Artificial Intelligence Podcast: ChatGPT, Claude, Midjourney and all other AI Tools

There's Never Been a Better Time to Get into Tech with Luke Jarych

• Jonathan Green : Artificial Intelligence Expert and Author of ChatGPT Profits • Episode 363

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Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast with Jonathan Green! In this episode, we dive into the dynamic world of technology careers and the evolving job market with our special guest, Luke Jarych, a career coach and expert in transitioning to tech roles.

Luke provides valuable insights into the role of AI in the workforce, particularly in coding and software development. He emphasizes the importance of learning AI as a tool for repetitive tasks and reassures that developers will not be entirely replaced, highlighting the need for problem-solving and business acumen.

Notable Quotes:

  • "You need to start learning AI because prompting is a must-have right now because it's replacing the repetitive tasks." - [Luke Jarych]
  • "AI always knows the answer. It's like having the repetitive tasks done by a robot." - [Luke Jarych]
  • "I want employees that almost never need to talk to me." - [Jonathan Green]
  • "The key for the future job market is that you need to upskill yourself and make some projects." - [Luke Jarych]

Luke discusses the challenges of adapting to a task-based work environment and addresses the increasing issue of resume and interview fraud in the tech hiring process. He suggests that candidates should prepare by understanding the company culture and align their values with potential employers.

Connect with Luke Jarych:

Luke shares insights about his new program, "Getting into IT Accelerator," guiding candidates from reactive to proactive job search strategies and helping them make strategic moves in their careers.

If you're looking to navigate the tech job market and need expert advice on career transitions, this episode is a must-listen!

