When Nature Meets Science: How Naturopaths and Fertility Doctors Work Together

This week on Taco Bout Fertility Tuesday, Dr. Mark Amols sits down with fertility naturopath and nutritionist Tasha Jennings to explore how natural and medical approaches to fertility can work hand in hand.

Together, they break down the science behind how nutrition, lifestyle, and epigenetics can influence egg and sperm quality — and how collaboration between naturopaths and fertility specialists can lead to healthier pregnancies and better IVF outcomes.

From real patient stories to myth-busting the “magic of IVF,” this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to take control of their fertility journey — naturally and scientifically.

🎧 Topics include:

• The science of epigenetics and how diet can affect your genes
• How naturopaths and REI doctors can work together for better results
• Why the 90 days before conception may be the most important for your future baby
• What patients should know before starting IVF

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of 'Taco Bout Fertility Tuesday' with Dr. Mark Amols. If you found this episode insightful, please share it with friends and family who might benefit from our discussion. Remember, your feedback is invaluable to us – leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred listening platform.

Stay connected with us for updates and fertility tips – follow us on Facebook. For more resources and information, visit our website at www.NewDirectionFertility.com.

Have a question or a topic you'd like us to cover? We'd love to hear from you! Reach out to us at TBFT@NewDirectionFertility.com.

Join us next Tuesday for more discussions on fertility, where we blend medical expertise with a touch of humor to make complex topics accessible and engaging. Until then, keep the conversation going and remember: understanding your fertility is a journey we're on together.

Transcript

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 0:00

Today we talk about how fertility doctors and naturopaths can work together. Today we have a special guest, Tasha Jennings, a fertility naturopath and nutritionist who's been helping couples boost their fertility naturally. I'm, Dr. Mark Amels and this is Taco about Fertility Tuesday. Well, joining me today is Tasha Jennings, fertility naturopath, nutritionist, and a member of the Fertility Society of Australia. She's the founder of Conceived Baby helping couples naturally optimize their fertility and prepare for conception, whether that's at home or in the IVF lab. Tasha, welcome to Talk About Fertility Tuesday.

>> Tasha Jennings: 0:53

Oh, thanks for having me. I always enjoy chatting.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 0:56

Well, I was on your show just recently and I, had a blast doing it, and I thought you were bringing me on for the perspective of, let's say an REI doctor and how we work together. And I thought it'd be great to do the same with you. Do you mind sharing with everyone just a minute or so about just kind of what got you into infertility? Naturopath versus just naturopathic medicine?

>> Tasha Jennings: 1:22

I think with a lot of people in this journey, it was my own journey that really got me into this. I had been a naturopath for, oh, gosh, over 10 years, @ that time. And as we're discussing today, I had actually already always worked in the medical field as a naturopath. I loved working with doctors and pharmacists and specialists. And I was actually now married to, to a doctor. So the fact that we struggled was a, a real epiphany to me. I'm like, I got taught in high school how easy it was to get pregnant. How come I'm a healthy 30 year old naturopath married to a doctor? how come we can't get pregnant? And so I threw myself into doing everything I could to help us conceive research papers. And then I went beyond that and I contacted the researchers who were doing the research from New York to Adelaide to Italy. I emailed them and said, why are you using certain nutrients? Why are you using those doses? And I was really heartened by their responses. And that's when I became passionate about sharing it. And that's how my podcast evolved. Initially I wanted to share this information and then just naturally gravitated to working with patients in this space and work a lot now with fertility clinics and IVF specialists like yourself.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 2:32

