Ep 171 Discover the Sneaky Thought Saboteurs That Are Holding You Back

In this episode, guest Jessica Conoley walks us through all the ways that "Positive Intelligence" helped her get back on her feet after the loss of her mom. Using images like the judge, the hyper vigilant, the victim and more, the concepts from Positive Intelligence, which has been featured in Forbes, Fast Company, and the Wall Street Journal, can help us recognize the thoughts that might be holding us back. Jessica shares simple strategies for recognizing and working with these common saboteurs.

For more about Positive Intelligence including all 10 saboteurs click here.
For a free one hour session with Jessica click here.
For more on Jessica's program The Creative's Apprentice click here.

Jessica Conoley is a writer, coach, speaker, & founder of The Creative’s Apprentice. She spends her mornings writing—fantasy novels, business how-to articles, & creative non-fiction. Afternoons are dedicated to helping creatives’ own their worth. She simplifies their business practices, coaches them through limiting misbeliefs, & connects them with a support community. Her specialty is helping people become happier & more creative as they increase productivity & live their dreams.

Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and  host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks  and playful laugh. When she's not cheering on her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using  her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes. 

To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here. 

To review the podcast click here.

Transcript

Discover the Sneaky Thought Saboteurs That Are Holding You Back with Jessica Conoley

Lindsay Miller: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Stress Nanny Podcast. I'm your host, Lindsay Miller, and I'm so glad you're here today for my conversation with Jessica Connolly.

Jessica connects creatives and creates stories. She's a writer, coach, speaker, and founder of the Creatives Apprentice. She spends her mornings writing fantasy novels, business how to articles and creative nonfiction and afternoons are dedicated to helping creatives own their worth. She simplifies their business practices, coaches them through limiting misbeliefs and connects them with a supportive community.

Her specialty is helping people become happier and more creative as they increase productivity and live their dreams. Jessica, thanks so much for joining me today. 

Jessica Conoley: Thank you. I appreciate you making time to have me. 

Lindsay Miller: Yeah, it's my pleasure. There are some things I definitely want to get to like, we are definitely going to be talking about positive intelligence.

We're going to go there for sure But before we get started I just was wondering if you could share with our guests a little bit more about how you landed in the space where you're at where you [00:01:00] balance doing the thing you love which is writing and then also supporting other people Who are creative to achieve their goals in that realm as well. 

Jessica Conoley: Sure. It was completely by accident. I didn't even know what a life coach really was until maybe two years ago. I started working corporate jobs when I was 15. It was all that I knew. I had always been a big reader. And I'd always enjoyed reading.

And then I'd always written in the sense that that's how I process things emotionally. But I'd never, share with people, you know, it was just my own thing. And then when I turned 30, I realized corporate was going to lead me to a place where my brain was just going to atrophy and I wasn't happy.

So I started looking for other avenues drove to Texas. paid a research institute 600 and they're like, you'd be a good writer or editor or disaster management. And I'd done disaster management for corporate. So I was like, I'll try writing and editing. Did the full time gig for five years as I got farther into my writing career and [00:02:00] then just reached a breaking point in corporate where it was time to leave.

I thought it was just going to be a quick break. And then what happened is. I realized how much unlearning I had to do from what I had been conditioned not only through my corporate career, but through the American school system. 

Yeah. 

And I realized how much of what I was doing was. expectations of me versus what I really thought I wanted to do.

And I realized I didn't know what I wanted to do. I wanted to write. I knew that. I also knew it was a really long shot to make that, my only, income. And so what happened is I inadvertently fell into an editing business. And I did that. And as I was editing for people, what I saw was it didn't matter how good their writing was, what they really struggled with were the mindset issues and the mental roadblocks that we were setting up for ourselves.

And my editing business evolved into a [00:03:00] coaching business and then what happened over the pandemic was my mom got diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer. And so I was just launching the creatives apprentice at the same time my mom got this diagnosis. So I couldn't launch my business the way I wanted to, because I wanted to spend time with my mom.

And so it was kind of a slow rollout. And what happened during all that was I found a certification program for life coaching because my clients were meeting their goals, but they still weren't happy. And they were still really stressed out. So even though they were unlocking these huge achievements, they were still, still just so concerned with what came next.

And I thought, well, that's weird. If we're living our dreams, we should be enjoying them. And then in combination with that, with my mom being sick and helping take care of her, it was. One of the most stressful times I anticipate in my entire life. And I [00:04:00] found positive intelligence and that methodology really helped me see the beautiful moments that there were in the time that was left with my mom.

They helped lower my stress level and I immediately saw how that applies to my clients as well. And so I went through their, coaching training program and I've been implementing that ever since because it had such a huge impact on my life It's such a hard time and what I realized was if I can find ways to be happy in the middle of my mom dying Then this has got to work for when i'm living my dream and i'm so stressed out Like this is like the hardest it will ever be and so if it applies to this It's gonna apply across the board and that's what I found has happened 

Lindsay Miller: Yeah, thank you for sharing that story.

