Science of Reading: The Podcast

A better way to teach our teachers, with Dr. Karen Betz

• Amplify Education

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In this special episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Assistant Professor of Literacy and Coordinator of Reading Science Programs at Marian University Karen Betz, Ed.D., to discuss a key topic in the Science of Reading movement: higher education. Betz describes how we can better prepare new teachers to provide evidence-based instruction, and her tool to help teachers in higher education assess whether their courses align to reading research. Betz also offers advice for current practitioners on how they can support change at the university level.

Show notes:

Quotes:

“Don't be afraid to say ‘I don't know.’ I think people respect that, that you say, ‘I just don't know’ and ‘how can you help me learn more?’”—Karen Betz, Ed.D.

And it ultimately always is going to come down to the children, and we can never lose sight of that. It's about the kids.” —Karen Betz, Ed.D.

Episode timestamps*
02:00 Introduction: Who is Karen Betz
07:00 First lightbulb moment
09:00 Why is higher education teacher education a hot topic right now?
12:00 Relationship between schools and universities
14:00 Partnering with reading science aligned grade schools
17:00 Legislation for teacher development
20:00 Collaboration between universities
23:00 Professional development for higher education
25:00 Creating a tool to help higher education teachers
32:00 Key takeaways for Dr. Karen Betz
35:00 Final thoughts
*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute



Karen Betz:

When I was a classroom teacher, I wasn't thinking about the university anymore. But I think what needs to happen is a partnership.

Susan Lambert:

This is Susan Lambert and welcome to Science of Reading: The Podcast from Amplify. If you're a regular listener of the show, you know that a critical part of the Science of Reading movement is ensuring that pre-service teachers get the proper training. Today's guest has a thought-provoking vision for how schools and universities can better collaborate. Her name is Dr. Karen Betz, and she's an assistant professor of literacy and coordinator of reading science programs for Klipsch Educators College at Marian University in Indianapolis. At Marian, Dr. Betz launched a master's degree in reading science, the first of its kind in the state of Indiana. On this episode, we're going to speak with Dr. Betz about her ideas for how in-service teachers, schools, and universities can all work together. We're also going to talk about state literacy legislation around the country and the impact it's having on teacher training programs. We're going to learn about the course alignment planning tool, a tool Dr. Betz co-authored as part of her own dissertation research, in which she used to design the program at Marian University. I'm now so excited to bring her onto the show. Well, Dr. Karen Betz, we are so excited to have you on today's episode. Thank you so much for joining.

Karen Betz:

Well, thank you for having me. It's such a thrill to be here.

Susan Lambert:

We would love it, and I know our listeners would love it, if you could do a little introduction. Maybe talk a little bit about your path into the Science of Reading, including how you ended up in higher education.

Karen Betz:

Yeah. So I think like many of your listeners, my story is pretty similar, which when I graduated from undergrad, I thought I was equipped with what I needed, but in all reality I wasn't. I taught in Ohio for 18 years like that, predominantly in second and fourth. And in those grades, you know, a majority of the students were able to decode. But those that were having struggles with that, I was not equipped with how to support them. Frankly, I didn't know about the structure of English, and I absolutely didn't know how to teach that explicitly. So really things turned for me when I moved to Indiana about 10 years ago, and I couldn't get a classroom job because I was too qualified. I too much experience, I was too expensive. So I ended up working for the large urban district in Indianapolis, and I was hired as a pilot program, which they called me a read by three coach. And the M.A. Rooney Foundation, they were hiring coaches to go in and support kindergarten, first, and second grade teachers with a Tier 1 approach to Orton-Gillingham.

Susan Lambert:

Okay.

