EP 219 - Time to tame the Tigers (again) and news from in and around the club

We're back from our Six Nations hiatus with a round up of news from in and around the club as well turning our attention to the relatively happy hunting gound that is Welford Road as we re-start our quest to reach the Prem summit on Sunday.

Running order:

1. Injury updates
2. Contract extensions
3. New signings
4. Big Day Out ticket sales
5. Bears Women
6. Matt Salter
7. Prem Cup campaign pluses and minuses
8. Tigers preview with a little help from BBC Leicester Tigers Rugby Show
9. Poetry goat
10. The end

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:05

You're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate, a Bristol Bears podcast made five fans, four fans, with three friends who love the club, game, and all things bears. Well, it's been a long time, lads. I think it was a month since we did our lot lot last pod, and that was our little interview with Jake Heenan that went down quite well with with punters. But obviously this time of year it's a bit difficult for club podders because there aren't any games apart from Prem Cup games, and they're not they haven't got quite the same sort of cachet as the Prem. So I don't know about you fellas, but I've I've been kind of sat at home watching a bit of the Six Nations and uh quite enjoying a little bit of a break, but we did feel that because the Prem restarts again on Sunday, we ought to get together again. And of course that was quite difficult just trying to find a common time. So we're actually recording this on a Thursday night, which is one of the latest times we've ever recorded a pod before a Prem game. So anyway, uh Miles and Lee on on Zoom uh with me. Uh you boys alright? How are you, Lee? You're looking very dapper there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

I am uh I unlike you, Pete, I've watched no rugby pretty much at all for the last three weeks. As soon as England started getting beaten in the Six Nations, I I clocked off. Uh but I do have an excuse. I mean, I am in the process of uh selling my house and uh trying to arrange all that. So uh it's it's it's been it's been very busy, mate. But very busy in non-rugby terms. So I am really looking forward to getting back into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Yeah, no, absolutely. And what about you, Miles? What have you been up to? Are you alright?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Well, uh yeah, grand. I mean, uh I uh uh weekend started, boys. I'm not working tomorrow, hence I've got a nice little cheek. Two session IPAs on the desk actually this evening. I'm going, going large. Yeah, all right. I mean, I've enjoyed the Six Nations. I haven't enjoyed watching England play, but I don't think anyone has. But yeah, no, it's been a good run of games, a little bit odd with no club rugby, um, as discussed. But yeah, we can we can dive into that a little bit uh on the pod in a while.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

Yeah, I mean we did see each other down the gate a couple of times for the Prem Cup games, and actually the last Prem Cup game against Sale was was a bit like a Prem game because both teams went full bore and it was actually quite a quite quite a good game of rugby that one, but we may come on to that a little bit later. Well, lads, let's uh let's let's crack on. I mean, I I thought what we could do tonight was maybe run through uh sort of few news items from the club, a few few things that have happened in the last few weeks, have a quick chat about the Prem Cup campaign, and then of course uh think about the game on uh Sunday afternoon at Welford Road. And actually, I was on uh Leicester Tigers rugby show last night, uh BBC Radio Leicester. I had a little five to ten minutes slot. Um with Tom Tom Vandel, uh zoomed into the studio. And yeah, um, but what I thought I'd do is yeah, what I thought we'd I'd do is when we get to that, I I've snipped out a little bit of what they thought uh was gonna be, what tigers might do on Sunday, and I thought I'd snip that out and stick it in into our pod, and then we can uh see sort of comment on what the the Leicester boys were how they were thinking about Sunday, and before we decide what our team might be and so on. So let's crack on. So I think the first thing I wanted to uh touch on was um from news from the club were injuries. It's not uh let's start with something negative, shall we? And of course, as I'm sure both of you know, and he uh and and it was widely reported that we suddenly got this this um uh we got this news update saying that Pedro Rubiolo had got this ACL out for the rest of the season, or it had been operated for an ACL. And then on the back of that, it's like two bad news buses coming at the same time. It then turned out that Joe Battley had dislocated his thumb in that Prem Cup game against Sale and was going to be out till May. And then also the other minor, it was like the third bus, but it wasn't quite as bad. Was Rich Lane did a hammy, and we saw that in that Prem Cup game, it was after the first minute, but wasn't quite as bad as they thought, so he's probably gonna be out till April. So I don't know, what do you think, boys? Lee, what were your thoughts on about that?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Uh well, my thoughts are exactly why the Prem Cup doesn't mean anything at all to me. Uh it's just it I mean, like injuries, we've had we've talked about injuries all season long, haven't we? And I mean, we were doing nothing in the in the cup anyway. It was uh it was a run out, and it's just so disappointing to get I mean we're talking like especially second row major players out for us for the retreat of well. I don't know how long for bats, but you know, Rubiolo for for the season, and oh it's just it's just not the news we we needed to hear, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 5:07

We should clarify it wasn't because he was playing in the Prem Cup, he he wasn't playing, it was it was must have been a training accident. Um Bats yes was in that game. I mean I suppose Miles the the it's risk and reward. I mean, because there aren't any games, clearly Pat did use that Prem Cup game against Sale to to give a bit of um a bit of hit out for the boys to get some running in their legs because you know, with the with a view on this game coming up at the weekend. So, you know, it's it is if you didn't play some of these big players, are they going to be fresh for Sunday? So yeah, it's always a little bit risky, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, I think so. I mean that was a fair few weeks ago, and it was a little bit like um, you know, uh you're right, a prem run out. We had our I think our fittest players, and uh you would argue first team players playing, as did Sale. Uh yeah, it's just unfortunate. I think you're right. I mean, you know, Lane has sort of kicked and then he pulled up and he's obviously pulled his hammy and and bats you could see but was holding his wrist during that game. Really unfortunate. Um it's not pretty reading. These two next two games we we really could have done with fully fit and loaded, you know, first team players, and unfortunately, it's yeah, well no, players will step up, but the engine room is gonna take a bit of a testing for sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

