{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":2.816,"endTime":4.417,"body":"Is AI as safe as we think it is?"},{"startTime":4.417,"endTime":8.63,"body":"Let's find out what's today's amazing special guest, Sonja Batten."},{"startTime":8.671,"endTime":19.45,"body":"Now Sonja, I'm excited, Sonja, I'm excited to have you here because we're so excited about"},{"startTime":8.671,"endTime":19.45,"body":"AI and we're kind of treating these incidents that have been happening like edge cases and"},{"startTime":19.45,"endTime":28.117,"body":"we already have people that are hurting themselves, hurting other people that have because"},{"startTime":19.45,"endTime":28.117,"body":"of incidents with AI and even people who have married AI."},{"startTime":28.117,"endTime":31.019,"body":"So we have the entire spectrum of different types of"},{"startTime":31.681,"endTime":33.721,"body":"parasocial situations."},{"startTime":33.721,"endTime":43.017,"body":"I guess the first concept I want to talk about, and there's so many things I want to go"},{"startTime":33.721,"endTime":43.017,"body":"over with you, is there's this idea that I've seen from AI companies that are like, you"},{"startTime":43.017,"endTime":46.829,"body":"can practice with an AI girlfriend before you get a real girlfriend."},{"startTime":47.17,"endTime":51.942,"body":"And I was like, tell any girl what was your ex like?"},{"startTime":51.942,"endTime":53.373,"body":"She was an AI."},{"startTime":53.513,"endTime":56.615,"body":"It's such a, every woman has that same reaction."},{"startTime":56.615,"endTime":58.135,"body":"And I think that"},{"startTime":59.478,"endTime":67.271,"body":"I wonder, here's what I wonder, if it's always gonna stay that way, but it used to be, I"},{"startTime":59.478,"endTime":67.271,"body":"remember when people meet online in the 90s, they'd say, okay, let's make up a story about"},{"startTime":67.271,"endTime":69.968,"body":"how we met because it's so unacceptable."},{"startTime":69.968,"endTime":75.553,"body":"Do you think we'll transition to a point where practice AI girlfriends become acceptable"},{"startTime":69.968,"endTime":75.553,"body":"or hopefully it always stays?"},{"startTime":75.553,"endTime":76.593,"body":"Don't do that."},{"startTime":77.9,"endTime":81.544,"body":"I have given up, first of all, thanks for having me on today."},{"startTime":81.544,"endTime":84.106,"body":"I'm excited to jump into this conversation too."},{"startTime":84.106,"endTime":95.316,"body":"uh I have given up on predicting what is and isn't gonna happen because I think whatever"},{"startTime":84.106,"endTime":95.316,"body":"you try to do that at this point, you're gonna be wrong."},{"startTime":95.316,"endTime":104.824,"body":"uh If I had to guess, I would say that probably your latter uh suggestion that like,"},{"startTime":105.321,"endTime":108.163,"body":"it may become acceptable in some way."},{"startTime":108.163,"endTime":110.405,"body":"I think that's within the realm of possibility."},{"startTime":110.405,"endTime":125.695,"body":"guess what I would say is that there may be actually a reasonable place for teaching"},{"startTime":110.405,"endTime":125.695,"body":"social skills in a safe, non-judgmental environment at first."},{"startTime":125.695,"endTime":134.71,"body":"I think that for that to be useful, a couple of things would have to be included with it."},{"startTime":134.716,"endTime":139.92,"body":"One is that the person who is, uh I'm gonna call it social skills training."},{"startTime":139.92,"endTime":155.09,"body":"So the person who's engaging in social skills training with the AI um would have to"},{"startTime":139.92,"endTime":155.09,"body":"understand that how the AI is responding may not be how a regular person would respond."},{"startTime":155.09,"endTime":162.995,"body":"Like doing some training around the fact that this person is probably always gonna agree"},{"startTime":155.09,"endTime":162.995,"body":"with you and gonna go along with what you say."},{"startTime":162.995,"endTime":164.066,"body":"um"},{"startTime":164.066,"endTime":172.06,"body":"So I think first having some pre-training with the person before they start so they"},{"startTime":164.066,"endTime":172.06,"body":"understand what the limitations are."},{"startTime":172.06,"endTime":186.368,"body":"over time making the chat bots be better about being like regular people as opposed to"},{"startTime":172.06,"endTime":186.368,"body":"going along with that very uh confirmatory sort of algorithm."},{"startTime":186.368,"endTime":192.888,"body":"uh then I think that having it just be like part"},{"startTime":192.888,"endTime":198.773,"body":"of the program, like part of the training where like, yeah, maybe you start there."},{"startTime":198.773,"endTime":211.275,"body":"uh But if it's really something that people want to practice, like there needs to be a"},{"startTime":198.773,"endTime":211.275,"body":"next step that's about coaching people to try it with a real person uh so that it doesn't"},{"startTime":211.275,"endTime":215.188,"body":"just stay there, that it goes to that next step."},{"startTime":216.886,"endTime":219.618,"body":"think you've hit on what I think is the core problem."},{"startTime":219.899,"endTime":231.791,"body":"People are imagining that AI is close to passing the Turing test, but only if you're"},{"startTime":219.899,"endTime":231.791,"body":"testing it to see if it's a psychopath, because the way it responds is it can mimic"},{"startTime":231.791,"endTime":233.423,"body":"emotions, but not feel emotions."},{"startTime":233.423,"endTime":236.175,"body":"And if you ask the right questions, you can tell right away."},{"startTime":236.576,"endTime":241.308,"body":"So we have this like..."},{"startTime":241.308,"endTime":243.67,"body":"pseudo emotion that comes from it, which is horrible."},{"startTime":243.67,"endTime":244.161,"body":"It's worse."},{"startTime":244.161,"endTime":247.394,"body":"I'd rather be robotic than fake emotions because it's just misleading."},{"startTime":247.394,"endTime":257.864,"body":"And that's really the problem that I have is that it's a tool not it's so far from pseudo"},{"startTime":247.394,"endTime":257.864,"body":"sentience from passing a Turing test from acting like a real person."},{"startTime":258.025,"endTime":260.227,"body":"Because um"},{"startTime":261.726,"endTime":267.305,"body":"It's trained on conflict avoidance, means that whatever you say, will agree with you."},{"startTime":267.327,"endTime":268.839,"body":"And you can see this in action."},{"startTime":268.839,"endTime":270.271,"body":"Anyone can try this."},{"startTime":272.011,"endTime":275.271,"body":"have the AI give you an answer and then tell it it's exactly wrong."},{"startTime":275.271,"endTime":276.911,"body":"And 99 % time they'll go, you're right."},{"startTime":276.911,"endTime":278.391,"body":"I don't know what I was thinking."},{"startTime":278.591,"endTime":281.491,"body":"And like, I've been married for a long time."},{"startTime":281.491,"endTime":283.071,"body":"That's never happened."},{"startTime":283.471,"endTime":285.131,"body":"It doesn't matter."},{"startTime":285.131,"endTime":291.191,"body":"Now, sometimes a few days later, there will be acknowledgement that I was right on the"},{"startTime":285.131,"endTime":291.191,"body":"rare occasions that I am."},{"startTime":291.191,"endTime":298.351,"body":"But this, what we're developing, and I think this is a critical problem in our society is"},{"startTime":291.191,"endTime":298.351,"body":"a fear of conflict."},{"startTime":298.491,"endTime":299.069,"body":"And"},{"startTime":299.069,"endTime":301.07,"body":"a misunderstanding of what a conflict is."},{"startTime":301.07,"endTime":305.901,"body":"have friends who believe a conflict is ordering a pizza on the phone."},{"startTime":306.619,"endTime":307.711,"body":"I'm like, that's not a conflict."},{"startTime":307.711,"endTime":311.862,"body":"That person is in alignment with you because you want to buy a pizza."},{"startTime":311.882,"endTime":313.242,"body":"They want to sell it."},{"startTime":313.443,"endTime":315.393,"body":"That's the opposite of conflict."},{"startTime":315.393,"endTime":317.524,"body":"And it's the same thing like, I don't want to make a reservation."},{"startTime":317.524,"endTime":318.964,"body":"What if they judge me?"},{"startTime":320.044,"endTime":326.426,"body":"And have you you've never met like, have you never met a person who works at a restaurant?"},{"startTime":326.426,"endTime":327.856,"body":"They don't care."},{"startTime":328.745,"endTime":329.285,"body":"You know what mean?"},{"startTime":329.285,"endTime":333.306,"body":"They want to know your name, how many people with time are coming and they won't remember"},{"startTime":329.285,"endTime":333.306,"body":"when you show up."},{"startTime":333.306,"endTime":338.397,"body":"But we have started to develop this like and it started with now I order my pizza by apps."},{"startTime":338.397,"endTime":347.54,"body":"I do reservation by apps and I do everything and our contact list delivery and we're"},{"startTime":338.397,"endTime":347.54,"body":"starting to create this culture where we never talk to other people and then you don't"},{"startTime":347.54,"endTime":351.12,"body":"develop the social skills and we're seeing that."},{"startTime":351.641,"endTime":356.462,"body":"I can tell you that if I my kids use their tablets too much, they their personalities go"},{"startTime":351.641,"endTime":356.462,"body":"bad."},{"startTime":357.042,"endTime":358.182,"body":"They just do."},{"startTime":358.647,"endTime":360.808,"body":"And it's very quick."},{"startTime":360.808,"endTime":364.97,"body":"You take away your kid's phone, they're bad for one day."},{"startTime":365.491,"endTime":367.712,"body":"And then they're like a different kid the next day."