vol 1. PILOT Sobriety Date 9/4/1986 (Lisa)

Lisa shares her Experience, Strength and Hope; beginning 33 years ago, when she called a helpline and began to see she drank like no one else she knew.

Quote
"I have a good life today."

Instagram
Facebook

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:03

We believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members. Everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Hi everybody, my name's Lisa, and I'm an alcoholic. My sobriety date's September 4th, 1986. I have a sponsor, she has a sponsor, and I work the steps in this program to the best of my ability on a daily basis. I grew up in uh New York and uh in a smaller town across the river from the city. And umknown to me at the time, both of my parents are alcoholics. Anyway, growing up in a small area in a small town, I always felt a little different then. And I was very heavy as a child, so I got picked on a lot. And then uh when I was nine, my mother divorced my father. She went down to Mexico and did the, you know, divorce and then come back with new dad thing. And uh needless to say, I was less than excited about that. And so it just made me different yet again. We lived on a street that was primarily Catholics. Um my next door neighbors were Protestants. We weren't really religious. My mother sent me to church with the neighbors, and I had my best friend down the street, she was Jewish. I have a younger brother, he's five years younger. So he was calling my stepfather daddy, and I was not. Um I grew up feeling different then, and and I as, you know, been sober a long time, and so when I hear other people's stories, that seems to be a common theme that we feel different, and less than in some cases, than other people. You know, I started drinking and using when I was 15 years old. Um, so my story does contain drugs, but mostly I I refer to myself as an and a girl. I drank and and I drew the line at needles. In any event, uh what happened at first was I didn't like the way I felt I got high the first time, and I didn't like the way it made me feel. And so I thought, oh, I don't know about this. I was with a friend, and I went home, and my mother and I were struggling. We were butting heads quite a bit at the time, and when I walked in the house, she started yelling at me about something, and I didn't care. And I thought, this is great. I'm doing this every day. And you know, I was in high school, I was a sophomore in high school, I was a bus kid, so I got there early. So pretty much every day, you know, my friends and I would go off down this street we used to call the lane that was near our high school, and we would go drink and smoke before class. My first period was banned, so that's kind of a good one not to be sober in. Anyway, you know, so I partied. I partied a lot all through high school. The situation with my mother primarily got really bad after a couple of years. She was extremely strict and jealous, and um we butted heads a lot. And my stepfather was Italian with a very quick temper, um, and he would hit me where it didn't show. And so when I was 17, I found out in the state of New York you can leave your home at 16 and not be considered a runaway. So I packed all my stuff in big black garbage bags, and my friend came and got me, and I moved out, and I never returned to live in that home again. I moved in to a girlfriend's apartment that was empty at the time. Her family was in transition. And then I moved in with an older man I used to party with, but I just lived there. I rented a room, so to speak. I cleaned his house so I could stay there. I did graduate high school, this was February of my senior year, and after that I moved in with a boyfriend. So, you know, and I had to go to the local police station and tell them I left of my own free will, which I did. Um, you know, so all that drinking, and it was just drinking and using, you know, I did a lot of it. And um, in this time I kind of reconnected with my dad. We had been separated because my mother didn't want me seeing him when I was living at home. And he brought me out to meet my grandmother on my dad's side, who I had never met. She lived in California. After meeting her, she offered to send me to college. And I was graduated from high school, waiting tables, you know, paying bills. That was kind of it, partying all the time. So I moved to California in 1980. I turned 20. Drinking age in New York is 18. Drinking age in California is 21. But we find our people. And so I found my people and continued to party. I I went to a local junior college for a couple of years. I was a music major. I play the flute. Um, and then after that, I went to one of the state schools, San Jose State, um, for a couple of years, but I couldn't, grandma could only afford to pay for one semester. So I was paying for school, working, and going to school. And my dad and my grandmother lived together. And after a couple of years, I just couldn't afford it. So I dropped out of state and I went to a business school and got a secretarial certificate and went to work, you know, and started earning more real money, as it were. I uh used to work in restaurants when I was in school, and you know, I'd party all night. And now I have an office job, and my first office job was a nine-to-fiver, right? And there I am partying all night with my restaurant friends, and then getting up after a few hours of sleep and going to work in my office job. So this just continued. It really wasn't all that exciting. I will say that I did things when I was drinking that I would not ordinarily do. One time it was New Year's Eve, we had some friends that had a home on the coast, and we went there to celebrate New Year's. So that night, needless to say, we're all drunk, and we go and we're walking on the beach, and there is the tide had come in, and they all wanted to walk over this bluff to the other side. So, you know, we climb up the the rocks and down the other side, and you know, no problem. And the next day, when I'm not drunk, you know, they go to do the same thing and I can't do it because I have a thing about heights. And I'm standing there going, I can't do this. And they looked at me like, you just did this last night, you know. And so that was just another example of doing things I wouldn't ordinarily do. So I live with grandma for a couple of years, and then I actually moved out on my own, and she helped me get into this business school, and I got this job, and I'm drinking all night long, pretty much. And I, you know, and all night long I'm like, let's see. Oh, you know, I can get by on four hours sleep. I I can get by on three hours sleep, you know, and I I was a bar drinker. I used to drink with a friend of mine from work because she said, Oh, you're drinking alone. We can't have that, you know. This just continued, really. You know, I drank, I drove and drank, excuse me, all the time. Um, I never got a ticket, but you know, this was back in the early 80s, and they just weren't pulling people over the way they are today. Today I would probably be in jail. There's no question in my mind the way I drank and drove. I mean, I'm doing the one eye closed thing and the windows down, the stereos blaring. I got pulled over one time and the guy's giving me the test, you know, on the side of the road. And I had a burger in the front seat. I was hungry, you know, so I'm focused on the burger. And then he wants me to stand there on one leg and I convince him that I don't have balance if I haven't had anything to drink, and I just can't do that. So he doesn't make me do it. Can you imagine? And then he says, Okay, you know, drive carefully and sends me on my way. A year before I got sober, grandma had helped me buy, I had an old cars, you know, my car broke down, and um grandma helped me buy a new car and she co-signed for it. And I haven't even made the first payment on the car, and I'm Mario Andretti on the way home, drunk one night and partying with my friends, and I total it. I bounce off a telephone pole at three in the morning. That