When Success Stops Feeling Good: Sacred Pauses and Quiet Rebellion with Lauren Golden

What happens when the life you worked so hard to build… no longer feels aligned?

In this episode, I sit down with Lauren Golden—entrepreneur, writer, confidence coach, and founder of The Free Mama—to talk about the quiet shift so many high-achieving women are experiencing right now.

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After building a seven-figure business and helping thousands of women create more freedom in their lives, Lauren made the unexpected decision to step into what she calls a quieter season—a sacred pause.

Together, we explore:

• the hidden dark side of the self improvement industry and why the "at all costs" mentality can be harmful for women 
• what to do when authenticity starts to feel performative online
• how to find a supportive community (or start) a supportive community online 
• the rise of a quiet rebellion against hustle culture

We also talk about courage, reinvention, loneliness, identity shifts, entrepreneurship, motherhood, and what it looks like to evolve without blowing up your entire life.

This conversation is for the woman who feels the quiet pull toward less noise… and more truth.

Because maybe success isn’t just about what you build.
Maybe it’s also about how fully you choose to live while building it.

📘Resources Mentioned: Your LIfe's Purpose: Uncover What Really Fulfills You

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Courage is a muscle that you strengthen, and it's one that has muscle memory. And so that's when I tell you that I'm sitting in this rebellion inside my body and it's uncomfortable and it's whatever. My sense of courage and sense of self is what allows me to say, calm down, it's gonna be okay. It doesn't feel okay, but I know this, I've done this before. So I can trust that and I can trust myself. So courage comes from being brave even when you're scared.

Ryann 1:37

Hi, friend, welcome back to the show. This is Ryan, your host, and I'm so happy you're here. If you are new here, welcome. This is a space where I support parents and educators in being happier at home, at work, and everywhere in between. And within these virtual walls, we are having honest discussions to support our becoming. And in every stage and phase of the growth journey, I believe we need community and support and being seen and being heard for who we truly are. And that is what my conversation today with Lauren Golden is all about. She's an entrepreneur, an author, and founder of The Free Mama. She built a seven-figure business helping women create freedom and then made the unexpected decision to step away from it. Not because it wasn't working, but something deeper didn't feel aligned for her. This conversation is going to be so impactful for you if you are feeling on the verge of a life or business pivot, if you are questioning what you've built, or if you're just ready to step into a more authentic, more aligned iteration of you. All right, let's get into my conversation with Lauren Golden. Lauren, welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Thanks, Ryan. I'm super excited to dive in and get to know you better because I feel like we're still in this dual stance where you maybe have the upper hand. I feel like you know a little bit more about me than I know about you. So we're gonna, I might throw some stuff back at you today as well. We'll love to see where it goes. I love that.