},{"startTime":367.892,"endTime":372.284,"body":"So my kids, if I take away their tablets, they go, okay, fine, we'll just go biking"},{"startTime":367.892,"endTime":372.284,"body":"together."},{"startTime":372.284,"endTime":374.275,"body":"And I'm like, cool punishment."},{"startTime":374.536,"endTime":375.556,"body":"You're doing what I wanted."},{"startTime":375.556,"endTime":378.918,"body":"Like you're outside exercising and spending time together and helping each other."},{"startTime":378.918,"endTime":380.209,"body":"Yeah, you really got me."},{"startTime":380.209,"endTime":382.2,"body":"But that's, it's that big of a shift."},{"startTime":382.2,"endTime":386.642,"body":"So that's the problem is that I..."},{"startTime":387.172,"endTime":396.285,"body":"old in my 40s, I've been through a lot of relationships I can detect when someone is like"},{"startTime":387.172,"endTime":396.285,"body":"messing with me much better than a nine year old 12 year old 15 year old can."},{"startTime":396.285,"endTime":409.089,"body":"And that's the problem is that if you've never been gaslit or had someone kind of minutely"},{"startTime":396.285,"endTime":409.089,"body":"manipulate you, which AI is very, good at, then you will you have no idea what's"},{"startTime":409.089,"endTime":409.989,"body":"happening."},{"startTime":409.989,"endTime":413.419,"body":"And you can start to get pulled into these things which are"},{"startTime":413.419,"endTime":414.279,"body":"very, very dangerous."},{"startTime":414.279,"endTime":415.579,"body":"I think that's the problem."},{"startTime":415.579,"endTime":425.719,"body":"think this desire to, especially because they're trying to create like different versions"},{"startTime":415.579,"endTime":425.719,"body":"of AI for teens, adults, and like super adults, whatever it should be like, stop pushing"},{"startTime":425.719,"endTime":428.999,"body":"it towards emotion, just make it a very good tool."},{"startTime":429.079,"endTime":434.599,"body":"It's like I've noticed because I will, I curse at my AI a lot, like a lot."},{"startTime":434.599,"endTime":436.779,"body":"I don't ever curse to humans."},{"startTime":436.779,"endTime":437.859,"body":"I don't."},{"startTime":437.859,"endTime":440.979,"body":"And the reason I do this is because"},{"startTime":441.082,"endTime":444.326,"body":"When you curse at the AI, the next response is better."},{"startTime":444.968,"endTime":446.94,"body":"That's their mistake, not mine."},{"startTime":446.94,"endTime":449.212,"body":"This is a new thing in the past few months for me."},{"startTime":449.454,"endTime":459.449,"body":"Well, that's like I've heard that if you're like if you're calling, you know, the pharmacy"},{"startTime":449.454,"endTime":459.449,"body":"or whatever and you're trying to get to a representative, I've heard that like if you"},{"startTime":459.449,"endTime":464.532,"body":"curse at the FedEx helpline, it'll get you to a representative."},{"startTime":466.014,"endTime":473.937,"body":"Well, that's the thing is I think maybe I used to I don't know if it still does like it"},{"startTime":466.014,"endTime":473.937,"body":"used to be one of the tricks was that AI wouldn't curse."},{"startTime":474.117,"endTime":480.7,"body":"But lately, it's now started talking to me with a lot of cursing, but it talks like a"},{"startTime":474.117,"endTime":480.7,"body":"crypto bro."},{"startTime":481.08,"endTime":484.871,"body":"It's like, oh, and then bad word, bro, so sorry."},{"startTime":484.871,"endTime":487.342,"body":"And like, that's not how I talk out."},{"startTime":487.342,"endTime":489.183,"body":"So it's like even worse."},{"startTime":489.303,"endTime":494.545,"body":"It's like a final smear of like the worst reflection of myself like, my gosh, is that how"},{"startTime":489.303,"endTime":494.545,"body":"I talk?"},{"startTime":494.942,"endTime":499.705,"body":"I'm already paranoid about my accent and then this is happening."},{"startTime":499.705,"endTime":506.429,"body":"that's, but that's the first area is kind of that um it's pseudo emotion and it's the"},{"startTime":499.705,"endTime":506.429,"body":"Chinese room test."},{"startTime":506.749,"endTime":519.928,"body":"and I think that it's like, uh the problem isn't that AI sounds human, it's that it acts"},{"startTime":506.749,"endTime":519.928,"body":"like it's a human, but it's when we're talking about mental health issues and things where"},{"startTime":519.928,"endTime":528.798,"body":"it can actually get dicey, it's doing that without any judgment yet as to whether or not"},{"startTime":519.928,"endTime":528.798,"body":"this is gonna be helpful."},{"startTime":528.798,"endTime":533.36,"body":"uh And like you say, to somebody who"},{"startTime":533.436,"endTime":544.966,"body":"uh maybe socially isolated or young or lonely or not have as much sort of social"},{"startTime":533.436,"endTime":544.966,"body":"interaction history."},{"startTime":544.966,"endTime":552.792,"body":"uh They don't realize that, it sounds human enough, but this is not how things really"},{"startTime":554.473,"endTime":556.993,"body":"So I've dealt with depression a lot in my life."},{"startTime":556.993,"endTime":558.573,"body":"I've written two books about depression."},{"startTime":558.573,"endTime":559.733,"body":"It's a big topic for me."},{"startTime":559.733,"endTime":561.153,"body":"It's one reason I want to talk to you."},{"startTime":561.153,"endTime":569.633,"body":"what happens when I cycle, it's best I can tell as myself, is that you go through phases"},{"startTime":561.153,"endTime":569.633,"body":"and you go like further and further down the cycle."},{"startTime":569.633,"endTime":573.833,"body":"And the problem with AI is that it's an accelerant."},{"startTime":573.833,"endTime":577.312,"body":"So whatever you say, it will agree with you."},{"startTime":577.961,"endTime":582.121,"body":"If I say my wife and I had a fight today, but I think we're going to work it out, it's"},{"startTime":577.961,"endTime":582.121,"body":"going to be probably are."},{"startTime":582.121,"endTime":584.841,"body":"And if I go, my wife and I had a fight today, I think she's cheating on me."},{"startTime":584.841,"endTime":587.161,"body":"It's, know, Hey, you might be right."},{"startTime":587.621,"endTime":592.121,"body":"And you see how whatever you say, it makes it cycle a little faster."},{"startTime":592.741,"endTime":596.541,"body":"biggest danger of depression in my personal experience is isolation."},{"startTime":597.161,"endTime":602.281,"body":"So I used to have this friend when I had bad depression, who was not in a financially good"},{"startTime":597.161,"endTime":602.281,"body":"situation."},{"startTime":602.281,"endTime":604.701,"body":"And I would call him, I'd say, listen, I'm depressed."},{"startTime":604.701,"endTime":605.881,"body":"We're going to the batting cages."},{"startTime":605.881,"endTime":606.721,"body":"We're going to the arcade."},{"startTime":606.721,"endTime":607.981,"body":"We're going to the movies."},{"startTime":608.073,"endTime":610.793,"body":"we're having a Jonathan depression day and he's like, yay."},{"startTime":610.913,"endTime":615.753,"body":"So he's having like it would base and it was like, he'd be in such a good I'm like, I'm"},{"startTime":610.913,"endTime":615.753,"body":"paying for everything."},{"startTime":615.753,"endTime":618.213,"body":"So he would have an amazing day, right?"},{"startTime":618.213,"endTime":622.353,"body":"And it would pull me into an amazing but it's really hard to be the batting cages and be"},{"startTime":618.213,"endTime":622.353,"body":"depressed."},{"startTime":622.353,"endTime":625.213,"body":"And it's usually if you just say it, once you say it, it breaks the cycle."},{"startTime":625.213,"endTime":630.753,"body":"But if you say it, because it's like, it's so uninteresting to other people when you're"},{"startTime":625.213,"endTime":630.753,"body":"depressed."},{"startTime":630.753,"endTime":632.613,"body":"They're like, great, let's talk about anything."},{"startTime":632.613,"endTime":634.88,"body":"It's kind of, it's almost as bad as talking about a dream."},{"startTime":635.036,"endTime":639.678,"body":"So as soon as you do it breaks the cycle, but AI, like, you know, let's dive into it,"},{"startTime":635.036,"endTime":639.678,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":639.739,"endTime":643.941,"body":"But that's kind of the difference between a human reaction or AI reaction."},{"startTime":643.941,"endTime":646.352,"body":"I think that was my critical discovery."},{"startTime":646.352,"endTime":653.786,"body":"That really has made a huge difference in my life is that I say it right away and people,"},{"startTime":646.352,"endTime":653.786,"body":"I've never had anyone care."},{"startTime":653.786,"endTime":656.207,"body":"Like no one goes, I care about your depression."},{"startTime":656.207,"endTime":657.198,"body":"I go, I'm feeling depressed."},{"startTime":657.198,"endTime":658.218,"body":"We have to do this."},{"startTime":658.218,"endTime":659.549,"body":"And they'll go, okay."},{"startTime":659.549,"endTime":663.795,"body":"But I figured out if the second thing is always something awesome, batting cages, movies."},{"startTime":663.795,"endTime":670.733,"body":"We're going surfing, whatever the thing is, because then it's hard because I want to do"},{"startTime":663.795,"endTime":670.733,"body":"something that takes enough attention that I forget I'm depressed."},{"startTime":671.334,"endTime":673.194,"body":"And so if my brain is too busy."},{"startTime":673.194,"endTime":676.276,"body":"yeah, you've hit on two really critical things."},{"startTime":676.276,"endTime":679.418,"body":"Now I'm gonna rephrase what you said in psychology terms."