was my 25th birthday. I had a friend who lived really close by, so I went over to his house. This is before cell phones, and he called the police and they came and they were very interested in the damage done to the telephone pole. My car looked like an accordion. And then they told me if there had been somebody else involved, I would have been in jail. But there wasn't, so they didn't put me in jail. Grandma was pissed off, and you know, I can't blame her, and I did make amends for that later, you know, after I got sober. Yeah, so I wasn't gonna drink and drive anymore. That lasted two weeks. You know, I wasn't gonna drink, I was just gonna smoke pot for a while. That lasted two days. So, you know, this just goes on, and it gets to the point where I am calling in sick every Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday from my office job, never Monday or Friday. I'm waking up extremely hungover every day. I'm telling myself I'm not gonna drink today, and then I'm at the liquor store, a different liquor store, every night. And I drink till I pass out. I start having blackouts. I thought it was just tequila. Turns out it's everything. I started having blackouts on my normal weekday drinking. I lived with a couple of roommates. They were actually a couple. I thought that they drank the way I did, and come to find out when I got sober, they didn't make nearly as many trips to the kitchen as I did. We would buy our booze at it was Price Club at Costco. It was called Price Club back then. And uh they stopped uh buying their booze with me, you know. We'd go in on bottles, and they stopped doing that and um because I was drinking more. They started putting lines on their bottles because I was drinking out of their bottles and filling them up, and I didn't even notice this, you know. And so, you know, it was getting kind of bad. It got to the point where there were other alcoholics in my job, and I knew it because one lady was in rehab, and another lady, or excuse me, another gentleman had said had said that he was sober. I was a secretary and my hands were shaking in the morning. I thought it was the caffeine. A hangover without caffeine is extremely rough, let me tell you. So I would not hand them their papers that I had typed for them because my hands were shaking so bad, I would just kind of throw them on their desks. I worked in a big bullpen, and there was another secretary, and we faced each other, our desks butted up together, and then there was the salespeople. There were like five of them in their desks in this big room. And it got to the point where I would walk in and work and put my head on the desk and tell people to leave me alone, and they did. You know, and and I was partying a lot with a particular friend of mine, and she said anyway, and I was going out with her a lot, and then um she said to me, Oh, you know, she calls me one night and she says, Oh, hey, you know, come do laundry with me. And this was supposedly my best friend. I'd come out from a blackout, throwing up in her toilet, not knowing whose toilet I'm puking in. Those were good times. Getting told what I did the night before by people. And thank God there wasn't cell phones and video and Facebook and YouTube and all that crap because that would have been bad. Anyway, so she we had been going out a lot, and my roommates had been out of town, and she called me one night and she said, Oh, you know, come on over. I got a deal for you. We'll, you know, get drunk and do laundry. And I said, You know, I really gotta hang at home tonight. And this was I was at work when she called. God, she got pissed, she completely lost it, and she's screaming at me on the phone because I wouldn't come over. And so I hung up on her. And anyway, we had this breakup, which was really sad because by this point I wasn't dating. You know, I'd go on three dates. The first date went okay. The second date, I'm crying about my mother and what happened there, or I'm lecturing them. And then the third date was whatever I didn't do on the second date. So by third date, they're like, bye-bye. You know. And, you know, so it had gotten bad, and I was calling in sick all the time, and you know, and I knew there was something wrong with the way that I drank. I knew my mother was an alcoholic. We went to family therapy before I left home, and the therapist told her, your drinking is the problem, not your daughter's drug use, which, you know, we all know that's not necessarily true, but I went with it. During this time, my uh employer sent home letters with substance abuse hotline numbers. So one night when I was really drunk, I called it. And I kept going through this prior to this call where I'd say it's not normal the way that I live. And then I would say, nah, you know, you're okay. You're okay. I mean, all my friends did that too, but like I said, not to the extent that I did. So I called the substance abuse hotline, and the man said to me, Normal people don't have blackouts, they don't rotate their liquor stores, they don't call in sick once a week, they don't do the stuff you're doing. And he suggested I go to treatment. And this was 1986, and I'm on my own supporting myself, and I can't, and I'm like, I can't afford to do that, I've got to support myself. He called me a week later to check up on me. It was a Friday night, I was bored to death. If you didn't drink with you, I didn't, you know, if you didn't drink, I didn't hang with you. So I didn't know what to do with myself, and I'd come home and read books and sit on the couch all night. Oh, anyway, so he called and he suggested I go to Alcoholics Anonymous. Um, and so I called the local central office in the Bay Area, and I went that night, I asked the gentleman everything that was going to happen at a meeting, and he told me. So I walked up to this, it was a big meeting. There were probably, I don't know, 50 or 60 people there. I walked in and I asked the man at the coffee urn where I was, because I didn't want to say, is this AA? And he smiled, he said, You're at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. And I said, Thank you. And I took some coffee and I went and sat in the back row. I did not introduce myself as a newcomer, and if you're new, I really recommend you do that so people can know you. But I didn't, you know, and I went and sat in the back row, and I now know that everybody knew I was new, because everybody knows each other but me, you know. And I wound up running into some people that I knew when I was drinking that I drank with, and they said things like, We've been waiting for you. And one woman told me that I was the only person she could drink all night with, that she would rotate who she was out with, and she could drink all night with me. This woman used to be my boss when I worked in a restaurant. So um I liked AA. You know, I immediately immediately. I was so fortunate. I remember my first meeting, I'm sitting there, and I remember the man who chaired, I don't remember a thing he said. I'm really impressed when people say they do. And there was this big tall guy, and he kept looking at me, and I thought, oh, here it comes. He's gonna pick up on me because I'm so hot right now. You know, I'm all bloated and whatnot from drinking. And he comes up to me after the meeting and introduces himself and introduces me to women. You know, and there was a lot of fellowship at that meeting after the fact, which was really good for me because I would hang out after the meeting talking to people till all hours, you know, and the meetings were later then. They were 8 to about 9:30. And then, you know, I'd go home and go back to work, you know, the next day on time every day. And uh my boss said to me one day, Wow, I lost 15 pounds the first month I was sober. And she said, Wow, you lost a lot of weight. What'd you do? I said, I stopped drinking. She said, You you drank that much? Wow, you must have drank a lot. This is the woman I've been calling in sick to every week for I can't tell you how long, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

