Science of Reading: The Podcast

Translating research into action, with Amie Burkholder

• Amplify Education

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In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, literacy coach (and podcast host in her own right) Amie Burkholder joins us to discuss her new book, Literacy Unlocked: How to Implement the Science of Reading With Young Learners. Amie talks through the origins of the book, how she structured it to be really actionable for educators, and what she hopes educators will take away from it. Amie and Susan also discuss some of the biggest recent changes to the Science of Reading movement, the areas Amie most often sees educators struggle when making the switch to research-based literacy instruction, and some tips educators can implement today—including a walkthrough of a classroom activity targeting phonemic awareness. 

Show notes:


Quotes: 

“Look to those that you trust to guide you.” —Amie Burkholder 

“If you try to change everything you're doing, you're not going to do anything well. Pick one area of your literacy block you’re really gonna nail. Once you nail that—add another one.” —Amie Burkholder

“I want [the book] to follow the research, but I want it to be simple enough for teachers to execute, [and] also engaging enough for kids to want to do it.” —Amie Burkholder 

Episode timestamps*
02:00 Introduction: Who is Amie Burkholder?
07:00 Literacy Unlocked: How to Implement the Science of Reading with Young Learners
11:00 Book Structure
12:00 Phonemic awareness classroom activity walkthrough
16:00 Learning while writing the book
17:00 Strategy for getting the most out of conferences
18:00 Favorite conferences
19:00 Biggest changes to the science of reading movement
20:00 Recommendation for people diving into the research for the first time
22:00 Implementation: Biggest struggle for teaching making the shift
24:00 Ideal takeaway from the book
25:00 Closing thoughts
*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute


[00:00:00] Amie Burkholder: When it comes to phonemic awareness, we know that those higher levels of phonemic awareness are actually where we need to focus with our kiddos.

[00:00:12] Susan Lambert: This is Susan Lambert, and welcome to Science of Reading: The Podcast from Amplify. Today I'm joined by the author of another wonderful new book, this one titled, Literacy Unlocked: How to Implement the Science of Reading with Young Learners. Amie Burkholder is a literacy coach and national speaker, and her new book is full of ideas for educators to put into practice.

[00:00:38] Susan Lambert: On this episode, we'll pay particular attention to her chapter on phonics and unpack one of the specific activities she recommends. She'll also offer some realistic advice on implementation and more. Without further ado, let's bring on Amie Burkholder.

[00:00:59] Susan Lambert: Well, Amie, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today.

[00:01:02] Amie Burkholder: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:04] Susan Lambert: I would love if you could tell our listeners just a little bit about your path into education or path into teaching and some of your early teaching experience, 'cause I think it's gonna form a really good foundation for what we're going to talk about later.

[00:01:18] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, for sure. So I started my education in first grade as a teacher and I remember, and I always tell this story, they just kind of handed me like the old clunky basals and there were like eight of them and they were like, here you go. Like here's your reading material. And I just remember looking at those and feeling like I was ready to be a teacher and I knew everything that I needed to know. And then I just remember that moment of getting those and thinking maybe I don't really know what I'm doing. And then it got even worse when I got in front of my little babies at my small-group table and I thought, "Oh my gosh, I'm responsible for teaching them how to read and I don't know how to do it."

[00:02:00] Amie Burkholder: And so that was kind of my, "Okay, I have to do something about this moment." And I went back to school to become a reading specialist, and I didn't wanna become a reading specialist. I just wanted to be able to support the kiddos in my classroom. And so with that just came this love for reading and I did Title I for a little while.

[00:02:21] Amie Burkholder: I then moved into a literacy coaching role, which was interesting because adults are very different than children. And then, you know, COVID hit and they took all of their literacy coaches and they said, "You are teaching in the classroom now." So I had the opportunity, I call that year my sabbatical because I had the opportunity to teach kindergarten.

[00:02:42] Amie Burkholder: And if you've, any teachers listening, if you've ever taught kindergarten, you know what that first year teaching kindergarten is like. And I just did not have the opportunity to go back into the classroom and support my kiddos the way I wanted to, but I was able to do that through my coaching, and we were able to make some changes.

[00:03:00] Amie Burkholder: And that's really where my Science of Reading journey started. It was being in that classroom and realizing there were things that we needed to really change, that really kind of helped me start this journey. 

