Jonathan Green: Building your business while maintaining a full-time job and knowing when it's time to quit with special guests, Charles Johnston on today's episode of The Serve No Master Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Builderall. They are my favorite all in one solution for your online business.
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Announcer: Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated?
If you want to make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now. Then you've come to the right place. Welcome to Serve No Master Podcast, where you'll learn how to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep. Presented. Live from a tropical island in the South Pacific by best selling author Jonathan Green.
Now, here's your host.
Jonathan Green: Bootstrapping a business and starting it on the side and then turning it into your own full business. On today's very special episode of the Serve Master podcast, we have Charles, and I'm so excited to talk about really this process of realizing we can transition from what we're doing to what we wanna be doing.
Thank you so much for being here today, . Thanks for having me. Jonathan, to hear a little bit about how your journey started, maybe start with the moment when you said, I wanna start doing something else even while you still had a full time.
Charles Johnston: Okay, sure. I'm gonna take you back a little bit, I'll take you back to two.
About 2015. And it was September of 15 actually. I went my first mission trip to Haiti and I had been working corporate it, sitting in the cubicle for. Almost right about two decades. And I went to, on this mission trip, and truly I went there mainly to make sure that my wife was safe. I didn't have any interest in having my life changed whatsoever.
But I had. What I can only say is a life changing moment there. On the last day we were there and I came back and sat in that cubicle on Monday morning and things just weren't the same anymore. And I felt like I didn't to do something different. And I started searching and I started trying to figure out, how can I help other people?
And used my gifts and talents to best serve them. And I had been giving away web services for a go, probably going on. Six or seven years. At that point it was free. Just as a hobby I was a blogger and I liked doing design and. I threw some coaching and some self-evaluation. I decided that, why not start a web design agency?
I like doing it. It's something that I truly enjoy and it's something that nonprofits, which was what my focus was originally, where they could really take advantage of that because there were a lot of companies out there charging them thousands upon thousands of dollars for a website, which I felt was taking away from their.
For whole purpose of trying to raise money to help and do good. And so in 2016 still working full-time. I started my agency. Originally it was gonna be only a web design agency for non-profits, and then I found that working with non-profits sometimes is a little difficult. When you get into working with their boards and getting grants and fundraising and stuff like that.
And so I've changed that model a bit to where we now serve non-profits as well as small to medium sized businesses. And the agency itself has actually evolved too during the process where I've. From being a web design agency to network a full scale digital marketing agency providing all services, both online as well as in print media.
So
Jonathan Green: you brought up something very interesting to me, which is the challenge of working with non-profits, which a lot of people who have never done it before. I certainly, the one time a non-profit approached me. I was really surprised about the complexity of decision making, so maybe you could talk a little bit about that.
I'm used to the client that can decide, but it was the person in charge that has to go to the board. Then the board has to go to a vote, then they have to go to the funding, and so the process is really complicated. Tell me a little about your experience. It.
Charles Johnston: It really is. And I've actually had the pleasure of working on both sides.
I've sat on the board of organizations as well as having to deal with the logistics of having to work with the board. And that's really what it is usually it's a volunteer that's assigned to actually track down what is, what's a website gonna cost us. And most of the time they have no vision, they have no guidelines, they have very little, even as far as what budget to work with.
They're just out there to get that first scope of what's available. And once an agency like my own gives them a quote, then they have to take it back to their board. And the board usually has half a dozen. Different RFPs that they've gotten from different agencies to determine whether or not they want to have a continued conversation with 'em.
And once they get through that process, then they have to take it to a vote and see if they have the funding. And usually that means that they have to go to whoever the treasurer is to see if they even have the funding. And if they don't, then they have to figure out a fundraiser. Which usually is gonna be some sort of gala donation thing, donation drive.
Sometimes they'll do a drive just for that one purpose, but a lot of times it's a mixture of a bunch of other purposes that they decide to lump it in to actually be able to afford it. And sometimes that can stretch your whole. Project out where they committed to the agency that, yes, we wanna do this, but then can we make payment arrangements?
Can we wait six months before we actually start because we need to raise the money and things like that. Which can bring be a bit of a frustration from the agency side too, because we, we get the commitment, but then when do you actually start? And and I'm not a big fan of payment plans because it tends to stretch out indefinitely a lot of times.
And we do what we can, but that's also where we also adjust our pricing a bit to work with non-profits because we realize that, there, there's a hurdle that they have to reach. And we also come in as a, if they need some guidance with their boards, we're more than happy to go in and talk to their boards.