Ryann 3:33

Love it. So the first place I want to go is from the outside looking in, right? Because you I know a little bit about you, but from the outside looking in, you're in this kind of perhaps one would call it a quiet rebellion for some reason. That's the word choice that came up for me, the word combination, this quiet rebellion that you're going through, or sacred pause, perhaps. And I want you to kind of bring us back to maybe the mountaintop moment when you realized like this ain't it, like time for something quieter, different, slower. What was that moment for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Well, first I'll just say rebellion lands on the inside. I think it feels like a rebellion on the inside because I feel massive amounts of discomfort. And just for anybody listening, what we're kind of diving into is the shutting down of my eight-year, seven-figure business. On the inside, it's wildly uncomfortable, peaceful, right decision, no regrets, but a few months removed from said decision. I feel antsy, but without a clear direction of where to go. So I just sit in that discomfort and marinate in it day after day, open, willing, available, but refusing to force, refusing to push, like refusing to put myself in another box just because it's uncomfortable. So rebellion feels like the inside of my body for sure. And then sort of that sacred, quiet, or however you describe that, that's that's what I feel surrounding me. And not all the time. I am a mother of three children. I wish my home felt like a quiet, peaceful, sacred place, but often it is loud and competitive and physical and all of those things. But uh, the decision felt sacred and peaceful, but the inside does feel like a rebellion. So, how did I get here? It was not one thing, it was definitely a series of things. Um, I would say that those really began probably in 2021. So, for context, um, I've been self-employed for over a decade now. Um, and in 2017, I launched my brand, The Free Mama, and things took off relatively fast. And I say relatively because on the internet we're full of like overnight successes, right? Um, but then we hear people's stories and it was this like 10-year overnight success. Mine was actually not bad. It was, it was a matter of months, but it was the longest months of my life because I had basically like stapled my shoulders up against a wall of like, you have to make this work because I had made all of these investments to make this work with money I did not have. So it was like do or die. It was a tremendous amount of pressure. It was a huge strain on my family and my relationship with my husband at the time. So it was a very long several months. But in the internet world, for something to sort of take off in a matter of months is actually very fast for it to work. And I so I found success quickly. I think I was very wise during that time. I was very thoughtful and strategic, sometimes on purpose. Sometimes I learned later. It just was kind of in an innate skill that I had. And I didn't realize I was doing something really smart. But around 2021, everything kind of shifted. And obviously, this is a post-COVID conversation. If we're talking 2021, in 2020, everybody became my ideal client as someone who was teaching moms how to build something from home. 2020 really blew up. 2021 started to get quieter. Um, but around that time, I had some external things happening. I got to speak on stage, 5,000 people live at an event, and it was like this huge honor. I was on the cover of a magazine. I had all of these things happening, but it was the same time that the inside of me was starting to question certain things in the industry that I was a part of, to question the tactics of some of my peers and how that felt with me from sort of a ethical moral standpoint of like, does that really feel good? Um it was around the time where I looked around and realized I had climbed pretty high up a mountain, but did I even want to be hiking? There was just a lot of kind of, you know, things were going great. And yet there was something that was unsettling about it. And one particular event was I joined a mastermind. And this was like, this is a great segue, Ryan, because I know we're gonna talk about community. It's kind of my jam. This was the cool kids' table. This mastermind was Lauren Golden of middle school, who was actually Lauren Gillenborg. I was not married yet. Lauren Gillenborg of middle school, who felt like such a loser sometimes and just wanted people to like her and was willing to change herself to fit in and was so desperate for other people's approval and to be liked. This was her moment. And I got invited to be in this. It wasn't just like I gave them tens of thousands of dollars. They asked me. And so there was like a very delicate ego situation happening. So, of course, I was a yes. I gave them all my money, right? And I go to this first event for this mastermind feeling like now I've made it. Like this is, these are my people. And I realized I didn't want anything to do with these people. Like, and it happened very fast, Ryan. It was like I realized that some of them were completely different than who they personified online. I realized that they were selling freedom, but they were working 80-hour weeks and never seeing their kids. I was hearing about people's marriages falling apart, people not seeing their children ever, all of these different things. And at the same time, here's this new strategy that I'm doing where I'm working 80 hours a week, but I'm making a million dollars like every time I launch. And it's that was that was the first event that was kind of the beginning of the end. Or, you know, it's not the end. I mean the in-between, but the end of that chapter. That was where I was like, I can't unsee this.

Ryann 9:30

Whoa. So you're sitting there, you're seeing things that are feeling out of integrity. And you, being someone who lives with integrity, from what I know about you, was like, this is not a match. I can't pretend to be the I this is like the pretenders club, and I'm not into it. I've been in rooms where where it's almost, this is a little bit dramatic, but that's me. Like, it's almost dangerous to question the leader on stage. Well, sure. Yeah. And like I remember questioning somebody, a coach, and I got feedback later on in private of kind of my words, not theirs. How dare you question me in a public form? And I thought, uh, this is really interesting. As somebody who's very curious and really wants to learn, and still says the sentence, like, can I ask you a stupid question when I'm trying to put my guard down and tell the person, like, beginner's mind, I really don't know anything about this. I really want to learn. And I thought, huh, there's something off here. And so to me, we're a little bit talking about the same thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

A little bit. You know, what's so interesting about that story, Ryan, is it makes me think about, you know, we're often told, or I was often told by coaches or other people in business. And in fact, there was an entire speaker on this topic at this same event that I got to speak to that is affiliated with the mastermind that I joined. And it was about how you don't know better. Like if you haven't done something yet, you don't know better. And of course, there's truth to that saying. If you haven't, you know, if I've never built a house, so I'm not gonna assume that I know how to do it better than someone who builds houses for a living, right? And like most things these days, we've lost the nuance of like, just because you've done something doesn't mean inherently you know better. It also, and this is something I've always been very clear about in my coaching, it doesn't mean that it's the only way to do it. And so there are a lot, there's a lot of arrogance and there's a lot of fragile egos, probably in business in general, but certainly in the online space. I've found, and so it wasn't necessarily your example that I felt in that room so much as a whatever it takes mentality. Whatever it takes. I will be successful, whatever it takes. And with all of my being, I could not buy into that belief. I still can't. I hear something all the time. It is our, and this is again, nuance. There's a time and a place for it. A lot of women don't love sales. Just I've worked with thousands of women. A lot of women don't love sales. So we have to come up with ways to overcome that because as business owners or freelancers, you are selling something. If you're dating, you're selling something. There's so many ways we can talk about it and change the relationship. But something I heard all the time is it's your moral obligation to sell something. And I still hear that and I laugh. I literally chuckle. I'm like, is that what people tell themselves at that whatever it takes mentality? Whatever it takes, because it's my moral obligation to get Ryan to buy the thing I'm selling. And and and I just could never get on board with that. And maybe I'm the odd man out, but I just refuse to think that if Ryan doesn't buy from me, that your life is garbage. There might be someone better that's selling something similar, right? Like there might be an alignment issue. Again, I think it's a fragile ego thing, but that was what I was seeing was at all costs. And what happened from that experience, and there were personal things going on in my life at the time too. So again, it was a sequence of events. We had a kiddo that really struggled with some mental health things during that time, and it's all overlapping. So I'm probably more emotional, more guarded, not feeling supported by this group that I just pumped all of this money into. But I'm starting to just kind of realize I can't participate in this group anymore, but I've already spent this money. But I still now, years later, look back at it as one of the best investments I ever made. And the reason for that is because my values got so roots deep during that time in ways that I had never really pondered before because they hadn't been challenged like that before. And so I walked away. This now is going into like early 2022. I walked away going, I know exactly who I am. I know exactly what I am and am not willing to do. I'm not willing to ruin my marriage for my business. I'm not willing to compromise my relationship with my kids for my business. I'm not willing to get to a point where I can't even look myself in the mirror because I don't know who I am anymore for my business. And those were the things that I saw happening in that room that I just couldn't do.

