What Does the Bible Say About the Presbyterian and Episcopal Churches

In this episode we finish our discussion of the Presbyterian Church and begin discussing the Episcopalian Church. Glenn begins by noting that the Presbyterian Church requires its members to make a confession of the Apostles Creed. He notes that there is no such Creed specified in the word of God. The required confession in the New Testament is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and it is His creed that we follow. We next discuss the errors the Presbyterian Church believes and teaches about baptism and the fact that they baptize infants. We again look at bible baptism and note that only believers were immersed. We complete our study of the Presbyterian Church by noting that the name P:resbyterian is not included in the New Testament as a name the Lord has given for His Church. 

We next begin our study of the Episcopal Church denomination. We note that it is known in America as the Protestant Episcopal Church. In other countries it is known as the Church of England or the Anglican Church. We look at it's origin in the 1500's and the various developments that resulted in its establishment. We move on talk about the Episcopal Church in America and how it developed here. We begin to talk about the nature of the Episcopal Church and its teachings. First we note that even though they broke away  from the Roman Catholic Church, much of the organization and many of the teachings of the Anglican Church and in turn the Episcopal Church are very similar, if not identical to the Roman Catholic Church. We note that there is a clergy- laity distinction in the Episcopal Church that is not found in the New Testament. We talk about what the word of God says about the members of the Lord's Church. We close out this episode by looking at what the Episcopal Church teaches about baptism. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussions. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.

Transcript

Fred Gosnell: 0:02

This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty am and five thirty pm We meet for Bible study at nine thirty am on Sunday and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com or to Glenn Landrum at scbamaboy2003@yahoo.com or to Eric McClam at ericmcclam50@outlook.com or to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc-i.net.

Arnie: 0:56

Good afternoon. This is What Does the Bible Say, brought to you by the church of Christ at Woodland, here in Sumter, South Carolina. If you happen to be living in this area, or just moving in, perhaps with the military, or wherever, we would certainly invite you to come visit with us, ask whatever questions you want to ask about Bible things, and we will give you a, a Bible answer. And in the unlikely event that you'll come up with a question that we have difficulty with, we will research it for you and find the the answer. Tonight, or this afternoon, we have Fred Gosnell and Glenn Landrum and myself together, and we had been speaking last Lord's Day afternoon about the Presbyterian Church. So, Glenn, let me pass this to you and let you take it from there.

Glenn: 2:03

Okay. Well, the first part I'm going to do is review just a little bit on what we last spoke about last week, and we had talked about the Presbyterians require a confession of the Apostles' Creed for all those that may be potential members to be a member of the Presbyterian Church. Well, the Apostles Creed is a, is a statement of faith, so to speak. It has 21 lines, most of the lines only only have three or four words in the line, and for the most part, most of these things that are mentioned in the Apostles' Creed are good statements. There are two statements in in the Apostles Creed that absolutely are not true, and one is talking about Christ, and says he descended into hell. Christ did not descend into hell, he descended to the Hades. The other is where it mentions I believe in the Holy Catholic Church. I'm sure that the Presbyterians are referring to a universal church rather than the Holy Catholic Church, but still, it's the church is not called a Catholic church, it's not called a universal church, it's called the church, and simply as simple as that. The problem with requiring a possible, an apostle's creed, or someone to cite some creed in order to to be saved is that it's just not in the Bible. Is there's no record of any requirement for Christians or those who would be Christians to cite any creed, such as the Apostles' Creed. The creed of Christianity is Jesus Christ. We are to confess our faith in Him. And one passage I'll read is Acts 8, 36 to 39 where the eunuch, when he had been approached by Philip, it ended up with these statements. Now, as they went down the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized. Then Philip said, 'If you believe with all your heart, you may. And he answered and said, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So he commanded the chariot to stand still, and both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he, that's Philip, baptized him as the eunuch. So you see, that was the confession, and that was a very good confession that the eunuch made. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That's the confession that we need to make when we believe and repent and make our confession in order to be baptized. Well, the Presbyterians also have some errors on teaching baptism. Presbyterians believe that sprinkling, pouring, or immersion are all proper modes of baptism. The Westminster Assembly voted to retain sprinkling and to drop dipping or immersion by a vote 25 to 24, and that was you can find it in the History of Religions, Volume six, pages 68 through 675, Well, the problem with that is that that's that's not what baptism is. We've, we've defined baptism for you before. Baptism is the Greek word for it is baptizo, and it means to immerse or to plunge, which is to put completely under underwater. Sprinkling and pouring have nothing to do, and do not represent baptism in a scriptural sense. The New Testament only recognizes immersion. I just mentioned that, that said in Acts 2, 38 We've read that a number of times before. Acts 2, 38 Peter had just finished preaching the first gospel sermon on the day of Pentecost in Jerusalem, where there were people from all nations in Jerusalem for the day of Pentecost, or the celebration of Pentecost. And they had asked once, though they were convicted, they said, 'Now, when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, 'Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said to them, Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Well, this didn't specifically say that baptism is immersion, but that is the definition of baptism. It's immersed. If we look back at John the Baptist, and we know how he baptized, he baptized in the Jordan River, immersing people, even immersed Jesus Christ in baptism. Also the Presbyterians practice infant baptism. In the New Testament, only believers are baptized, Mark 16, 16 another passage we've read a number of times that mentions baptism, Mark 16, 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned. So someone has to believe, believe in what, believe in God, believe in Christ, make that confession that they believe in Christ Jesus as being the Son of God, and then salvation can come to them, but they have to make this decision to believe. Without the belief, there is, there is no salvation, so one has to believe in order to be baptized. Infants cannot believe and cannot make a decision. Infants have to learn everything that they know, and we know that it's many years before for people learn the things that they need to know in life.