Karen Betz:

Now, I had heard of Orton-Gillingham, and I knew that's what special ed teachers do, and it involved cards, <laugh> . That's about the extent that I knew, but I was supposed to pull off a week training and then coach. So that's what I did. And that's when the light bulb came on for me , of, "Oh, I didn't know any of this and this was the missing piece." And you would've thought that that would've been enough for me to understand. But honestly, I just thought, "Okay, I have my missing piece, but I can continue to do everything else that I've learned, like the three-cueing system." And I even went into a district coaching job and supported teachers in schools with the three-queuing, but also talked about phonics. So , I was struggling a bit with how all the pieces fit.

Susan Lambert:

mm - hmm <affirmative> .

Karen Betz:

And so I ended up having two Marian University students and I was their mentor teacher, and they said, "You know, you would be a great professor." And I thought, "Oh, that's so sweet." But I have never thought about being in higher ed, nor did I have any interest in it. But I ended up going to the interview and I will say the position was an assistant professor of literacy, and this will tell you how little I knew about the position because I said, "does this mean that I'm going to assist a professor?" <Laugh> And I'm very embarrassed that I asked that question. But , it just showed my, you know , innocence in terms of what I was stepping into. Mm-hmm . And honestly, I think they had exhausted all of the Ph.D. applicants and decided they wanted a practitioner. So I had been in schools for 22 years and that's when I really started my journey. That's when all the puzzle pieces started to fit in for me because the first course I taught had an excellent text, which was the Teaching Reading sourcebook. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And I literally learned along with that first group of students. I was probably a week or two ahead of them in the reading, although there were some parts of that book that I didn't understand, like the four-part processing system. Had no idea how to explain that. So I just skipped that part. And so anyway, fast forward, I decided about year two or three that I needed to know more, and so I found out about Mount St. Joseph University, which I'm from Cincinnati, and I knew of the Mount, but I didn't know what they were offering. And I talked to Dr. Amy Murdoch and I said, "This is my situation, I've been in higher ed for about two or three years here and I need to know more and my students deserve for me to know more." And she said, "Well, we have a doctoral program, but before you can apply for it, I need you to take the first five courses in the master's program." And said, "Great." And I did. I actually took six 'cause I didn't wanna stop learning and luckily I ended up getting in the doctoral program, or I was satisfied with another master's degree. And so here I am in year seven now , finishing year seven.

Susan Lambert:

Congratulations. I'm gonna do a step back a little bit. you said, "There was a moment or a light bulb moment, something sort of triggered for me." Do you remember that particular moment the light bulb went off for you?

Karen Betz:

Yeah. I was actually at Marion and I was teaching a grad course and I assigned them the Essentials Kilpatrick book. And I was reading, and I learned about orthographic mapping for the first time. And I remember calling Dr. Jamie Piedler and saying, "Oh my gosh, have you heard of David Kilpatrick?" Which is hysterical if you know Jamie. She very much knew about David Kilpatrick and orthographic mapping, but she was so kind and she didn't laugh at me, and she said, "Yes." And so we discussed it and that was the light bulb moment for me to understand truly what we were talking about when we talked about phonics and that connection and how the brain learns to read. And I'd say another light bulb moment was being introduced to the simple view of Reading. That, for me, helped me connect what I thought was good practice. I mean, man, I could teach a reading comprehension strategy like no other < laugh>. But understanding that, yeah, that's a very, very small piece of the puzzle there too. So lots of moments like that throughout.

Susan Lambert:

That's an amazing story. I mean, I think, you know, for our listeners that have been listening for a long time, we've done a lot of work around the Simple View of Reading. We've done some work around orthographic mapping, but just like internalizing those foundational concepts and then seeing them come to life over and over again, right? It's just really, really important to have that sort of foundational knowledge. So good for you and congratulations also. Thanks for being vulnerable and transparent, because for many of us, it's very hard, right?

Karen Betz:

Yes.

Susan Lambert:

But I think for people in the journey, particularly when we're talking about higher ed, people in the journey need to feel safe being vulnerable. Alright, so there's a lot of conversation about this whole higher ed movement teacher education sort of as the key lever in supporting students' literacy development. Give us a little context around why this is such a hot topic now.

