In episode 2 of a 4 part conversation with Erika Lenz, Scrum Master, and former poet, evolutionary biologist, and tutor, we discuss the difficulty in collaborating naturally, our similarity to “crazy monkeys”, being a Scrum Master in traditional environments, the great challenge in rewiring the brain at the enterprise level, the battle of the operational patterns – patterns and anti-patterns, artful redirection and Scrum Purists, the fine balance of people and process, temperaments and approaches, the benefits of collective, collaborative thinking, the tendency to keep the people stuff behind the curtain, helping the team to surface their own problems, and managing the work vs. managing the people.