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SNM231: Managing Clients and Finding the Perfect Niche for Your Business with Lindy Nowak

• Jonathan Green : Bestselling Author, Tropical Island Entrepreneur, 7-Figure Blogger

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Welcome to the Serve No Master Podcast! This podcast is aimed at helping you find ways to create new revenue streams or make money online without dealing with an underpaid or underappreciated job. Our host is best-selling author, Jonathan Green.

Our guest today is Lindy Nowak, the Founder of “Up in a Day”, a website that allows people to build websites in one day. After working for several years in the world of fashion and branding, Lindy knew it was time to set up her business, and she identified the difficulty businesses had with creating an online presence. This inspired her business model; to make it very easy and enjoyable for clients to get a great website that they deserve, in a short time, with each site branded particularly to each client. 

In this episode, Lindy discusses several aspects involved in creating websites for businesses, as well as key points from her journey, addressing common problems that entrepreneurs in the creative space are likely to encounter.  

 

Episode Topics

  • [[01:01] Meet today's guest, Lindy Nowak. 
  • [01:30] Lindy's decision to start her agency, Up in a Day. 
  • [04:35] How do you find the balance between fast delivery and creating a unique experience for each customer? 
  • [08:30] Lindy's process to find ideal customers.
  • [11:16] Identifying the wrong clients. 
  • [13:45] Dealing with "Scope Creep"; communicating efficiently and knowing the value of your work. 
  • [19:07] How do you handle bad ideas suggested by clients? 
  • [24:40] Common website mistakes of small business owners. 
  • [29:00] Branded vs Ubiquitous websites. 
  • [30:50] How do you deal with Paralysis Analysis? 
  • [34:23] Connect with Lindy.

 

Notable Quotes

-       “"What do I love doing, what am I really good at, and what value from that can I provide to the market?" - [Lindy Nowak] 

-       "The number one thing for Up in a Day is to vet the clients" - [Lindy Nowak]

-       "Know the value and quality of your work, and what it costs; it's a time cost" - [Lindy Nowak]

-       "We have to assume that 90% of the people coming to us as creatives are not creative, so they don't understand what happens behind closed doors on our side" - [Lindy Nowak]

-       "You want your audience to do one thing, what is it that you want them to do?" - [Lindy Nowak]

 

Connect with Lindy Nowak 


Connect with Jonathan Green

Connect with Jonathan Green

Jonathan Green: Managing clients and finding the perfect niche for your business with special guests Lindy Nowak on today's episode of the ServeNoMaster podcast

Announcer: Today's episode is brought to you by Canva. When we finally decided to grow our social media presence, Canva was the only option I tried. Dozens of alternatives. But I had to admit that nothing else comes close. We use Canva for social images, print on demand designs and tons more at ServeNoMaster grab a free account today@servenomaster.com front slash Canva. 

Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you want to make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now then you've come to the right place. Welcome to ServeNoMaster podcast where you'll learn how to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep presented live from a tropical island in the south Pacific by bestselling author, Jonathan Green. Now here's your host.

Jonathan Green: I loved one and welcome to a very special episode of the ServeNoMaster podcast. I'm so excited to have another amazing lady entrepreneur today to share her experience of coming from the world of fashion and branding into web design and talk a lot about some subjects. I find very interesting and certainly how I started, which is helping offline businesses come online. So I'm so excited to have you here today. Thank you so much for some time with us Lindy.

LindyNowak: Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here. 

Jonathan Green: So I'd love to just get a little feel for your story as far as going from corporate world to starting your own business. And kind of when was that moment where you go, I'm gonna do this. I wanna strike out on my own. I wanna be the one in charge, the one in the middle of the arena, the all or nothing. What was that moment like where you decided I'm gonna go for it?

