spk_1:   0:00
What do you do on Sundays? Way talked about Cate Blanchett, the act, the costumes, the awards, but mostly Blanchard of it all. I have not acting. Thing is a Erica. This is Sunday's escaped and I'm your host for Todd. Welcome to a new episode off Sundays. We escaped our podcast series about the films of Cate Blanchett. Each week we choose a Kid Blanchett movie and talk about it with a guest in my Guest. This week is the host of the runner up podcasts and writer at Gold Derby. Kevin Jacobsen. Hey, Kevin,

spk_0:   0:49
oh hey Mortada.

spk_1:   0:51
I wasn't going Not

spk_0:   0:53
bad. Interesting week to be talking about this. I don't know. It's just there's a lot going on in the world right now, But let's go back to 2004.

spk_1:   1:03
Yeah, there is a lot going on in the world, and you know, 2004 is when the movie we're talking about took place. So we're talking about Can't Blanche. It's 2015 movie Truth, in which she starred as Mary Mapes, the CBS 60 Minutes producer who ran the story on George Bush's military service during the 2004 election, and that was a big story because the subsequent fallout from it because it wasn't very fighter wasn't verified in the way that it should be. Cost Dan Rather his job as an anchor. It's CBS, and Mary herself was fired. This movie came out the same years Carol, so she had Caroline Truth. And actually, it came. Even so, Carol started its journey in Cannon May. This movie made it to theaters a couple of months or a month and 1/2 before Carol did in October of 2015 and it is written and directed by James Vanderbilt, who rode Zodiac and produced another Kate movie. Subsequent to this, the house was a clock on its walls but is also known as the writer of the Amazing Spider Man movies.

spk_0:   2:15
What a resume!

spk_1:   2:17
It's a very strange principle. Yeah, it's like as if they as if it's a salad. And he's like, Let me pick one from here one from here, one from there. And I'll may this career salad, sir, although this movie kinda wants to be Zodiac because it is about it's about the journalistic procedure like that. There is an investigation. There is. It's about the procedure of how they how the story came together and then how the fallout happened. And in that way, it's similar to Zodiac,

spk_0:   2:53
Yes, but perhaps inferior.

spk_1:   2:57
Yeah, definitely. I would agree that it is inferior Know. So let's start generally with sort of just like your impressions about the film. How do you feel about it?

spk_0:   3:07
I think that's truth is first of all titles too vague, too vague. But I think the film itself is kind of average overall. I don't think it's a mad film by any means, but I just sort of can't help but feel like other choices could have been made that would have made this a little bit more biting and sort of incisive than it actually is. Andi. I also do think that it has a great misfortune to be coming out not on Lee at the same time as Spotlight, which is again sort of superior in many ways, but also to come out around the same time as Carol as well. You know, in both respects it's sort of overshadowed by films and performances that are some of the best examples of like, you know, journalism on film and also on the other hand, one of Kate's very best performances in Carroll. And because of that, it was very much overshadowed. But I do. I can't say that despite a very low box office for truth, I did actually see this film in theaters. So I was one of the one of the few and the brave ventured out to see this film about journalism in theaters. I think there was, like, four people total in the in the movie theater with me. But, um,

spk_1:   4:30
I also saw it in theaters. So yes, way are the brave, the few You're right. Yes,

spk_0:   4:39
and I don't know. I mean, I was very interested in at the time because I mean, I was on the campus newspaper at at my college, and we actually had the great fortune of having Dan Rather come by on his lake speaking tour, and he he met us at the newspaper. And so I got meet meet a very big journalistic hero, and so, like, after that, I was very invested in him as an entity, and, uh so I ventured out because of him and also because of Cate Blanchett's Who I will sort of probably like you, Murtada, See any movie that she's spin? Really? Absolutely. Yeah, no matter how middling at my end up being. But ultimately I came away just sort of feeling like I'm interested in this subject, But it could have been executed better, I suppose.

spk_1:   5:31
Yes. So when you met Dan Rather and came, he came to school. Was it? After this happened, a story in the movie happened.

spk_0:   5:40
This was in 2013 when he came around. So about nine years after the scandal of it all, but it's really interesting, Um, you know, just meeting him and then seeing how Robert Redford portrayed him in this, I think there's I think, Robert Redford, even though he's not exactly doing, like a perfect imitation of Dan Rather. I think he really captures the spirit well,

spk_1:   6:06
and you met him in real life, so you would know. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0:   6:10
He does have that, like, that gravitas and that dignity to him that you just feel like he is kind of that father figure that he ends up being for Kate Blood Chapman for so many others.