Ryann 15:24

That's so interesting. So I look back on my old journals when I'm starting, you know, my business in 2014, 2015, 2016, like all these first iterations as I'm becoming a mom too. And one of the things I wrote over and over again is I want to pick my kids up from school. You know, kids get out from school like two or three o'clock, and if people are working jobs until five or six, you know, you can't pick up your kids. And so I want to pick up my kids from school. I want to pick up my kids from school. And a few years back, I'm like on the way to pick up my kids from school, or I wish I could just work a little longer. I wish I could get in a few more hours. And I'm like, wait a minute. You asked. So why am I begrudgingly driving to go get my kids from school when this was my North Star at some point? So it's interesting to feel into these iterations that we have and how we lose track of why we even do something in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Absolutely. And and I think a lot of this is because we kind of we allow ourselves to like broaden our vision and into seeing other people. I just, this is kind of a silly tidbit, but I just watched the replay of the iHeart Music Awards or whatever they're called. And Taylor Swift got an award, unsurprisingly. And she gave a little speech, and I am very roughly paraphrasing, but she was talking about how when she was a young teen, she had the privilege of honing her craft privately. And she would come home from school and she'd practice writing her songs and practice her guitar, but she was alone. And she talked about how today, and and that she wishes that anybody with a dream creates that relationship with the thing that they love, with honing their craft. And the problem is today we do everything for approval. We're putting everything on the internet. And she makes a comment again, paraphrasing like those things you do with yourself, with your craft, those things are gonna internalize and materialize. But the things we put on the line, the internet will try to kill. And I think that just kind of speaks to what you're talking about because I felt that where like I just, and I still feel this calling sometimes. I gotta take my apps off my phone regular. I'm like, they gotta go, and then I'll need it for something. So I put it back. But I'm like, we we stop thinking about why we started or or what was important to us or what we value because we get so caught up in how does it stack up to everybody else. And something I've heard, and I'm not exaggerating, thousands of women tell me over the last 10 years is that they feel like they're behind or it doesn't feel like it's happening fast enough. And I've said this the latter. I said, I feel that right now in my discomfort, in my, what'd you call it? My rebellion. Rebellion, my rebellion, my rebellion, right? I'm like, it's not happening fast enough. But because I've collected the life experience, I know I just I have to settle myself every day or most days, right? Most days it's like just be patient, be patient, do your thing, you know. But I've learned that the hard way, you know, that sometimes you just like you said, you got to keep it sacred and you gotta quit worrying about everybody else and how fast it needs to be. Um, but it's very challenging, especially when you're watching, we'll call it the wrong people, not your people, not your tribe people, your community people, but just all the people.