But I liked AA. I was comfortable there. I went every single night because I drank every single day. I went twice a day on the weekends. My compulsion to drink was removed right away. And I did not believe in God, like a lot of people say, you know, I saw it on the board and I thought, oh, no, thank you. You know, he hadn't done me any favors. I mean, look at what happened and how I was raised and how I had to leave and things that had happened to me, and I wasn't excited about that. But when I looked back after I'd been sober a couple of months, I realized, first of all, I went from drinking every single day to not. That was not me. You know, and second of all, when I was drinking, you know, there were times where I had blackouts in places. I was on Broadway in San Francisco at, I don't know, two, three in the morning, screaming obscenities at people while my girlfriend is trying to shut me up because there's a cop driving down the street and get me home. You know, I didn't come to till about halfway down the freeway toward home. You know, I was with wet bad people doing terrible things, and bad things could have happened, and they didn't. And I had to say that maybe there was a God. Maybe I was being looked out for. So I was doing what people told me to do. I got on my knees and I said prayers every morning asking to stay sober and every night thanking God for being sober. You know, it was thrilling to roll over in bed and not have my head follow me in pieces. I mean, the spins were god-awful, and I I threw up a lot, and that was no fun either. And I was elated the first time I called in sick, and I was actually sick.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I really mean it this time.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

I know, it's true. I'm sick, and I didn't feel guilty or anything. It was great. I uh I didn't get a sponsor right away. I went to a newcomer meeting and I would talk to there were younger people where I got sober, so that was nice, you know, and I would talk to them and and they kept saying, You need a sponsor, we're tired of listening, you know. But I didn't want anybody who was gonna tell me what to do because my experience with my mother wasn't so great, you know. So I found a woman who didn't tell me what to do, and we worked steps. Um, it was different back then. Uh people did this Hazleton four step, which is a bunch of questions, and you answer questions and it starts with your grandparents and goes through to you. And I wrote 60 pages, and it's was mostly about everybody else but me. It really wasn't like it is in the big book. So anyway, but I did it, you know, and and since then I've worked a lot of fourth steps, and they have been very different, and they are my inventory, you know. Um, so let's see. I was sober about nine months, and I met a guy, and we started to date, and he was kind of like all my bad relationships rolled into one, and God was like, Look, see, this doesn't work. No, this doesn't work, never mind. So I broke up with him, and then a few weeks later I met my now husband. Of how many years? Uh nearly 30. It'll be 31 in July. Um, yeah. And when I met him, I worked with his brother. My car had been stolen, and some kids took it for a joy ride. And um This was in sobriety. Yes. And so I get a call from the cops at five in the morning. Do you know where your car is? Oh, it's supposed to be in my driveway. No, it's on 280 in Stevens Creek. And so uh I get the car back, get it repaired, get it back, but they had taken the stereo and you know, all that stuff. So I buy a stereo and I'm telling my now brother-in-law that, you know, they wanted 90 bucks to put this stereo in. And he says, Oh, come on over. Oh, you worked with him? I did, I worked with him. He said, Come on over, we'll, you know, we'll um I'll invite my brother, we'll put in your stereo for you. I'm like, oh, okay. So I go over there. Now I kind of had a semi-crush on my brother-in-law, you know, he was nice looking and but he was married. So anyway, I go over there and there's this guy working on the 67 Chrysler Newport. And he pops his head up and his he had hair then. And his hair was kind of sticking up. Not much though, he was losing. Anyway, I go upstairs and and Daryl says, Oh, you know, they get in my car, they start ripping apart the dash, and then halfway through he says, Oh, This is my brother Andy. I'm like, okay. So they finished putting the stereo in, and I really like he was so nice, you know. He hates when I say that. He says that's right up with sayings, a woman is cute. But he was, he was so nice, and the men that I was dating, not not so, not so much, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Andy was so nice?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah. So that um that afternoon we go, you know, they finish and we go have lunch and everything, and then I said, you know, I'd offer to pay them. And Daryl says, you can take me out to lunch. And Andy says, You can take me out to dinner. Okay. So we go out to dinner, and before that, he had gotten tickets to a play that his uh co-worker was playing in the pit band. So we go to this play and we're early. So we go to a bar and we have coffee and we talk about our drinking days. Neither of us know we're in the program. So we go, we have a really nice time, we go have dinner, you know, it's all really nice. That's like on a Friday, I think. So he calls me Saturday morning or Sunday morning and he says, you know, oh, do you want to come over and go swimming? And he lives in an apartment complex, you know, with a pool. And I said, Yeah, there's something I gotta do this morning, you know, but then I'll come over. And I was going to my speaker meeting that I went to every Sunday. And so I go over to his house and I'm sitting there and I look in his bookshelf and there's a big book. And I said, Oh, are you a friend of Bill's also? And he said, Yeah. I said, Oh, wow, I just went to a meeting. So we both find out we're in the program. And we start dating. And I start seeing him, and I start not going to as many meetings. And I realized, you know, by this time I've got nine months sober. My old MO had always been, I had my boyfriend's friends, my boyfriend's interest. It was all about whoever I was with. There wasn't Lisa inside, you know. And so here I've got nine months of sobriety and I'm starting to feel good about myself and know who I am. And so one day I said to him, I really like hanging with you, but I gotta go to my meetings. And if you want to come, that's great. You know?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Good for you. Yeah. I know. You would think you're both in the program, you would have naturally come to the idea.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Well, see, he went to treatment in Washington State. They told people to go to AA, but he thought that meant for them up there.