spk_1:   6:21
Yeah. I mean, I have no recollection of them. Rather, I never watched the news when he was doing it so But I get like, gravitas is something that is associated with him. Yeah, but Kate doesn't play Dan Rather. She plays Mary Mapes and Mary Mapes. This movie is based on Mary Mapes, his book, The book is Cold, Truth and Duty, The Press, the President and the Privilege of Power and I Agree with you. The title is very big, and maybe they could have called the truth and duty or something or the privilege of power. Even that would have been.

spk_0:   7:00
I like that that's punching

spk_1:   7:01
like that. Get his introduced immediately. So the move. She is the center of this movie. As listeners have listened to this broadcast know, sometimes she's not the center of a lot of movies. She just makes movies that she likes, those people that she likes. And sometimes they're about the character she plays, and sometimes they're not. And this movie is one that is about the character she plays. She is the center holding this film with her performance, so she's introduced immediately at the beginning off the story in the sort of flashback set up scene where Mary Mapes has shown hiring a lawyer who's going to represent her during an internal of instigation that CBS is doing at the time to find out what went wrong. I'm the producer. I put the team together. I might have something for the election. The president of the United States may have gone AWOL from the military. I do not get to do this. They do not get to smack us just for asking the question. What I liked about this movie is someone who loves Kate that I love, that she is the person who you're always watching. This is the movie that made it to theaters first, I think after Blue Jasmine. So when this came out and people saw this again, Blue Jasmine was in a lot of people's minds. And that was another movie that was great and she was the center of it. So when I was researching and reading reviews at the time, almost every critic somehow mentioned Bullet asked me, which to me is very funny, because when you look at this performance and when you look at these two characters, they're nothing alike. The only thing that they have in common is that Max on drinking heavy. She's shown drinking wine. And, you know, Jasmine wasn't into wine at all. She was all about stolen martinis. So? So it's funny how people get into their mind about things just because of recency bias?

spk_0:   9:01
Well, yeah. I mean, I think she does have a little bit of that sort of neuroticism about her, but yeah, they're two very, very different characters. Yeah, um,

spk_1:   9:13
different performances to like this. Mary Mapes is a professional woman. And the story is about what happened to her at her job. Like the movie as the part. The first part of it, which is the procedure of how they got the story and how they followed it and how they found the witnesses and how they interviewed them is about a journalist doing their job. So this is where Cade gets to be forthright, and she gets to be excited, and she gets to be animated as a person doing their job. And then the second half of the movie is about the fallout from that. And then this is where you see this person who is the breadwinner for her family gets to grapple with the fact that she might lose her job. And what is she going to do and how this she fired back or not and how she does it. And you know, the movie is based on Mary Mapes, his book. So it's a very flattering portrayed. So she, of course, she fights back. She fights back, she becomes stronger, you know? And you get Kate doing that and how amazing it is that Kate gets to play you. Mary Mapes. You're one lucky person. I

spk_0:   10:20
know I would be so honored. So

spk_1:   10:24
what did you think of the performance, Kevin?

spk_0:   10:26
Well, I think she's very good, you know, I don't think she's fantastic. I don't consider this necessarily one of her best performances, but I do just find her as an actress to be so compelling. Tow watch, you know, just the choices. She makes her voice, her body language, and it feels like she always put so much thought into every character she plays. And I think that, you know, she really just becomes this character, and you can tell that she put a lot of thought into it. You know, this can. This can be a kind of role that is stereotyped a lot in films about journalism, of sort of the crazy, workaholic female journalist who will do anything to get the story. But I think she finds some interesting layers to her without making her too weak or too shrill or two strong are, you know, and any of those things. It's a very deceptively complicated performance, I think, that she doesn't get enough credit for because the film around her isn't necessarily as great as she is.

spk_1:   11:34
You know, I think I agree with what you're saying, and I think the scene that sort of captures all that. What you were talking about is it's later in the movie when she is in front of the She's with her lawyer in front of the panel that's investigating her, and she also yeah, and she gets to deliver a monologue, which is basically the C. C's of the film, basically saying, You know, nobody wants to talk about the actual story, which was whether George Bush dodged military service or not. They want to talk about fonts and forgeries, and she goes on to explain sort of what Mary's is dealing with and gives us what the movie has been trying to tell us. for an hour and 1/2 before that. And it is a very fantastic scene because of her performances, cameras just on her. And she's going off at the cuts. Yeah, you know, she's going over these men across the table, and this is where you know, it's somebody who likes get You're like, all right, this is where seen the sea And yes, that scene where you know we need to cheer Our story was about whether Bush fulfilled his service. Nobody wants to talk about that. They want to talk about fonts and forgeries and conspiracy theories, because that's what people do these days. If they don't like a story, they point and screen that question your politics, your objectivity, health, your basic humanity. And they hope to God the truth gets lost in the scroll. And when it is finally over and they have kicked and shouted so loud, we can't even remember what the point Waas. But you didn't prove it. You didn't prove Ben Barnes got the president into the guard. You didn't prove the memos. A. Really. The burden of proof is on you. By that standard, the Times would never run the Pentagon papers the Post would never listen to deep throwing. Barnes is hardly Deep Throat. Ben Barnes has confessed to abusing his power to keep some of the richest. The most privileged sons of Texas within their ass is blown up in Vietnam from his maids. Don't you think it's possible? Just possible. But some of those fine young, privileged men, as you call them, got into the National Guard on their own merit. No, sir, no, I do not

