Artificial Intelligence Podcast: ChatGPT, Claude, Midjourney and all other AI Tools

SNM245: Where to Meet Your Customers with Kyle Pucko

• Jonathan Green : Bestselling Author, Tropical Island Entrepreneur, 7-Figure Blogger

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Jonathan Green: Location, location, location, the importance of paying attention to where your customers are on today's episode. Today's episode is brought to you by Blue Host. Blue Host is where I host dozens of my websites, and it's the best solution for new websites. Don't break the bank with the bells, whistles, and fees that you just don't need.

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Announcer: Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you want to make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now. Then you've come to the right place. Welcome to Serve No Master Podcast, where you'll learn how to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep.

Presented, live from a tropical island in the South Pacific by best selling author Jonathan Green. Now, here's your host. 

Jonathan Green: Today we have very special guests, Kyle, and I'm really excited to talk about this topic, which is so interesting to me that we often don't think about. Cuz we often say, Hey, now that we have the internet, well who are your customers? Everybody. 

I wanna run ads to Australia. I wanna run ads to China. I wanna run ads to South Korea. And we get so excited by trying to target everyone and it's a very common mistake for new marketers, right? That we try and we say, who's your customer? Everybody or all men or all women. But it's very interesting to me that you really focus on geo targeting, which is targeting regions.

Can you tell me how you kind of got into that and how it became your passion, this very particular topic? 

Kyle Pucko: Yeah, totally. Thanks for the intro. Um, so first, excited to be here. Thanks for having me on the show. Um, Location, location, location. Yeah, you said it. Uh, I got really into geo targeting and geolocation in the marketing world with a big background in higher education.

Uh, so my career started with colleges and for those listeners out there, and for you, Jonathan, I dunno if you ever had this experience, but you go to a, to a college, uh, to a college financial aid page, and you see in-state tuition, And right below that you see out-of-state tuition. If you're a state school, um, what a terrible experience if you're visiting that university website from outta state.

Imagine just seeing, imagine if your pricing, you know, for your product was that way. Hey, this is your pricing for in-state. Oh. But if you're outta state, if you don't live in uh, Oklahoma, you live anywhere else, you have to pay three times as much. And that's what the experience was like. I was at the University of Montana here in Missoula, where we're based.

And, you know, just looking at some simple analytics, we could see that people from outta state were bouncing off of these pages. And I thought, wouldn't it be cool if when a user visited the University of Montana's homepage, they could see different content based on where they were visiting from? So it's important to understand, like, this is not a landing page.

This is not, uh, advertisements. This is just, this is happening on your existing website, um, for, for different people that visit. So, We had that idea. And then being an entrepreneur, I know a lot of listeners of yours are entrepreneurs, we said, well, let's go find that product. And when we couldn't find it, we got in trouble and tried to build it ourselves and that's where we are today. 

Jonathan Green: I think it's very interesting cuz most people think, uh, when I think of geotargeting or like, I think of the classic local business, like the one I know the most about is a martial arts studio. Nobody will travel more than five miles for karate or TaeKwonDo or jujitsu. So I always think of, that's the first thing I think of, but this is very interesting cuz I did my master's in England and I paid the foreigner rate and I could see that everyone else was paying 90% less.

But I also paid 90% less than doing it in America cuz. And it only takes nine months to get a master's in England. So instead of paying two years of tuition, it's one. And it was still significantly less than any American option of a similar quality university. Yeah. 

Kyle Pucko: And you probably, so I do. Yeah, and when you were applying to that university, it was probably a little tricky.

You know, you're like, okay, well I'm a US citizen. I'm trying to go to college abroad, and you know, you had to sort of meander through their website navigation to find, oh, here's the the exam that I need to take. Wouldn't it be cool if, hey, that university knew you were from the United States, so they just served that information to you immediately, rather than having to have you go and have that experience.

Jonathan Green: Yeah, the process was so different and that's what really surprised me in that. And of course you see the website and you see each category and the price goes up as you go down the page, you're like, is there a way I can move myself up a category? Right? Can I say, oh, my cousins are British, or like, my family was Ring England a thousand years.