Well, I can actually, relate. you know, I had fertility issues as well. And although it maybe wasn't the reason, I went into definitely made Me want to educate people more. You know, I definitely felt that same feel that there was just wasn't the information out there that I wanted. And that's something I wanted to do different. And that's why, you know, I started my podcast. So I completely understand. I, think one thing that's really unique for an REI doctor is that we see patients come to us and we'll see them spend sometimes years and years with a naturopath and not get pregnant. Just like you see them go with REI doctors, not get pregnant. But there's a little bit of a judgment there. When it's with an REI doctor, it's, oh, things aren't working. Sometimes it wasn't with a naturopath. There's this kind of feeling doctors have of like, oh, they're not doing as good of a job that they should have been with the REI doctor. And so one of the things I really wanted to do is talk about how we actually work together. you know, I, I'm a big believer in alternative medicine. It doesn't mean that I think there isn't a role for allopathic medicine. I do believe there is. But I feel like this idea that naturopaths are doing snake oil stuff and we're doing regular medicine is not true. And that we actually were together. And when we were on the podcast, together, I mentioned how I have patients go on special diets and things for certain things. And so I love to just talk about what have you experienced? Now I know you're in Australia, so it might be a little bit different there, but what has your experience been, you know, as a naturopath in the fertility world. And if you have patients, let's say, like our patients, what would you recommend to them? How to bridge that conversation between their REI and the naturopath?

>> Tasha Jennings: 4:14

I think it's up to the naturopath as well. And I have to say work. There is a lot of research there. As you said, there was this perception that a lot of naturopaths are selling snake oil and that nothing is going to work. And there's still deal with that perception out there. So I'm m not saying it, but we do have the research there now. Like, I was reaching out to these researchers and contacting these researchers. And so we do know that we can use diet, lifestyle. I love the study that was, called feed your genes how your genes respond to the foods that we eat. And this was a human trial and it took just six days to change the gene expression of these Volunteers with dietary changes. So we're not just talking about small impact here, we're talking about a significant impact. And when we're looking at these tiny egg and sperm cells, we can have a significant impact. And that's why I particularly love working in the IVF space. Because IVF is an amazing technology, you know, creating pregnancies that may otherwise not have been possible, but it's still only as good as the egg and the sperm you're provided. You know, there's only so much you can do with your meds and all your stims and all the technology if we don't have good quality egg and sperm. So it's, it's such a hand in glove fish that I, I don't know where it came from that naturopaths hate doctors and doctors hate naturopaths. There's still that perception out there. But we can achieve so much more when we work together.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 5:50

Absolutely. You know, and that's why when I even see my patients, they tell me we're natural, but they said, you don't have to stop. I said, with them, because I don't do those things in my office. I can't do certain therapies that they can. but you hit the nail in the head, I think, with this idea of epigenetics and that these changes in our environment, changes in our bodies can actually turn on and off certain genes in our DNA. And so it's not just, as you said, a little bit, it could be changing major things. It could be changing proteins that are made or not made. And, that's exactly why we need to work hand in hand. Because, you know, unfortunately, I think especially as physicians in the United States, I don't know if it's the same in Australia, but the volume is going up. And as the volume goes up, we're limited on what we can do. You know, unless we have our own nutritionists, unless we have our own, you know, naturopath in the department, we can't do a lot of those things. Our things are me very straightforward, like do this, this and this. And so, I definitely see that role. And you're right. I still believe there are some people who look at that way as, you know, natural. But I, do see that they're starting to become a little bit of a, of a turn. You know, you see even at the American side of reproductive medicine, they talk about, you know, how these different things can affect it. And so I think that's where I see the way we work together being More of both sides kind of looking from that standpoint. Right? Because I think, you know, when I was, I'll give example, a nurse, you know, like when you did stuff right, you kind of felt like, oh, the doctors know what he's talking about. You know, like there was just. There was some kind of self, you know, fulfillment of being. Like, I got right. And they did. And did the doctors, you know, they're supposed to be higher. So they make a mistake. They're kind of, you know, they're like, oh, that nurse must have done something wrong. And so I think from that standpoint, we look at and go, hey, we're doing two different things. We're all working the same goal, but we're doing two different things. You're working with this side, I'm working with this side. And when we work together, it's not about who's doing anything better. We're all doing the same thing to get to the same goal.

>> Tasha Jennings: 7:52

Yeah, you do, you.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 7:54

Do you find, you know, like, for, for your patients. Have you ever heard of, like, one of them, doctor, tell them not to see a naturopath before.

