What Does the Bible Say About the Baptist Church #2?

We continue to discuss some doctrines, teachings and views of the Baptist Church. We look into their belief in eternal security or the impossibility of one falling away once he is saved. We talk about a number of passages that refute this teaching. We move on to note that the Lord's church was not established while John the Baptizer was alive. It was on Pentecost, a number of years after John died. We discuss John T. Hiscox's declaration in his Standard Manual For Baptist Churches on pg 62 that salvation is, "solely through faith". We discuss several passages that clearly show this teaching to be wrong. We conclude this episode by noting a number of errors taught and believed by the Baptist Church concerning baptism. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. There is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided for your convenience.

Transcript

Copy

Fred Gosnell: 0:00

This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@yahoo.com, or to Glenn Landrum at scbamaboy2003@yahoo.com, or to Eric McClam at ericmcclam50@outlook.com, or to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc.net.

Arnie: 0:53

Oh, good afternoon. This is what does the Bible say? Brought to you by the church of Christ at Woodland here in Sumter, South Carolina. I've got Eric and Fred and Glenn with me. I'm Arnie Granke, and we hope that you'll get your Bible out and and study passages of Scripture with us. We've been we've been considering some things with regard to several denominational churches, and we had started to speak about the the Baptist Church, and then ran out of time. So, Glenn, would you like to pick up where we left off?

Glenn: 1:37

Sure. Last week, the last thing we're talking about was a doctrine that's within the Baptist Church of a divine election or predestination, which is a Calvinistic doctrine under the Tulip doctrine, and that is a a practice or a doctrine that that is not supported in the scriptures. The next one we want to cover is eternal security. The Baptists would say that we believe that only are real believers as endure to the end. In other words, they're saying that it's those believers who have been selected prior to the beginning of the world that will endure to the end. That God has selected those who would would endure, and they would endure, and no one else would would have the opportunity that such as truly regenerate will utterly fall away, or such as truly regenerate will truly fall away. This is saying that though, as I mentioned, those who have not been selected by God before before time began, then they do not have a chance. They will utterly fall away. Scriptures that teach that these this doctrine is false. Acts five, 8, 13. Simon himself believed and was baptized, and he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. Well, this is showing that Simon he believed, and that gave him the opportunity to to have salvation. He believed, and he followed that belief of baptism, and so he was he was in a in a saved condition. It didn't require that God had selected him prior to. He believed and was baptized. Though once saved, some were later lost, and we'll show that some who who were saved, and we we've mentioned many times how a person is saved, that hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized. Well, some of those who do that and go go through that process will fall away. Hebrews six one through six. Therefore, let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death and of faith in God. Instruction about cleansing rites and laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, eternal judgment, and God permitting, we will do so. It is impossible for those who once have been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and who have fallen away to be brought back to repentance. To their loss, they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. So in this passage, we see that there were people who actually had says tasted of that heavenly gift. They were partaking in in God's grace. They were partaking of those things as a Christian. Yet they changed their ways. They they started a life of sin and fell away from God and fell away or fell out of salvation. One can fall from grace. And another passage we we want to read is Galatians five verse four. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ, who have fallen away from grace. Now, Paul in Galatians, of course, was speaking to Christians. Christians are ones who have obeyed the gospel and have become gotten into a saved condition, But yet, Paul says that those who are who are trying to be justified by the law-that's the old law that's referring to-they've been alienated or moved away from Christ, and they've fallen from grace. The next one is the Apostle Paul knew that he could be lost. First Corinthians , 27. Know, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. I don't think any of us would have any question that Paul was a Christian, that he was in a saved condition, yet Paul realized that he had the opportunity to fall away, to be disqualified for the prize. That prize being heaven, and the last one, one must continue in the word in order to be saved, John 8, 31. To the Jews who had believed him said, If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. This is one of those passages that uses that little two-letter word "if, which is a conditional statement, and it says, "If you hold to my teaching, you're really my disciples. In other words, once a person becomes a Christian, they have to continue to hold to Christ's teachings, and that will keep them in a safe state.