unknown 24:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

So he was a friend, just didn't hang out. He just didn't hang out.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

So you were a good influence. Yeah, that's right. And he never shares this when he shares, but no, I've not heard this part.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah, I know. I'm the rebuttal. And I've been hearing him for almost 10 years. I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Well, you can tell him, you know now.

unknown 24:45

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

So we started going to meetings together and we dated for about five months, and he asked me to marry him. And I said yes. And then we got married literally a year after we met. You know, and I do want to say one thing because this is just regarding the job that I had, we had some social things that would happen, and there's always some of us there, right, that are drinking like we used to drink. And of course, I wasn't. So back in the day I would order Perrier, so I knew it came in a bottle and I knew it was mine and didn't have booze in it. Clever. There was one man that was always getting trashed, and so we were at this, we took a one of those beautiful charter buses down the coast to Monterey or something, and we went to this really beautiful restaurant, you know, as a work function. So we're sitting at this table, there's like ten of us at this big round table, and this man says to me, I notice you don't drink. And you find that where the people that notice other people don't drink, there are actually other people who don't drink who aren't alcoholics, right? Anyway, and he says that to me, and he's like, Well, I I I wonder why you don't drink. And I just looked at him and I says, You know, I used to drink, but it makes me stupid, so I don't do it anymore. And he never asked me anymore. Um anyway, I worked at this place for a while and I wound up having a wrist injury and I needed surgery. And um after Andy asked me to marry him, I moved in with him. I thought he was gonna ask me to live with him, and I'd been there and done that, I was gonna say no, but you know, he brought out the M card. So, okay. Anyway, and and so I had this injury and I I wound up having to leave that place because I couldn't type and I was waiting to have surgery, and you know, and it was really hard. I uh my stepfather had a beauty parlor, and I worked there from the time that I was twelve years old till I left home. So I had been working since I was twelve. And all of a sudden I can't work anymore. You know, and I'm 28.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And uh at this point you have a couple years of sobriety? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

And so it was really hard. You know, I felt like and and I joke now, you know, I mean I did eventually get to go back to work, but now I stay home, you know, because we made that decision when my son was young. And and I've said to people when they ask me what I do, I said, Oh, I sit around and watch soaps and eat bonbons all day long. And they don't ask anymore. Anyway, um, but I'm actually busier now than I've ever been. In any event. Well, we're gonna get to hear about that. Oh, yes. Okay. So what happened then is after um after we were married, we were married just over a year, and my husband's company asked us to move overseas for a year to Malaysia, where they had um, there's there's a huge expat community, and there's all kinds, there's a free trade zone, so there's all kinds of big companies there. And needless to say, salaries are much cheaper there for their employees. So um, and at first, my first reaction was, F no, I can't do that. Are you kidding? Because I was just finishing healing from surgery, and I was, you know, trying to figure out what I could do for a living, you know, now that my wrist was healing. And anyway, so we thought, okay, we're just gonna give it up to God, and if it's supposed to happen, it's gonna happen. And it did, you know, and they didn't give us a look-see trip. And at the time, Malaysia was a third world country. So we go there and they take us out to this resort, you know, and we stay there for a few weeks until our apartment is ready. And then we go into town to see our apartment, and the whole town smells like this particular dish they make. They have a lot of these roadside stands. And I thought, oh my God, there's open sewers, and it stinks here, and I can't live here, you know. And it wound up being one of the best experiences of our life. It really was a great experience once you just drop your standard of hygiene, and it was all good.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Um You lost me at hygiene. It really was They didn't have antibacterial hand wipes either.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

No, they did not. And the floors, we were on the 18th floor, and they had these drains, you know, in your bathroom in your kitchen for washing your floor, and the cockroaches fly. And you would hear Oh no. And you would hear these knocks on the window, and you look out, and it's a cockroach. And I'm like, oh my God. I would pile like all the toilet paper on top of the drain in the bathroom so nothing could come up. And but in any event, what wound up happening there, we brought tapes, we brought books, we brought all this stuff. And by use tapes, you mean speaker tapes? Speaker tapes, and we joined the Loners Internationalist. Uh so what that meant at that time was that you received letters from people in the program, and what you're doing now is that people get to listen to people in the program, and I think that's just awesome because we didn't have that. Um so if you're a loner, use the tapes, use the letters, use whatever, let people know where you are. We wrote central offices around where we were in, you know, in Thailand and Indonesia and the Philippines, and um, when people would come into town, they'd call us. And they'd say, you know, is there a meeting? Oh yeah, when is it? You're in luck, it's tonight. And they'd say, Where is it? Where are you? And we met so many people, some of whom we still are in touch with today. You know, and this was back in 1989 and 90 that we were there. And we did start a meeting. We had been there about a month with no meetings, and I was ready to kill people. You know, that's where I go, I get homicidal. So we went to, we were on Penang, which is an island on the upper west side of the country, and we drove down to Kuala Lumpur, which is about an eight-hour drive. It's kind of like from here to LA. And um we went there specifically for a meeting. The people there were quite impressed because they were like, gosh, we were wondering if we should come tonight, and you guys just drove all the way here for this meeting, you know. And we got inspired and we started a meeting where we were. We found a church and then we went to the newspaper and we wanted them to uh do like a public service announcement, and they wanted to take pictures and print our names, and we gave them a pamphlet on anonymity and tried to explain that that wasn't a good idea, particularly because Malaysia is a Muslim country, and there are a lot of uh Chinese that live there. There's a lot of uh Eastern Indian people that live there, as well as expats from England, Australia, US, you know, all over. Um so they finally did the article. They did not name us, and they they said in the article something about why is this so secret, you know. Um so mostly our our membership consisted of ourselves and one other man who actually lived in our apartment building. We started meeting in our apartment at first, and we found out he was with the Royal Australian Air Force, and we found out that he was uh NAA. We found a doctor, and she had said, Oh, you know, this man. And we contacted him, he was ten floors above us. So we met in our apartment, and then we found this church, and this man moved, but another man came that was taking his place, who was also alcoholic. So we start our meeting in the church, and it's my husband and I sitting there, and this other man isn't showing up. So I call him the next week and said, So are you coming to our meeting or what? It's Wednesday at seven. We're meeting at St. George's Church. And uh apparently they they have meetings much more frequently than once a week there now, and they're still going, which is really cool. Um, and we went to meetings wherever we went, you know, in Asia, and it was really, really cool. And since then we've been to meetings in whatever country we went to Italy last year, which was a dream of mine always, and so it was way cool to do it, and we went to some really good meetings and met some really cool people. So we were there for a year, and then we moved to Arizona, and we lived in Arizona for about 10 years outside of Phoenix. We had a group of friends there who were nobody had family, so we hung out with them for holidays and all that, and they were normies, neither none of them knew we were in the program. And um one time, and at this time I started working with my husband's company as well, and and my group had this quarterly thing, you know, we went this activity, we were on a boat, and by the end of the evening, most people weren't talking to their significant others, or their significant others had left. And we were walking to our car, and a lady I worked with came up behind us, and she says, Gosh, you guys are the only normal people here.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