Yeah, I mean I suppose uh there is always another side of the coin, and the good side of the coin is the fact that it was announced that we've got a few players back from injury, and and just listing them, Stevie Stevie Lua Tua is as far as I'm aware, is fit. Jake Woolmore is fit again. Lovejoy Chawatama is fit, Noah Howard is fit, and Aidan Boschoff is fit. So, yeah, I mean it it's it's we have got some players, and I suppose the argument would be is that this is what happened at the beginning of the season, and we managed it quite well, and it's it's just a case of other players are gonna have to have to step up. So maybe that's what we'll talk about maybe a little bit when we get to chatting about the Leicester game and the the lineup. Um Lee, the other thing that came up uh news-wise, uh well, there's a few things was some some contract extensions, and I think there were one, two, three, four, five, six contract extensions were announced. Uh I'll just run through them. Jake Walmore got another got another year or two. And and as someone who's getting on a bit now, and 179 appearances, I wonder whether that's a bit of a a kind of leadership extension. Like he's a good boy around the camp. Uh, good for the young'uns. Um, Aidan Boschoff got an extension, Sam Worsley got an extension, Max Lahith got an extension, Noah Heward and Love Joy, Lovejoy Chawatama. Um, so thoughts on those extensions? Anything comes to mind?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Well, all really pleased with all of those. I think that is it's really important as well for you know players like Worsley. Um, I mean, the reward for the season that they've had. Um, and obviously you've got the old stages, like you say, Jake. Um, I mean it it's really weird because it it only feels like yesterday that that Jake Walmore came into the club. And now we're talking uh you know 179 appearances is conkers, really. Um and obviously Max Lee's all dead again to kind of study the ship. I think um yeah, for me, all these contracts are well deserved and well well earned, and you know, we're we're kind of we're not just keeping the old card, but we're actually building you know the youngsters for the future.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

I mean my only concern with the we're talking that's three props that have re-signed. I mean, is that uh all maybe getting on you know early 30s? I I mean Lemax La Heap's about 32 now, and and I think Lovejoy's getting on. Is that either the a a reflection on the fact that props tend to mature later or or that we haven't really got prem-ready younger ones coming through? Um what do you think, Miles?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah, I mean I'm I'm super excited that you know there's there's been a great deal of signings during the sort of quiet spell. Um, it's a fair point. Um we've signed some, you know, we'll come on to talk about some new signings and exciting signings that are coming through. But yeah, maybe it's just that um they need mentors, uh and the likes of Wilmore and Max Lahith, and you know, Lovejoy's been with us a few years now, have got those aged and uh and experienced heads upon them. Uh and they, you know, they they put their bodies on the line week in, week out. It's hard, it's hard to say whether we haven't got any oven-ready uh academy coming through, but uh I think those are you know that's shrewd signings to say the least.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Yeah, and I think I think um giving Sam Worsley and Aidan Boschoff extensions because to be brutally honest, they're probably still quite cheap, aren't they? But potentially could, you know, Sam Worsley is is is you know getting close to being regular Prem standard, and Boschoff has really shown he's got potential. So again, probably some people might say, you know, uh they're not very exciting, but I think they're quite shrewd because those boys could go from strength to strength, and for a couple more years, we're we're you know, we're not we're we're saving a little bit of money. I I don't want it to be all about economics, but I do think it does come into it, doesn't it? Lee, you're gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Yeah, I mean uh hit the nail on the head. I mean the balance is is you know it's got to be right in terms of the money, but also I do agree with Miles. I think these these guys, these young lads, they're they're already part of the team that Catland's trying to build for the future. So you know, these guys are already here, they know the setup, and and for me personally, I think those two, especially Worsley and um Poshoff, they that they're gonna be players that are gonna play a lot more in the first team over the next you know couple of years.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Yeah, no, I I agree, and I I saw Aidan Boshoff play, I think maybe he might even have been his debut on the second game against Saracens when we got humped by Saracens, but he he kind of looked good in a in a in a on a bad day. And and I think I might have told you this when I I after the game, I was kind of hanging around by the side of the pitch, and he came, his mum and dad and friends were kind of right next to me, and he came over and he was he was uh he was kind of pumped, you know, because he'd played most of the game because I think he came on for an injury quite early on, and he was like, Yeah, did you see me? And Owen Farrell was trying to pick a fight with me. And I was like, I stood up to it. It was just like it was brilliant listening to like a young lad. And I was thinking, mate, you know, you you you don't need to like sound like you're in awe of him. You you gave him a run for his money. So yeah, I like from that moment on, I thought that boy's got something about him, uh, and so on. But as Miles alluded to, we've obviously been away, so we've got to get a few cliches in. Um, we have had a few signings. Well, I say a few signings, we've had three as far as I can um well, maybe four, actually, and I'll come back to that. But the first signing, in no particular order, was um Ethan Stadden, uh back row well from Bath. Um, he's been described, he was described as versatile and one of the Prem's most promising young forwards who can play second and back row, uh, but obviously not quite good enough to break into the Bath team. Um, but I do think that's perhaps a little bit unfair because he did play in some of those Prem Cup games, and and I actually think again, looks like a pretty good signing. Looks like the sort of player that could do well at Bears. Um, I don't know if you boys know anything else about him uh or what you think about that signing, but Lee, you're making some noises there.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Yeah, just chatting to a couple of uh BAF supporters that I know, and and they really rate this guy. And I think that you know, he's in in all fairness, uh he's probably gonna get more opportunities at Bears. And um, you know, I I think again quite exciting. I think so.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

