What Does the Bible Say About the Episcopal Church #3?

We continue this episode on the Episcopal Church by noting that for the most part, Episcopal priests, and thus the Episcopal Church itself, are very liberal in their theology. We note what Bishop James A. Pike, who is now deceased, said about the virgin birth and the garden of Eden, in which he disagrees with the Bible account. We next discuss an Anglican clergyman, Ernest Harrison, and what he said of the divinity of Christ in his book, A Church Without God. We discuss another Episcopal Bishop, John Shelby Spong wrote a book titled, Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism, which disagrees with what the Bible says. We note some Bible passages that show the errors in his teaching. We discuss the female lesbian who was recently installed as the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of East Carolina. We close out the episode by noting a number of Bible passages that show where the Episcopal Church is in error. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussions. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.

Transcript

Fred Gosnell: 0:00

This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty a.m. and five thirty p.m. We meet for Bible study at ninr thirty a.m. on Sunday and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc.net or to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com or to Glenn Landrum at scbamaboy2003@yahoo.com

Arnie: 0:39

Oh, good. Good afternoon. This is what does the Bible say. I'm Arnie Granke with the church of Christ at Woodland in Sumter, South Carolina. Fred Gosnell and Glenn are both with us this afternoon to to talk to you about what the Bible says. And we've been looking at several of the religions that are pretty much in use in the United States here, and we were looking at the Methodist Church and the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church first, and and then in a few minutes we'll take a look at the Methodist Church and just see how how they fit with the Bible. It might surprise you as as we talk about that, you agree with that, Glenn?

Glenn: 1:45

Oh yeah. Well, last week we had continued talking about the the Episcopal Church and it's what it what its nature is. It's how it does differ in doctrine from the Catholic Church. We talked about that. What was continued with tonight, for the most part, the Episcopal priests, thus the Episcopal Church itself, are very liberal in their theology. Ex-Episcal bishop. Bishop of San Francisco James A. Pike, he's dead now, called both the biblical account of the Garden of Eden and that of the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ myths, saying that the account of the Garden of Eden. Yet I do not know a single member of the Anglican community, bishop, presbyter, deacon, or layman who believes this story literally. The account given to us in the Garden of Eden, or the the beginning of time in Genesis, is is not a myth. This is God's word that is telling us about how things happen and what happened in the Garden of Eden. This is God's own word telling us of these things. If we believe the Bible, and we believe that the Bible is God's word, we have to believe that the account of the Garden of Eden recorded in the Bible is indeed the truth, and that is not a myth. And for someone to say that that they do not believe that it's a literal account, there's they're denying God's word. In commenting in his book, A Church Without God, published in 1967, in which he denies the the divinity of Christ, the inspiration of the Bible, and many other fundamentals. Ernest Harrison, an Anglican clergyman from Toronto, Canada, said, "Life has shown us that nobody has the final answers for all time; that we learn from experience and from each other. You know, I've I've read we've read to you many times, Second Peter three, verse one, and that once again is God's word saying this. Second Peter 311 through three says to those who have obtained precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and the Savior Jesus Christ, grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and the Son Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given unto us all things that. To life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue. And then we have to look at Second Timothy 3, 16, and 17, and you've heard us read these passages a number of times. This is all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped, or furnished for every good work. Well, those passages let us know that God's word is exactly that God's word, and that it gives us everything we need, and we do not have the we do not have the right or the authority to deny that any of it is something other than God's word. John Shelby Spong is the Episcopal Bishop of Newark, New Jersey. He gained prominence by presenting his liberal view of the Bible while appearing with Jerry Falwell on the Good Morning America television program in 1989. And I'm going to pass to Fred at this point.

Fred Gosnell: 6:16

Well, since then he's he's written a book entitled "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, of course you can probably figure out where he's going to go with this. So, of it, he said, "I hold the Bible before my readers, seeking boldly to free it from the clutches of mindless literalism. Now, that's in the jacket notes. So, on the jacket notes, the publisher said of this book, in this provocative bestseller, the outspoken and controversial Bishop John Shelby Sprawl reveals how literal interpretations of Scripture have been used to justify slavery, ban textbooks, deny the rights of gays and lesbians, subordinate women, and justify war and revenge. Of course, in his preface-that's Spong's preface to his book, on the letters of the Apostle Paul-he wrote, "So to read Paul accurately, one must read him as he was a limited citizen of his century, whose life was marked by moments of great spiritual power and by moments of an embarrassingly petty humanity. Paul accepted uncritically, for example, the patriarchal value system of his day that regarded men as created in God's image and women as a lesser creation who should be subject to their husbands. And he has Colossians 318 Of course, now let's just stop there a minute. In Genesis 2, 20-seven we're told that God created man in His image, male and female created He them, and so of course the word man there is a general word for man includes, as the text says, male and female, and in in Matthew 19 one through four, one of the passages there, Jesus said,"Have you not read that in the beginning he made them male and female? So they are equally men and women are equal as far as their creation is concerned. So, so then Spang also asserted that it was shameful if women spoke in the church. First Corinthians 14 verse 30-five. Of course, if if we go there, let's just go there and look at that. Of course, First Corinthians 14 is the passage that talks about. It's part of the passages that talk about spiritual gifts. So when you get to let's see, verse 20-six, for instance, Paul writes says, "How is it then, brother? When we come together, every one of you hath a psalm and hath a doctrine and hath a tongue and hath a revelation hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unedify. So he's talking about spiritual gifts. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be two or most by three, and that by course, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter. Let him keep silence in the church. Let him speak to himself and to God. Then he says, "Let the prophets speak two or three. Let the others judge. Any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, and let the first hold his peace. For you may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Then he says, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. So then, in verse 30-four, Paul says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted to them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And we always talk about when you. Read the Bible. You need to consider the context that that passages are in. So Paul is saying that your women now, whose women would this be? Well, the context is the prophets. These are the wives of the prophets. So when their husbands are prophesying, Paul says, "Now don't interrupt them if you have a question, he says in verse 30-five. If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. So, what women is he talking about? Well, the women, the wives of the prophets, and to to take that out of its context and then put it into the 20-first century is to abuse what the Bible says. Of course, if the women cannot speak in church, then the women cannot sing, because singing is speaking to one another. But we are commanded to sing. That's part of our worship. So obviously, this does not apply to all women. It's your women, the wives of the prophets that were prophesying.