You're like, you're trying to figure out a way to move up to the lower price category, right? Um, and that's, I do remember that part. And yeah, the process is so different. You don't have to take any of those exams. Like in America, you have to take the GRE or the LSAT or something for whatever your masters in England, they were like, no, if you want them, if you've got the money, come on in.

It was so different. I was like, oh, there's no amazing and 

Kyle Pucko: which is something to know too, right? Hey, this is actually simple. Yeah, 

Jonathan Green: Totally different process. And I was like, wait nine months to get a Master's in America. It's like two years or more, depending upon what you're doing. They're like, no, just get it done.

Start in the spring, done by Christmas and it was a great program, really quick, in and out, you know, and then you have this degree. No one cares, as you know very few people care where you went to college, right? Maybe your first job, they ask you, but no one's asked me in years. It doesn't matter, right? As long as it's like accredited.

You know, as long as you don't say non-accredited university, you're pretty much fine. But it is interesting. So for people, you know, as you know, my audience is all entrepreneurs. There are a lot of people in education. They're all people that are starting their own business and really thinking about that.

And how does this apply to like a, a business where someone's visiting your blog or visiting your website or your kind of general and like, what, at what phase of a business should maybe someone think about it? Like if you're just starting out, you're six months in, maybe it's too soon. But where does it start to matter?

I notice this a lot for physical product. I run into a lot of e-commerce issues cuz I live on a small island in Southeast Asia and I run into companies that go, oh, we won't ship to you no matter what you'll pay. I've had that conversation with a few companies and I'm like, oh, you're definitely not on commission.

Like, you can tell, I can tell when I'm talking to someone who's part owner because they'll make it happen. Um, but there's a lot. And then there's some companies that go, we'll get it to you no matter what. Like, we'll deal with you if not a. Because I'm paying in dollars. My money's in dollars. I have, my company's based in America, so I very much noticed this.

Where some people I'm like, and then there's some companies that actually block, I can't visit Home Depot's website, home Depot, really hardcore blocks outside of America and 

Kyle Pucko: Interesting. 

Jonathan Green: They're best at it. Like no matter how many, like I have to go through three VPNs if I wanna visit their website, they're like, no, foreigners are not allowed to look at our products.

So, that's their approach to it. And I'm reminded of when the GDPR came out, some people are like, oh, I'll just block Europeans from visit my website rather than learn how to deal with it. So, I know this was a really long question, but how, when should people start thinking about it and what's, for people that are in e-commerce or in digital marketing, what's the baseline? Where does it start? 

Kyle Pucko: Yeah. You know, your example of shipping is a really interesting one, and I'll give you a couple examples to, to answer that question. You know, one is we work with a self defense company. And each state in the United States, not even talking, shipping to an island in Southeast Asia, but each state in the United States has different regulations on how this product can be shipped to them.

So you know, our role at Geo Fli was when you reach that shipping page, we don't want you to get to the checkout page only to realize that. Oh, we actually can't send to you in Michigan, or, oh, we, you have to order 20 of these for us to be able to ship it in bulk. So right on the shipping page of this product, we let you know what your state regulations are.

You know, without you having to even select a state that just knows your IP address aligned with longitude puts you in Florida. That means, you know, anything goes right if you're, if you're in Florida, but anywhere else, uh, shipping regulations, uh, might apply. So, When is this right for a company? Uh, and you led the podcast off with of course that famous marketing, if your, if your customers are everybody, it's probably, you know, you're gonna reach nobody. So we are, we are no different at Geo fli. Um, you know, there are some companies, like your TaeKwonDo example, that's probably a great one. You're, you're not getting a lot of out-of-state traffic to come to your TaeKwonDo center on a Tuesday night in February.

Uh, but it's possible that you have, you know, different like metro versus rural customers. And, and you might be able to think about something like that, but we recognize that this is not for everybody. So I think it really, if you can answer this question, you know, do you have, do you know who your customers are and are they, you know, do they, are they all in the same location?