[00:03:11] Susan Lambert: So during your undergrad program or when you went back for your reading specialist, could you say that you were involved in coursework that actually supported Science of Reading or no?

[00:03:21] Amie Burkholder: I would say a little of both. I did receive the, you know, how important phonemic awareness is, how important phonics is, but there was still this disconnect of how does it all come together? Like I would still, even after going through those classes, I still would have that spelling list for the week, you know? And it just didn't quite make sense to me until I really started working with kids and figuring out, something's not quite right.

[00:03:48] Amie Burkholder: You know, an example of that is in kindergarten, we got to January and my kiddos were still working on rhyming based on the curriculum because we couldn't move on, right? So they knew their letter sounds, but they didn't know what to do with them because they had not been taught blending and segmenting and those kind of things were those gaps that we had to fill in. And I'm so thankful for that year because then I could then go back to my teachers and say, "Hey, I did this. I did the program."

[00:04:13] Susan Lambert: Right. 

[00:04:13] Amie Burkholder: "Here are the gaps. Let's talk about them. Let's figure out how we can fix this." And so, it was a really good year for me to dive into that for sure. 

[00:04:21] Susan Lambert: Very interesting. So, you have a podcast. Tell us a little bit about that podcast and how the podcast came to be. 

[00:04:29] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, so, remember how I said adults aren't as interesting as kids? So when I went to be a literacy coach, they really just did not accept me. The teachers didn't accept me. It was a really hard time for me the first couple years. And I thought to myself, there have to be people out in the world that are like me. And that's kind of how I started social media. I was just like, there have to be people who I can connect with that have the same beliefs that I do.

[00:04:57] Amie Burkholder: And so that's kind of where it started. I just kind of started my Instagram to say like, "Hey, I'm here. I need friends." You know? And then what happened after that is that just kind of spiraled into a blog and spiraled into a podcast and some of the conferences that I do, but I never had any intention for it to evolve into what it is.

[00:05:15] Amie Burkholder: And now I love what I do. I love talking to teachers and working with teachers and doing the podcast.

[00:05:19] Susan Lambert: Can you tell us the name of the podcast?

[00:05:20] Amie Burkholder: Amie Burkholder 

[00:05:21] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, it's Route to Reading and it is, this is our second year, so we're coming up on, we'll come up on year three in January.

[00:05:29] Susan Lambert: Congratulations.

[00:05:30] Amie Burkholder: Thank you. I've had the opportunity to interview so many people, even you, on the podcast and it's been amazing. Yes. 

[00:05:36] Susan Lambert: You know, on aside, I always tell our listeners when I get to meet them face to face, that I learn as much from the guests on the podcast. I mean, I learn so much from them. Do you feel the same way?

[00:05:46] Amie Burkholder: I do. I do. And I've gotten braver and I've asked, you know, people that I think, "Oh my gosh, they'll tell me, no, they will not come on the podcast." And they say yes. And you get to have this intimate conversation with them, and ask them the questions that you read in their books, and you've been dying to ask them. You get to ask them in person, which is amazing. 

[00:06:04] Susan Lambert: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that speaks to this community and where we're at right now in terms of pushing forward some of these research-based practices, that people really want to share the knowledge that they have, and sometimes a podcast is the only mechanism by which they can get that information to listeners. So, that's cool. 

[00:06:23] Susan Lambert: So from there, so it started with social media, you reaching out trying to find like-minded friends. You have a blog, you have a podcast, and now you have a book too.

[00:06:35] Amie Burkholder: I do. I do.

[00:06:36] Susan Lambert: And the name of the book is Literacy Unlocked: How to Implement the Science of Reading with Young Learners. Tell us a little bit about that decision. That's a big one. 

[00:06:46] Amie Burkholder: It is a big decision, and I always joke because they had reached out, Jossey-Bass had reached out a year prior to me writing the book and had asked if I would be interested in writing a book, and I said, no. And it wasn't like, no, I don't wanna write a book. It was that I just didn't feel that I was the person to write a book. I'm not a doctor. I don't have my doctorate, you know, I'm not a researcher. I just didn't feel like I was the person to write a book to tell teachers how to teach reading. And so I said, no.