LindyNowak: That's a great question. So I would spent 15 years, excuse me in New York city as a creative director. And there was an opportunity that arose, um, with myself and my boyfriend, uh, to move to Miami. And so we did, we picked up, um, at the time I was at women's health magazine and, um, I had been there for about three years and while I was there, I had this like little, you know, notion in the back of my head that was like, the time is now I need something that is mine, that I can create. And, and, but I'm in New York city. What does that look like? You know, going from being in the corporate world for so long and then just stopping. So I was like kind of back and forth, like, man, it was like in the back of my head, so we did it. We moved to Miami. I got here and I knew that trying to find a high level creative director position, um, in the city was going to be a little bit more difficult than, you know, New York. There are there jobs with plenty as a creative director. And that's when it was that's when it happened. I met some people around the city, um, as a lot of your listeners, I'm sure, you know, uh, they know that Miami is, uh, quite the tech hub right now and it was just right in front of me. And that's when I was like, that's it. I am going to start my own agency. And, um, I always had a dream of creating a productized service, one that was very transactional, both for our customers and for me. And so I spent about six months, um, devising a plan for up in a day websites, uh, that allows us to build our websites in one day. And that's how up in a day was born.

Jonathan Green: So your process is very template driven. 

LindyNowak: Yes, well, the process is template driven, but all of our websites are custom design. So we, even though it's, we build in Squarespace and although Squarespace does offer template designs, we start with a blank campus every time, because what, what I did was when I was creating the business model and the product itself is that I took these blank templates and, um, focused on the industries that we work with. And then I created a framework for each of these templated, if you will, uh, websites. So it's almost like they have built in wire frames that are, uh, focused on, uh, marketing driven, uh, websites and layout designs. 

Jonathan Green: Oh, that's very interesting. Cuz I've seen there's two ends of the spectrum. There's the one side of the web designer that starts with a completely blank page for every project. And it takes a really long time. And the other end of the spectrum is like every client basically gets the same website in a different color. So how do you kind of weigh that balance to give the customer a good experience while allowing your business to grow and be scalable and deliver products so quickly because that's really the struggle. Most web design projects take months or even years.

LindyNowak: Such a good question. So when I moved to Miami and I decided to go start my own company, I did research first and foremost, I took a step back and I asked myself, what do I love doing? what am I really good at? And what value from that can I provide to the market? And that's when I decided that, well, I love building websites. I come from a marketing background and all of the websites that I've built in my past have all been very strong and marketing driven. And what platform is the easiest to build in. And most importantly, the easiest to manage after our websites are built out for the, our end user and that answer was Squarespace. So, so during the process of, or during the creating, during the process of creating this model, um, I created a process that allows us to onboard our clients in the easiest, fastest way and in an enjoyable way for them. So the whole purpose of up in the day is to make it really easy and enjoyable for our customers to get a really great website that they deserve, because I saw that a gap in the market. Uh, people were coming to us, um, or coming to me saying, I need a website. I, um, had a bad experience. I paid too much. I waited too long. My cousin designed our website and I need something better and I need it quickly. And. I just, you know, I was listening to these people coming to me. Um, I knew there was a gap in the market for small business owners and entrepreneurs to get these great websites and get them quickly. So that's the process that I created to bring them on board very quickly. That process, then a process that allows my designers to design these custom websites within 12 hours. We literally designed them in a day through the framework that I created. And then the review with our client, uh, which is so fun. And, um, that's a video review. We make all the edits and then the process to transition the website, the ownership of it over to them. And then to send them off with a video that shows them how to make updates on their own. Now we have a subscription service, uh, in which we make, uh, ongoing updates for them, uh, part of the business model. So they're not, we have the recurring income, uh, for up in. But truly, um, the websites, you know, as a, as custom as they get the framework is what, uh, is the basis of, um, being able to, uh, devise a system and a layout for any industry. And then what we do is we take all of the branding and the assets and the copy, and we plug them into the frameworks. And so no website is alike. Um, they all have their own appeal because obviously everyone's market is a little bit different who they're targeting and their messaging is different. So therefore the websites have to be, uh, very branded and particular to each one of our customers. It's just the backend framework that allows us to almost like plug and play. If you will.

