Science of Reading: The Podcast

S5-E7: Unlocking change through literacy legislation: Dr. Kymyona Burk

May 18, 2022 Season 5 Episode 7
Science of Reading: The Podcast
S5-E7: Unlocking change through literacy legislation: Dr. Kymyona Burk
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Kymyona Burk is Policy Director for Early Literacy at the Foundation for Excellence in Education (ExcelinEd). In this role, she supports states pursuing a comprehensive approach to K–3 reading policy. She joins host Susan Lambert to give listeners a look behind the curtain of the legislative process creating education policy, including writing and passing literacy legislation, the politics of advocating for the Science of Reading within legislation, and what the results look like for states that have this legislation in place.

Show notes: 

ExcelinEd profile page

The Perfect Storm: Mississippi’s Momentum for Improving Reading Achievement - The Reading League Journal

Amplify’s Virtual Symposium 2022 - Celebrating Biliteracy: Realizing a Better Future for Our Spanish Speakers

Quotes:

“A literacy law is an equity law … there has to be some type of consistent language around what effective reading instruction looks like in classrooms.”

— Dr. Kymyona Burk

Susan Lambert:

Before we jump into today's episode. I want to invite you to register for a free virtual symposium on May 19, 2022, celebrating by literacy, realizing a better future for our Spanish speakers. During this event, you'll discover how to celebrate and honor the unique skills, strengths, and needs your multilingual learners bring to the classroom, as well as how to accelerate literacy development for your Spanish speakers. Register now at the link in the show notes. On today's episode, I talk with Dr. Kymyona Burk, policy director for early literacy at the Foundation for Excellence in Education. In this role, she supports states pursuing a comprehensive approach to K-3 literacy policy by assisting state leaders in building new or improving existing reading policies with a heavy focus on supporting successful policy implementation. She has a breadth of experience and knowledge about bringing the Science of Reading to the classroom, from policy to implementation. Remember to check out the show notes for related links from this episode. I'm so excited to have you with us today, Kymyona Burk. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Thank you so much for having me today. I have heard so many of these podcasts and I'm just honored to be a part of one today.

Susan Lambert:

Oh, that's great. And it's really exciting for me because we are finally going to talk about policy and how that rate relates to the Science of Reading, and it's a topic we haven't really talked much about yet and it's kind of near and dear to my heart. I know it is to yours as well. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I thought we would jump right in and just talk about first, your work. So you are the senior policy fellow at ExcelinEd. And tell our listeners what that means and what you do as a senior policy fellow.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

It''s amazing work. It, it is, I believe the foundation that is needed for a lot of states to really own their approach to improving literacy within their state. So as a senior policy fellow, I wear two hats. I work directly with our advocacy directors who work with policy makers , you know, legislators will call and say, we're thinking of sponsoring some literacy legislation, talk to us about what needs to be in there. You know, what are the components of really what needs to be in there in order to make this thing work? And , so I will come in as the policy expert for early literacy and really just kind of look at the language, provide feedback, ways to strengthen it. And also talk about some things that aren't possible in real life. You know, <laugh> , there are some things that may be in legislation where you're like, well, people really can't do that. Or teachers, you know, may not be able to do that. So just really giving , honest feedback about what it takes to have a comprehensive approach to improving literacy outcomes. And then the second hat is to work directly with state education agency literacy leaders, those who are responsible for leading these efforts who work directly with those who are the boots on the ground, who work with those principals and superintendents and teachers, and to support them in giving guidance as to ways to effectively implement what the legislation calls for. And , one of my co lleagues calls us a think tank and a do tank. So we, right. We help them think through how the legislation should be written. And then also we help those who are implementing to do that effectively.

Susan Lambert:

That's great. That's really important because it's one thing to have legislation in place. It's another thing to be able to implement it. And that doesn't matter what level it's at, it's state level, district level, or, you know, there's always that gap between the legislation and then what it looks like. So I bet you've learned a lot of things.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Oh gosh. Yes. I know we'll get into my prior work with the Department of Education, but really just now working with so many states, I work directly with 23 states and DC , with their implementation and what we call our early literacy network. And it's, it's an amazing space. It's our own professional learning community for those who are leading this work and their states. But to just really kind of see how it differs in implementation and just because it is different doesn't mean it's not , you know, a good thing. So just seeing the innovative ways in which states are approaching , tapping this literacy crisis has been, been very rewarding and eye opening for me.