spk_0:   14:08
great seed. And you could really see that Just all the frustration that has been building up in her just kind of comes out there, but still, in a way that not to the extent that she is flying off the handle, you know, it's she's making a lot of very smart points. And it's so interesting because that is for me, that is. The most interesting element of the film is how it examines how this one key part of the reporting, which is obviously a huge part of it. But that one part ultimately comes to sort of discredit a lot of the reporting overall that had been done on Bush's military service because you could sort of point to that and be like, Oh, see, that's an example of how they're just trying to go after Bush. And it's a reelection. And, you know, it's like a hit job, and none of this has merits. But really, there is. There is. It's like they're missing the forest through the trees sort of thing. Yeah, where? You know, you're focusing on this one little detail and harping on it and harping on it, but they're still a grander point to the story that is being lost. So I find that to be the most interesting element of the film that is explored really beautifully in the end.

spk_1:   15:28
And I think what you said earlier about maybe the film around her not being a strong is the performance is both What is great about this scene and what's not great about the movie? Because you get one scene where you tell me everything you want to tell, and you give Blanche it a great showcase off a scene to deliver this performance. But where was that in the rest of the money,

spk_0:   15:54
right? Something we were waiting for. But then it just comes with the idea. I know.

spk_1:   15:59
Yeah, but if we go back to talking about the procedure itself. And once the fallout happens and people start questioning the veracity of the investigation of Mapes, and then rather, they bring back their main witness, who is played by Stacy Keach was a colonel in the Army who gave them the document in the first place, And that is also another scene that I really loved. So they have to re interview him on camera. But the dynamics of the relationship between Mary Dan and this guy have changed because he saw he lied to them, and even though they had promised him that they wouldn't bring him or interview him on camera, they're doing that now. And they're under a lot of corporate pressure from C. B s to sort of make him the fall guy, even though they both think of him as an upstanding person as somebody they want to protect. And so the scene plays. It's actually the TV interview. Dan Rather and this guy are on camera, and Kate, as Mary Mapes and another actor who plays basically their boss in CBS, are trying to control the interview from behind the scenes on I Love this scene because it sort of shows you how TV interviews work but also shows you the different allegiances and priorities and the corporate Mackey nations. There's a lot happening in the scene. Everybody in the scene has a different priority. Wants to do something different. Mary Mapes wants to protect Dan first and the witness, second her boss that CBS doesn't care about anybody except CBS and maybe her own job. Dan Rather is sort of like, Kinda doesn't know you don't know where he is, but he's definitely on the side of being nice to his witness. The witnesses wife is also in the bag Brown, and she's the one who who marry, convinced that she will protect her husband. And now she sees that that's not happening. So it's such a good scene because there's so many things happening in it.

spk_0:   18:16
Yes, it's it's very dynamic. Yeah, I just love all of the like, the little notes that they're passing Dan, that the CBS corporate person is handing to him just to make sure that he gets more definite statements saying, like, Why did you lie to us basically, instead of what Dan is doing, which is sort of trying to make the interview flow more smoothly in a way that the witness is comfortable. And that's kind of part of what Dan Rather does is to sort of give that sort of integrity and that friendship of just like you can rely on me. Thio. I just have this discussion. But, you know, obviously there are forces around him that air forcing him to do other things. And so, yeah, fantastic scene, absolutely. And I think that is actually where to speak to Robert Redford again. It's one of his best scenes because he's navigating so much. And, you know, also, you know, Mary Mapes is also doing the same thing because she's like the go between between both of them, where she's trying to please the corporate. And she's tryingto please, Dad and make sure it all goes smoothly. Yeah, totally. A great, fantastic, fantastic scene. Yeah,

spk_1:   19:32
So James Vanderbilt wrote to great scenes. Yeah, and the rest of it happened. Yeah, So we talked about Kay and we talked about Robert Redford, but the movie is really it's about the investigation, but the B story sort of is Mary Mapes. His relationship is Dan rather cause when they show her with her family, they show her dad as this alcoholic who was abusive when she was growing up. And that film tries to hammer that. Dan Rather is her father. There is a very bad scene. Where in a plane Elizabeth Smalls and Dennis Quaid, who are part of the investigative team run by Mary, try to tell us that it's just exposition. They tell us exactly what I just told you, right? It makes no sense.

