For the second episode in our new season focused on tackling the hard stuff, we're taking on a question that listeners have asked: how can we apply the Science of Reading in a Montessori setting? To help explore that question, we're joined by the three authors of the recent book Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice. Listen to Dr. Susan Zoll, Dr. Natasha Feinberg, and Dr. Laura Saylor as they explore the shared qualities between the Science of Reading and Montessori approach. They share tips and guidance for literacy instruction both inside and outside a Montessori setting and end with an impassioned call to educators from all approaches to come together and learn from each other for the benefit of students everywhere.
Show notes:
Quotes:
“Maria Montessori was a scientist first. She developed her methods based on science.” —Laura Saylor
“Reading is the human rights issue of our era in education and we want all children to be successful.”—Susan Zoll
“I encourage everyone, get together with your colleagues, talk about the different pedagogy, talk about the different strategies that are out there, because that is what is going to help us become better in the field of education.”— Natasha Feinberg
“For those trained in both Science of Reading and Montessori education, there were clear and undeniable parallels between them.”—Susan Zoll
“Teachers want students to be good readers. That is what is underlying our instruction— whether we are Montessori, whether we're teaching in a public school.”—Natasha Feinberg
“If you're a Montessori and continue to use your Montessori language, absolutely follow your philosophy and the pedagogy, but also begin to engage with this language of research because it can elevate the conversation and it can expand our reach into the greater world of education.”—Susan Zoll
“Come see what we do and know that we're willing to share.” —Laura Saylor
“We all want children to have access to wonderful reading instruction. We all want children to have the opportunities and life that each of them deserves. And if we are not working together and we're busy labeling and [in a] silo then we really aren't going to have the collective impact we might have otherwise.” —Laura Saylor
For the second episode in our new season focused on tackling the hard stuff, we're taking on a question that listeners have asked: how can we apply the Science of Reading in a Montessori setting? To help explore that question, we're joined by the three authors of the recent book Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice. Listen to Dr. Susan Zoll, Dr. Natasha Feinberg, and Dr. Laura Saylor as they explore the shared qualities between the Science of Reading and Montessori approach. They share tips and guidance for literacy instruction both inside and outside a Montessori setting and end with an impassioned call to educators from all approaches to come together and learn from each other for the benefit of students everywhere.
Show notes:
Quotes:
“Maria Montessori was a scientist first. She developed her methods based on science.” —Laura Saylor
“Reading is the human rights issue of our era in education and we want all children to be successful.”—Susan Zoll
“I encourage everyone, get together with your colleagues, talk about the different pedagogy, talk about the different strategies that are out there, because that is what is going to help us become better in the field of education.”— Natasha Feinberg
“For those trained in both Science of Reading and Montessori education, there were clear and undeniable parallels between them.”—Susan Zoll
“Teachers want students to be good readers. That is what is underlying our instruction— whether we are Montessori, whether we're teaching in a public school.”—Natasha Feinberg
“If you're a Montessori and continue to use your Montessori language, absolutely follow your philosophy and the pedagogy, but also begin to engage with this language of research because it can elevate the conversation and it can expand our reach into the greater world of education.”—Susan Zoll
“Come see what we do and know that we're willing to share.” —Laura Saylor
“We all want children to have access to wonderful reading instruction. We all want children to have the opportunities and life that each of them deserves. And if we are not working together and we're busy labeling and [in a] silo then we really aren't going to have the collective impact we might have otherwise.” —Laura Saylor
In schools and in education, whether it's Montessori, not Montessori, we're brothers and sisters in this work.
