Dram Fine
Dram Fine
The Sisterhood of the Travelling Drams
What does it take to thrive in the male-dominated whiskey industry? Buckle up and join us on this inspiring journey as we celebrate the incredible women breaking barriers and making waves in the world of whiskey. From the challenges they face to their well-deserved successes, we're shining a spotlight on these amazing trailblazers and sharing our own experiences as we reflect on the evolution of the industry since we embarked on our podcast adventure three years ago.
This Episode is sponsored by Sherbrooke Liquor, one of the World's Best Top Bottle Shops.
Thank you for listening and remember to drink respectfully!
We want to hear from you! Send us an email at dramfineyeg@gmail.com
Hello everybody and welcome back to Durram. Find The Podcast where we talk all things with me.
Pam:I'm Chelsea And I'm Pamela. In this episode. we're going to chat about women in the industry, some of the challenges that they've faced and how they overcome them. We'll chat about some of our own experiences and I think you'll agree there's some pretty fierce energy coming from the females and the West Cassin. Let's do this.
Chelsey:Let's give it to the chit chat here. Chitty chat, chit chat. Okay, oh, pamela Hi.
Pam:Hey Chelsea, do you remember me? I know it's been a while. I'm so happy we're back. We're back.
Chelsey:It's good to be back. We were on a journey. We've been doing lots of things. We haven't been recording, though, unfortunately.
Pam:Sorry.
Chelsey:Well, it's no sorry, don't you sorry me. I apologize, though, to the listeners. No, it's you. Oh, i thought you were apologizing to me. I'm just dying to blame here.
Pam:Hey, not called completely.
Chelsey:I didn't invite that accusational tone.
Pam:Just kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I do have one question for you. What do you want now? Do you even like whiskey?
Chelsey:What do you mean, Pam? That triggers me. But you know what? That is a great intro, a funny little intro to what we're talking about today, isn't it?
Pam:Well, it's been a while since we chatted about our origin story and why we even started recording the first place, so I thought it'd be quite nice for us to you know talk about, as women and whiskey, what we experienced and what's changed since we started the podcast three years ago I think it was great.
Chelsey:Yeah, i think we have a different lens to view things through after three years. Well, i mean, this is a completely different side of the whiskey industry too that we've been, you know, diving into. you know it's not just serving the drinks, we're really kind of meeting the people that are running it, the ins and outs. So, yeah, i think we have a lot more to say And you know, and the one thing I've always expressed to you, pam I know I talk about this often is like I don't want to come across, like I don't want to be like we're any kind of victim mentality at the end of the day, right, like I don't want that to be the main takeaway. It's like, oh, women, oh no, but I just wanted to like highlight the amazing women that are in this industry, give them a platform, give them a voice and celebrate them. you know, rather than be considered like I just I don't know.
Pam:No, no, i understand That is a true fair point, but at the same time, it's still important to highlight some things that are happening. Oh 100% women feel uncomfortable or whatever. So there's a there's a balance to be had.
Chelsey:Yeah, 100%, yeah, 100%. So I just I thought I could be honest with you there. Yeah, so why don't you start? I mean, go like, tell quickly your story like what, tell me what kind of your insecurities and have they changed over? like the last three years? especially like what have tell me, tell me at all I think they have.
Pam:But I guess for me this started because I'm a Scottish person that lives in Canada and people would talk to me and my husband about whiskey. But they would always direct the questions at him or talk to him And not really me, and I used to get so mad about it because everything he knew about whiskey he learned from me essentially, so it kind of pissed me off.
Chelsey:Did he give you credit? Was he like Oh, i learned everything from my wife. Did he say that?
Pam:occasionally, occasionally, yeah, but it's still. I still was just a bit like that's annoying. So in the back of my head that was always kind of there when we started the podcast. But they're like, that's the. That's the bare bones of why. But there's obviously been other like expediencies there. Like you know, like there's a lot of stereotyping behind, like people who look at women who drink whiskey, i think as well. Like I'm sure you know this too. Like sometimes people think you're either like kind of a tomboy type personality which I'm not really to be honest with you No, no, or like the, the, the, the pick me girl.
Chelsey:You ever heard that term?
Pam:I'm not like the other girls. Yeah, You know that type of yeah. Oh, but it just, it's a drink people Like. I just I think. I really that really irritates me And obviously when you and I started hanging out and you had had some similar thoughts on the topic, like just feeling underrepresented as a female who likes whiskey, and there wasn't anybody that kind of made me feel represented in this podcast and especially that's why we chose this medium. But in general, just there wasn't anybody that kind of seemed like me. That was.
Chelsey:That was interesting whiskey, so yeah, take all the things that you enjoy life and adding whiskey to it, instead of confine or conforming to the traditional kind of I guess you know aesthetic of what whiskey maybe was perceived as beforehand. You know, with like the wood and the acoustic guitar and all there's a ooh, a branding, iron, ooh, like something like you know what I mean, like that vibe, yeah. So yeah, i know that's, that's good stuff. That's good stuff.
Pam:What about you?
Chelsey:Well, I had no intention of ever.
Chelsey:I never thought I'd be in this industry. I mean, whoever wakes up one day is like I'm gonna, i think I'm gonna get into whiskey. today I just I kind of fell into a job which inspired me to learn about whiskey And I kind of fell in love with it. And maybe it was just my naivete but I just kind of didn't really real. Maybe it was this oblivious to maybe the overt sexism I just kind of you know. so I just I think also, just being a server, you just kind of learn how to just take these comments you know, like water off a duck's back type of thing. So I think it was. it was easy enough for me to just kind of throw myself into it and then eventually just kind of not care. And by the time I maybe recognized that it was, there was a big, i guess, like tendency.
Pam:Are you talking about, like sexist comments?
Chelsey:Yeah, yeah, 100, yeah, sexist comments 100%.
Pam:You maybe just didn't realize at the time that you know that it wasn't appropriate.
Chelsey:Yeah, because I think you grow up, you know, in your early 20s you're like, or just you know, teenager, early 20s I always was had this mentality of you know, i don't want to cause trouble. You know, like I kind of men always seemed more of an authority, like I always wanted to, like I believed what they said, i almost bought into my own self-missile. You know, i think that I was kind of misogyny, like my internal misogyny, that I think we all have women to this day And eventually just kind of you know, easy grid, older you, just you just become aware of these things. So but I think, yeah, i think just being exposed to it right away And just I think I, just I just adapted, i think also because I really wanted to have as much tools in my tool belt to combat any type of snide comment. So if you're going to say I don't know anything about whiskey, i'm going to know everything about whiskey And I'm going to embarrass you. So like, maybe not, you won't even know it, but you know, if someone knows, they know.
Pam:And that's that's a technique that you took on to combat that right, like that's also kind of unfair.
Chelsey:Yeah, yeah it is Because I mean, some people can just get by on doing things, just being super aggressively, mediocre and still succeed. And I think, as women you do have to be, you do have to go above and beyond. You are at the other day, i feel, women, you, there's a bit of infantilizing and underestimation of women overall in a male dominated industry And you know that and it puts me on this It is I think it's improving a lot Like what do you think?
Pam:I think it is definitely changing. I think also there's there's tactics that we've maybe leaned on in the first couple of seasons of the podcast, that now we've got our own self confidence in what we're doing, that we maybe don't need to lean on that as much, like I feel like we over, over over prepared for everything we were doing, like the imposter syndrome was was real. Yeah, and our technique for getting over that was we. We worked so hard on prep for every episode we did Yeah.
Chelsey:Oh yeah.
Pam:We studied so much every episode. What if they?
Chelsey:would have to call us out. But guess what? If it's been really cool, like I really love the people we've met, men and women of all kinds. It's been fucking fantastic. But I think we did an interview with Shelly Sacier Sacier, sacier, right Who wrote the make it a double book, and one of the things I think we Yeah, she was so great. Well, one of the things I will always take with me is we had a conversation about okay, well, i'm not going to, i don't necessarily want to join this party, i'll start my own party in a way, right. So I think that's what this podcast was at the end of the day, like you know, i'm not going to, we're not going to. Maybe we want to be part of the community of 100% and we and we are, but we also want to kind of start our own table within the party you know what I mean And make our own rules a bit you know, with our own perspective.