Fred Gosnell: 8:04

Right. And the fact is that the church was established by Jesus. It was not established during the days of John the Baptist, as many Baptists believe and teach. Of course, Jesus said that we're familiar with Matthew 16, 18, where he says, "I'm going to send you, or I I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. And of course, the the rock he was going to build his church upon was the truth that Peter said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Of course, it hadn't been built yet, but Jesus said, "I will build my church. Then the church and the kingdom are the same, just description of the same body in two different ways. But the kingdom came with power on the day of Pentecost, and in Luke 24, 49, Jesus said, "I am going to send you what my Father has promised, but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high. And Jesus said that in Luke 24, 49. Then in Acts chapter one, verse eight, when he was asked by the apostles whether he was going to establish the kingdom in Acts one eight Jesus said, "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witness in in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. Of course, Jesus said that they would be clothed with power from on high in Jerusalem. Then in in Mark chapter nine verse one, he told them. He said to them, "Truly, I tell you, some of you who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God has come with power. And of course, then in Acts Chapter one or chapter two one through four, there we are told when the power came. Acts two one through four says when the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly, a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven, and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them, each of the apostles. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave, as the Spirit enabled them. So Jesus said that some of the apostles would see the kingdom have come with power, and the power came on Pentecost. So therefore, the the unavoidable conclusion is that the kingdom came on Pentecost. Then in or Matthew 14, 10 10 through 12, we're we're told there, verse 10. Well, of course, Matthew 14 nine through 12. We have the king was distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he ordered that her request be granted. And of course, that was when she asked for John's head on a platter, and he had John beheaded in the prison. His head was brought in on a platter and given to the girl who carried it to her mother. John's disciples came and took his body and buried it. Then they went and told Jesus. Of course, John was was dead long before the kingdom came. Then in in Matthew 11 verse 11, there we're told Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist? Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And again, John was dead before the kingdom was established.

Eric: 11:53

Okay, then we're going to talk about about salvation, and they believe that salvation is by faith only. They solely, solely through faith, but the scriptures which refute this teaching, we're gonna look at James chapter two. James chapter two, start verse 17, which says,"In the same way, faith by itself is not accomplished by action that is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good. Even the demons believe that they shudder. You foolish person, do you want to do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteousness for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions was working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did, and the and the scripture was fulfilled that says Abraham believed God, and it was credited him to him as righteousness, and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do, and not by faith alone. As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. And also, we're gonna go to, and they've also believed that faith only saves when it works through love. Let's go to Galatians five six. Galatians five six says,"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision, for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision or uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love, and also faith plus baptism equals salvation. And we're going to read that in Mark 16, 16, where it says, "Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Arnie: 14:20

Well, that's pretty interesting, Eric. Eric, what you what you've shown is is that there's more required than than just faith. If the faith doesn't isn't implemented in deeds in work, then it's it's just invalid. It doesn't. It doesn't make a Christian. A Christian is an individual who who not only believes what the Bible, the Word of God says, but then puts it to use in his in his daily life. One of the errors. There are several errors. That actually that that people make sometimes with regard to baptism. Baptism is is not essential to salvation. Is one of the things that that a document that was written by a gentleman by the name of Hiscox on page 20 of of that said that that baptism is not essential to salvation. Beg your pardon, there, Mister Mister Hiscox. Let's go to James chapter James chapter two, and and I'm looking for that. I thought I had that out here in front of me. Let me flip over here to it real quick in in my Bible. James chapter two and verse 17 is is where we'll where we'll start that. Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. That's that's part of that, and and we can continue on down to verse 24. As a matter of fact, yes, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have works. Show me thy faith without thy works. Well, that's going to be impossible, isn't it? Show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Down in verse 19, thou believest that there is one God. Thou doest well, but but here is the but behind that that that devils believe. Thou believest that there is one God. Thou doest well. The devils also believe and and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar, seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect, and the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God. You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Let me read that one again because that's the point that we're that we're driving at here. It's not a matter of faith only. You see, then how that by works a man is justified, and and not by faith only. Likewise, also was not Rahab the harlot justified By works, and she had she when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way, and so the writer concludes now verse 26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. We need to be very careful when we start talking about what the Bible requires and and what the Bible leaves optional. That can be a dangerous piece of business.

