255 - Studio Owners Roundtable with Rachel Brooks and Steph Alston

In this conversation, we welcome Steph Alston and Rachel Brooks back to the podcast, and discuss the intricacies of studio ownership, focusing on the challenges, opportunities, and community aspects involved.

We explore current problems in their businesses, the importance of grants and funding, sustainability in operations, and the significance of communication and connection within the studio environment. The discussion also touches on teaching styles, the role of experimentation in classes, and the journey of being a studio owner, emphasizing the need for collaboration and support.

Connect on Instagram:
Rachel, Seeking Space Yoga, and Yin Yoga Space
Steph and Santosha Yoga Collective

Previous episodes with these guests:
Steph: episodes 236, 205, 227
Rachel: episodes 236, 188

Weekly stories by email from Bonnie HERE

Connect with Bonnie: Instagram, Email (hello@bonnieweeks.com), Website

Produced by: Grey Tanner

Transcript

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Bonnie (00:02.754)
Hello loves, welcome back to the podcast. I am here with your favorite trio, myself and Steph and Rachel, who are both studio owners. So welcome Steph and Rachel back to the podcast.

Steph (she/her) (00:17.307)
Thank you. So happy to be here.

Rachel Brooks (00:19.45)
Yep, same, thank you.

Bonnie (00:21.346)
So if you are tuning in for the first time, there are some other podcast episodes I will list here in the show notes so you can go back and listen to those conversations. It is our attempts to have conversations specifically for people who are stepping into studio ownership and for those who are already in it and in it deep and feel like, like, where are all the people talking about being a studio owner? And I talk a lot about here on Yoga Strong about

things that pertain to teachers or just things that pertain to like regular being regular as humans and figuring out what we're doing in our lives right but I think bringing in these conversations about studio ownership feels really important to me because they affect all of us like as teachers we need studios we need places where we can gather and it's a place where it's easy for students to say yes there's a bit of anonymity that can come with just walking in as a student and not even having to ever go back and

And where it's way different if, know, like, here's my garage as an example. When I'm teaching on my garage, like, I'm going to know who shows up in my garage. So it really provides like a home base for people within our communities. It's an easy way to access the wellness that we have to offer in our, as a yoga industry and the ways that we work together in ownership and in management and in.

in our teacher life and the way that we all weave together is sometimes tricky and also really, really beautiful. So welcome to another installment of being a studio owner. I am going to kick us off here today with a question of what is a current problem that you're solving in your business or something that's currently on your mind that you're like, wow, this is

where I am at with like the way of saying, you what's your current? I think about that phrase like what's your current is in, I think often of flow and think of a river. And if you were to like stand next to a river and see the current and sometimes the current is running fast and sometimes it's this low trickle and has all different sorts of energy. So what's your current right now? And that maybe it's a problem you're solving or something that you are creating. So Steph, you go first.

Steph (she/her) (02:40.487)
Yeah, so we're hinged right now at the precipice of our two year anniversary of being Santosh yoga where I took over ownership and now that we're two years in a steadily like building what this looks like, it feels like a time to up level. We are going to be launching our first 200 hour teacher training in the spring, so enrollment for that is going to start soon, but also this opportunity to.

grow into the more profitable side of the business versus the last two years I felt is a lot of startup, putting money straight back in. We got a grant a couple months ago and that felt like a boost both to our effort and feeling seen from the universe, like, okay, we're going in the right direction. But to also say like that grant allowed us to invest in some things for the business to say, okay, long -term we are.

a center of continuing education, what do we need to do to make that more supportive for the people that come in and do guest teaching, you know, even Bonnie, you coming in and running your flow school in May, like we were able to invest in floor chairs, for example, so that people can sit here for four or five days in a row and have support for their backs. So it's like being established now in more of what is this space? How are we going to show up? How are people coming to us and what do they need?

We're right on this edge of how do we create more visibility? How do we boost our numbers a little bit? I feel like that's always a conversation in studio ownership, like retention and acquisition of students. But yeah, that's like the current feeling of the Waters is like there's excitement. And it also feels like this needs to be held very carefully into the next iteration of what 2025 and beyond is going to look like.

Bonnie (04:32.236)
Hmm. What is, what feels tricky about this right now?

Steph (she/her) (04:38.439)
doing it well is the first thing that came to mind. Like it feels tricky to launch a 200 hour knowing that this is the first time my partner and I who are running it together have ever hosted a 200 hour specific training. And while we may have been involved in many other trainings and aspects of business ownership, this is a new offering and also a new way of holding the community to say you can practice here and build in to

a career of teaching yoga or as we establish our first 200 hour, we want to come out of it inspired and excited to do it again. I don't want to come out of the 200 hour being like, well, that was a choice. And similarly, we're having our first ever retreat off site at the end of this month, we're going to Sonoma with a group of 18 people that like it's a travel, it's our first destination retreat. So those kinds of things feel like.

I want to do them well the first time and I don't know what I don't know. There's just an aspect of like I can plan, I've been to retreats, we've each done little versions of this but this is the first time we are holding it together. Yeah.

Bonnie (05:46.764)
Yeah. That's exciting. Can you tell me a little bit more? Because I do not know and perhaps other people don't know either. What does it look like to apply for a grant?

Steph (she/her) (06:01.812)
So grants are such a unique beast. We have someone who does grant writing for us actually, so it's a virtual assistant that works for us that she used to work with me in person at another studio. And when she shifted job roles, she actually started working for a grant consulting firm. So she got a lot of experience under her belt to know what to look for and how to write grants.

I mean, the very simple answer is like you could Google search grants, like grants for women owned businesses, grants for yoga studios, and anybody can apply. Like usually there are parameters for each specific grant. Like you need to have been in business this long or at least have this range of employees, for example. So you find the grants that fit your industry.

Bonnie (06:35.938)
Right.

Steph (she/her) (06:53.467)
And then you apply much in the same way that you might apply for a job. They're going to ask you some questions you fill in the boxes. So you need to have some things prepared, like knowing what your mission is, a very clear direction on what you would spend the money for, because part of the grant application is a budget proposal. So saying, this is how we would utilize your money. Some grants want pictures or video or they want to see your website. They want to see what you're about and know, of course, that you're legit. So they vet you. But the

Having a grant writer has been very helpful because on our own, like my husband and I were applying for grants a little bit and he has had some grant writing experience in the past with other businesses, but we were real slow. Like maybe one every few months we would look for and apply just when we had time. So having someone now kind of on our team helping us, she found so many that I never would have known to look for. But she has an ongoing sort of roster for us and probably like

Bonnie (07:46.318)
Interesting.

Steph (she/her) (07:50.513)
four or five a month she's applying to and keeping us just relevant and present in Grant World. There's like lot of people out there willing to give you money, but you have to kind of know where to find them.

Bonnie (07:58.708)
Interesting.

Bonnie (08:03.618)
This is fascinating to me. I feel like this isn't, I hear different people. have a friend, Nikki Weaver, who has a nonprofit here in Portland where she works in women's medium security prisons and brings wellness and movement and theater and things to them. And she is always talking about different grants, but I don't feel like it's something that's talked about a lot within, at least that I have heard within yoga studios. And Rachel, is that something that you've done too?

Rachel Brooks (08:29.966)
In the pandemic, was, mean, quite honestly, probably what made it so that we actually survived the pandemic was being able to get, I mean, PPP loans, those ended up being pretty small for us, but we were able to get a grant during, which was extremely helpful. And I haven't been, haven't.

you know, since then, applied for many I've done like for there's been one for like a special event that I wanted to do. Like we have our black wellness weekend that in yoga space collaborated with, last year. And so, we applied for a grant to, to, that, to see if we could get some funding for that. We ended up just doing it on our own, didn't get the funding. So, but

I think that that is actually like, you know, we might've spoken about this in our prior sessions, but something that is regularly on my mind is really trying to figure out what the formula is. What is the formula for making, like having a studio be able to sustain for having teachers and instructors and facilitators be able to sustain like.

how are we going to continue to like be able to elevate and pay more and to the instructors and still maintain as a business without having to just continuously raise our prices or try to figure out more volume or what if you, which is like what I've been running into recently too is like we've been at this cap, this ceiling of one studio room. This is what we've got. This is what we can work with.