And if they come from different areas, do they behave differently? And for a lot of people, they, they might be nodding their heads. Our total, our total addressable market is large. You know, when you think about the different verticals that this is applicable for, you have higher education, you have tourism, you have e-commerce, like you mentioned, you have economic development, so many, uh, where people are looking for different things, you know, in the tourism industry.

If you're looking at flights into Jackson Hole and you work at the Jackson Hole or Jackson, Wyoming Economic Development Center, you might wanna talk differently to people on the East Coast and the West Coast, or you might wanna talk differently to people who can get to you via a direct flight versus somebody in the country that has to take three flights.

The stereotype is that Wyoming is so far, or Montana is so far, but there's actually a lot of direct flights, and so Geo flight can help you surface those flights. If somebody's visiting from Dallas for. Hey, we have direct flights into Montana. Other ways we've seen Geo flight work really well for medium sized businesses and small businesses, and perhaps some of your listeners and their businesses is location based testimonials.

So really simply what this means is somebody visits your website from, uh, from California. You might show a testimonial of somebody, a customer of yours who is from California. Hey, I used this product, or you know, I hired Heather virtually, or I bought this ebook and I'm in San Francisco. It's super applicable to the Airbnb market here, or whatever You wrote your ebook on location based testimonials can be really impactful and it's, and if done correctly, the end user doesn't really know that you're surfacing personalized content to them. It's not creepy, it's not spammy, it's not a popup. It just exists. And you might find yourself thinking, oh, this, this site is really relevant to me. 

Jonathan Green: That's really interesting because the most com, one of the most common questions I get is, does this product work for people outside America, no matter what product or course it is.

I get that question. It's a really common one. So it's always on our frequently asked questions. Cause people always go, does this, does it matter? Does this work? Does this TikTok product does blog work? I mean have blog works everywhere. Everyone has blogs, right? But you always get that question. And the second one is, does it work in non-English speaking countries?

Right? So first it's all for England and it's own from India. So having testimonials to answer that question. Cuz the best answer to any question is showing proof before they ask it. And I notice, especially with testimonials, people always look for the more the person, the testimonials like them, whether it's demographics, psychographics, location, then the more likely they are to go, oh, this will work for me.

Because people will message and it's, that's very interesting because people always ask questions like, well, I'm too old. And the next person goes, I'm too young. And the next person goes, I'm too skinny. And the next person goes, I'm too fat. I'm like, it can't be all of you. It has to work for somebody.

Right. But people do wanna know, will it work for me? And then they have their unique reason. So I think that's, that's really cool that the testimonials part. Um, what about actual like language? Cause I have seen, you know, one of the, I have to use this tool that always gives people the right time zone. We're always trying to tell people for a live event what it is in their time zone.

Because nobody knows how Mountain Time works, right? Nobody is ever really sure about mountain time cause or, and so you're always trying to adapt. That's the one when people get the wrong the most. Or there's another issue that, um, there are multiple time zones that have the same letters. CST can stand for Central and for Chinese standard time, so people can see did not, 

Kyle Pucko: I didn't even know that.

Jonathan Green: That comes up for me all the time. That comes up a lot that it, well, I, I, sometimes when I join a website, I go, Hey, it's showing cst, which is not my time zone, by the way, and I have to ask, I go, which one does that mean? I go, because it's the same letters for two time zones. Whoever thought of that as a, I do not appreciate that.

They should all have different letters. Right? And so I've had, I, every, even for this podcast, at least once a month, someone gets the time zone wrong. I send out multiple letters and I say all the time, I don't even say Eastern time because people go, it's not Eastern standard time, it's eastern daylight time now.

So I'll say New York time, whatever time it is in New York, that's the time. I mean, cuz I can't keep up with daylight saying we have it here. But that's just that like small issue really comes up a lot for me and for, there's that issue and there's also issues. 