Connect with Jonathan Green

There's never been a better time to get into tech, and we're gonna talk about with today's amazing special guest, Luke Jarych. Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast, where we make AI simple, practical, and accessible for small business owners and leaders. Forget the complicated T talk or expensive consultants. This is where you'll learn how to implement AI strategies that are easy to understand and can make a big impact for your business. The Artificial Intelligence Podcast is brought to you by fraction, a IO, the trusted partner for AI Digital transformation. At fraction a IO, we help small and medium sized businesses boost revenue by eliminating time wasting non-revenue generating tasks that frustrate your team. With our custom AI bots, tools and automations, we make it easy to shift your team's focus to the task. That matter most. Driving growth and results, we guide you through a smooth, seamless transition to ai, ensuring you avoid policy mistakes and invest in the tools that truly deliver value. Don't get left behind. Let fraction aio help you. Stay ahead in today's AI driven world. Learn more. Get started. Fraction aio.com. Now Luke, I'm excited to have you here today because the world has really changed over the past six months or a year, and we've been talking about how AI is gonna replace everyone's jobs for so long. We keep hearing the news, and now there's a hot new trend called vibe coding, which is this idea that. All coders will be replaced by AI by the end of the year. And do you think that's true? Thank you, Jonathan. It's a great question to start, and I don't think so, that it'll replace all software engineers and all developers. It's like it'll. You need to start learn AI because the prompting is a must have right now because it's replacing the repetitive tasks. It's like having the, all the repetitive tasks done by a robot. So it's very nice and but. No, it'll not replace developers because developers the, not these coders like they're calling them. So they're just they, they're not only clicking and just writing the easy code, but they have to know the process, how to connect the dots, know the business. And this, IE right now will not repla. This is why I right now will not replace them. I find that, whenever we do anything with vibe coding at my company, we have a non coder start a project. The coders are like, it's almost more work to fix it than to start from scratch. That it's such an ugly way of coding or in elegant style of coding that it's almost like brute foresting it. Yes, it works, but there's no thought towards how can we get this to work in the least lines of code possible? How can we really be efficient? And one of the challenges I face of course, is you don't know. What's in there. So you don't know if you have a security hole or if there's some type of invisible glitch in the backend because you don't have the ability to check it. Anytime you create something, it's I one time saw a chef who was a vegetarian, but cooked meat. I was like how do you know it tastes any good? Since you won't taste it since you don't eat that, like you're just. You're missing like that critical ability to test the quality of your creations. Yeah, and that's what I find happens when you are an amateur dabbling in coding, and I do a lot of vibe coding. I use it to develop small prototypes and websites, but you always run into a problem that you can't fix because you don't really understand what the problem is. And you notice that AI always knows the answer. So it's always I know how to do this. And after some time you, you can fall in the trap that you are just repeating the prompts, asking once again, and it's not working because something is not there. And it figure out the thing. And this is also the case. Why I am thinking that. It'll not replace software developers right now, but in the future as I think there will be decreased, the number of needed people in in coding. In the, in developing. In developing. So what do you think will happen to all those junior intermediate coders that are no longer needed? Where are they gonna go? This is also a good question. I think that now today's job market. It's changing, so it's not disappearing. We have still a lot of open job out there, but it's changing. So it means that to get into it as a junior or even meet you will need to know more than before. It'll be not like you makes one course and okay, we are hiring you. Let's go. No, it'll be like you will need. Know more things, learn to more things and be wider in your in your expertise. So I think that they will not disappeared, but they they will need to be more smarter, more, have more knowledge to, to get. Yeah. So I run into two things with hiring. We've hired a lot of engineers and coders over the past year, and the first is. I wanna talk about is like when someone says to me they've just finished a coding bootcamp, or they've just finished their coding degree, I'm like, great, you're an absolute beginner. Like you just know the rules. You don't have any experience. And like even someone I was talking to this week, he was like, oh, I'm so excited to learn. I was like, don't say that. It's not what I want to hear. It's I don't wanna pay you to teach you. I want. To pay you to solve my problems or to build what I'm envisioning and that's really important. So I was like, oh man, this guy really messed up this interview. He shouldn't have said that. Like it's the worst thing you can say.'cause it's like saying pay me to, and that's one of the challenges is I need someone who, when I hire someone, I want them to have more of that problem solving mindset. To think okay, you want me to learn this new style of system. So I do a lot of like automations and AI agent building, which is. Not exactly what you learn in your coding bootcamp. Like your coding bootcamp gives you a foundation, which is great. What I want you to say is, I'm gonna watch a bunch of videos before and after work and