I can only add so many classes, there's only so much I can do. And so it's like you're at the ceiling of this is all we can do. And so how do I continue to be able to grow and have people who are career yoga teachers and wanna do that be able to sustain and make a living?

Rachel Brooks (10:21.87)
And so I just think that that might be, you know, having a steady flow. I know with grants too, like you can do like the sporadic occasional every few months, but really it's like having a few applications in the hopper. These things take time. The whole process takes time. And so that might be the way to really like figure out this new model that needs to happen in order for things to be more equitable and for.

us all to be able to sustain better because I think the model that we've been using, I don't know that it's a sustainable model.

Bonnie (10:54.668)
Oof. Okay, I love this so much. Also, I'm like, maybe I need to be applying for some grants.

Rachel Brooks (10:58.542)
Thank

Steph (she/her) (11:00.273)
Yes, there's some lot of misunderstandings I think around grants like before being a business owner, I probably would have said like, that's just for nonprofits, right? You have to be a charity to get a grant. The one that we were awarded is through American Express actually, because we accept their cards here at our business. So that was one of the parameters for applying for their grant. Do you accept our credit cards at your business?

Bonnie (11:09.773)
Yeah.

Steph (she/her) (11:23.131)
But they have a Main Street America program, is specifically for small businesses on the main streets of their town. because we are, Santosh Yoga, this little strip of Loomis, we're on the main street. Their whole purpose for their grant is how do we elevate the small businesses of America for that more visibility in their towns and like being the backbone of like our culture, which I loved. And there's different grants for so many different things, like whether you're a solopreneur or

In our case, one of our big missions is of course, yoga for all ages and the yoga therapy work that we're doing. And I think that's part of how we've been getting a little bit more visibility is we're sort of reworking what the expectation of is yoga, of yoga is in the Sacramento region. But yeah, that Main Street America grant was so valuable for us in so many ways. And grants vary of course in

the amounts that you'll get. Like some are just for more like single events as Rachel mentioned, and some are more for long -term investments. Some are for cashflow. This one in particular was like, you can't use it for payroll, but like, so they have certain things you can and can't use it for. But yeah, I think just the awareness of like what is out there and who is willing to support businesses of different kinds is incredible.

Bonnie (12:44.726)
Yeah, that's fascinating. And Rachel, I love that you kind of brought that too into the sustainability because before we started recording, you were talking about, what's the sustainability not just of studios and not just of teachers who want to as a career be a teacher, but also as studio owners to make like running a studio be sustainable for studio owners as well. that there is like, I mean, Steph, if you're having this person who's writing for five grants, grant.

applications and submitting those every month. That doesn't mean those are a yes, but that it has to be a continuous work and that it almost seems like hiring that out is going to be necessary on top of everything else. But then ultimately, maybe it would be, Rachel, as you're saying, something that help support maybe sustainability across the board.

Rachel Brooks (13:36.162)
Absolutely. Yeah, I am. Something I've been wanting to do for a while, but it's a more it's just like one of those things. It's another thing on the list that I've been wanting to get to and some someday I will get to it. But yeah, like I really do think that that is it's this, instead of just looking at it in this one dimensional, like we run a business and you know, people come in, they pay and we use that money and you know, whatever. It's just more of like really widening the work like

Bonnie (14:04.099)
Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (14:05.806)
the reach, I guess, like widening what this can look like. It doesn't have to be just this rigid capitalistic, you know, it can be. And also like being able that gives, you know, the studio more space, like, you know, we have our equitable space scholarship. That's just a within, within our community. That's just money that's being distributed.

more equally among the community. But if we had more funding, like how much more could we do? You know, and wouldn't have to be just from the community. So there is money out there. I know that for a fact. And so, yeah, it's really just having the time and the resources and to be able to find it and apply for it really.

Bonnie (14:37.121)
Yeah.

there is.

Bonnie (14:48.078)
Yeah, yeah. I've seen this guy once who was helping write grants and do things in Portland and he would tell me about how one person is like, my gosh, it's December. We need to like donate $100 ,000 somewhere. And I was like, just like, you could just send it to me.

Steph (she/her) (15:06.053)
Yeah, I mean, but this is true. Like there's certain seasons I've started to learn where like people are able to give more. So you kind of like, I'm so glad I know I have someone that helps me learn the game because it's like there are certain times of year where more grants are available because certain people need to give away their money. Like what a problem to have.

Bonnie (15:24.256)
Yeah, we're going to that season. is like the tax season is gonna end and end of December, so we're going there.

Steph (she/her) (15:30.175)
And it kind of fell, I don't want to say fell into my lap having the virtual assistant, but we had talked with her about helping me just with the weekly website updates, writing a blog for more SEO, like the Linktree stuff. like it's so, I know you know this Bonnie, like maintaining an online presence is tedious. And there's just certain things that I, I don't always have the bandwidth to do as Rachel mentioned, like all the hats. And so we had talked with her about like, can you just work five hours a week?

check these things, like here's your checklist of stuff online to maintain. And then she had mentioned like, you know, this is a skill I have if you would be interested. And I was like, yes, I am. So we have, like, you always have to consider what is the ROI, your return on investment, even for this virtual assistant who I pay, you know, a handful of hours a week. In the end, how long is it taking for us to get responses back on grants? Like Rachel mentioned, we always have a few in the hopper, but like then we get responses.

Bonnie (16:06.696)
Mmm.

Steph (she/her) (16:27.591)
sporadically on if we got accepted or not. We've only received one, I think, out of the at least 15 at this point that we've applied for over the past months. And I don't expect to get a lot, but that's the thing too, is what is the percentage of how many applications you put out? Kind of like applying for jobs, right? How many resumes do I have to send before I hear back from the one that's gonna fit? So I'm really grateful that she said, hey, I like spoke up and said, have this skill. I would love to support you in this way.

Otherwise, I don't think I would have thought to hire someone else to do the grant writing.

Bonnie (17:01.198)
Yeah, well I think we often, for each of us, I know for myself included that I might have a skill but I'm not, I feel like it's obvious to me or I'm like, I have this, they'll ask if they want something or other people I'm working with and I then learn something that they love to do or are capable of or like, yeah, I can do this. And I'm like, wait, what? Like just say something because like y 'all have like gifts over here that let's all share with each other.

Steph (she/her) (17:29.615)
Yes, like Bonnie, you mentioned before we started recording, like the opportunity you just had at your Oregon Coast retreat to kind of witness these special talents and gifts of people like bringing into this space, like someone running a tea ceremony. Like what a beautiful thing that maybe you wouldn't have asked like, hey, does anybody want to run a tea ceremony at my birthday retreat? like what a cool opportunity to hold space. And I think that's part of what we do at the studio too, which is to like allow people to share their gifts with us and to come in and

Bonnie (17:43.875)
Mm

Steph (she/her) (17:58.319)
and bring more than just, I'm gonna move my body on the mat.

Bonnie (18:02.924)
Right, one I think as to owners, you have like this.

this place where you're like, when I think of, when I think of sequencing, I'm like, okay, there's the science and there's the movement science part. And this is what we're doing. And these are the planes we're moving in. And this is, this is why I've chosen to sequence this way. But there's also like the woo part of saying, how does it feel? Like, how does it feel in you? And so for you both to say like, okay, I'm going to run a business. It needs to hit these numbers. We're going to have to have this number of classes. And then also like, what are your gifts? What's the thing you want to like light up the

community with is like this holding a bowl of things.

Steph (she/her) (18:39.141)
Yes.