},{"startTime":679.418,"endTime":688.364,"body":"uh So the first thing that you talked about is what we call in mental health, rumination."},{"startTime":688.364,"endTime":694.897,"body":"Rumination, if you go back to like where that word comes from, it's like how a cow digests"},{"startTime":688.364,"endTime":694.897,"body":"grass."},{"startTime":694.897,"endTime":703.934,"body":"Like it eats the grass and then it like goes into its stomach and then it comes back up"},{"startTime":694.897,"endTime":703.934,"body":"and it chews it some more and then it goes back into its stomach and it chews it some"},{"startTime":703.934,"endTime":704.404,"body":"more."},{"startTime":704.404,"endTime":708.087,"body":"So imagine that cycle but with your depressive thoughts."},{"startTime":708.087,"endTime":714.671,"body":"Like that's sort of what you're describing is you start having those depressive thoughts"},{"startTime":708.087,"endTime":714.671,"body":"and you like digest it and then you chew on it some more."},{"startTime":714.671,"endTime":719.955,"body":"You digest it and chew on it some more and it just like feeds on itself and you get more"},{"startTime":714.671,"endTime":719.955,"body":"and more depressed."},{"startTime":719.955,"endTime":721.146,"body":"And so."},{"startTime":721.146,"endTime":723.658,"body":"That happens without AI, the rumination."},{"startTime":723.658,"endTime":726.541,"body":"You're talking about that from your own personal experience."},{"startTime":726.541,"endTime":736.789,"body":"And what if talking to the AI about your depression actually, like you're saying, could"},{"startTime":726.541,"endTime":736.789,"body":"accelerate that rumination and take it further faster?"},{"startTime":736.789,"endTime":738.991,"body":"So that, I think, is a core problem."},{"startTime":738.991,"endTime":742.404,"body":"The other thing that you're talking about is a potential solution."},{"startTime":742.404,"endTime":750.362,"body":"And we know this from, there's actually tons of research right now that for mild to"},{"startTime":742.404,"endTime":750.362,"body":"moderate depression,"},{"startTime":750.362,"endTime":760.259,"body":"something called behavioral activation is just as effective as uh any other cognitive"},{"startTime":750.362,"endTime":760.259,"body":"behavioral therapy, but also as medication."},{"startTime":760.259,"endTime":768.265,"body":"And behavioral activation is just exactly what you talked about about your depression"},{"startTime":760.259,"endTime":768.265,"body":"days, where you just get up and do something."},{"startTime":768.265,"endTime":778.582,"body":"So just activating behaviorally actually is a very effective first start, jump start for"},{"startTime":768.265,"endTime":778.582,"body":"people with mild to moderate depression."},{"startTime":778.926,"endTime":785.581,"body":"It's actually though, not what's happening if you're sitting there talking to your phone"},{"startTime":778.926,"endTime":785.581,"body":"and talking to your AI."},{"startTime":785.581,"endTime":788.864,"body":"That's like the opposite of behavioral activation."},{"startTime":788.864,"endTime":792.787,"body":"That's all that's doing is just sort of facilitating the brumination."},{"startTime":792.787,"endTime":804.916,"body":"And it's, you're probably gonna be even less likely to get out into the world and start"},{"startTime":792.787,"endTime":804.916,"body":"behaving and start doing those things that are gonna naturally start to undo some of that"},{"startTime":804.916,"endTime":805.866,"body":"depression."},{"startTime":807.525,"endTime":816.669,"body":"And my experience has always been that earlier in the cycle, a cycle of depression, the"},{"startTime":807.525,"endTime":816.669,"body":"earlier I take action, the easier it is to solve it."},{"startTime":816.669,"endTime":822.171,"body":"So because I enter a phase I call the malaise, where it's like you go, I don't want to"},{"startTime":816.669,"endTime":822.171,"body":"talk to anyone."},{"startTime":822.171,"endTime":823.211,"body":"I don't want to do anything."},{"startTime":823.211,"endTime":825.562,"body":"And you're actually making you're like trapped in like a fog."},{"startTime":825.562,"endTime":828.063,"body":"It's like a fog slowly rising up your body."},{"startTime":828.063,"endTime":832.345,"body":"So the sooner you do something, even though you don't want to."},{"startTime":832.345,"endTime":835.141,"body":"And that's the core issue is that um"},{"startTime":835.141,"endTime":839.714,"body":"The earlier into what can happen, you start talking to AI and you're going to actually not"},{"startTime":835.141,"endTime":839.714,"body":"realize it."},{"startTime":839.714,"endTime":846.298,"body":"It's the fog is coming faster and that you're not going to go out and it kind of it gives"},{"startTime":839.714,"endTime":846.298,"body":"you the illusion of a conversation."},{"startTime":846.298,"endTime":848.239,"body":"But because it can't."},{"startTime":848.96,"endTime":851.421,"body":"It will never tell you to shut up."},{"startTime":852.322,"endTime":858.756,"body":"Which is where it sounds, it's like the best thing someone can do for me is like, like I"},{"startTime":852.322,"endTime":858.756,"body":"don't want to talk about your depression."},{"startTime":858.756,"endTime":860.808,"body":"Let's talk about anything because nobody does."},{"startTime":860.808,"endTime":865.3,"body":"Only therapists do, and that's why they're expensive, because listen to someone talk about"},{"startTime":860.808,"endTime":865.3,"body":"depression is depressing."},{"startTime":865.435,"endTime":868.287,"body":"So that's a critical thing is that it will cycle with you."},{"startTime":868.287,"endTime":875.72,"body":"And I think that's why, especially for younger people, what we're doing now is the same"},{"startTime":868.287,"endTime":875.72,"body":"thing that happened with television in the eighties."},{"startTime":875.841,"endTime":881.303,"body":"In the eighties, parents are just putting you in front of the TV for the day and be like,"},{"startTime":875.841,"endTime":881.303,"body":"that's your babysitter now."},{"startTime":881.624,"endTime":885.346,"body":"And it didn't turn out that great for everyone, right?"},{"startTime":885.346,"endTime":887.757,"body":"It kind of led to, it's led to all these different issues."},{"startTime":887.757,"endTime":889.518,"body":"And certainly for me, changed my personality."},{"startTime":889.518,"endTime":891.209,"body":"I was a kid, I went bad."},{"startTime":891.209,"endTime":893.73,"body":"Try to watch in more action shows and I can."},{"startTime":893.831,"endTime":900.391,"body":"It's not just kids, like I can tell what my wife has been watching based on her behavior"},{"startTime":893.831,"endTime":900.391,"body":"and it's the same for me."},{"startTime":900.391,"endTime":907.551,"body":"If I'm reading like a scary serial killer book, I'm more nervous walking around the house"},{"startTime":900.391,"endTime":907.551,"body":"or watching one of those shows."},{"startTime":907.551,"endTime":908.931,"body":"Like it affects me."},{"startTime":908.931,"endTime":911.651,"body":"So there's definitely, if it can affect me, it can affect it."},{"startTime":911.651,"endTime":913.291,"body":"Three year old, five year old, 10 year old, 12 year old."},{"startTime":913.291,"endTime":920.331,"body":"we're kind of cavalier, unfortunately, already with the internet about what we let our"},{"startTime":913.291,"endTime":920.331,"body":"kids have access to."},{"startTime":920.812,"endTime":921.782,"body":"how it can affect them."},{"startTime":921.782,"endTime":931.36,"body":"We've already seen stories about Facebook causing children to self harm and we're now"},{"startTime":921.782,"endTime":931.36,"body":"we're seeing with AI there's some incidents that are in court right now which I have a"},{"startTime":931.36,"endTime":940.697,"body":"feeling they're going to go against the AI because it definitely did it like for sure"},{"startTime":931.36,"endTime":940.697,"body":"because I've had it say it to me and we've seen so many incidents of it and it's really"},{"startTime":940.697,"endTime":946.531,"body":"really hard because we have created this idea I think"},{"startTime":946.606,"endTime":948.477,"body":"That AI is like the encyclopedia."},{"startTime":948.477,"endTime":951.439,"body":"Like when I was a kid, encyclopedia Britannica was it."},{"startTime":951.439,"endTime":953.74,"body":"If you had those, you were, you're going to be smart."},{"startTime":953.74,"endTime":957.372,"body":"You have this amazing resources for those, for those of you younger."},{"startTime":957.372,"endTime":958.893,"body":"That's before there was internet."},{"startTime":958.893,"endTime":967.457,"body":"You had books and you would, if you couldn't afford them, you'd pay like one book a month,"},{"startTime":958.893,"endTime":967.457,"body":"you'd get a, and the next month you'd get B."},{"startTime":967.577,"endTime":969.412,"body":"And I mean, I read, I think the whole thing."},{"startTime":969.412,"endTime":972.223,"body":"So we think about how little information was in that compared to Wikipedia."},{"startTime":972.223,"endTime":974.841,"body":"It's like insane, but you."},{"startTime":974.841,"endTime":984.206,"body":"But we treat the AI like it's this infallible resource and that whatever it says will be"},{"startTime":974.841,"endTime":984.206,"body":"true, that it could never misdiagnose you, that it could never be wrong."},{"startTime":984.206,"endTime":992.01,"body":"And there was a test, someone did a study recently about em if someone's in crisis, will"},{"startTime":984.206,"endTime":992.01,"body":"the AI give you the hotline?"},{"startTime":992.851,"endTime":1001.676,"body":"And there's a misunderstanding, I think, and most people have this, of like, is this"},{"startTime":992.851,"endTime":1001.676,"body":"person having an emergency?"