implement them during work hours. That's what I wanna hear. Not that you're going to use my time to upskill yourself. When you're talking to the people you're training and helping people to figure out their position, how do you help them approach when their a task is put in front of 'em that they don't know how to do yet, but they think it's within reach? Yeah. Yeah, this is a good point, Jonathan. I think that this, the, this is the key. This is the key for the future job market that you need to upskill yourself, make some projects, and do not just kind this experience draining the employer from money. So I would just say that you need to be already prepared, this is a significant change also now in the mindset, in the job market. What I'm seeing that people are still begging for this job to get in, in, in it, and they are not show, they are not prepared. They do not have any value to, to just prove that, okay, I will earn money for you. This is the biggest value for the business. All kinds of businesses. Yeah. What I look for is. How much time do I have to spend managing you, watching you talking, you checking your work? The more of my time you cost, the less I wanna hire you, so I'll pay more for less oversight. I really want employees that almost never need to talk to me. Exactly. Like I had one of my workers reach out to me today that she was like, oh, I use this ChatGPT a lot for this project. Can we upgrade my account? First thing she's asked for in two weeks. I'm mean per that's fine. Of course I'll get you whatever tool you need. I. That's what I'm really looking for is somebody who, people are self-sufficient and that they, because there's two approaches, which is that when they hit a wall, they go, Hey, boss, what do I do? I don't know how to solve this. Or they go, I hit a wall. I tried to solve it. My solution worked, or My solution didn't work. I tried, another solution, didn't work. Now what should I do? That also doesn't bother me. That's fine. So one of my other employees, she's working on a really complicated chat bot that is supposed to ask 40 questions from her survey in a row, and it's hard to get it to stay on track because they're not really designed to function that way. That's more of an AI survey. So I was like, let's, she tried three ways and she was like, just keeps drifting out. I had the same problem. Let's try a new approach. That's another conversation. That's fine. Sometimes my employees will try something that's not working for too long. Oh, I spent three days on this. I'm like, okay, that's too long to not mention. It's not working. If you hit a wall for a day, definitely let me know what's happening so we can assess that. But between the two, it's like hard to find that balance of don't bother me unless you really need me, and when do you really need me? But there's this, problem solving mindset. So that's one thing I really for. The other thing I wanna bring up is that it's really hard to hire people right now because there's a massive amount of resume fraud, application fraud, interview fraud. I had someone on an interview recently, he had his glasses on and didn't think about it, that I could see. The reflection, I could see was using chat JT to look up the answers to the questions. At least get contacts if you're gonna cheat like that. So there's this huge problem, and actually I talk to a lot of other people that hire in my space as well. There's a big shift towards referral hiring. We would rather hire a less qualified referral than a more qualified maybe, because now what people do is they'll look at the job and they'll say, JTBT, here's my resume. Convert it into resume. That's perfect for this job. And then the hire or the headhunting agency, whatever, then uses chat sheet PT to analyze the resumes, that chat sheet we wrote in the first place. So now when you post a job instead of a hundred applicants, you get 600. So of course you have to sift them more extremely. And we get tons of people who like do not know how to use the specific we list, here's our tech stack junior. How do you have to know how to use these different things. This is what the job is to do. And it's oh yeah, I definitely wanna learn how to use all those tools. Or they don't have the skill at all, and they're trying to do it. And so we're constantly trying to find ways to conduct interviews that get the truth because, yeah, great, you can work for somewhere for two weeks. Maybe you get to that first paycheck before they realize you're completely incompetent. But it's like, what? How? That's not a very good strategy. We're seeing a lot of that, like how much of that do you encounter? I know you help people with, from the other side of their career transition. That's what interests me is like, why do people think, why is this a strategy people are implementing and what's a better way? It's a great observation from job market and I have very similar ones regarding the AI and this massive applicants. And this is not even 600. I heard that it's 2000 even and they are just applying. Yeah. So this is a big number. And we have two ais from the recruiter sites and from the candidate sides and all this. It's not going to quality unfortunately. Like you are saying, it's like going to on only it's not it's quantity. So it's not quality, it's quantity. And this is the issue, what we have, how to make this how to make this better. This is a very good question. When I was interviewing people to get into my small startup company, I was trying to get from them, like you said, the ski. What they know and if they have attitude to, to learn and what they're doing. So it was like problem solving skills. So this 1, 1, 1, the most important. So what you said is taking responsibility. You are not asking all the time, you are not, you are trying to figure out some way, okay, this is possible, but the second one is not possible because we have the restriction like that. So thinking. Thinking in wider terms. So it was one and attitude to learn. So what you