Yes, I love that you're speaking to that because it's a regular conversation we have even as a team. Like, yes, you were here to do a job. Yes, I pay you, right? Like we're a service, we're an industry. And how is your purpose of being fulfilled through this studio? What are you channeling or being a conduit of? And because yoga is so much about that energetic work, it's what are we co -creating when we're in this space together? So that could be on the...

weekly class schedule level and it can also be on the business ownership level. It's like, what are we co -creating with the community? Like we recently started hosting death cafes at the studio, which was like dream come true. But to have a community group that's this free, like not -for -profit, just literal space holding for people to come in and talk about the end of life experience. We had a long time student that I knew she'd gone through cancer treatment, but she came in and said,

going to a death cafe has been on my list of things I wanted to try. I didn't know where there were any around here, just kind of been in the back of her mind. I had no idea that she was looking for one. And then she saw that we put up the flyer and she was like, and it's right here in my yoga studio. And so she came and then was able to share with the circle about her experience through cancer. like, so the way that we're uplifting each other through the experience of life and being able to host.

Like these studios that hold so much more than just the business model is like really rewarding and sometimes very surprising.

Bonnie (20:11.448)
Yeah. Hmm. Okay, Rachel. What's your current?

Rachel Brooks (20:19.796)
boy. I mean, honestly, it's more a little bit more logistics. I am so we have the opportunity to expand at Seeking Space. So that's our more established studio. I say are because I'm just like, it's, you all of us community staff, everybody. Yeah. So yeah, there's actually I was really surprised I didn't ever think it would.

it would happen because we've had a great long standing relationship with the, it was a salon upstairs for, since we opened in 2017 and it's just been a really great, cool symbiotic relationship, really great people to share the building with. And I guess I just, yeah, I just always assumed that it was just this very long -term thing. And I think that.

you know, at some point that that was what it was. then, you know, they decided to downsize into a smaller space recently. it was something that they just kind of came and approached. And I was just like, wow, it's actually happening. OK, cool. This is because this is, know, and I was mentioning this a little bit earlier, too, just about we've been at the ceiling. We've hit the ceiling of like, which is such good problems to have no complaints whatsoever. But like it happened a couple of years ago.

It was like we were still coming out of the pandemic and it was, had no idea what to expect for, and you know, we get busy in, it starts in September, October, and then it really, really hits hard in January. So.

And I had no idea what to expect. was just kind of, you know, I was like, just trying to, I guess, not really investing too much or attaching too much to outcomes, especially coming out of the pandemic. was just like a little scared, honestly. So I was like, you know, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. And we just got slammed. And it was just like almost basically like all of a sudden back to...

Rachel Brooks (22:16.332)
what it was before the pandemic and it was just a complete surprise. And then since then it's just been like, my gosh, how do we get like, it's so great that so many people want to come here and that they're loving our teachers and they're loving the community and the way it feels and classes are waitlisted and everything. And so again, good problems to have, but it's like, okay, what do we do? How do we grow? And so this has been a really cool opportunity to like have something that, you know, that I've thought about before and

not wanting to relocate to a new space and up, you know, uplift, uproot the whole community and everything. So I'm really excited. But along with that comes along, you know, all the logistics of like, okay, so now we have the opportunity to have a second studio room. So thinking about scheduling, figuring out what classes and class times to add. And can this class downstairs go on the same time as this class upstairs? And

What does that look like for the people who are helping with the front desk? Are they going to be running up and down the stairs? And soon you have a whole new double staff. I don't know. And they're not on the same level either. So I'm like, this is weird. don't get it. There's two completely separate entrances. It's almost like having two separate studios because there's the upstairs entrance and upstairs studio. And so yeah, it's just like, my gosh. And parking, you know, like how are we going to accommodate?

Steph (she/her) (23:21.627)
Yes, hashtag two room problems.

Rachel Brooks (23:41.422)
double the people and double the cars, even though we don't have any more spots, know, things like that. So it's very, like, these very, like, tangible, like, real, like, logistical, like, what are we gonna do? Okay, cool. And also just trying to, like...

make everyone happy, you know, which I know is impossible, but like doing, I'm going to do my damnedest to like make everyone happy and make sure that everyone is getting what they're wanting, including, you know, teachers being able to add and expand their schedule, including students, you know, who have suggested stuff over the years. And so it's a lot.

So that's where I'm at. If you have any suggestions, I've got a spreadsheet, I've got color coded, I'm really just trying to figure out what this is gonna look like, but I'm very excited and very blessed and very grateful that this is something that we have an opportunity to do.

there is one thing that I've been kind of thinking a little bit about lately and not to bring us into like a different avenue or anything, but, and I'd be curious Bonnie to hear what you think about this. we've, recently have been putting out, you know, putting out a, just the word that we're hiring, you know, because we're expanding the schedule and so we need more teachers. and this is something I've noticed over the years. There's this, I'm getting, teachers who teach more.

I say the word classical, but like traditional style vinyasa. And then we've got flow, you know, and flow and not to say that flow isn't, you know, as authentic or, whatever it is, but flow, I think is a little bit more of a modern kind of adaptation to where it's like the one breath, one movement.

Rachel Brooks (25:27.696)
kind of almost like dance feeling flow, which I love. And so one thing I've noticed is like getting more teachers who are interested or who have been teaching for, you know, 15, 20 years and they've been teaching this more traditional style than Yasa where you're not really doing flow.

It's a little bit more static. It's a little bit more pause between and Which I think is amazing and I've taken both styles multiple times and I love both so one of the things I was thinking about just with this current like thinking about the schedule was like really leaning into that and Really finding a place and Knowing that the students will kind of gravitate to what feels good or have the opportunity for both to where you know, maybe like we you know right now on the schedule we've got our

vinyasa or power vinyasa or gentle vinyasa, but maybe switching that to flow, to where the things that are having that more one breath, one movement, quicker paced flow is called a power flow or whatever compared to vinyasa or maybe calling it a traditional or more classical vinyasa. So people know what to expect and are also maybe curious to try the different things.

So that's something that I think is kind of cool to have space to think about and to maybe like try to accommodate.

Bonnie (26:41.356)
Yes.

Steph (she/her) (26:42.904)
Yeah, the logistics conversation is so real. I'm so glad you're bringing that up, because I think, Rachel, that behind the scenes, I think I spoke earlier about the mental burden, just the constant questions of, to actually facilitate this thing, what will it take? And you do have two yoga spaces already. You have a separate studio, right? And so now it's like this one studio is going to be...

like expanding again. It's so exciting and also brings with it all of these moving pieces and the conversation around what to call classes and how to own what your style is at your studio. Like also is something ongoing for us. Like, yes, I know that you experienced vinyasa over here and maybe it's kind of more Ashtanga -y, but like here we're going to do it this way. And like all the teachers who are coming in with their own trainings and backgrounds, we've kind of had to have like little

mentorship think tank meetings where I say, okay, this is what I mean and what I want you to teach you teach here. This is what the students are expecting and it's I don't know if there's ever totally a right answer. It's an ongoing like thing for us too. Yeah, so it's exciting like a cool place to be in and also like, okay, how do we define it here and navigate this with our team?

Bonnie (28:00.694)
Yeah. all of this is so good. And also, aren't you often at your Yin space? Well, I mean, it seems like you were.

Rachel Brooks (28:10.81)
mean, it's newer, so I'm there physically more because it's needs a little bit more hands on.

But like, I mean, I'm teaching, I'm now, pretty scaled off of the schedules. So I'm like two classes, one space, two classes, the other, super, super grateful that I'm able to do that. So I can think about the schedule and all the things behind the scenes. And that's a good sweet spot for me. Like I think I've said that before, like four to five classes is great for me. That's my great, I don't feel burnt or extended if I'm doing that. So yeah.

Bonnie (28:33.912)
Yeah.

Bonnie (28:46.339)
Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (28:47.812)
I'm kind of, I'm there. I'm, it's kind of back and forth really. And now, now that I'm, you know, having the expansion at Seeking Space, I'll be over at Seeking Space more. So it's just always an ebb and flow. Yeah.

Bonnie (28:55.608)
Yeah, totally. Steph, how many classes a week are you teaching right now?