Arnie: 9:29

Okay, so, so that the problem of infant baptism certainly is, is something that you ought to consider, that the Bible doesn't give us any examples of that, or even dictate that that should be, should be done, so you might want to rethink that when you're, when you're considering what to do with regard to your child teaching the Bible and you'll be doing him the best favor that you, that you possibly can. There, there are some things that we want to think about with regard to the name of the church, and there are, of course, all these denominations. There in Jesus' day, there was no Lutheran church, no, no Presbyterian, no Catholic. There wasn't even a Baptist church. Just because the word baptism is used doesn't mean that that that was the name of a of a church. And as we're thinking about Presbyterian, the Presbyterian faith, the name Presbyterian isn't authorized by by scripture, you won't find that anywhere in the in in the Bible. It's not a proper designation of of God's people at all, Christians were Christians, were disciples. You don't have to be one of the 12 to be to be a disciple, but it, that simply says we're a student of of of the Bible, and we're a student of of Christ's will. And we certainly want to be careful not to name the church after any form of government. We don't want to make it Episcopal, we don't want to make it Presbyterian. Just use the term that's in the Bible, and you know, it's pretty simple. You can't get any simpler than the church. It was the Lord's church, and obeying His will and doing what the Bible teaches is the best answer. If somebody else has printed up some kind of a, you know, paperback document or whatever it might offer a little bit of information for you, but be very careful, that's not something that necessarily puts you into a relationship with with Christ.

Fred Gosnell: 12:14

Well, the course you just mentioned that we need to use the names for the church that are found in the Bible, in the New Testament, and by the way, there's quite a few different names given. And there is a word that is similar to Presbyterian, it's only half of Presbyterian, and that's Presbyter, and of course, that's where they get that term from. Of course, Presbyter in the original Greek is is simply an older individual, and it refers to an elder in the local church. And and then, of course, the Bible doesn't authorize anyone to name the church after, as you mentioned, the form of government. And John wrote in Second John, verse nine. Now notice what John said here. He said, Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. The doctrine there, or the teaching of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, or in the teaching of Christ, he had both the Father and the Son. And, of course, we discussed the fact that the book of Revelation, the last several verses in that book, tell us not to add to what's been written, nor take away from what's been written. So these various denominations and Presbyterians and everybody else, but they basically they don't follow all of what the Lord says, they add to it. And likely mentioned, like Glenn mentioned in the creed, that the apostles creed, a lot of the things in the creed are very similar, or exactly what the Bible says, but then to require us to confess the creed when in the New Testament we are to confess the Lord as Christ, like the eunuch did, would be an addition.