spk_0:   20:21
Yeah, this feels really forced in. Just this idea. We want to give her more of a personal life. We want to explain how she got to the point that she is now. It's just completely unneeded, I would argue. And the way that they try to force it as if to say, Oh, her horrible father, she has that relationship with with him. And then Dan Rather is operating as this father figure. What purpose does this serve? Really?

spk_1:   20:47
It doesn't serve anything. And like if you wanted to show, is the report between his colleagues as people who respect each other speak as human beings. There is a very good scene later on, where after it all happens. He comes basically to tell her that he'll have to apologize for the story. And in that scene, you see, you see that report between them, maybe not in what the script is giving them to say. They're just pouring each other drinks and talking, but in the performance of Redford and Blanche it in that scene, you see the years of respect and love between these work colleagues who have been through it all. And even though this feels like bigger than anything that they've been through, the respect and love for each other is still there. So the the extras could have done it. James Random Bill. You didn't need to get a position

spk_0:   21:35
because then you also have another scene where her father is like calling some news outlet and openly just bashing her, his own daughter. They get on the phone and it's a whole thing, and it's just at I don't know, it's again completely unnecessary.

spk_1:   21:51
Absolutely. So we talked about Kate and Robert. We think they were very good together. That chemistry there is really good. They know they play off each other well, most of their scenes together, a sharp and they just flow. Well, what are the chances you have something alcoholic in there? Better than average. How long have we known each other? Jesus isn't that bad. They're going to start an investigation. And CBS wants to report an independent panel too. Take a look at how the story is put together, and I'm gonna announce it tomorrow. I apologize for the story on air. Andrew asked you to apologize. He didn't ask. Damn, that's is surrender. Ever since Burkett changed his story, Handra feels a CBS can't afford the risk to us reputation. God, he knew even before we went down there, just wanted to get Terri. You gotta promise me. Stop worrying about me. Well, that's not gonna happen. You gotta protect yourself now. What did you think of the other actors? There is Elizabeth Moss. Then it's wait until for grace. They sort of form the three other people in the small team that Mary manages.

spk_0:   23:20
Yeah, um, not great. I mean, Elizabeth Moss is has now really become one of our most celebrated actresses, right? Yeah, and seeing her in a role like this, where she's basically just in the role of like the Ellen Page and inception of Just Speak Like I'm Dumber than everyone around me. I'm gonna ask several questions and ask as the audience surrogate and not really even show my own journalistic. You know anything? She's just there to ask questions like, Why is that? And who in what?

spk_1:   24:00
The script doesn't serve her at all. She suffers the most

spk_0:   24:04
truly. Yeah, and I mean toe for Grace. I don't know how we feel about him as an actor overall, but didn't really work for me, especially in that one very cringe worthy scene. And I know you know what I'm talking about. Where he is sort of lamb bass stick against the corporate leaders that, like, Hey, Viacom, you wantto be includes with them. And it's all conflicts of interest yada, yada, yada doing sort of like what? Mark Ruffalo doesn't spotlight, basically. But, you know, in that movie it's a little better.

spk_1:   24:42
And also, you know, it's another monologue scene, and when you have in the same movie, that scene was still for Grace and then Kate doing her monologue. It's just like he has no chance.

spk_0:   24:53
No, I know. Yeah, he's fine, but just not really up for that sort of task. And Dennis Quaid sort of wasted. It just feels like there wasn't a lot of thought put into the team around her. Or maybe there was, and it was just cut out because you didn't really need that much. But also, like, there's that scene at the end where Dennis Quaid and Toe for Grace are They're both fired or resigned and they, like, have a handshake and sort of like, Hey, you know, your your hippie scum and your Jarhead or whatever. You know, they have their little red part table. Yeah, as if to say, like these two have been odds for this whole movie. And now here they are, coming together. But like that wasn't even address that much earlier in the film. Like we don't have any idea what their relationship was. Really?

spk_1:   25:43
Yeah. No, you're right. It just comes out of nowhere as if these people we need to care about this friendship or that we saw this friendship develop over the movie.

spk_0:   25:52
I don't know. It just feels like there was some sort of interference here. I don't know if it was a studio thing or just

spk_1:   26:01
what it was. Movie was too long and they decided, like to concentrate on Kate? Probably. I think you know, this movie was shot in Australia to accommodate Kate, who was living there at the time. So all these American actors actually flew to Australia. But what it afforded being in Australia is that a lot of the cast and crew where Australian and I think I really love no need Hazlehurst, who plays a secure his wife, Nikki Bearcat. It's a small part inch, but it's she has one dynamite. It's not even a scene. It's one dynamite moment where, after Mary Mapes completely dozen, rise up to her promises of protecting the witness. So no, no, no Hazlehurst as his wife comes in and to tell her off. It's basically Mary, You failed. You said You're not going to do this. And now he's sick and you're blaming him. You're making him the full guy. It's such a dynamite scene. I loved her so much in that one little moment. And of course, she has played. Of course, she has work to escape before she has played her mother in little fish from 2005.