Pam:And I think that also, like, can I close the hole? I don't see someone that kind of represents me here, so it goes in hand in hand. So, oh, we're such a big little partnership, chelsea. Oh, i love that, but you just kind of mentioned like things have changed, which I do genuinely think that they are, and things are getting better, and a lot of the time, i have noticed, though, it is it is women leading that change, and for me, i know, like I spoke about imposter syndrome and self worth as well, because we wanted to make money out of this right.
Chelsey:So we're like, we just want to talk whiskey and have a nice time.
Pam:No, we don't. We want to.
Chelsey:No, I just want to give me all. just give me whiskey, guys, i'm fine.
Pam:I don't mean money to live It's fine.
Pam:But deciding how much you're worth was really, really hard And I really struggled with that. So one of the things that I ended up doing was I signed up for the mentorship program with our whiskey, which really, really helped me like so much. I was paired with a really lovely lady called Emily and she runs her own PR company in London and I would be talking to her about my ideas or you know, some of the things we kind of had in her back pocket here with what we're trying to build with drama, fine, and she was like um, that is absolute gold, like that is That is worth so much money to brands right? Like why can't you see that? You know?
Pam:and it is hard as a woman, especially because we kind of trained from a young age to please people or to help.
Chelsey:Not take up space, you know, yeah, like I was saying, we don't take up too much space, don't cause too much trouble, let's go with the flow.
Pam:I feel like I always wanted to do it for free, like people don't do it for free, but like you, can always do it for free.
Chelsey:No, no, no.
Pam:And our time is precious.
Chelsey:It's precious and limited, you know, not infinite, I should say.
Pam:Well, yours is because you always triple book yourself.
Chelsey:I triple book myself. I think that I can harvest like three more of myself like clone in last minute. somehow figure it out. I always leave Tudor Chelsea just fuck her over all the time.
Pam:I do?
Chelsey:I'm trying.
Pam:Pam.
Chelsey:I don't. Well, today you did yesterday. You're like Chelsea. When can I reasonably give me a reasonable time when you can expect this to be edited, Because I do the editing people just letting it go? I was like part of me says that it I could do it by tonight. But I just know, Don't say that, because I'll just fucking won't, Because I won't, I'll stress out, I'll do it and be stressed out. It won't be as good as I want it to be, Or I'll just be like, oh Pam, I can't do it. And then I just broke my promise. So I just said I was like, maybe by Friday I'll be my deadline. Yeah, Thank you, Good ghetto.
Pam:Good ghetto. That's us, and we know each other so well. Give me a realistic date here, please, yeah.
Chelsey:But I mean, but you know, the whiskey, this industry. I'm falling in love with it more and more The longer we are part of it, and the amount of people we've met, and even just you touching upon you whiskey again, which, oh sorry, our whiskey, not you whiskey, pardon me to plug our uh-huh, me whiskey, no, our whiskey, no, i'm joking, oh you whiskey, me whiskey, us whiskey, our whiskey. That mentorship program that you were part of, that Becky's head that's her baby Yeah, she uh just. I really enjoy how she's making that just whiskey industry accessible to, you know, just to minorities in general, like people of color and, you know, women or just all types of people.
Pam:Yeah, well, i think that stereotype and really does stem from the media and advertising, right, because a lot of the imagery was always men. But even that she's tackled and there isn't really an excuse for it anymore now that she's brought out her library Free imagery, oh yeah, that's such a cool idea.
Chelsey:Can we get it? Can we get it on that? Can we send some photos of herself to the free image library? I think we should do it. Um, oh also, but don't you notice too, just the advertising in the last few years for larger, these larger companies like Glenmore and G and um, what else do you want to see? recently, they're just they're, so it's a cold, different type of branding they're doing. I'm noticing It's very like modern, very bright, very, um, very like accessible. It's not what you would expect. Maybe. It's very sleek, chic.
Pam:Yeah, i'm happy to see it. Yeah, i'm happy to see it.
Chelsey:Happy to see it. Keep it going, guys and guys.
Pam:Love it. We love our vibrant colors.
Chelsey:We do, although I love black, but it's fun to. it's nice to wear color too. sometimes You got me wearing so much color. now, pam, i know Like what the hell.
Pam:What was it? What was it you got in Vancouver? Oh, you got a really nice yellow skirt. I bought a yellow skirt with pattern on. I was thinking for you.
Chelsey:I know Dintage baby, okay. So, uh, should we talk about? because we're going to, we're going to, eventually, kind of we're going to, we're going to let some um women that we, uh I've gotten contact to within the industry, they're going to kind of share their piece. We asked them a few questions and they're going to kind of share a bit of their experience. Um, but before we do that, though, we're drinking something very special today, are we not?
Pam:Oh yeah Yeah, I have something real really nice here. Look at that out of your pockets there We last.
Chelsey:Is that good Scottish accent, or was that Irish?
Pam:Was that? That was horrendous.
Chelsey:Pam hates it when people try to be Scottish. Just grinds her gears. Oh, I just love it.
Pam:Honestly, It's not cool. Do you know what? I actually especially hate it when you do it? Yeah, Oh because I, because I do it just to piss you off, yeah, i know how to get it, but I, but also you, told me you get out to do it. I did, do you know? do you know how we stuff it to me now?
Chelsey:Oh sorry, Did I sabotage you from the inside, Within your family? Oh sorry.
Pam:I was all, all I'm Pam, all I'm Scottish and I've got pink hair.
Chelsey:Okay, well, my job here is done, i feel good about that. Pam, i'm sorry, but I feel that's hilarious. Okay, so what are we drinking?
Pam:Right. So I've got a lovely bottle of Colpalm and my mum brought over for me. My mum lives on Isla, as the listeners probably know, and she and her husband bought a cask from Colpalm and right early on when they were starting out, and it's got like a nice wee story to it. So it's task number 95. It was an all or also sherry cask imported to the UK by Brooklady Distillery on Isla And in 2001, it was filled with Brooklady Spirit for a private customer and bottled in 2011.
Pam:Within a month, the cask had made the short journey down the road to Colpalm and Distillery And it was filled on March 12. It's cool having all these dates in it, like it's so interesting March 12, 2012, with spirits spirit produced from the barley grown in the northeast of Scotland And it's maltied at 50 ppm at Isla Maltons in Brooklady. And then the cask was taken to the Conispy Warehouse of the Distillery, overlooking the Lochindolle. Would it lead there for the next 10 years? So the cask was bottled on the 13th of May 2022. Oh, we have its birthday at 54.9.
Chelsey:Oh, we have its birthday. It sounded like Mrs Doubtfire there. Hey, you pop it.
Pam:You are at it. Each bottle is individually numbered and there's only 297 bottles available, and we've got one right here.
Chelsey:And wow, that was a dissertation. That was quite the.
Pam:I know I've got a wee letter here. It's like, basically it reminds me of having a cabbage patch, though Oh yeah, it's like birth certificate.
Chelsey:It's like what I'm basically reading from Does it have a list of its hopes and dreams and goals for the future. Struggles in the past. No It would be cool if it did.
Pam:It would be cool if it did, maybe our cask Well, it kinda does, actually, because it's cask. Actually, it's got its cask development here so I can see the colors It was, it's sexual.
Chelsey:It doesn't want to win an egot.
Pam:I don't know what that means.
Chelsey:No, Emi, grammi, oscar, tony the egot Oh Yeah, that's aspiration for some. I think Wipi Goldberg has it. They're out there, the egots.
Pam:They're right there. Oh well, let me pour you a drama that's in your window.
Chelsey:Okay, pour me a drama. Did I record it? Did you hear that? Yeah, okay, oh, we have Pam here with beside me. She can't hear, but just do your pop, please. Okay, oh, oh, oh, i swore That was a good one. It was like a pop and a I know Okay.