Ryann 18:40

Yeah. And I love how you said essentially what I heard you say is that you kind of have to bump yourself up against these situations to know who you're not, to know who you don't want to be, to know where your line is, where your boundary is. I love that. So I took a marketing class recently for my podcast. And one of the first things she said in this class was like, Imagine you're walking up to a lunchroom and like there's like the really loud tables, and then there's like the quiet table in the corner. Let's go to the quiet table and see what's going on there. And for some reason, your community, your online presence right now, your substack is the quiet table. And I'm like, Yep. I didn't even have to. It was like, how did you find me? I'm like, I don't even know, but I landed there, like I was down the rabbit hole, landed there and was like, hi, can I sit here, please? And everybody was like, Yes, you can. Here, welcome to the quiet table. Nobody's shouting or screaming or selling anything or up on a pedestal or spouting off beliefs or, you know, arguing like, you know, we're seeing on social media. And so I love to speak to this quiet table vibe that you've created, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and why you think it's such a supportive place for women to be right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Well, thank you for that. That was not intentional the way you described it, but I love truly hearing your experience, Ryan. And I love hearing that that's what you were looking for. Um, is just really fascinating to me. So I'm I'm sure you're not alone. I'm sure there's a lot of people that feel that way. You know, for me, community was something that I had iterations of it before I started The Free Mama. It's something that's always been incredibly important to me. And I kind of alluded to it earlier with this like feeling like I was finally going to be at the popular table with the cool kids, like with this mastermind, because that was something I always thought that I wanted. Um, and we see this in TV, we see this, you know, in movie. Like, this isn't a new concept to be an insecure little kid and feel this way. I just didn't realize she was still such a part of me and I didn't grow out of it until, you know, my 30s and I had that experience. But it wasn't unfortunately or fortunately, because it's created me who I am. That wasn't just a middle middle school experience. I felt that way in high school. I had friends, of course, and I had groups I was a part of. I was on a competitive dance team, which was great. Um, I actually went to an all-girls high school. So I felt camaraderie, but I still felt or put upon myself this need to morph into whomever I was hanging out with. This need to be accepted and to think that I had to change myself in order to be accepted. And I took that same insecure girl to college. I was in a sorority. It was awful. I was parts of it were great. I did get very involved with Panolynic, which, if you never did Greek life, that's like the governing body over all of the sororities. And so I was very, I've always been kind of a leader. I've always been very involved. But the ironic thing is, my two best friends from college that I'm still very, very close with were in other sororities. So maybe I just chose the wrong one, but there was always this feeling of like being a part of something, but not feeling accepted by it. That was kind of my life story was like, I'm there, I've got the title, but I felt very othered within that. And I think to an extent, that can be the human experience. But when I created the free mama, it started really in a Facebook group. I mean, I knew where I was going. I knew I wanted to teach women about freelancing. I knew I was developing a course. But when I hired that first coach with all that money I didn't have, I immediately knew I wanted to start a Facebook group. That wasn't something she told me to do. It was very intuitive of like, I want us to gather. And that big speaking event I told you about, that was actually what I talked about. I talked about online and in business in general, we see these models where we are really just interacting with our clients, with our customers, with our consumers. Those are the people we're talking to, and that's it. And my mentality was always like, well, what about everybody else? What about all the people who want to be a part of this? They want, they believe in the mission, they believe in the movement, they believe in what I'm trying to say, but maybe they're not ready to buy yet. Or maybe they bought from someone else already, or maybe they're still learning. You know, there's all these different things. And so I in my mind, I have this visual because it was what my designer at the time had created on my slides, where it almost looks like, you know, you can picture like a sales funnel online for a business. And it was kind of dropping people like into a bucket who bought. And in a traditional sales funnel, everybody else kind of like falls off, right? All your non-buyers, it's like it goes down, down. But what are we doing with them? Sure, maybe they're on an email list or whatever. But for me, I wanted a place for them to land where everybody landed. And so the Facebook community was that for a really, really long time. It was a place where I'd answer everybody's questions. You know, I was just there for everybody. And that was something that was incredibly important for me to do. As far as it being a quiet space, I think that really comes back to leadership. You know, I just again, and I'm trying to think to those early days because it wasn't that long ago, but really 2017, 2018, I knew not because someone taught me, but just because of my own life experiences that people in the group, even subconsciously, were gonna model what I did. So if I showed up for other people, other people were gonna show up for other people. If I showed up every day and was generous, other people were gonna show up and be generous. If I created a Community where I was being really positive and not toxic positivity, but you know, if something bad was happening, how are we finding the silver lining or how are we looking for a solution? How are we not wallowing in self-pity when things are hard? But but how are we choosing to do something about it or learn something from it? And so that was something I was always very intentional about modeling. And I'll be honest with you, when I first started that community, I was very invested. I was, I would say I spent at least an hour a day in that Facebook group for the first year. And something pretty cool happened where eventually, like, I wouldn't really have to be there at all, but the tone had already been set. You know what I mean? Like the precedent was there. The people were running with it. Like I didn't have to do a lot of heavy lifting anymore because that it was the essence of who we were in that community. So I do think that a lot of it was intentional. You know, did I do it's so interesting, like the quiet lunch table. And I know what you mean by that. I really do. But it's not to say that we're quiet. It's to say it's more the you can sit with us, whoever you are, you know, to follow the metaphor, whether you're a jock or a theater person or a nerd or what, like there is a spot for you because the common denominator isn't that. It's not what you do, it's more who you are, you know? And that was always kind of the through line with the values of like being yourself and being like you can be vulnerable. You don't have to be posturing. That's a lot of what I see in other communities. I think that's the loudness you're referring to is not just the arrogance of like, buy something from me. I want everyone to know what I do, kind of loud, but also like the business is great. I'm doing like I'm doing wonderfully and never feeling like you can show people behind the curtain. And so that was something that was always incredibly important to me to show. But again, when you think about some of the stories I've I've shared with you about growing up, I think I just built the thing I never felt like I had, you know, and to have so many women over the years respond to it. And when I closed the brand, no, I just knew I didn't have to ask. There wasn't like research. I knew that there was going to be a revolt. And it might have been from a small group of people, but I knew there was going to be like a, well, where do we go now? And that was why I chose to leave my school community open because it was like, you know, even though I'm not trying to build, a build, build like I did a business, it's like we need, we need to keep this sacred space, to your word, because it is, it's really unique in online circles to feel that level of safety while also having something productive brewing underneath it.

