The Last Music Podcast
The Last Music Podcast
The Last Music Podcast: Andy Irvine ~ Devoted
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In this episode, Last Music founder Malcolm Mills sits down with Andy Irvine to talk about his upcoming album, "Devoted" out 4th September, a distinctly Irish re-imagining of the music of Woody Guthrie, and about his friendship with Guthrie and Sid Gleason.
To download/order or pre-save the album visit: DEVOTED
For a list of upcoming tour dates, visit Andy's web site at: https://www.andyirvine.com
Brought to you by The Last Music Company, an old school haven for fine music in this mad world.
Come visit us at https://www.lastmusic.co.uk to see what we're up to.
Right, this is Malcolm Mills with another podcast from The Last Music Company, and for this one I'm joined by Andy Irvine. It's July 2026, and today we're going to be talking about Andy's album that we're releasing on the 4th of September this year. It's called Devoted, and it's his very personal selection of songs by Woody Guthrie. Hello Andy. Hello there and Malcolm. Well your biography has already taken on encyclopedic proportions, and there are countless topics that we could dwell on, of course. But the idea for this album of songs by Woody Guthrie goes back many years, and that's what we are going to be hearing about from you in this episode to get some context of the key stages of the great arc of this project from seed to its harvest. So your first band, Sweeney's Men, is now recognised as one of the groundbreakers in terms of the transformation of Irish music that started in the 1960s. You arrived in Dublin as a professional actor, so let's start off by asking you about how you got there and where and when you met and started playing with other like-minded musicians.
SPEAKER_02Well, it was 1962, and uh I had been on the BBC Rep, which was a uh a company that um that the BBC radio supported at the time, and uh it was great. I was I was on it for two two years, and uh and I loved the the other actors and actresses. Um and uh it's always been very sad to me that uh when I came to Dublin I never actually saw any of them again. And 1962, in spite of one's feeling of it as being just a few years ago, was a long time ago, and they're all dead now. So that that that was kind of sad. But but I came to Dublin and and uh largely because I had made a lot of uh Irish friends in in the BBC, um people of fame, in fact, like uh Louis McNeiss. And uh they had all kind of said, yes, you should go, you should go to Ireland. And I I arrived in Dublin, and uh I very quickly found uh a bunch of musicians who played in the brazen head, and we had a great night in the brazen head singing and playing. And uh after that I went back to this guy's house with with these lads, and the session continued, and um from there it it just bloomed. I I I suddenly met uh a whole bunch of people who had the same attitudes to music and life and indeed uh politics that I had never met in London. And um that it quickly decided me uh to stay in Dublin and to continue my life as an actor. I continued as an actor um because there was there was no money at the time in in singing folk songs, but uh I I stayed on and and here I am still.
SPEAKER_00So so um so so your career as an actor started when you were quite young, I I I know that. But I'm quite interested to know about on this Woody Guthrie thing. Um your your musical influences at home when you growing up. Um who who influenced you musically and what were your inspirations?
