say, of cardinals, the group of people who are appointed as cardinals. As it is now known, that was formed in 1059 AD, that's almost 1100 years after Christ formed,built his church, so it's something that was added some 1059 years after Christ had died, or 1020 something years after. There's no reference whatsoever in the New Testament to cardinals or archbishops, as used by the Catholic Church. We find elders and we find deacons and we find saints, but we don't find archbishops and we don't find cardinals, so that's something that's been added by the Catholic Church.

Fred Gosnell: 12:01

I have cardinals in my backyard.

Glenn: 12:03

Oh, I do tell you, lots of them, and they have, they have a kind of funny little hat on too.

Fred Gosnell: 12:09

And they're red.

Glenn: 12:10

Well, hey, I guess it's kind of good sometimes. I have a, have a light heart and a makeup, make a joke or two, and have a laugh, and you know, and all. But really, I, it's, it's serious when we're talking about the church that Jesus built, and how He established it, and what the New Testament, which is His words, say about how we establish the church. The next point is auricular confession, the practice of confessing to a priest and being interrogated by the priest concerning one's sins. The New Testament teaches that Christians are to confess their faults to one another and to forgive each other. James 5, 16 says, Confess your trespasses to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. The effective fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. And then First John one verse nine, and this, this is in my passage that we've, we've covered a lot of times here. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This doesn't say anything about confessing to a priest. This, this is confessing to Jesus directly. And then Acts 19 verses 18 and 19, And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all, and they counted up the value of them, and it totaled 50,000 pieces of silver. So you see what the confession of saints of Christians was done to one another and, and to Jesus, not, not to a, to a priest. Now we could kind of stretch that, and say that if we confess to to another Christian, we are confessing to a priest, because we are called priests as Christians. So, in a sense, confessing to a priest, if you confess to another Christian, you're confessing to a priest of God, but this is a different situation. These priests in the Catholic Church are someone that's in a position of authority, and they're over the congregations to which they are appointed. So none of the above scriptures authorized a secret question and answer session with a priest. Closely linked to this is the doctrine of penance, a sacrament sacrament of the new law instituted by Christ, in which, by which absolution of a priest acting as a judge, sins committed after baptism are forgiven to a person who confesses them with sorrow and purpose of amendment. So it's the priest who is making the judgment on the person who confesses the sin, is not Christ, and Christ is the only one that is able to judge that. In the New Testament, no man stands between the sinner and Christ, Christ is the advocate between us and God,

Fred Gosnell: 15:51

And just let's take a minute to read First Corinthians, chapter four, and verse six. Now notice Paul writes there to the Corinthians and says, These things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself to Apollos, for us not to seek above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. And then in First Corinthians 14 verse 37 Paul there says, The things that are right into you are the commandments of the Lord. So we, you know, we talked about cardinals, and we talked about other positions there. When you read in your, when you read your New Testament, you will not find the word cardinal in there. And, and the first test you ought to have is anything regarding religion, any organization that you're a member of, regarding religion, where they teach and go by things that you cannot find in the Bible, that means they have added it to it, and it's simply not allowed, according to Paul, by the Holy Spirit, and according to Jesus. So then one of the other things that we find in the Catholic Church, not only the Catholic Church, a lot of places is they the veneration of images and relics. So they had a council in Nicaea, second council in 787 and they they introduced this doctrine, and what this says is the images, especially of Christ, of the Virgin Mother of God, and of other saints are to be had and kept in churches and do honor and reverence to be paid to them, and you can find that in the Catechism of Christian Doctrine, which is a Catholic writing. So in the New Testament we are not to do that in First, I mean First John, here get to it, First John, chapter five, verse 21 there John writes, and again, remember what what he has to say. First John 5, 20 says, Little children, keep yourselves from from idols. Of course, and idols is anything that you worship, any material thing, and Acts 17 verse 29 There notice what is said. It says, For as much then, this is Paul, As we are the offspring of God. He says we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold or silver or stone graven by art and man's device. So there's, there's, there's nothing made by man that he devises to make that we ought to venerate or we ought to look up to. We're limited to worship God and follow what He has to say, and not make these idols to follow and to look up to.