Steph (she/her) (29:00.315)
I am scheduled for three and often end up teaching four to five depending on sub needs and all that. But yeah, that feels like a sweet spot too. I've learned if I do more than five in a week, it like doesn't really leave me time, adequate time. And it's more about the spaciousness. Like Bonnie, you even described this like about your retreat. And I think it's true of anything we're creating. And it made me think about our retreat in Sonoma coming up. Like, am I leaving enough space for the unexpected?

the things that are going to happen that are magical, but maybe also need problems solved. So yeah, like four to five max allows room for the rest of it.

Bonnie (29:40.125)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think like, I'm appreciative of you guys just sharing your numbers right now and that you've been doing this for two to way more than two years right now. But just because I think there's some folks who are stepping into this, I have a friend who stepped into her studio that opened, gosh, I guess two months ago and she's teaching 10 to 15 classes a week. On top of all things to like.

get into it, which sometimes it requires that when you get going because you don't have money and so have to do the things but like eventually scaling back because it's ultimately not sustainable to do all of that. So for anybody out there who's in that season.

Steph (she/her) (30:18.791)
Yeah, and a good friend of mine, the next town over, she opened a studio about a year ago, like they're coming up on their one year, and she was definitely 12 classes a week while she was hiring and figuring out the team because there's a lot of turnover too. I think especially at the beginning, now that we've been going a little longer, like I've got teachers who are here for the long haul, I'm doing less hiring and less figuring out the schedule. It's like we're pretty set. So aside from times when we get to

expand and all that. It's like I'm grateful that as you said Rachel like I do have the ability to step back a little bit. I've been phased out of needing to be in so many places at once that I can sort of choose like okay here are my anchor spots and yeah I think the new studio owner space of teaching a lot is very real.

Rachel Brooks (31:07.726)
Yep, in there, for sure.

Bonnie (31:09.58)
Okay, Rich, I want to talk about your expansion though, and this is so exciting. And also I'm like, maybe I need to talk about teaching because I'm feeling so deeply excited to step back into teaching in person right now. And I know I've said that before, I'm like, I'm going to step back into it. But I think right now I'm just like, it's going to be so good. I've got some figuring out to see what that is going to look like for me.

But again, like since my oldest is going to school, like even though I don't like show up with him or he doesn't need me, but like there's still just more space without one, one less kid that's going to be like right here. And feel like I want to be at the crossroads with like my kids when they're showing up. And so there's just one less person to be doing that for and with, which changes to how I'm getting like the space for me. So we can talk more about that later, but, but I'm also excited for.

I think teachers, know, when they want to do more and for the community that maybe wants particular classes and there's a second space so you can run different workshops and you can have like a whole beginner's course that's happening at the same time that you have regular classes. I love the idea of having a set ramp program of like this is where you begin to come to a yoga studio and what you tell students who are

brand spanking near to the practice, regardless even of their physical capabilities to have a suggested, go do this in this order or to have a specific program for them and just the opportunities to open up space for, there's just so much that's so exciting.

Rachel Brooks (32:55.726)
Yeah, it is very exciting. And yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes. And I'm also just like, I think one thing too is, and I think I've said this before too, just.

taking it in building in small, small increments. doesn't need to be this giant. We have a whole second schedule. And it's like, no, we're doing like five to eight classes tops starting out with, and then in a few months or even in a year, whatever it is, like it's just this very small increments that make it sustainable. It's a lot, it's more payroll going out.

Bonnie (33:16.962)
Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (33:27.908)
Hopefully more in profit coming in, like that time, you know, I don't know what this is going to look like. It's not going to be this immediate. Even people have said, this is double the double the profit. No, it's not. It's not. So I think when it comes down to it, the room upstairs will be approximately. Yeah.

Bonnie (33:30.242)
Mm

Bonnie (33:39.126)
Yeah. Are the rooms the same size?

Rachel Brooks (33:48.08)
maybe one or two less spots and that's probably more to like really accommodate people who because you know our space downstairs is pretty like close you're in there together and so hopefully having a little bit more spaciousness upstairs but it's gonna be pretty pretty much around the same within give or take more two spots the same size

Bonnie (34:08.812)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is exciting too. think thinking about the naming of classes and this, I often think about just because of teaching flow school and working with teachers to home sequencing and how it.

I mean the expansion out of sun salutations and that flow can mean more than that, but people don't know what that means or people just like lean on sun salutations as that's what vinyasa means or for people to say flow through your vinyasa, which does not make any sense. I like it's become an adopted term, which I understand, but I think is a disservice also to the practice because a vinyasa is the way that you connect things. It is the way you place something.

So a sun A is a vinyasa and a sun B, and then also everything else that's not that, but that you're intentionally connecting together. And so it is like a more traditional lookout to have like the sun citations in it. And so I think it's actually, it feels exciting to me. like, my gosh, if you were to actually like embrace and be like, this is like traditional vinyasa and even to put the word traditional with it, right? Like, and this is.

traditional vinyasa and maybe it's flow, maybe it's flow vinyasa, I don't know, but to have maybe the word vinyasa isn't in it, but it's something that I have actually come up against. I don't know if that's a phrase, but this is something that I feel like the conversation that has been.

a part of Flow School, think, especially in the past year and a half, two years. I would say that for the past year and a half for sure. I feel like the way that I'm leading Flow School and who's coming to it and their engagement in it and their ability, my ability to deliver really what we're doing and how we're doing it is really being understood and people are understanding how to really make it happen and that it is different. And you can do it really well differently, but it's not.

Bonnie (36:05.77)
is not going to be like Sun A and Sun B. It's not that based and where power is Sun A and B based, but it also looks so different studio to studio and teacher to teacher. Like it often means that you are like, okay, we're going to hold a high lunge and now we're going to pulse it five times. And then you're going to, so it's like long hold slash like reps. Like I feel like power often includes reps of something.

Rachel Brooks (36:25.264)
you

Bonnie (36:35.79)
And I don't know, which is just totally different. And I think a Hatha class where it is a pose, I think of a Hatha as pose practice. so to like rename and help the teachers and stuff, I liked how you said that where I think for me, if I, when I envision like studio ownership, even if I like, if that's ever something that I decided to launch myself into in 15 plus years.

I'm like the understanding with your team of saying this is what this class means and if you want to teach shunes and nonsunes then like be a vinyasa teacher and be a flow teacher and that this is what students we want to deliver what students are like being able to read the description of and show up because there's a lot of teachers that I talk to who are like I teach my power vinyasa my vinyasa exactly the same.

because really, because I put it out there, I'm like, what's the difference between power and not power? And there's not a strong enough difference usually. like the style isn't, like it's not defined enough. So I think it's on studio owners to really define that because there's not an overall definition. And because Power Vinyasa was named Power at...

like that was like East Coast was named Power and was like athletic based. was like, do the reps, we're trying to be athletes at yoga. And then Power was like West Coast, like coming from Ashtanga where it was like, okay, I don't want to do Ashtanga, but I want to kind of funk it up, but I'm going to call it Power and Power is going to be a good marketing tool. then, know, Baptiste was like, okay, well this is Power and it has to have these 11 sections. So all this is Power and it's all like become like this weird mashup in the middle, which is not very helpful.

Steph (she/her) (38:19.111)
Yeah, yeah. And your previous podcast about this was so helpful, by the way. Like I went back and listened to that when we were leading up to having our teacher group meeting day, where I sort of gave this review of the history of yoga to basically say like, everything we're practicing is essentially like around 100 years old, right? You know, like the way that it all ended up coming filtered down into what we know now, leaves lots of room for interpretation.

And so like, we're going to interpret it this way at this studio. And I think what you said, Bonnie, like the way we deliver it so that people know what we're doing and how we're doing it, like for our students, for our team, like that's, that's the whole journey of a business owner right there, right? As a yoga studio owner to say, can I clearly communicate what we're delivering, what they're going to receive, how we're doing it? You know, even I think like applying to grants, like it's all, how can I communicate what it is? So people know what I'm offering and what they're receiving and that it's a good match.