Jonathan Green: What was your process for identifying your ideal customer? Like how did you isolate this is the type of customer you wanna work with? I know for myself, when I started out, I was selling local SEO services, local video marketing services. And I always looked for a customer who, for them, a customer had a specific value. So I wanted a customer who was like a single customer, has the most value for them. So if I could get them one or two extra customers a month, they would get a real value. What's your process? Or how did you figure out this is, who needs me the most? This is who I kind of deliver the product at the tri band that I wanna operate in 

LindyNowak: Tested. I just, I tested different types of customers, different types of industries coming to us, and then being able to vet them and learning, you know, the hard way for people who, um, need a little bit more than what our scope provides. And then those who are just very like. Thank you. I am so glad I found you. Here's my branding. I will see you in two days, and those are the ideal customers. So once I found that, um, the type of business owner is for up in the day is one in which just lets us handle the whole thing while they go back to focusing on their business. Then I said, okay, what's who, who are these people who are these business owners? And so I started mapping out different industries that, um, Of of businesses whose websites are a confirmation. So their customers are they're coming in as a referral. They've heard about this business, they're shopping online. So they're going to go to your website for confirmation. So then I said, who are these people? CPAs, chiropractors, business coaches. Uh, they are small, uh, main street shops, so we have e-commerce as well. And then it was just, and then it would, so I created, so then I started creating, I created the product. Then I started, then I created the, uh, the process to help these business owners. And then I, uh, Then I just vetted each client. So now we have, uh, you know, a specific type of, uh, mortgage broker CPA that these people are just so busy, um, that they just need a really great website up. And so then it becomes more of like a referral business for us because they tell, you know, everybody in their network about up in the day.

Jonathan Green: So one of the mistakes I made early on in my career was taking on bad customers where sometimes I'm like, oh, we just need one more customer right here. And I would regret it. Sometimes I had customers that by the time I finished the project, I had lost money. What are the red flags for you? The signs that you go, oh, I do not wanna close this client. I need to get out of this me. What are the signs that you go? This is not the right customer for us.

LindyNowak: First that was the number one. Um, that's the number one thing for up and today is to vet the clients. So I created a, a list of questions that are very specific to ask. Like literally we asked the exact same questions to each of these new customers coming in. And if there are any red flags, for example, um, they want to have more than one round of reviews for their website, or if they want to be very involved in the nitpicky of the design and the layout. And they wanna see a framework before we build it. Like those are huge red flags because that is not the up in the day product. And it that's fine. It's not for everybody. So it's really just like specific questions that will kind of spark the red flag or give us the, the green light to go. And it's we meet everybody on zoom. So it's really, so it's great because then we can see them face to face. They get to know us, we get to know them. Uh, we ask, you know, we get to know every, everything about their business in, in 30 to 45 minutes, sometimes longer. And then it's really important. Actually, this is the most important part that we are very communicative about what they're getting about our process, about what the up in a day scope is. And we make sure that we clarify that, um, during that first initial call, and then we ask them, are you okay with this? Does this sound like something that you no, you wanna go forward with? And then it doesn't, you know, we, it is funny. You have your processes, you have your red flags, but sometimes you will get a client that will have a scope creep, even though they signed the agreement and we clarified exactly what they're getting. And that is fine too. If it moves into like custom land, it's not ideal for up in today, but we will go there and we just. You know, we charge on top of that again, it's all about communicating with your clients and making sure, um, you explain exactly what they're getting up front, how much it's gonna cost if they want more. And, and then moving forward from there.

Jonathan Green: You brought up a really good term there that every new entrepreneur hits when they're doing services, which is scope creep. Um, and one issue that I see in every single type of service based industry, whether it's delivering SEO services or web design, or for me ghost writing it's that, um, in the middle they'll approve something and then later on go, they didn't really look at it and they wanna do a big change. For example, for me, I'll go through a process where I give 'em the, I give them an outline. Then I write the rough draft. They read the rough draft. They go, you know, reading this, I have a new idea and they go, well, that sounds like a new book and that's a really hard pain point for a lot of people because you deliver it and they go, well, I approved it, but not really. So how do you deal with this? What's the right way to approach that moment because that's such a hurdle in almost every form of service delivery.