Glenn: 14:10

Well, Fred mentioned this, the word presbyter, that it refers to an elder in the local church, and that's exactly what it refers to. One of the things we need to consider, as there's a good example in the New Testament about people dividing themselves up and calling themselves under different names, and that's found in First Corinthians one, 6, 10 through 13. And Paul speaking to the Corinthians, and he says, "Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, that pay attention to that, You all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you by brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say that each one of you says, I am of Paul, or I am of Paulus, or I am of Cephas, or I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul. Paul lays out the situation that we see today in the world of what we may call Christianity. Paul lays it out, says there's there's contentions, there's differences among you, and you're calling yourself or you're following different people, you're following the teachings of different people, not following the teaching of Jesus Christ. And that's exactly what we have today, with up to 40,000 denominations. Each one of those denominations teach something different than the other, they teach something different than the Bible, and that's where we're getting with this, is that that we need to simply follow God's word, call the church the church, we can say the church belongs to Christ, and therefore it is the Church of Christ, or it's the Church of God. Those, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, those are not scriptural names, that's saying that we follow someone other than Jesus Christ.

Fred Gosnell: 17:10

Well, that's that basically, completes our study of the Presbyterian Church, and we would invite you to, this is the second discussion listed on our website, and this will be up this Sunday at 2o'clock The next denomination that we're going to talk about is the Episcopal Church, and we'll pass this to let Eric get in on this today.

Eric: 17:43

Okay, I appreciate it. We're going to talk about the Episcopal Church in the introduction of the Episcopal Church, that is, the Protestant Episcopal Church of America, is known in other countries as the Church of England or the Anglican Church. This denomination originated in England during the first half of the 16th century. It was, and still remains, very similar in teaching and practice to the Roman Catholic Church. The orient, the origin of the Episcopal Church, the history background of its origin, in the year 1501 a Spanish princess Catherine of Aragon married Arthur, Prince of Wales. This union was arranged by the Pope, which that was Pope Julius the Second, to strengthen the alliance between Spain and England. Well, Arthur died four months after the wedding, so Spain insists that the widow marry Henry, her husband's successor, as the Prince of Wales. Henry, from 1491 to 1547 was the alt was Arthur's brother, and according to the Catholic doctrine, a union of this kind was sinful. So Pope Julius the Second nevertheless granted his permission, and the marriage took place. When Henry ascended to the throne of England in 1509 as King Henry the Eighth, ruling for 1509 to 1547 After his first reign was harmonious with the Catholic Church, he strongly opposed the doctrine of Luther at this time. So strong, so strong was his opposition of the Lutheranism that the Pope, being pleased with his work, bestowed him the title, the Defender of Faith,

Arnie: 19:54

And the circumstances, of course, always had a lot had a figure in a lot of these beginnings of new denominations, that circumstances arose in this case, which caused him, which this would be Henry, caused him to rebel against the Catholic Church. So as years passed, Henry became preoccupied with the fact that no son had been born to Catherine, thus no male heir to the throne. What are we to do to keep the male heir going, it doesn't seem that anyone thought of the fact that possibly a female may may be an heir to the throne, but they didn't seem to, didn't seem to go in that direction. He believed that God was punishing him, he had, he thought that maybe he had been sinful and had been an immoral relationship, and so forth, according to Catholic doctrine, and that was what was be withholding his male heir. So in 1527 he requested the Pope, which was Clement the Seventh, at that point. He requested the Pope to annul his marriage and allow him to marry Anne Boleyn. And let me, let me just mention that I recall from history classes that that Anne Boleyn was not the prettiest of the women there in in the royal family in in England, and and so that wasn't a popular idea with a lot of people there. The Pope refused to grant him the annulment because Clement the Seventh thought too much of the power of Charles the Fifth. He got that Clement the Seventh thought too much of the power of Charles the Fifth, who was the king of Spain and an uncle of Catherine. Glenn.