spk_0:   27:08
I agree. That's another another case of someone just making so much of just a little bit of screen time. It feels like one of those moments that sometimes you get in these kinds of. I don't know if you could call this thriller, but, you know, just like the either news or political or legal dramas where you're interacting with people's real lives and you see the other side of it. And you see this person being like they feel like they've been so greatly affected by this and they didn't really ask for this. And so that, yeah, I agree. That's again making the most of a very, very limited part. And really, she makes a bigger impression than people like Topher Grace and Elizabeth Moss and Dennis Quaid so good for her.

spk_1:   27:54
Yeah, we'll have a much bigger parts. So Kevin, you're the host of and The Runner Up is, which is a podcast about the Oscars. And so we have to talk about awards. This movie premiered at Tiff in 2015. It was greeted very relative reviews. We're really positive, and everybody talked about Kate's performance and for a while, like between tiff and until the movie was actually released. Everybody was talking about which movie will Kate Bland should be nominated for? Because this movie actually came up before Carol. So even though Carol was already reviewed, it can. From May. I've seen Cara early. I was lucky to see it early at one of those building but screening before it even went to Cannes. So I was always very like you. People are crazy because once you see both movies, there is just no way that she's going to be nominated for truth over Carol. But when you think of that small window about a war,

spk_0:   28:55
well, yeah. I mean, I just remember that being a huge year for Cate Blanchett overall, that there was that she was always getting in for something, and it quickly became that it would be Carol. But, you know, she also had Cinderella that year. I mean, that was ah, big year for Katie.

spk_1:   29:12
You have people been saying she will. She should get a supporting nomination for Cinderella.

spk_0:   29:16
Yeah, which? I mean, I wouldn't have minded I liked her in that, um but yeah, I just Ultimately, there was so much buzz overall for Carol, and there was so much built up because, I mean, at least for me, it didn't come out and in my neck of the woods until late December. So this felt like it was all building up to this one. Big performance. Yeah. Once the box office receipts came out, it was pretty clear that truth was not going to happen. Even though it is a very baby type of performance that arguably that kind of thing would get in more than what she doesn't. Carol. So it's an interesting twist of fate there, but yeah, just from the quality of the films themselves, too, just how enchanting she is. And Carol compared to this, where she's still very good. But just not anywhere like this is a This is a special Cate Blanchett performance, you know, that's had no chance.

spk_1:   30:21
And there was even a time when people were talking about how she's gonna go supporting for Carol to go lead for truth and get Dr eliminated. Yeah, which good on her and her management. And that she didn't do that?

spk_0:   30:33
No. Oh, yeah. Which again? I mean, I don't even know if she would have even gotten in for lead if she had actually done that, you

spk_1:   30:43
probably wouldn't. I think you're right about one thing. Once the box office came out and nobody cared about this movie, nobody saw it to see it. It just became very clear that it's gonna be about Carol. But my question is because to your point, you said This is probably baby er than Carol and we've seen these sort of movies that are around an actor usually invest actress, and it's just the performance. Everything else is not up to part of the performance, and they do get nominated. The wife is one. Still, Alice is another. But you know, those movies, I think, did better box office and maybe they were better received than this. But I don't know if it was the one Kate Blanchett movie Post Blue Jasmine coming out in 2015. Would there have been more supportive for it instead of like Oh, this is fine. Carol is coming in six weeks.

spk_0:   31:37
I mean, maybe I think, um, one thing, though, is that you know, she had won two Oscars at this point and she had what, six nominations already. And so I sort of don't know if there would have even been that much of, ah dr to get her nominated again so soon after, even though there tends to be like that afterglow nomination that people get. But yeah, I don't know. It just was a really bad combination of all of those elements. And even if you take all of those out, honestly, let's just say there was no Carol. There was no Cinderella. Even there was maybe even know spotlight. I still sort of think this film would just get lost in the shuffle over ologists because it again didn't do anything box office wise, and the reviews were middling. There was even some controversy with it with CBS that they wouldn't air any ads for the film. And Les Moonves says the president at the time just didn't want to condemn it publicly, but was opposed to it. Essentially,