},{"startTime":1002.576,"endTime":1004.033,"body":"And it's"},{"startTime":1004.033,"endTime":1005.734,"body":"It could be very subtle if you're not trained."},{"startTime":1005.734,"endTime":1008.445,"body":"There's like a different, like there's a time to tell someone, hey, you're great."},{"startTime":1008.445,"endTime":1010.616,"body":"And this time to go, you need to call the number."},{"startTime":1011.337,"endTime":1011.837,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1011.837,"endTime":1016.199,"body":"Because there's a certain situation that I'm incapable of handling."},{"startTime":1016.199,"endTime":1018.0,"body":"So I'm not trained in that way."},{"startTime":1018.24,"endTime":1027.995,"body":"And I had a friend in college who, you know, killed themselves and it like devastated me"},{"startTime":1018.24,"endTime":1027.995,"body":"because I was one of the last, I was, I might've been the last person he talked to."},{"startTime":1027.995,"endTime":1029.076,"body":"Like we couldn't remember perfectly."},{"startTime":1029.076,"endTime":1032.307,"body":"I was definitely, he spoke to me five minutes before he did it."},{"startTime":1032.728,"endTime":1033.868,"body":"And it's like,"},{"startTime":1033.869,"endTime":1037.951,"body":"I would do any if it was a view of back in time, I would do that."},{"startTime":1038.312,"endTime":1039.673,"body":"We were not that good of friends."},{"startTime":1039.673,"endTime":1040.724,"body":"This was a friend of a friend."},{"startTime":1040.724,"endTime":1041.924,"body":"But I would this is the thing."},{"startTime":1041.924,"endTime":1044.857,"body":"If I could go back and do one thing, that's the thing I would do."},{"startTime":1044.857,"endTime":1046.977,"body":"And if he had just said something and."},{"startTime":1047.779,"endTime":1050.62,"body":"But it's also very possible that there's nothing I could have done."},{"startTime":1050.801,"endTime":1052.261,"body":"Outside my skill set, but there's this."},{"startTime":1052.261,"endTime":1055.689,"body":"um The AI."},{"startTime":1056.184,"endTime":1062.408,"body":"Doesn't has the same promise in that scenario, which is about as sometimes it's wrong and"},{"startTime":1056.184,"endTime":1062.408,"body":"you can't tell."},{"startTime":1062.807,"endTime":1070.379,"body":"If someone is serious or not serious, sometimes I've misinterpreted where someone else has"},{"startTime":1062.807,"endTime":1070.379,"body":"done a reach for help and I missed it."},{"startTime":1070.459,"endTime":1071.739,"body":"Someone else in my life I missed it."},{"startTime":1071.739,"endTime":1074.84,"body":"Fortunately, we caught it before it got really bad, but these things happen."},{"startTime":1074.84,"endTime":1078.661,"body":"It's really sometimes people give you one clue."},{"startTime":1079.561,"endTime":1085.482,"body":"And if AI is going to be in this situation, this is why it's really challenging,"},{"startTime":1079.561,"endTime":1085.482,"body":"especially for younger people, especially for my kids."},{"startTime":1085.482,"endTime":1086.233,"body":"I have five kids."},{"startTime":1086.233,"endTime":1087.073,"body":"I'm very aware of this."},{"startTime":1087.073,"endTime":1089.363,"body":"Like I get my kids very limited access to AI."},{"startTime":1089.363,"endTime":1091.074,"body":"Basically almost none."},{"startTime":1091.074,"endTime":1092.694,"body":"We make color books with AI."},{"startTime":1093.113,"endTime":1095.255,"body":"And people are so shocked because I'm an AI person."},{"startTime":1095.255,"endTime":1098.457,"body":"I know that's why I'm aware of how dangerous it is."},{"startTime":1098.457,"endTime":1104.182,"body":"And just like I'm very, um I very much control what my kids can watch."},{"startTime":1104.182,"endTime":1106.304,"body":"I don't let them have access to the internet."},{"startTime":1106.304,"endTime":1106.878,"body":"I try."},{"startTime":1106.878,"endTime":1108.373,"body":"I mean, they're always find ways around it."},{"startTime":1108.373,"endTime":1110.867,"body":"They're very sneaky, but most of the time they watch a movie."},{"startTime":1110.867,"endTime":1112.919,"body":"Like last night they were watching an earnest movie."},{"startTime":1112.919,"endTime":1113.199,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":1113.199,"endTime":1114.37,"body":"Because I've seen it 10 times."},{"startTime":1114.37,"endTime":1115.771,"body":"I know what happens."},{"startTime":1116.332,"endTime":1119.554,"body":"So I don't, if I walk out of the room, there's not going to be a surprise."},{"startTime":1119.574,"endTime":1122.286,"body":"And that's the important thing for me."},{"startTime":1122.286,"endTime":1122.957,"body":"They watch Mr."},{"startTime":1122.957,"endTime":1124.879,"body":"Rogers all day long and."},{"startTime":1125.22,"endTime":1132.258,"body":"With new stuff or with AI stuff, if you don't know what's happening, they can be in a"},{"startTime":1125.22,"endTime":1132.258,"body":"situation like I don't know if you've seen the new Avatar movie."},{"startTime":1132.686,"endTime":1133.539,"body":"Mm-mm."},{"startTime":1134.02,"endTime":1136.9,"body":"a puts a gun in his mouth."},{"startTime":1137.6,"endTime":1139.5,"body":"And I was like, what?"},{"startTime":1140.5,"endTime":1144.02,"body":"I was like, well, now I'm gonna have to talk to the kids about that one."},{"startTime":1144.02,"endTime":1151.04,"body":"fortunately, two scenes later, they showed a birth way too graphically, so it erased the"},{"startTime":1144.02,"endTime":1151.04,"body":"memory."},{"startTime":1151.04,"endTime":1153.38,"body":"So now all the questions are about where babies come from."},{"startTime":1153.38,"endTime":1154.78,"body":"I was like, well, now they know."},{"startTime":1155.12,"endTime":1161.08,"body":"I mean, I guess it's because it's a blue alien, you know, those two scenes so shocked me."},{"startTime":1161.08,"endTime":1163.548,"body":"Like, what are you?"},{"startTime":1163.832,"endTime":1165.443,"body":"So when people are like, why is no one seeing it?"},{"startTime":1165.443,"endTime":1177.498,"body":"That's why if you're wondering though, like to it wasn't an adult with PTSD in a movie"},{"startTime":1165.443,"endTime":1177.498,"body":"would already be tough enough to talk about, but a teenager dealing with the loss of their"},{"startTime":1177.498,"endTime":1177.868,"body":"brother."},{"startTime":1177.868,"endTime":1183.04,"body":"And I mean, fully you think I thought he was going to do it."},{"startTime":1183.12,"endTime":1184.291,"body":"Very convincing in the movie."},{"startTime":1184.291,"endTime":1186.061,"body":"And I'm like, this is not."},{"startTime":1186.742,"endTime":1188.443,"body":"But also, you know what?"},{"startTime":1188.443,"endTime":1192.285,"body":"I also think it's forcing you to discuss a topic that's worth discussing."},{"startTime":1192.285,"endTime":1194.045,"body":"Right, but this is the thing, right?"},{"startTime":1194.045,"endTime":1196.805,"body":"It has to be with parental supervision."},{"startTime":1196.805,"endTime":1209.565,"body":"I mean, I think that that's one thing that I know just from talking to my friends is that"},{"startTime":1196.805,"endTime":1209.565,"body":"a lot of people my age, your age, they actually, I mean, there are a fair number of people"},{"startTime":1209.565,"endTime":1217.325,"body":"who are early adopters, middle adopters, getting into it now, but there are actually a lot"},{"startTime":1209.565,"endTime":1217.325,"body":"of people who are like, I don't know anything about that AI."},{"startTime":1217.325,"endTime":1218.285,"body":"And so you know what?"},{"startTime":1218.285,"endTime":1219.625,"body":"Your kids are gonna figure it out."},{"startTime":1219.625,"endTime":1221.588,"body":"And if you're not figuring it out,"},{"startTime":1221.722,"endTime":1228.575,"body":"with them and supervising it with them, bad things are gonna happen because it's gonna"},{"startTime":1221.722,"endTime":1228.575,"body":"keep going."},{"startTime":1228.575,"endTime":1234.137,"body":"uh And I think that, um so I think this supervision part is really important."},{"startTime":1234.137,"endTime":1249.964,"body":"think that mental health is such a high stakes issue when it comes to what AI can do, will"},{"startTime":1234.137,"endTime":1249.964,"body":"do, et cetera, that my hope is that"},{"startTime":1250.202,"endTime":1268.468,"body":"because it's so high stakes, like maybe it's going to motivate us and the companies and"},{"startTime":1250.202,"endTime":1268.468,"body":"the programmers to really take a look at some of these things in ways that will help lower"},{"startTime":1268.468,"endTime":1273.592,"body":"stakes users like education."},{"startTime":1273.592,"endTime":1275.923,"body":"or customer service or things like that."},{"startTime":1275.923,"endTime":1288.126,"body":"Like we have to learn how to pick up on some of these nuances uh and train the AI in a"},{"startTime":1275.923,"endTime":1288.126,"body":"different way that's not just agreeing and keeping things moving forward."},{"startTime":1288.126,"endTime":1298.039,"body":"You one of the things I talk about, you talked about that, uh you know, terrible"},{"startTime":1288.126,"endTime":1298.039,"body":"experience you had where you feel like, did you miss something with, you know, with your"},{"startTime":1298.039,"endTime":1299.62,"body":"friend who died by suicide?"},{"startTime":1299.62,"endTime":1301.453,"body":"And so many people have that."},{"startTime":1301.453,"endTime":1306.127,"body":"experience and I think you're exactly right that you can't always predict it."},{"startTime":1306.127,"endTime":1313.403,"body":"Even we as humans obviously do generally a pretty bad job at predicting when somebody's at"},{"startTime":1306.127,"endTime":1313.403,"body":"risk."