I I I think it is. Um talking of back rows, the other big announcement was that we'd signed Khalik Karim from Worcester Warriors, and then it also now turns out that he's already joined us uh for the rest of the season, but because he's injured, so we've got him into our our medical boys have got him in and uh uh are gonna sort him out for the start of the season, which I think is a pretty good move. And it's what they did with Pedro Rubiolo, wasn't it, when he came from Newcastle. And I think why don't we it seem sensible to rehabilitate him with our facilities, which I imagine are are better than uh Worcester's. So uh yeah, I mean I didn't really know much about him, so I'm I'm quoting from the Bears website, which of course is totally unbiased. But what is said was he is a fierce ball carrier with a hot with a high work rate. What's not to like about that? I mean, it's better saying he's a bit soft and he's a bit lazy. You wouldn't say that though, would you? But uh and he's but he's only six foot and he's 104 kg, so it's not a big unit, but he's obviously uh he's probably uh well, maybe a bit of a nasty boy, you know. He's he's he's he's a burrower. Um, and according to Pat, Pat was quoted as saying Khalik is a player with tremendous potential, he possesses outstanding physical attributes, power, athleticism, and presence, but that consistently show in his ability to dominate collisions and influence the game. I mean, mate, I'm surprised he's not played for England.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

It's really weird when Pat talks like that. I it just reminds me of you doing one of your uh parents' evening speech. Yeah, brilliant. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

And actually, I go on and said I always try and uh you know add a little bit for the parents to take away. And Pat's done the same here. He's finished off by saying what has impressed me most is his hunger to improve and his determination to take his performance to the next level, which kind of implies he's not very good at the moment and he's got he's got a long way to go. It's like you know, he's he's done really well, but you know, a bit of work to do. Main thing is he's coachable, right? Coachable, of course he is. We don't we don't sign anyone who's who's not coachable, apart from Carl Sinklin, maybe, but I don't know. Let's not go there. No, we love him. So anyway, so that's Khalit Kareem, and then one for you, Miles, particularly because it was Toby Wilson, and of course you like the name Toby, don't you? Miles, what's happened to your sound?

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Miles has disappeared.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Uh-oh. Well just make a I'll just say we're having a pause here at the moment because Miles is speaking, his lips are moving, but there's there's lots of nothing coming out. Can you hear him, Lee? Can you hear me? Oh, now we can. To be honest, it was better, it was made more sense just now.

unknown 16:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Anyway, I'm gonna have to now you've not forcing me to do ladies and tell me about the go again. What I was gonna say was let's start again. So so uhim, but but one for you, Miles, uh a name that is quite close to your heart, as of people who know you quite well, Toby Wilson, 21 from Ealing Trailfinders, and as it said on the Bears website, one of the most dangerous packs in the second tier.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

So uh yeah, I mean okay, but why haven't we signed why haven't we uh signed the most dangerous back in the second tier, I wonder?

SPEAKER_04 16:45

I know, I mean let's just say what Pat was on a roll as well, because he was obviously doing and he said uh I'll just I'll I'll I'll do the quote and then you can comment on it.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Go on, re read what Pat said in the auto cube.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

He said Toby is an exciting young player who has consistently delivered high-level performances at fullback in the championship. I mean, it goes on, this is like an essay. I've been particularly impressed by his fearless mindset and the way that he combines pace skill and game awareness. He has a real ability to influence matches, whether through his finishing, his impact in broken play, or his willingness to take the game on and create opportunities. We're delighted he's chosen to join us at the Bears. We both believe this move will provide the right environment for him to continue developing, push his game to the next level, and fulfil his potential. There is a number of triplicates in there. Like, you know, they always say with speeches, you always have three in your list. He's like got three sets of three there. Brilliant stuff. That is it's like it's like it's been written by Cicero in the Greek Parliament back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

And and and I I I love how you emphasize the superlatives as well, Pete. Do it brilliantly, mate.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Anyway, Miles, after that, after that long essay, uh anything you want to say about Toby Wilson?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

I mean, there is nothing more that anyone, anyone can possibly add about it. I mean, you're right, the superlatives, the description exquisite from Pat Lamb, I must say. I mean, yeah, how can you not be excited? I think you we've seen he's real, he's he's one of the most great performers and point scorers in the championship. Ealing, as we know, consistently finished top of the you know, top of the pile year after year, um, and you need a good fullback to do that. So, yeah, that is exciting. I guess it adds opens the door to a few questions as to maybe which fullback we may potentially be losing at the end of the season. Um and in time, I I I guess time will tell, we will find out.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Yeah, I mean, I think there's been some hints that Benjamin Elizalde may be off to France. Yeah, um, exactly. And that's probably the one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 18:53

See, well, wait a minute, my Miles was giving you the the suspense, then you've just like you've just ruined it for us.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

I thought it was a yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

It was it was it was a generic open question for listeners. We knew the answer.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