Karen Betz:

Yeah. Well, I'm glad it's a hot topic. We focus so much on in-service teachers and schools and student outcomes, and I think we fail to remember that those in-service teachers were once pre-service teachers. And then we need to be thinking backwards to say, "and who is teaching those pre-service teachers and what is their knowledge?" I think I am a unicorn in a way to have had 22 years of experience in schools before going into higher ed. My experience is that, you know, we have relatively five to six maybe if we're lucky, 10 years of experience before people go into higher ed, because higher ed wasn't ever my end goal, I think that it's unusual. I do think it's an advantage, but I think we have what I see , have been left to do and kind of work in silos and hang on to theories and beliefs that we obviously have brought to the profession. And that then trickles down to the pre-service teachers. Then that trickles down to this, you know, them becoming in-service teachers. And then the problem ends up lying on the admin and they have to provide professional development and they have to provide experiences and curriculum that tries to fill in those gaps. And that's a lot to take on because when you're an in-service teacher, you have, you know, 20, 25 students staring at you and they think that you're prepared and ready to go. And the reality is, many of our pre-service teachers are entering the classroom not prepared, and they don't know that they're not prepared.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. Yeah. It's a real issue. I think there is a conversation when the Science of Reading movement just, you know, started gaining momentum about how frustrating it was for teachers or people that were coaches to say, "I spent all of this money on an undergraduate degree, some of them on master's degrees to be coaches--and nobody ever told me about the Science of Reading." We didn't call it that then, but "nobody taught me about the Simple View of Reading or what orthographic mapping is or how students learn how to read." And so, yeah, I mean, people are frustrated with that. That's why we're looking at higher ed now.

Karen Betz:

Yeah. And, and they should be frustrated. And I'm of the mind that you need to tell your universities that you are frustrated. And I try to sometimes think about what's going to move the needle here. And , I'm sure we'll get into talking about state legislation, but honestly a lot of it is, when I was a classroom teacher, I wasn't thinking about the university anymore. Maybe I'd have a, you know, a student teacher here or there. But I think what needs to happen is a partnership. The schools need to be communicating with the universities and telling them what they need. And the universities need to be working with schools to find out what is needed. And I think sometimes higher ed faculty kind of get into that position and they send students out to schools, but they don't enter schools themselves. And so I purposely make a habit of, number one, going into the schools when my students are there because I want to see what they're seeing, and then I wanna coach them on the spot. And then that leads to me ending up giving professional development and support to the coaches and admin that are in the schools. And then that's where you have this beautiful partnership, and then guess what? They want Marian University students because of that.

Susan Lambert:

Right. Right.

Karen Betz:

And so I think it goes two ways. You know, we need to solidify partnerships and we need to work together. And I think that's going to make a big impact.

Susan Lambert:

Do you see , and we will jump into some state legislation, particularly in Indiana, but do you see a difference between when you first started in higher ed and what's happening now in terms of that partnership or relationship? Or even maybe in terms of districts and schools better understanding the concept of the Science of Reading? Do you see changes?

Karen Betz:

Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of movement now. I think in the state of Indiana, I'm seeing movement. It's hard to piece out, you know, before the legislation and after. I mean, I'll say this, I struggled once I knew better, Finding schools that would be giving my pre-service teachers the experience that I thought that they needed.

Susan Lambert:

Mm-hmm < affirmative > .

Karen Betz:

So, I needed to find schools that were using curriculum that were aligned and that had knowledgeable mentor teachers. Because before that I was sending them into schools that weren't doing that, and it was almost me preaching in the classroom about what good teaching looks like and sounds like. And then them coming back and saying, "well, I'm seeing the opposite of that." And so about four years ago I said, I can't do this anymore because my fear continued to be, I can say and demonstrate and show what is best practice, but are they gonna be swallowed up when they graduate into, you know, the balanced literacy world? That was my biggest fear. And they would come to me and say, "What am I supposed to do if I go into a school and it's balanced literacy, I'm a new teacher. What am I really supposed to say? And how will I, how will I be perceived if I speak up and say something different?" And I can relate to that.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. That's interesting.