spk_1:   32:44
I mean, CBS is not shown very positively in this movie. No, you are listening to Sunday's escaped the podcast series about the films of Cate Blanchett. Don't miss the three part miniseries about her Oscar winning performance in Blue Jasmine. Three episodes, three guests, three perspectives in Part one. We discuss Cate Blanchett as the real oh tour of Blue Jasmine and the many ways her performance makes her the author of the film. In Part two, we talk about the similarities to Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Desire, the character of Blanche Dubois. Clearly the blueprint for Jasmine, the many actresses who played Blanche, or where inspired by her, from the women in Pedro Almodovar's movies to Jenna Rowlands in Woman Under the Influence to most recently Carrie Mulligan in Wildlife and in the third and final part way discuss Jasmine and her sisters, Anne Whole Helen Sinclair in Bullets Over Broadway, Maria Elena in Vicky, Cristina Barcelona and Cecilia in the Purple Rose of Cairo, among others. All these episodes are now available wherever you listen to podcasts or at Sunday's was kate dot com. If you're enjoying the podcast, please rate and review. Now back to Sunday's escaped. One other thing I wanted to talk about is like, since it's based on Mapes, his book, Did you feel that it was very one sided? And even if it is sometimes like with some stories, that's fine. If it's one sided, did we need to hear the other side in this case, the other side being CBS or I don't know, the Republican Party. I don't even know who is at the other side.

spk_0:   34:37
Yeah, right. I mean, I think it very much does lionize these journalists as sort of thes, even though they work at 60 minutes, they still feel like underdogs. And so there's a natural routing factor there.

spk_1:   34:52
They're not presented as actual corporate people. They're presented as they have to make corporate happy,

spk_0:   34:59
even though also, they did make this very massive mistake, you know? Yeah. Yes, we do have those forces that do oppose these characters, but because the film is set up this way, we do naturally sympathize with Mary and the rest of this team of journalists. But for me, at least, I sort of struggle with, yeah, how it does come off a little one sided, sometimes with its approach. Even if I think that again, there's something really interesting at at the heart of the film, which was that idea of, like we were talking about how people could focus on this one element of the story, even though there's a broader story that at the end of the day is a interesting enough discussion to where I'm a little bit more forgiving of the fact that there's very little three dimensional opposition in the film. It feels like there isn't really both sides here, but also I sort of don't mind it at the same time. I don't know. It's hard to explain

spk_1:   36:00
if they had taken that nugget that you are talking about and made the movie about that and more dynamic with that idea. Maybe this would have been interesting. Which brings me a multitude, just the filmmaking style of James Vanderbilt. He has no style. The movie just It looks fine. It could have been an actual CBS procedural that shows on Wednesday night at 9 p.m.

spk_0:   36:26
Yeah, not not even cable broadcast network level of production value here.

spk_1:   36:32
Yes, so it's very surprising that he got this movie green lit with him as a writer director. Yes, he wrote Zodiac. Yes, he rode the Amazing Spider Man. Both of those those movies were successful. Zodiac is a great movie because of David Fincher's direction, but his script is also good. We're not gonna shortchange him, and this script could have been good. It's not as good a Zodiac. This script, it's fine. It's not great. We already talked about that, but I'm just surprised he managed to get this green lit and managed to get Cate Blanchett and Robert Redford to star in it. Is it because, you know, we talked about the the salad of his career and he has done so many things produced here and wrote here and directed on Lee this movie so far. Do you have any ideas why he managed to get this green letters? A director.

spk_0:   37:19
He is a male in Hollywood, so that tends to help out. You know, he definitely followed the the sort of template of guys we see who write a movie that is very critically acclaimed. It is more of an indie, but then he's working with David Fincher. It's certainly bore but Andy and then goes to work. Hey, here's years, you know, here's the Spider Man franchise that you could now, right? And then, you know, proving himself just as someone who could do Indies and someone who could. I I hesitate to say that he could pull off like a blockbuster successfully because of the Spider Man. Movies were not exactly the best EST, but his past with Zodiac, I'm, I'm sure, certainly helped. And also the fact that he is a Vanderbilt. Let's let's just get that out

spk_1:   38:10
of the

spk_0:   38:10
way. It is part of a very, very wealthy family that's you know he has some pull in. Some resource is to him.

spk_1:   38:19
That's how he managed to do it. You're absolutely right.