Well, the listeners are all shouting Benjamin Elizabeth. They wanted answers, they don't want like cryptic crosswords, do they? I mean, you know, here to deliver straight collision, ball carrying, break the line, none of this poncing around, kicking it for contest. Um, just one other thing, and I I tried to look this up and then I forgot about it. I had this feeling that we signed a hooker from Chiefs as well. But am I completely going mad? Someone might tell us that.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I thought that we've obviously, you know, um Sam Wolston Home is going to chief. Go the other way. You're right. I I thought we did have someone will tell us someone that's coming from Chiefs, someone will know.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Someone I think uh Deb's from K-town will probably tell us that. Um, so my one question after all these signings is is that sounds great, and there's does like joking aside, it they they we've we've got a great track record, as Pat says, in in turning kind of championship players into prem players, and and you know, we could list many of those. But my one big question is are we really expecting do we actually want one big signing as well? Uh, do we need a big signing? That's the one slight worry. Um, we haven't, you know, last year we had Tom Jordan and we had uh we had Ruby quite a signing. And yeah, well that came later, didn't it? Yeah, sure. Do you think we're gonna get a big signing? And I put on our little notes that I sent you, you know, another fly half, maybe another enforcer, or a big ball carrier. So, what do you think? Do you think we're gonna see another signing or do you think that's it for us?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Um well, it still concerns me, and it probably does you and many listeners and fans of Bristol Bears, that with you know, good old adjust AJ McGuinty, really, I suspect maybe his last season. Maybe last season we won't be seeing him, and still Tom Jordan been playing not at number 10 consistently for Scotland, that we haven't got an out and out world-class international number 10, and that still deeply concerns me, as as well as as Tom Jordan has been playing. It but but to be moved from position from club rugby to international rugby is far from ideal. I mean, they're not doing it with Finn Russell on a poor example. Uh that is my deep concern. We I'm afraid that's where I've always been looking for an out and out signing, number 10.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

And there's no disrespect to Sam Worsley, but you know, we need to, you know, he he will be a fantastic player. But I just think you know, the truism is if you're gonna win anything, you have to have quality half backs. And that's my worry. So what do you think, Lee?

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Well, I I guess I mean I do totally agree with you and Miles, but I do I do wonder if we're kind of the back in the Tom Jordan horse for next season. Um because I mean let's face it, I mean he wants to play 10 and uh his his his almost is like his versatility uh versatility has been uh gone against him almost in a lot of ways so I think I think if if we're going down that road I think we back him as our number 10 our number one you know number 10 and I think we we go with it but I there is jeopardy with it I totally agree.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Yeah I think it's uh we don't want it to turn into a kind of Yoin Lloyd thing again do we where we're never quite sure because I mean he is like a he's like an international Yoin Lloyd he has played centre for Scotland he's played fullback he's played 10 for us he's played fullback for us um but you know it's uh we'll see but I I think I wouldn't be surprised to think that in the old fanosphere out there there'll be a few people thinking yeah this is all great these three signings young lads with got potential but can we not just one biggie one biggie and of course it'll ray the whole Damian McKenzie thing will raise its head again and of course that will never happen really but it's always nice to sort of have your annual Damian McKenzie thought isn't it I think you're right but and and actually through the joy of Google I can confirm Pete who we had forgotten uh Louis Sinclair fly half from Pirates and Sol Moody Hooker from Pirates oh no it wasn't Chiefs it was Pirates we knew I was kind of halfway there I mean we've signed a lot of championship players haven't we but this is a you know they're all youngsters 23 and 21 and 21 that's who I and I think the argument is is that get them before other clubs get them I mean they are clearly the better ones and you know we've we have got a blend academy as well as coachable championship players and it as you say it's you know we can't argue that it hasn't worked quite well so far this season for us so so I think yeah fair play yeah it's it's I mean that's true but it's still a big big leap of faith you know going from relying on these youngsters to actually winning silverware and I and and you know I guess only time will tell if if that leap is too big or whether these boys are good enough to to step up that we're gonna need to them to step up straight away for next season. Okay boys well that's uh the signings and extensions and all that sort of stuff done um but let's move on to a few other news items that have come up in the last couple of weeks first off it was announced quite recently that the lower and middle tiers have now been sold out for the big day out which of course is a week on Saturday and I did a little bit of maths did a little bit of googling a bit of research and and and found out what the capacity was and essentially it means it's about 4000 tickets sold um with still yeah 10 days or so to go so miles come to you first uh you what's your thoughts on that um I mean it's encouraging I'm it if if your math is correct Pete which I never doubt it as a geography teacher I suspect we won't reach the dizzy heights of 55,000 last year because you know in a in essence is not a local derby and Quinn's fans have got to make the effort to come down from uh from London etc but yeah it's encouraging I think to Phil the lower and the upper tier we'll get will create a great environment because it will be you know surrounded by by Bristol and Holoquin's fans so not a bad shout but I guess time will tell it it's only a couple of weeks away unless people are sitting on the couple of weeks miles well you're right we're not this weekend well two weekends isn't it yeah it's it's two couple of weeks is 14 days in my book we're talking like we're Thursdays and Friday's quarters of eight days away all right two weekends it's just two weekends of rugby away it's attention to detail that's what it is and and like you know detail is everything it's like saying oh we might kick it maybe or maybe we'll play maybe we'll have a vague offensive structure why didn't we just give the date that would have been easier wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah 28th Saturday the 28th of March you know Sunday the 28th what are you talking about you'll have missed it if you get on the Sunday it's Saturday you're you're going to meet are going holiday on holiday the next day my thoughts are on that i'm I'm super excited it'll be you know hopefully a great day out again a little bit colder time of the year of course but you know not if it was today it was 18 degrees today wasn't it I think 4000 fans can certainly make a bit of noise I I'd be disappointed if the roof was shut but that seems that seems a given now sadly with a Millennium Stadium and a principality sorry um as for the Six Nations and it's yeah it's just a great shame I mean I think 40,000 is still a lot of people when you think that you know let's not get into the debate about the whys and wherefores because it's it's happening but 26000 is the capacity at Ashton Gate which we only ever get with a bath game so we're likely to get that this season at the with the bath game hopefully at the end of the season.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