I've had meetings. Board members and as well as the treasurers and whatnot in finance, because sometimes the person that's gathering the information doesn't have all the information and they don't even know the questions to ask. And so you have to go and have, further conversations, which again stretches out the project for
Jonathan Green: sure.
I think that's, Something really important to know is that you wanna help certain, like non-profits. You're like, oh, I really care about this charity. It's happened to me when I've gotten involved in a couple of these types of projects in my business, and it's so much extra work. The decision making timeline is really long.
It's the same reason like there's certain industries, like when you're dealing with government or hospitals, they take three years to make a buying decision. And as a small business owner, You need that client now, like it's really surpr. Like I'm used to. The client says yes. They send the money within 24 hours, not okay.
Now there's gonna be six more board meetings, so that can be really stressful and it can wear on you can it when you are caught. It really, I wanna help and I gotta support my family.
Charles Johnston: Yeah. And you, and it's funny, you bring up government whatnot. Like I, I'm a resource for our local as well as state government.
And I tend to not solicit and even answer the RFPs that come in because I know what a headache it can be to actually work with them and get the funding. And the same thing goes for non-profits. We love to serve them. And the interesting thing is and I wanna bring this point up, a nonprofit does not mean they don't have.
A lot of people think a non-profit has no money. A non-profit really is a business. They should be treated as a business. And don't think just because we work with non-profits, that means we give away our services. They're the non-profit. We are not. And a lot of times we have non-profits or people that are sitting on the board or volunteers that think that when they solicit somebody for something that's gonna be a donation or inkind thing we do.
But it's by our choice, not because we asked, we're asked to do it. And a lot of times that seems to be a nuance. It's almost like freelancing. People get that term confused too, where a nonprofit, they do have money, so don't think if you're actually gonna go work with 'em, that they don't just understand.
It's a little bit of a long game sometimes. What was
Jonathan Green: it like starting a business while you had a full-time job? Was there ever a worry that your boss would find out about the other job and make you make a decision?
Charles Johnston: It, it was and obvious, and obviously I worked corporate it, so I was in the same industry, but not really the same industry.
I wasn't a competitor and so I didn't have that problem. And honestly, I got to the point where I finally told my boss because I couldn't hide it anymore. Because of meetings, because of having to reallocate, my schedule, granted I had a flex schedule, but I still had to make adjustments here and there.
Take a longer lunch here and there, and fortunately I have a pretty awesome boss where they didn't care. They're like, you know what? Go for it. And they, they didn't even, they were like, okay, can you tell me a little bit more about your business and actually were interested kind of thing versus that fear, which, obviously anybody's gonna have that, oh, I'm gonna get fired before I'm ready.
And sometimes, and I know this from experience from previous, getting fired before you're ready, sometimes can be a. That can kind, that can sometimes catapult you into actually chasing your dream a little bit more and a little faster than taking that comfort way of continuing to work full time until you think you're ready.
And so that's an adjustment as well. But yeah, the boss. And even talking to coworkers because you wanna guard yourself on what you share with them because you don't know how that's gonna relate back. So they're, oh, he's working a side, so he is not doing his job, he's not working as much as he should be because this is taking his time.
And so there's absolutely that fear
Jonathan Green: for sure. I think that sometimes people hesitate to start a side business or a side project cuz they don't wanna lose their main revenue stream. But a lot of people have discovered the last few years that those revenue streams aren't as reliable. Almost everyone I know.
A getting fired story at a bad time. I had a friend who got had a baby right before Christmas and got fired on Christmas Eve, and he is really devastating. I'm like, that's not an exceptional story. That's a normal story. So this fear of the bad experience at work, I don't think it should hold you back because your job isn't as secure as you think it is.
Charles Johnston: Exactly. Years before I got laid off from a job and I thought, when it happened, like literally I got my annual review the day on, on Tuesday. I bought my truck on Tuesday night cuz I thought, I was getting a little extra money and all this and they told me what the money was and I needed a vehicle anyway.
And they laid my entire team off on. Literally just gone. And you knew that. They knew, but they just couldn't tell you at that point in time. And I was a bit devastated when that happened. This was back in 2010 and I was like, what am I gonna do? I'd been with the company almost eight years and I'm like, I had never done anything but that.
But granted, I wasn't an entrepreneur at that time, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me cuz it, it moved me. I ended up tripling my income because I didn't know what my income was out there, and it made me really evaluate that, okay, you really are just a number and it doesn't matter unfortunately, the size of business even you're, many times you're just a number.