Bonnie (39:07.554)
Mm

Steph (she/her) (39:15.703)
And I think like you said, doing flow school and all of that, it's all about that aligning with does the students values and what they need, what their goals are in their movement practice match this studio? You know, like we're a non heated studio where there's a lot of studios around here that are hot, hot yoga, hot vinyasa. And so establishing that, like, how do we communicate what we are, what we're not so that the right people find us? And yeah, like when they read the description, they know that they're coming for this specific

thing we've prepared for them and they're going to get what they ordered.

Rachel Brooks (39:48.654)
Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't heard that podcast episode, so I'll check that out, Bonnie. But yeah, that's something that I have definitely run into. And I've heard that said several times. I'm like, then why are we calling it something different? Why are we calling it Power Vinyasa if we're teaching Vinyasa or what, you know, if it's the same, there's no differentiation there. And so that is a good like,

just check in and being like, okay, well, how am I communicating what the studio expectation is? like, I'm like, no, if I'm saying that we're delivering something, how do I relay that? you know, I don't want to say quality control, but like, just check in. And sometimes even just being able to be there enough to take everyone's classes, like.

Bonnie (40:24.685)
Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (40:30.19)
you know, long periods of time where I was like, have, well, sometimes to be quite frank and honest, and I know I've probably said this before too, sometimes the last thing I want to do is take a class because I've just taught so many classes and I don't want to take a class, but you know,

Bonnie (40:42.84)
Yeah.

You're like a tiger to yoga.

Bonnie (40:50.794)
It's so real actually, it's like truly real.

Rachel Brooks (40:50.914)
Woof!

but then having and being able to, cause you know, I think it's just the nature of things too, is people get into their, their rhythms with things and whatever. And like, just because I auditioned you for this and we, we, you know, put you in this, this specific class two years ago, you know, or whatever. Does that mean that's anywhere near what you're teaching now? I don't know. Got to take your class, you know, got to find out. it's like that finding the time to actually like have those ongoing.

Bonnie (41:15.651)
Mm

Rachel Brooks (41:20.44)
regular check -ins and communication about like what's really being offered in the room right then, you know?

Bonnie (41:28.182)
Yeah, you know, so one of the things I was working with a teacher who stepped into studio ownership and she was talking about exactly this of how to kind of help initiate those conversations of one -on -ones with your teachers to say like, okay, let's check in. It's been two years. Is this what you're still like, are you teaching? Are you teaching this? Or have you changed in those two years? And also is this still what you want to be teaching? Because I found that too, when I was managing the studio that people were doing things that they didn't.

Rachel Brooks (41:52.313)
Yeah.

Bonnie (41:56.366)
want to do, or they had some other ideas of like, actually, think I would be, it'd be so awesome for me to teach this other thing. I was like, okay, great. Like if you're feeling passionate about that, like everybody's going to feel that if that's the thing you want to teach, let's change it up for you. But in working with this other studio owner person, like they were talking about how

It's kind of difficult sometimes to step into those conversations. So much of running a studio and being the point person and running a team too, is being able to have these hard conversations, having honest conversations, but as Brenny Brown puts like, you gotta be clear and kind. Like you've got to say the things. And there's so many people right now they've heard of, my kids actually had this experience too, but I was talking to a friend yesterday who's being, instead of like quiet quitting, you're like quiet fired, where you're just like not scheduled for the next two weeks.

Rachel Brooks (42:46.919)
that's been a service in this thing forever.

Bonnie (42:49.568)
Right? Well, I don't like it. I didn't know this. My kids were like, yeah, it's totally service stuff, like food stuff. And I'm like, wait, why don't we just managers just need to like actually have the conversation. It's hard to be like, so we're going to let you go. Right. You have to face your own fears, I think, as a manager then to like lean into those hard conversations and perhaps have training in how to like do that.

which is huge, but then I feel like that's like part of stuff that's sometimes not spoken to as being a studio owner, it seems like, or that's an experience that you have a studio owner is like, I have to approach these people. And it's one of the things I've thought of, I'm like, man, I think we should make a template that is like a review template that you could go into. Cause then if you have an agreed upon, like this is what the class needs to have, and this is how it's going to run. And then going to come to your class and we're going to talk about these things afterwards.

So we have like a basis of like, this is how it's gonna run. And that can still mean that there's a lot of wiggle room within how like the flow of something happens, but just to like give people a starting point of how to even begin those conversations.

Steph (she/her) (43:53.627)
Yes. my gosh. mean, coach training was huge for me on that. because a lot of what we talked about was coach style leadership in the way that you resolve a breakdown in communication or have clear agreements. So I'm really grateful that like, that's why I pursued coaching actually was to have those skills, just to know how to have hard conversations with people. Cause I saw a lot of skill in coaches, which are like,

as a coach, you say the things that are hard to say, right? You're in that practice of noticing others and witnessing them. And as a leader, I think it's such a valuable skill, because I've had many toxic managers and bosses in the past who like, won't just face up to the thing or like, how do you have an evaluation, but it's not an evaluation. I was like, how do you have a leadership style that doesn't scare people? That was my big thing. Like I want to lead this team, but have them know like we're in it together. It's a side by side thing, not a top down.

I'm the boss and you better do what I say or get a write up kind of thing. And that's what drew me to this program. But I started in coach style leadership. There were workshops for that. And then the decision to do the full training was so that I could really embody and learn those skills. But yeah, we had kind of the template for like, here's how to approach an uncomfortable conversation. And when there's a breakdown in relationship, here's the steps. And I was like,

this is exactly what I needed and I've used it. I've used it recently just even with staff communication and teachers sometimes it was they're not teaching what I thought they were teaching and I finally went to a class and was like, what is happening? So it happens.

And then being able to know how to approach it to say like, hey, let's have a conversation. And like, this is what I noticed and this is the feedback I'm getting from students and like, what can we do here? And it resolved beautifully. We ended up changing the name of the class and now it thrives and everybody's happy. The teacher's like, I'm so much happier. The students are so much happier. They know what they're getting, right? But just even to have those conversations or sometimes let people go, but know that I can approach it from a place that is clear.

Steph (she/her) (45:57.977)
and kind so that they know exactly where I'm coming from. Old me was like so much more of a like, I'm gonna hurt their feelings. I wanna like not say the thing. But now I'm like, okay, here's the easy .com communication we had. I'm gonna put it on email so we both have it in writing. I wanna support you and knowing what my outcome is before I start is a huge part of that. I want us to leave on good terms. I want us to feel like this didn't end toxically and I will sometimes just name it that way.

Like, hey, I need to have an uncomfortable conversation with you. And I'm feeling a little bit unsure about it because I want to maintain our relationship. So can we go into this agreeing that we want to leave clear and steady? And I can't always control that from the other person, but that's helped a ton. Just having the languaging sometimes, like knowing, what do I say to bring this up? Have this conversation.

Bonnie (46:38.188)
Yeah.

Bonnie (46:52.536)
Mm.

I like the way that you even say that you sometimes name it that way. It sounds similar to the way that I tell teachers, I'm like, just talk to your students. I'm like, actually just tell them, invite them into the conversation and I'm like, tell them you're taking flow school. Tell them that your sequences in the next two months are gonna be kind of funky and you're excited for their feedback because you're gonna be doing some different things.

just get them in on it so they have some buy -in so they aren't blindsided that you're going to be trying new things. They know and now they're going to be on the journey with you. In that same vein, you're like, okay, hey, I have a thing and it doesn't necessarily mean that we're all not going to shrink on the inside of it. Okay, what's going to happen? What's African going to me? I remember I was teaching and

Steph (she/her) (47:31.335)
Yeah.

Bonnie (47:45.982)
A studio owner, she came to my class and she told me that my music needed to be louder at the beginning. And so to let people just like move a little bit quicker through things. I don't know. I can't remember something, but you know, I walked out of that conversation where she was trying to be the kindest and I was like, why am I even teaching? Right.

Like, I ruined everything. Like, why am I even here? And the, which is like a real experience. Like, as a teacher, we're trying to like put our heart into it, show up and do the thing and be like, great. I shouldn't even try.