SPEAKER_02Well, I found nothing of lasting interest until about nineteen about nineteen fifty six or fifty-seven, and then I discovered uh Lonnie Donnegan. Um but I discovered him I if I if I discovered him in 1957, what I discovered was Lonnie Donnegan in 1955, uh before he became famous. Uh and he made a couple of EPs, um, which were quite, you know, they were a couple of years old by the time I I found them. Uh, but they were what they they they motivated me. And uh on the back of one of them I found the name Woody Guthrie, because um Lonnie was singing uh a Woody Guthrie song, I think. And um that intrigued me. I'd never heard of anybody called Woody before, and uh and I was kind of I was quite motivated by by names and numbers in my youth, and um I decided to to to try and find out who Woody Guthrie was. And I wrote a letter in 1958, which I still have because it came back to me, surprisingly, as it was addressed to Mr. Woody Guthrie USA. And uh so I realized that he wasn't world famous at that point. And you know, in 1958, the world was such a it was a much bigger place, and and and there was no way of finding out who these people were. Um But somebody introduced me to Pete Seeger when he was in London, and uh Pete told me how Woody was in hospital in New Jersey with um a genetic disease that he had inherited from his mother called at that time it was called Huntingdon's Corea. They call it Huntingdon's Disease or HD now. But uh I wrote to him, and of course he didn't answer because the courier part of Huntingdon's is that you you you lose control of your limbs. So he was unable to hold a pen or write or anything by that time. But people, uh, a couple who took him out at weekends called Bob and Sidzell Gleason, uh who lived in in New Jersey, they wrote back and said, uh, well, I always remember the first the first letter she wrote to me because it said, Dear Andy, I hope you don't mind me calling you Andy, but Andrew sounds so formal. So that was that was a moment where I became Andy Irvin instead of Andrew Irvin. And uh she was great. She told me how Woody was and and how they'd they took him out at weekends, and uh uh and uh and I uh you know I asked I sent more letters asking Woody questions and she asked him and then sent me back replies about what he said. And I well, my my friendship with with Sid Gleason, um who I always have to point out was was the woman of the family, because Sid is not exactly a woman's name, but she she would we became great friends, and by association I became great friends with with Woody as well. And I sent him a uh a lovely scarf for Christmas in about 1959, I think. And uh one of the one of the greatest things that happened to me was that the Woody Guthrie Newsletter, uh, which was an occasional uh printed document, came out saying Woody would like to thank. And of course, there were all these people like Pete Seeger, Jack and June Elliott, Oscar Brand, everybody who was big on the folk scene at the time. And I looked through this long list with a with a kind of longing, and at the bottom it said, and to Andy from Woody personally, and I thought that has made my teenage life uh a happy one, and uh so yeah, so that me, and I used to, you know, I met Jack Elliott, then we became great friends, and and uh sometimes we would we would uh sing Woody's songs on a tape and send them to Sid Gleason, and she would play them to Woody, and Woody would sing along, apparently. So I could say that uh me and Woody sang together.
SPEAKER_00Right. So um uh when when when you but by the time you got in touch with him, you were obviously playing music a lot yourself. Um were were you playing with other people then, or were you still learning to play an instrument? How did you get to play the the multiple instruments that you play these days? What got you into playing in the first place?
SPEAKER_02Well, I'd been I mean I'd I'd uh I'd learned to play uh classical music on the guitar. Um first of all, I was I had as a gr as a teacher the the the um well the wonderful guitarist Julian Bream. Uh and Julian was not he was just breaking into the fame that he later became. And uh after a couple of lessons, when I'd get to his his uh apartment in Chelsea, there would be uh a note in the window saying, sorry, Andrew, um I forgot I had uh a concert in Zurich this evening. So this happened about three times, and eventually he said, This is not going to work, I'm terribly sorry. He said, I'll pass you on to an ex-pupil of mine, Hector Quine. And Hector Quine uh was called Bill. Um I don't know, I don't know why that was, but his professional name was Hector, but his personal name was Bill. And I had uh lessons with him for a number of years after that, and he was a lovely man. Um and uh and uh I did very well, but eventually practicing two hours a day became not quite enough to advance my technique, and he said, Well, you'll have to practice for three hours a day. And I thought, well, I don't know. And at that moment I discovered Lonnie Donnegan, and much uh a little bit later than that, I discovered Woody Guthrie, and that was the end of my my uh classical training. But of course, I had enough technique to be able to play the guitar and and simulate pretty well the way that Woody played. And um Woody Woody was also a very good mandolin player, and I I I uh I found a uh a mandolin in a uh a musical shop called Skinner's. And it was an amazing place because it only sold mandolins, or nearly mostly sold mandolins, and uh they were all hanging from the ceilings, hundreds of them. And uh I bought one and learned to play a little bit, and gradually over the years it became my my first instrument, and I and I used it as an accompanying instrument, which was uh kind of unusual for uh mandolin. But uh you know, I started I I after I'd lived in Ireland for a while, I was singing uh local songs and um and accompanying them on the mandolin. And it was only a little bit later that uh I first got uh a Greek bazookie and started playing that.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. So I I know you were an early habitue of the Ballads and Blues Club in London. Um tell us a bit a little bit about that and whether or not you were actually getting up and doing anything at the time. What was what was that little scene like then?