If she only knew. Anyway, um, so yeah, we lived there for 10 years. I had my son there. Um, I didn't know how to be a parent. I didn't have a good example growing up. I would read the parenting books and get really angry because I was raised with all the don'ts as opposed to the do's. Uh, my son has ADHD. I didn't know that until he was almost six, and he was really difficult. And I had a horrible temper, even in sobriety, which is embarrassing to say, but that's the way it was, and I would lose my temper. Um, one time I went into my bedroom and closed the door, because you know, when your kids are little, they don't leave you alone. And I was so angry with him, and I went and I closed the door and I just screamed, and I realized my bedroom windows were open. God's let their laughing anyway, you know. So we did find out what was going on with him, and um, you know, and and it's well, he's almost 22 now, and uh it's our relationship is really good, and I and I'm so grateful because I thought that I was a f I had a fear that if I had a child they would not like me like I didn't like my mother and they would leave. Um, you know, and just the other day he and I were having a conversation and he said, you know, mom, he said, I was talking to my friend on the phone when you came in and I didn't mute it. And he and I are always joking back and forth, and and after you left the room, she was like, Boy, I wish I could talk to my mom like that. And he said, I can tell you anything. And there are some things he's told me I don't necessarily want to know. But that's okay, because he can, you know, and I couldn't tell my mother anything, you know. And um anyway, so we lived there for 10 years, Arizona, and we had this group of friends, and one day, just as we're getting ready to move up here, actually, um, one of my friends says we were talking, and she had another friend that I knew was in the program because she'd broken her anonymity to me, but she didn't know I was in the program, and we were talking, and then I mentioned that I was sober. My friend almost fell out of her chair. She's known me for 10 years. My mind says that if you don't drink, then you must be a recovered alcoholic because nobody doesn't drink, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Oh, agreed. Am I talking too long? No, no, I just I would yes, I agree. As soon as someone says they don't drink, I assume they're one of us. Exactly. But why would you not? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

So that's what I assumed that they assumed about me. And she had no idea. And she looked at me and said, Did this just happen? And I said, No, I've been sober for 13 years. Anyway, that was pretty funny. So um, so we move up here to this area in California, and um, and it was really hard. You know, we've moved a lot, and whenever we move, I do get connected with meetings. There's too many people you hear about going out. And when you've got some time, if you go out, the chances of you coming back are pretty slim, really. You know, I had a friend here who had 14 years and she went out went out on l on Listerine, locked herself in her room and was drinking bottles of Listerine because that's what she had. And it sounds gross, but that's the shit we do. I mean, I drank one night when I was living in a um living by myself in a studio and I was really drunk, but I didn't want to go out and get any more. I drank it was like wine that had turned. It was nasty, but I drank it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Well, f for truth's sake, I've drank Listerine to get the shakes to calm down. Right? And it's nasty. I've heard people stare at the vanilla extract in their kitchen and ponder drinking it.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

I heard of a woman drinking hairspray. Yeah. You know, it's what people will do the sanity of the disease. You know, and so she was doing this and she could not, it took her I don't know how long to finally get sober again. She couldn't get more than 45 days. And and the reason that it hit me so hard was when she first got sober, she said her compulsion was m removed right away. And now, you know, this next time that she went out, she could not overcome the compulsion, and she was doing everything, going to meetings, working steps, doing everything we talk about doing, and she could not stay sober, and that scared the crap out of me. You know, so I've always really stayed connected. And when we first moved here, I didn't know my son was ADHD. He was he was really difficult. Fighting with a young child, if you don't have one who's got that, it's like fighting with an adult. And um I finally found he would not potty train. I finally found a preschool that would take him and let him, it was like a preschool daycare so that I could get to meetings, you know, and and get connected. Um and so once he was diagnosed, we got him on medication, and it wasn't necessarily easy, but it was better. And, you know, and people, some people take your inventory about that. And if you have a child that needs medication, give it to them. You know? I mean, I read a book by a doctor, Dr. Daniel Eamon, who's very um very knowledged in in the area of ADD and brain disorders. And he says not giving your child medication is like telling your child who wears glasses they don't need them. You know, it made a big difference. He actually doesn't take that medication today.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