Susan Lambert:This is Susan Lambert, and welcome to Science of Reading: The Podcast. On this seventh season, we're helping you tackle the hard stuff, by answering some of our listeners' most pressing questions. One question I've gotten again and again is about how to apply the Science of Reading in a Montessori setting. Well , just recently a new book came out on exactly this topic. It's called Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice. And for this episode, I'm joined by the book's three authors, Dr. Susan Zoll, Dr. Natasha Feinberg, and Dr. Laura Saylor. We spoke late February, just a few weeks after the book's release. And Susan, Natasha, and Laura did a fantastic job explaining how and why the Science of Reading and Montessori do align. And they shared lessons from their research that apply to all educators, whether or not they're in a Montessori setting. So no matter which education community you belong to, I think you'll find this discussion filled with useful information. Now here's my conversation with Susan, Natasha and Laura. Well, ladies, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode to talk about your new book. And I'd love if we could just take a little minute here to introduce to our listeners who you are, so they can hear from you . Obviously they can't see you, but it'd be helpful if they can hear from you who you are and what brought you to this book. So maybe we'll start with Susan.
Susan Zoll:Hi, I'm Susan Zoll. I'm an associate professor at Rhode Island College, and my work has kind of spanned from Montessori education as an educator, a head of school , in teacher preparation. And then I worked on several federally funded Early Reading First projects. That was like a whole new world about what the Science of Reading was. And now I am an associate professor at Rhode Island College and focusing on children's early language and literacy through my courses.
Susan Lambert:Great. Thank you. And Natasha, we'll have you go next.
Natasha Feinberg:Hi everyone. I'm Natasha Feinberg. I am an assistant professor at Rhode Island College. So I work just down the hall, office, from Susan here. And I was so fortunate to work with these two wonderful ladies on this book. I teach in the undergrad department, the Ed. department for Literacy. I also direct the Masters of Reading program at Rhode Island College. And my area of expertise really is the Science of Reading. I'm the one of the three of us who actually was not a previous Montessori teacher. I taught for 17 years in the public school as a reading specialist and a literacy coach. And this has just been such a fabulous experience. So I am thrilled to be here today.
Susan Lambert:Great, thanks, Natasha. And Laura, last but not least!
Laura Saylor:<laugh> So my name's Laura Saylor, and I am the dean for the School of Education at Mount St . Joseph University. I've been here for 10 years, and prior to that I spent 25 years working as a teacher, a Montessori teacher , at the early childhood and the elementary levels and serving as a Head of School at a Montessori school. So yeah—so, so happy to get to do this work with Susan and Natasha.
Susan Lambert:Well, I am so excited about this book and I know our listeners are just dying to hear more about this topic, because we often get asked about how does Montessori fit with the Science of Reading. So when I saw the book was being written, I pre-ordered it. And it is fabulous. So that's my response. But I'm sure you've gotten other responses other than mine. So what kind of responses are you getting about this book?
Susan Zoll:Well, yes, the book was just released a few weeks ago by Teachers College Press. And that alone, we're just so honored and thrilled to have the book released through their publication. And in all honesty, we've already had such positive responses from readers. For example, we presented at a national Montessori conference and a group from Colorado made it a point to let us know that this book is exactly what was needed to clarify both the Science of Reading for those who were unfamiliar with the compendium of research, but also how the Montessori pedagogy aligns with this evidence-based reading instruction. We've had some state departments of education reaching out, hoping for some professional development, especially those states that have publicly funded Montessori schools.
Susan Lambert:Wow, that's amazing. And I'm guessing you didn't really expect to have quite that reach quite that fast. Is that true?
Susan Zoll:Oh, I would say that's true. I think we're still surprised when we're seeing people, posting on Instagram , pages from the book and underlining our words and posting it.
Susan Lambert:For sure. Well, congratulations on all that. So tell us a little bit about how this came to be. I mean, obviously in just the little bit of time and the impact it's had , obviously it was important to write. But why was it important for you all to write this book?
Susan Zoll:Yeah, I think I wanna approach this in two different ways. So the book came about because, as you know, there are these two worlds, right? One was this growing Science of Reading movement that has gathered mounting evidence about how children learn to read, along with the Montessori pedagogy that's been around for over a hundred years, with a particular growth in public school settings over the last 20 years. So for those trained in both Science of Reading and Montessori education, there were clear and undeniable parallels between them. As states continued to pass reading legislation, public Montessori schools needed a way to demonstrate that they are in fact aligned to reading research. And we hope that the book would serve as a proxy for this research, some of which that's already underway. But in all honesty, as you heard from the introductions , this is the perfect team to accomplish this task.