SPEAKER_02Well, when I first discovered it, I discovered it because Jack Elliott was going to play there in September of 1959, I think. And by that time I knew who Jack Elliott was, and uh I was very keen to meet him. But it was run at the time by um Ewan McCall and Peggy Seeger. I mean, well, okay, they didn't run it, but uh it was uh they were the the main people there. And Ewan was very very formal and stiff kind of a man who uh insisted that any anybody who sang there, and usually it was just Ewan and Peggy, uh, but he insisted that anybody who who sang there should sing songs from where they came from. Uh and um this put a lot of restrictions on people, people like um Rory McEwen, Alex and Rory McEwen, two Scottish folk singers who were really good, but they sang American songs, so they wouldn't be able to sing in the Ballads and Blues club. And I think in the winter of 1960, uh there was some kind of a falling out between Ewan and Peggy and the man who actually ran the the club, uh, whose name was not good at names anymore. Um his second name was Nixon. I can't remember right now, but uh yeah, so so what happened then was that Ewan and Peggy were not so often uh in the chair, uh and there was there was a lovely man whose name I'm not gonna remember either. Uh, isn't it awful? But he he was a lot looser uh in in his um feelings about what people sang. And uh I never I never dared to sing there. I I I wasn't I was you know I I really wasn't uh I I was still learning my trade at the time. But um but other people like Rory and Alex McEwan could be there and and uh and they often played with with Jack. Jack Elliott was lived in London for for about I think about nine months. And uh and we hung out together and we it was great he brought me to all these parties with people like Alexis Corner and uh well people who were quite big making it on the the uh the folk music stage at the time. And uh I was only I was 17 or something, so I I didn't I didn't utter too much in sounds, uh but but I was it was great to to to be there. Uh and uh and Jack Jack was was great with me. I I don't know why he you know I I I met him by after the the the concert that I was talking about in the Ballins and Blues Club, he was surrounded by people who wanted to talk to him and who had more more kind of uh extrovertism than me. And so I I uh decided I would I would wait outside until he left and I would follow him home. Stalker I was. And when I found out where he was living, uh I uh wrote him a letter and put my phone number on it, or my parents' phone number on it, and he rang me and he said, uh, hey, come on over. So little did he realize what he was getting himself into. I used to cycle over there every morning and ring the bell until somebody answered, himself or his wife June, half asleep, and they'd they'd say, uh, oh, it's you. And I'd go in and I'd sit on the end of the bed until they got up. And then we'd we'd we'd spend the day together, and it was it was it was tremendous. And uh I saw Jack last year when I was on tour in America. Uh for the first time in about 20 years, I'd I hadn't seen him for a long time. And he's in his 90s now, but still hanging together.
SPEAKER_00Marvelous. So um back to Woody Guthrie then. So, what was the first album that you, or the first records that you bought by Woody? What sort of got you into that one?
SPEAKER_02Well, thereby hangs a tale as well, because uh I was walking through the West End of London once, um, used to visit record shops like Doughell's uh and Collets um to see what was new, and I walked past this little shop in Arlem Street, and it was a small record company called Mellow Disc. And in the window there was a Emile Shallett.
SPEAKER_00I knew him well. Oh yeah. Great.