Pam:You're hot.
Chelsey:Yeah, oh, thank you. Okay, i have it with me. I'll let Pam do her thing. Get back into her spot. Oh, she's sitting down, she's putting her headphones on. Oh, there she is. She looks confused, perplexed, back at my station, gathering her, gathering her, yeah, gathering herself. Oh, she's happy, she's smiling, she's laughing, always happy, yeah you are Fail Mostly tight, most of the time.
Pam:I'm happy to be some kind of sociopath, mostly happy when I've been just got a glass of whiskey. Yeah.
Chelsey:Yeah, and then me making fun of you. Okay, So okay. Well, let's do one any first impressions of this before we get into our guests. I think, hi, let's do it Well let's just take a little quick color, because it's a nice, that's a nice Beautiful color, right Color? would you call that Amber?
Pam:Amber, maybe like a Dark amber, like a burnt, burnt amber.
Chelsey:Happy Burnt amber with a molasses and like a Yeah. It's cool It looks oily It looks.
Pam:It looks like quite oily, nice and oily, you got it. It's got legs, it's got legs. Okay, that just makes me think of ZZTool. Yeah, that's.
Chelsey:I think it's nice for everybody. And what did you think ABB on this sucker was? It's like, it's like 59. Yeah, it smells like a hot 59.
Pam:54.9.
Chelsey:Oh 54.9.
Pam:Lovely.
Chelsey:It's first impression. Oh wow, That's nice. It tastes oily Yeah. Sweet oily goodness. So you've had it many times by now, huh.
Pam:Yeah, I really like this one.
Chelsey:Unfortunately, people, if you want to try it, you can't, you can't, you can't, Or you just have to befriend us and we will maybe share some with you. But overall, i mean, i haven't been really disappointed by anything by Coleman and I don't really know. They do some really cool, interesting, like special release, or I guess releases like What do you call it? Oh my God, what do you call it when you release something just for like one person? Special releases, special cast, yeah, yeah, god, yeah, they've done some really interesting. They do really interesting like special, like single cast release, type of things, i think like Kensington Wine Market down in Calgary. They always do. I think they do. They have something really cool with them at one point, i think.
Pam:Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, no, I've seen a few places here doing that.
Chelsey:Well, let's check back in with it after a few chats and we'll see how it opens up. You know, pickle, pickle, okay. So who were we going to dive into first? Pamela?
Pam:Well, actually, thanks for drinking with Coleman. We should maybe go to Chloe Wood.
Chelsey:Chloe Wood.
Pam:Yes, chloe Wood, let's do it.
Chelsey:So she is the Export Sales and Marketing Manager for a Coleman, I guess. 10 years experience in the industry, as you'll find out, So let's check in with her. She answered some of our questions and let's see what she has to say. Chloe Hi everybody.
Speaker 6:My name is Chloe Wood and I'm the Export Sales and Marketing Manager at Coleman Distillery from Islander. The first question is how did you get into whisky? Now, my accent might give it away. I am from Islay originally, so I grew up on Islay until I was about 23 and then left for Singapore. But growing up on Islay has played a huge part in as to why I'm in the industry. Now.
Speaker 6:You know, when you grow up on Islay you're surrounded by Scotch whisky. You've got some amazing distilleries that you've always been aware of. You know, even when you're very young, whether that have been the fact that your family may have worked there. They may have done some work for the distilleries. They may have grown barley for some of the distilleries as well. So there was always an awareness of single malt being produced on the island. And from my side I kind of come at it from a different angle, in the sense that my dad he grows the barley for Cochomean distillery at Rockside Farm, but he also dries the barley for Cochomean and for Braclady at our farm, our family farm, which is Octafad, just down the road from Port Charlotte. So you know, from a production side of things, that's where I come from. I was always fascinated with the way whisky is made and produced and having that kind of personal connection with the farm and my father doing it, you know it just made it that bit more personal. And, as I said, i've always been interested by the production side of things. You know I was always amazed that you know you could take these ingredients of barley, water and yeast and yet every distillery is producing something different. I was always fascinated by that and you know I always kind of thought I wanted to try and get into it but I didn't really know how. But maybe now, nine, if not ten years ago which is a scary thought I started working at Braclady distillery as a seasonal tour guide. So you know that opportunity to progress in the whisky industry was always something that I thought. You know how amazing would it be to be able to maybe travel and talk about home, to really kind of build the community on Islay around whisky and showcase the amazing spirits that we can produce one site from home as well. So I started as a seasonal tour guide and then that took me off in a direction into the Brand Academy. So it was always education based. So I was the manager of the Brand Academy and then that led to a position in Singapore where I was the Asia Pacific brand ambassador, closely followed by a global brand ambassador for Braclady, and then in May last year so in 2022, i started with the Co-Homan team as export sales and marketing managers And I think you know, coming at it from, i want to promote my home. Ultimately, if you know, if Islay does well, all the distilleries do well, and I think everyone on Islay is doing something totally different and if I can play a small part in that progression, then I've done my job.
Speaker 6:The second question is what am I drinking right now? So, drum of choice, always a difficult one when we're always releasing some new whiskeys like Co-Homan, but I have to be honest, it's the 100% Islay 12th edition. So we released this last year around the world and, if anyone knows, it's something we release as an annual limited release. So it probably sits around 12,000 to 13,000 bottles, depending on the barley harvest. But this is something that we're very proud of at the distillery. It's something that well, it's the reason Co-Homan was established to do that barley to bottle, you know, with the only distillery on the island that has our own farm and takes that barley from growing the actual grain just outside at Rockside, right the way through to malting, doing the full production, warehousing and bottling it. So this is why it's the 100% Islay And for me, this is, you know, this is why I love working for the distillery, because it is a version of Islay that you know is so unique to Co-Homan. Always a good shout, and I may as well note that there will be a 13th edition coming later in the year, so definitely keep your eyes and ears peeled for some news on that.
Speaker 6:The third question is what were the challenges being a woman in the whiskey industry? So I think I've probably heard and seen quite a lot over the the ten years, but you know, i think it's progressively getting better, which is it's a positive note, and I would say that I've not not had too much on my end. I would say the one thing that I am is is questioned on things, maybe to test my knowledge and experience, and maybe second-guest. You know the the the main one is do we drink whiskey? Do we enjoy it? You know, and I can safely say for all the women working in whiskey, we all, we all love what we do. You know there's a reason why we're in this whiskey industry and That reason may be different for everybody, but we've all got that favorite whiskey, we've all got that kind of chance to unwind and enjoy a dram, and.
Speaker 6:But I think if you work in whiskey and you are consumer facing, of course we want to be as knowledgeable as possible and experience is key, right, so we try and learn as much as we can and that's that's for anybody, not just women. I think everybody wants to be as knowledgeable in the industry. So, yes, i would say that those, those, those aspects are questioned, and but the whiskey community is an incredibly strong and tight-knit community as well. So we have a lot of support from the industry across the board and Support from colleagues, of course, as well. So, yes, we do see kind of that, that bad side of it, but you also have the support that backs up. So it's not something that we try and dwell on too much. And how do we overcome them? And I think From my side, you know you certainly feel that there is a stereotype that whiskey is a man's drink, and I think it's certainly changing that stereotype, but it will take a long time for that stereotype to completely go.
Speaker 6:My aim is always to make sure everyone feels welcome, whatever gender you may be, whether that is a whiskey tasting or event, or it might be a festival, it might just be someone who reaches out via social media. I think as an industry we want to spread that knowledge and that kind of understanding of our distillery, you know. So it's making sure that everybody feels welcome. There's no question That's too silly. There's no question that you know. If, for example, i get asked a question And maybe sometimes I don't know the answer because we've never been asked it, i think it's making it an approachable topic of conversation, just making sure everyone feels comfortable.