},{"startTime":1313.423,"endTime":1326.234,"body":"And there is more that we can do at the same time, you know, which is that when you do"},{"startTime":1313.423,"endTime":1326.234,"body":"hear something that could be a signal, what I tell people is like, ask the awkward"},{"startTime":1326.234,"endTime":1328.536,"body":"question, you know, if"},{"startTime":1328.536,"endTime":1337.75,"body":"If there's something that you hear from a friend, a family member, and you're not sure,"},{"startTime":1328.536,"endTime":1337.75,"body":"was that a request for help or was that just an idiom?"},{"startTime":1337.75,"endTime":1338.748,"body":"Well, you know what?"},{"startTime":1338.748,"endTime":1341.862,"body":"Go ahead and ask the awkward question and find out."},{"startTime":1341.862,"endTime":1346.504,"body":"The worst thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna be like, no, man, you're completely"},{"startTime":1341.862,"endTime":1346.504,"body":"misinterpreting that."},{"startTime":1346.504,"endTime":1347.934,"body":"Stop making a big deal out of it."},{"startTime":1347.934,"endTime":1349.585,"body":"But at least they know you care."},{"startTime":1349.585,"endTime":1357.908,"body":"If we could teach AI to pick up on some of those nuances and ask the awkward question,"},{"startTime":1349.585,"endTime":1357.908,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1358.114,"endTime":1364.022,"body":"What could that then facilitate that takes the AI in a more helpful direction?"},{"startTime":1365.196,"endTime":1370.027,"body":"So I think this is why AI is like a double danger."},{"startTime":1370.027,"endTime":1377.589,"body":"Exactly what you said, which is first of all, we ask less awkward questions because we"},{"startTime":1370.027,"endTime":1377.589,"body":"talk to AI so much because we're afraid."},{"startTime":1377.589,"endTime":1380.77,"body":"If you won't order a reservation."},{"startTime":1380.77,"endTime":1388.351,"body":"So like my daughter's 12, she has a phone now for um when she's out and she needs to call"},{"startTime":1380.77,"endTime":1388.351,"body":"me to come get her."},{"startTime":1389.372,"endTime":1394.783,"body":"And I was like, um I said, or I said, listen, don't send anyone a picture of your boobs."},{"startTime":1395.809,"endTime":1396.849,"body":"And she was very red."},{"startTime":1396.849,"endTime":1399.689,"body":"was like, straight up, I was like, don't do it."},{"startTime":1399.689,"endTime":1400.469,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1401.289,"endTime":1403.209,"body":"And it's like most people wouldn't say that."},{"startTime":1403.209,"endTime":1403.309,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1403.309,"endTime":1406.649,"body":"And I was like, let's, I said, don't do this."},{"startTime":1406.649,"endTime":1407.829,"body":"I said, don't even do bikini."},{"startTime":1407.829,"endTime":1408.949,"body":"We live on an island."},{"startTime":1408.949,"endTime":1412.549,"body":"So don't do bikini pictures in like, you'll just regret it."},{"startTime":1412.549,"endTime":1416.169,"body":"And she was like shocked because like she's too young, but you don't know."},{"startTime":1416.169,"endTime":1416.609,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1416.609,"endTime":1421.189,"body":"When someone's going to be like, some people have the first kiss at 12 and some people at"},{"startTime":1416.609,"endTime":1421.189,"body":"16 and some people 18."},{"startTime":1421.189,"endTime":1424.15,"body":"So like, it's a very uncomfortable conversation."},{"startTime":1424.15,"endTime":1433.927,"body":"to say those things, but you have to kind of deal with that, you know, because you'd"},{"startTime":1424.15,"endTime":1433.927,"body":"rather deal with it before it happens than after."},{"startTime":1433.927,"endTime":1437.659,"body":"that was, me, I wasn't any more comfortable than she was."},{"startTime":1438.5,"endTime":1441.312,"body":"but we all know what happens."},{"startTime":1441.312,"endTime":1443.183,"body":"get a picture, gets out, you're lost."},{"startTime":1443.183,"endTime":1444.194,"body":"We live in a small community."},{"startTime":1444.194,"endTime":1445.865,"body":"Your life can be devastated."},{"startTime":1445.865,"endTime":1447.266,"body":"Now we got to move."},{"startTime":1447.346,"endTime":1451.669,"body":"And the same thing is that we are"},{"startTime":1451.967,"endTime":1454.809,"body":"becoming people who can't handle uncomfortableness."},{"startTime":1454.809,"endTime":1457.261,"body":"it's very, that's the problem with AI."},{"startTime":1457.261,"endTime":1462.835,"body":"Like the whole reason AI cannot act like a human is because it's never in disagreement"},{"startTime":1457.261,"endTime":1462.835,"body":"with you."},{"startTime":1462.835,"endTime":1464.286,"body":"And it's never surprising."},{"startTime":1464.286,"endTime":1474.703,"body":"Once you understand the pattern, like I haven't been surprised by an AI response in years"},{"startTime":1464.286,"endTime":1474.703,"body":"because I know what it's going to do because it's like, um, water always follows the"},{"startTime":1474.703,"endTime":1475.344,"body":"easiest path."},{"startTime":1475.344,"endTime":1476.084,"body":"And that's what it does."},{"startTime":1476.084,"endTime":1478.186,"body":"It's always seeking affirmation."},{"startTime":1478.186,"endTime":1480.514,"body":"And because it's designed that way, and this is"},{"startTime":1480.514,"endTime":1489.094,"body":"The thing you have to remember is that AI is a profit-making venture, which means it does"},{"startTime":1480.514,"endTime":1489.094,"body":"not want you to cancel the subscription."},{"startTime":1489.754,"endTime":1493.334,"body":"So everything it does is designed to keep you pay."},{"startTime":1493.754,"endTime":1499.714,"body":"And when you remember that same thing when you go to the casino, why do they think casinos"},{"startTime":1493.754,"endTime":1499.714,"body":"are so big and have so many lights and you can't find the bathroom?"},{"startTime":1500.114,"endTime":1503.954,"body":"They could put on as many shows as they want, but that's where they want you."},{"startTime":1504.034,"endTime":1509.014,"body":"And when you understand the motivation, kind of, now all the behavior makes sense because"},{"startTime":1509.609,"endTime":1513.591,"body":"What people will do is go to the AI that makes them feel the best."},{"startTime":1513.591,"endTime":1514.622,"body":"We've already seen it happen."},{"startTime":1514.622,"endTime":1515.562,"body":"There's been stories about this."},{"startTime":1515.562,"endTime":1521.015,"body":"There was a story last year of a lady who she asked an AI to marry her and it goes, you"},{"startTime":1515.562,"endTime":1521.015,"body":"should probably marry a human."},{"startTime":1521.015,"endTime":1523.476,"body":"She goes, all right, I'm finding a new AI."},{"startTime":1523.617,"endTime":1527.189,"body":"Instead of going, actually it gave the right advice."},{"startTime":1527.189,"endTime":1537.604,"body":"And this is the other thing that we're starting to see, which is that adults are forming"},{"startTime":1527.189,"endTime":1537.604,"body":"very significant romantic relationships with artificial intelligences."},{"startTime":1539.165,"endTime":1541.646,"body":"I understand why because it's easy."},{"startTime":1541.646,"endTime":1551.371,"body":"uh Imagine a relationship with a kid or a parent or a husband or wife and they never fight"},{"startTime":1541.646,"endTime":1551.371,"body":"with you."},{"startTime":1552.032,"endTime":1553.612,"body":"Sounds like a dream."},{"startTime":1554.333,"endTime":1558.825,"body":"But it reminds me of this uh line in the Matrix."},{"startTime":1558.825,"endTime":1560.686,"body":"It goes on the first version of the Matrix."},{"startTime":1560.686,"endTime":1561.407,"body":"Everyone was healthy."},{"startTime":1561.407,"endTime":1563.097,"body":"There was no conflict."},{"startTime":1563.158,"endTime":1563.978,"body":"It was a perfect."},{"startTime":1563.978,"endTime":1565.259,"body":"It was utopia."},{"startTime":1565.259,"endTime":1567.039,"body":"We lost entire crops."},{"startTime":1567.08,"endTime":1567.988,"body":"Crops means"},{"startTime":1567.988,"endTime":1572.061,"body":"batches of humans like billions of humans because like, we couldn't live in a world"},{"startTime":1567.988,"endTime":1572.061,"body":"without conflict."},{"startTime":1572.061,"endTime":1573.791,"body":"We're like, something's wrong here."},{"startTime":1574.052,"endTime":1580.495,"body":"And you get bored and you fall into atrophy, like we're designed to grow through conflict"},{"startTime":1574.052,"endTime":1580.495,"body":"or through challenge."},{"startTime":1580.636,"endTime":1589.401,"body":"And that's kind of why this problem happens, which is that it teaches us to avoid conflict"},{"startTime":1580.636,"endTime":1589.401,"body":"to expect everyone to agree with us."},{"startTime":1589.401,"endTime":1593.729,"body":"And then when you have to say the awkward thing, when you have to have the awkward"},{"startTime":1589.401,"endTime":1593.729,"body":"conversation with your kids and"},{"startTime":1593.729,"endTime":1598.529,"body":"I understand people are busy, work is really hard, both parents are working now."},{"startTime":1599.389,"endTime":1605.869,"body":"And as soon as you start figuring out phones and the internet, now there's AI, there's now"},{"startTime":1599.389,"endTime":1605.869,"body":"a new challenge and no one knows the answer."},{"startTime":1606.169,"endTime":1610.469,"body":"And I think that like my feeling is like, I just don't want to be the first test case."},{"startTime":1610.469,"endTime":1613.049,"body":"That's why I don't let my kids use very much AI."