Rachel Brooks (48:21.06)
you

Steph (she/her) (48:24.131)
And that's so real. Like I think about all the time is how are they going to feel on the other side? But I think years of therapy have also helped me see like what's mine to hold. Like, like, and I've named that with, I never want someone to leave on resourced, you know, like I've had that conversation with someone even recently where the conversation ended and it was clear that like there were a lot of feelings and I

just said, like, where are you landing right now? Like, you where do need to be walking out of here? And I didn't feel like it was mine to fix, but I definitely wanted it to still be named, you know, and, and to be able to hold them and like, it's okay, like to that. There's like feelings we've got to work through on this. Yeah, but it's I love what you said, Bonnie, that like, it's not a hide the ball situation. We're not like, when even when you take flow school, are you going to change things up? Like involving your students in that conversation can be very empowering.

Bonnie (48:51.682)
Mmm.

Steph (she/her) (49:14.225)
for them as well to know that you're not trying to keep something from them. And then they say like, guess what I'm doing? You know it's different, but it's just gonna feel weird. But being able to say like, hey, I think your conversation needs to be had. It maybe doesn't have to be that formal, but there have been times after classes with some teachers that I've been like, how did you feel like your class went? And I let them talk first. And the most of the time they will point out like, it was kind of weird.

like I'm having a hard time with this. And then I say, OK, would you like to meet? Like, let's find a time where we can sit down together. Or I've even asked teachers, like, would you be open to me getting feedback from your students? And then we can talk about it together. And then I'll send direct messages to the students and say, hey, what was your experience in class today? Would you be willing to share with us what worked for you or what didn't work? And then we sit down together. And so we know ahead of time. I haven't surprised the teacher with like, bum, bum, bum, here's your evaluation.

Bonnie (49:46.966)
Mm

Steph (she/her) (50:10.961)
coming in and saying like, hey, here's what's being experienced. Here's what I noticed. What are you feeling? Like, how can we come to like an agreement? And yeah, and sometimes they're still gonna walk away feeling like, like kind of low. And that's an interesting place to be in as a studio owner is like, how do I uplift and hold and empower and still recognize that like, everybody's gonna have their own feelings about it.

and some people might walk away mad and can I handle that? I mean we have some students sometimes where we thankfully have not needed to fire students, knock on wood, but there are times when students have their things and you're like is this a good fit for you? Is this a good fit for us for you to be here at this studio? And those, I don't think everybody realizes those are the kind of conversations you'll be part of when you become a studio owner is like there's some wild things that happen.

Rachel Brooks (51:04.452)
Well, it's so real. I've had some of those. That's very interesting. Yeah, it's just something that I wouldn't have expected before just in regards to like conversations with students. But it makes sense. dealing with, you know, there's hundreds of humans coming in through the doors every day. Of course, there's going to be stuff. Of course, everyone's bringing their things and people get...

stuck in their ways or expect certain things or you know, whatever. That's been that's a whole that's a whole thing that I've been. mean, I feel like most of the conversations that I've had that I've had to have have been graceful. One or two maybe not so graceful maybe.

Steph (she/her) (51:49.703)
You're giggle.

Rachel Brooks (51:54.928)
But there's like, there's like, there's a handful, there's a handful of people at all times that, that there's just stuff, there's just stuff that go, you know, whether it goes unchecked, you know, then it kind of turns into more and then also like, whether it's, know, also taking the step, the role of like,

you know, protection, I guess, for the teachers and the staff too that I've had to take of like, you don't get to talk to people this way. You don't get to do that. That's not okay. We're human. Like I've literally had to in an email because that was the only way that I could talk to them. You know, was like,

Bonnie (52:21.58)
Hmm

Rachel Brooks (52:33.73)
We are humans on the other side of this communication. Like we are community members to you too. We are in this with you. And so there has to be mutual respect. This is a business for sure. I understand your expectations, but we are also a member of your community and a human being. So like, please address us accordingly. it's just, yeah, it's just interesting those. Yeah, that's, that's a whole episode on its own.

Bonnie (52:50.678)
Mm, yeah.

Bonnie (53:03.17)
Yeah, we have this. This is the of people. People are messy.

Steph (she/her) (53:08.155)
Yeah. this week even like, cause I'm on the staff for a training that's happening right now for coaching. and yesterday, one of our other staff members, she was like, well, we are in the business of change, so we need to expect this. And I was like, wow. So true. Like when you just even acknowledge, like you were in the business of people, you were in the business of service or you're in the business of change. It's going to come with messy people in breakdown. I mean, like, and are you.

willing, able, have the capacity to hold that and kind of face it because there's times that like it'll trigger me or us as a team or you even the leadership in our coach training like and so then we come together and we say like hey I was upset by this like how do we manage it in like a professional business way but also then we need to carry forward and be resourced to go then teach the class lead the discussion whatever it is so it's

I love that Rachel, it's both ways. Like we're humans too, right? We're figuring it out too. And sometimes it becomes a like, yeah, I don't think it should ever be reduced in any industry to like, it's a robot on the other side, but I think it can become very easy to do that, to say like, they're just a business. They're just the business owner. When it's like, this is my heart and soul. Like I teach yoga because it's like life for me, but there's a lot of those pieces of

running the business that come with it. Like if you're ready to step into studio ownership, it's going to be the, you're going to get grumpy customers. You're going to have people that do wild stuff in class that you're like, where did that come from? And do I bring it up and speak to it? You know, just like, I'm sure we could share stories.

Rachel Brooks (54:53.892)
Whole episode. Whole -

Bonnie (54:55.854)
Okay, we'll table that for next time. Stories of students. Great.

Steph (she/her) (55:02.533)
Yeah, yeah, because I think sometimes we don't hear about it enough from other studio owners and then you get into it and you're like, well, did anybody else have this happen? A student come in and say XYZ? Yeah, or be like those conversations, how do you navigate them?

Rachel Brooks (55:16.762)
Or, I mean, and the thing too is we all, like especially, I you're not in the same city as me stuff, but like the students are bouncing around. So like if they did something crazy at my studio, they're likely at your studio the next week or the same week or the next day doing the same crazy shit. what? Yeah, and so like, we're just not all talking about it. Like, I don't know. So yeah.

Steph (she/her) (55:33.766)
Yes.

Bonnie (55:38.051)
Yeah.

Steph (she/her) (55:38.747)
Bonnie (55:40.664)
Mmm.

Steph (she/her) (55:41.447)
With that protection of both the community, studentship and teachers, as you were sharing, Rachel, I was like, it does feel like a parent role in a lot of ways. I think of myself as the studio mom, both in talking to my teachers who are the children, in a sense. Like, okay, we all need to get along. We want to keep morale and everybody's supporting each other. But also, yeah, from the students, it's like, who do I let in my home? But in a sense.

Like we're a public place, yes, to say like doors open, right? Everyone come on in. But then it's like, what is the energy? What is the environment? What is the standard I'm setting? And like, do I allow people to speak to my family that way, right? When they're in my home. And so it definitely has that side of it too, is are we protecting our energy and sometimes the safety for real of like our community? And what does that look like?

Yeah.

Bonnie (56:42.724)
Yeah.

Bonnie (56:46.664)
I want to jump back just for a second and like this communication kind of conversation and your communicate when we're talking about like Students and community but I want to jump back just for a second and acknowledge a couple things you said about your communication with teachers Is one of the things that I often tell teachers. I'm like just be an open door

It's like, especially for those students who are doing weird things in class, who you're like, I don't know what's happening over there, it's like, you probably actually don't even need to acknowledge the weird things sometimes. You just need to go in and start talking to them. Like, people are gonna say things. People, like, you have no idea what somebody's gonna share, but if you open the door for them to make it easy, like, just go up to them and say hi. Just go up to them and say hi. Like, if it's after class or whatever, like.

let's be open doors as teachers. And it made me think of that when you just said that you are going up to teachers, you're like, Hey, how did class go? And all my work with teachers as much as I do teachers, no, like they know how class felt. They know where they messed up. They know what felt wonky. They like, they know, they know exactly. They can pinpoint all the things. And so

to be able to open the door as a studio owner and rather than being like, hey, you did this, this, and this wrong, to open the door and say, hey, how did class go? And I'd love to have a conversation and to let them have that space because teachers want to be really good teachers.