Speaker 6:And on my side, to make sure I can overcome any of those questions, i need to be as educated on the industry as possible. So on a day-to-day basis, you know there's always extra reading, there's articles being read, there's podcast being listened to, there's books being read. You know you're always trying to further your own knowledge because ultimately we are the connection to the distillery. So You know, out in markets We are educating people, not just on our own whiskey But the wider industry as well, and it's because everyone wants everyone to do well. So For us it's about education. If you are 100% certain on what you're saying. You know Be strong with that and keep going. And I think you know trust in your own vision and opinion as well. But we're here to educate, ultimately, and be part of a community that's meant to be fun and exciting. So that's what we should always be doing, and I always think that you know That gender shouldn't come into the equation and enjoying spirits. It should include everybody. And if I can Make people feel at ease or make people feel comfortable, then I've done my job. You know It should. All it shall always be exciting and fun.
Speaker 6:And then the next question is is there someone in the whiskey industry, past or present, that is an inspiration to you? So I spent the majority of my time with brooklady, as they say. I've been with Kohoman for a year and I've looked up to many women in the whiskey industry and kind of tried to learn from each of them respectively. But I was very fortunate to work alongside Lynn McEwen and Geraldine Lagaric in the early years. I learned a lot of them, from a lot from them, from a marketing, sales and just passion Perspective as well. You know, i think, if you've got an idea and you're strong with it, to keep going and to keep pushing on with it and To be proud to voice an opinion as well. You know, i think Sometimes maybe as a woman in the industry, or not as, or maybe speaking from experience, were not as forward, but no idea is a bad one. And I think that kind of openness comes from from listening to the likes of Lynn and Geraldine And also I was, i was lucky enough to work with Linda do And in Singapore and again it's that passion and that drive to do well.
Speaker 6:You know, and you learn from from it, all of these people and but I think across the board, i'm inspired by women in production, you know, women in marketing, women in sales to those that are writing articles and kind of doing much more public speaking than I am in the whiskey industry. And What's really exciting for me is there's so many women that are my age, so I'm 28. You know this industry is full of people that are excited and driven by the industry. So You know you can kind of look for inspiration anywhere at the moment. And you know I was just at a festival and a whiskey festival in New Zealand and so shout out to team at whiskey galore, and there was so many young females Presenting their brands, and that is an inspiration. You know that people are just excited and driven by the industry.
Speaker 6:So the next question is and are you seeing a shift in attitude towards women in whiskey? And I would certainly say so, certainly from when I started, and it was a lot more male driven as a consumer, and but over the years, so many more women had to come on board And it's really great to see, to be honest, because it just takes one woman to tell another to tell another and then that's how That change happens in the industry. So, absolutely, we're seeing more and more people coming to to the fore, and That that really is my role. You know We often get asked to do women in whiskey tastings and my. Of course I'll happily host these, but I think it should just be open to anybody.
Speaker 6:You know, whether you are Women or male, or sort of female and male, it's completely irrelevant in my mind.
Speaker 6:I think, if you want to learn more about whiskey and get involved with whiskey, that's where the key thing is, or the key point in my mind.
Speaker 6:So Just being as inclusive as possible is allowing more women to come into the industry, and You know we're surrounded by incredible people, you know, that are leading teams as women, and that's that's inspiring as well. So I think when you've got these voices that are recognized within the industry, they can only strengthen the conversation and Towards women working in the whiskey industry. So There's still a lot to do, of course, but if we can make people feel excited, keep that passion alive within the whiskey industry and make sure that people are just enjoying what we're doing, hopefully more and more women will become part of the industry as it progresses. So I I shall sign off, but thank you very much for for having a quick chat with me And, of course, we look forward to seeing you at the next whiskey festival fair event, whatever it may be. Please come and say hello. We're always open for a conversation and And sharing a dram or two. But thank you very much, take care, guys. Bye, bye.
Pam:Oh, thanks, chloe. I actually really like how she mentions the colleague support. I think that's really important and any job of the year in. But, like I feel like that's Probably how we we go on with a lot of stuff as well, because we have each other To lean on when we're feeling, you know, if a or whatever with the situation. Yeah, but you know she talks a lot about like just she just wants to make everyone feel welcome, like men and women, which, of course, like I would love for it to just be about humans and not and not gendered. But she mentions like extra preparation for everything, extra reading and all that, and obviously we mentioned that earlier. So I feel like, yeah, she's, she's totally Touching on the similar things that we've we've felt, and but she's been it for 10 years Oh yeah, a long time. But I'm glad to hear that she's noticing a shift, and in the industry as well.
Chelsey:Yeah, from you know, having people like her behind the scenes, right, she's helping. We're all, we're all worded together here. Yeah, she's really she's. She sounds like a lovely, lovely person And I actually would love to meet her in person one day. So, hey, chloe, come to Edmonton. We got a big mall.
Chelsey:Got a great big mole got a real big mall, is a ship in it. That's all you need to know. Okay, chloe, yeah, she sounds lovely and she's a great accent as well. But, yeah, i also, yeah, i really enjoyed her for sentiment. I can really relate to what she's saying, for sure. And yeah, it is nice to have support, you know, even with you, it's great to have you to lean on, which I do and, let's be honest, i do all the time. But I'm, even with my previous experience in, actually, you know, the job I have now and the form and the distillery I worked for, they were very like, you know, very supportive of letting me kind of take the lead on things and running tastings and and do kind of rising to the occasion to meet, i Guess, my needs of what I, what I wanted to do, and not, I Guess, under a stay, maybe let's put it that way there. Yeah, good, good people. Yeah, okay, well, should we? Next let's do sex? you know why? let's? let's add to. Well, do you like? do like black Sabbath?
Pam:Yeah, I love Black Sabbath. I want to see them.
Chelsey:Oh I see Nausie. Well, we are. He's on the pod, Ausie, Come on. What do you have to say about women in whiskey? You know he does quote one of his, one of his solo songs. He says wine is fine, but whiskey is quicker. Suicide is slow, with liquor A little dark, but that's Nausie for you.
Pam:That was great. I like that. That's a good segue.
Chelsey:Yeah, so that leads to the. You know we're heading to the bourbon whiskey And not just any bourbon whiskey Bourbonistly, bourbonistly, i was trying to say bourbon whiskey from England. So which is bourbonistly England whiskey? Yeah, so obviously it comes to mind. When you think of bourbon, you think of England, right, of course you do. Yeah, there's like two peas in a pod. So never say die is actually the first bourbon to be distilled in Kentucky but shipped via the Atlantic Ocean vessel and then matured in England. And so never say die. Really cool name is also a Black Sabbath album for those who don't know. So we are going to let Martha, who is the brand co-founder, say her piece on her experience in the industry as a English person making whiskey in England, you know, martha, take it away.
Pam:Perfect Okay.
Speaker 3:How did you get into whiskey? So I'm a political strategist by trade and I run a communications company in London with some of the other founders of never say die, and we've always been bourbon fans, drunk a lot of bourbon when we were starting up our business and also on trips to America. And so when my business partner, david, went to the Kentucky Derby with his old university friend, pat, they were drinking mint juleps on the way to the Derby And Pat was telling this story about this horse called never say die that grew up on his family's farm And the reason it was called never say die was when it was born it was really struggling for breath And the horseman, in the sort of last roll of the dice, decided to give it a shot of bourbon and basically said this is either going to kill it or save its life. And then the next morning it was running around the pen and so they called it never say die And that horse went on to win be the first American racehorse to win an English Derby. And so you know, as a Britain American chatting at the Derby, they just thought what an amazing story for a transatlantic bourbon brand. And so when David came back to London and told me about this. I knew that I had to get involved and make that dream a reality, and I'm really proud that that's what we've done.
Speaker 3:What are you drinking right now? So we are in the final sampling stages for our next skew, which is going to be a small batch bourbon, hopefully to be launched this spring, summer. And what's been really exciting is that we, out through this process, we've been tasting all of the barrels that we have here in the UK that have been ocean aged, and it's just so interesting the different flavor profiles of those different barrels. Some, you know, quite hot, they're quite cinnamony. Others are, you know, really smooth and you know real taste of caramel. And others actually are quite, you know, they're quite sweet. You know almost candy floss like. So what we're doing at the moment is trying to come up with the best flavor combinations so that we can bring that small batch bourbon to market. So, yeah, that's what I'm drinking right now. I'm quite a lot of it. So, yeah, it's been fun.