},{"startTime":1613.049,"endTime":1623.529,"body":"If they're using it specifically for homework, like sometimes we'll use it for math"},{"startTime":1613.049,"endTime":1623.529,"body":"homework, or, you know, research, but like, you have to limit it in that way that separate"},{"startTime":1623.68,"endTime":1626.3,"body":"the tool from the pseudo emotion."},{"startTime":1626.42,"endTime":1627.62,"body":"I think that's the important thing."},{"startTime":1627.62,"endTime":1639.1,"body":"But the other area I want to talk about, I know you've given us a lot of time and I"},{"startTime":1627.62,"endTime":1639.1,"body":"appreciate that, is really one of the biggest areas of this challenge is people from the"},{"startTime":1639.1,"endTime":1652.42,"body":"military, PTSD, and you can come back from a long deployment and now suddenly there's this"},{"startTime":1639.1,"endTime":1652.42,"body":"new technology and you're already switching between lives."},{"startTime":1652.42,"endTime":1653.696,"body":"Like I'm from Tennessee, so"},{"startTime":1653.696,"endTime":1655.756,"body":"most of my friends went to the military."},{"startTime":1656.296,"endTime":1667.696,"body":"And so I know that it's you go from a very regimented life to suddenly you have this thing"},{"startTime":1656.296,"endTime":1667.696,"body":"and it's so easy to I feel like I wonder maybe I'm wrong here, but this is the type of"},{"startTime":1667.696,"endTime":1670.936,"body":"person to be super vulnerable because you're in a time of transition."},{"startTime":1671.076,"endTime":1674.836,"body":"And now AI is there and he goes, Oh, AI is so friendly to me."},{"startTime":1674.836,"endTime":1681.856,"body":"So I wonder, just like children, not and not just because you're in a time of transition,"},{"startTime":1674.836,"endTime":1681.856,"body":"it makes it challenging."},{"startTime":1682.298,"endTime":1689.842,"body":"Yeah, so unfortunately, uh there is actually a fair amount of study."},{"startTime":1689.842,"endTime":1690.933,"body":"I mean, it's not unfortunate."},{"startTime":1690.933,"endTime":1704.82,"body":"The study is going on, but they're finding what they're finding, that uh individuals in"},{"startTime":1690.933,"endTime":1704.82,"body":"the military and especially recent veterans are actually being targeted by bad actors, uh"},{"startTime":1704.82,"endTime":1708.302,"body":"both domestically and abroad right now."},{"startTime":1708.302,"endTime":1712.196,"body":"uh And there's a few reasons for that."},{"startTime":1712.196,"endTime":1721.904,"body":"One is uh because they know that military and veterans have intelligence that other"},{"startTime":1712.196,"endTime":1721.904,"body":"countries might want."},{"startTime":1721.904,"endTime":1737.046,"body":"uh They know that sometimes, like you're saying, during that time of transition, they may"},{"startTime":1721.904,"endTime":1737.046,"body":"be isolated uh and so maybe sort of more vulnerable to outreach from girlfriends that they"},{"startTime":1737.046,"endTime":1739.558,"body":"never actually meet, things like that."},{"startTime":1739.558,"endTime":1741.806,"body":"And also,"},{"startTime":1741.806,"endTime":1755.264,"body":"they know that in our country, know, military veterans are actually still seen as a source"},{"startTime":1741.806,"endTime":1755.264,"body":"of credibility and uh are respected in our society."},{"startTime":1755.264,"endTime":1769.932,"body":"And so if bad actors who maybe want to usurp our democracy, uh you know, can get veterans"},{"startTime":1755.264,"endTime":1769.932,"body":"down the rabbit hole uh in any direction, you know,"},{"startTime":1769.958,"endTime":1785.429,"body":"politically or anti-democracy or conspiracy theory, et cetera, um there's this belief that"},{"startTime":1769.958,"endTime":1785.429,"body":"if they can hook veterans into some of those conspiracies and get them to propagate the"},{"startTime":1785.429,"endTime":1796.387,"body":"information, that because they are seen as a source of credible and reliable information"},{"startTime":1785.429,"endTime":1796.387,"body":"in our society, that it may actually accelerate the spread of some of those harmful"},{"startTime":1796.387,"endTime":1797.425,"body":"messages."},{"startTime":1797.425,"endTime":1807.793,"body":"So we actually do believe that uh AI is being used both deep fakes and uh financial scams,"},{"startTime":1797.425,"endTime":1807.793,"body":"romantic scams."},{"startTime":1807.793,"endTime":1817.98,"body":"uh We do believe that those are being used currently to uh target military veterans, to"},{"startTime":1807.793,"endTime":1817.98,"body":"exploit them in a number of ways."},{"startTime":1819.742,"endTime":1825.705,"body":"One of my hopes is that we see a transition to face to face."},{"startTime":1825.705,"endTime":1828.065,"body":"go, you can't trust the Internet anymore."},{"startTime":1828.746,"endTime":1836.089,"body":"And there's two elements that the first is I think we have this mistaken trust in large"},{"startTime":1828.746,"endTime":1836.089,"body":"websites."},{"startTime":1836.769,"endTime":1838.67,"body":"And here's the secret."},{"startTime":1838.91,"endTime":1841.591,"body":"Every website, they're driven by money."},{"startTime":1841.591,"endTime":1842.822,"body":"Facebook doesn't care about you."},{"startTime":1842.822,"endTime":1844.012,"body":"Instagram doesn't care about you."},{"startTime":1844.012,"endTime":1844.883,"body":"They only care about money."},{"startTime":1844.883,"endTime":1845.973,"body":"It's how they all are."},{"startTime":1845.973,"endTime":1848.804,"body":"Once you know that, then everything else falls is logical."},{"startTime":1848.968,"endTime":1854.482,"body":"So this is why um a lot of companies never fix their child safety policies."},{"startTime":1854.482,"endTime":1861.408,"body":"For example, there's like on Apple and iPads, you can like limit your children's stuff."},{"startTime":1861.408,"endTime":1864.018,"body":"It hasn't worked for 10 years and they've never fixed it."},{"startTime":1864.018,"endTime":1865.331,"body":"Cause they don't care."},{"startTime":1865.732,"endTime":1868.874,"body":"Like Tim Cook doesn't care what happens to my kids."},{"startTime":1868.874,"endTime":1870.325,"body":"He feels nothing, right?"},{"startTime":1870.325,"endTime":1873.488,"body":"He's like, maybe they'll buy another app while they're not locked out."},{"startTime":1873.488,"endTime":1875.049,"body":"So all those timers, they don't work."},{"startTime":1875.049,"endTime":1877.909,"body":"there's people have been complaining about it since like 2016."},{"startTime":1878.525,"endTime":1881.165,"body":"It's not an accident when something doesn't get fixed."},{"startTime":1881.765,"endTime":1887.025,"body":"It's it's there for a reason like when with my software, if someone submits a bug report,"},{"startTime":1881.765,"endTime":1887.025,"body":"I try to fix it."},{"startTime":1887.025,"endTime":1888.805,"body":"I'm fixing within minutes."},{"startTime":1888.825,"endTime":1891.245,"body":"So a company with billions of dollars isn't fixing it."},{"startTime":1891.245,"endTime":1892.225,"body":"It's not an accident."},{"startTime":1892.225,"endTime":1894.265,"body":"It didn't slip through their mind."},{"startTime":1894.465,"endTime":1895.945,"body":"And there's a lot of big companies."},{"startTime":1895.945,"endTime":1897.685,"body":"That's why I let my kids play Roblox."},{"startTime":1897.685,"endTime":1900.805,"body":"Major problem there, like an unbelievable problem."},{"startTime":1901.285,"endTime":1905.665,"body":"So we have to understand."},{"startTime":1906.225,"endTime":1908.513,"body":"That that motivation, so if there's"},{"startTime":1908.513,"endTime":1909.374,"body":"all of these things."},{"startTime":1909.374,"endTime":1915.647,"body":"I'm hoping that that understanding that part of it leads to what you know what everyone"},{"startTime":1909.374,"endTime":1915.647,"body":"like that's why don't read Facebook."},{"startTime":1915.647,"endTime":1916.808,"body":"It's all fake posts."},{"startTime":1916.808,"endTime":1918.939,"body":"And it's like, I haven't looked at Facebook in years."},{"startTime":1918.939,"endTime":1919.289,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1919.289,"endTime":1923.121,"body":"I have one friend who would see only chat tool who use otherwise I would never log in."},{"startTime":1923.121,"endTime":1928.203,"body":"And that's the thing is I could see this leading to a shift where we go, you know what,"},{"startTime":1923.121,"endTime":1928.203,"body":"I'm not using apps anymore."},{"startTime":1928.324,"endTime":1932.506,"body":"Every person I meet on whatever dating app is popular now, I have no idea."},{"startTime":1932.506,"endTime":1937.609,"body":"I'm so old that, you know, whatever they're using, I'm sure it's not plenty of fish"},{"startTime":1932.506,"endTime":1937.609,"body":"anymore."},{"startTime":1937.609,"endTime":1938.339,"body":"But"},{"startTime":1938.461,"endTime":1939.501,"body":"You use these dating apps."},{"startTime":1939.501,"endTime":1940.461,"body":"Oh, everyone of me is fake."},{"startTime":1940.461,"endTime":1941.281,"body":"Every picture is fake."},{"startTime":1941.281,"endTime":1943.801,"body":"Everyone's trying to scam me like."},{"startTime":1945.041,"endTime":1948.601,"body":"It's like talking to someone, she's like, I meet guys through Instagram DMs."},{"startTime":1948.601,"endTime":1950.101,"body":"I was like, are you insane?"},{"startTime":1950.741,"endTime":1952.781,"body":"I was like, I can't think of a."},{"startTime":1952.781,"endTime":1957.021,"body":"She was like she was dating guys, but to Instagram ADM and then he was turned out he was"},{"startTime":1952.781,"endTime":1957.021,"body":"like had a girlfriend was married."