40,000 is a is a is a good old number um and and actually as we did ask Tom Taton directly at the beginning of the season that did they make money out of it and he he categorically said they did and that was that's got to be part of it as well so I think I think they've done pretty well to get get up to 4000 um and uh there'll be a lot of people with blue light cards there. Me included yeah me included as well I didn't need it because I was a season ticket holder but uh yeah so I I'm I'm looking forward to it as well it's uh it's going to be a big day but we'll hopefully uh we'll be perhaps previewing that uh next week um before we go to it so second thing I wanted to talk about was Bears Women I I've we haven't really talked much about them this season and partly because it hasn't quite fitted into what we've been doing and partly because they haven't they they've not had a very good good season at all and I don't want to like make us sound like sort of glory hunters that we were only interested when they were winning we're not but it it has been a bit of a a difficult season but transitional transitional with new new coaches it the red probably a hangover from the red from the World Cup you know new players getting injured we had quite a lot of injuries but um the last I think that I don't know in what particular order it was but the last four games since they came back to start again there was a 26 all draw with Ealing um they lost 3633 to Sarys which is no bad result to be fair um they beat Loughborough 2421 come came back in the second half and then uh they humped tigers 68 nil uh um last weekend so you know the girls I think I think I looked at the table I thought is there any chance they could make playoffs from there I don't think there is at all so so I think they're probably transitional and then come back strong next year and I think it it does look like the women's PWR does need some more competition. It looks like Hartbury are uh pretty much sort of running away with it and it that's not necessarily a good thing they they do need a bit more competition Saris are doing all right but really it's everyone else isn't it below that and sale and exeter are quite good so we'll see but anyway up the girls and uh obviously double header at Cardiff so uh big game for for them and and then the final kind of bit of news which obviously um it's been well reported it's very very sad news was the um passing of Matt Salter obviously previous captain of Bears and um you know captain for four years from 2004 when Bristol were at the mem um in that kind of that that you know big era um and what I I mean what I would say like a proper proper rugby player a blind side flanker no nonsense leader on the pitch clearly by the sounds of it leader off the pitch afterwards he was director of rugby at Clifton College but also head coach at Clifton Rugby I mean a terribly sort of shocking bit of news only 49 um lots of fantastic memorials to him but it it I I I don't know about you boys but I mean that was really the early 2000s was when I I kind of went up to the mem quite a lot with uh with my missus before we had kids and you know used to go and watch Bristol a lot up the mem on a Sunday and you know that was my sort of time of first starting to watch Bristol having come to Bristol in in sort of the year 2000 to do my teacher training and I you know I still remember those days fondly and he was you know a big part of that um so it is is terribly sad.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

I don't know if you boys have got any extra thoughts to yeah I just want to I mean you've just spoken about the yeah Matt sort of the you know the professional sportsman the Bristol legend but really what we what we're not saying what we're not getting through is the the human being uh a really genuinely lovely guy that I think anyone that met really would always have lovely words to say for him and you know it it was it was a real shock as I remember right I saw him in the gate and it it was only a few games back and um and even his fiddle it was it was really shocking when we heard the news.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Um and I mean there is we should say uh Clifton Rugby um posted out as a mem memorial service to celebrate uh life um and it's on Thursday the 16th of April at 1 pm um so yeah I mean all welcome to attend uh and the funeral will obviously be held privately so yeah really really shocking news I mean like 49 is is is no age is it no and and uh I think there's also uh uh uh kind of memorial game 21st of this Saturday things against Clifton as well um so yeah I mean it's uh as we said it's um it's it's it's uh one of those those cort of bits of news that makes everything else sort of pale into insignificance a little bit.

unknown 32:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Okay. Um so moving on to the list boys the other thing I just wanted to have a brief chat about was the Prem Cup campaign not so much in terms of what the games were like I mean ultimately we didn't win any so that was uh that was that wasn't much good. I think we finished uh we won six or lost six one one or something like that. So it was clearly uh it was a development more negatives than positives but I think let's focus on the negatives where we lost all of them but I mean I thought there were some positives and of course the whole point of the Prem Cup in in some ways is that it is a it's a testing ground for Academy boys and and and injured players coming back and you know it's it's and I think some teams yeah play play it like that some don't and I think at least we were a bit honest that when we put our biggest team out it was when we had no chance of going through and it was a nodded sale to be fair so we kind of both used it as a bit of a as we said a hit out for the players but I just a couple of I'll just read out a couple of things that I thought and see what you think. So I I thought first off the positive word that it gave a lot of game time for some players that we we we're really going to need in the run in so I'm talking of Dunny obviously Owen George Taylor who's come through who's who's kind of the next cab in the rank I think from the the done John Owen uh Joe Owen um queue uh played had some a couple of really good good games and then of course Gabs is Ibitoy played quite a few of them looked a bit rusty to start with but you know now as perhaps you know is now match fit so I think that was a real positive that he got a load of game time and then Jack Bates played a lot of them as well and and I think I he got injured in the last one and I'm not sure how bad that was but you know we still need people like Batesy who you know maybe will you know we need our full squad for the run in because anything can happen and he's a class class player. And then I think from a sort of academy point of view I I I I per ones that stuck in my head and I apologise to people I might miss but Thomas Guilliam Academy hooker I always I thought I quite impressed with him looked like a decent operator Paddy Pierce and then your your mate Victor Parsnip Victor Victor Wursnip yeah and of course Victor Wursnip went on to play for England under 20s as well and uh so he's a definite one for the future um and of course the last game against Sale we've mentioned already was was actually an enjoyable game it was though we we scored some great tries but our our our defence wasn't very good and I think even Pat was was kind of had to say that it was a bit of a wake up call that I think every time Sale pumped our line they scored and we had quite a big we had quite a good team out as well so I suppose it gave the coaches something to something to focus on. So I don't know is there anything else uh that we um apart from bats getting injured and and possibly and Lena and Batesy maybe which were pretty negative is there anything else any comments on the Prem Cup campaign was it quite nice to have that at the during the Six Nations do you think well there was nothing else to do to be quite frank with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