Kyle Pucko: There are, there are definitely times when, wouldn't it be nice if your site could translate to, you know, the exact location that, that your visitor is, is visiting from?

We, we bill ourselves as a content replacement engine. So our competitors are not WordPress, our competitors are not wics, uh, our competitors are not even Google Translate. Uh, you know, we we're living in this section of sort of SAS products where we do one thing and we do it better than anybody. So we've been asked this question certainly before, Jonathan, when people are wondering, oh, location.

Yep. Uh, that, that melds nicely into translation. Where we might suggest or recommend instead that if you know that somebody is visiting your university website, I'll go back to universities. Um, we work with quite a few that are visiting from Japan, rather than maybe translate your entire website to Japanese, maybe just give a subtle hint that you're very welcoming to Japanese students and international students from Japan.

You could, for example, show here are some alumni that have graduated and now work in Japan. And on the language side, you could make a call to action button that is in Japanese and that might Oh, that's, that's kind of neat. You know, it's personalized for me. Um, because the way that the interface works for geo fli, you're actually looking at your own website and you can hover over it.

So there's this indicator that expands and contrasts based on the size of the element on your website that you're selecting. And you can pick, you know, your call to action or a video or an image or text and change that text to whatever you want. So it would be pretty cumbersome to go through the whole website and try to personalize it with language. However, I see, I see language being used strategically in some really cool ways using using geo fli. 

Jonathan Green: I think that's very interesting because I've dealt with translation issues in the past. We tried to translate some of my books, and the translator and the editor in the foreign language were fighting with each other over these.

It was in French. It was a whole thing. I'm like, well, I don't know. So I've always found translation stuff to be really challenging and to retranslate your entire website. What we learned having worked on that process before, is that if you're gonna have, let's say you have a bunch of stuff in Spanish, well now you have to have Spanish speakers on staff for when people call.

Cuz now they're gonna expect that you have to have Spanish speaking support, you have to have Spanish, all your emails, you have to send out emails in Spanish. You create this. Um, like it's really, you basically have to double the size of your company every time you open up a new language. Like people sometimes think it's really easy.

So I can understand why you're saying to be strategic. That's very interesting. I know there's a lot. Especially with some of the shifts in how the rules are for privacy cuz bef there was so much retargeting going on for a long time and I've even noticed that if you talk about something, it starts to appear in ads on your computer.

That's how you know your phone listened to you twenty four seven. And I know that there are some markers trying to get really sophisticated with their homepages by trying to guess who you are. Like trying to catch more information like your age, your gender, uh, your background, cuz then they have like a page that more and more customizes.

Do you think that that really worth the effort and that's the direction things are going. Cuz sometimes when I see something and I go, I, I am kind of repelled. If it seems like they pulled too much data from me, it starts to make me like a little uncomfortable. Especially because I'm hyper aware of it as a marketer that when I go, well, this is a bit much, I, I didn't do a search on this yet.

So it starts to appear. I'm wondering if that's like over the top, what do you think, what do you think the kind of line is as we move forward with technology? 

Kyle Pucko: That's, that's a really great question. When I think about marketing in 2022, I think about marketing even in 2015 when we, when we started this company, we have a quote, I think it's on our homepage, on Geo Flies homepage, that marketing is noisy and it's our job to help provide some clarity.

So terms we use a lot in the design of geo fli. And when we think about the end user experience is, uh, elegant, seamless, um, and remarkable. So these are three words that we toss around quite a bit. It is noisy, Jonathan. The, uh, the personalization, um, it's, it's noisy. And so, like I said before, if done correctly we're personalizing something in a way that doesn't feel noisy, it doesn't feel creepy.

Uh, you know, we all have similar experiences with popups on websites that want you to, you know, chat with them. And then when you x outta the chat, it comes up again on the next page. Uh, email subscriptions, bounce exchange, which as you're exiting, they know that you're intending to exit and they interrupt that process.