LindyNowak: It is such a hurdle. In fact, we have a client right now who, and we don't typically do this. Asked us to create custom graphics for their website. And that exact thing happened late last week. So how did we handle it? We, we in writing and on a zoom, so it didn't come off as like too, you know, affirmative, you have to stand your ground. Um, And know the, the value and the quality of your work and what it costs. It's a time cost. We try not to go hourly cuz our, because we work fast. So if , if we do hourly for three hours of work, that would normally take somebody six hours, that's not gonna, that's not gonna go well for us, uh, for our margins. So we price everything out by project and then. You know, when this happened, we wrote a nice email. Okay. No problem. We are more than happy to help you. This is going to be a completely designed based off of the agreement and the scope and how many rounds you get. This is the cost. Are you okay with it? If so, we will move forward. And then, you know, if, if we have the availability or the opportunity to meet with them over zoom, to talk about something else on the project, it just gives you a, another wheelhouse, like another channel to demonstrate your customer service and the quality, even it doesn't matter. Of course you're annoyed and you're like, oh my gosh, it's quiet.It's like so much work. And I don't wanna be doing this anymore. But if you just get with them and talk to them in person, it just alleviates so much pressure off of you. Uh, again, because you're communicating with them, you're getting an, a confirmation that it's okay to move forward. And then at the end of the day, it all gets done and you are getting paid for the work that you are doing without scope creep. That's just being, I think, as a business owner, as creatives, we tend to be a little sensitive. So when, when these things happen, these clients come in, we have to assume that most of 90% of the people coming to us as creatives are not creative, so they don't understand what happens behind. Closed doors on our side. Right.They, and they shouldn't have to, they, it's not their, you know, they don't think that way, but. But we spend every waking hour thinking about these projects and then we're like, then we have to implement that and execute. And then when we present to the client, even though they approved it and they come back and say, you know what, I actually want something else. You almost can't fault them for it because every business is evolving. And sometimes those clients don't know how to articulate really what they want, or you don't know what's happening behind those core doors. Maybe they have, uh, you know, other team members or maybe it's subjective perceptions, you know? And so you just it's really about being standing your ground, knowing what you're worth, knowing what it's gonna cost, and if they don't want the redesign, or if they decide not to go with you to redesign or rewrite or whatever it is. You can send them somewhere else, maybe refer them to somebody else. And, um, we actually say that sometimes, like if it gets not so much in up in a day, I actually had a little boutique digital marketing , uh, business before started up in a day and we would do that. We would say, you know, perhaps what you're looking for is not what we can provide and that's okay. We have somebody that we can refer you too.

Jonathan Green: So 

LindyNowak: that's always hard to do. 

Jonathan Green: That's really, really helpful advice. Um, one of the challenges, especially in creative, I always worry about anything creative because that's where this personal opinion comes in and someone can say, I like it, or don't like it, or they like it. Then they show it to their wife. Their wife goes, that looks horrible. And you have a problem. The next day that's happened to me many times, one of the first lessons I learned from one of my mentors, about 12 or 13 years ago, he said most people in America have really bad taste and two, my sisters are New York fashion designers and it's New York fashion doesn't work in most other places. Most people, they don't dress high fashion. I still don't understand why a man wear cowboy boots, Jean shorts, and like a tuxedo jacket. I don't understand high fashion. I'm aware of it, but that's what I've noticed is what happens when you have somebody who comes to you and they have, they tell you what they want for their website. And your first thought is, oh, When you mix those two colors, it immediately causes people to throw up or they're gonna get dizzy. How do you deal with that issue? When someone comes to you as a creative and you know, their ideas, a really bad one, and they're pushing for it hard.

LindyNowak: Is that, do they come to you with existing branding that you're looking to clean up or do, or just like something brand new?