>> Tasha Jennings: 8:02

Yes, I've told them to stop everything they're taking. I've told them, they've been told that the naturopath won't help anything. I had one specialist say that if diet had anything to do with fertility, then half the population would be. I mean, yeah, would be infertile because everyone has bad D diets. So there, there is still that perception there. And I have been told that by patients. But again, the research is catching up. I was actually invited to speak at, the Scientists in Reproductive Technology Conference, which is a major conference here in Australia about the science of fertility and reproduction. And I was invited to speak on the natural side of it. And I think that's a real shift that we are now seeing the benefits of, of diet, lifestyle and supplement changes in the 90 days prior to egg collection. Trying naturally, that is the time where you have, as you mentioned, those epigenetics. Those are the epigenetic that changes that are happening when it goes from primordial follicle, which is sitting in your body right now, and then develops into that mature egg. We're getting a better quality egg. It's the, in my opinion, the most important time in your future child's life is those 90 days prior to them being conceived, because that's when you have the opportunity to pass on the best DNA possible to your future child. And that's why I love this collaboration because it's, I always say it's my job is not just to get you pregnant and like, oh, hang on a minute, isn't that, isn't that the aim? My job is to have a healthy pregnancy and healthy baby. That is the ultimate goal. And that's what a naturopath can help you do. Have a healthy pregnancy and have a healthy, healthy baby. And particularly I didn't seem probably similar to the States. We're getting older, in having babies these days. And so our egg quality may not be as good as it was when we're in our early 20s. I see a lot of my patients are in their late 30s, early 40s. And we now know that it was kind of a presumption that you have old eggs. There's nothing you can do about it. You just got to collect as many as you can and just hope. We now know that's not true. It's not that your eggs are old, it's that your eggs are developing in an older body. So what can we do with that environment to help to optimize it? Provide some anti aging supplements and support and dietary changes that can actually optimize the quality of that egg that's released. You're going to get better chance of conceiving whether it's naturally or via ivf. And everyone wins.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 10:36

Absolutely. you know, you mentioned about like a doctor saying, oh, you know, like everyone who has a bad diet when have kids. But when we really think about it, it's true. A lot of people have bad diets, have kids, but that might, but they're different though. And that's the thing. You can't just take a situation, go, well, everyone breathes air. Why do some people get cancer? You know, it can't be, it's like, well, no, the air there might be a little different. So there are differences between people. And I know when I was on your podcast I was talking about this concept. I'm still putting together one of my podcasts about this straw on the camel's back and how for most people this little thing may not affect them, but for other people it may be enough to prevent them from getting pregnant. And there is some truth that if your egg is abnormal, like anaploid, there is no amount of medication or anything that you can do to fix it. That's impossible. Yeah, But I even would even take the step and say it's actually more important when women are more mature to actually do everything they can to help those other things, because you can't change the DNA part we talked about. But you can change the mitotic issues sometimes you can change the energy that helps with those things. You can change the inflammation in the body. So if when you get that normal egg and it's not one of the ones that already destined to fail, that egg has a better chance of making it to the end and giving you higher success. Whereas the 22 year old, every egg's good. They can pretty much, you know, smoke crack cocaine and they could probably still get a good egg because all their eggs are good to begin with. And so that's why I say, you know, what you're saying is absolutely correct. Those older women almost even more can benefit from the stuff you do.

>> Tasha Jennings: 12:16

Definitely, definitely. Because, I mean the egg cell is an amazing cell. I find it absolutely fascinating. It contains the most mitoch, other cell in the body except for, except for the neuron. But that energy is already in the egg cell at fertilization. That energy carries the growth and development from day one all the way to day three is all already in the egg when you collect it or whether it fertilizes. And the energy has been fueled in the 90 days prior. And as we get older, we don't have as much of that energy available. So it's really important to prep to fuel to give your body the best chance of getting that chromosomally normal embryo because that takes a ton of energy, to produce.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 12:59