I mean I think that the the the interim games early on in the Prem Cup where we could have had a chance to sort of progress were a little bit disappointing but we came up against some good sides and it's a great test for the youngsters yeah later on I mean it's a necessity it's this like I said this odd season we've got to get game time I mean some other teams had behind closed doors friendlies didn't they organized and that's all we had that that that sort of hit out against sale and there were some positives and unfortunately some injury negatives but it's it's needed in some shape or form for sure.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

I won't ask you Lee because you were categorically said right at the beginning of the pod that you didn't watch any of them or have any interest so I'm not even asking for your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

I I I I mean I know I know it's it's it's all I see is just it's a run out it's not a competition is that I don't ever feel that we ever kind of go for it as such. Do you know what I mean? And but like you say the positives are we you know we we we get introduced to new young players and uh you know players coming back from injury need fitness and I think you know it serves this purpose for for in that respect.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

Okay well let's move on to our sort of final item on the agenda which is is obviously the Prem restarts on Sunday we've possibly got one of the more difficult first games back in the run in that we've had in previous years I I'm I don't know about you but it's there's no possibility about it mate an away game at Leicester Tigers despite the fact that historically speaking the last two times at at at um at um well for Matoli won't and I mean la two last year we hammered them and that was the one do you remember that was the the one that got Gabsitoya Ibitoya we broke from our 22 and Gabs Ibitoya lobbed one like basketball to Rich Lane we kind of juggled it and ran. So we actually hammered them and then the year before because I looked it up was when we were kind of losing and then Max Laheef scored a a brace of pushover sort of tries and we we nipped it and um so we've you know let's look at historically it's been quite a happy hunting ground for us uh in the last and of course there was also a foa gate back in the day which uh we'd always love to remember and the tiger fans tigers fans love talking about that they do um but history's only so one factor isn't it and I think the the biggest factor this weekend unfortunately is that it turns out that we're we're gonna be resting Lewis Reesamit Alice Genge and Tom Jordan as might have been expected but it turns out that they're not going to be resting Joe Hayes uh Ollie Chesham or Nicky Smith and I think I think Leicester are thinking about um resting them for possibly the Bordeaux game because they don't in the the because they probably don't think that they've got much chance of it. Just before we talk about our thoughts on what our team might be like and how we might approach it I did mention at the beginning of the pod that I was on the Leicester Tigers rugby show and uh obviously after I said my little bit then the other two pundits um just talked a little bit about what they thought Tigers were gonna how they would approach the game so I thought if that it'd be quite nice just to snip in uh a little bit of that audio uh from last night so if we have a quick listen now um then perhaps we can have a quick comment on it afterwards. Ian how are you feeling about this game?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Well I I'm always beware of a Bristol fan trying to push over the favourites tag onto Leicester but um I I look Leicester are on a high at the moment um there are going to be some interesting selection calls because the the team that's played in the Prank Cup the backup team the the squad strength has been remarkable and has developed through the season and you know there are going to be some some questions in terms of who gets the nod. Chesham starting makes things a lot stronger frankly I mean that's that's a given um because it means that Liebenberg can then go back into the back row um you look at the the players that Leicester have got to come back in and honestly I'm probably feeling relatively okay but Bristol are terribly difficult to beat they are a very good side and I think it's quite interesting because I think if you look at the two sides we've talked about you know the the way in which Bristol have been a little bit more pragmatic this season you'd also see that Leicester have been a bit more exciting this season or quite a bit more exciting or have developed that as it goes along. So the teams are actually almost coming back together a little bit in terms of style and I think that's going to be fascinating to see um and you know Pete's right I think that there is a degree of motivation for the players in terms of the results at Welford Road against um Bristol that will mean that um there's certainly no complacency. So how do I feel I'm really looking forward to the game and I'm hoping for a Leicester win but I'm never confident against Bristol because they are a really good side proper rugby club that plays tremendous rugby.