So it is noisy and, uh, repelled is a great word to describe the feeling that I think a lot of internet users are experiencing their, um, There is a balance, right? When you look at, okay, I have this balance exchange set up, so if somebody intends to leave my website, we don't have this, but I'm just saying marketers might look at this.

Somebody intends to leave my website, we catch 1% of people, you know, is it worth it to sort of get the emails from one out of every 100 people if the other 99%, or let's even say 30% are repelled, 50% are just annoyed. And the other, you know, 20% are sort of indifferent. Um, does that add up? 200? I think so.

Maybe your listeners can fact check us , but. That, that's one thing I would say. The other thing I would say is, as marketers, if you were to go to college and become a CPA, Certified Public Accountant or a lawyer, you take exams that qualify you for these roles. And in some ways they, they definitely do filter out folks that might not be qualified or just might not, um, have the ethics or, you know, can make it through a law school.

I think there's a similar test that marketers should need to take that qualify them, and that businesses around the globe recognize as sort of the, okay this marketer has taken, you know, maybe it's a, maybe it's an ethical test, maybe it's a privacy, uh, screening that, that they know that okay, they're gonna use this data for good.

And I know that those things are being tried in, in different states, uh, but I am concerned about it, You know, I want to be proud to be called a marketer instead of like shy away from it. And, um, it, it seems like it's leaning in this direction that boy, however many interruptions we can get away with, we should try.

If it means converting a, a new customer, I don't know that that's a long term formula for success. It might deliver some results short term, but certainly not long term. 

Jonathan Green: Yeah. You brought up something really interesting to me. I was talking earlier today to someone about my space, and I remember when I was in college, long before you were in college, every band had a MySpace page. Metallica had a MySpace page. Every big band and every small band didn't have a website. This is before I didn't have everyone, was to have a MySpace page. And then one day it was over for MySpace, and I've always believed that they added one too many ads to their website.

So they would add more and more and more ads. And it was after an acquisition. You know, whenever a company gets acquired, suddenly the ads get terrible right?. So the guy, the original guy did great. He had made a great website sold, and then immediately they started just increasing the ads to where more than 50% of your profile, someone's looking at your page.

Imagine if someone looks at your Facebook profile, and more than 50% of the real estate was ads. And I've seen the same thing happen. There was a phase, maybe four or five years ago where blogs were doing this, where there was a banner and a side bar and a call to action at the bottom, and people were just adding them.

And there used to be some web designs that specifically said, these are all the regions where you can put ads. And they were designed for like ads and it was like 13 zones of ads on the page. And I think that there is a thing where people push to see how many ads they can get away with. You know, now there's ads inside of Facebook conversation, or there's ads inside if you use Gmail, there's an ad inside of your, the emails you're sending to people, see emails, reading every private email you send. And if the line is when people get upset they've really pushed it. People put up with a lot now that we wouldn't have 20 years ago, like the thought of a company reading your email when I was 20.

No way people would've gone crazy. But now we're just kind of used to it. Like we just know that our privacy is constantly invaded. So I think you brought up something really interesting and as a marketer it is finding that balance to where we wanna give people a good experience and but we don't want to overly invasive, like I have to have all of these compliancy tools on my website.

I have to show people a different privacy page based on what country they're in. So I do have to use a geotargeting tool because the rules are different. Brazil has a different rule. The Portugal has a different rule. Greece has a different rule than England. Each of these countries, as they pass a new law, it's so hard as for me to keep up with the laws in every country.

I have to use software to do it. I just can't keep up. In America it was can't spam and then that the only thing that didn't stop was actual spam, right? And there's all these different rules and compliance is really complicated and it is interesting to think about the line, how can we give people a good experience without being overly invasive?

So I think what you're doing makes a lot of sense to me. I think this idea of giving people a good experience without trying to retranslate your entire website, and I definitely think that makes a lot of sense to stop showing people different prices cuz it becomes a different conversation. And to go back to what you started with to say, instead of it becoming, is this a good, is this the right fit for me, it becomes, well, am I getting a fair price compared to other students?