Susan Lambert:That's amazing. Natasha, not to call you out, but I'm gonna call you out, just for this <laugh>. Because I think on the pre-call you said, "Eh, I wasn't...". You're like, you're a not a Montessori person. You're the Science of Reading expert that's sitting on this team. Were you completely convinced in the Montessori approach prior to coming to this book?
Natasha Feinberg:I have to admit that I did not know a lot about Montessori coming to this book at all. And I have learned a lot through the writing of this book. To me, the important thing is that teachers want students to be good readers. That is what is underlying our instruction, whether we are Montessori, whether we're teaching in a public school. And this book just really solidified to me that we all have that common goal, and we really often don't even know how, you know, different pedagogy might look. There's so much to learn from each other.
Susan Lambert:That's amazing. I loved that story from the pre-call. So , it does feel, Susan, like a dream team that you have here. And what I'd like to do is...I'd love for y'all to talk a little bit about what Montessori is, because I think there's some misconceptions. Obviously , especially, with regard to the Science of Reading, but I think there's also some just not understanding...people don't really know what Montessori is.
Laura Saylor:So, yeah, and I think the place where I'd like to start is that Maria Montessori was a scientist first. She developed her methods based on science. A lot of people don't know that about her. You know, they think of her as a thinker and a philosopher. And she did have those things, you know, those components to her practice. But they all stemmed from science. She had graduated as the only , at the time , the only woman doctor from the University of Rome. And she began practice , working with special-needs children , in more of a health kind of setting. But what she found is as she worked with these special needs children , is that she could practice different strategies, practice different methods, and take a very scientific approach. So she would study very carefully, almost like a biologist would study in nature, if you will. She took very careful notes. She saw how they responded and saw which things she did that could contribute to their achievement, but also to their independence and to their ability to even speak for themselves. So, very much rooted in science. And I think the other piece is that she also began her work, after she had worked with children with special needs, she worked in really high-poverty settings in some of the poorest neighborhoods of Rome, where parents were oftentimes working—both parents had to work to afford shelter, to afford food. So the children were usually just left to their own devices all day long. So she started with really young children, three- to six-year-olds, and brought her method there, continually refined it, using a very scientific approach. And became very famous based on the fact from the data that she had and from the results that everybody could clearly see with state examinations and things like that, that her students were surpassing so-called typically developing kids and children from higher , um, socioeconomic status. So, really interesting that that's how she really got her start. And sometimes that's not always recognized. Does that make sense?
Susan Lambert:Yeah, I love that. I love that story. Because there's a scientist behind the approach. So thank you for sharing that. And if you would, say some of the key elements of the Montessori approach. What are those?
Laura Saylor:So I think the first thing is, you know, if I think about the key elements of the Montessori approach, and she wrote this in one of her books—I'm paraphrasing, but she said, "Education methods must be determined by science, not by simple philosophies or theories, even from brilliant minds." They could be brilliant minds with philosophies or theories, but they have to come from science. So I think that's really key. I think some of the key components of Montessori , a lot of times when people walk into a Montessori classroom, they see a lot of children doing different things, right? They see this kind of freedom going on in the room, and it can be oftentimes mistaken for "The children just come in and do what they want." But there's a lot of structure, a lot of explicit systems underlying that, that make that freedom possible. So, in Montessori, we often refer to that as freedom with boundaries. <Laugh> If you will. So I think that's a key component. I think the other piece is that the Montessori teacher is supposed to consider herself or himself a teacher who is a keen observer and who collects data and who understands their learners to such a degree that they can figure out what are the next best instructional steps. So all those things you see the children doing when you walk into a Montessori room have often been suggested or encouraged by a Montessori teacher. How am I doing, Susan?
Susan Lambert:You're... <Laugh> We gotta decide which Susan we're talking to, right? <laugh>
Laura Saylor:Yes. Yes. So I'm just wondering if Susan Zoll has anything else she'd wanna add, about, you know, the key components of a Montessori classroom.
Susan Zoll:Well, it brings me back to what you were sharing just this weekend about explicit instruction. Do you think this is a good place to maybe add some of that?