I mean, I'm going to blanket statement that which is maybe not always helpful, but in this case, I want to blanket statement. I'm like, teachers, you want to be good, right? That's like the majority of like people, they want to like do it well. And if anything, it's like people are feeling like they're not good enough. Like that's mostly how teachers are feeling. And and so they

Steph (she/her) (58:28.22)
Yes.

Bonnie (58:36.766)
like they know where they have to grow and so be able to have the support of a studio owner in helping them grow and that they realize the studio owner sees where they have to grow so they can acknowledge those places and be like yeah that was hard yeah that was sticky yeah that didn't feel like super smooth and this was a little bit awkward but you did this well and like let's work on this and this is how you know and i mean again it's like more brand space it's more capacity to hold but it's like also like you we need the teachers as studio owners too so

Anyway, I just love that that felt like an open door kind of question moment to let teachers then be like, she sees me.

Steph (she/her) (59:06.757)
Yes.

Steph (she/her) (59:15.515)
Yes, yeah, acknowledging people is so huge. Like just, I think on the student side too, you bring up something really powerful because some of my most challenging students have become some of my closest friends here at the studio, you know, like, and other studios I've taught at too, the ones who came in that we were like, we might have to ask them to leave. You know, if they're going to keep behaving this way, like are now the people I sometimes look the most forward to seeing when they come in. And it's because we got through the hard.

like, it's the breakdown to break through. you sometimes be and sometimes it doesn't work out that way. I mean, there are times when it's just like, this person's a no. But, you know, like there are people that they're bringing in their stuff to our teachers are coming in as real full people, and maybe they had a shitty day. And so then that's affecting the way that they teach or that season of teaching for them. And, and same thing with the students, like we've had sometimes I'm just like, what's going on for you? Like, I noticed this in class, right? Or, like,

I heard this conversation happened with you and so -and -so the other day. What's going on? Just letting them be heard first. It's that, I believe it's Stephen Covey, but the whole seek to understand before being understood. Just letting space for people to be heard and seen before then you start sharing what you need to see change. All right, new standard, new expectation. But coming at it from this place of open -mindedness, loving -kindness can diffuse so much misunderstanding.

Bonnie (01:00:41.346)
Yeah, yeah. One other thing I would like to share, I guess, in that, and even if it's in like maybe in conversations with teachers about classes and class setup, but one of the things I really try to support teachers in when they come to flow school because I'm like, okay, we're going to funk it up. We're going to like do some things with sequencing. We're going to like play with this in a way that is quite atypical and is going to require you to

break open what you thought and have to think different things and that can be uncomfortable. And so I try to set them up by talking about Mary Oliver and where she talks about writing poetry. So she has two books on how to write poetry and she talks about letting poetry be an experiment, just very much like a painting, like we can all like try to replicate the Mona Lisa.

That doesn't mean that we are the painters of the Mona Lisa. That means that it's a tool for us to practice our craft. And so just thinking about the ways that I kind of try to help teachers detach.

their self -worth to their classes that they teach and to their sequences, that that also could be really top -led by studio owners to kind of set that as a stage, be like, remember, every class is an experiment. Like if that was just like the tagline, every class experiment, how did this class experiment go? And practice like detachment from what that is and with this idea that there's so many ways to be right. And so letting this be one more experience to practice and hone your

of teaching that this particular moment or the way that it's unfolding this season or this particular class might not, might need to be tweaked. Like the shade on this nose is maybe not quite right, right? So like, let's like hone that part. Then like the hope then is that we can retain our sense of self and integrity of like what we're having to offer without like losing, like I think of myself and I'm like,

Bonnie (01:02:43.414)
I'm not even playing my music right. Like, I don't know why I'm even teaching, right? Like, I didn't need to, you know, I've come through this, we're fine. But like that, it was not necessary and I needed to have that moment to be able to speak to it. But if I really truly am like, this class is an experiment, let's see how it works. And where I try to hold that when I teach of like, this might work. And sometimes I get done teaching class and like, wow, that is not how I teach that again. It can be helpful, I think, to approach that.

Steph (she/her) (01:03:08.856)
Yes.

Yeah, it sounds like the Buddhist principle of committed but unattached, which to me sums up a lot of our practicing yoga, right? Like that's what we're working on. Like we're committed, we're disciplined, we're here for the long term and unattached to the outcome. And let the journey be the thing that surprises us and in business ownership too. Like it is that long game of like when working with our teachers, if we really want to build like an amazing team, it is.

Like we're committed to being here. We're going to keep showing up. We're going to keep experimenting. I love that every class is an experiment. I taught a power flow last week that I was like, that was, I learned a lot, a lot. And you know, here I am and not like I'm the most expert teacher ever, but I've taught hundreds of yoga classes over the years. And that one was not my best, but I knew right away, like, okay, I'm going to go make a note. I know what to do now. Next time I need to

Bonnie (01:03:49.867)
Yeah

Steph (she/her) (01:04:06.203)
fix that ish on my playlist. Like I just need to get myself back into sorts. And that wasn't a, it didn't destroy my entire career, that one class. It's like, I'm still here and committed and we're going to try again tonight and see how it goes. And, and I'm unattached. Like it might turn out amazing and it might turn out like another learning opportunity.

Bonnie (01:04:28.226)
Yeah.

Steph (she/her) (01:04:33.039)
real.

Bonnie (01:04:33.07)
So true, so true. But I think too, as you're going into teaching your 200 hour training, it is that, right? Like you're like, okay, I can be a studio owner and like be running shit. And also like, what was that class? Like, you know, and so to step into saying like, I have some things to teach and this does not mean that I'm perfect. And it does not mean that I expect you to be perfect either.

Rachel Brooks (01:04:46.798)
Hahaha

Steph (she/her) (01:04:56.231)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, and in yoga therapy training right now, I'm in a 300 -hour, finally, taking my 300 -hour training. It feels like a rite of passage in some ways as a yoga teacher to hit this mark of study. they talk a lot about how it's mystery over mastery. You are never going to know everything about yoga. That would be wild. People have studied this for thousands of years, generation after generation. Your job is to be an always student.

always a learner and then walk alongside and say, hey, here's some things I've explored. This might open a door for you. Would you like to explore alongside me? And having it be that more like we're walking alongside each other is so much more comforting, I think sometimes than I got to master this before I can even step in the room. mean, Bonnie, you could probably speak to this even more because you work with so many yoga teachers, some brand new that it's like, it's like, do I take training after training after training to finally step in front of the room?

And sometimes it's like, you just got to do the damn thing. You got to be in there in front of the students day after day. And that's like the best teacher I've had is just showing up. And I think in the same way with business ownership, like I kind of had to just jump in two feet and say, I'm here and now what can I learn? And I'm going to keep going.

Bonnie (01:06:16.066)
Yeah, you have to do it. You won't know until you do it.

Bonnie (01:06:21.496)
Then you're like, no, what's happening?

Steph (she/her) (01:06:23.931)
Maybe like jumping out of a plane, which like I've never done, but you've done.

Bonnie (01:06:27.818)
I just did that too. Yeah, I mean you're strapped to somebody who's shoving you out the plane too, so that's helpful.

Steph (she/her) (01:06:30.119)
And how was that, right? Like you just had to do it.

Bonnie (01:06:40.75)
But it's true, like you do have to step in and just do it. And I think that's the same with studio ownership for like, you can't know what it's like to do it until you're there. Actually, let's end with one question. One question for both of you and then we'll wrap for today. Because you have to just like step in and do the damn thing and then you're like, okay, this is what I'm doing with my life now.

What did you have to set down or say no to in order for being a studio owner to be a yes?

Bonnie (01:07:25.038)
Was there anything? And perhaps that was not right away. I mean, know some of both of yours, you we've talked about the stories of you stepping in and maybe that's something you discovered as you then like stepped into it and you're like, wow, like I have, like there's not enough room. So where did you have to say no in order to say yes?