Susan Lambert:

So you said you work with 23 states. Does that mean it's about 23 states that actually have some sort of early literacy legislation in place right now?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

There may be more than 23 states, but those are the states that I work directly with in our early literacy network. And not all of these states have this comprehensive policy and I'll kind of go into what that means. Some of them are just getting started. Some of them have adopted certain components of legislation around literacy. And then there are others that have the full comprehensive approach. But there are other states that have maybe some dyslexia legislation that, you know , we just haven't gotten an opportunity to reach out to yet. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I just celebrated my two-year anniversary with ExcelinEd. So , I've been able to bring on seven additional states in DC within these two years. So we're working towards getting everybody I'd love for all the states to be a part of that work .

Susan Lambert:

Well, first congratulations on your second year anniversary. That's amazing. Thank you . And doing all of this work around legislation in the midst of the pandemic too. So that's just like a little factor that <laugh> , that could complicate things. Huh?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

You know , ironically, this was, the pandemic was something that really sprang a lot of state leaders into action. I began with ExcelinEd in February of 2020, and was just so excited , because I would be traveling and testifying and all of these things, you know, and then the very next month the world shut down, right? Yeah . Because of the pandemic. But over the summer, the Zoom meetings that our legislators were having with our state education officials about, okay, we already know that, you know, our children are going to have some, you know, learning loss because of this disruption. What is it that we need to do? And I really think that it sprang a lot of these stakeholders and policymakers and shapers into action to begin thinking about how they would respond to that. Once the students were able to come back to school.

Susan Lambert:

Mm-hmm Well, I mean, you hate to have a pandemic happen to have something positive move forward. That's right . But that's, that's amazing. It's great that we're taking the moment to reevaluate. You know, because this is a Science of Reading podcast and because of the work that you do with, with policy, how do those two things intersect for you? So what does the Science of Reading mean to you and sort of , how do you keep that in mind as you're going about doing this policy work?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Well, I always say that a literacy law is an equity law. And I say that because, you know, there has to be some type of consistent language around what effective reading instruction looks like in classrooms. And when there's not legislation, I always say, it's really important as you stated earlier, to have this law and to have these words, because there has to be a place where this is spelled out for, for all to see, and for all to read that this is the direction that we're going in our state, all of us. So for me, the Science of Reading and all of this research around how best to teach all students to read. Those with reading difficulty, those with challenges such as, you know, students with dyslexia that we have a code , that the National Reading Panel has said, you know, that other researchers have really confirmed that, you know, we have this science right now about the ways in which we teach our students to begin to learn to read. And, I just believe that with this type of legislation, it really sets the stage and the foundation for the work to move forward. So I think that's what it means for me this , you know , we just have to create this common language, no matter the zip code, no matter the district, You know , no matter the state, as to what it takes to teach children how to read.

Susan Lambert:

Mm . And then, you know, we hear so much, I hate this term, but I'm gonna use it , the reading wars, I really hate it. We've gotta find something else, but this, you know, this ... How does that impact the policy work that you do? Do you find that there is a level of readiness that states need to be at before they're ready to engage in this work? Because you know, common language , language is so hard, right? Like words mean different things to different people. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And so how do you make sense of all of that?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Well , you know, I think that there has to be, I call it the big three. There has to be the willingness of the state, the governor, 'cause the governor has to sign it. You know, we've been through instances where it's passed the legislature, both , houses and then the governor vetos it. Right? So you have to have the governor, you have to have your legislature, your ed committee's ed chairs. And then of course you have to have your state education agency, your state chief, because this can't just be something that the legislature wants to do because they see other states doing it, so we're gonna do it too. Mm-hmm <affirmative> You have to have the cooperation of the state agency, because those are the ones again, who are gonna be leading those who are implementing this law. And then you have to have those who are championing it, you know, and the legislature and your governor that will sign it. So there has to be, if there's a level of readiness, it has to be the willing. It has to be those that are sitting in those seats and are willing. And that's all you need to be ready. <laugh> That's really all you need to be ready to make this change. And then of course, with this language, there are states that, you know, they've said very directly, we cannot put Science of Reading in this language because that will evoke all of these feelings, and there are people who are against it. But we can say, you know, we know that those components are what students need to, you know, have phonological awareness , phonics, fluency. And I'm like, okay. I mean, if that's what we can get, because that's still the Science of Reading. So I get it, you know, mm-hmm , <affirmative>. There are some things that you have to do politically, you know, in certain climates, as far as language is concerned. But as long as we're not saying that there has to be balanced literacy or whole language, or, you know, what's spelled out is that scope and sequence of teaching children, how to read based on the science, you know, then I'm okay with that, you know? Yeah . We have to take our wins. But we also have to, again, make sure, and in my role, just make sure that the language does not include any references to the whole language or to three queuing or to, you know, all of those things.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . That's really interesting because mm-hmm , <affirmative> , you know, I've talked with several guests on the podcast about how Science of Reading has taken on some ubiquitous, you know, and people don't even know what it means, but how important it is to really look then at the tenants of what this legislation looks like, as opposed to the words Science of Reading