Laura Saylor:Yeah, I think that that is such a great one.
Susan Lambert:Yeah, some similarities between Montessori and Science of Reading? Maybe that's a good place to go.
Laura Saylor:Absolutely. Thank you, both Susans! And I think what I'd say on that one is just that one of the types of research we employed was using text analysis. And so we looked really carefully at the texts, key texts. And two key texts really aligned beautifully. One was the Montessori method, and it aligned beautifully with Anita Archer and Charles Hughes' explicit instruction. So if you hear the terms from Anita Archer and Charles Hughes, when you look at explicit instruction, we hear "present new material" and "small steps."That's consistent with what Montessori wrote. As far as, you know, being concise and taking very simple steps. They talked about modeling procedures, which is exactly what Montessori teachers do when they present lessons. And Montessori wrote about that. "Using clear language" is what explicit instruction says. And Montessori, you know, we're trained to make sure that we show very carefully the students how to use it, but we also make sure we use only the language necessary so that we don't digress and go into other areas where it might confuse the matter, if you will. You know, explicit instruction talks about providing quick feedback, and Montessori materials are actually designed to provide quick feedback to students even without the teacher necessarily being present for it. But there is a quick feedback loop that's in the Montessori as well. And of course, independent practice , and becoming more fluent and automated in one's work, is very consistent with Montessori, and her call for repetition and mastery . So a lot of similarities there.
Susan Lambert:It's really interesting because if somebody would say to me how Montessori and Science of Reading were similar, that would've probably been the last thing I thought of, the similarity with explicit instruction. And so I think it highlights that connection Laura highlights, a lot of misconception in terms of the Montessori approach being sort of freeform, versus, you know, really well thought-out.
Laura Saylor:Yes. In fact, it was interesting. So , I work with Dr. Amy Murdoch, and when I first came to the Mount—this is going back probably 10 years ago—she started telling me how Montessori had a lot consistent with explicit instruction, and I thought, "No, I don't think so." But then when I read—and she gave me the book, of course — when I read explicit instruction, of course I saw all the parallels. And so it really is something that at first glance, one might think, "No, those don't go together," but when you look deeply, they go quite well, hand-in-hand.
Susan Lambert:Thank you for that. And Susan, I wonder before we jump in to talk about the book explicitly , is there anything that you would like our listeners to know? Anything more about Montessori and the Montessori approach?
Susan Zoll:I think the one thing that I would just add...everything that Laura outlined is absolutely correct. I think the one thing that keeps us from seeing each other easily or well enough or accurately is because we have two different languages. Montessori still holds on to the language of Maria Montessori. And we all understand each other within our own community. And I would say that's also true for those who are deeply engaged in the Science of Reading. We have our own language. And so we're hoping this book becomes some sort of a bridge to both of those languages. And we hope that all educators will begin to use both. If you're a Montessorian, continue to use your Montessori language. Absolutely, follow your philosophy and the pedagogy. But also begin to engage with this language of research, because it can elevate the conversation and it can expand our reach into the greater world of education.
Susan Lambert:You know, thank you for that. That's , a really important comment, to get underneath the vocabulary. Because I think one thing in education we're so good at is using education lingo, what I call it, and we don't actually get into a deeper conversation of "What do you really mean when you say that word? In what context, and for what purpose?" And so I think that's a great general comment to remind our listeners of, but also very important as it relates to how you organize this book. Because the organization of this book is around Hollis Scarborough's Reading Rope. And , first of all, brilliant! And I don't know, listeners, you have to get this book even if you're not a Montessori person, and you just wanna learn more about the Science of Reading. It's amazing. But why did you decide to actually organize it around that Reading Rope?