Speaker 3:What were the challenges of being a woman in the whisky industry and how did you overcome them?
Speaker 3:So I'm used to being in a male dominated industry, being in politics, and whisky is quite similar.
Speaker 3:I think it often means that people underestimate you and you have a bit of imposter syndrome, but I think that you have to harness that and enable that kind of imposter syndrome to help you take risks and to do things before you're ready, which I think is what all you know great entrepreneurs and great brands do. If you take the bourbon tariff, for example, which made it really expensive to import American whisky to the UK and for us, put our entire plans on hold, it was women that sorted that out. So a trade war started by Trump and Yonker, sorted out by two amazing women, ambassador Tai and our trade secretary Trevelyan. So I think it's just about, you know, women getting shit done really, and for us, with our brand, we've got loads of amazing women involved, and I just know that if a woman tells you she's going to do something, that she will do it, and there's just less bullshit. So I think that's what it's about working with great people, often great women.
Pam:Is there someone in the whisky industry, past or present? that is an inspiration to you.
Speaker 3:It's a hard question because there are so many amazing women doing incredible things, but for me, mary Ann Barnes is a real hero of mine. She's the first female master stiller in Kentucky Bourbon obviously an industry really dominated by men And her track record completely speaks for itself. She worked her way up at Brown Foreman, starting as an intern all the way to being the star people of Chris Morris and becoming Woodford's first ever master taster along the way. So you know, just an incredible woman. And then here in the UK, dawn Davies is the head buyer of the whisky exchange. You know, total force of nature, just an expert on all things whisky and, to be honest, all things drinks. And when we were launching at the whisky exchanges trade show in London, she was just such a big supporter of ours and I can't thank her enough.
Speaker 3:Why do you see the shift in attitudes towards women in whisky? I think I'm too much of a newbie in the industry to really speak to whether there's been a shift, but as someone that is new in the industry, i think that there are loads of women doing amazing stuff in the industry. I've met amazing founders of businesses, people that have been involved in, you know, distilling whisky buyers, journalists, prs So I don't think it's really about there being a lack of women. It's just about women being taken seriously, and you know the prominence of women in the industry, and since we launched in September, i've met so many women that are knowledgeable and passionate, so I think it's just about us helping each other, and you know, being the person in a room that will hear a lot of women, so that's what I hope to do.
Chelsey:Wow, she's, she's badass. I like her vibe, yeah, i do too.
Pam:I like that. She's like women just getting shit done. Let's do shit.
Chelsey:Horses, let's name things after racing horses. Give some whiz, give some horse a whisky. See what happens. Like there's so much potential from giving horses whisky, i think. But yeah, so what do you? what do you? Yeah, she kind of you know she talks. it's talks about a lot of the similar things that we were touching upon with Chloe as well, and Ken imposter syndrome. What a concept. Seems to be a running theme.
Pam:It does, it does, But I like that. She's like. You know, the thing to combat is to take risks and to do things before you feel ready. Yeah, I feel like we know that now. Yeah, you just do it.
Chelsey:I think Nike said it best you know, Yeah.
Pam:I also liked her talking about you know the working in politics and how she's always kind of been in a male dominate industry. That was kind of interesting to me.
Chelsey:Politics seems like I would never want to work in politics, oh God, especially nowadays. Give me whiskey, i would be drinking way too much whiskey if I was in politics, that's for sure, be drunk all the time. But you know what? that would probably be good. I mean, i'd probably be very just, you know, be drunk the entire time and get a big voting base, i'm sure nowadays because this has got into politics here. So we move on to the next wonderful woman we had the pleasure of speaking with.
Pam:Yeah, i think we're going to stick on the Kentucky train. here. We're going to talk to Morgan Hancock, who runs Bourbon with Heart, which is the only arts focused bourbon charity, first and only. Yeah, she's doing pretty cool things there, raising money for good causes and then doing good shit over there in Kentucky. So let's hear what she's got to say about her experience.
Speaker 5:Question one how did you get into whiskey? I got into bourbon the way that every native born Kentucky and gets into bourbon. We're born in Kentucky. You can't be living Kentucky and not be impacted by the influence of bourbon, whether that's culturally or economically. Bourbon is a large part of what makes Kentucky Kentucky. But beyond that, my fiance of five years owns a fire protection company and his company does the fire protection for, honestly, the majority of the distilleries in Kentucky and fire protection is a very important part of making bourbon. It is flammable And some pretty bad things have happened of combining improper fire protection and distilleries. So it's a big job for him. But through that he was very well connected with a lot of players in the bourbon industry. And then also I've been in advertising for most of my life. And again, if you're going to work in Kentucky, and particularly in advertising or media, the bourbon brands are going to be big And those are going to be accounts and those are going to be clients that are going to be some of your biggest. So I also became very familiar and well connected with the bourbon world through advertising and media.
Speaker 5:Question two what are you drinking right now? When people ask me what I'm drinking. I sometimes joke and just give a politically correct answer that I'm drinking whichever bourbon brand is sponsoring me at the time. But I'll give you a little less PC answer. I always wish that I had some maybe cooler or more unique bourbon to claim as my bourbon, but if I'm being really honest, just Jim being white label is my favorite.
Speaker 5:Question three what were the challenges of being a woman in the whiskey industry? The challenges of being a woman in the bourbon industry are much of the same challenges of being a woman in any industry, any male dominated industry. So I don't know if there's anything particularly unique to being a woman in the bourbon industry, other than I don't think it's typically viewed as a drink that female prefer. In fact, it's funny, even going back to my college days, if I was out with a guy and one of us would order a bourbon, and if I would order a bourbon and he might order something different, they would always set the bourbon in front of him, assuming that it would be the man drinking bourbon. Or if someone asked oh what do you want to drink? A vodka, soda, wine? And I'd say no on a bourbon. You do seem to get a little hesitation or a pause, are you sure? Yes, women do like bourbon too, so I guess that is one unique component of being a woman associated with the bourbon industry or just being a female bourbon drinker in general. But I do think that is changing. See next question Is there someone in the whiskey industry, past or present, that's an inspiration to you?
Speaker 5:If I had to pick someone in the bourbon industry who's an inspiration to me, i think I would have to go with Peggy Noe Stevens. I mean, she's really been the pioneer and blaze the trail for women in bourbon And since I'm someone who's not seeking to be a master distiller or necessarily work in the industry of creating bourbon, she's kind of a role model and an example of how you can be a woman in the bourbon industry, but on the more educational entertainment spokeswoman side of it And that's kind of more where I see myself And she's just done a lot of incredible work and, as I said, just really paved the way for women in bourbon. If you ask somebody name a female in the bourbon industry, her name's gonna come up. So she's an inspiration to me as well as you guys. You know Anyone that's just putting themselves out there and trying to make an impact in an industry that they're passionate about.
Speaker 5:Next question are you seeing a shift in attitudes towards women in whiskey? I think we're definitely seeing a shift in attitudes towards women in whiskey. We're seeing female master distillers pop up all the time and women in other leadership roles. We're seeing a lot more female influencers in the bourbon industry, for sure, and they seem to be taken more seriously and respected, and we're seeing all kinds of women in bourbon social clubs and groups popping up. I will say, the one thing that we've still not seen much of maybe never is a female as the brand of a bourbon, as in a female's face name on the label of the bourbon brand. So that's something that I'm still looking forward to happening one day, hopefully sooner than later.
Chelsey:My biggest takeaway from that was Peggy Nose Stevens. What a name. It was a trailblazer indeed. I'm loving kind of diverging a bit from our scotch, our normal scotch programming, because you were learning about so many more influential people within the whiskey industry. Like bourbon is a very much untapped. Like Kentucky, bourbon is very much untapped kind of plane that we haven't yet to really explore Truly right. Hearing her inspirations like I can't wait to dive in and learn more about her.