[00:07:19] Amie Burkholder: My kids were also a little smaller at the time and I was just like, I just don't know that I can do this. I don't know that it's right for me to do this. Like who am I to tell teachers how to teach reading? And then that fall, so that got the email in January, that fall I went to Big Sky Literacy Summit in Montana and it was beautiful out there. And I remember sitting in one of the rooms listening to one of the researchers speak, and by this point I'd had a lot of knowledge in early literacy, so I could decipher what they were saying, and I could understand what they were saying, but some of it was still muddy for me.

[00:07:58] Amie Burkholder: And so I would have to go back and think, okay, what were they really trying to say? How can I make this practical for my teachers? I wanna take this back, I wanna share this with my teachers. How can I make it practical for them? And as I was sitting there, I was thinking to myself, if I have the knowledge that I have, and some of this is still confusing for me, then how are some... and I started to kind of look around the room like, how are teachers feeling about this?

[00:08:23] Amie Burkholder: Are they as overwhelmed? Are they wondering the same thing? Like, this is great information, but how do I take it and make it practical in my classroom? And so I told my husband, we went out for drinks that evening and I was like, I'm gonna write a book. And he was like, what? Where did this come from?

[00:08:40] Amie Burkholder: And I am, you know, and that was the moment where I thought, I don't have to have all the researchy, you know, thoughts. I just need to be able to take that research and explain it to teachers in a way that makes sense to them. And then show them, okay, you have this research, this is what it means in teacher terms, and this is how you can apply it tomorrow in your classroom.

[00:09:02] Amie Burkholder: And so then I emailed them back and I was like, you know what? I do wanna write that book. And so that's kind of how it, came to be. 

[00:09:08] Susan Lambert: How long did it take you to actually unpack all that and write this book? 

[00:09:12] Amie Burkholder: So I started writing immediately. I was just, you know, getting all my thoughts out. I worked on my table of contents. I kind of had all that ready before I even said, "Hey, I wanna write this book." I was just like, I know what it's gonna be. I have the table of contents, I have my brainstorming notes. So, about a year. I started officially writing in about February and I was done this past December. Yeah. 

[00:09:34] Susan Lambert: Wow. And I have a physical copy in my hand, by the way. We'll link listeners, in the show notes, to the book. It's amazing. The table of contents is amazing and the way ...I'm just gonna, I'm gonna turn the page here and just like read a few of the chapters. So the chapter one, embarking on your reader's journey.

[00:09:51] Susan Lambert: You go then to phonemic awareness, the role of handwriting, building foundation of letter sound knowledge. So you actually step through all of the elements of this early reading. It's really, really amazing. And what I'd love for you to do is could you tell our listeners, like pick a chapter, maybe we talk the phonics chapter.

[00:10:10] Susan Lambert: How do you have each one of these set up? I'd love for you to talk through that because I think it's pretty powerful. 

[00:10:16] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, so every chapter starts with ... I tried to keep it under three forms of research. I would kind of talk through, "Hey, here's what it says," and I really just laid it out based on exactly what the research said. And then the chapter follows. There's just a little box and it says, "Hey, this is what this means in teacher terms. So here's all the research, and here it is broken down for you." And then it goes to practical tips. So that's the second section. So you have the research, here's some practical tips for implementing it, and then each chapter ends with lesson plans. And so there are lesson plans that show them exactly how they can implement it in their classroom tomorrow. But then they can also get onto the online hub and download those lesson plans with the resources, so that they can go and print everything they need and have it ready to go.

[00:11:08] Susan Lambert: Hmm. That's amazing. And so you include in here some actual activities that teachers can do with their students, and embedded then in another lesson plan. 

[00:11:17] Amie Burkholder: Yes. 

[00:11:17] Susan Lambert: Very cool. You wanna talk us through one of those activities that you think is pretty powerful? 

[00:11:23] Amie Burkholder: Yeah. Yeah. So I had mentioned phonemic awareness and how my kiddos were rhyming in January and couldn't put anything together. And so one activity that I love, and based on the research that we have when it comes to phonemic awareness, we know a couple things. We know that those higher levels of phonemic awareness are actually where we need to focus with our kiddos. So blending, segmenting, and isolation. And so there are, even higher levels, like addition. So you're adding sounds and you're taking away sounds, you're substituting sounds, and those are important too. But the research also tells us if you dive deep into the National Reading Panel Report, for example, it really tells us that we need to be applying it to print as soon as possible.