Even the small businesses have to make some of those decisions and it thrusts you in, especially as an entrepreneur, it thrusts you into the, that creativity and. Figure it out on the way down kind of moments, which sometimes are come out to be the best things that could possibly happen.
Jonathan Green: Yeah. It's the challenges in life that show us what we're capable of. I think a lot of people, until we experience a challenge, don't realize how strong they actually are. Like one of the worst things that can happen in my experience to a new entrepreneur is are first as a massive success. I've seen that happen to people.
The first idea really works like, oh, being an entrepreneur's easy, and when that ride. The next idea's really hard and they can't believe it. And I'm like, that's the danger of like success on the very first time. So I think you're exactly right that adversity can not only make us stronger, but show us what we're capable of.
I've discovered throughout my career that there are a lot of things that I didn't think I was capable of. I never thought I could be an entrepreneur until I was forced into it and realized, oh, this is what I've always meant to be doing. Yeah.
Charles Johnston: And it's kinda interesting because like I, I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs, small business owners and whatnot, and I watched them, but I never thought that was me.
And until I and I dabbled, I had a business before the one I currently had. I had a DJ company back in the nineties, and that one, I quit my job to go work full time, and I quit my job too early. To be honest with you I wasn't ready. I was young and I wasn't ready. And I remember my dad specifically saying that, it is just a hobby.
You really, you don't have a career. It's just a hobby and. I had that mentality that maybe it was just a hobby, yet I was, it was, I was able to pay my bills, but that was about it, right? I wasn't making money and I was out having a good time. But it was my first at being an entrepreneur. So when I went, cause I went back to corporate it, and then I, when I went the next time, I was better prepared because I knew a lot of the hard parts that I'd already been through the struggles, and I knew that, I truly wanted to be an entrepreneur.
The second time I wasn't doing this because I thought it was a good time. I truly wanted to do it because I wanted to make a difference and I didn't want to. Setting a cubicle mind. I think you brought up
Jonathan Green: some really good points there. There's a lot of people that think entrepreneurship is super easy, push a button, the business starts, and then when they start it, it's such a surprise that it's hard.
We quit too soon. Or we approach it with the hobby or side hustle mindset. We don't take it seriously. And the thing I discovered is that it's not as hard as my old. But it's still hard. You still have to work every day. There's that old saying, right? You love your job. You never work your day in your life.
That doesn't feel true to me. I still work seven days a week. It sounds nice. I like what I do. I'm having a good time right now. Like I can't believe this is my job. I'm having fun hanging out with you, hearing a great story, but at the same time, I still have to be here, set up the lights, record everything.
Add all the sounds afterwards. Yeah, it's still a job. When we expect something to be hard, like we, college is so expensive and we expect college to be expensive, we expect college to be really hard. So you go into that mindset of it takes four years to learn something. But sometimes when people, I very few people go, oh, I'm gonna start a business.
I'm gonna put in four years and then make a decision. Most people right, they quit in the first six months, the first year cuz of that expectation. So I think that's very interesting that your first experience where you saw it as a hobby and honestly most people would love to have their own business.
That's replacing, that's covering the bills. That's amazing is your first try. But that's a win. Like for 90% of people, that's win. But it's that mindset of. It's gonna be fun, but it's also gonna be hard. It's there's this other saying you give up a 40 hour a week job working for someone else to work a hundred hours a week for yourself.
And that's, at least in my experience, is more true. Yeah.
Charles Johnston: That's a reality, right? I mean that is a reality. That's, and all the things that go into owning your own business and being an entrepreneur that they never. And that's where a lot of the hard part comes in. For example I went back, when I got laid off back in 2010, the first thing I did, I went back to school.
I'm like, I might as well finish my degree and whatnot. It never really has served me a purpose necessarily except for my own achievement. But . One thing they don't teach you in school when it comes to running a business is how to actually run your business, the day to day grind of marketing, payroll accounting for your time, responding to emails, answering the phone.
All the things, all these little nuances that they, their time sucks. They're valuable, don't get me wrong, but they take up time. and you don't necessarily have that in a 40 hour structured week that you do in a day job because that's cut and dry. You go to your job to perform a duty, and that is.
As an entrepreneur, you go to your job and you perform all your duties, everybody's job, cuz you're, your hr, your payroll you're all of that in one. And a lot of times you run out of days. You run out of hours in the day. Where, and that's where things start to get stressful. And things start to get where I, people are like, I can't do this anymore, is because they get to that point where they are so tapped out, so exhausted mentally, physic.