Pam:Yeah, i mean, i think also, when we started the podcast, we really really only focused on scotch because it was within our comfort zone, and now we're really expanding to all different kinds of whiskey and learning so much about world whiskey And it's really eye-opening and so interesting.
Chelsey:So, yeah, yeah, i know I'm loving it And it's a perfect time to do it too, like just with the expanding, i guess, category of whiskey. Like everywhere you go, like you know, new Zealand is popping out more distilleries Everywhere you go. They're just doing more and more distilleries and they're becoming more. They're just more accessible. They're making amazing things, they're trying new, interesting techniques. Yeah, it's a really interesting time to be into whiskey in general.
Pam:What a time to be alive.
Chelsey:What an age.
Pam:What an age. No, I agree with you, It's great, And you know she did also still touch on a few interesting points there. Like you know, maybe there wasn't a lot of female role models back in the day, but now that is definitely, definitely changing And even with our whiskey, like we mentioned before, you can actively seek out like a mentor and have a role model that you can connect with and help support you. This isn't an advert for our whiskey, by the way, I just really enjoyed my experience with them.
Speaker 6:She's doing such a great job.
Pam:It's genuinely did, yeah, okay we're going to.
Chelsey:We'll head over and chat with Julie, aka RedLiftStickWiskeyDiary. You can find her on, i guess, instagram. She's a friend of ours and let's hear what she has to say about her time in industry.
Speaker 4:Hi, i just want to say a big thank you to the DramFind Whiskey Podcast gals for inviting me. You two are incredible, inspirational women in the whiskey industry. Alright, question one How did you get into whiskey? How did I get into whiskey? What I'll credit my origin story to is about a decade and a half ago. I went to visit a friend in England and he looked at me one day and he said Have you ever tasted whiskey?
Speaker 4:I said yes. He said Have you actually tasted whiskey? So later that day we went to a pub. He orders a whole bunch of whiskeys. He lines them up in front of me. My eyes go wide, i have no idea what's going on. And he told me that he learned how to taste whiskey properly and wanted to share that knowledge with me. So he lined up these whiskeys, lined them up from very light, airy, floral, all the way down to campfire, and I picked up the first glass on the light end I believe it was a pender in actually Welsh whiskey and taught me how to properly nose and taste whiskey. But the first sip I took he said What does that taste like? I said It tastes like whiskey. By the end of this experience, working from light and airy all the way down to really smoky peaty, i was able to start understanding that there are differences and picking out very for rudimentary tasting notes from this very cool lineup. And that sparked that curiosity, the exploration, the joy and presence involved in tasting and exploring the world of whiskey, and for me that's sprung into the entire spirits category, every kind of spirits really. My only regret is that I didn't come back from that trip with more bottles in tow. but you know everywhere I travel, since I always try to come back with something interesting to try.
Speaker 4:Question two What are you drinking right now? Well, full transparency. This is the morning. What am I drinking right now? I am sipping some coffee, but funnily enough, i was reviewing a couple of samples when I first got up. Might not answer your question directly, but I believe it is best to taste and review samples at least once in your tasting or reviewing journey, first thing in the morning, because that's when your nose and palate are most fresh. So I promise I don't endorse chugging whiskey to start your day, whatever floats your boat, but it's something I do often. When I'm reviewing spirits, i'll taste things multiple times and one of those times will be first thing in the morning. So it's like you know a fifth of an ounce or something like that. So what am I drinking right now that I'm excited about? I love Artbeck and I recently picked up a new bottle of Uggadal in my travels because it's difficult to get in my provincial liquor stores, unfortunately for me, but it's a classic in my eyes. So if you haven't had the opportunity to try it, i highly recommend. It's a beautiful, beautiful whiskey.
Speaker 4:Question three What were the challenges? being a woman in the whiskey industry Just existing. So it's not a surprise. Whiskey, the whiskey community, the whiskey world is historically built around generally white siss head men, and that's not to say there aren't incredible men that fit into that category that aren't doing things to actively include women and be strong allies. I'm not saying that for a moment, because that's where this community was rooted in.
Speaker 4:Those assumptions persist. They persist to this day. There are so many common assumptions that I see pop up, either consciously or subconsciously, across brands, content creators, some of whom have tremendous followings, marketing and more right. So common assumptions that women are not educated about whiskey, that women don't like to drink whiskey. That if women do like to drink whiskey, they only prefer whiskey that tastes more sweet in profile or has a low ABV or a low proof, that they need it to be in sugary cocktails. I could go on.
Speaker 4:It's also common to be sexualized in the whiskey world, and I don't necessarily mean that exclusively in the what I call the whiskey community or whiskey fabric. I mean that even if I were to be at a bar sipping on a whiskey neat you know, you invite an energy, whether you would like to engage in that energy or not, of people being overly interested in some cases trying to over explain to you about the thing that you're drinking, even if that's not a conversation you wish to have. But on social media in particular, which is a space I have spent a lot of time in, particularly in the past couple of years through Redlaw whiskey diary, i've seen a lot of women and I don't know what the intention is behind their brand on social media. But I've seen a lot of women overly sexualize themselves, perhaps in hopes of building more of a follower base, because they understand that a lot of whiskey interests come from a particular category of men And unfortunately, i believe it risks reducing credibility if that is the main shtick and the main hook to get people in.
Speaker 4:I say that carefully because I believe in autonomy, that any woman who chooses to express themselves should be able to express themselves in any way they see fit. Whether that aligns to a more sexualized image or something completely beyond that fact, it's none of my business. But knowing and acknowledging the history of where the whiskey history has been, thinking about where we want it to go, understanding and being very conscious of the hurdles. It's difficult to feel good about people who fully play into that, particularly people who have tremendous knowledge or tremendous interest And now in some cases tremendous following and heavily lean into that sexualized image. It's challenging And I'm challenged by that because I sometimes see and feel the negative repercussions of it.
Speaker 4:People will act in a way that is not great behavior towards that creator. That creator won't necessarily call them out, call them in and they invite that attention And then they think it's okay to express that way to another woman who is interested in whiskey. I don't stay silent when it comes to that type of behavior, whether it's the hey, someone's acting out a line and splashing out or even on the assumption basis that I was talking about a couple minutes ago. So I have engaged primarily one to one in DMs, other men who are content creators who have expressed those limiting assumptions, because I don't think it's appropriate And I always see the best in people. I always assume good intent in people, particularly folks in this community, that they just might not know and they've never had this conversation and they have never considered that them expressing an unconscious bias might have negative effects to someone consuming that message. So I engage them and in some cases they don't change their position by the end of the conversation. In some cases they feel really grateful and enlightened and they've learned something and they change their behavior, moving forward. So those are things that are top of mind for me and challenges because it's a community and these communities have so many elements in it whiskey clubs, whiskey tastings, pr and advertising opportunities, education opportunities. They're all interactions, they're all opportunities. So all of these things. So talking about community, community requires people and if we don't bring in more people that are diverse and we're just going to perpetuate the way things have always been and then it will continue to be exactly in that way. So that's why I'm aware and I'm conscious.
Speaker 4:Question 4. How did you overcome them? Well, it's a dualist sword I don't think I've overcome because it's a constant everyday consideration and conversation instead of actions. But what I do in my tiny corner of the universe, my little bubble of the whiskey community, i try to cultivate a safe, diverse space to ask questions, to share tasting notes, to do everything with a wink and a smile, my funny, weird, sensey humor. Everything should be beautiful. This is something that is enjoyable. Whiskey is fun. It shouldn't be taken so seriously. In a way, i'm also very thoughtful about how I present myself, particularly in the context of whiskey. So, yes, i love vintage aesthetic there is a wink and a smile, it is cute, pin-up, curated. But I do try my best to not flaunt and over sexualize my image, particularly in this corner, because I think it's a balance. That's my self and my brand.