are doing to improve your skills, what you are using Stack overflow still, or you are asking charge GPT, but why you are trusting charge GPT, why you are thinking this answer is good one. So this is another question which I was asking, but still, it was some candidates which who we hired, some of them, they they are still working with us and some of them not. So it was like I think 30% of success, maybe something like that. So it was not that big number. Yeah. One of the things that we do at our interviews is we'll ask. How did you solve this type of problem? We'll ask about past experiences and we'll say, don't, we don't care about the solution. We care about the story. Ah, so that's the part that like ChatGPT P might give you the technical answer no. How did you feel? How did you approach it? What did you try first? Where did you get stuck? How did you, we want emotional words and like storytelling words.'cause that's where. Engineers are not good at faking that. If they didn't feel the emotions not gonna come up with it. And that's something that like you don't have prepped in your little chat GPT worksheet because that also tells us what things you try. It's like when I was in school and you do a math problem, like you have to show your work or you don't get points.'cause it's, the process matters. And something I was actually doing with someone the other day because they were like. We want you to scope out all the bugs and then tell us how long it'll take to fix 'em. I was like, yeah, scoping the bug is 80% of it. Once we know the problem, like finding the problem, the root cause, that's the hard part, like fixing it. Once you know a problem, it's easy to fix it, even if it's something really hard, right? If I have to change a part in my engine and I don't know how to fix an engine, yeah, that's really hard. But figuring it out what part of the engine needs to be fixed when I don't know how to fix engine even harder. So that's like sometimes people don't understand. The importance of that part of the process. So that's one of the things we do. Another technique is to make someone like solve or do a piece of coding, but film themselves doing it. So more and more we have to use these like extra tricks to see someone do something in actual, or they have to do it in person in front of you. And it's, and just this shift in the market that's causing again, like trust is really decreasing. It's really hard for candidates. So a candidate will apply to a hundred jobs, get no response. So now they apply to 200. What does that mean? Every job is now receiving more and they're less, like each job is less likely to respond. So it's really this challenge, like what are some of the. Techniques or ways people can better prepare for the interview and then hires What are some of the other takes besides the two that I use? What are some other things I can do to better screen out poor candidates and also attract better candidates? Yeah. So from employer point of view, it's I would more say from candidate po point of view because of employer. I know that it's hard to even find a nice HR ad agency, which the things what you said about this, life coding or having the the story to to say it's very hard even to explain to HR that they should find somebody with this competencies. So they are just looking for a piece of paper, which is resume. And this is it's, this is bad thing, but one thing, what you notice also, it's very important. And I think now it's a switching. It's a very big switch to going to and finding the job using referrals. So it's like more having the good recommendation and because you know somebody and you can get into tech, into your company, into into into your target role. Then just sending resume, because it's not saying a lot, you can lie in. There like you want, and you have the issues because it is just written by charge, GPT or whatever. It's keywords are matching. So it's great you have the great candidate, but how to make this difference. So I would just think in the different terms of getting getting into your, dream employers. So first of all, I would just make a research, proper research what you are doing, if you are my dream company or not, if you are on my list, because I don't want to work if when employer is not aligned with my talents, with my values, with my character generally, we need to have the match so you have the some environment, which I can check before I can just try to observe you and find out what you are writing, what you are what you are recording, and we'll know you better. So I would just, if I would just want to get to your company, I would just observe you very carefully and try to draw conclusions and propose something for you. Maybe give some. Value for before I will just apply. Yeah. Do you think? No, I do pay attention. There are sometimes candidates who go the extra mile who actually visit your website, look at the type of things you do and ask specific questions, which always does make them stand out that they've actually gone the extra mile. That's a huge thing. It doesn't, Matt, if that they do that, but they don't have the skills. It's not enough to make up for that, but it's a good way to stand out. It is. Really challenging to solve this new problem that AI has made worse. AI has made the job market worse from both ends. One of the other things that I deal with is there's two mindsets from hires or employers. One mindset is I pay for 40 hours a week. I wanna make sure I get it. And it's time-based mentality, which means they are shifting towards, like turning on if for, especially for remote employees, like all my employees are remote. They're like, we're gonna turn on your webcam, we're gonna turn on screen tracking. We're gonna turn on something that tracks how much your mouse moves and all of these things. And I know managers who will spend six out of eight hours a day just watching the webcams of their employees. And I. I'm not doing that. That's not the direction I'm going in. I'm a big