Glenn: 22:30

Well, Henry took his case to the English people and government. In 1532 he obtained recognition from the clergy of his place as Supreme Head of the Church of England. He convinced Parliament in 1533 to enact a law which declared that the King of England was the single protector and the only Supreme Lord, as far as that is permitted by the law of Christ, the Supreme Head of the church and of the clergy, and then secretly married Anne Boleyn. He was excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church in 1534. Parliament in the Act of Supremacy in 1534 officially began the Church of England and made the king the head of the Anglican Church. Henry severed the relationship with the Catholic Church in Rome and the Pope. During the reign of Edward the Sixth, son of Henry the Eighth, the Common Prayer Book and the 42 articles of religion were adopted as the creed of the Church of England. You may remember from the last study when we were looking at the Presbyterian Church, we talked about these creeds, and that's exactly what Henry had had set up, or his son Edward had set up in this Common Book of Prayer, and 42 articles of religion, and they adopted the creed of the Church of England.

Fred Gosnell: 24:10

Well, the Episcopal Church in America is known as the Protestant Episcopal Church, and that's the name of the self-governing branch of the Anglican Church in America. So for the first century and a half of its existence in America, it was known as the Church of England and was considered part of the Anglican Church, state religion of England. Of course, as a result of the American

Eric: 25:29

When the nature of the Episcopal Church and, and its teachings, in spite of breaking away from Roman Catholicism, Revolution, it became self-governing, separated from Catholicism, much of the organization, and many of the teachings of the Anglican Church, and in turn to the the Church of England. So in 1783 the name Protestant Episcopal Church, are very similar, if not identical to the Roman Catholic Church. Number one, a clergy laity distinction. Episcopal Church was adopted. 1789 a constitution was adopted The New Testament knows of no distinction, the word of God says that all members of the church comprise a holy priesthood whose duty is to offer spiritual sacrifices, and in Philadelphia, and the Book of Common Prayer of the Anglican you will find that in First Peter, chapter two, verses five and verse nine. We're going to go to there, we can go ahead and read that. First, Peter, chapter two, verse five says, verse five Church was revised for use in America. So the Protestant says, You also, as living stones, are being built up as spiritual houses, a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual Episcopal Church in America, known in other countries as the sacrifices acceptable to God. And verse nine says, But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praise of Him who Church of England or the Anglican Church, adopted this call you out of darkness into His marvelous light. Here again with the Episcopal, they talking about baptism, and it says name at a conference of Episcopal churches in 1783. The baptism administered by effusion or pouring. As we said in the last episode, when we was talking about Presbyterialism, Glenn was mentioning about baptism, and Fred as well as name Protestant was included to distinguish her from the Roman mentioned about baptism. The scriptural mode of baptism is buried in water, which is Acts chapter eight verse 39. We're Catholic Church. The name Episcopal to distinguish her going to go there, and this is the time during Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, Acts chapter eight, verse 39 says, Now, when they came up out of the water, when they came up out of the from the Presbyterians and the Congregationalists, and you can water, the Lord, the Spirit of the Lord, caught Philip away, so the eunuch saw him no more, and he went on his way. But in verse see that in the Handbook of Denominations in the United 38 it says, So he commanded chariot to stand still. Both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized States, page 185. them. And also in Colossians chapter two,

Glenn: 28:13

I've got it, if you want to read it.

Eric: 28:15

Okay, I appreciate it.

Glenn: 28:16

Again, in verse 11, this is Colossians two. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Eric: 28:41

Appreciate that, Glen. The Greek word baptizo, which have been transliterated into baptized, literally means to dip, to immerse, or plunge, thus carrying with an idea of being completely immersed in water.

Arnie: 28:58

Yeah, so, so you have the term of affusion that we used at that that that that represented represented the use of use of water. And now transubstantiation is a second term that we might want to take a look at. But we're a little bit out of, just about out of time here for us to discuss that. So, if you'll hold, if you've made some notes there, hold those notes until next Lord's Day, and we'll try to look at that and discuss that at that particular point. We hope that you will listen to us again next week. If you find anything that we disagree with what the Bible said, by all means, call it to our attention and request that we correct that, and we will certainly be glad to do it. We want to teach the truth and only the truth. Thank you for listening to us, and we wish you a good week.