Emotionally, spiritually, that they're like, I cannot do this anymore. Maybe it's just easier to, for me to go back and get a real. And I think if they just get past that hurdle they're on the other side. And I've had those moments where I wanted to throw in the towel and I'm like, I can't do this.
But you just, you have to a true entrepreneur know that they have to suck it up. And there's bad moments that you're just gonna go through and there's peaks and valleys in all of it. And I think once we get through those valleys, there's definitely peaks on the other side that make it worth it, and I wouldn't change the thing.
Yeah.
Jonathan Green: There's this ability you have when you're an employee that at five o'clock you log out, you don't think about work until you're back in the office the next day, and. . I remember having that feeling a lot like 20 years ago. I don't know what that feels like anymore. Like I can't imagine not thinking about work, or I'm sitting by the kid with my pools.
I'm like, maybe I should shoot another TikTok. I'm always thinking of something or is there an email I need to respond to? Or how many interviews do I have tonight? It's I don't remember what it's like to not think about work seven days a week, but also I can. Go away from it. There's this feeling of when you're in the arena, you're the one that brings in the revenue, that pays for your team, that runs the cupboard that supports your family, and it's exciting, right?
When you close a deal or bring in a big client, that feeling of excitement makes all the other parts worth it, doesn't it? Yeah,
Charles Johnston: It really does. And you wanna tell everybody too when you have those big wins, and a lot of times people will never understand it. Even your spouses don't understand sometimes the big wins and they don't understand the focus and the time consumption either.
My, my wife has finally figured out, in order for me to truly disengage, she has to take me somewhere that has no internet and no cell. That's the only way she's gonna get me to truly disengage. Which is sad. But when you're running a business, you feel like you're constantly having to be connected to your business.
I have a good friend that, he disengaged and actually was able to walk away from his business for 30 days and take a trip with his family, which I think is incredible. And it's, that's the dream of every entre. But he's also been doing his business for 20 years to get there. And I'm almost six years in with my business and I'm still in the day to day, I'm in the weeds and I wish I could dis disconnect more.
Fortunately. My wife is very gracious and usually allows me to do things, when. They're not necessarily convenient for her , but she also knows that, I'm not gonna be sitting idle most of the time. I have a hard time sitting idle and, watching a TV all the way through TV show all the way through without picking up my phone and doing something.
And that's just the innates. Perception of being an entrepreneur, that you always have to be doing something that's moving that needle. Whether it's a social media post, whether it's another email, whether it's a text message, you have to always consistently be trying to move that needle once.
Jonathan Green: Yeah, it's so true cuz I know some people that like their entrepreneurs like, oh, I don't work on weekends. I'm like, what? What if a. What if a customer support email comes in, what if there's a big deal that comes in? Cuz sometimes the biggest thing coming on Saturday to Sunday, like I can't imagine that I think about that.
Yeah. And I'm very lucky. I work from home. We have a really great place like we've built to a really good lifestyle. But I can't imagine like I love what I do, but it is that challenge of spending enough time with Emma, spending enough time as a dad. Am I spend enough time as a husband? Am I getting the right balance?
But there's so much excitement in what we do. This has been really great time. I really appreciate you spending time with me, so this is really great. I know a lot of people are gonna be interested in your story cuz it's very inspiring saying, oh, I can switch from a full-time job and not go jump right out the boat to do that transition period where you start building it.
So that's really been amazing. Thank you for sharing your story. Where can people find out more from you? Where can they see more of what you're doing?
Charles Johnston: Obviously with my company we're on the website, which is hardware digital.com. I'd never even told you my company name. It's hardware, digital Solutions.
And I'm also on social media. Pretty much every, not every social media, but Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, tk Twitter. And there's a few others that we're a part of, but both as a brand as well as a person, I'm on pretty
Jonathan Green: much all. Okay, perfect. I'll make sure to put the link below the video and in the show notes.
Thank you so much for giving us your time, Charles. I really appreciate it.
Charles Johnston: I appreciate it, Jonathan. Thank you for having me.
Jonathan Green: Thanks for listening to today's episode. Making that first dollar online doesn't have to be daunting. I've got you covered. Get my free guide on how to make your first thousand dollars online right now@servemaster.com slash one k.
Charles Johnston: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Serve No Master Podcast. Make sure you subscribe so you never miss another. We'll be back next week with more tips and tactics on how to escape the rat race. Please take a moment to leave a review@servenomaster.com slash iTunes. It helps the show grow and more listeners means more content for you.
Thanks again and we'll see you next week.