believer in task base. So what I'll do with my employees, I, when I hire someone new, I'll say, you have two choices. I can put a tracker on your computer that will take a screenshot every few minutes and we'll track how much you move the mouse. Make sure you're not playing a video game pretending you're working to make sure you get in your hours per week, or at the beginning of every week, we discuss the tasks I need done, and at the end of the week, if those tasks are done, you get paid. So you estimate what you can get done that week and the time you're supposed to work. So now it's task-based. This means I only pay for, I don't care. I don't want to pay you 40 hours. You work really hard, but I don't get an output, right? I would rather pay you the same amount of money and the three things I want done. So I'm now paying for product instead of your time. I ask people like, which one do you want? And when someone says, oh, I really want, let's do the hour tracking, I'm like, oh gosh, that's more work for me. Now I gotta check the screenshots. I don't wanna work with you. That's actually, like most companies want that. I don't. I really want the first, the other type I can't who's yeah, I can self-direct, I can properly assess how long task is to take. And then they ask questions are always like what hours do you want me to work? I'm like, I don't care if you work 40 hours Monday and Tuesday and don't work the rest of the week. You get everything done. I have an employee who manages my Pinterest account every, I check in with her every three months. Once a month, I'll log into Pinterest, look at my stats. They've doubled from the previous month. I don't know what she's doing. I don't know if she works 10 hours a day or 15 minutes a month, and I don't care because she's hitting her core metrics. If a salesperson right generates X amount of revenue, I don't care what they're doing, they're hitting their goal. So once someone knows their metric and their critical thing, that's value, then it makes it easier for them because they know a goal to hit and they know the thing they need to be tracking. And that's really important. So as a hire or as a manager, I make it clear this is the things that I'm looking for. This is how I know you'll do a good job. Like sometimes you get people who. Tracking the wrong metric. Like they're like, oh, I've been tracking visitors to the website. I go, cool. I care about money. That's the metric. The most important metric is money. Second most important metric is like inquiries or email addresses, like another metric close to that's on the path to a sale. But people get caught up in like how many times they did something, not if it was effective. Like I would rather you post one social media thing a week that gets a ton of use than 50 to get nothing. And unfortunately we see a lot of people who they're tracking like features rather than benefits. They're tracking tasks rather than results. So from your perspective, as someone who's worked, a lot of people, how do you help people to become better candidates and to start to have the, especially 'cause they wanna work remotely, the personality or the like skillset that makes you like a desirable remote employee. Okay. This is a very great question and your approach is very major and also I have the same approach in my startup in my it company. So I'm not a manager, but I'm working there and we have the same task oriented measures. So we are just. We are in the different time zones. We have people from America, we have the people from Europe. We have the people from different continents. And it's no matter, it's matter how you are delivering task, but this required to mind to change your mind mindset. And this is the case. Where a lot of people will be rejected because they want to, like you said, 40 hours per week and just the salary coming and that's all they do not care if they task will go to the specific person if this will solve the specific problem. So this responsibility, what we are talking, it's very important. And I think that unfortunately there is. There is only a few percent of. People out there of employees who, who is working in like that because most of them, they have the mindset like in the previous center with this office sitting approach. And now unfortunately in the job market, we are seeing a lot of forcing to phis. And it because you are well at that, it's. This is not matter what, where you are working. It's no matter if this is office or I think there's a lot of people that can't self-motivate. So if they're working from home, they're not gonna work as hard as from the office. I've seen a lot of discussions. Every single person who talks about the benefits of working from home only talks about the benefits to themselves, not the benefits to the company. And that for me is a huge red flag. Like, why do you wanna work from home? This and this. Yeah, none of this helped me. They're like, oh, the commute's really long. Yeah, why do I care about that? That's your time. You don't get paid for that time. Not, I'm not trying to be harsh, but I'm saying you have to come up with a benefit to me. Why? That's good. Me. Now I only hire remote employees, so it's fine for me, but when I work with companies that have offices, this is their mindset and they say, when. At least we know you're here, you're working and you're not pretending to work. We don't have to track your screen, all that stuff. I'm always looking for, the core thing I look for is someone who's self motivates, and I think this is really important, is that people start to think of their jobs as a business. So you have to cultivate all of these elements. The same thing you do as an entrepreneur, which is keep your resume good. You're responsible for growing, you're responsible for your professional development, you're responsible for asking for a raise or looking for other opportunities. When you are passive, that's when you get passed by. And there's a lot of people that think, if I just