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't think I ever met him, but uh there was this album called More Songs by Woody Guthrie and Cisco Houston. So I went in and bought it immediately, and I asked the guy why it was called More Songs, did they have any others? And he said, no, that's the only one we have, and and it was wasn't until years later I discovered it was called More Songs because he had already in America issued an album called Folk Songs Volume One. Um so I took that home and I put the the stylus on the first track on Side A, and within a microsecond I had discovered my treasure, my life's treasure. Uh it was great. I mean I can I can hear it now, Columbus Stockade. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Great. So so um as a matter of interest, that's a very interesting point there about how I mean Woody Guthrie reputedly wrote over three thousand songs, I mean, all in various shapes and sizes, um, but here you are diluting it down to some, I don't know, 14 something song, 12 or 14 songs that you've chosen to uh represent your interest in him over the years. How on earth did you go about making a a selection as as diverse as they are on this record, devoted?
SPEAKER_02Um well, first of all, I didn't really want to sing the the popular songs that have been recorded so often, like this land is your land. But then I thought uh I should well then I thought of of um Passes of Plenty, which I always thought was a great song. And uh I thought, well, if I can do this in a in a totally different way than anybody who's ever done it before, I would like to include that. And the other one, which is quite well known, is uh Rambling Round Your City. But the other ones that I that I recorded are are not that well known. There's a couple of traditional songs like Buffalo Skinners and Ranger's Command that were on the first EP that I bought of Woody when I was a teenager after more songs that I just brought out.
SPEAKER_00uh three EPs of Woody Gotham Cisco Houston and uh and the other songs were just songs that that historically interested me um like Henry Wallace was was a um a vice he was he was vice president to to FDR in what nineteen forty and a good he was he was a man uh a lot further to the left than uh most American politicians were at the the um vice presidential uh conference or whatever it's called in nineteen forty five uh for the for the the the uh presidential election of nineteen forty five it looked like Henry Wallace was going to be uh voted in again as vice president but somehow there was um an electrical outage and they had to abandon the meeting until the next day and somebody had gone around talking to all the the uh the senators or the the uh the people who were uh in a position to vote for the vice president um and suddenly the next day Henry Wallace was not selected but he stood uh for election presidential election in 1948 on on a on the th a third party uh ticket and he did not make it i I mean by that time any any attempt at liberalism or uh uh indeed uh slight socialism was shunned in America by that time um the war was over and any chance uh of of uh Woody and his his uh friends having any uh influence were long gone and so is Henry Wallace yeah so that's the Wallace Taylor train isn't it and you've coupled it with Bet on Wallace I noticed that's yeah well Woody wrote a few songs f to support Wallace in 48 and uh and I took I took the the the chorus from one song and put it in in the other song um and I think it works very well I'm yeah I'm I'm I'm really pleased with that track. I do I think the yeah I think the overriding thing for me about this collection is brought about by your um the Irishness that you brought to it with a group of musicians who aren't all Irish by any stretch of the imagination but your um arrangements and input into them has given these songs a totally different complexion from anything like the way they've ever been delivered to the public before. So I I'm interested to know how you went about choosing the masterful musicians that you've got amongst these collections.
SPEAKER_02Yeah well basically all the arrangements are mine um and I just you know I just arranged them in my own style uh but the support I got from from people like Donald Lunny um um names again defeating me isn't it ridiculous but I have to I have to tell you I mean I have to say I'm I I have to excuse myself by saying I'm 84 and names just don't stick anymore. But uh Donal and Rens van der Zaam and Bruce Molsky uh Mike McGoldric John Doyle and Nicola Paroff I think that's I I got them all there. I mean they're all my best friends but I when I try and think of a name I got kind of I'm not gonna remember it I'm not gonna remember it but yeah they they were they were all extremely helpful and uh um yeah and it turned out I mean it it was a labor of of love uh and it had a very it had a difficult uh birth have to say um mainly mainly from the mixing point of view I couldn't I couldn't uh I I I had a it took a long time for the people I chose to mix it to actually mix it and uh so I think it's it's probably about six years ago now that I started recording it. But it turned out great and I and I'm I'm really happy with it.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah I mean it's it's it's a it's a marvellous collection I I really like it. What um what also intrigues me is you traveled widely as a musician back in times when people didn't travel as much as they do these days um certainly on musicians' pockets you got yourself all over the place discovered lots of different musical styles which you've uh adapted into your your your playing and um you brought the bazookie to life in in uh Irish traditional music what can you tell me about that well I'm very often uh quoted as being the the person who introduced the bazookie into Irish music which is not true at all because uh my my dear old friend Johnny Moynihan was the first person to play the bazookie play Irish music in the on the bazookie in Ireland and I remember it really well because it was in Galway where I was playing for the summer with Galway Joe Dolan and Johnny turned up with this Greek bazookie and we did not like the sound of it and we we said uh Johnny put that thing away and and play the mandolin for God's sake but he he then almost almost instantly after that he found or somebody told him about a flat back bazookie that was on sale in in uh in London and he went over and bought it and and that's he that's the one he still has so I I was I was not first or probably even second in the pecking order of introducing the bazookie into Irish music. You certainly put it to very good use Andy I think you you're not doing yourself any favours by denying I appreciate the fact that you've given other people some credit for it I wasn't trying to say that you were it but uh what you've done with it particularly on this record and other things is is marvellous. So um coming back to this album I have you got any plans to perform it with this group or a group of musicians anywhere or are you just performing it some of the material as part of your shows?