Arnie: 11:05

People sure get things tangled up there, don't they, Fred? I'm looking at Colossians chapter three and and beginning and in verse 22 here, where Paul writes and says, "Servants obey, and all things you're masters according to the flesh, not with eye service as men pleasers. In other words, they're not just kind of faking it and make like they did some a job. They should do what they ought to do, and they ought to do it as well as as possible. so he says. But in singleness of heart, fearing God, and whatsoever you do, do it heartily. And it's not hard with a D in there. It's heartily. Do it with all your heart. In other words, as as to the Lord, and not and not unto unto men, knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the the reward of the inheritance, for you serve the Lord Christ, for he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done, and there is no respect of of persons. Now, if if these passages that Fred's read and and the one that I just read, and we've got a couple others as as well. If if these don't really mean what they said, if somebody just kind of wrote that down and and whatever that these are not with divine inspiration, then what's the use of them? Why even have a Bible? Well, you might ask the same thing with regard to some of these pastors and and officials in these denominations. Why why even have a Bible? And if he's honest, he'll say, "Well, I've got one, but I don't read it, or I've decided that it doesn't mean what it says. We need God's word; otherwise, we're just wasting our time. We're just coming in here and probably socializing and and not worshiping, not seeking to to serve the Lord.

Fred Gosnell: 13:42

Let me put something in here. Of course, what Spong was criticizing Paul for was he was criticizing him for being for accepting slavery. But then, if you read, go on the next verse in chapter four of Colossians three, Paul says,"Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal, knowing that you also have a master in heaven. So, what slavery existed in Paul's time? Slavery existed in the old Old Testament times. But if you read your Bible carefully, you will find out that that it was from God's standpoint. The being a slave was accepted, but it was controlled as far as what the master did as well. So, so Paul tells the slave, "This is what you ought to do. Then he tells the master, "This is what you ought to do. And and so, and what Paul says, he says, First

Corinthians 14 verse 30-seven: 14:42

the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. So, so slavery existed, but Paul noted that there were rules that had to be followed based on the being a slave and being a master. Of course, he ends that with. You also have a master in heaven. We are Christians, are actually bond servants. We are slaves. We are willful when we obey the Lord. He's our master. We are His bond servant. So again, He's just Fong is just wanting to criticize what the what Paul says from his own standpoint, which is not to believe what the Bible says.

Glenn: 15:27

Well, continuing after that, as we talked about slavery, Paul, any of this writing is not not specifying that Paul accepted slavery, is what he did is gave instruction through the Holy Spirit of how masters and slaves should behave. We oftentimes are in many different situations, but we still have to conduct ourselves in the manner that God prescribes. If we were a slave, we would need to conduct ourselves as God wants us to conduct ourselves. If we're the master of a person, we would have to conduct ourselves as God would want us to conduct ourselves. This is not a thing of accepting slavery. It's simply telling people how to act in the position that you're in at the time, and that's that's what the scriptures are teaching. It's not teaching that slavery is either good or bad. It's just what it is and how people should should behave and act in those situations. He also talks about homosexuality and this in this dialog about the Episcopal Church and about homosexuality and saying that that homosexuality basically is not what they're saying is it should be accepted as being right or being acceptable. But that's not what what God's Word teaches. It's mentioned in Leviticus 18, 20 Moreover, you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife to defile yourself with her. Now that's adultery. And if you shall not lie with your descendants or pass through the fire with Molech, shall profane it your God, I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with an animal to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is perversion. Do not defile yourself with any of these things, for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting before you. This is simply straightforward. What what God taught, particularly in this case, the Israelites taught them how to behave, and taught them what was right and what was wrong. Romans 18, Romans 1, 18 through 32 we find passage here that talks about homosexuality as well as other things, beginning in verse 18 of Romans one, For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four footed animals, and creeping things. Therefore, God gave them up to uncleanness in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions, for even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one for another, men with men, committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error, which was due, and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind to do things which are not fitting, being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, coventness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness. They are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful. Who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them. This passage gave a lot more. Go ahead, Fred.