Jonathan Green: I'll give you an example for me. So I do a lot of high level ghost writing and sometimes a client will come to me and they'll start making rules, like they won't show up to the live interviews. They won't to the phone calls or they won't let me have they won't or they won't let me use certain types of stories or they won't let they go. I don't want you to write anything that didn't actually happen. So I have no creative freedom or they'll say, oh, you're not allowed to do any research outside of the phone calls. This happened to me where a client only tells me really boring stories and I'm not allowed to jazz them up at all. And I go, well, you've tied my hands. I'm not allowed to do research. I'm not allowed to bring in like facts to back up a story. And I'm not allowed to tell any story that you didn't tell me. And I'm also not allowed to increase the interest of your stories, which is basically they've removed all my skills from the table and I go, okay, but the book's gonna be really boring, cuz you've told me I'm not allowed to make it interesting. Right. You've taken away what I do that I'm really good at. And in the same place I've had where I did a web design project when I was starting out and the person's idea was a combination of sugar, daddy dating and Facebook where rich guys could show off the young girls, they were dating and he had a picture of a man holding money, doing shh. And he goes, the picture needs to be everyweek. He said the picture needs to be bigger. That was the always, always. And I was like, this picture is so tacky, but he is like, it needs to be bigger every week. He's like, I just want it bigger. and that was the main thing he said. And I was like, I don't know where this idea came from, but it was one of those clients you just take because you need the work, even though in your head, you go totally. This is a terrible idea. And he also, it was like, I was like, oh, the worst thing of two different ideas combined. And he is like, we need like really bright purples and he goes, and can you make, can you make the guy bigger again? Like I really want the guy bigger. so that's kind of what I'm talking about those are two examples from my ex. 

LindyNowak: Well, that is, that is the best example I've ever heard. Okay. Well, let's see. Um, let's digest that one. Um, first I would say, uh, the way we would handle it is, um, it's, if it's a bad idea and you just like, can't break through the, the chains, then, uh, we have done a couple things. Just like you, you were saying, you explained to them, you know, kinda say we're without saying we're the professionals, but you know, you came to us for, to, to clean this up. We're happy to work within your parameters. No problem. I just wanna let you know that, um, this is where we are, you know, we're strapped on our side. So the, when we execute and the outcome, it, hopefully we can, you know, it'll be exactly what you're looking for, but if it's not these, this is why cuz we're only working within these parameters. the other thing we do. Um, I'm not sure if your listeners also have tried doing this, but it, it tends to work depending on what you are doing for a client, but we show them. A and B a is what they want, the, the lots of purple and the picture bigger, bigger, bigger. And then they, and then we show them B sometimes C and B and C, uh, is like, is a mix of what we would do and what they want. And C is what we suggest. And we literally write that on a little presentation, takes a lot. It takes time. Yes. And it takes effort, which means it takes money on your end, but at the end, but I think at the end of the project, you're gonna be glad you did that. And you, it's a lesson that you learned and you'll start to repeat that over and over again. Um, the other thing is you could just do it and not show it in your portfolio and, and pay and charge for it and charge good. 

Jonathan Green: So that I appreciate your honesty, cuz I have something when I take on a client, um, I have several charges built in which is I call it an inconvenience tax, which for example is, um, very often I'll write so an entire book for someone I'll write the entire rough draft and they never read it. And I never hear from them again, that's built in or they finish it. They love it, but they never publish it. And people say to me, Jonathan, why don't you get upset? I go, that's built into my pricing. I learned the first time that happened. Cause I've I wrote something for someone. I was like, this is the best thing I've ever written. And then they didn't publish it and I was like, oh boy. Okay. I learned my lesson that if on something, the more I'm proud I am, but the more I build that in, or the inconvenience, like that's become a large problem. Like my price for if someone's a great client would be much lower. But I build in the, what, if they are gonna be annoying? What if they're going to ask, what if they're gonna make me write stuff that's really bad or they're gonna make me include a story that really bothers me. I build that into the pricing. And so that's kind of become part of my process exactly. That you add in that buffer for the bad idea, or I'm not gonna include in my portfolio or say things like, do not tell me when I wrote this. I've been a part of project like that before, where I'm like definitely focused on the ghost and ghost writer. So that's a really good lesson. Yeah. But sometimes you just wanna finish the project. I'd love to dive into a little bit, um, of your experience with branding and colors and fashion design. What are the, the most common kind of mistakes you've seen? Small business owners make. The first one I encountered when I very started out my very first SEO client, she said, how come I never get any phone calls from my website? And she couldn't understand it. She spent a lot of money for a web design, and I looked at her website and I said, well, probably because your phone, number's not on the website. It was like such a, and she was like, you're a genius. And I was like, I wish I was , but it was a, and these really small things happen that people don't realize they're critical their phone. Number's not there. Or the web, the email address doesn't work, or you don't get the emails to your house. What are some really common mistakes people make with their websites? When they're starting out as small business owners.