code really hard, everything will work out for me. And it's unfortunately, those are the people that always get disappointed when they realize that soft skills are just as important. The person who was liked. Often gets promoted over the person who's more technically qualified is just unfortunate. It's the name of the nature of the beast. So you have to be aware of these things. So you could be strategic. And I think that it's a really important lesson. You can always tell when someone's been fired because suddenly they get super active on LinkedIn, right? You are updating their profile and they're messaging people, and then they're adding the Open to Work logo on their profile. They're doing all these things and it's yeah. That's a wrong time to do it. All of that stuff needs to be done earlier. That's the entrepreneurial, the business owner mindset, which is I'm constantly thinking about what am I doing now that I can add to my LinkedIn profile in six months? What am I doing now that can increase the perception of me? And there's a lot of things that I've done strategically throughout my life that a lot of people skip over I joined Menza when I was around 30, just as it's something to add to my resume. Oh, this person's super smart, right? You take a mental test and it adds a perception. I don't go to a bunch of Mensa conferences and all of that stuff, but I look at it that way and you look at what can I do to make my resume stand out that is measurable, that's actually actionable, and what are things I can do? And unfortunately it's kinda like a lot of people wait until like after they're fired to ask for referrals from their coworkers or other things. But if you get all your coworkers to leave testimonials or reviews on your LinkedIn profile, even after you've left, you can point to those and say, here's something that shows the quality. My work when I was there. We wait too long because we don't treat it like a career. I think this is really important and I do think that what you help people do, I think there's a gonna be a lot more opportunities in the technology sector going forward. I don't think it's gonna shrink. It's increasing. We're constantly hiring more engineers, and even though I use AI to prototype, I still end up hiring like website developers, frontend developers, backend developers, full stack developers. All sorts of things. Sometimes it's just to troubleshoot and fix a specific integration or one thing's not working. And sometimes it's to take the prototype and bring it all the way to market. So for people who are passionate and thinking, you know what, I do wanna upscale, I do wanna learn more about these IT skills, I do wanna move into this direction. Where's the best place to find you online and see some of the really cool things that you're doing these days. Jonathan, you said one thing which I would like to highlight, and this is the passion. You don't have to have the passion in your work because it's also I would say the career coach move, but it's good to know that you. Are going to the branch, the industry, and you are doing doing something what you like. And this is the thing which people are for forgetting and they are not prepared because they do not have any determination to learn every day. And for the developers, this is very important thing. People. Thinking that, oh it is so great. I will just make one bootcamp. I will get, and I will earn five tons of dollars at the beginning, or 10,000 or whatever. So a lot of money. But let's say that it's not like that. And what I am observing through what I'm observing at candidate level is they think that they won't do something which is not aligning with them. So they, for example, they want to get into product manager role, but the character is like more for data analysis. And this is the observation and career planning what you are saying. So you need to know exactly what is gaining energy for you and what is draining energy from you. And this is the thing which people are missing. They're not prepared. They are not updating any profiles. They are not visible on today's job market. And this is very very common mistake because now they are just, if they are just not, they're, if they're just losing the job, they need to start from scratch. And this is very difficult thing right now because of this ai, which is spoiling market like you notice. Yes. It's spoiling. I also think that it's easier to do something, but it's harder to get a result what we want. So yeah. This is my thinking about this. These amazing, I think you're exactly right that. You want a role, you wanna move into a role that you actually wanna stick with. Unfortunately, people sometimes shift a role that they hate and you end up trying to shift back. Great thing to end on. I really appreciate you spending time with us here today. Luke, where's the best place for people to see what you're doing? What's your website and where can people connect with you online? Thank you Jonathan. It's great time with you. And I see that we have a lot of in, in common. Thank you once again. So you can find me on LinkedIn. Just try to find my name and surname. It will be, it'll be not, look, it'll be profile. It's like that I will just write on the chat and on my website, which is courage change to it.com. So now we just released our. Three modes getting into it. Accelerator programmer where we are just going from reactive actions like sending and applying online to proactive actions. So getting to hiring manager, how to make the strategical moves to get into your G job. So this is what we are talking with Jonathan also, like you need to plan your career consciously. Not doing this like it would be the big surprise for you. That's amazing. I think people are gonna love it. I'll make sure to put the links below the video and in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here today, Luke, for another amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. 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