SPEAKER_04 41:26

Okay there you go boys well uh they were pretty chipper I think despite the fact they're always a little bit wary of Bristol and rightly so because they they they don't always have it their own way at Welford Road I think they are quietly confident for Sunday mainly because they won the Prem Cup quite easily this Sunday and and have bl and I think a lot of their squad players are in a lot of form and of course they're the the news that Chesham Hayes and Lewis uh Nicky Smith are going to be playing kind of really gives them a little bit of a physical edge so I think they were quite there well they weren't just quietly confident I think they're pretty confident for Sunday but Lee you you you you may have a a different viewpoint on this yeah I do I do totally I think that it's a false sense of security that they've got I think uh I I'm quite I I like their um their kind of confidence but I do feel like let's let's face it that frame cut final rested so many players achieve um I mean not rested but that he played a lot of the youngsters because he played them all the way through the tournament right so you know Leicester with a stronger team in in that final and you know it wasn't really much of a final was it let's face it.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

It was a bit of a battery um and I just feel that you know we're I know they're playing the big voice I know that you know we've we've got the the players are the big voice that you've mentioned but this is back to the premiership again you know I mean it's all that confidence it I don't really see it personally.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

I think we'll I think we'll go up there and I think we'll win the game lad I mean one thing I I I was going to say to you miles is that I mean I th I've been quite impressed in a way with Jeff Parling actually at Leicester and I think he has quietly changed them into a potential title winning side and and ironically that it's almost our styles have converged a little bit that Leicester traditionally we think are you know heavy kicking game heavy physicality but he has actually added a little bit of attacking edge to them which is what the guy said last night and ironically Bristol has probably become a slightly more pragmatic side that and has used its forwards to to to get where we are as well as a platform. So it it it could be it could either be a really good game or it could Be a game where we kind of nullify each other and it could be a bit scrappy. You you kind of feel that the after the the Six Nations that there are going to be errors, um, and that that might play to our favour. Who knows? I don't know what do you think, Miles?

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I didn't watch the Prem Cup game last week, and and it's it's great to hear that Lee suggested that it was a little bit one-sided because of team choice. I mean, if you looked at that result, I was deeply concerned about going to Welford Road this Sunday, thinking we're going to get a shellacking. Um, because Leicester are on form, they have great confidence. They will have confidence after last weekend for sure. And lo and behold, one of the ex-Bristol players, one of the that standout number tens of the season, happens to be Billy Searle, who's not missing a thing at the moment, and is basically commanding uh his back line really, really well. So we we've got to control him for sure. Um, and and it may be that those those big England boys are on the bench, you know, and they come on as and when needed, but you know, they won't have trained with the club for more than what half a week and will be slightly disjointed, but uh you know, it let's let's no doubt it's gonna be an extremely, extremely tough game to go up and get a win on Sunday. And I was sort of I would I was sort of happy, you know, slate me if you will, if we if we even get close to them and and and just come away with some points.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

Yeah, and I mean I think we one of the things that we've done really well since the early loss to Saracens and Bath, which was, you know, it's not an easy to play either of those teams away, is that we've really dug deep and we've won a lot of the closer games and showed some real grit and some real graft. Yeah, and I think that'll be the kind of message I imagine that would they'll be talking about in the this week is that it's it's about getting it's it's about putting your body on the line, it's about getting stuck in, it's about getting up again and getting into that ruck. And I bet Dunny's been practicing hitting rucks left, right, and centre. Because as he said to us the end of last season, that's his job. Hit a ruck, don't he's not interested in you know, offloading, it's hit a ruck, get up, hit another ruck, get up. So, yeah, maybe, maybe it it's gonna be a big big contest. Lee, you're gonna add something to that, I think.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, I just I mean the thing that probably gives me more confidence again is our defense this season has been brilliant. And I just feel like I I don't know, I I I feel like there's no I don't have any like Welfred Road, don't get me wrong, it's it's a tough place to go. We all know that. It's it's very difficult to win now. But we've done it the last two seasons, and I I feel that you know we're we're talking about them a little bit more than we than we're not picking ourselves up. I just feel that for me personally, I think if we are on our A game, we can that's a a game we can win.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

No, I think that's fair enough, and I think is is and well done for chiding us for being so negative. Exactly. Yeah, someone's gotta do so. I mean, I think all that's left uh to say is maybe we could have a little a little shot at what our starting 15 might be and what our 23 is. Now that we know for sure that that that Genji, uh Lewis Ree Samut, and Tom Jordan are definitely not going to be there. Um I mean it's difficult for them because normally your go-to place for a holiday is Dubai, isn't it? For rugby players and football players. And yeah, that's obviously off out of the out of the equation. So I wonder wonder where they go. I'm thinking it might be Cancun, would be uh well, maybe that's a bit too far for a week.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

I don't know. Canaries, only a four-hour flight.

SPEAKER_04 47:47

I'd say probably Canaries, yeah. Maybe, maybe Canaries, maybe the Azores, maybe I don't know. But uh anyway, let's not dwell on that. Let's think about it. I don't know. Does anyone want to have a a quick go? I I think I did share with you my my thoughts on what I thought the starting one would be. So I maybe I'll just read it out and then you can tell me what I was wrong.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Yeah, I I I actually probably thought that the team that you put out beat was pretty much what I would have said as well.