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

That's right. That's right. That's a , that's a fight, you know, and there are generations of students who are coming through our classroom doors right now, you know, and a lot of it is making sure that the adults get on the same page so that the students can benefit from it. And they don't care what you call it. They just wanna be able to decode those words on the page and to know what they mean by the time they get to the end of the page, you know, so we have to set aside our differences and sometimes, you know, people draw these lines in the sand and say, I'm just, you know, I just balance literacy, that's it. But we have to be open to learning for ourselves. And this podcast and, you know, others, that's just a way to really get to those in the community.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. I love what you just did there. You pulled the kids right in the center and what you just said, or what I just heard or inferred is that, what kid comes to school and doesn't want to learn how to read. Like every kid is excited about doing that and it's our responsibility to be able to give them the tools that they need to accomplish that. Never heard a kid say, nah , I don't wanna learn how to read.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

That's right. They come through our doors at 7:30 in the morning or 7:45, and they're there the entire day. So it's up to us as to how we guide that day. They're gonna be responsive to what we teach. They're responsive to, you know, well , this is the time that you go to special or this is the time that you have reading. And they're with us all day. As the adults, we just have to make sure that we're defining those moments for our students , based on what the research and evidence says works. And then also just keeping our fingers on the pulse of kids all the time. It's easy for us to talk about the percentages of students who are performing well, but those percentages represent real kids. They represent numbers. If there's a student who moves within a certain level, I wanna know that that child moved, that child may grow , the child needs to know that he or she has made growth. So we have to just keep our fingers on the pulse of students. But , you know, as we'll get into with all of these different tenets, how do we empower those who have this responsibility to be able to do what they do every day effectively? You know, I'm a former teacher, so I'm an advocate for teachers. I'm a mom of a high school sophomore. So pray for me , a teenage girl, but, no she's pretty amazing. And, you know, who has gone through here in Mississippi, you know, the implementation of our Literacy-Based Promotion Act. She took the third grade test , for promotion, and so all of those things. So, you know, I speak as a teacher and a parent most times , because I know that parents and families need to be able to support their children at home. They just wanna know what do I need to do. But in order to do that, they have to know how they can best engage with the school and with the child's teacher. So it's gonna always come back to that for me.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. That's, that's amazing. You mentioned Mississippi. Let's get into the nitty gritty with Mississippi. They've had a little bit of Science of Reading success. Haven't they?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Just a little, you know , just a little , I think we kinda shook up some things in 2019 with our NAEP scores. So yeah, just a little.

Susan Lambert:

Just a little. Tell us a little bit about that story and how, like, how do you know a little something about that?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Well, I was fortunate enough to be hired to lead the state's implementation of our Literacy-Based Promotion Act. The law passed in 2013, in April of 2013. I was hired in January , no, in of July, 2013 , with about 23 staff, and on August 1st, it was like, okay, now go forth and be great. <laugh> So , no, we had the pleasure of working with Florida Center for Reading Research staff. Of course, as you know, Florida passed this literacy law , their literacy law in 2002. So they had already done this work and had seen successes from this work. Our former governor, of course, reached out to ExcelinEd, which is , you know, which is founded by former Governor Jeb , Bush of Florida after he left office in Florida. So to say, hey, I see what you all are doing in Florida and how can we do this in Mississippi? So our law passed, and I'll say that my first two years was PR. It was really getting to those who would be responsible for doing this work and explaining to them what this actually meant. This was a great thing for children. And for us, we have the retention component. So if a student does not meet a particular cut score on the third grade assessment or qualify for a good cause exemption, that they would be retained. You know, so there, there was really just a lot of concerns about how many students will be retained, about how this would affect poor black kids, mm-hmm <affirmative> , and other kids of color , about, you know, teachers being anxious to say that they just didn't feel like they were ready. You know? How are we doing this? And this is our first time hearing about it. We had a two-year runway from when our law was passed to when the third grade part would be implemented. But I believe what was so important for us is that we continue to add literacy coaches to the staff. I will always say that our professional development and literacy coaches really gave us this leverage and kind of the biggest bang for our buck, because with our law, it's important for states adopting laws like this to not only say, we need children reading by the end of third grade, but that we're gonna help you get there. We're gonna fund it. Right? And we're gonna provide that support and we're gonna empower teachers. So for us, the first thing was the common language. We provided professional development to teachers across the state. And we began with a very targeted approach with those schools that were, that had a lot of students, a high percentage of students below proficiency. So we had a rollout of the professional development. Everything was just really strategic. We had a rollout of professional development. We had a very intentional way of deploying our literacy coaches to those laws , performing schools, to be in schools, alongside teachers, helping them to really transfer what they learned in this professional development into practice. You know, as educators, we've all been to the PD and we get the binder and we go back to our classrooms . And if no, one's holding us accountable for changing our practice, based on those things, we just say, okay, I'll just continue to do what I've done. But coaches allow teachers to really kind of think outside the box and try what they've learned in that PD. So they've been very resourceful and helpful to teachers. We also included, you know, a universal screening system and diagnostic assessments. When I came on board that summer, they had done a survey and there were over 117 different screeners being used in our state. We've got about 140 school districts. And so there was no consistency. So I think kind of the theme throughout this is, how do we move toward this goal of a state-led, statewide approach , really at the state agency, and in my role as the literacy director, to provide guidance for our school district, schools and districts, of best practices. Hmm . So, you know, there are states that say we have local control. So how do we do that with local control? But it's about giving that guidance to those who are making those decisions locally. So that they'll be informed as to the right things to do the right things to purchase and the right questions to ask so that they can better support their schools.

Susan Lambert:

So backing up to when this law passed in 2013 . So what you had written into the legislation was a universal screener, is that right? Yes . Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then professional development. Yes . And coaches?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

And coaches.

Susan Lambert:

And what else?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

And parental notification.

Susan Lambert:

Oh, parental, t hat's right. Y ep.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Which is extremely important because again, you know, we've had instances that I'm sure, it happens, you know, where sometimes parents don't know that their children aren't doing well until the end of the school year. Until thei teacher calls them in to say, hey, you know, well, Kymyona hasn't been doing well, so we're gonna have to retain her. Then the parent is saying , wait a minute. You know, I thought my child was doing fine. So parental notification and parent resources, and really bringing parents in, but then also specifically saying, and putting into writing the Science of Reading , this 90-minute reading block, uninterrupted interventions , individual reading plans for students where those students who are identified by universal screeners are having reading difficulty. Their teachers are truly providing those interventions, documenting what they're doing, and then progress monitoring to see if those things are working. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So, you know, we can't just screen one time per year and say, well, I'll see you next year. You know, it's really the screening three times per year. And I'll say this, we had that in statute. We had universal screening in statute . You know, we have our RTI MTSS plan where they were supposed to screen. But we found out that people really weren't doing it, you know, to the degree that it should have been done consistently across the state. You know? So that's another example of, if you really don't have your fingers on the pulse of what's going on in schools, mm-hmm <affirmative> , and you're, you're sitting in your office at the state agency and saying, well, I've given guidance, and so these things should be happening. Then you really don't have a sense of what's actually going on. Coaches being in buildings, not as evaluators, but as those who are supporting teachers, and eventually what we found out is that those who are also supporting principals.

Susan Lambert:

Oh yeah.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Because remember, you know , we have administrators who have taught in middle school and high school. They've gotten their degree in administration, and then lo and behold, a position comes open at the elementary school. Right? So, you know, how can we also support our principals at the elementary school in understanding that these are the things that you should see in a literacy- rich classroom. These are the things that you should see that are evidence of the Science of Reading and this type of instruction. So with our coaches, they're saying, I'm holding you accountable, but I'm coaching you to get better at doing this. That was really one of the things that supported our schools and districts and making this shift, and not making it as painful as it is in some cases.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. So you said two years was spent really for you more in a PR sort of communication. That's a lot of change management.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Yes. And you know, we started in the first year, you know, I call 'em road shows. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . I would have staff that went with me to do parent meetings at night , across the state, we did eight scheduled parent meetings, and we even had some districts where they used the school bus to go pick up parents, so that they can come to the meetings, 'cause parents had questions, you know? Again, how will this , I mean, and just the transparency is key, you know? You don't want a parent finding out the year of the test that, oh, well this is a year. Your child will take a test. You want parents to know, these are the supports that should be in place for your child. And I would say to parents, if your child has an IEP or 504, begin asking the teacher about interventions, begin asking the teachers about, you know, things that they should be doing for your child in ways you can help at home. So a lot of it was PR and communications and guidance and jus,t our state chief is so amazing. Dr . Kerry Wright is so amazing. And just putting it at the forefront in state board meetings, making this, again, a priority on the agenda. So that all stakeholders could understand that this was coming and then to also understand how they could be a part of ensuring that this was successful for our children.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . And you did mention that you had a third grade retention policy, but with all of the...so the universal screening starts the minute the kid walks through the door in kindergarten mm-hmm <affirmative> and continues, right? Like there's a lot of like support systems in place before they get to that last resort, right?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Right. You know , I think we placed accountability in areas that had not had accountability before. State testing begins in third grade. So if you're a kindergarten first or second grade teacher, there's no state accountability. So the message had to be that this is not just a third grade teacher's responsibility, that students being able to learn to read doesn't begin in third grade, that it really involves and impacts every adult that touches this child, the time that they walk in the door at five years old. And so we also have a kindergarten readiness assessment that we use for growth from when they come into the door at kindergarten, and then of course, at the end of the year, to see how well our students are growing. Because in kindergarten, kindergarten teachers are rock stars. I mean, you know, they <laugh> , you know, they take children who come from home, who come from headstart, who come from grandmother's house, who come from the local childcare center, who come from, you know, pre-K programs that are well-established high quality. It all then descends upon <laugh> a kindergarten teacher and his or her assistant right on the first day of school. And so they have to start from where those students are and then bring them to a position to where they are ready to read. And in many cases, reading, you know, by the time they leave kindergarten, so it begins there. And then of course in that first and second grade, we can't be lost in the fact that we still have to screen students. We still have to begin, you know, to continue to provide those interventions for students. All of this is about prevention and intervention before we even get to retention. So if we know who these students are when they walk in the door in August, if we can identify, you know, that Susan needs intervention or Kymyona needs intervention, why would we wait until April or may to then say, well, we didn't really get it . We have many months to be able to support children along the way and provide those resources. And that's just what's so , I think, amazing about laying out this type of plan for teachers to follow.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. And yes, I'm gonna agree with you on kindergarten teachers. They're like superheroes. <laugh> But also I know most of our listeners know this, but it's worth reiterating the fact that kindergarten and first grade and second grade are critical years for literacy development. And we just can't take that for granted. We have to like use that time wisely.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