Yeah, there's actually been, studies out there have even shown if you take older men and you have them, let's say, try to have a child with a younger woman, they have a better chance than with, let's say, a woman who was the same age. Now that seems common sense because you say, well yeah, they're older, but even when you, when you, you look at it from the standpoint of say, okay, we're gonna, ah, retrospectively look at the analysis and, and figure out, you know, subtracting certain things. I'm forgetting the word I'm thinking of, oh my goodness, I can't think of the term for some reason. But, but when, when you go and you, you look at analytically, you find that even when you subtract the part of the woman being older, it's still better. And it comes back to that point that all the tools that are in the egg, all the energy is in the egg. And so it even fixes the male sperm. And so we see this all the time. and so it's, you're absolutely right on that. I love it. Oh, sorry.

>> Tasha Jennings: 13:53

No, I was going to say, and vice versa as well. If an older woman has a younger partner. because I always, you know, I often say we need Olympic athlete sperm because the egg, you know, does all that work. It doesn't want to have to fix, as you mentioned, it can fix issues in sperm and go on to create a pregnancy, but it doesn't want to have to do that when it doesn, the energy. So if we have awesome swimmers, not just okay, we're far more likely to get a pregnancy out of an egg that's just okay then. And then the sperm's just okay. If we have an awesome sperm and a just okay egg, we're more likely to get that pregnancy. So, yes, men are just as involved as we get older as well.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 14:32

Right. And the way I was trying to say it was when you look at older women and younger women, if you, if you use regression analysis and you subtract the part of their age, you do find that the younger women still have a better chance with older men versus older men with women who are more mature, even using a regression now to remove that. I love to hear some stories. If you have like a story or maybe a case or two where you've. You've taken patients who, you know, have struggle, maybe did typical treatment right away, but we've jumped into it a little too fast because there are clinics who just go, yep, jump in. You know, don't change anything about you. And. And you had success with that. I'd love to hear a story or two about that.

>> Tasha Jennings: 15:14

Look, a couple of stories come to mind. I know there was one patient that was referred to me. She'd already had eight failed IVF cycles. she was a poor responder, low AMH M, so wasn't getting big egg numbers, but just wasn't getting, even to transfer stage. And so she came to me, unfortunately, at 42, which is, you know, it is an older age bracket by then. But I actually asked her to pause for three months so that those 90 days. And we really did some deep work on helping her improve her egg quality. And she went back to the IVF clinic and this time only got two follicles still. So still a poor responder. But we got one baby and one embryo in the freezer. So it's really, you know, as we get older, it's not about getting more necessarily. It's getting the quality of those eggs, which we're able to achieve. And, and talking about jumping into it, I guess, reasonably soon. There was another patient that Comes to mind that she'd been trying for seven years, some naturally, then went to ivf, and she'd been trying with ivf, and then she was referred by her clinic because they didn't know what else to do. Her test results were, quote, unquote, fine. so. And then I looked through her. Her tests, and she was. We were preparing for her next cycle. And I said to her, why have I told you you can't conceive naturally? And she said, oh, well, I just never have. So I assume I can't conceive naturally. And I actually, I remember looking through her results again, thinking, am I missing something? I said, look, I do think you can get pregnant naturally. I said, look, that's okay. We're preparing for your next cycle, but give me a couple of months and we'll prepare for your next cycle. But I do think there is a chance of natural conception, so I do want you to be trying. And so we were preparing for her next cycle. She did try within three months. On the third month, she had her IVF meds in the fridge, but she didn't get her period because she was pregnant. And she still sends me updates. I think he's now five years old now. and there was that realization that she could get pregnant naturally. And there were some small things that weren't ideal for her. I often see results that are, again, quote, unquote, fine. But, you know, I love working with doctors, obviously. I mean, my husband's amazing specialist, but they're looking for disease or deficiency, which a lot of people don't have. But if we're 42 or even 38 or over 35, we want everything optimal. And this is what we had to do for this particular. For the particular patient. So I love talking about successful stories.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 17:46