Karen Betz:

So I decided that I would find one school, and I did. And I found a very small private school about five minutes in downtown Indianapolis. And I went there and I just, I mean, they put me on the staff roster, <laugh>, that's how much I was there, <laugh>. And they gave me a title, which was really cool.

Susan Lambert:

Wow.

Karen Betz:

But I worked with the staff and I stayed there with my students, you know, all day Tuesday and , we made really good gains. So that's what I did.

Susan Lambert:

That's a great story. You know, I don't know if there's research to back this, so I'm just gonna caveat that, but I heard one time that with your student teaching placement, it is most likely you are going to become the teacher that you were placed with as opposed to the things that you actually learned in your university coursework.

Karen Betz:

Absolutely.

Susan Lambert:

And so I could see why that was just really important for you. But that took dedication and a lot of work for you to be able to find that right context.

Karen Betz:

It did. And, you know, somewhere close that my students could travel to and get a good experience from. And really, it hinged on who was sitting behind the driver's seat. I mean, the principal was all in, the coach was all in--and I hate to say, but I've, I've stolen both the principal and the coach and they are now working at Marian University. That's how <laugh>...

Susan Lambert:

I don't know what, if I should be like congratulations or I don't know, but that's cool.

Karen Betz:

I know. Yeah. So those kind of partnerships are vital for sure.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah, that's a great point about that partnership. Let's make a pivot a little bit and talk about states intervening with legislation around teacher education. What's happening around that in terms of legislation for teacher development?

Karen Betz:

Yeah. So, the Reading League Compass has a great resource on their page called, Policymakers and State Education Agencies, and it's an interactive map. And so you can filter, so when I filter how many states have legislation in the Science of Reading, it's 40 out of 50. Out of those 40, 30 of them have legislation pertaining to higher education or educator preparation programs.

Susan Lambert:

Wow.

Karen Betz:

Yeah. I mean, I'm encouraged by that. And you know, there's been some trailblazers, you know, Mississippi, In terms of what they're doing in schools. Colorado. Indiana was , you know, nobody likes a mandate <laugh> , um...

Susan Lambert:

Me either. <laugh>,

Karen Betz:

You know, nobody likes to be told what to do. <laugh> . So starting with that premise, I would say that legislation passed in May of 2023. I, you know, was able to stand next to the governor as he signed it just to make sure that this was going to happen, 'cause I was thrilled.

Susan Lambert:

I remember that picture. Yes. I remember seeing that picture <laugh>.

Karen Betz:

And , you know, it was wonderful. And it's wonderful for those people who feel like they're in a good position, that their courses are aligned already, that they have things in place. It's really scary for an EPP or educator preparation program when you're not. And so I will say, you know, for us, we were expected to have all of our syllabi aligned and those were turned in at a certain date. Many of us have already gone through the auditing process--you know, a team of people come in, they interview the students, they go out into schools, they interview the professors. And that's intimidating for a lot of people. And you know, what I've learned about higher ed, which is completely different from my experience in K-12 schools, is we're not really collaborative <laugh> . And definitely not collaborative among EPP programs.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm.

Karen Betz:

So, I have no idea what, you know, Butler, which is down the street, is doing. But what happened is we had the Lilly Foundation , the Lilly Endowment, they provided us the opportunity to apply for grants. And so we could apply for two different grants, a planning and an implementation. And most of us in the state of Indiana, if not all, did that, and then that brought us together. Because I started getting emails, "What are you doing in your planning grant?" "I'll share with you exactly what we're gonna do." You know? "What are you gonna do with your implema...? We started talking and then we decided--actually the Reading League Indiana is the one that got this together--they started reaching out to universities and we started to meet once a month, and talked about what we were going to do and that that was important. And we still meet and talk about the things that are working and not working. So in my mind, even though it was scary for some, and there was a lot of pushback, we started to come out of our shells and start to communicate. And, you know, when anybody ever reaches out and says, "can I see your syllabi?" "Yes!" I think so many of us in higher ed say, "this is my course." Well, it's not your course. It's the university's and you are working for the university in order to develop something really strong and effective. But if I can share, and a lot of universities have this mentality, if we can share what we're doing and it benefits somebody else, then great. Because we're not working against each other. We're not in competition. We're all trying to ensure that all pre-service teachers, when they leave the university or the program, that they're prepared. And it ultimately always is gonna come down to the children. And we can never lose sight of that. It's about the kids.