That's exactly right. You know, there's a role for each adult as children progress through those grades. And you know, it's ... During the pandemic, of course , which for some of our children, and I'll say this for our fourth grade students who have either taken NAEP this year, or in the process of taking NAEP this year, those students were in second grade, you know, when the pandemic began and didn't complete their second grade , year for most of them. So consider, you know, that teachers were having to teach children, you know, their sounds, how to hold their mouths when they're forming certain letters or sounds, and those types of things, things that are normally done in classrooms where teachers can be in close proximity to hold the mirror, you know, up to their mouths, to do all of these things. And so , it is extremely important for teachers to also now, especially for students who are matriculating kind of through the same, in the same school, for them to have additional conversations with teachers, because anecdotal data can prove to be just as important as those numbers that the computer, you know, report spits out. You know, how is this child doing? You know, we talk about social and emotional and all of those things that can also hinder a child's progress in reading. So having some conversations about, you know, how the child learns best, what were some challenges that they had before, those types of things can also inform the way in which a teacher responds to the student's needs a nd i n other ways, in which they can motivate them to learn.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah, that's so important. I wanna go back to this 2019 NAEP data, because you said legislation passed, you started your road show in 2013, you knocked it out of the park on NAEP in 2019. For our listeners that don't understand what you mean by knocking it out of the park in 2019. Do you wanna explain that?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Of course! You know, 2019 , I think is the year that everyone references because Mississippi, for the first time in the history of NAEP , tied with the nation's skills for average of 219 , and then we also were the only state in the nation that made those statistically significant gains in fourth grade reading. In addition to that, our low income , white, black, and Hispanic fourth graders outscored their peers nationally. So this is not about a zip code, right? All children can learn, but it was really slow and steady for us. So we were kind of quietly making these gaines. Our law passed in 2013, and I know it's gonna seem odd that I know these numbers by heart <laugh> , but just go with me on this. Our law passed in 2013 and our fourth grade students had an average skills score of 209 on NAEP, right? Within two years. So before the retention component went into place for third graders within two years, those fourth graders in 2015, actually scored 214. So we went up five scale score points within the first two years of implementation. Now that can be contributed to several things. We have put literacy coaches in schools , we had begun universal screening, we had the begun training teachers in the Science of Reading, we had also transitioned to our college and career readiness standards, which is really kind of like common core, but we can no longer say that. And , also we shifted to a new assessment. An assessment that was more rigorous , that was more aligned to NAEP into those collage career readiness standards. So we had several things going on during that time. It wasn't just, we passed a law. It was, we passed a law, we had other things in place, now we had more boots on the ground than ever from our state agency that was in the schools, helping them to make this shift , instead of just being known as the auditing agency. You know, 'cause at first they were like, I don't want MDE in my building <laugh>. So it really kind of changed the perception of the agency by us putting people in those buildings that were there to actually help and not just evaluate our audit. So in 2015, we increased five skills score points to 215. In 2017 , we increased one skill score point to 215. And so again, we were still, Dr . Wright would always say, well, we're still moving in the right direction. Right? But then in 2019 , um, we increased from 215 to 219, which was four scale score points. Again, still fewer than the ones we...the big jump we made in 2015, but it was just phenomenal that there were instances that many states kind of lost ground. Whereas we improved , we made those games. So of course there were, you know, all of these questions about, well, what is Mississippi doing? Right? You know, what are they doing? And so even when you give a checklist, it's kind of how you started this conversation. Even if you give a checklist to say these things, universal screenings, PD , parental notification, all of those things--it's still gonna be about the how, and it's still going to be about the funding to make these things work. So it's still going to be those things that actually make this thing go.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

You know?

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. And hearing you talk about all of that, that it wasn't one thing, it was 2013 to 2019. There's just not a silver bullet. It's a systems approach. It's slow and steady and it, like, we need to keep our finger on it all the time. It's not a one and done proposition.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

That is exactly right. You know, I began to increase my literacy coaching staff again, when we started, there were 23 plus me. I left the agency in 2019. By that time I had about 79 literacy coaches in over 180 schools. School districts that were, o r schools that were not receiving literacy coaches from the agency were asking, well, if we hire o ur own literacy coaches, will you train them for us? You know, we had developed modules early on for literacy coach training so that we can multiply our efforts for those schools that we could not reach because we didn't have enough coaches to reach everyone. So we began to multiply our efforts, and then again, we provided professional development across the state as well. Now I'll say this, our state chief made t he structural changes at the department. So when you talk about a systems change, you know, she said, okay. She came in, Dr . Wright came in from the East Coast. Maryland, and said, okay, we don't even have an office of early childhood education in our state agency. Right? So she set up an office of early childhood. She made my position, not just K3, but state literacy director, K12. Right? She created an office of intervention services. 'Cause if we're asking teachers to provide these interventions and you know, to screen students for dyslexia, we might wanna have a number they can call and a person that can answer the phone <laugh> to respond to these questions. Right? We didn't have that. So she created an office of intervention services and then also set up an office of professional development where school districts can request PD on demand. So there were again, you know, it is not as simple as saying we adopted the Science of Reading. But the Science of Reading and literacy was at the core of everything that took place within the chief academic office, through special education when they submitted their state systemic improvement plan. Their focus was literacy with professional development. The focus is literacy with, you know, English learners. So this became a focus of the chief academic office. And we all had to figure out how can we move together as a unit to make literacy work for everyone and for it to be threaded throughout the work that we all did.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . That's amazing. I've heard you on other podcasts say it had to be Mississippi. What do you mean by that?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