[00:12:09] Amie Burkholder: So while those oral activities are very helpful early on when they're trying to figure out how to put it all together, what's really important is that we support that within print. And so one of the activities that I share is called word chaining, and it is using the phonemic awareness that all of those that I just shared with you, but applying it to print.

[00:12:31] Amie Burkholder: And so, for example, I might ask my students to spell the word cat. And so when I ask them to spell the word cat, they're segmenting those sounds "c" "at," they're blending them back together. They're building that word or writing that word, and then I ask them to think deeper about the word. I say, "Let's change one sound to make the new word, bat." So in their mind they're having to substitute that "c" sound for the "b" sound, then they're having to segment, blend again. And so that's a much more powerful activity than just saying, " Okay, my word is "c at". That's my word to do it orally, but you're applying it to print. So that's one of my favorite activities.

[00:13:11] Amie Burkholder: And when I talk to teachers about lesson planning for their phonics small-groups, that's one of those things that we plug in a couple times a week because it really is just such a powerful activity. And just having that conversation of like quality over quantity that has high quality versus having, you know, five or six activities in your small-group.

[00:13:29] Amie Burkholder: Let's do word training a couple times a week because we know it's powerful. 

[00:13:33] Susan Lambert: Hmm. That's a great example. I wonder in all of the activities that you share throughout here, were there any new ones that you're like, I haven't actually done this with students before, so I don't know how this will work? Or have you done all of those activities with your students? 

[00:13:49] Amie Burkholder: Yes. So those are all like my tried and true activities, things that I have done with my students or my teachers and I have done together in a co-teaching aspect. And they're just, we know that kids love them, and one big thing for me is I want it to follow the research, but I want it to be simple enough for teachers to execute, but also engaging enough for kids to want to do it. 

[00:14:13] Susan Lambert: Mm. That's really important. That time on task, right? But the motivation to be able to do that is, is really great. So another question I have for you is, when you were writing and you know, often we use the writing process to learn deeper or go into the research more or whatever, was there something that you came across that surprised you during your course of writing this book? Was there something new that you learned? 

[00:14:40] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, so when I was really diving deep into letter sounds, letter names, like how do you teach them? That's a question that teachers ask all the time. I was surprised to find that there is research to support it, but sometimes there are these little studies that are like, maybe this doesn't work this way. And what I found was, more and more the research supported, you teach the letter name, the sound, the articulation formation altogether. But there is research out there, I think there's just not quite enough research out there yet. And so I was surprised because, you know, this is how we've always taught it. This is what works for us. And so when I started diving a little bit deeper and looking at that research, it was interesting to see that there are two sides of many of those things.

[00:15:25] Susan Lambert: Yeah. Depending on context, right? The population that they have, the activities they're doing in those. Yeah, for sure. I know that, you shared during our pre-call when you went to that Big Sky conference, you actually had a specific strategy when you went to that conference. I'd love for you to share that. Didn't you tell me that you went to a session and then you'd not go to another one?

[00:15:45] Amie Burkholder: Yeah. Yeah. So I used to go to every single session and I would come back to the hotel at the end of the night and I would say, "I don't even know what I learned because it's just all jumbled in my brain." And so what I started doing is I would look at the agenda ahead of time. I would star the ones that I absolutely have to attend.

[00:16:05] Amie Burkholder: And I would try to stagger them to where I would attend a session and then I would take a break and just really brain dump. What did I learn? How can I make this practical in my classroom? And what are some activities that I can do right away? So kind of like the book, right? Like kind of how I laid out the book.

[00:16:21] Amie Burkholder: I would just take that time because again, we have this quality over quantity mentality, and I would rather go to really good, quality sessions. And the hard part is picking, because you go to, like the Reading League Conference, they're all quality for sure. But just picking those and then really sitting with yourself and thinking, how can I implement this so that you don't walk away feeling overwhelmed, you walk away feeling like you have some practical tips to use in your classroom.

[00:16:45] Susan Lambert: It sounds like, good learning science strategies right there in terms of what you need to do to sort of make it your own. What are some of your favorite conferences? You said Big Sky and the Reading League. 

[00:16:56] Amie Burkholder: Yes, the Reading League is my absolute favorite. I  love all of those. The California Kindergarten Conference out in San Jose. That's another hidden gem conference if you're out on the West Coast. That is a very special conference. They have wonderful presenters. I love that one. And then I'm part of Unlocking Soar, which is a virtual online conference that we host a couple times a year, and we have a lot of wonderful presenters there too.