Fred Gosnell: 21:20

But well finish your statement.

Glenn: 21:22

This passage gave a lot more than that that idea that we were talking about homosexuality, but it covers a lot. But within that, it does cover homosexuality and all sexual sin. Those things are wrong. God tells us that they're wrong. Tells us that it's against nature. It's not the natural way of for men and women to be men would to be with men, women to be with women. We also saw in Leviticus it talked about bestiality, about people having sexual relations with with animals. Those things, according to God, are wrong.

Fred Gosnell: 22:15

Glenn, when you started out, you said the Episcopal Church, the for the most part, the Episcopal priests, thus the Episcopal Church itself, are very liberal in their theology. Well, yeah, I don't know if our listeners heard this report, but not too long ago, it was reported that the Episcopal Church elected Reverend Sarah Fisher and installed her as bishop of the Episcopal Church diocese in East Carolina. Well, the so-called Reverend Sarah Fisher is an openly lesbian woman who is in a relationship with another lesbian woman, and she was elected on the third ballot by 30-six votes in the clergy order and 70 votes in the lay order, and it just took a simple majority from either of those orders to to to elect her. So, so our listeners heard what Glenn just read from Romans chapter 1, 18 through the end of the chapter there, and in that chapter, Paul wrote based on the words he received from the Holy Spirit about the problem with homosexuality and lesbianism. So, so here we have a denomination that has openly elected a woman to be a bishop. What does it see in the Bible? What does it require a bishop to be? Oh, he has to be a man. He has to be married to a woman, and he has to have faithful children. And those again are Paul's words. So we. just we just want to make sure that our listeners understand that the Bible is what God says, and denominations and and all of them have some some things that are contrary to what the Bible says. All of them have some things that are in accordance with what the Bible says, but the problem is that God does not allow us to pick and choose what we do. He allows us only to follow Him if we're going to worship Him. Worship is in spirit and in truth.

Arnie: 24:37

You know, I think one of the problems in in denominationalism, and of course, that's what we're talking about in each of these discussions that we we've had. We've moved from one denomination to another, and and in many cases there are similarities that you keep seeing cropping up. And one of the problems there is that they decide what what they want to believe, quite frankly, and what they disbelieve, and the Bible really does not have any influence at all on them. If you want to know what God has said, you have to read the Bible. If you just lay the Bible aside and say, "Oh, we'll we'll go. We're going to have a dinner at church today, or we we we have a good social. We got a woman that's married to another woman, and she's going to be speaking. They probably don't tell you the other part of that, but she's going to be speaking. We want to hear what she has to say. Stick with what the Bible says. What men say does not get you to heaven. Only what God has said can get you to heaven.

Glenn: 25:57

Yeah, we're about to to end this discussion on the Episcopal Church, and what we're presenting to you are areas in which, in this case, the Episcopal Church, and we've been talked about other denominations as well. And what we're presenting is where they diff. differ from what the Bible teaches. If they if they followed as they say they are, the Scriptures, they would not allow the things that they do, and they would not make changes to God's word, and do it because they, people think that those things are the right way. We don't have to really think about how the church is set up. We don't really have to think about who is the head of the church, we really don't have to think about the structure of the church. Those things are told to us in God's word. All we have to do is read God's word, understand it, and follow it. And when we do those things, we will we will have the the church of God, the church of Christ. That's the church that that belongs to God, belongs to Christ. You know, we read that passage in Romans oh 1, 18 through 32 and and and and I want to read another passage that that we we've read in our lessons before. Now I'll ask you to read two of them, but the first one I'm going to read is in Galatians one, beginning in verse six. I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel, which is not another, but you you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before. So say I now again: If anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Paul, talking to the Galatians tells, said, If something is presented to you that's different than what you've received, that person should be accursed, saying that that is absolutely wrong. What Paul's referring to in our respect is the Scriptures, the Bible. If we receive and follow something different than the Bible, then we are following something that's wrong. There's another example in First Corinthians 1, 10 through 13. Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, and that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this: that each one of you says, "I am of Paul, "I am of Apollos, or "I am of Cephas, or "I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul? Well, Paul's talking to the Corinthians here because they have started following separate people. Other people have started teaching different things, and one group follows one person, another group follows another person, and then another group follows even another person. There's only one that we need to follow, and that's Christ. His word, the Bible, is what we follow, and if anything is different than that, it's wrong.

Fred Gosnell: 30:42

Well, one passage, and then Arnie's gonna gonna close us out. Second John nine, John writes and says, "Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ hath not God. He that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.

Arnie: 30:57

And and we realize that it's your option either to to stick with what the Bible says and and accept that as God's word, or if you you desire to to not do that and and want to be with the world and and want to you know live a life that's contrary to what things you read about in the Bible-that's your choice, but it's not a good choice, and there's not very much hope for you in eternity if that's what you choose to do. Stick with what the Bible says, and you'll be you'll be all right.