Natasha Feinberg:Well, we are so fortunate that Hollis Scarborough allowed us to use her graphic representation of the Reading Rope. It really did become the backbone, the organizational element, that we used in this writing. And it worked so well for us, because it kept in perspective that whether we're talking Montessori, whatever pedagogy we're talking about, we are looking at the most important reading skills that need to be taught. And so the Reading Rope is this rope that intertwines these skills for us. And there are two main strands of this rope, Scarborough's Reading Rope. The word recognition strand, and the language comprehension strand. And within those strands there are eight sub-strands. We used this to guide us through the chapters of our book . So each chapter of our book looks at a separate strand, a separate skill of literacy. And this just worked out so well for us because one of the misconceptions behind the Science of Reading is that it is just phonics and just decoding. And while decoding is an important strand of Scarborough's Reading Rope, there's a lot more to being a skilled reader than just the phonics piece. And I think that this helps the readers—it helped us as writers—keep that in mind that we're really building the complete reader here, with all of their literacy skills. So as we looked at this, we certainly did emphasize the word recognition piece of phonics, but we also looked at that language comprehension element. And that is a very strong piece that I particularly found in the Montessori classroom. And how wonderful that we got to really celebrate a lot of the strengths that are already present in the Montessori classroom. And then we could take this framework and we could say, you know, look at your own teaching and see which strands are strongest for you in your classroom, and which ones maybe we need to add a little bit more support to . And that would go for any teacher.
Susan Lambert:That's great. And I'm gonna ask a question out of the blue, and I apologize that you may not be prepared for this, but I wonder: In the process of writing this book, if, what did you learn? What did you learn more deeply, either about the Montessori approach or about Scarborough's Reading Rope and the Science of Reading framework? Anything come to mind for any of you?
Natasha Feinberg:Well, for me personally, I think it is how intertwined these skills become. It's really not teach one skill in isolation and then master that and move on to the next skill. It's that they all support each other, and work together so closely that a skilled teacher is going to be incorporating all these elements of the rope into their instruction.
Susan Lambert:That's amazing. That's such a good point. Laura or Susan?
Susan Zoll:Well, one thing that stands out for me.... I won't name any boxed curricula. But when I think about states, how we're all moving towards high-quality instructional materials, and I think about ELA materials, so often districts or state Departments of Education have to select multiple curricula in order to meet all of those strands. And I think one of the things that was an "aha," I think I kind of knew it, but it was really good to kind of lay it out as we did, as we were writing: Montessori is really a comprehensive ELA curriculum. I mean, it's not just that. It's certainly more than that. But we can touch on, in the classroom, all of the strands. There are one or two strands that could certainly use some additional support. There are some materials. But for the most part, almost all of the strands are very heartily filled with activities for students. So I don't think I realized before we started writing.
Susan Lambert:That's great. That's amazing. How about an example. So I think each one of the chapters right, covers a different strand from from Scarborough's Reading Rope. Can you give us an example of one of those strands and how a Montessori classroom might approach that?
Natasha Feinberg:Certainly. I think I'll begin with the strand of decoding, since we have talked a lot about phonics in the Science of Reading. And, you know, in the Montessori classroom you have the movable alphabet, which is this wonderful box of wooden alphabet letters. And the students, as they are developing their literacy skills, go to this set of letters and they start thinking, you know, " I wanna make this word, this word 'cat,'" and listening for the sounds "C" "-AT." And they choose the letters to build that word, and begin that word-building process. And then they start putting those words together to make sentences. Eventually they then can translate those and write them down and really inscribe them and code them. It just really shows you that those pieces there, for the phonics, the decoding, are right there in the many materials that are afforded in the Montessori classroom.
Susan Lambert:That's a great example. And again, for our listeners, each chapter sort of goes through the strand, what it is, and why it's important for literacy development, and then also provides at least one example from Montessori that actually supports that.
Susan Zoll:And those CVC words, Susan, that's not unusual for three- and four-year-olds to be using the movable alphabet. In those very early stages of initial sounds of words or doing CVC words. And then moving into the elementary classrooms for six- to nine-year-olds, those same tools are used, but now we're constructing sentences or paragraphs.
Susan Lambert:So, building from skills that are easier to more complicated. So, a cumulative kind of approach, just like we talk about in the Science of Reading. Then any other examples that you'd like to provide from the book at all? Anything from the...maybe the language-comprehension side of the house?