spk_0:   38:23
Well, this was just another thing that I believe was also mentioned on the on our friends at this hot Oscar buzz podcast. When they talked about truth. I wonder how much that sort of worked as a limited Siri's instead of just as a two hour film, because I think you could get into a lot more of the procedure. And also the themes that we were talking about that on Lee really appear in the end. And also, I almost wonder if you could even extend it out, have more of us getting to know Mary through her investigation into Abu Ghraib, almost, you know, going through that whole journey and how she would eventually win a Peabody for it and then make it almost like a riel epic, sort of rise and fall situation where she gets so much acclaim for this breakthrough story, and then she has the momentum to then follow it up with this. What we see, in truth. And then you see the very rapid decline of her career. I think that would be sort of an interesting little limited. Siri's. Maybe maybe on FX,

spk_1:   39:36
I mean, the Abu Grapes story. I guess it maybe they didn't do it because it has no dramatic tension. It's just it was a story dated everything right? They broke. And they want a Peabody. There is no tension, but but just to do the procedure similar to spotlight, which was also a story that mostly they did everything right. But there is the procedure. There was interesting.

spk_0:   40:02
I don't know. What do you think? Do you think this works better as just a film, or would you have preferred them to expand it out more?

spk_1:   40:08
I mean, the one thing that I pause that is I didn't want to see any more of any of these people. That's no gate is wig. Benry. Mapes, I was just, like, two hours. I'm okay. This is about the right.

spk_0:   40:26
You make a good point.

spk_1:   40:28
But if you're listening to the spot cast your fan of Cate Blanchett. You liked her movies. I would say this is a movie that if you find it on cable, if you want to stream it at home, yeah, you'll have. You know, there is a very good performance holding the center of it on that performances by Kate. So by all means watch truth.

spk_0:   40:48
Yeah, I'd say it's worth it for her and her alone and a little bit of Robert Redford

spk_1:   40:54
yet No, Robert Arvid is very good and their report together. So I want to ask you questions by Cate Blanchett like we do on Sundays of Escape. Do you remember the first time you saw Cate Blanchett in a movie?

spk_0:   41:19
I believe so, yes. I can't say for sure, but well, I'm 29 So I can't really say that I was watching things like Elizabeth and even the talented Mr Ripley at that time because I was, like, eight or nine. Maybe I wasn't ready for it. I think probably my first interaction with Cate Blanchett was the first Lord of the Rings film. That was just a very powerful moment for me watching this actress who I hadn't really seen that much of before be the sort of ethereal, mystical spirit, otherworldly kind of performance there. You know what I mean? That's that. I was just kind of entranced by it.

spk_1:   42:00
And are you still entranced by her all these years

spk_0:   42:03
later? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I I see most of her movies. The guy I saw Where'd you go, Bernadette? In theatre. So

spk_1:   42:11
you and seven other people? Yeah.

spk_0:   42:14
So I feel like, yeah, she just does have that steps screen presence about her that I still find so captivating all these years later, I do too. Hanieh, this podcast. I would hope so. If you start a podcast about her,

spk_1:   42:32
what's your favorite Cate Blanchett performance?

spk_0:   42:34
You've definitely heard less flooding of times before, but it is Carol for May. It's Yeah, it's just it combines so many things that make her great again the alluring quality of her, the fact that she has that sort of towering presence and also that hint of vulnerability that you don't expect that that sneaks in That just sort of breaks your heart. And that's, you know, clearly a film that I responded to greatly and still just treasure. I hope that that is a performance that will come to be known as one of her absolute. At least top five performances

spk_1:   43:16
are sure it's an unimpeachable performance and also just such a great film, like she has made great films. But maybe this with Carol. It was a combination of a great performance and a great film coming together. And also she is without doubt the center of it, because she has made great films where they're not really about her character. Yeah,

spk_0:   43:37
and it was immediately felt like something a little bit different that we hadn't seen as much from her. Just a lot more of a vulnerability.

spk_1:   43:46
And, you know, she somebody who's known for her glamour. So in Carol she brought that in that glamour that you see her in like the red carpet and in her real life and just in her other screen performances and gave it you know, that vulnerability you talked about?

spk_0:   44:03
Yes, that is beautiful coats. How

spk_1:   44:07
so? Is there a movie where you thought Kate was underrated, like a movie that maybe you like that other people don't mention as much.

spk_0:   44:17
Um, I mean, I would say that she's pretty properly rated in most things that you know. She's typically praised for almost everything she does, at least at this point in her career. But I guess I would say one that I still think she deserves a little more credit for is the curious case of Benjamin Button. I respond to that film a little more than most people. Um, I know that people consider it one of the lesser of David Ventures filmography, but I just found that character to be so tricky to play for her. And I think she has an interesting chemistry with Brad Pitt, especially in that mid the middle sequence where they're meeting in the middle of their ages. I was a little bit surprised that she didn't get a little more awards buzz for that.

spk_1:   45:06
You mentioned how tricky that part is, and we talked about that. We already did an episode on Benjamin Button, and we talked about how tricky that part is and how it's multifaceted. But people only maybe see Daisy is just the girl in Benjamin's life. So listeners, if you want more about Benjamin Button, listen to that show. Yeah. And

spk_0:   45:29
also, she has to pull off all that old age makeup at

spk_1:   45:32
one point on. Do the voice. The old person voice, right? It is

spk_0:   45:37
a mouthful of cotton. Yeah,

spk_1:   45:40
it is totally underrated. Who's your favorite? Cate Blanchett scene partner.