Arnie: 19:01

There's a practice of invoking saints, praying to saints, and so forth, that the Catholic Church practices, and they pray to, of course, to dead saints. It was never authorized in the New Testament. I would, I would like for somebody to show me if they think that it is what passage they're looking at, because I've never found it, and, and, and I suspect that the problem is that, that whatever passage is used, if there is one, it's not being read correctly, or with a correct understanding of what the Bible is, is trying to teach. Living saints were asked to pray for the, the living, and that's already been been admitted. Acts chapter eight is a passage that deals with that, beginning in verse 22 Acts chapter eight says that, Repent, therefore, of this thy wickedness. I'm going to back up for just a little bit. Where Peter is, is with a church, and he said unto them, Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter, for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Notice, it's God that is judging this, and so he urges them, Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee, for I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness and and in the gall bitterness and in the bond of of iniquity. So in that case there was a man by the name of Simon, it's not Simon Peter, this was another individual who who had sinned, and Simon answered and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me that none of these things which you have spoken come upon me. So, so he was, he was convinced that he needed to correct the situation there and have a living individual speak to the Lord in, in prayer, and we, and we read verses 22 through 24 and added a couple more on top of that. James chapter five, and and verse 16 is another, another passage I think that that deals with this, where we pray as living saints, we pray for the living, and as James is writing, he says, Confess thy faults one to another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Notice, he's not praying for them just when there is something that he, that he wants, or that there's something that he, some situation where he's ill, or or anything of that sort. It's when he's gone into sin, that that he needs the prayers of those, and he also needs penitence on his, on his own, and returning to what the Bible teaches.

Glenn: 22:54

Yeah, one of the problems with that issue that that Arnie has was discussed is the idea of praying to the dead saints. The Catholic Church, as well as a number of other denominations, consider a saint as being a special person, one that has been voted as being a special person, one that was very faithful and did did a lot of good things, and that person therefore became a saint and was appointed a saint. Saints, according to the New Testament, is simply another term for Christians. So that's one of the big problems with that is that it's they're using the wrong terms to start with, and we can't, we can't use our own terms for the Bible that do not correspond with what the Bible is teaching. The next point we want to talk about is the doctrine of purgatory. This is a doctrine which offers a second chance after death, a purgatory or cleansing after death, the place and the state in which souls suffer for a while and are purged after death before they go to heaven on account of their sins, if this doctrine has any basis, then Luke 16, the account of the rich man and Lazarus, must be rejected. And I'll read that Luke 16, beginning in verse 19. Now pay attention to this, and pay attention to these two people that are being talked about, the rich man and Lazarus. There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day, but there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who is laid in his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs, which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And began being in torments in Hades he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted, and you are tormented, and besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here and to you cannot, nor can those there pass to us. Then he said, I beg you, therefore, Father, that you would send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment. Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them. And he said to them, No, Father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent, but he said to them, if they do not hear Moses in the province, neither, neither will they be persuaded, though one

rise from the dead. Notice this: 26:50

two people, Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man, while living, he was indeed rich and lived sumptuously, it said. Lazarus, he was so poor that he was, he was a beggar, he and the dogs licked his sores, and he begged for crumbs off the rich man's table. When they both died, Lazarus went to this place called Abraham's bosom, in it's says it's in Hades. This is that place that everyone goes to when they die to Hades. But there are two parts of it: one is torments where the rich man went, and the other is Abraham's bosom. Well, I think you can figure out who goes to which one. It's just like in Matthew, where Jesus talked about those, those people, and this is in chapter seven, being that narrow road and that wide road. Well, the ones on the narrow road, they were going to go and end up in this place called Abraham's bosom, awaiting judgment, and the ones on a wide road, they were going to end up in torments in Hades, and they were also awaiting judgment, so we don't, we don't have a situation to where there's purgatory, and we can, we can pray to those, those people in purgatory, and give anyone a second chance. You see this in the last part of this passage, you don't get a second chance, your chance is while you're here alive on earth, not afterwards. If we don't take care of it now, our time has passed, and we don't get a second chance.

Fred Gosnell: 28:51

Well, a little bit of time left. Let's take a look at the erroneous doctrines on baptism that they have, and these quotes are from the Catholic dictionary. They say in the Western Church, baptism may only be lawfully conferred by infusion, and there should be three distinct pouring. So their baptism is by pouring. Of course we know that Romans six says that we are buried with Him by baptism, it's an immersion in water, completely immersed. Then they say baptism of children of non-Catholics may be lawfully performed, even if the parents object, provided the child is in danger of death. Of course, in the New Testament, we never find a child that's baptized. Then they say baptism may be administered in the womb. Not sure, how that would be done, but again, there's no passage that says that. Then they say an aborted fetus must also be baptized. Of course. Again, no babies, and especially no dead babies, have ever been baptized according to the New Testament. And Arnie, why don't you close us out.?

Arnie: 29:58

I think we.. I think we've just about run out of time there, and I'm glad that you mentioned that, Fred. We hope that what we've talked about today are things that you will take seriously. Look them up in your Bible, and don't put confidence in us that we told you what the Bible says. Look for yourself. We have told you what the Bible says, but do look for yourself, and then don't just take what you know and deposit it somewhere, and ignore it after that. Do what the Bible teaches, and then you'll have hope of eternal life after a while. We hope that that'll be the case for you. We expect to be back again, Lord willing, next Lord's Day. We hope that you'll listen in. Have a good week, and may God be with you.