Laura Saylor:Yeah , so I think one of the things is that, you know, we hoped that as we did this book, but really as we were studying, looking at each strand of the rope and how it might be practiced in a Montessori room and how we might see practices from Science of Reading happening in a more typical context. It was interesting to find, yes, the areas where Montessori education was really showing, "Wow, we've got great strategies here." I think one of the things that I took away was that the strand that deals with inferencing was weaker in a Montessori classroom. So it was an area where we encourage our Montessori colleagues to look at the part that follows in that chapter from the Science of Reading community on how we can be better at having materials that really support that strand for inferencing.
Susan Lambert:That's a great example. I love that you are all approaching this too with the scientist's mind. Right? Like, a really open mind, to say that when we were looking at both of these approaches, we noticed we needed to do this or we noticed we needed to do that. So it's not a "my way's better than your way" approach. It's really a melding of these two things coming together.
Laura Saylor:Absolutely, absolutely.
Susan Lambert:Yes. That, I hope, is part of the impact of the book, but I'd really love to hear what you've heard about how it's being applied even in this short time period.
Susan Zoll:So our hope is that we're going to influence the work of classroom teachers and their school administrators. We think that there's a place for those who prepare pre-service teachers, as well as researchers who focus on early literacy or reading instruction. So for Montessori educators and their school administrators, we hope the book will provide additional language, like we were talking about earlier, they can wrap around their Montessori vernacular. That classroom materials like the moveable alphabet can now be connected to the Decoding strand in Scarborough's Reading Rope, as an example. And then for those who are preparing teachers, that they will expand their teaching to include research in terminology alongside their Montessori content. In fact, there's a state organization and higher education programming that have begun to reach out to us for support, so they can begin to make these updates to their own curriculum. And we hope that the book will serve as a resource to researchers who study reading instruction, so that they can expand their research to also include Montessori classrooms. And lastly, although I didn't name it to begin with, we do think that the book is even accessible for parents. For parents who may have their children in Montessori classrooms and also are hearing about this Science of Reading movement, to help them to understand what their child is experiencing in the three- to-six or six-to-nine or nine-to-12 classroom.
Susan Lambert:That's amazing. It just a fun fact. I have a niece that actually has her daughter in a Montessori preschool. And not only did I pre-order this book for me, I pre-ordered this book for Gretchen, too, so that she <laugh> could get a better understanding of Montessori and the Science of Reading. So thank you for doing that and, and naming those audiences, 'cause I think that is an amazing broad reach that you're going to have with this information. And I wonder, when we think about our listeners who actually aren't in Montessori classrooms, what do you think some of the lessons are from this book that that might be useful for them?
Laura Saylor:So I hope that for those who are not in Montessori settings, I hope it helps them understand Montessori schools a little bit more and what we're doing and, and really an appreciation for Maria Montessori, who developed the method so long ago. But because it was based in science, it's still relative today, right? So I think there's that piece. But I also think that...I hope they know that Montessorians are open to sharing. I think for so long we've all worked in all these different silos. And you know, I think Montessori teachers should be, and, and many are open to sharing. And I think there's materials such as the grammar symbols, for instance. So our way of teaching grammar to very young children, where grammar is exciting and they love learning about the parts of speech, and what the noun's job is, and what the adjective's job is, you know, and so we do that with really young kids. As early as kindergarten and first grade. And they diagram. Or they label their sentences and they learn about the noun family and all the different things that they can do with that which make learning about grammar very developmentally appropriate for younger grades. And it's done at a time when kids are excited about learning those things. So I think that's just one area where it's like, "Come see what we do, and know that we're willing to share," you know, would be a hope of mine, that we do.
Susan Lambert:So Natasha, from your point of view, from a professor who teaches the Science of Reading and doesn't necessarily teach Montessori: From your point of view, what do you think folks might take away from this book?
Natasha Feinberg:I think that they will read this book and be reminded of our sole purpose: of creating readers out of our students. And , you know, we were so fortunate we had Daniel and Trisha Willingham write the foreword to our book, and they summed it up so beautifully. Literally, I keep that foreword there and read it and remind myself like, "This is why I wanted to be a teacher: I want students to love reading and I want to help them develop those skills." They were able to so eloquently say, you know, this book can appeal to so many people because we have that sole purpose behind our instruction.