Ryann 26:46

Absolutely. I think back to my early motherhood and entrepreneurial years, which happened to coincide with each other. I was so lonely. And there was just nobody to bounce ideas off of. You know, I took some courses, ended up getting into a mastermind, like ended up kind of, you know, thinking that these other people or coaches had some answer from me that I was looking for that was already inside, you know, which is where I've landed now. Like if I need to learn something, then I will pay somebody to teach me. But if I'm just out there frantically like looking for answers or connection, that's not the place that most surfs me to make decisions from, right? It's more of a grounded place of like this is specifically my need right now. So loneliness was one of those things. Like, I didn't have that community. So fast forwarding, present day, I've got a walking club that I do that I just went on last night. And it's like three or four gals just like walking and talking about business. And one of the women who got it started was like, I saw an ad on my Facebook feed where people pay to go walk with people to talk about business. Why don't we get some local gals together and go walk and talk about business for free for fun? And I'm like, oh my gosh. So I do walking club twice a month. We do a book club in person. Your book club, oh my gosh, is amazing too. But I do an in-person book club where we normally don't even read a book and we just show up and we chat and we what's going on. And, you know, this is what's happening in my life. This is what's happening for my kids. What do you think about this? Like it's this real-time problem-solving solution in your community, which what is the name that we've landed on? Has there been a name change? Has there not been? Okay. No pressure, no pressure.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

It's so funny. As you're saying, I literally have a group boxer chat right now. And it's so funny, Ryan, because if I were to coach myself, I would literally be like, just change it. You can change it again. Totally. But every time I'm about to do it, and this has happened like three times since January, I'm like, no, we're close. We're close. Maybe we should spit fire on this podcast and do like a vote or something. So, no, there is not a name. I don't want to cut off your thought. If we want to come back to this, I can give you some of my rolling ideas. Maybe it needs to be the quiet table. I don't know.

Ryann 29:10

I don't think that actually is enough, but maybe we'll pull something from this. We could pull something from this for sure. We can brainstorm and do a sesh.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

So right now Currently it's still the Free Mama movement.