Speaker 4:I do my best to put out material that is well researched, that is very thoughtful. My tasting notes I've typically tasted the spirit several times. I don't tend to do any of these things by accident, particularly as a woman in the whiskey community who I'm grateful to have grown a fantastic following and community of people who care what I have to say. Oh, my goodness, believe that. I don't believe it some days, but I don't take that lightly. So I'm very intentional with my words. I'm intentional about the candor I share and I want to make sure that I am playing a small role in challenging the way we think about whiskey, but also the way we think about women in relation to whiskey, because of all the themes and the historical stuff I just talked about. I also believe strongly in challenging the status quo. Hopefully you're getting a sense of that through this conversation, but I tend to be a squeaky wheel and I'd love to see more people within the whiskey community saying these types of things.
Speaker 4:So a couple examples for whiskey clubs. I actually had a conversation with someone who runs a local whiskey club who was wondering oh, how do we get more women? I'm trying, but we're not getting more women membership. So I made some suggestions. Why not encourage more bring a friend opportunities? How can we kind of bust through this small insular bubble of people that we tap into? Maybe that's an opportunity.
Speaker 4:What are some of the hurdles and reasons why women might not be participating in some of these tastings? Could be access. Maybe there are women who do have childcare duties and can't physically be in person at events. Maybe there's an opportunity to offer a diverse modality event, so hybrid events. So maybe some people are tuned in on, you know, through conference, and some are in person. Maybe there are just additional ones that are purely virtual. So access is one piece. How can we keep asking these questions and taking up space and talking about it more on social media?
Speaker 4:So in conversations, even with friends in the whiskey world and whiskey community, i tend to ask and say, hey, do we have any invited guests coming to this event that are women. Who are they? Are there anyone? Is there anyone missing that we should have on the invite list. So I tend to be that squeaky will in that voice in the room, but I'd love to see more of those people being that voice. Imagine the impact of those questions being asked from a man. Those are the things I want to continue seeing happen, and only when that happens and continues to snowball into progress. So I'm glad to see it starting to happen, but there's so much more that we can do for it to turn into marketable change.
Speaker 4:Question five Is there someone in the whiskey industry, past or present, that is an inspiration to you? Yes, there are a lot of incredible whiskey women out there. I'll give you one past and one present. So for the woman of the past, bessie Williamson, she is the only woman to own and run a Scottish distillery in the 20th century which is LaFroyq. And Bessie isn't from Isla, no familial connection to the whiskey industry. So if you haven't read into her story, it's pretty darn cool to see how she was able to come into this role. And our woman of the present, it's got to be Fawn Weaver. Fawn Weaver is the CEO and founder of Grant Sidney Inc. Grant Sidney Inc owns Uncle Nearest, uncle Nearest and Uncle Nearest Whiskey. It honors the world's first known African American master distiller, nearest Green, And that story is very interesting and important. I'm really inspired by the work that Fawn and Co have done to turn that into a very known piece of whiskey history that many of us didn't know about and also an incredibly successful whiskey company. So both in their own right absolute trailblazers, with many more to come on the horizon Big inspiration.
Speaker 4:Question six Are you seeing a shift in attitudes towards women in whiskey? Yes and no. So, as you can imagine, we've come a long way. We've come a long way from the days of Bessie Williams, but I think we can do better. It's great to see more women being included and marketed to, and I firmly believe that we need to keep evolving forward.
Speaker 4:So in some cases that involvement is tokenism, so it's saying, hey, look, we've put a woman front and center of this campaign, but it's once a year, maybe it's for International Women's Day, and then there's also a lot of tolerance in the whiskey community. So even in whiskey clubs or whiskey events, women aren't actively excluded, like, yeah, they can come in, they can book a ticket, but they might not be the ones looped into what and when is happening. There's a lot of tight knit communities that share these events that they're happening. The people bringing people along tend to still be a lot of guys, a lot of men. So how can we expand that bubble further? So tolerance doesn't necessarily equate to progress. So conscious and active inclusion is what we need to move forward with And that's how we're going to see more change and evolution happen in the whiskey world and the whiskey community.
Speaker 4:So a lot of that is asking these hard questions Some I've touched on today, but it's asking the hard questions. So are we actively doing anything to bring women here? Are there things we don't even realize we're doing to hinder their participation? Is there something that's being said? Is there something uncomfortable about this current environment where women don't feel safe or excited to participate? Those are the things that we need to do to shake up the current status quo and continue evolving towards that next phase of whiskey community.
Speaker 4:And I love hearing the conversations that are coming from brands, from people working in PR and brand ambassador ship. I've had a lot of conversations that people saying, hey, we want to actively evolve our voice and feature more women. We want our product to be actively reviewed by more women. We want the conversation to include more. So the more we take up space, the more we're invited consciously to have a seat at the table. That's how we're going to keep shifting the attitude towards women in whiskey, so really appreciate the opportunity. This is a step forward because you're using your platform to feature a humble whiskey nerd who happens to be a woman, Me.
Chelsey:Wow. Julie has first off. what a soothing voice she does.
Speaker 3:I feel like.
Chelsey:I was listening to an audio book.
Pam:Did you not think so?
Chelsey:Yeah, she put me in a trance.
Pam:I love Julie's realness. I really love their talking about the roots of the industry and the common assumptions about women liking lighter whiskeys etc.
Pam:And how women are sexualized just drinking a whiskey at a bar? It's not always invited, it's so true. Some of the things she was saying there I actually really, really kind of was following along with her when she was talking about the sexualized content and social media. She kind of touched on it a little bit, like the risks that of doing that, like you're kind of inviting trolling. I feel personally I'm scared of that because I feel like you're inviting trolling or you're inviting just bullshit into your DMs. I don't want it And it's almost on the same vein as the women sitting at the bar having a drink.
Chelsey:Yeah, i get it. I get it And I know like she said it, she said it with a lot of like, she expressed herself with a lot of her words, very carefully, with a lot of weight, and because I think, at the end of the day, i don't think I don't want to ever insult the way other women present themselves drinking whiskey. You know what I mean. Like I want.
Pam:Of course, and she said that too. She said that too, though. She said, like you know, women do whatever they want to express themselves. Yeah, but it's unfortunate.
Chelsey:It's unfortunate, yeah, it's unfortunate that you welcome a certain type of You invite a certain type of commentary. If that's the intro to, yeah, the whiskey that you're drinking, yeah, i get it. It's one of those things that's easy, so easy to get more engagement if you tap into sexuality. That's just that's fucking. That That's just fucking how the? advertising's always worked.
Speaker 3:Sexualizing women, right, that's just the world.
Chelsey:So I know, you know, we sometimes do it too, you know.
Pam:But I dare you. Do you know what I've had to edit a few boobs in my day of yours? That was an accident, that's true, that was an accident for my god's sake.
Chelsey:Just our anatomy.
Pam:We can't help it. It's there. That was a wardrobe malfunction, yeah, but thank god for Photoshop.
Speaker 3:Anyway.
Pam:Photoshop skills. My god, that was so bad, anyway. So back to Julie. I honestly I like to talk about kind of challenging people in our DMs If they do come drop in there with some sort of inappropriate comment. I think it is important to challenge people who are out aligning whatever way, and she's doing it, she's a force and I appreciate Julie.
Chelsey:Yeah, she's a force. All the women we talked about today or with today are forces as well in the industry, and I'm so glad we were able to connect with them. Yeah, it's been great and I'm so glad I know you, pam, just write it off.
Pam:I know I feel the same and I feel like all these ladies have kind of spoke about, like O number one, diversity and, you know, changing the way this, the whiskey fabric, looks from the outside. I think that's important, those role models and those speakers like seeing people who are like you doing the thing is important.
Chelsey:Yeah, it's powerful. It's a powerful thing to see, subconsciously, Maybe you don't even know it, but if you eventually you know you consistently see that you're going to feel more included and more comfortable in the world period, I think. But yeah, I'm glad we kind of touched upon this topic. I haven't only spoken too much on it in a while, so I'm glad we kind of touched back, Just base, you know.