<laugh>, You know , I say that because again, there are these wars, as you stated about the reading wars and there were these states that are always doing well, you know, our top 10, you know, on NAEP, you know, it's just kind of the same. They may shift or rearrange in some places, but we always kind of see them there, you know, out Northeastern states and those things. And no one was really worried about what they were doing. It was just a given , you know, either they have a wealthier population or they just have all these great schools. And it was just a given that there were some that were always going to be first, and there were some that were always going to be last. And Mississippi was always in the conversation of one of the states that was just always gonna be last. And so I think it had to be Mississippi because it really did get these states to look at us to say, wait a minute, what are y'all doing? And y'all are moving low income kids? Like, you know, y'all are moving minorities? You all are moving ... so what is it that you're doing there? And then, you know, we talk about looking under the hood. And I do say we can no longer mask how well states are doing by how well white students are doing. We have to begin to look at how are our black students improving? And even in some of these states that are historically, you know, top 10 on NAEP, when you look at their subgroup data, you know, there's a gap of 26, 27, 28 scale score points . So are we really improving the literacy outcomes of all of our students? And we're not. And the great thing is when states can realize that and say , you know, I know what the rankings may say, but we know that we're not doing all that we can be doing to support all kids. So let's do something about it. So in addition to states that haven't been doing well that have adopted this literacy legislation, we've had other states that are doing well. That said, you know, we understand that there's not a coherent system. So we want to put this into law to make sure that we're all moving in the right direction. So I think that has been the, you know, one of the best things about this movement , you know, especially on the legislative side. You know, we talked about what's changing in classrooms and our dynamic administrators and superintendents who make change, but this movement by states and by these legislators, I think that has come by saying, okay, let's really look at what we're doing, and we know that we could be doing a lot more.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . That's amazing. What about other states across the country? Have you seen even anecdotally successes that they're having similar to Mississippi?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Well , there are a lot of changes that are being made with our states. And I'll say that, that influx of funding from the Cares Act, again, we can find another thing <laugh> that the pandemic has done to kind of, you know , to really let us take a good look at what we've been doing in education. In Tennessee, Tennessee passed their Literacy Success Act and they invested over $140 million into early literacy , whether it's training for teachers , supports and systems in place for parents, you know, assessment assistance for students. So the governor, and of course the education chief , Penny Schwinn , they have really come together with the legislature of course, and made a big, bold investment into literacy. Other states like Colorado and, you know, even Arkansas, Arkansas has banned three-cueing.

Susan Lambert:

In their laws , right?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

In law. Yeah . And, you know, with consequences, you know, for schools and districts to continue using those materials. So we have seen some big shifts. We have also seen some states that have been making gains. Colorado is one of those states that were making gains. And then again, in 2019, you know, I always like to say to states to just really kind of look at their trend line and, and think about what was going on in your state in those years where you made those dips. Mm-hmm , <affirmative> Maybe there was a change in leadership. Maybe there was a change in focus. Sometimes we change leaders, their priorities change . So, you know, what was actually going on, where you even made gains, or you had dips , to just kind of begin to document those things, because we can't know, you know, how we got better, unless we've documented how, you know, what we were doing. And I think that's the one thing too, that Mississippi has done very well, is that we've created a model, you know, we can replicate this model , and we've been able to do that year after year after year. And we've been able to see the benefits of, if these things work, let's do them again, <laugh> , you know . Let's find ways to do them more efficiently if needed, but begin to replicate or begin to first identify what your model is and that's successful, and then to do those things over and over again. So we've seen states that of course are moving towards that, and then the pandemic of course has just haulted some of the data collection that we were having before. And so now we're just wanting to see how our students have performed on this national data for 2022 , and then just where those gaps are so we can get back to work again.

Susan Lambert:

Mm-hmm <affirmative> That makes sense. What about other interesting things that are maybe really important to what's happening in the classroom, but sort of sit outside of, you know, the direct school environment?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Well, our relationships with our institutions of higher learning, our education teacher prep programs , we have, you know, really been having conversations over the last few years about the role that educated prep plays in making sure that our teachers are ready to teach children how to read on day one. So imagine the money that we're spending now on professional development for in-service teachers, for those teachers who are standing in front of students every day. Imagine if our candidates exit programs with this knowledge already, and then the money we spend on PD can be repurposed for coaches, or to ensure that we're investing in materials, or for other types of resources. So we want to begin to see ourselves kind of like as a P16, as a continuum, you know, we need higher ed to see themselves in K12 outcomes. There's no separation, it doesn't just stop at 12th grade, and then now higher ed you take over. How well we prepare children in K12 directly impacts how they' going to function and how successful they'll be in college. If they have to take remedial courses, if they, you know, those things. So we have to see the role of K12 and how we impact those students going to college and heir rate of, of course, graduation, you know, are exiting those programs, but then they also have to see how, what they are teaching in those courses specifically in those courses that are preparing students to become teachers. How it directly impacts that cycle, you know, all over again. So now it's actually being named in legislation, Susan. So,