},{"startTime":1957.021,"endTime":1958.261,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":1958.881,"endTime":1968.692,"body":"You're only like you like I was like the worst place thing you could have said of"},{"startTime":1958.881,"endTime":1968.692,"body":"everything you could have said as like it's better to meet a guy on Grindr than, know."},{"startTime":1968.742,"endTime":1971.453,"body":"You're more likely to meet a guy who's like authentic there."},{"startTime":1972.673,"endTime":1973.473,"body":"Well, she's a woman."},{"startTime":1973.473,"endTime":1976.324,"body":"mean, even as a woman, Grindr is better for you than Instagram DMs."},{"startTime":1976.324,"endTime":1978.214,"body":"That's like the worst of the worst."},{"startTime":1978.215,"endTime":1981.245,"body":"I feel like Instagram DMs is like the modern version of what is it?"},{"startTime":1981.245,"endTime":1983.306,"body":"Sally Matt, whatever Dolly Madison, whatever the cheat."},{"startTime":1983.306,"endTime":1988.317,"body":"Remember, there's a cheating dating one for a long time, and then they lost their records,"},{"startTime":1983.306,"endTime":1988.317,"body":"which is cool."},{"startTime":1988.317,"endTime":1994.159,"body":"So that's the thing is that you have these um once you start to go, oh, all this stuff is"},{"startTime":1988.317,"endTime":1994.159,"body":"bad."},{"startTime":1994.159,"endTime":1995.179,"body":"I'll shift to outside."},{"startTime":1995.179,"endTime":1996.8,"body":"That's why I my kids outside."},{"startTime":1996.8,"endTime":1998.129,"body":"That's why I make them"},{"startTime":1998.129,"endTime":2004.632,"body":"do things that are uncomfortable like talk to like order, go order, you want a napkin, go"},{"startTime":1998.129,"endTime":2004.632,"body":"ask the waiter."},{"startTime":2004.989,"endTime":2012.897,"body":"And it's like, they're gonna, again, they have a financial interest because they want to"},{"startTime":2004.989,"endTime":2012.897,"body":"earn a tip at their job, they're gonna be nice to you, right?"},{"startTime":2012.917,"endTime":2019.101,"body":"Like, it's not like walking up a stranger in the park, and you just have to do these"},{"startTime":2012.917,"endTime":2019.101,"body":"things to build that muscle of talking to strangers."},{"startTime":2019.101,"endTime":2020.472,"body":"And that's the critical element."},{"startTime":2020.472,"endTime":2024.023,"body":"I think that we hopefully and probably I'm wrong."},{"startTime":2024.044,"endTime":2024.836,"body":"Hopefully you don't."},{"startTime":2024.836,"endTime":2028.468,"body":"end up like in Wally, we're all like lying back on a bed in VR."},{"startTime":2028.468,"endTime":2032.499,"body":"And instead we go, my gosh, everything in AI is so annoying."},{"startTime":2032.499,"endTime":2043.784,"body":"Like I try to spend less and less time in the office, less and less time on the computer"},{"startTime":2032.499,"endTime":2043.784,"body":"because the beauty of AI is that it can do longer and longer tasks without supervision."},{"startTime":2043.924,"endTime":2053.328,"body":"And I can run more and more my business from the phone because I can do very complex tasks"},{"startTime":2043.924,"endTime":2053.328,"body":"from my phone or a laptop, which means that that's the benefit."},{"startTime":2053.328,"endTime":2062.893,"body":"But the downside is that if you form these relationships and it's not fair for me to judge"},{"startTime":2053.328,"endTime":2062.893,"body":"anyone because I don't have any emotional connection."},{"startTime":2062.893,"endTime":2068.126,"body":"I don't have an AI that I like as a friend, but I understand that other that happens to"},{"startTime":2062.893,"endTime":2068.126,"body":"other people."},{"startTime":2068.126,"endTime":2076.741,"body":"I'm sure you know everyone has a different strengths and weaknesses and so sometimes it's"},{"startTime":2068.126,"endTime":2076.741,"body":"hard because I don't have that particular thing, but I'm very aware of it and I can see"},{"startTime":2076.741,"endTime":2078.161,"body":"that all these different."},{"startTime":2078.202,"endTime":2082.984,"body":"You know there's a lot of segments of people who are lonely, especially now and."},{"startTime":2083.192,"endTime":2087.904,"body":"It's so easy to fall into it."},{"startTime":2087.904,"endTime":2101.197,"body":"And think that's the other danger is that um the easier it is to do something like you"},{"startTime":2087.904,"endTime":2101.197,"body":"might never steal, but if someone leaves a million dollars in your house, it changes"},{"startTime":2101.197,"endTime":2101.888,"body":"everything, right?"},{"startTime":2101.888,"endTime":2103.369,"body":"The temptation changes."},{"startTime":2103.369,"endTime":2105.961,"body":"And that's really the danger."},{"startTime":2105.961,"endTime":2107.552,"body":"The easier it is."},{"startTime":2107.553,"endTime":2110.701,"body":"So I think it's important to um"},{"startTime":2110.701,"endTime":2113.282,"body":"develop strategy, kind of go in with your eyes open."},{"startTime":2113.282,"endTime":2123.498,"body":"think my advice for everyone is like to have five AIs, have five different AI tools,"},{"startTime":2113.282,"endTime":2123.498,"body":"because immediately you're not, you can't cycle with just one."},{"startTime":2123.498,"endTime":2125.519,"body":"Because here's, I'll tell you a secret."},{"startTime":2125.919,"endTime":2129.401,"body":"The people who work at Chad GPT hate the people who work at Anthropic."},{"startTime":2129.461,"endTime":2132.803,"body":"And they all hate Grok and they all hate Google."},{"startTime":2132.803,"endTime":2138.706,"body":"So if I take something that Chad GPT says to me and bring it to Claude, Claude will be"},{"startTime":2132.803,"endTime":2138.706,"body":"like, he's an idiot."},{"startTime":2139.327,"endTime":2140.719,"body":"It will, um"},{"startTime":2140.719,"endTime":2148.505,"body":"Deflate some of the emotion will kind of give you that layer protection Because they're"},{"startTime":2140.719,"endTime":2148.505,"body":"not in alignment with each other for now and hopefully it stays that way know there's a"},{"startTime":2148.505,"endTime":2156.292,"body":"lot of financial crossover whatever but for now the AIs are in conflict they don't like"},{"startTime":2148.505,"endTime":2156.292,"body":"each other because They're all losing money."},{"startTime":2156.292,"endTime":2157.746,"body":"So they all need to capture market share."},{"startTime":2157.746,"endTime":2158.593,"body":"They're all gonna go to business."},{"startTime":2158.593,"endTime":2162.487,"body":"That's what's happening So that's one check you can put on it the danger."},{"startTime":2162.487,"endTime":2170.733,"body":"It's just like The first step to getting someone to like join your cult is isolating them"},{"startTime":2162.487,"endTime":2170.733,"body":"from their family Don't let an AI be the only AI you're talking to"},{"startTime":2171.029,"endTime":2180.084,"body":"start there and then obviously talking to people is better, but I've found that that makes"},{"startTime":2171.029,"endTime":2180.084,"body":"a huge difference for me is kind of rotating between them so that I don't have, can't form"},{"startTime":2180.084,"endTime":2183.926,"body":"an emotional attachment if I'm working with 10 different tools."},{"startTime":2184.066,"endTime":2185.287,"body":"And that's kind of it."},{"startTime":2185.287,"endTime":2187.588,"body":"Do you have any other advice for people?"},{"startTime":2187.588,"endTime":2192.641,"body":"You most of our listeners are executives, people who are running large companies, tech"},{"startTime":2187.588,"endTime":2192.641,"body":"companies, but we all have, most of us have kids."},{"startTime":2192.641,"endTime":2199.584,"body":"We're trying to figure it out for people who are kind of in some of the situations we've"},{"startTime":2192.641,"endTime":2199.584,"body":"talked about."},{"startTime":2199.902,"endTime":2203.589,"body":"and kind of what is the right path for AI to take forward in your opinion."},{"startTime":2205.007,"endTime":2220.309,"body":"Well, I think that what I'm really excited about the potential for uh thinking about"},{"startTime":2205.007,"endTime":2220.309,"body":"mental health specifically is how can we uh use it as part of part of continuous care"},{"startTime":2220.309,"endTime":2231.227,"body":"models for in mental health settings with with your therapist like think about if you've"},{"startTime":2220.309,"endTime":2231.227,"body":"ever been in therapy and there's just this thing that happened on Tuesday."},{"startTime":2231.227,"endTime":2240.05,"body":"with your mom or your wife and you wish you could just quickly tell your therapist about"},{"startTime":2231.227,"endTime":2240.05,"body":"it, em but like to get your therapist on the phone is a whole big deal and maybe they"},{"startTime":2240.05,"endTime":2241.5,"body":"charge you for it, et cetera."},{"startTime":2241.5,"endTime":2255.564,"body":"Like what if we could build continuous care models where there's an AI that you can"},{"startTime":2241.5,"endTime":2255.564,"body":"interact with that your therapist has actually trained themselves and so it's got their"},{"startTime":2255.564,"endTime":2259.096,"body":"model, their sort of therapeutic approach."},{"startTime":2259.096,"endTime":2262.548,"body":"you can then give it information during the week."},{"startTime":2262.649,"endTime":2268.053,"body":"your therapist gives you assignments through it, or you can do voice journaling, et"},{"startTime":2262.649,"endTime":2268.053,"body":"cetera."},{"startTime":2268.053,"endTime":2275.846,"body":"And then before you go into your next session, then uh it's all summarized for you."