LindyNowak: They have too many call to actions, too many buttons, or they don't have any. At, towards the top of the page, you want to, you want your audience to do one thing? What is it? The, what is it that you want them to do? Do you want them to sign up to your newsletter only and put it at the top of the page and tell them why answer solve their problem? What is the problem they're having? And then explain it in your words with great messaging and then put the call to action. Do you want them to call you, put your phone number there if you and make it easy. Remember, we, uh, keep it simple, stupid, like, make it easy for your customers because people in the days of Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and people's heads going, you have a million miles an minute and they're scrolling so fast. They're doing the same thing on your website, right? They'll they'll stop and they'll read, but know that they're skimming. So you have three seconds to capture their attention at the top of the page, mobile and desktop. Do you want them to book a call with you? That's ours. So we book a call, book a call, if they wanna call us now, that's also an option, but just keep the one CTA and the one, the one piece of language that, that message, that answers what they wanna hear that solves their problem. And that's, that's easier said than done. And I'm sure, you know, cause you're a writer. Um, And so maybe try some AB testing, uh, when you get to that point of your messaging, but that should also be, uh, towards the top of your page with awesome graphics too, by the way that represent either your customers or you.

Jonathan Green: That's a really, really good piece of advice. I love it, cuz it's a lot of what I agree with when I. Take a writing project and say, if you can get someone to do one thing after you read your book, what is it you can have, 'em do one action. And I often the place I see this, the worst is at the end of every podcast, someone will go, Hey, thanks for listening. Leave a review, follow us on Facebook, subscribe to our newsletter, listen to us on stitch or listen, show us on apple premium. And they have like 15 calls to action. I always think no one's gonna do that. I can't even remember all of those things. And I that's the place where I see people do it the worst, but that's really good advice because we. If we don't have the one thing, then it's people dunno what to do. It's um, I'm always amazed. I always think of the cheesecake factories menu. I don't know how they're in business cuz it's, I've never read the whole thing. It's so long. It has commercials in, it has ads in the menu and it's, that's the one like people always go, but that's the one place they have a, the longest menu I'm like, yeah, but they're no exception. So often people when they're given like three choices, Because we're all afraid of making the dumb decision. So if we have three choices, we go, oh, I gotta think about this. Cause I don't wanna choose wrong. Do I wanna follow on Facebook? Do I wanna subscribe to the podcast? Do I wanna leave review? Do I wanna leave my email address? And so we're so afraid of the wrong decision. We make no decision. It's the same thing in like car dealers, car dealers. No, if you go, oh, I'm gonna think about it and come back. They know you're not coming back. As soon as you pull back from decision making, cuz they've shown you too many cars or too many decisions, you go, oh, I came here to look at one car. You showed me two. Now I'm not. So that's a really great lesson. Is that when it's a yes or no decision, a binary decision, it's like either book a call or don't, or either leave your email address or leave the website. Then people are forced into making a decision and either decision is fine. At least they've made a decision. So I think that's really, really good piece of advice. I think it's so valuable for people because it is a really common mistake I see where they have so many calls to actions or so many things they want a customer to do. And it's hard to narrow that down. What about, um, do you think it's better to have a really strong brand that not everyone likes or that stands out, or that maybe it's a little bit tacky or one that's kind of forgettable and I'm kind of thinking here about the kind of, I call it the Canva effect there's a lot of websites that look like Canva and they look the same. They use the same fonts. They're obviously using Canva templates, which are nice, but. Kind of ubiquitous. And so all these websites look the same. They use the same set of paste colors, or is it better to have something that's a little more distinctive, but not everyone's feeling it, but it's memorable 

LindyNowak: The latter I think that you're right. I, there are, there are a lot of templated websites out there that all look the same. And when you start shopping around and you see many of those, you start to question their offering and their brand. And. I'd be much more apt to, you know, get on a website. Maybe the branding's not perfect and beautiful and on trend with the now, but at least it's unique and I can get past that and, and think, and see their offering, uh, and see the uniqueness. And I'd be, you know, more interested in contacting them to learn more. That's that's my opinion. I think yes. Branding is important. But, and the layout is important, but visuals, you know, of course everything. I mean, if the visuals are bad, uh, and the, the website's really busy and you don't know where to look, then that's an issue, but the website's clean and maybe not that great, but at least they're unique, um, outside of everybody else, I think that's a little bit more important. 