Glenn: 18:59

Well, I think we read that passage in James two times, so hopefully it's very clear to you that faith without works is dead. I believe in James two that passage that we read. What it's really doing is defining what true faith is. That true faith is not just simply saying that I believe. True faith is actually putting things into action, putting your faith into action and doing what you say you believe. Hebrews 11 verse six said, "But without faith, it is impossible to please him. For he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. So you see, it's the ones who diligently seek in order they they're putting action behind their belief, and that's that's what that passage in James two is is is teaching. Well, the the Baptist Church teaches some errors on baptism, which you would think maybe it seems kind of strange because they call themselves Baptist. Well, they teach that baptism is not essential for salvation. They teach one must be baptized in order to enter the Baptist Church. Therefore, making it a church ordinance. They teaches that one must relate an experience. Then the the membership votes whether to receive the new member and allow him to be baptized, something we don't find in the scriptures. The scripture that refute these things that we've just mentioned, and we've already read Mark 16, 16, but we'll read it again. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. We simply read that that passage is very clear. It mentions two things: believing and being baptized in order for someone to be to be saved. Next, we want to go to Acts 2, 38. Acts 238. We've talked about this a number of times. Peter had been preaching that first gospel sermon. Fred was talking about about when the the apostles received the power from on high or received the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues. Well, Peter followed that, preaching the first sermon, first gospel sermon, and he ended up convincing the the ones he was teaching, the ones he was preaching to, that they were guilty and responsible for putting Christ on the cross and sending Christ to his death. And they said in Acts 2, 37, they said, "Men and brethren, what shall we do? In Acts 2, 38, Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, once again, if we look at this passage and and and read it well. There's no escaping what baptism does. He says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins. If baptism results in the forgiveness of sins, then that also results in salvation, because we can't be saved unless our sins are forgiven. Next is Galatians 3, 27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ, have clothed yourself with Christ. This is putting Christ on. In other words, embodying yourself with Christ, having Christ consume you in all that you do and say, and the way you do that is by being baptized, in John three three through five, Jesus said, "Very truly I say, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. How can someone be born when they are old? Nicodemus asked. "Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother's womb to be born, and Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and of the Spirit. Well, pretty clear that that a person needs to be born of water, and that is baptism. Sins are washed away at baptism. Acts 22, 16. Now we all know Saul who became Paul. Paul had been sent to Damascus to meet Ananias, and he was told when he'd by Christ that Ananias would tell him what he needed to do, and in Acts 22, 16, Ananias said to him, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name His name or the name of the Lord. Well, being baptized results in washing away sins, just as we mentioned in Acts 2, 38, it is it results in the forgiveness of sins. So, it's it's very hard to get around that. Romans six three and four. Another passage that that is very important. This passage actually reenacts the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and it reads, "Oh, don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. So in baptism we are buried, and we are raised, and we live a new life, just like Christ. Christ died, and this is telling us that when we when we are baptized, we are dying to, our old self is dying to sin and coming to life as a new life in Christ. So, very hard to get around these passages. First Corinthians 12, 20, bBut in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as He wanted them to be. If they are all one part, they would be one body. As it is, there are many parts, but one body. We we all, when we are baptized, we are added to the church, as I would mention at the end of Acts two, added to the church. We all become members of one body. That one body is the kingdom of God or the kingdom of Christ. It is also the church. So, Fred.

Fred Gosnell: 26:46

Well, now we started this with what Hiscox said. Hiscock said that we are saved solely through faith. So, so let's just kind of look at what Mark said to beginning here. Mark said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. Whosoever does not believe will be condemned. So, so it took baptism in addition to faith or belief in order to be saved. So then, in Acts 2, 38, then it it Peter said,"Well, repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So there, it took repentance and baptism. Wait a minute, where was the faith? Well, those people just asked Peter, "What shall we do now that they crucified the Messiah? So they already believed that they were guilty, and and they believed he was the Messiah, so they want to know what to do. Well, repent, be baptized. So then, in Galatians 3, 27, all of you who are baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Okay, well, if they just had faith and nothing else, where were they? Well, they were outside of Christ in the first place. How did they get into Christ? They were they were baptized into Christ and they were clothed with Him. Then what did Jesus say? Well, Jesus told Nicodemus that you had to be born again, and then He explained to him what that meant. Well, Nicodemus already believed because he was asking Jesus about that, but it took more than faith or belief in every one of these passages. We are shown that. Then it's Acts 22, 16. Paul was a believer. He believed on the road to Damascus when he Jesus spoke to him and he told him to go to Damascus and wait to be told what you must do. So then, what did he have to do? Well, he had to be baptized. Well, why why did he have to be baptized? Wash away his sins. So it took more. It took more than his faith. Then in Romans six, well, we have faith, but how how do we again get into Christ? Well, we're baptized. Well, why are we baptized? We're baptized into his death. Well, why into his death? Well, that's where he shed his blood, and so you can believe all you want, but if you don't obey what is said to repent, to be baptized, then you're not in Christ. Your sins haven't not been washed away by his blood. So, so just to say that all it takes is faith is just simply wrong in so many ways, and it violates all of those passages that between Jesus and the apostles said.

Arnie: 29:33

Yeah, Fred. It seems to me, seems to me that that if you don't do what it says. You go. you don't have faith in the first place. You would have done what the Bible said if you really believed. So I think it's a little nonsensical to say, you know, as long as you believe, you're you're saved. Wait a minute. It requires the faith. It requires repentance from sin. It requires confession of that faith that you have, and it requires that you're baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

Fred Gosnell: 30:21

Well, you you can have only faith and be a Baptist, but you cannot have only faith and be a Christian.

Arnie: 30:28

That's true. That's true. We hope that you'll tune in again next week and listen to us. If you if you disagree with something that we've said, by all means, give us a call, call on the phone, drop us a note, or or whatever. We'll be glad to have a study with you if you'd like to have one personally, and we'll be glad to discuss it some more with you over the air. We hope that you have a good Lord's Day and that all will be well with you. Have a good evening.