[00:17:25] Susan Lambert: Hmm. That's so fun. What kinda changes have you seen from when you first sort of reached out to people to say, "Where is my tribe? Who can help me with this?" To now? What kind of changes have you seen in this Science of Reading momentum? 

[00:17:39] Amie Burkholder: So I think when, you know, back when I really started, there was a lot of noise around the Science of Reading, and I think there still is, but what I've noticed is it's kind of been silenced a little bit in the sense that you have, for me anyway, I have my go-to people, the people that I know, really know the research. And so I feel like my group has gotten really wide and then I still have this little pocket of people that I feel like, you know, like you said, this community is wonderful because we can trust each other. We work together and we are all, that's what's so interesting about teachers to me, is we're all in it for kids, and we're all in it for the teachers and so, to answer your question, I feel like there's so much noise out there, but I feel like I've finally found kind of my group of people that I feel like I can lean on and trust and we support each other, which is pretty amazing, 'cause we're all over the world. We're not local, you know? 

[00:18:36] Susan Lambert: Yeah. For sure. And what about for other folks? What recommendations do you have for them as they're trying to dive into the research or better understand what the research says, 'cause that's like, where in the world do you start? Right? Do you have advice for folks to start someplace? 

[00:18:52] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, so I know that there are different courses that they can take, and really just looking to those that you trust to kind of guide you, making sure that you are reading the right books and that you are, you know, start with the National Reading Panel Report.

[00:19:09] Amie Burkholder: It's like 400 and some pages. But there's some really good nuggets in there and things that you can kind of take away. Just start small. I think sometimes, and I have these conversations with my teachers all the time, if you try to change everything that you're doing, you're not going to do anything well.

[00:19:26] Amie Burkholder: And so in my new role, I was actually talking with Jake Daggett. I'm not sure if you know who he is, but he is one of my good friends. And, I was actually talking to him about my new role and we were talking about, you know, what are we going to tackle? And he says to me, he says, "Amy, if you're gonna tackle small-group, tackle small-group. You know, don't worry about the worksheet that they're using that might not align." And that really spoke to me because I am that person that wants to walk in and just like help with everything. And so for teachers, I would say the same thing. Pick one area of your literacy block that you're really gonna nail.

[00:20:03] Amie Burkholder: And once you nail that one, add another one. Even as small as in your small-group, if you are being asked to use level text and that just doesn't feel right to you, start there. Use decodables. Do your, small-group lesson the way you've always done it, maybe just add a decodable. Now, add in that word chaining activity. And before you know it, you're gonna have a good, solid plan that you built yourself in a way that was comfortable.

[00:20:28] Susan Lambert: Hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Trying to change everything all at once is never, never quite good because then you feel like you're not doing anything well. So that's really good advice. What do you think it is that teachers struggle with most when they're trying to make a shift to more evidence-based practices? 

[00:20:46] Amie Burkholder: Well, I believe that teachers always want what's best for their students. I truly believe, like, let's face it, we are not in education for the money, we are in education because we love kids and we love teaching. And so I think sometimes even for me, I always tell teachers the one thing I had a really hard time letting go of like we're the sight words, like I that stack of sight words. That was the one thing. And it wasn't that I didn't believe that there was a better way, like that research was right there, we don't learn words as whole units. But for me it was, but how do I do it? Like how do I implement this new thing? And it was scary to me. And so that was one of the last things that I let go of because I just wasn't sure how to implement it.

[00:21:31] Amie Burkholder: It wasn't that I didn't wanna do it, it was just that implementation piece. And I really think that's what teachers struggle with because the reality is, as a classroom teacher, you teach reading, but you teach math and science and social studies. And social skills and all of the other things.

[00:21:47] Amie Burkholder: And so, it's a lot on teachers to just say, okay, laser focus, because we can't laser focus. I mean, half the time we can't remember to turn in our attendance, you know, because it's just so much going on. So I think that implementation piece is hard when you have so many other things that you have to do.

[00:22:04] Susan Lambert: Yeah. That brings me back to your book where you provide activities and plans for every single piece of research that you built into that, you know, teaching kids how to learn to read. So it is clear that you understand that sometimes it's hard to implement something if you can't see the thing that you're trying to implement.