And that's a different conversation, right? So I remember when I was in high school, I wanted to go to University of Georgia. My friend got, me and my friend both applied for this really big scholarship and he got it. It was a full ride that included trips around the world, like a really cool one. And then they offered me in-state tuition, and I was like, well, that doesn't, 

Kyle Pucko: Yeah. Stacked up against that. I didn't feel great. Stepped down, right. 

Jonathan Green: But at the same time, the fact that it can even be an offer that you make to people. So I go, oh, I guess you don't even have to be in state. You give it to anyone. But it was very..

Kyle Pucko: Yeah, there's a lot of, there's definitely a lot of psychology and pricing, you know, it's that, oh, if I give you a hundred dollars and then I need to take 80 away, well, you're still up 20, but it feels like a great loss.

Um, yeah. But , yeah. And a and a couple things, you, you touched on a couple things there that I just wanna, that I just wanna mention. You know, the in-state versus out-of-state. If you can communicate to the out-of-state student, here's why your tuition is a little bit more than in-state, and just talk to them like a, like an intelligent young adult, which I'm sure they are, um, most of the time . But talk to them like an intelligent young adult and say, here's why. You know, sometimes outta state is, is higher, but heres some outta state scholarship opportunities available to you. Uh, they'll appreciate that and you can personalize that with Geo fli.

The other thing quickly, just to, to sort of put a bow on our conversation, um, about sort of the invasive nature of marketing in 2022, there are some platforms that can get away with this. Instagram, Facebook, you meta. They have found that we can send you emails, we can send you push notifications, and you will not delete our app, you know, from your phone.

Most of the time, you know, we, we've found that limit. Uh, some people are doing that, but then they, you know, you might notice, oh, maybe they'll pull back a little bit, but they'll find, they'll go right up to the edge because some users, some people at Facebook and meta are incentivized to how, you know, you have to get people to check 20 times a day, and there's great documentaries that can articulate that better than I can.

The other side of that is where are, if you're a company, if I'm Geo fli, And you know, you're running serve Noma, you know your your empire, right? And you say, okay, how do I acquire new users? You might look, you might not look at, well, maybe I need to run, you know, Google Map ads because I wanna be number 20 on the Google search result screen.

Or maybe I need to run Facebook conversation ads because I wanna be, I wanna serve a billion impressions that get two clicks. Marketers are really gonna have. It, it comes down to marketers. If marketers decide, well, the ads aren't effective, they're annoying, they're, and we've made this decision internally with a lot of different placements on Meta and Google is this just isn't effective.

You know, if we're doing our jobs as marketers and measuring the impact of these things and finding that, boy, you know, those discover placements that just came out and Facebook is trying to push you toward. They don't even, they don't even drive clicks. I don't even, I, I don't know what kind of impressions they're serving.

So you really have to start asking yourself, like, as it gets noisier and cr and, and noisier for the end user, does it make sense for us as marketers to spend money on these things? Or is a better use of my time spending 25 minutes talking to you? You know, hopefully providing you and your audience a little bit of value, teaching them maybe a little bit about Geo Fli and saving my money on Facebook, discover ads. 

Jonathan Green: Yeah, it is. There are so many ways to market. You know, there's text marketing and push notifications and app installs. And as every B2B offer gets pushed to me, like, oh, you need to have an app. Right? And I've tried it multiple times. My eyes doesn't want that.

Nobody listens to a podcast. How about this one? Nobody listens to a podcast on that podcast app. Nobody listens, has an app for one podcast. You know what I mean? But they're always trying to push that. You're saying, oh, you should do push notifications or text notifications. And for me those are things I don't really like to do a lot of, like if we're having a live event, we'll say, give us your phone number, we'll send you a text 20 before the event to remind you.

But then we don't send marketing messages after that. Like I've, cuz I hate when I get text messages, I hate receiving text marketing. But a friend of mine with a large company, his audience loves it. They love getting text notifications and they're really responding to them. Like really positively. 