SPEAKER_02Well that's a tricky one because uh to actually go on the road and play the album um I I I for instance wouldn't have much I wouldn't have enough time this year to do that. You never know. I mean the likelihood is that the album will be hopefully well received uh but not um earth shatteringly received I I mean I say that uh more in in uh lack of hope than judgment. Uh but if it if it if it did make a big enough uh dent in the history books of of recorded music then of course I would I I would I'd I'd have to uh early next year I'd have to get a band together and go and play it. But I don't see that happening. But I am going to to play uh a few numbers with the Swedish band that I'm uh booked to play with in in England in September and in in England and Scotland in September and in Ireland in November.
SPEAKER_00So yeah so we see how that goes anyway. Yeah so the other thing of course is that with this album coming out in September um we're quite hopeful that you'll be able to do little in-store appearances with a couple of stores in Ireland. Again we haven't quite finalised what they are but by the time this gets broadcast they'll be on your website and people can go along and listen to you playing a few tracks of the thing and sign a copy of the record for them while you're there. Okay well I think well the final thing I'd like to ask you is Woody was obviously uh uh uh a real quick fork in the road for you early on in life and you've been involved with the industrial workers of the world uh for many many years was that sort of uh leaning triggered by discovering Woody Guthrie or were you in that sort of area beforehand? That's a good question I I think I I I think I had discovered the IWW before uh before I I got into Woody um I always remember that there were there were a lot of American servicemen living in the block of flats that I lived in with my parents in London and one of these guys said you should read uh the the book Manhattan and I'm not sure if it's in there were three volumes which were later put together and I think it was called USA in fact he did the thing but um the very first chapter was about a guy from the IWW and that really interested me and I and I uh I looked into it and I saw the history of the IWW and I was motivated by that uh I mean the the aspirations of the IWW are are uh truly wonderful and probably impossible given that we are human beings and not angels but um I I still support the IWW strongly and and uh um Woody didn't have a lot to say about the IWW he they by the time he was kind of uh around they were they they were they had they had had trouble in the First World War uh and then there were uh inter-Nissine fights between various uh leading members and uh they were not a big influence on Woody even though I in his song I finished the last verse talking about the IWW well I think that's about all I can squeeze into this episode Andy because as I said at the beginning there's so many little sidebars we could have dived into in your illustrious career so far um and I'm I'm glad we managed to stick generally to the topic but uh I as I've said to you right from the start I'm absolutely delighted to be involved with this genuinely marvellous record and uh thanks for taking the time to get in touch with me in the first place. Well thank you for for being able to be in touch with good all right well listen I'm going to play us out now with a track from the record and what I've chosen is rambling around your city because I think that is still like all Woody songs it's a song for our time but uh that one particularly rings true so Andy Irving thanks very much thank you Malcolm thanks a million sweet heart loaded we'll pick a mallet