SPEAKER_04 48:17

So I sort of said one, you know, Lou said Walmore or Graham Slaw, maybe Ogre obviously at two, Hooker, and then George Klosker at three, after his we should have mentioned playing for England A and getting man of the match, I think it was. And then it to me it's it's Dun Ian Owen, it's the Bristolian axis, bit of grunt, bit of graft, and a bit of style. Um, yeah, and then back row picks itself. I'd say big big Bill Matter, because obviously you can't call him anything but Big Bill Matter. He's not Bill Matter, he's big Bill Matter at number eight, Sante at six and and Fitz at seven, but kind of interchanging those boys as they have done all season. I mean, that's our best, I think our best combination at the moment. And then I've it's either gonna be Ranz or Marmion. It's it's gonna be one's gonna be on the bench, one's gonna be playing. I imagine Pat will start with Ranz, seeing as he probably because he played England A, probably got a nose ahead, but what a what a guy to come off the bench. A lot of people out there will be arguing that Marmion's done enough to start, given what he's done this season, and then obviously now it's probably gonna be Worsley, isn't it? And uh yeah, yeah, and then you've got Jimmy and BVR in the in the centres, Ibatoy on one wing, Revovo on the other, I would say, and then probably no Heward, I would have thought, unless um as at fullback, and then you know, we're talking. I would imagine either Lahiv or Chawatama would be tight head cover, possibly starting to be fair with Kloska, but that one of those would be tight head. Um Thacker Thacks, obviously, covering Hooker, and then Stevie Lua Tua has got to be on that bench to come on, potentially. Uh, maybe even starts, I don't know. Um, maybe if we need to shore it up a bit, Stevie comes on, possibly a George Taylor or a Benjamin Grandona. George Taylor can play back row as well, so we might need a bit of cover there. Stevie obviously can, so I don't know. And then um, well, I was I actually put Jordan Worsley, so I'm not sure who might be there. So I was thinking that you know what I forgot about? I forgot about Mateus Moroni. He's still he's got a bit. I would have thought he's gonna be on the bench, isn't he?

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Well, you need his experience on the bench, yeah. I think so, because then Jimmy could step into 10. I don't think they'll have a 10 cover. No, okay. Well, this is it.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

I think Jimmy will step into 10 because he he did in that Prem Cup game, didn't he? So and then I can't, it depends who else. If if Aidan Boschoff's fit, he might get back on the bench again. Who knows? We'll we'll find out. But I think uh I think we'll have a good. I mean, I think our it's it's gonna be a good looking team. It's uh it's it is a real shame about Grando, about uh Pedro. But that's Dunny's job now, isn't it? And Dunny's got yeah, Dunny knows that he said he's quoted that he's gonna give it his all and he wants to leave the club on a high, having won us the premiership. He said that, didn't he? He said he wants to win the Prem for us. And Dunny, you've got to do it for us, fella, not just for you, just for us and for all the fans. So and Dunny, I really for us Dunny's gonna come out, he's gonna come out like a madman. And he's got the red scrum cap on again, we notice, because he did go away from the red scrum cap a little bit, and he's I'd noticed uh in that Prem Cup campaign, he's he put it back on again. I think that's his super strength, the red scrum cap. So, boys, yeah. I mean, I don't know, is there anything else we can say really? Let's I was I mean, a team will be announced probably tomorrow, won't it? So it'll be quite a Sunday game, yeah, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Yeah, so it's odd, isn't it? Um you know, I I tricky for us to read. In fact, we're not traveling up to Leicester on a Sunday afternoon, we'll be just watching it on the old telly box, which is a shame, but um, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

Right. Well, I had one AOB to finish off. It wasn't really a goat, but it was a kind of goat. And I don't know about you boys, but I've been listening, I'm quite an avid listener to rugby union weekly, the the BBC Five Live pod, and and they've had loads of them in the Six Nations, and one of the ones they do is the Nations Pod, where Chris Jones, uh, who has obviously once been on our pod way back in the day, he chats to the the the Scottish rugby guy, um Tom English, who's actually Irish and has got an English English surname, and Gareth Reese Owen, who's the Welsh guy, and they it's a great I love it. They've been really really good chat about Scotland Wales England. But anyway, it turned out that Tom English has got uh you know, go it was banging on about Gregor Brown was one of his big fans, and you know, he's a big fan of Gregor Brown, the Scottish player. Anyway, but went on about it so much that somebody wrote in with a poem about Gregor Brown, and they were making this big thing about how listeners had written poems for Tom English, and I was thinking, mate, this is old news, yeah, poems in rugby. We've been doing this for about three years, and they were like making it out as if it was the greatest thing on earth that fans would be writing poetry about rugby players. I almost, I almost emailed them and said you are way behind the curve. You haven't got the Humbleys, you haven't got JP Holden, you haven't got Debtion K Town, you haven't got no laureates writing in or firming in. So I mean, I it was a kind of I it made me smile to be fair, but also was a little bit annoyed that you know that we've done that, and they were like, and then they get one guy, it was quite good to be fair, but it it wasn't acrostics, it was or limericks, it was more complicated, uh kind of poetry.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Yeah, but uh yeah, but that's the thing, right? Our listeners, I'm I'm pretty sure the Hambleys and uh and all the the aforementioned uh listeners could could absolutely step up to that level, you know, of pure poetry.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

They've got it in them, yeah because there is in the blood. Exactly. So that was just something that made me smile. Uh, and maybe I should I've still got Chris Jones' email address, actually. Maybe I should email him and and just say, here's a response to your poem. Here's about a hundred that we've had in the last two years, and you can read them through. But anyway, boys, I don't know if you've got anything else to say. Uh, it's I can't think of anything else.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

Yeah, I want to go to bed.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

Yeah, I think it's time.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Am I allowed now?

SPEAKER_04 54:42

Yeah. Well, it's it's good. I mean, we're as I say, this is quite a late one. Uh, games on Sunday. We're recording this Thursday. Hopefully, it'll be out Friday morning, so not a lot of time to listen. So I hope people enjoy a little bit. And then uh obviously after this weekend, we're looking forward to the big day out. So uh everybody, I'd say you normally say have a good week, but it's like have a good day or two. Stay safe. Stay safe. Yeah, don't get sunburnt. And one, two, three, up the bell.