I had a case one time where someone, went through ivf. Very poor, you know, a, ah, quality, embryos, you know, had a very low blastulation rate. And you, know, they said to me, I really want to get healthier. I'm gonna go see a naturopath. And I said, great, you know, and they're gonna take three, four months off. And they actually did end up taking about five to six months off. And they came back and we did another cycle. And it was amazing. And I remember saying, like, you know, and that made some changes too. And she's like, do you think it was the changes you made or the changes I made? And I said, you know, probably the changes you made. I said, but we work together. And again, that's another example. We're working together. I made the adjustments I had to make. I've seen the naturopath. They made adjustments and she had success. And before we, we were so hopeless because the embryo quality was so poor that, you know, we didn't know things were going to work. You know, coming to the end here, I couple more things I'd love to know. What is your advice to, to, for everyone to know? You know, as a naturopath, obviously, my advice, I'm always telling people, is like, get in early enough, you know, don't wait. What would be your, you know, advice to people that they should know after.

>> Tasha Jennings: 18:52

Today that you have the power and the control over your fertility? I, I think a lot of people, they'll jump into the next special and get another referral and again. And then that's. That's great. You do want the right specialist, but this is within your power to improve your fertility. You have control over the health of that egg and sperm, whether you naturally or through ivf. This is a team effort, not just between a naturopath and a specialist, but between the patient. You know, they have control. You don't want to just turn up to your clinic, handle your hopes and dreams over to the IVF specialist, because if I can't get pregnant naturally, I just hand it all over and they'll do all the magic. And I have had patients say to me, I thought science was magic, and I just get my baby. We still want to create that healthy sperm and healthy egg. And you have the power to do that right now.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 19:43

Now, you've heard me said before, IVF is not magic. And this idea that's magic is not true. And unfortunately, a lot of people go into it thinking that, oh, it'll just solve everything.

>> Tasha Jennings: 19:53

Exactly. Yep.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 19:54

You know, for my listeners and, and people who want to find out about you, you know, where can they go to, you know, find about you, your podcast or even some of the, the things that you offer to help patients? I would love to let them know about that.

>> Tasha Jennings: 20:08

Look, I do have an ultimate egg quality guide, which is probably one of my most popular free downloads, at Tasha Jennings.com au forward slash, egg quality. so that is just a free guide that you can get to help to, to support, your egg quality. I also have my. Your Fertile Pantry program, which is my online program, which does talk about all the things basically fueling that growth and development at your fertilepantry. dot com.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 20:35

Well, you know, one thing I'll say is this, and I Don't. I don't usually like to make comments where I say, you know, you should, but I would honestly say if there's ever a doctor that's telling a patient you should not see a naturopath, I would be worried if I was a patient. That's the thing. I would say with this podcast, your doctor should always want you to be an advocate for yourself. And it doesn't mean that you, the doctors don't agree with everything. But that's why I always say to them, we'll work together. I said, they tell you do stuff, let me know. I'll let you know if I agree with things or not, but we'll work together. And, you know, I think it's always great that people do. Not everyone's not for everyone and they shouldn't feel like they have to. But if people want to, I definitely, recommend it. I work hand in hand with naturopaths and they do a great job and they help a lot of my patients. And I'm sure you've helped many, many patients as well.

>> Tasha Jennings: 21:24

Yeah. And I love this collaboration. It's definitely a team effort.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 21:28

Well, I greatly appreciate coming on Talk About Fertility Tuesday. I'm sure my, listeners are going to like the fact that it's not just me talking all the time.

>> Tasha Jennings: 21:37

Thanks for having me.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 21:39

You have a great day.

>> Tasha Jennings: 21:40

You too.

>> Dr. Mark Amols: 21:41

Bye. Bye. Hopefully you enjoyed this episode with Tasha Jennings. If you're interested in some of her material, please check out her website. I have more interviews coming up with other people in the field. If you like this episode, please tell a friend about it. Maybe they have questions about a naturopath and if it's a good idea for them. Also, give us a five star review on your favorite medium. If you love this podcast, but most of all, keep coming back. I look forward to talking again next week on Taco Fertility Tuesday.