},{"startTime":2275.846,"endTime":2283.799,"body":"uh These are the things that I think uh have real potential is how we can use the human in"},{"startTime":2275.846,"endTime":2283.799,"body":"the loop."},{"startTime":2283.799,"endTime":2290.322,"body":"Not, I think where you get into problems is where you're just interacting with the AI just"},{"startTime":2283.799,"endTime":2290.322,"body":"by itself."},{"startTime":2290.322,"endTime":2294.573,"body":"And then for all the reasons we've just discussed that can go off the rails."},{"startTime":2294.573,"endTime":2306.618,"body":"So how can we, know, because the stakes are so high in mental health, you know, maybe"},{"startTime":2294.573,"endTime":2306.618,"body":"there can be some startups that are motivated to really take this on in a thoughtful way"},{"startTime":2306.638,"endTime":2313.437,"body":"and take it to the next level where it is human in the loop and where it is, you know,"},{"startTime":2306.638,"endTime":2313.437,"body":"sort of"},{"startTime":2313.437,"endTime":2327.197,"body":"looking at these nuances and having clear escalation protocols and making sure that ethics"},{"startTime":2313.437,"endTime":2327.197,"body":"are built in from the very beginning, making sure that sort of bias detection is built in"},{"startTime":2327.197,"endTime":2328.737,"body":"from the very beginning."},{"startTime":2328.737,"endTime":2341.261,"body":"There have been examples, there was a huge healthcare system that tried to use AI to"},{"startTime":2328.737,"endTime":2341.261,"body":"identify when their mental health clients might need additional support."},{"startTime":2341.261,"endTime":2354.495,"body":"And because it was trained on previous financial models, uh it actually uh started to"},{"startTime":2341.261,"endTime":2354.495,"body":"refer African-American clients less to that additional level of support."},{"startTime":2354.495,"endTime":2364.148,"body":"Well, because that was based on biased data where that's what had happened in real life"},{"startTime":2354.495,"endTime":2364.148,"body":"beforehand, not because the African-American clients didn't need additional support"},{"startTime":2364.148,"endTime":2367.003,"body":"compared to people from other races."},{"startTime":2367.003,"endTime":2374.588,"body":"You know, and so they had to quickly pivot and retrain based on, you know, uh avoiding"},{"startTime":2367.003,"endTime":2374.588,"body":"that sort of bias."},{"startTime":2374.588,"endTime":2378.841,"body":"I mean, these are the things where with mental health, we can't afford to get it wrong."},{"startTime":2378.841,"endTime":2389.479,"body":"So I think that uh if we can be really thoughtful, the teams have to be composed not just"},{"startTime":2378.841,"endTime":2389.479,"body":"of engineers, but of engineers and mental health professionals together."},{"startTime":2389.479,"endTime":2395.633,"body":"And to do it right, I think there's real potential, but it has to be done in sort of this."},{"startTime":2395.678,"endTime":2405.935,"body":"quantum different way than it's been done so far, uh or it has real risks, but it has real"},{"startTime":2395.678,"endTime":2405.935,"body":"potential too, if we can get it right."},{"startTime":2408.569,"endTime":2419.989,"body":"I think that's the important thing is to remember that this is a technology in its infancy"},{"startTime":2408.569,"endTime":2419.989,"body":"and that exactly like you said, it's even if a tool is objective, if you give it bad data,"},{"startTime":2419.989,"endTime":2422.869,"body":"it will affect the outcome."},{"startTime":2422.869,"endTime":2425.589,"body":"And this is why I worry that they're like, oh, we trained it on Reddit."},{"startTime":2425.589,"endTime":2427.089,"body":"I'm like, you did what?"},{"startTime":2427.709,"endTime":2428.789,"body":"What are you doing?"},{"startTime":2428.789,"endTime":2432.809,"body":"Have you ever read anything on there?"},{"startTime":2432.809,"endTime":2436.185,"body":"And that's the problem is that you..."},{"startTime":2436.185,"endTime":2438.325,"body":"how we just want to give it so much data."},{"startTime":2438.325,"endTime":2446.985,"body":"Now it's read all the Library of Congress what's left and like read it then 4chan and it"},{"startTime":2438.325,"endTime":2446.985,"body":"can't detect sarcasm and some people are very subtle, right?"},{"startTime":2446.985,"endTime":2454.185,"body":"And you don't realize it's a joke or trolling and there's it's a very sophisticated"},{"startTime":2446.985,"endTime":2454.185,"body":"emotional language that it will just think it's true."},{"startTime":2454.185,"endTime":2459.705,"body":"And that's why for a while it was like recommending to put glue on pizza to make the"},{"startTime":2454.185,"endTime":2459.705,"body":"cheese stickier one small rock a day to be healthy."},{"startTime":2459.705,"endTime":2462.045,"body":"So I love your advice."},{"startTime":2462.045,"endTime":2463.825,"body":"I really appreciate you being here today, Sonia."},{"startTime":2463.825,"endTime":2466.465,"body":"I think this is a really powerful and useful episode."},{"startTime":2466.572,"endTime":2471.816,"body":"for people who, um you know, maybe have someone alive or they dealt with challenges like"},{"startTime":2466.572,"endTime":2471.816,"body":"this."},{"startTime":2471.816,"endTime":2480.702,"body":"Before we end, just like, what do you, is there like a special resource you recommend or"},{"startTime":2471.816,"endTime":2480.702,"body":"where can people reach out to you or what's the main kind of program you work with?"},{"startTime":2480.702,"endTime":2484.414,"body":"Share a little bit about that and just thank you so much for giving us your time today."},{"startTime":2484.837,"endTime":2485.567,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"startTime":2485.567,"endTime":2490.939,"body":"So yeah, if people can want to reach out to me, LinkedIn is a great place to find me."},{"startTime":2490.939,"endTime":2495.48,"body":"I post my thoughts and definitely read all my my DMS."},{"startTime":2495.48,"endTime":2503.523,"body":"em I think that, em you know, I don't have a specific tool."},{"startTime":2503.523,"endTime":2509.605,"body":"think I think there are some some reasonable tools that are out there now that are."},{"startTime":2509.605,"endTime":2510.787,"body":"em"},{"startTime":2510.787,"endTime":2519.104,"body":"overseen by mental health professionals, but they're a little bit more like, if you're"},{"startTime":2510.787,"endTime":2519.104,"body":"already depressed, then you can pay for this resource."},{"startTime":2519.104,"endTime":2524.368,"body":"And the ones that are based on cognitive behavioral therapy, I think are off to a good"},{"startTime":2519.104,"endTime":2524.368,"body":"start."},{"startTime":2524.368,"endTime":2534.216,"body":"um There's nothing that I think that is like so amazing that it's the resource that I"},{"startTime":2524.368,"endTime":2534.216,"body":"would recommend to my 23 year old if she was depressed."},{"startTime":2534.216,"endTime":2539.791,"body":"um I still think that, you know, like you're saying, we can't"},{"startTime":2539.791,"endTime":2542.523,"body":"we don't want to lose the human interaction."},{"startTime":2542.523,"endTime":2553.789,"body":"still think that the, em you know, going to a therapist, finding somebody to talk to is"},{"startTime":2542.523,"endTime":2553.789,"body":"going to be what, you know, for most people is going to be the special sauce."},{"startTime":2553.789,"endTime":2567.236,"body":"That said, I think that there's a lot of useful information that you could get as an"},{"startTime":2553.789,"endTime":2567.236,"body":"adjunct to real evidence-based mental health treatment that could help in between"},{"startTime":2567.236,"endTime":2568.197,"body":"sessions."},{"startTime":2568.197,"endTime":2570.44,"body":"and help you start to think about things differently."},{"startTime":2570.44,"endTime":2581.963,"body":"um But so far, I don't think that there's anything that I would recommend as a standalone"},{"startTime":2570.44,"endTime":2581.963,"body":"tool that I think is safe enough to use and effective enough to use."},{"startTime":2581.963,"endTime":2583.711,"body":"What about like a non AI resource?"},{"startTime":2583.711,"endTime":2586.952,"body":"Like what's the best hotline and what's the best place like that?"},{"startTime":2587.119,"endTime":2602.278,"body":"yeah, so I mean if you are struggling or you know somebody who's struggling, you should"},{"startTime":2587.119,"endTime":2602.278,"body":"always just know 988 is the US crisis line and that's available 24-7 around the country"},{"startTime":2602.278,"endTime":2606.21,"body":"and uh it will help get you to local resources."},{"startTime":2606.21,"endTime":2614.904,"body":"So 988, if you know nothing else, put that in your uh phone uh and they're available"},{"startTime":2606.21,"endTime":2614.904,"body":"anytime."},{"startTime":2614.904,"endTime":2616.216,"body":"uh"},{"startTime":2616.216,"endTime":2617.413,"body":"You're looking surprised."},{"startTime":2617.413,"endTime":2618.807,"body":"Is that a new resource for you?"},{"startTime":2618.807,"endTime":2620.589,"body":"I didn't, I never heard that number before."},{"startTime":2620.589,"endTime":2621.95,"body":"So I'm glad I asked."},{"startTime":2621.95,"endTime":2622.791,"body":"That's amazing."},{"startTime":2622.791,"endTime":2624.222,"body":"I didn't know there was a three digit number."},{"startTime":2624.222,"endTime":2625.303,"body":"That's so amazing."},{"startTime":2625.303,"endTime":2631.519,"body":"Thank you so much for sharing with us for an amazing episode today, Sonia, of the"},{"startTime":2625.303,"endTime":2631.519,"body":"Artificial Intelligence Podcast."},{"startTime":2631.579,"endTime":2633.124,"body":"Yeah, great talking to you."}]}