Jonathan Green: So one thing, 

LindyNowak: big business. 

Jonathan Green: One spot where a lot of people get stuck is paralysis analysis. They keep chasing perfection. And I see this in a lot of areas of business. For example, a lot of authors follow me and I say, where's your audio book? And they go, well, I have to do it myself. And they haven't written it for, they haven't recorded it for two years. So they've lost two years of sales. That's how I see it. That's why I have someone else do an audiobook. I can do my own audio books, because I'll wanna keep making it better and making changes, and you're not allowed to do that. You have to follow the book. Exactly. Otherwise, Amazon gets mad at you and won't do a sync. So in the same way I see sometimes people like, oh, I've been working on my website for a long time. I'm not gonna show it to anyone until it's perfect. And there's this chasing of perfection. Now, my website has a lot of glitches in it. I get emails all the time. Jonathan, I found a broken link. Jonathan. I found another broken link and it's been like that for the six years it's. And I say, yeah, it has broken links. Cause things are always changing. I'm always fixing it and I can never catch them off. My website's big. I have lots of blog posts. It happens and it doesn't affect my business. It's I see it as the 80 20 rule. Like there's gonna be broken stuff and only a few people notice it and when they notice it and they tell me, I fix it, I have a whole system set for people to let me know when they find mistakes so they can help me. And then I'll fix 'em, but there's this fear. Oh, I can't publish it until something everything's right. But then by the time they release. Some of the stuff has changed again. So how do you deal with that? I think that's, what's interesting about what you do is the one day website idea, because it doesn't give people time to do that.

LindyNowak: Yes, exactly ,for us I mean, for 80 20 year rule, go about your projects 80% of the time. And then most of the time you're gonna see that there they are 100%, but if you go into like, 80% is good enough. At least give it that without the PR pressuring yourself to do like the nitty gritty per perfect. Perfect. Perfect. And then you start procrastinating and then all of a sudden it's been too long and you have to go back and fix a bunch of stuff. So, you know, with us, we don't take the, we don't have to take the 80% rule because we're so used to building these out every single day. Uh, and we can do it really fast, but you know, we know that when we present these websites to the clients, that there's a chance that they either hate them or they love them, or they wanna make a lot of edits or just a few edits. Uh, and so. When, so we just make sure that the website is exact, you know, to our standard. Then we present to the client and then when we're making all of the edits, uh, at that time, usually there's just like a few like copy edits. Um, we hand it off because again, going back to like subjective and perceptions. You don't know what the client sees that you see and they're coming to you because you are the expert. So it's important that you give 100%, even if it is 80%. But if you it's knowing that when you were presenting your work to the, to a client, that you are happy with it. And then go from there, it's like step by step approach, but making sure that you guys, you know, you give as much as you can, the 100% based on what you're given to work with, or it could do 80% which works too. The 80 20 rule is actually really important to follow with a lot of things. I, I believe. 

Jonathan Green: I think that's really wonderful advice. And I appreciate you spending so much time with us today. I know your time is so precious. Where can people find out more about what you do and to see some of the amazing designs you've put together?

LindyNowak: Thank you. It's been so fun chatting with you and thank you for having me on your show. Uh, your listeners can go to up in a day.co and if they wanna see our work, they can go to up in a day.co/our hyphen work, and you can find it in our Nath bar as well. Thank you.

Jonathan Green: That's perfect. So guys, we put the links right below the video. If you're listening to the podcast, it's in the show notes and it's in the PDF that comes with the blog post. We put the link everywhere. Thank you so much for being here today. Lindy we really appreciate.

LindyNowak: Thank you. 

Jonathan Green: Thanks for listening to today's episode making that first dollar online. Doesn't have to be daunting. I've got you covered. Get my free guy on how to make your first thousand dollars online right now@servemaster.com slash o 1K.

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