[00:22:24] Susan Lambert: Back to this book a little bit, what do you really hope that folks take away from this book? 

[00:22:30] Amie Burkholder: So, when I wrote the book. I, in my mind, could see this ... I can show you, I've got them right here. People can't see, but I have little nuggets for my teachers, and what I'm holding is just a ring with dictation helpers.

[00:22:43] Amie Burkholder: And so all of my teachers have these resources right at their fingertips. So when they're teaching small-group, they have everything that they need. That's really what I hoped the book would be too, is this resource that if teachers were getting ready to teach letter formation, they could pull it out and say, "okay, what do I need to know?"

[00:23:00] Amie Burkholder: If they're setting up their classroom and they're looking at visuals, "oh, I remember there was something on making sure that we have the right picture representation for those letters," and just read through it. But then also have it as a resource, as a quick reference in your classroom and use it every single day.

[00:23:16] Susan Lambert: So almost if you wanted to make that one change, you could pick up this book, decide what that one change is, and really dive into that particular area using a chapter. 

[00:23:26] Amie Burkholder: Absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:23:28] Susan Lambert: I'm just wondering if you have any closing thoughts at all for the listeners in terms of teaching the young kids how to learn to read?

[00:23:36] Amie Burkholder: Yeah, so I would just say that again as teachers, we are teachers for a reason, and sometimes with all the other things that we have going on, whether it be all the other subjects we have to teach or those behaviors in our classroom or admin who won't get on board. You know, I hear that often too. It's like, "I know what to do, but I have to do this program."

[00:24:00] Amie Burkholder: And just to remember why you started, like what is your why? Why are you an educator? And if you remember one word, just remember that word joy, because when you look at our youngest learners, they come through our doors joyful and excited to learn. And as teachers, I think especially K2 teachers, you really don't know the impact that you have on kids.

[00:24:24] Amie Burkholder: You really don't know because you' re working and you're seeing all the growth, seeing all the growth, but it really pays off when they're able to pick up that book that they wanna read, that chapter book that they've been so excited to read. It's like, that's you, you did that. And so we can't lose sight of that.

[00:24:39] Susan Lambert: Hmm, that's a great reminder that teaching reading takes explicit instruction and it's those K and one and two teachers that actually make that come to life for students. So thank you for that. Well, listeners, if you haven't listened to Route to Reading-- great podcast to listen to-- you can follow Amy on Instagram, so we'll make sure we have that link. And then run out, well, you don't have to run out. Get online right now and buy this book Literacy Unlocked because it's just an amazing resource and we appreciate all that you're doing to help others understand how to teach our kids how to read. So thank you very much. 

[00:25:15] Amie Burkholder: No, thank you so much.

[00:25:20] Susan Lambert: That was Amie Burkholder, literacy coach, national speaker, and author of the new book, Literacy Unlocked: How to Implement The Science of Reading with Young Learners. Remember to check out the show notes for a link to that book. We'll also have a link to follow Amie on Instagram and to her podcast, Route to Reading.

[00:25:41] Susan Lambert: Check out her August 4, 2025, episode for a chance to hear me on Amie's podcast. Next time on Science of Reading: The Podcast, we're doing something just a little different. I'll be quiet. All right. I'm having a hard time with this, hard time with this. I cannot not be in control at a podcast recording.  Yes, I'm about to be a guest on the award-winning Beyond My Years podcast.

[00:26:06] Susan Lambert: I joined host Ana Torres for a conversation all about knowledge building and developing students' academic language.

[00:26:15] Susan Lambert: When you are trying to teach a student a concept, what you need to do is you need to somehow anchor that to something they already know or start building that knowledge in small incremental ways.

[00:26:28] Susan Lambert: I also spilled some more details on our upcoming Season 10, and shared a bit more about my own journey in education.

[00:26:36] Susan Lambert: I never thought I would find myself in education. I probably would've been, you know, I wanted to be an engineer just because my dad was an engineer, right? It kind of bucked the system. I was a woman and you know, girls don't do that stuff.

[00:26:48] Susan Lambert: Susan Lambert 

[00:26:48] Susan Lambert: All of that is coming up on Beyond My Years. We'll also share that episode directly in our feed in two weeks. Science of Reading: The Podcast is brought to you by Amplify.  I'm Susan Lambert. Thank you so much for listening.