Steph (she/her) (01:07:46.533)
Rachel, do you remember what it was for you? Because you've been doing this now for like eight years.

Rachel Brooks (01:07:51.096)
Yeah, yeah. mean, I think it's, it's kind of, it's an ebb and flow. Like it changes what I'm having to say no to depending on the stage of the business and where I'm at, depending on staff, all those things kind of affect things. I mean, a lot of it is like, you know, for the first four, I mean, I was three years in the pandemic. then another, so for five years, it was a lot of like, you know, just

Bonnie (01:07:59.308)
Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (01:08:20.97)
not able to really take care of like not not that I wasn't able to take care of myself but it was just it is it was very taxing to where like and maybe that's part of my personality type two where I was unable to really do much but think about the business and physically be at the business but also think about the business all the time and

So a lot of just like it just took up so much space just took up all the space even even like reading books or like i'm not in this an avid reader, but like I have this whole shelf of books that i've read and that I would like to reread and like I have other books that i'd like to read but like

my mental capacity was just completely shot like there is no room for it felt like there was no room for creativity there's no room for anything except for business some of that is self -inflicted and not prioritizing but also some of it is really like i

being an entrepreneur is all encompassing and for a lot of it like and it can change and it can lessen that but like it really is there's no way around it I don't think so

Bonnie (01:09:43.223)
Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna have a follow -up question. My follow -up then is going to be like to the now, so especially this beginning, but now what are you saying no to in order for things to still be a yes? Like you still want to be in business, you still want to be a studio owner, so you still want that to be a yes? Is there anything that you're having to say no to to make that more sustainable and possible now?

Rachel Brooks (01:10:07.536)
I don't know if I like feel like there's anything I have a lot more space now and I'm so blessed to be able to have that and I've had some of it has been like You are not going to be able to say sustain this like your body is telling you or like there's just no way to sustain it If you don't start saying no to some things So I don't know that I'm like, I'm I have more space. I'm saying yes to myself more and my needs more And if anything

Bonnie (01:10:31.714)
Mmm. Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (01:10:37.294)
I'm probably saying no to ego more of like, whatever idea I had of how things needed to look, or even the when I thought before.

you know, based off of history of having business partners or people to help out with things or whatever, where I might've been like, I can't do that again, or not wanting to, or being scared of what that would look like. Actually being open to, like, I need to collaborate more, I need help, I need help, I need to ask for help more. And so really just kind of like dying to the ego of like...

not asking for help, wanting everything to be, you know, something that I came up with or whatever, whatever the things may be. It's like saying no more to like the ego and the mentality that I have to carry at all. So.

Bonnie (01:11:26.912)
Yeah, I like that.

Okay Steph, your turn.

Rachel Brooks (01:11:32.323)
No.

Steph (she/her) (01:11:33.595)
Now for me it was saying no to the diversification of my career for a little bit. There was like a funneling in. And Bonnie, I know you remember this. Like I think we've talked about it on here, like lovingly fired me when I took over ownership of the studio. Cause I was like, I can keep working for you and we can still do all this and I can do that. And you were like, no, stop. You gotta be all into the studio. And you were so right. And thank you.

because it allowed you to blossom in different ways too. And for me it was, I needed to funnel in and get really clear and really boil it down and reduce it to like this essence of what studio ownership would mean. And now like we're able to come out with, when I'm leading a retreat, we're doing a 200 hour training. there's so much abundance, but I was working three different jobs before or at multiple studios before. Like I had diversity of what my career was built with.

You know, or maybe like there was a time back in the day when I had an Etsy shop. So I was like doing creative work alongside this, alongside that and studio ownership. Rachel, as you put it, is all encompassing. It's like, this is your new life. What does life look like from this lens? And it can still be a yes, you know, years in like, and I hit those moments when I'm like, this is what I want to keep doing. Maybe I'm good. Maybe I tried it and we're good. But I'm at the point now where like

I'm so energized for the future. I'm looking at like, what is the next five to 10 years going to be like, I have big dreams and exciting goals. And I still feel like, well, if in two years from now, the answer is it's time to sell, I'll trust that right, you know, whatever comes up, I'm going to trust but in order to say yes to this, it's just like setting down maybe expectations I had of myself, like I can do it all, I can hold it all, I can be all the things and now it's like, you're going to be one thing.

but so multifaceted and beautiful in that one thing. Like you're gonna just like blossom and this will become like the new blooming.

Bonnie (01:13:38.06)
Mmm.

Bonnie (01:13:41.954)
I love how we think we can do it all.

Rachel Brooks (01:13:45.748)
you

Steph (she/her) (01:13:46.683)
I mean, I don't know anybody else like that.

Bonnie (01:13:53.582)
I so agree with that. I think the more that I let people do things and the more I am capable of doing. I'm like, have a lot of things I want to birth into the world, a lot of things to make and there's literally not enough of me to make it happen. And so coming to that place of saying, just somebody else bring their gifts in here because I need you. I would like these things to happen in the world and if it is all up to me.

It actually cannot and it doesn't serve a greater good than if I do not open up that ego place where I'm like, I can do this. Like I can, I'm going to be in control of all the things and be like, actually, I mean, yes. And I'll keep my finger here, but also you bring your whole hand in here and help me out. So yeah.

Steph (she/her) (01:14:42.459)
Yeah, and I think you brought that up beautifully, Bonnie, the birthing of it. Like in whatever divine version of mothering we want to say, like this quality of the creative side of like we have the idea generation, right? We have the motivation to see things start to exist in the world. And like, that's such a beautiful trait. And yeah, there's no way you could give quality to it if it was only you. In this book you're creating, like you can't be the photographer and the one in front of the camera and like,

but you have this team that is so perfect at this point in time to birth this with you. It's like, we gotta have the doulas, we gotta have the partners and the people that help bring the vision outward into the world. Yeah, I'm sure we can nerd out about human design and all that too and that, but all the parts are needed. And I think that's what I've learned is I need to set down that I thought I could be all the roles and own what my role is, which is...

kind of standing at the front of the ship with the spyglass like navigating. And I see where we're going. And I've got this team that trusts me and that I trust them that then they're gonna steer the rudder and row the boat and we're gonna keep going. And all of those parts beautifully work together, but only if we allow it to. If I was trying to be every position on the boat, we would sink.

Bonnie (01:16:04.098)
Yeah. I love this. I love all of this so much. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you for making this happening, Steph and Rachel. And there will be more. We're more coming. If we have more things for anybody who's listening, we will, I don't know. Things are unfolding at the exact timing that they will unfold, but we are excited to continue exploring the studio ownership.

conversations and so just keep looking for those again. Check the show notes for the past kind of episodes that we've had together so that you can kind of tune in to other conversations that we've had and again more is coming because this is I think even this conversation out of all of them feels like my favorite. I think it felt most real and honest and like organic even more than the other ones which like this we're just getting we're just getting started.

Rachel Brooks (01:16:59.642)
Thank

Steph (she/her) (01:16:59.983)
dropping in. We're dropping in. So good. Thank you.

Bonnie (01:17:04.182)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, y 'alls, if this, you are listening and you are trying to become a studio owner, that's like a goal of yours, you are in luck because you are listening to a bunch of people who are interested in helping you do that. So reach out to me or Steph or Rachel, we will direct you to the one of us or

multiple of us that can be helpful in this journey as coaches and mentors. And if this is something, if you are listening and you're like, wow, I have like know a friend that would love to listen to other people talk about studio ownership. And maybe that person is already a studio owner and they just want to feel a bit less alone in the experience than like our hope really is in making these conversations really accessible.

for other people to feel seen and heard, even though we can't literally see and hear you, but maybe you can feel seen and heard in a way by listening to this here. So thank you for tuning in and thank you, Steph and Rachel, and we'll talk to you all soon.

Rachel Brooks (01:18:07.354)
Thank you. Bye.

Steph (she/her) (01:18:08.327)
It's funny.