Susan Lambert:

Yeah . <laugh> I was gonna ask you that.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Oh yeah. So Tennessee is one of the states , North Carolina is one of the states, that is actually put into legislation that , you know, a role for teacher prep, you know, hey, we have some requirements for you too. We have a role that you also play in this , which is to ensure that in their courses, that they are teaching their candidates, how to teach using scientifically-based reading instruction, how to administer these universal screeners of diagnostic assessments and even, you know , screeners for dyslexia, but then also how to use that data to make instructional decisions, how to respond to that. And then places like Ohio, they've done some grassroots efforts, especially with Mount St Joseph and their local school district, where professors and administrators are learning together with professional development in the Science of Reading. They're also being very intentional about student teacher placements to ensure that those student teachers are learning from those teachers who are using this scientific-based reading instructional practices. So, you know , there are all of these different ways in which we can begin to engage with higher ed and teacher prep. And not just for, again, those pre-service candidates, but also for teachers who are, who are in classrooms right now.

Susan Lambert:

Wow. It's a big movement and a lot of change in a lot of areas, isn't, it?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

It is. It's an exciting movement as well.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . That's great. Well, as we sort of wrap up, this has been so fun to have this conversation , what kind of thoughts or advice or things to ponder do you have for our listeners as you leave us?

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

All right . So there's gonna be some different advice for different groups.

Susan Lambert:

Awesome . Oh, I love this differentiation here.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

That's right. So for state agencies, you know, I will say to state agencies to walk in your authority . Local control should not discourage you from giving this guidance. That's where, you know, we have a lot of our experts gathered in state agencies. So, although there's local control in many of our states, just let that not be something that discourages you from giving this guidance on best practices and expectations for your districts. They are looking to you for this guidance, so , just go forth in your authority to make sure that you're providing that. For our administrators, I will say, be informed. Become informed on your own. You know, again, like I said earlier, it's great to have this group of trusted advisors. But there has to be, okay, this group is saying these things about the Science of Reading. Let me try to figure out what this thing is all about. Or there's this war. I know we've been looking at balanced literacy in our school, but there's this thing. This is called the Science of Reading. Let me become more informed about what it is and to make those decisions in my school. And I just, you know, feel like teachers and students and families that are looking to use administrators to really take charge and to lead them, to make sure that their children are being successful. And then for teachers, I'll say, find your people. I always say that. Find your people, find your podcast, find your favorite Facebook group , and inform your communities. You know, sometimes it's called crisis bonding. You know, sometimes it's just like, you know, you're the only one in your school who really wants to do this and you can't find anyone else, you know, but, but find your people and make sure that you are learning as much as you can. And, also asking questions about it. I remember having some coaches who left me and they're like, oh, this has been great. But now that I know so much, I really wanna go back and do this with children. I need my own classroom again.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. Wow.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

So I had two coaches who I'd never met until they became coaches for me. And they left at the same time and told a school district, you have to hire us both, and you have to hire us both to teach third grade. And the district did <laugh> and their classrooms are right next to each other. But they are just rocking it because they were like, I didn't know all these things when I was teaching before. So , teachers are superheroes , and this is where all of the magic happens , in the classroom. And we have to be able to support our teachers to do that. And it just takes everyone, again from the legislators, you know, on down to make this thing happen and bring teachers to the table. They have to be a part of the conversation. You know, they don't get the emails, you know, sometimes they're just told in the staff meeting, hey, well, we're adopting this material. Let them know the why , so that they can understand why this shift is happening.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . Well, Dr . Kymyona Burke, it's been amazing. We appreciate you for sharing this and appreciate you for the work that you're doing. Our kids deserve it, and we're glad that you're leading this effort across the country. So thank you so much.

Dr. Kymyona Burk:

Thank you so much for having me today.

Susan Lambert:

Thanks for listening and keep your feedback coming. Want to learn more, be sure to stay connected by subscribing to your favorite podcast app and join our Facebook discussion group, Science of Reading the community.