Kyle Pucko: Yeah. I mean if I, if, if there's a brewery in town like, Hey, it's free Pint Thursday.

Hey thanks for the notification, you know, really appreciate it. And that would get people in, I'm sure that people can do that effectively. 

Jonathan Green: Exactly. So I think that the real lesson is that for every company it's kind of a different decision that what are the right tools for you and not the right tools for you.

Cuz I use marketing tools that other people don't use and vice versa. You know, we do a very specific advertising strategy. Um, that's basically what's the right platform for us, whereas our audience, and one of the big things for me is that I always get people visit my website and I can tell how old someone is without if just if they tell me what they think of my website, anyone under 40 tells me it looks lame.

And everyone under 40, over 40, which is my demo, is like, your website's amazing. It reminds me of the Sunday papers are read as a kid. So I was thinking it would be so interesting if when someone visits the website they see a completely different design just based on their age. Cuz then I could capture more of the younger market.

But it's designed to be what my audience wants. So I think that this has been really, really cool. I think there's a lot of interesting things you've talked about here that we don't often think about. We often say, oh, I don't like, oh, my website's new. I don't have to worry about website security. Or, oh, my company's new. I don't have to worry about doing, having a business tax idea and separating the business from my personal expenses. And then later on, you really regret that, right? There's all these decisions. So you often say, oh, I don't need to think about where my customers are coming from. And I think it actually.

Like we said at the beginning, if you try to appeal to everyone, it's not gonna work. Like knowing that your audience is a certain age or comes from a certain location, like yeah, I do have some customers from Australia and England and Canada, but it's 90% America. I'm American. That's who my audience, where they come from.

It's all English speakers. Very few non-English speakers find me, but, and that's okay. I think it's important for people to realize it's OK to not speak to everyone, cuz it's better to speak to the right people. So I think this was really helpful. This was really awesome, Kyle. 

Where can people find out more about you and kind of see what you're doing with Geo fli and kind of the other things you talk about on your website about the importance of location?

Kyle Pucko: Definitely. So our software product is Geo fli, G E O F L I. You can find that at geofli.com. And under that umbrella, we also have Piner Group, which is a marketing agency. We work with companies without a marketing team of their own. We do all sorts of things. We actually do podcasting services for them. We do, uh, some website design, email marketing, paid search paid Facebook.

Um, and, and we do those things. Uh, as I talked about, you know, we're, we're leaning away from it for some clients, but for others, have you read Traction by Gabe Weinberg? It's a good book. It gives you kind of a marketing framework. It talks about 19 traction channels. 

Jonathan Green: I haven't read it. Not that one. 

Kyle Pucko: It it's a good one. Traction. Yeah, traction. It's funny cuz we, we read that one too and we get them confused often. But this gives you a great model for anybody listening. It's traction by Gabe Weinberg, the founder of Duck, duck, go. Uh, and he gives you a great model for saying, listen, if everybody in your industry is using you know, article writing, maybe choose something else. Or if everybody in your industry is using Facebook ads, see if there are ways to go deeper in that channel to find undiscovered tactics and undiscovered strategies. Because that baseline sort of the path of least resistance, where Facebook wants you to just check, oh yeah, just use the automatic placements, automatic budgets that will lead you down a path of expense accounts.

Um, But you can go deeper. So our goal with our clients when we work with them is, you know, to help them, one, figure out geo personalization, of course, but two, help them figure out what are those channels, if it's a, you know, if it's an economic development firm, what are those channels on Google search that nobody in your vertical is using?

That gives you a real competitive advantage when you're spending marketing dollars. So pinergroup.com, geofli.com. And yeah, those are, those are our main two channels. 

Jonathan Green: Awesome. That's, we'll put those in the show notes and a description below the video. So thank you so much for being here. This was awesome.

Kyle Pucko: Yeah. Jonathan, thanks again for having me. 

Jonathan Green: Thank you for listening to the Serve No Master podcast. We give away amazing business bestsellers every single month. Head over to servenomaster.com/freebooks to see what we're giving away this month. 

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