Ryann 29:22

Currently, Mama movement. Yes. And so your networking inside there, your book club inside there, to go and consistently put myself in these rooms, in these in-person situations has literally been one of my, I guess I'm gonna call it happiness habits because we're talking about happiness a lot on the podcast right now. It's been one of my happiness habits. It doesn't mean that I don't have days that are hard. It doesn't mean that my kids all of a sudden like don't have issues or are super compliant or like don't have tantrums. Like, you know, my husband and I still have things that we need to work through. Like life is still the same. Like life is still lifing. And when I'm showing up in the rooms, not posturing, not being fake, not being like just being who I am, letting that authenticity come through. And that I think is a practice too. And it, the layers of the onion come off as you do it, as you practice it. That has been an absolute game changer for me. And honestly, I would say the number one thing I would tell anybody, new mom, new entrepreneur, anybody to do. That is the key. Get in the room with people who are being real.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, I completely agree. And it, I think what's hard, both because I've experienced it, but also talking to other people, is that it require, it requires effort. You know, if we want to go back to your word, you talked about feeling lonely. If you are lonely, no one's coming to save you from that. And that's hard because when you're lonely, you might also feel a little bit sad or depressed or like downer feelings, right? Totally. But we've got to kind of overcome that temporarily, just briefly enough to allow something to manifest that truly will make us feel better, like your happiness habit, like you call it. We've we've been in Florida now not quite two years. And the first year was really just like getting our grounding. We had been traveling full time, we were in a new place. It was like learning all these things. But this year, my entire mission for like my whole family, like it or not, for all of them, has been very like community driven. And so we joined, well, I homeschooled my kids. So we joined a couple of co-ops so that they could consistently be seeing the same kids, besides like a gymnastics class once a week. Um, my husband and I started what we call like a boots on the ground business. We ended up renovating a 1970 VW bus and turned it into a bookstore just like for fun. But it's something that it's it's in person. And after working on the internet for a decade, while I some of my truly best friends are actually former students of mine who live all over the country and the world for that matter. But there's something about having both. There's something also about friendship and community in proximity. So, like you, Ryan, I joined, it's a women's running club. Sometimes we walk, but it meets every Friday morning. I had seen them at an event. I like really was creepy and took a picture of their shirt and then like found it on Facebook later and just started going. But I'll be honest with you, like it's at 7 a.m. on Fridays. It took effort. It was like, okay, I gotta like get up in the dark, drive somewhere in the dark where I know no one, like show up and like hope for the best. Like that first time I went, I remember, and I'm an extrovert and I'm, you know, I've done this. I'm a people person, and it took effort to do. Is my best friend in that group? I still don't think so, but I've been coming like nine months now, and I'm like you, right? And it, but it's a beautiful group. You know, there's anywhere between maybe 15 and 40 women that come on any given day. It's it's large, it's women of all age. I mean, there's women in their 70s, maybe even 80s who still go. So it's it's inspiring and it feels good, and you feel energy from other people. And you can, like you said, just be in conversation. There was a time I went a few weeks ago, and one of the other moms was just like venting. And I did have to tell my husband about it. I thought it was kind of funny afterwards what she was talking about, but also felt such significance to be able to be that for her. Because I was like, this is a mom who clearly needed to get this off her chest. And what a privilege that she trusted me to be able to share this with, you know, and and there will be a time where I need that. And so that's what we have to remember when we're seeking out community is like it's hard when we wait till our cup is so dry. It happens, I've been there, so don't not do it if that's you. But there's this reciprocity when when we do this. And so when we can get up and help other people, then when we need a village around us, they're gonna be there for us too. We're humans, we are not meant to be in isolation. And so you need your people and you need them for all different parts of your life. You need the people you can talk to about your kids. If you're a mother, you need that. We are we're not meant to do this alone. And we have unique challenges today with social media and AI that no other generation has ever faced. If you are in business, you need business friends. Because while your mom or your husband might be a great sounding board, if they don't have any business experience, they are not the people that you should possibly be soliciting advice from, depending on the scenario. You need business people that you can be in community with. And so the last thing I'll say on that is if you're looking for like where do I start? Like I am feeling lonely, like like Lauren did or like Ryan used to. You know, much like you, I'm and I'm making an assumption if you joined a walking club, but like you probably like being active. At the time, I was training for a marathon. I love being outside. That's part of why we moved to Florida. Like, I like being active, I like being outside. So it's not hard to find a community that likes to do what you like to do, whether it's you like to read or something else. You know, get online, get on meetup.com, get on eventbrite or whatever, get on social media or ask around. But uh, it just makes life richer when you can find your people. And don't be bummed if it doesn't work out the first time. I spent$50,000 to realize there were a hundred people I didn't want to be friends with. I mean, it doesn't get much more insane than that. I mean, that's actual craziness. So, and to your point, you can do it for free. You can actually make friends for free. It's beautiful.

Ryann 36:31

I'll be your friend. Oh my God, it's so true. So you use the word significance, and I think that was an interesting word choice. It's this Arthur Brooks is on this like kind of book tour right now. He wrote a book with Oprah and they're talking about meaning and happiness and these like pillars to you know what makes a meaningful life or how to seek meaning. And one of the things is significance. Why does my life matter? And to who? And to me, that comes down to service. How are we serving our community? How are we holding space for the woman at running club? How are we holding space for our kids, for our neighbors, for our teachers at it, you know, like it's just it's such a small thing, but the small stuff is really the big stuff. And that former version of me 10 plus years ago, it's interesting looking back. It's so clear. I was lonely. I just needed a sounding board. I needed a friend, I needed a biz besti. But I it didn't even occur to me, which sounds so silly now. It didn't even occur to me. Like, get up and get out and talk to some people, you know, the only solution. And because I was taking my downtime to scroll on Instagram or scroll on Facebook. And when you're taking your downtime to scroll and look for solutions, 10 times out of 10, the algorithm is gonna give you a solution that's something that you need to pay for. That some coach has spent a lot of time, you know, marketing this message and this pain point and this tension that you're having. And so this is perhaps an invitation to when you're seeking something, sit with that discomfort, like you are discussing in your life, Lauren, and looking inside for 30 seconds or 90 seconds or three minutes. And what is it that I really need? Because it's not to spend$50,000. To be fair, I've had some very successful masterminds in general. That's just, that just wasn't one of them. That wasn't one of them. That wasn't one of them. Sure. So there's a time and a place for these investments for sure. But so the invitation is to kind of slow down and look within. And this brings me to the word courageous, which is a word that you are using right now. Courageous reinvention. Tell me about how you're sourcing this courage in your life.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