Susan Lambert:

Such a great point. And you know, it's really interesting 'cause we talk a lot about the Reading League and the work that the Reading League is doing. We had Carrie Cordo on to talk a little bit about the Compass, right? So we will link listeners in the show notes to that resource. I think we often think about them as professional development for teachers, right? And being a support for teachers and understanding how to grow. But knowing that they're also instrumental in bringing together higher ed for the benefit then of teachers down the line, that's, that's really cool. It's really fun to hear that colleges of education, particularly in Indiana, are making some changes. Have you seen other support groups working to help support higher ed in terms of changes within their programs?

Karen Betz:

Yes, which is also exciting 'cause there's so much professional development for teachers, but not so much for us, right? And we require a little bit of a different professional development. The literacy architects had reached out to me and asked if I would design a course for higher ed. And so I did that and it's a six-week course. We meet once a week during those six weeks, and I give them lots of articles related to what the topic will be, you know--here's some objectives you can just take and put in your courses; here are some tools that might be supportive of that, and that's been really fun to meet with other professors across the country. And I learned so much from what they're doing. So it's as much of a community of practice for them as it is for me. And so that runs every semester in the summer, in the fall, in the spring. But you know, there's other opportunities such as when you go to the Reading League or Plain Talk or IDA, oftentimes the day before there's a convening of higher ed and through the STARS, through what Dr. Stephanie Stoller does. And she has done amazing job bringing those people together and being able to share what we're doing. STARS. So, Stephanie Stoller. Do you know what that acronym stands for? Stronger Together Alliance. And then she's gonna be so upset with me because I can't remember. Yeah. Stronger Together. Just say that STARS and your listeners can find that at the Center for Reading Science. So readingscience.org. There is a link in there under higher ed to join. Webinars and all kind of stuff.

Susan Lambert:

We'll link listeners in the show notes to that. So , Stronger Together, the Alliance for Reading Science and Higher Education.

Karen Betz:

Thank you. You saved me, <laugh> .

Susan Lambert:

So all of this actually, is a result of some of the work that you did through your dissertation. And you specifically took interest in this topic. Can you talk a little bit about maybe why, but give us a little detail about what you did?

Karen Betz:

Yeah, I think that , well I knew going into the dissertation that I wanted to do something that was meaningful and usable, especially in the context of what's happening with legislation and EPPs having to really analyze their courses and make changes. Dr. Amy Murdoch had worked with the state of Ohio and they wanted, in Ohio, for her to, you know, list out some possible topics that they should be looking for in a course.

Susan Lambert:

Okay.

Karen Betz:

And so there were lots of topics. And then those became objectives. And so it's the course alignment planning tool. And so, the tool was developed , authors, Stephanie Stoller, Beth Corbo and Amy Murdoch put this together as a way for professors to look at their courses , see if the content, the readings, the lectures, the assignments, the evaluations, the field work experiences aligned, and how they aligned to those objectives.

Susan Lambert:

Okay.

Karen Betz:

And, you know, you could also then look at what depth are those objectives covered? Are they, you know, covered deeply, reviewed, introduced? And so, of course I didn't really think about that tool, but Dr. Stoller was my chair and I just said, "I wanna do something related to higher ed." And they came up with this idea for me to take that existing tool and put it through two phases. So the first phase is, I sent the tool out to experts, you know, Louisa Moats, Anita Archer, and they looked at that and they were really answering a question: How aligned is this objective to the research? And really all of them were aligned. So it was probably a really poor question in hindsight. But what they did was they said, "Yeah, but you need to add this or reword this objective this way." And it ended up being so much wonderful rich feedback that I think, you know, it was 72 objectives at first, and after I took all the feedback, I mean, I probably was at 95.