He still takes antidepressants, but you know We have a we have a house rule of no mom shaming. Yeah. So nobody should be mom shaming anyone. We all are out there to do our best. Exactly. So no mom shaming here. No mom shaming on this show. Yeah, thank you. No human shaming either while we're at it.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

We do it enough to ourselves as moms. I have to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

It's mom guilt, it's inherent in the job.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Oh my goodness, you know, so here I am. I'm I mean, I don't have my son till I'm nine years sober. And I'm still losing my temper like I don't have a program, right? Now, over the years at age appropriate, I have made amends to him and talked about my anger and have and I don't do that, you know, but it took a long time. Some things take a long time. Um I had a resentment against my mother for the past 29 years or so, literally. Um, I did a lot of four steps with her on there. I couldn't seem to let go of it. I've had some amazing spiritual experiences. I was um making amends to my grandmother on my mother's side because she and I were very close when I was growing up, and then I left and moved to California and she didn't know where I was, and she was really sick. She was in the hospital. My father took me to see her, and I was devastated, and I was standing in the um hallway crying, and my dad wouldn't hug me because he's not he wasn't that kind of emotional person, and my mother wouldn't because, well, I wasn't, you know, I was estranged from her, and so I couldn't go back. You know, I mean I was 19. And um and so I felt a lot of guilt. So I believe that the people that have passed can see us, that they're up there, wherever there is. And um, and I walk every morning, uh, as you know, Tara, I walk, you know, about three and a half miles every morning. So one morning I was walking and I was bawling away and I was making amends to the to this grandmother for not being there and not seeing her. And this deer was standing in these people's yard, just standing there, this female deer just looking at me. And she didn't flinch, you know, and it was like wow. And I was talking to a friend of mine in Arizona, and she said, Hang on, we've got this book. It's a Native American book, and it talks about why animals present themselves to people. And apparently deer present themselves to you when you're hurting. And so whenever I see a deer, it's grandma. Um and years later I went to a retreat, and um during the retreat we were working on the four-step prayer. Um, you know, God, you know, forgive this person or help me to whatever it is. This is a sick person, help me be helpful and treat them. And thank God it's written down. I can't remember anything anymore. Anyway. And I can jump in and read it. Right. You know, or we say, you know, this is a sick person, help me to treat them well and be helpful to them. What can I do? Thy will be done. Some along those lines. And I and I was sitting out in this beautiful area of this retreat, has a beautiful landscaping, and and I was saying that prayer, and I was sitting in front of this huge mosaic, this big tile thing, and it was like up on a um like a hill. It was in the hill, right? And I'm sitting down low, and this one deer comes over and sits down, lays down and stares at me, and then another deer comes over. And I told someone this story, and they're like, oh my God, that's like your grandmother and your mother, because my mother has passed. And when my mother passed, I was relieved because I always felt like I had to, you're not supposed to not have a relationship with your mother. And I had a therapist that told me after I was sharing the things that had happened growing up, she she believed my mother had narcissistic personality disorder, and she was also an alcoholic, so that's like double narcissism. Right. Um, and she told me the best thing I could do was stay away. But I have to tell you, it wasn't until last year where I finally let go of that resentment. You know, I've had a lot of I had a Spiritual experience with that one too, where I was crying about it, and um I as I was telling Tara earlier, I have headache issues, and I was praying to God and saying, Why do I have these? you know, what am I not letting go of that's causing me to have these headaches? And a voice said, You have to forgive her. And I literally looked behind me and there was nobody there. It was not my voice. So, you know, I had a slow but sure spiritual awakening, but I've had a lot of thunks on the head, and that was one of them, you know. But it still took me a long time to finally realize she was a sick person and forgive her for that. This friend of mine that kept going out that I referred to later earlier, with her I learned to separate the person from the disease. But I couldn't do that with my mother for the longest time. Over the last eight or nine months, I got a new sponsor who actually has a lot less time than I do. So if you have a lot of time, don't let that deter you from asking somebody who has what you want, even if they don't have a lot of time. Because this woman knows the book cold. She was a constant relapser and she is rock solid. So she took me through the book exactly as it's written, you know, so I'm like, you know, a thumper. Um but she took me through it exactly as it's written. And I was very dismayed to find out after all this time of sobriety, I'm still self-centered, dishonest, and self-seeking.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Keep coming back.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Yes. And I do 10 steps and 11 steps regularly, and I'll call her about a tenth step, and she'll say, You know, you're being selfish. And I said, But what they're doing is hurtful. She said, I know, but they're not doing it your way, and you're being selfish. Damn it. She's right. So um anyway, you know, so I was finally able to forgive this woman, and it's been, you know, it was huge. My husband almost fell out of his chair. I was chairing a meeting and said I was finally able to forgive her, and he couldn't believe it because he's heard a lot. You know, we spent some time back east with my cousins who were lifesavers when I was growing up. And uh, when he heard their stories about their father, my my cousin's father, who was my mother's brother, he was blown away because he he believed my stories, but when he heard that and saw where I grew up and everything, it really cemented it for him. And um, let's see. So today, there's when you've been sober and alive a long time, there's a lot to talk about. Well, first of all, when I had my car accident at 25, I thought I would be dead at 50. Right? I said, What am I gonna do with my 50th? I'll probably die. I'm not dead. I'm not in jail. You know, I'm a proud member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I went on my first 12-step call uh about a year ago, which sounds ridiculous, but you know, with treatment centers, you just don't get the opportunity as often. And I went to this call, and this woman had threatened to kill herself to her boyfriend, so I told her boyfriend to call the sheriffs because I didn't hear it directly. And I went over there and the sheriffs were there, and they asked me who I was, and I said, I'm a proud member of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, and I'm here to talk to this woman. And I went to talk to her. I called the hotline first because I'm like, I don't know what to do. I've never done this, you know, even though I've read the book a zillion times. But um, and I went and tried to talk to her and she was in a blackout. And I've never actually seen anybody in a blackout before. Unless you were in a blackout too. Right. And who knows what they look like. I was blacked out, I don't remember. And you can tell nobody's home. You can really tell. And you know, and I kind of wish I did video her so she could see what because they literally had to pick her up and put her in the police car and take her, you know. Where did they take her? They took her up to, I don't know if they take her to a jail or a detox up in Placerville. Oops, sorry, town name. Anyway, up that one. That's okay. Um and so and apparently You would hope they take her to the hospital. You would hope, but because she said she was gonna kill herself, maybe that's where the I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