That's such a great question. I would say that feels like the essence of my being, just period. Probably not now, although most obviously to other people right now. I am someone who was very risk-averse. Was not, at least as far as I know, born to be an entrepreneur, although I did start a business as an elementary school student. We lived on a golf cart course and I would collect all the golf balls they hit into our yard and then sell them back to them. So I clearly that there were seeds there as a child, but that wasn't something I was aspiring to as I was going through school, right? I was very mechanical of like get good grades, go to the next thing, get a job, whatever. But then I just realized I was in my mid-20s and married, and I was like, this is it. This is what I've been working so hard my entire life for. Um, and so entrepreneurship for me was really a solution to how do I be home as a mom. And that was how I started freelancing. And I did pretty well at it, mostly through making mistakes and choosing to learn from them and then instead of letting them define me in a negative way. And that's where the free mama was born. But courage is a muscle that you strengthen, and it's one that has muscle memory. And so that's when I tell you that I'm sitting in this rebellion inside my body and it's uncomfortable and it's whatever. My sense of courage and sense of self is what allows me to say, calm down, it's gonna be okay. It doesn't feel okay, but I know this. I've done this before. So I can trust that and I can trust myself. So courage comes from being brave even when you're scared. And that can be anything, you guys. I mean, for me, that started when I invested in my business coach, for sure. That was scary. My first one. I had never spent that much money before. Um, and I didn't know if the free mama was gonna work. I had no idea. I had never done a webinar before. I had never built a I'd never done any of this stuff before. Um, but it didn't even start that big. It started, I had the Facebook group and then I hired the coach, and she's like, You're gonna start going live. And now that might not sound like a big deal, but in 2017, that wasn't something everybody was doing all the time. There weren't short form videos yet. People weren't used to seeing their face all the time. That was like ancient times for us elder millennials. We were just posting images of ourselves, like the selfie was still a baby. Like, you know, it really, and it's crazy that that was less than 10 years ago, but that's true. It was very different. And so I remember I won't curse on your podcast, but I remember her telling me that. And I was more or less like over my dead body. Like that. I mean, I was kind of it was it was a it was an adamant no with an excellent. Feel free to drop whatever bomb you want here. I I appreciate the permission, but we'll keep things classy. And I was not happy with her. We'll just put it that way, Ryan. I was like, I'm not doing that. That's how scary that was to me at the time. She just kind of looked at me and she was like, okay. Cause she knew that I was gonna go. I just gave her a lot of money. I should probably do what she tells me to do. And I did, took me a little time, and I did. And I always joke with people in my community whenever I ask them to do something that's outside of their comfort zone. I had diarrhea for like a week. Like every time I had to go live, I, you know, when your guts just start twisting and your intestines are like, we are not okay. Like every time I did a Facebook Live, I got severely dehydrated. Like it was bad, but I kept doing it. And now, you're not just years later, we'll say months later, because it doesn't take that long for something that once is like a heck no to become like a not a big deal. It's just not that big of a deal. We we have the capacity to expand what's normal to us, what's comfortable to us. That is not something that like we're born with, and then that's the way it is, and you have to live your life within those parameters. Here's the thing I want people to hear though. Most people do, and that's really unfortunate. That is really unfortunate because we were meant for growth. We were meant for expansion, but it requires courage because anytime you do something outside of your comfort zone, you are asking yourself to grow. You're asking your mind to ignore the like flashing red light that says danger, even if it's not really dangerous in the technical definition. And you're choosing that you want the outcome or sometimes just the potential outcome of that action more than to stay in your little safety zone. And it gets easier. It gets easier. It's like a muscle. And so I am unrecognizable, unrecognizable to the person I was 10 years ago that was terrified to leave my job, even though that's the only thing I would have told you I wanted to do. I was so scared to do it, even though it's what I said I wanted. And now I'm really excited. I turned 40 this year. Round of applause for getting old. Thank you. It's in May, and I'm excited because I invited my parents to come down. And on the morning of my birthday, weather pending. So everybody cross your fingers. Um, we're gonna do a hot air balloon ride. And I hate heights. I do not like heights at all. But I am now to the point where I am addicted to taking courageous action because I know how essential it is for my continued growth. Whether that's business or otherwise, it's just it's expansive and it feels good, even when it feels scary. So yeah, courage. It's it's the thing I wish for everyone is to be brave enough to pursue the life that you want to live, whatever that looks like.