Susan Lambert:

Wow. <laugh>.

Karen Betz:

And they said , uh little too many.

Susan Lambert:

Too much, you know. <laugh>.

Karen Betz:

So we paired it down, but we got a real good tool. And then the second phase was, we targeted some faculty across the country that would be willing to use it. Okay? So I gave them two course syllabi that were already created, and I said, "I want you to use the tool." I wanted to understand the usability of that tool and the reliability. Well, the reliability was difficult to measure because when you're just looking at a piece of paper, and even though the syllabus was pretty extensive and robust, it's really hard to tell. And so what they did tell me through a usability survey was, this is an excellent tool, but it's going to hinge on the robustness of the syllabus. And it's also going to matter if the faculty that are analyzing and using the tool, if they understand all these objectives.

Susan Lambert:

Right. Right.

Karen Betz:

And when I thought about that, I thought, let me look at this tool again, because seven years ago when I first started, I would not have known how to address half of these objectives. So I think what it does is it tells a professor when they look at it, "man, I have to put something in about semantics and pragmatics, but I have no idea what that is. Let me find out what that is, because obviously it's important." And so it almost becomes a tool for them to understand what is needed that they may not have even known about. And also to look at, "how am I meeting that objective in various ways and in at various steps of understanding."

Susan Lambert:

Wow. So, it serves a little bit as a self-evaluation reflective tool whereby a professor can say, "oh no, I really need some professional development myself in this particular area."

Karen Betz:

Yeah, I think so. And I think that , you know, the intent is that teams of people within the department are looking at this and using the tool, you know, not used for evaluation, used for, like you said, analyzing what is here and how can we improve on it.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm. Did you use the tool at Marion University and how did you use it?

Karen Betz:

I did. I did. I used the tool on our three undergraduate courses and you know, NCTQ comes knocking every once in a while wanting syllabi, and at that time we had been rated as a B, and I said to my dean, I think we can get an A+. I think these are really good now.

Susan Lambert:

Before you go on, who is NCTQ and what do they do?

Karen Betz:

Yes, so the National Center for Teacher Quality. And they just look at the course syllabus. And they have a rubric, a robust rubric, and they look at different things on there and then they provide you feedback.

Susan Lambert:

Okay. And then they rate this Colleges of Education.

Karen Betz:

Yes.

Susan Lambert:

Okay.

Karen Betz:

They do give you a letter grade and you can find that on their website, National Center for Teacher Quality. It's very interesting to see, you know, how your state fairs and how different universities fair. And it came back in an A+, which was exciting. But it also really, more so than that, it came back to say, "these are some things that you're missing." And even though we got an A+, there's still things that we need to improve on and always will. So that was helpful and I continue to revise that.

Susan Lambert:

What about the tool being used more broadly?

Karen Betz:

Yeah, so what I did is I took the tool and I created the Master's of Reading Science program for Marian, which launched in May '24. And I used the tool, every single objective on that tool, which I think are now 78 , are found multiple times across that program. But for me it was essential, like if I didn't have that tool, I'm not quite sure I would be able to create something that was something that I was really proud of. So yeah, it can be used to create, analyze, you know, both ends of the spectrum there.

Susan Lambert:

Is there a way that we can link the tool in our show notes? So, anybody that's interested, I know some of our listeners are in higher ed and so if they want to sort of grab that and use that to do a review of what they're working on, we'd love to include that.

Karen Betz:

Absolutely. Yes. Thank you.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah, no, absolutely. So for our listeners, what are some key takeaways from this experience that you could share?