Susan Lambert:Yeah. You know, I think...Susan, was it you that mentioned this? I'm so glad that you brought up this introduction written by the Willinghams, because it's amazing. But Susan, was it you that mentioned that after you read their introduction, it just had a real powerful effect on you?
Susan Zoll:Well, when you're writing for over a year, and putting these thoughts together, and it's a group of three of us every Sunday morning, sharing our writing and, just kind of...talk about a silo! We were a silo to ourselves. And then to have the opportunity to read what the Willinghams had written for the foreword, we were...I don't know. I was blown away. I was just so grateful. It just...it was very affirming that the work that we have been doing was, we were on the right track and that others could see it.
Susan Lambert:Amazing. Well, I wonder , as we wrap up, if you all have any final thoughts for our listeners.
Laura Saylor:So one of the things that, that I've come to, and it's been evolving over time, is that if we get away from the labels and we just look at practices that are rooted in the science, that we would all be better teachers for it. I think, oftentimes, the silos have sometimes made us feel like maybe distant cousins <laugh> , but truly in schools and in education, whether it's Montessori, not Montessori, we're brothers and sisters in this work. We all want children to have access to wonderful reading instruction. We all want children to have the opportunities in life that each of them deserves. And if we are not working together, and we're busy labeling and siloing, then we really aren't gonna have the collective impact we might have otherwise. So really, for me, it's about recognizing all of us as educators who are dedicated to children's development and looking at the science that we're brothers and sisters in this work, and we need to share and work together if we really are, you know, going to make the impact we wanna make on children and on the world.
Susan Lambert:That's lovely. Susan, Natasha, either one of you have any final thoughts?
Natasha Feinberg:I think that this book has helped me realize how important the conversation is around the Science of Reading. And even here we are three professors, the conversations that we had writing this helped us to grow too. I think that everyone, whether you are a teacher, a professor, a student: the conversations that we're having now about reading are just so important. So I encourage everyone: Get together with your colleagues, talk about the different pedagogy, talk about the different strategies that are out there. Because that is what is going to help us become better in the field of education.
Susan Lambert:That is so great.
Susan Zoll:I'll just add and kind of build on what we have been saying, but haven't said it explicitly yet: We all believe very firmly—and I know that it comes out in the Science of Reading and I know in your podcast you have other people who have been , um, broaching this topic—but really, reading is the human rights issue of our era in education. And we want all children to be successful. And just as Laura was talking about, if there are ways that we can bridge our different experiences in teaching , to better serve young children so that they can be successful readers, so that we can move that NAEP score, I mean, however people wanna look at it, but we need successful readers before third grade. And we as their educators, we need to be doing all we can to ensure that that happens for all children.
Susan Lambert:Well, what a great punctuation mark on this amazing episode , about Montessori and the Science of Reading. And ladies, thank you so much for joining us on this episode. We will link our listeners in the show notes to the book, for sure. And we just appreciate that you have brought this issue to light. So thank you.
Susan Zoll:Thank you, Susan.
Natasha Feinberg:Thank you. Thanks so much.
Susan Lambert:Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Susan Zoll, Dr. Natasha Feinberg, and Dr. Laura Saylor. We'll have a link in the show notes to their book, Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice. If you haven't already, please subscribe to Science of Reading: The Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you're hearing, please rate us and leave us a review. It will help more listeners find the show. Also, you can find more information on all of Amplify's great podcasts on our new podcast hub, Amplify.com/hub. Next time on Science of Reading: The Podcast, we're continuing to tackle the hard stuff by challenging assumptions about small- and large-group instruction.
Speaker :There is no need that everyone in the classroom has to have a different comprehension focus and a lesson. We don't all have to have different syntactic awareness. There's a certain amount of proactive, preventative foundation-building work that should be done for all kids. And we can do that more efficiently in a whole-group setting, and then reserve that small-group setting for what truly needs to be differentiated.
Susan Lambert:That's next time. Thanks so much for listening.