Ryann 44:27

Be brave enough to pursue the life you want to live. That's so good. Every summer we drive to Michigan. And a few summers back, my husband loves like jumping into bodies of cold water. It's just like he's like obsessed. Polar clench. He's ever exactly. But he's like natural bodies of cold water. He's like any lake or any stream, pond, he's like in. He's in it. So he's always trying to talk me into come on, Rye, like get out of your comfort zone. And so a few years back, we go out on this like jetty thing. It's this like, it's a 10-foot drop. He's like, come on, like you got this. I didn't have a bathing suit on, nothing. I strip down to my yoga pants and my bra, and I jump off this 10-foot jetty with him into the into Lake Michigan. You know, it's super cold. My kids are there watching. I'm like, you know, yeah, mom and dad did it. You know, it was this moment. Fast forward a week later, we're driving up through the upper peninsula, and now we've got a 30-foot cliff off these rocks into Lake Superior. And I'm going, like, never even considered. I'm not a fan of heights either. I'm gonna jump off this cliff. I knew that we were driving to this destination for my husband to jump off this cliff. I'm up there, I'm watching him get pumped up to do it. I look at him and I say, I think I'm gonna do it. And he's like, What? So we've got a two-year-old with us, so we couldn't do it at the same time. Somebody had to be with the two-year-old, so he had to go, and then I had to go. And I jumped off this 30-foot rocky cliff into Lake Superior, like completely out of character, completely something overcame me and came up from the water, you know, catching my breath because it's like 45 degrees. And this feeling of calm and healing and pride just came over me. And when we show ourselves that we can do something, we start to trust our inner instincts. We start to trust the way that we're meant to go and supposed to go to do the work that we were put here to do.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Well, that's so beautiful. It's collecting proof, right? Proof of what you're capable of. It's easy to look around our lives and find all of the things that can keep us the same or keep us down. We have such a negativity bias, you know. But when we can collect proof of what we're capable of, that's chef's kiss. That's such a great story, Ryan. Thank you for sharing.

Ryann 46:52

I love yes. Thank you so much. Thank you for being you. Thank you for your writing. We didn't even get to talk about your writing, but I love your writing. It's the truthiest truth. Just when I read it, I'm like, yes, I resonate with all the things.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

I actually thought you were going to talk about it when you commented on the word significance. And I don't know if you've had a chance to read. Last week's post, but I actually talked about fulfillment needs because there's a book, it's not Oprah and it's not the other gentleman you mentioned, but and I'm not gonna remember the author's name off the top of my head. So maybe you can put it in the show notes, but it's called Your Life's Purpose is the book. And I actually read it before our final Free Mama event, which was back in February. I took about 16 women on a cruise, um, a business retreat, super, super fun. But before we went on, I was asking them all of these questions about like what's going on in their life right now, because I wanted to make sure that everything felt just very current that we were talking about. And several of them were circling around this like, do I even want to be in business anymore? Do I enjoy my business? Like, what am I supposed to be doing here? What's my life's purpose? So I found this book. And from the book, I extracted this entire workshop basically about figuring out their fulfillment needs based on the context of the book. And this particular book argues that we have four fulfillment needs. And there's a list of like 30 words. But one of my, actually, for the sake of the show, one of mine is community, but another one of mine is significance. And so we all we're all unique. And of course, we have our human needs, which of course there's overlap and all of these different things. But fulfillment needs are things that like you will not feel good, basically, if those four things are not being met. To the point that I don't know if anybody listening has ever like acted out or acted in a way that does not reflect their current age, even as adults. Yeah. Where like for me, my favorite example is always like, if I haven't felt like my family has appreciated me enough or whatever, I'll start narrating everything I do. I'll be like, don't worry, I'm just cleaning up dishes after everybody. It's fine. You could have put them in like things like that, like those behaviors. All of those types of things that we would do would be to get our fulfillment needs met. So anyway, maybe you can link to that particular author or that substack, but it's a really curious conversation. And for me personally, my significance, I do not feel that need being met with everything I do around the house. It is significant. The work I do as a mother and as a homemaker is significant, but it does not fulfill my need for significance and that my business used to. So when we talk about, we'll come full circle now, when we talk about that rebellion that I feel in my body, that discomfort, that kind of like that angst that I'm that discomfort that I'm sitting with right now, but choosing to have the courage to be patient and trusting myself and waiting, it's because that need right now is like calling out, like, hello, what are we doing next? Like, I don't know yet. Sit down, take a backseat.

Ryann 49:54

But um, it's it's it's all good. So good. Okay, so the substack from last week, I did not get a chance to read it yet. The title is I got what I wanted and still felt restless. Yes, first of all, just from the title. And then the book is called Your Life's Purpose by Michael J. Lozier or Lozier. And so, yes, and I'm going to link your substack because I love your reading. It's all just very I think that you do an amazing job. Uh, and I don't know if this is your intention or not, but pointing out these paradoxes that we, you know, are are living with, pointing out this middle way, so to speak, of like this and that are true at the same time. And I appreciate that so much. I also appreciate the vulnerability, the truth to stand in where you've been, you've been on stages, speaking to 5,000 people, you've built seven-figure businesses, and you're really excited about making the perfect loaf of sourdough bread right now. That is okay. And yet you're still being honest with that's not really fulfilling my need for significance, but maybe I'm on my way to finding out how to meet myself in the middle to find both. Lauren, you are such a gift. I'm gonna link your community down below. Come and hang out with us in the community. I'm gonna link your Substack. Go read everything of Lauren's. It's so good. And then, of course, all the places to connect with you on social. Thank you so much for being you and for being here today. Thanks, Ryan.