spk_0:   45:47
Who? Yeah, I mean, she she she has She has a lot of good one. She she can have chemistry with anyone. Could have chemistry with a lamp. But, I mean, is it standard to say, Rooney, Mara, at this point, probably

spk_1:   46:06
That's the most common answer to that question. But it's also such it's also the right answers, so

spk_0:   46:11
yeah. So I I was tryingto I was trying to be a little more, uh, creative with that, but I just can't really think of any any time where she was better on screen with someone than she was. A little Rooney. Mara,

spk_1:   46:25
They're great together. And now they're gonna be in the Gamma Delta Rho Nightmare Alley.

spk_0:   46:31
I know. Just juicy. Can't wait.

spk_1:   46:34
Hopefully they'll have lots of scenes together in that

spk_0:   46:38
Yes, and same sort of period, right? Yeah.

spk_1:   46:41
Yeah. It is a rather the same time when carol is set. Totally. You're right. Those pictures from the set kind of could have been the sequel to Carol. Because I know you have a long way Gore something or a wig that looks very similar.

spk_0:   46:56
Yes. Cannot wait. Oh, my God.

spk_1:   47:00
Who would you like to see her work with?

spk_0:   47:02
I am interested in seeing her explore more of that dark side to her. And so the obvious one that comes to mind for me is just your roast lamb thermos, you know? Yeah, Just in some sort of ah, favorite esque sort of film that really favors. You know, actresses, actress thing.

spk_1:   47:24
You know, she was the first choice for the Rachel vice role, but right, could any schedules work?

spk_0:   47:32
Well, let's let's try to make something happen, because I feel like she lends herself so perfectly to that twisted style sort of thing. Yeah, I

spk_1:   47:43
want to see that. Your goods? What are you doing next? Do what

spk_0:   47:46
kind of shit movie I also thought of just like other types of I mean, I guess you know, Guillermo Del Toro is now working with her. So there's that and also I This is sort of out of left field, but I would like a David Lynch collaboration. I don't know how that would work, but again, she has a little bit of that supernatural otherworldliness to her sometimes. But I'm sure David Lynch could use her for something like,

spk_1:   48:16
Yeah, the thing with David Lynch and Kate is that he already has actresses in her age range that he works with you during the Naomi Watts. So that's probably why they haven't worked together.

spk_0:   48:27
That's that's true. This is true. I also thought of Jane Campion. Possibly again. Maybe. Maybe a costume drama, maybe a darker film, something like the piano. I mean, I don't know.

spk_1:   48:38
So you want to see Cate Blanchett in a dark film?

spk_0:   48:41
I really do. I think that's that's clear at this point, just cause she she does have that that thing about her that is like a inner darkness that I think could come out that would be really forceful and powerful with with her screen presence.

spk_1:   48:59
I like that answer. I and I want to see her in a dark movie, too. You've convinced me, Thank you so much given for coming on Sundays. We skate and talking about truth, and before we go please let our listeners know where they can find you and your work.

spk_0:   49:14
Well, you could find me on Twitter at Kevin underscored Jacobson and my podcast. And the runner up is that Twitter is at Oscar runner up. And just to delve into a little bit of what we do there is that we talk about what I consider to be the best picture runner up in each Oscar year, and we're already we're going backwards, just like Benjamin Button. We're going backwards, and we've got the forties right now. I just recorded an episode with Murtada here talking about a letter to three wives. So if you want to hear more of our lovely banter, you can listen to that, um and yeah, right with you. Deprive wherever you find. Ah, find that which is on every broadcast platform. Yeah.

spk_1:   50:02
I want to ask you about your podcast. What year did you start? So because you said no, you are in the forties. What year did you start with?

spk_0:   50:08
I started with 2017 and I recorded that a few weeks after those Oscars had happened. Which was we first talked about three billboards outside having Missouri and Yeah, it's been 70 so 70 or so episodes later and we're almost at the beginning of the Oscars.

spk_1:   50:30
You have decades of history. Top talked about that thought. Gas. Congratulations. That's great.

spk_0:   50:37
Yes, thank you so much. And again, you can find that anywhere you confined podcasts. I'm generally on pretty much every platform. At this point. I think

spk_1:   50:47
it's great. Podcast. Give it a listen on great review, and the runner up is great and review Sundays Escape to and you can find me on Twitter at m E, Underscore says, and follow the palace cast off Instagram and Twitter at Sunday's escape and until next time, thank you for listening.