They do 5150s at the hospital. I've been on one.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Okay, okay. But you know, but they didn't keep her. She was out later on. Because all they have to do is ask her if she thinks she's okay and she can leave.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

And she has been in and out and in and out. I think she's sober, I pray she's sober, you know, because when I was new, people talked about this disease killing people. And it does kill people, and I've been to a lot of funerals over the years. Um, and it's not pretty when it kills people. But, you know, a lot of people are coming in young, which is a good thing, but also there's still I'm indestructible phase in their brain, you know what I mean, which is a bad thing, uh you know, or they're just not finished. One lady said to me one time, I'm just gonna drink for the holidays. Uh and I didn't see her again for another six months, and she was tore up, and then she couldn't get sober again, you know. So this is serious business. Um, you know, so today, well, I have 32 plus years in this program. I still go to meetings at least two, three times a week. I sponsor a couple of women. I still, you know, I I send there's that section in the big book, the 11-step questions. Was I resentful, you know, full of worry or fear today, you know, do I owe an apology? I send my sponsor a text every night answering those questions and telling her what I did for the day so I'm accountable. Um, you know, and just to back up a little bit, I've had surgeries in sobriety, and you can take medications provided somebody else gives it to you as prescribed. You know, don't ever have anybody tell you you can't take a medication that you might need, you know, particularly for pain, but you only as prescribed, you know, and have someone else give it to you, be accountable. I've done that. I've called a sponsor and said I had to take, you know, the pain pill after a surgery.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

I had a C-section in sobriety, and it requires Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Because you can't heal if you're in pain. But on the other hand, you know, there are people who do go out on medication, so we have to be always very careful. You know, and you can tell your doctor, just give me, you know, five or whatever it is I'll need for the two days after surgery or whatever. But anyway, but I'm not a doctor, and neither is anybody else in this program unless they have a license. Um we are not the experts. That's right. I have a beef about that. Anyway, um, you know, but I have a good life today. I have a husband who loves me. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. Do we work the program? Do I work his program? No. Does he work mine? No. We stay out of each other's business. But, you know, we're both sober a long time. You know, we have our son, we have friends in the program, we have a good life today. And it's definitely because of this program. So I think I've talked long enough. I'll shut up. Thank you. My name's Lisa. I'm an alcoholic. That was beautiful, Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Thank you. You're welcome. So, what was your opinion of alcoholics and there's a little bit of a gap between you stopped drinking and then that Friday night when you called and you asked for the information. It was a week. It was a week. So, how did you manage to not drink during that week?

SPEAKER_01 51:46

I used my cat as my higher power. Poor thing grew up in an alcoholic home. Um, it was before I even knew about step one. And after I got over off the phone with that gentleman, um, I was it was my bottom, you know, and and and sometimes it's hard because I had a house, well, not a house, but I rented an apartment with friends. I had a job, I had a car, you know, and so I hadn't lost everything, but I was drinking every night till I blacked out or passed out, and I was sick every day. And I realized that I was just like, you know, the dreaded mother, I with the exception of I hadn't been married and I didn't have kids, thank goodness. You know, and that was the only difference. And that was, of course, the thing I never wanted to be was just like her, and there I was. And and it just broke me. And so I think I maybe had my last drink was like not very exciting. It was like I went over to grandma's house and she used to drink sherry of all things. But you know, hey, it's booze, right? So uh it's not Listerine. No, it's not Listerine, you know. So I think I had a glass of sherry with grandma that week, and that was kind of it, which is amazing in itself. Um, and then that Friday um that I went to that Friday night meeting, that Friday the substance abuse counselor called me at work, which kind of freaked me out, so I transferred him to a conference room, you know, and went in and talked to him, and and he suggested I go to a meeting that night. So that's yeah, just a week. Now when my husband shares his story, he had a week where he knew he was gonna go to treatment, so he was just going for it. Right. And I've always been jealous of that. And then one year it occurred to me, hello, I drank for three more months. So anyway, there's the gap.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

So did you think that did you have any opinions or thoughts about Alcoholics what Alcoholics Anonymous was before going in? Had you heard about the program?

SPEAKER_01 53:49

You know, I don't really remember hearing about it. And and it's interesting because these people were coming over and making 12-step calls to my mother, only I didn't know what it was. And there would be people that came over and talked to her for a long time. Then she would go away for a while. My guess is detox. Then she would come home and she would talk about going to meetings and oh a nun chaired and she said this or that, but it wasn't really registering, you know, because I was busy taking her pills and drinking and smoking and you know. Done that. And yeah. So um, but then she would get to a point where she couldn't take it anymore and she'd go out.

unknown 54:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

But I didn't I didn't register what was happening until I got sober, and then I realized what was happening. Oh, those people were twelve-stepping her. Oh, you know, she was going to detox, she was going to meetings, oh, she was, you know, relapsing constantly. I think actually when I left home, she actually got sober. She did send me an amend letter that said something along the lines of I didn't control you the right way. That's all I remember. I threw the damn thing out. I had had a trust fund that my godparents set up for me, which of course she blocked me from getting into any of my accounts when I was uh when I left home, and she sent me a check, so I took the check and tossed the letter.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Were you drinking at the time?