Pam:Yeah, just tap in with these issues. that aren't completely gone, but you know things are getting better and there's still work to be done, so let's continue. It's a great.
Chelsey:I love the people in this fucking industry. It's part of my. I'm going to have to put a like a raided raiding on this because I've dropped a few F bombs, have I not? I've got a. Oh yeah, do you want to drop on real quick?
Pam:Oh, i've done loads already Oh yeah, you did. Okay, well, just don't notice, because I've always done it but constantly swearing, i know. Well, that's just, it's not very late.
Chelsey:It's like a few dollars.
Pam:Oh it's not, it's not shocking My pearls here.
Chelsey:Okay Well, should we chat? Should we go right back? Let's go. Let's go Revisit the Coleman.
Speaker 5:Oh the whiskey.
Pam:Yeah, well, I've been kind of checking out all the way.
Chelsey:Yeah, You've already. you've finished yours.
Pam:I've got two new people.
Chelsey:Okay, well, first of all, i'm this thank you so much for sharing this, and I you know wherever your mom is out there.
Pam:I hope she she can, she could yeah.
Chelsey:Hi, hey mom, hey mom, thank you for giving this whiskey life. Yes, yes, you know it's opened up. It's actually the I don't want to say stringency, but it kind of like it's mellowed down. It's kind of rounded The maybe any kind of harsh corners a bit after, after kind of letting sit for the past hour don't you think?
Pam:Totally, it's almost sweeter now. It's more catamal, yeah, it's settled into itself.
Chelsey:It's found it's, it's found its footing. So, yeah, that kind of sums it up, but I think, before we we wrap up completely, we have a little bit of, i guess, housekeeping. We have some announcements to make, we have some things we've been up to. We haven't just been neglecting Dram Fine, completely.
Pam:No, we've been expanding into. Well, you know, we have been doing a few events here and there, but we've, we've aimed big this time.
Chelsey:We're going big Go, big baby Go, big go, go, go go.
Pam:That's what they say That's what they say.
Chelsey:And we're doing it, but yeah, yeah, sorry about that.
Pam:Yeah, We are hosting our well. Actually, we should explain that this was actually one of our first major, major goals when we sat down and discussed what we wanted to do with Dram.
Chelsey:Fine, And we're fucking doing it before we feel ready to do it, Just like just like we discussed earlier, just like was prophesized by the ladies before us just now Yeah, we are doing our own. Say with me.
Speaker 3:Whiskey Festival, although it's not.
Chelsey:So it's not. No, that was. That was on time. I think we did it. I'll edit it. We're doing our own Whiskey Festival. It's actually a spirits festival because we want to kind of welcome other spirits, because a lot of these distilleries are doing other things as well. Let's like share the love.
Pam:But we're doing it Wait, take a break there. But also because, no, that's not the only reason we're allowing other spirits there, because we want new people to come.
Chelsey:That's that's what I was getting to.
Pam:Oh sorry.
Chelsey:It's okay. It's okay, let's go. Let's do that again, because I was literally going to say that I'm sorry. To touch upon I was going to say touch upon inclusivity. We wanted to like that. We're talking this whole podcast. Okay, let's just start from the beginning. Let's go from. Okay, let's just start from housekeeping.
Pam:Let's go from Whiskey Festival Okay.
Chelsey:So what are we doing, pam? We'll say it together It's a Whiskey Festival.
Pam:And what's it called? It's called the Street Spirit Festival by Trump. Fane Podcast Yep.
Chelsey:And it's called the Street Spirit Festival, because we're not just doing Whiskey, actually We want to. We want to bring in all spirits, not because, just well, i mean, lots of these Whiskey distilleries are companies, have other amazing products we'd like to show off, but to kind of get back, tie into this whole inclusivity, you know, bringing in different demographics into the Whiskey industry or just the Spirit industry. We wanted to welcome this, this, this. We wanted this festival to be able to be accessible and welcoming for everyone. Maybe that it's not just Whiskey, because Whiskey can still be intimidating for those who don't drink it, right. So there'll be gin, there'll be, there'll be some, you know, non-alcoholic cocktails. There'll be a little bit of everything right, and what else? can tell us a little bit more about it? to Pamela, you've been working hard, yeah.
Pam:I've been working hard, Oh yeah. Well, we are going to do a live podcast on the stage.
Chelsey:Yeah, that's going to be. How do we do that? How do guys come on right in and tell us how do it? How do?
Pam:we do it. Anyone know. My very talented cousin is also coming over from Scotland. She, if you want to make me know she, is a radio host, a voiceover artist, which I think Julie should be. It's failed, by the way.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Pam:And Julie get in here, Be your agent And she's also in a band and stuff And she loves Whiskey. She's just back from the facial performing with her band. Really jiggered a bunch of the disabilities.
Chelsey:I love that. I love the music. I'd love it Really jiggered. It's a great name, love it.
Pam:It's a great name. Yes, she's the perfect MC for our event, and so I'm really excited that she's coming over for it, And we've got some drag performances happening, which we're excited about. I also just think in general, it's really important to support drag, especially right now, so I'm really glad that we're incorporating that into it, and we've got a couple of DJs that are going to be playing as well.
Chelsey:Yeah, so the streets spirits, the first annual, the inaugural street spirit festival festival. I've had too many whispers. So the very first annual street spirit festival is going to be held on July 16th at Emmetton, alberta. So if you are in the area you can check it out, you can check out our platforms, you can literally to our event bright page and please come buy tickets. They're not very expensive, like 30 bucks, and you get all the samples, all the fun. And also it's in the summer, like I know, festival in the summer.
Pam:Hooray, we've got some really great sponsors as well. Yeah, we've got plain FedEx. We just got reflating this morning.
Chelsey:So we're excited to write that We've got some let me Our big Glenmore and G's bridge line distillery out of Calgary We've got some international Boulder spirits Yeah. Boulder spirits Yeah.
Pam:Shelter point. Empress Jen is going to be there, which we love Westland to. oh yeah, and there's actually a couple more, there's more.
Chelsey:There's more We haven't even announced yet. Yeah, we'll announce the rest. Yeah, oh, hanson Distillery too Big up for Hanson Distillery, another local distillery. They're fantastic. They just released their new RTD ready to drink. I can't remember what it's called, i know, oh damn, but anyways it's. I've tried it. It's really good.
Pam:So it's going to be super fun. We've also got like kind of a cool lounge area for people to interact with the brands.
Chelsey:The Chive Lounge.
Pam:Chelsea wants to call it the Chive Lounge. I want to call it the Chive Lounge?
Chelsey:Don't know why?
Pam:Well, Rhymes with Live.
Chelsey:Lounge. I get it, I get it. I think that's like you know, BBC's got their handle on the Live Lounge.
Pam:Yeah, so yeah, the Chive Lounge. So I don't know, we'll just need to get some Chive plants and filter around. I don't know, that's fine, so that'll be really fun. Yeah, and we'll be there. We'll be there. We're talking about just having a great time and try not to panic. Trying to, trying to. Yeah, not freak out, It's going to be great. I'm excited, Actually. Anyway, it's going to be great Me too.
Chelsey:I'm excited. It's going to be here before we know it. So yeah, so, guys, if you're in the area, come down. That'd be great, but otherwise, i guess that wraps up. Should we just recall this? Call this an episode? We did it.
Pam:We did it. It was a good one. I enjoyed it.
Chelsey:Yeah, me too, me too. So that wraps up episode. Oh, eight of season three, we'd like to obviously thank the composer of our theme song This is the life, mr Stuart Bobbin.
Pam:Make sure you subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts and follow DramFing podcast on Instagram.
Chelsey:Goodbye, i guess that's it, that's it, that's it. Let's get out of here. Here we go, all that and all that.
Pam:Did you feel my eyebrows splashing at you? I did, i felt it.
Chelsey:I felt it like a fucking laser beam. Laser beam eyebrows right to my soul.