Karen Betz:

I'd say some key takeaways would be, let's be more transparent, let's start asking questions of our EPPs. When you are trying to select a program, if you're interested in becoming a teacher, maybe you have a daughter or a son or a granddaughter or a grandson that's interested, start asking some questions about how they teach literacy. That's important. You know, once the legislation happened in Indiana, we got quite a few questions from incoming students about it and I was really appreciative of that.

Susan Lambert:

That's great. Yeah.

Karen Betz:

Yeah. I think, you know, we know that so many of us didn't get that, that I think that's important. And just, you know, understanding that we may need to put a little pressure from the school side up to the EPPs. You know, unfortunately it's taken legislation and I don't think that's a bad thing because in order to get some movement, we need to have some people invested in understanding what the issue is. And for me, I feel like we've got to stop the bleeding in higher education, in order to really make gains.

Susan Lambert:

When you think about the listeners that are out there that are currently in schools, in classrooms, is there any way they can be helpful in the effort to improve higher ed?

Karen Betz:

The in-service teachers?

Susan Lambert:

Yeah.

Karen Betz:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think everybody loves the institution that they graduated from, you know? Think about what you can do to give back. I'm always asking for, you know, people that are currently in the field to come in and talk about their experience. You know, panels of teachers that come and talk to pre-service teachers. They really want that connection and want that understanding and they want the transparency about what is it like, you know, my professor is sitting here telling me how to teach reading, but what is it really like to teach it. And giving our pre-service teachers a lot of opportunity to practice with real students, under the guidance of course, of a mentor teacher or their instructor.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm. Yeah. Very interesting. This has all been very fascinating, <laugh> , thank you for the work that you're doing in higher ed.

Karen Betz:

You're welcome.

Susan Lambert:

I wonder if you have any final thoughts or advice or anything for our listeners since we have you on and you have a platform in an audience. What would you like to share?

Karen Betz:

I think I'd like to share that even though you might be sitting in a position like I was where you were just unsure of yourself or you just didn't have the knowledge, there's so much out there now. You know, I think with COVID, there's now an abundance of webinars, podcasts, like yours, just opportunities to learn from others. So don't be afraid to say, "I don't know." I think people respect that, that you say, "I just don't know, and how can you help me learn more?" And you know, if you are in higher ed or you're a principal who's finding that changes need to happen because you're the one interviewing and you can see kind of what's coming out of EPPs, take it upon yourself to reach out to them and offer support. Not critique, but offer support and "how could we help each other gain the knowledge that we need to support the students?" You know, two-thirds of students not reading on grade level is not okay. And so we're failing kids and it's not their fault. It's not their fault. It's an adult problem. So let's try to correct that.

Susan Lambert:

I love that advice to reach out and work together, both higher ed working together at schools and teachers then in the classroom going back to work with higher ed to support the greater good. So thanks for that great advice. It was lovely having you on. Karen, thank you so much for joining us, sharing a little bit about Marian University, and we'll be sure to link our listeners in the show notes to all of the resources.

Karen Betz:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Susan Lambert:

That was Dr. Karen Betts, assistant professor of literacy and coordinator of reading science programs for Klipsch Educators College at Marian University. You can find out more information about Marian's Master's in Reading Science program, which is a hundred percent online in the show notes. There you'll also find a link to download the Course Alignment Planning tool, as well as plenty of other resources we discussed. Next time on the show. Are you interested in learning more about effectively building students' knowledge? If so, you'll love our conversation with Dr. Jackie Relyea from North Carolina State University.

Jackie Relyea:

There is just so much research showing that the students' comprehension depends on what they already know and experiences students already have.

Susan Lambert:

That's next time. Please subscribe to Science of Reading: The Podcast and remember to leave us a rating and review. We'd really appreciate that. And if you've got a literacy question that you'd like to see addressed on an upcoming episode, please go to amplify.com/sormailbag. Science of Reading: The Podcast is brought to you by Amplify. I'm Susan Lambert. Thank you so much for listening.