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Oh yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

We forgive you then. Yeah. Oh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

This was before I left New York. I turned 20 just as I moved to California.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

So you and I know this because I know you and and Andy, but you keep your anonymity you're pretty it's pretty strong and important for both of you. Yes. And when you went out of overseas, they were questioning you about anonymity and why is it so secret? Can I hear from your perspective about not just the program's perspective on anonymity, but why it's so important to you personally?

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Oh, yeah. You know, when I first got sober, I got sober in the town I drank in. So I was telling people, one one guy I worked with or worked for, he was kind of a jerk and he'd hand you all your work at the end of the day, and then you're like cranking to get it out, right? And so he was gonna make it up to me and take me to lunch. I was sober at this point. Oh, this place makes a great margarita. And I was raw, you know, I was newly sober, and I looked at him and I said, I can't do that. I'm an alcoholic. And he was like, Well, all right, you don't have to have a margarita. But anyway, you know, so I was pretty open about it because people had seen me, you know, drunk. And so um, yeah, I was. I was pretty open about it. And then when we moved overseas and we had some conversations with people over there, and it just seemed, and not only that, okay, so where we were as part of the Golden Triangle, and you literally see heroin addicts laying in the streets, Muslims don't drink, they cane people who drink. They, you know, they have like their Muslim police, if you will, um, that are watching what they're doing and that they're adhering, you know, to to the religion. And the kind of cool thing was you get to hear the prayers. They're all broadcast on loudspeakers, and it is really cool. Anyway, um, it became more important to guard our anonymity over there. You know, because people, you know, we were talking to someone, I guess it was just before we moved, and she was saying, you know, that sometimes when she's broken her anonymity, people view her differently. And so it just became more important to protect it unless it's necessary to break it to help someone. Right. You know, which I've done. But, you know, now that I know that there are actually people who don't drink that aren't alcoholics, there's not a need unless there is, in which case I'll break it. And, you know, and I I don't really care if people find out, but you know, I don't want to be viewed differently just because I'm in recovery. And I've been sober so long now, thank God, really. It's all God in this program that has done that, you know, that um I don't know, I don't even really think about it, but if I need to, I'll break it. But I'd rather not, you know, because I just don't act that way anymore. And I don't, you know, and I and I can have conversations with people and refer to program principles or beliefs without having to mention. I have a friend who's going through a really rough time and ha had a really bad time with someone we both know. And I just said, you know, some people are just sick people in this world, and you just gotta let it go. You know, and you know, I didn't tell her to pray for them for two weeks or anything, but you know what I mean. And we can talk that without having to break our anonymity unless it's required. And if somebody asks me, I'm gonna tell them. Not gonna lie about it, you know. But yeah, I guess does that answer your question? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Do you find yourself challenged with your relationship with the program and your husband? So I have higher expectations when I know there's people in the program. Just because I know the principles, you know, it's not just about getting sober. It's this lifestyle, it's this humility and kindness. And I find sometimes I have higher standards for people in the program than not in the program. Does that affect your standards on your spouse more so than if he wasn't in the program? Oh, yes. Well, that was the easy answer.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Roll them here. Sorry, Andy. It does. Sorry, honey. You know it though. I you know, he guys are different in how they work with their sponsors. And honestly, I have to say that this new sponsor I have, um, it's really changed me more than other times working the steps because she's really taken it out of the book. I mean, we're doing it like right, boom, boom, boom, just like it says. And so it's, I don't know, and I'm a sometimes slowly and I'm very stubborn. And my husband calls it my New York when I lose my temper. And that's endearing. Oh, yeah. You know, but I've learned to keep my mouth shut, which has always been extremely difficult for me. And um, you know, and I find that because I'm basically reporting to her every night, I'm really paying more attention to how I'm behaving, you know, and not that I hadn't improved in prior years, because I certainly have, but I'm I think more vigilant about it now than I had been. And, you know, and he's I mean, he's in services, you know, and he he attends his meetings and he does stuff and he has sponsees he's working with. But there are times where, you know, right now he does not have a sponsor. And I kind of wish he did, but it's none of my business. So I try to keep my mouth shut. Oh, he was talking to me about something the other day, and I just looked at him. I said, Well, that's something you might share with that sponsor you don't have. And I unfortunately, someone next to me, this was at the Saturday meeting, and fortunately, someone next to me started talking to me at the same time. Kind of cut that short. So I do. I expect him to act certain ways, and sometimes he doesn't, and I find it irritating, but you know, I really try hard. I think we both do to stay out of each other's program.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Yeah. Yeah. And we say in the program, you know, these expectations are planned resentments. So there's this knowledge of expectations on spouses, whether in the program or not, that I think all humans can relate to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Well, and it's family members too. I mean, like we can't make people get sober, right? You know, and just a quick offshoot. Like my dad, um, he didn't get sober till he was 62. And when I got sober, he said to me, You know, Lisa, some of us can drink and some of us can't. My dad was a musician with the day jobs too, right? So he would come home from his job and the next morning he would get up and he told me this. And he would look out to make sure his car was between the lines and his tux was hung up. Because of course he didn't remember doing that. But, you know, some can drink and some can't. Well, he wound up getting a DUI and he wound up getting sent to AA, and he actually got sober. Unfortunately, he passed away when he only had a couple of months, because you know, your body can only take so much drinking and smoking, and you know, and and he passed away. But but it it's just but I couldn't do that for him. You know what I mean? I said to him, if you ever want to go to a meeting, let me know. And he never did, and you just can't get family members sober. It's you gotta stay out of their business. You just do. It's you know, it's really best.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

It is.

unknown 1:02:59

It is.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Well, thank you so much for your share, your whole story. It's beautiful. And I'm grateful that you were able to open up and well, I'm just honored you asked me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

All right. Well, I don't have any other questions. Do you have any questions? Nope. Okay. All right, we'll turn this guy off. Okay. For more information, read the first 164 pages of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or visit keepcoming back.net.