And I, really want to honor the ways that you stuck with what you knew, the work that you did for yourself was evident, right? In those moments where , it came down to it, like, okay, this is my reality. I don't have a lot of time left [00:05:00] with my mom. Like I've got to figure out how to make it through this while also holding onto this idea and dream and business that I've started over here and Even just the fact that you engaged with that to begin with shows so much.

Right but then the fact that you were able to even snowball that throughout that process is so, so huge and that when I was reading about your story, I was like, wow, I, I'm so curious too about what, what you were able to do to enhance and like keep that momentum that you had going into that experience and then, you know, even make it more pronounced as you came out.

Jessica Conoley: The experience of mom getting sick combined with positive intelligence led me to live in the really small moments. And so I knew I couldn't build a business the way you were supposed to, right? Like, I couldn't go out and find all these clients right away because I wouldn't be able to help them because I would have to stop for what I was doing.

Right and so, I realized that I had to [00:06:00] create what works for me in that moment, at that point in time. And that's when I realized that building a creative business does not have to follow the formula of any other business that has gone before us. And there is, an element of creativity inherent to the lives we are creating.

And what we do is in those very small moments, I would wake up and I'd be like, emotionally, how am I feeling today? Sometimes I was just drained and bankrupt. And the best I could do is sit on the couch. And I had to learn and this is what positive intelligence helped me accept was that. This moment of being right here and just recovering, that is just as much work and just as valid and just as important as the days I was able to work on my website or go out and maintain relationships that I had already built or anything else.

And so what I learned to do throughout the time mom was sick was Stop [00:07:00] beating myself up for not being able to fulfill the expectations that I had had for myself because I have read all of the books on how you're supposed to build a business, and you're supposed to do this and all that. 

Lindsay Miller: And you're supposed to be a human, right? I mean, we put those expectations on ourselves for everything. 

Jessica Conoley: Exactly. And so what I learned was other people's expectations and all the expectations I had unconsciously onboarded in, I could let those go and I could really look at today, what is the most important thing to me, how far can I get on what I want to go?

And then there was also this element of faith in the fact that my business was still going to happen. My writing career was still going to happen. And. if it wasn't happening right now, it doesn't mean that what was happening right now wasn't going to inform it later. And that's exactly what I found was in learning how to human as mom was [00:08:00] dying, I learned to be a better coach.

I learned tools that transform the way I look at my business. And initially in 2021, when the idea for the creatives apprentice popped up for me I was just going to focus on simplifying and de Because I'm really good at that and I, speak in a language that creatives understand and I can explain a contract in a way where they don't have like heart palpitations and I'm really good at that.

And I know I'm good at that. But what I realized is I don't just want to educate people, I want to empower people. And Their creativity, what they need to bring to the world, somebody else needs that so badly. And I wanted them to be happy and acknowledge that what they were doing had value.

And so that's what all of the learning of those really hard years was worth. And it, transformed the heart of the business. I'm writing a book now about how to build a creative business in a way that I've never seen anybody else approach it or write that [00:09:00] way. 

Lindsay Miller: I love that. Well, and as I was reading about the story, initially, it was going to be the writer's apprentice, right?

Weren't you just focusing on writers? And then you say in your story, like, I realized, And when that domain name was taken, that this was actually way bigger than just writing. Like it's creatives. I am serving the people who, like you just said, have something beautiful to offer the world and they just need an avenue and maybe some support to get over the limiting beliefs that are holding them back from offering that thing.

Jessica Conoley: Yeah, and I do think one of the things that we've internalized as Starving artists or you're never gonna make a living out of that These are all things that we have heard and we've witnessed in movies and we've seen our entire lives and we've internalized it so deeply But what I've learned is that when I'm the person who puts the limitation on myself that's the cap 95 percent of the time. It's not other people holding me back. It's me keeping myself and what I'm used to. [00:10:00] And so, so much of what I do is about people slowly expanding that leading edge of their world so that they're not just thrown into this, complete alternate reality, but they have expanded their comfort with that reality and they can fully jump into it and accept it when they get there.

But then also acknowledge whoa, look how far I've like, I did this I'm owning this and I'm going to be happy now. And one of the things that I work with with my clients is I'm like, There's always space to be happy, even in the middle of mom dying, there was space to be happy, so I tell them, I promise you, if you can find a way to be happy at now, at this stage in your career, then when you win that award, you get your Oscar, your album comes out, you have the grand tour, you will be happy at that point in time too, but if you don't learn to be happy where you are now, when you get on that grand stage and everything you've wanted has come true, it still won't be enough.

Lindsay Miller: Yesssssss [00:11:00] That's such a powerful teaching. And again, I want to get into more of the nitty gritty of positive intelligence, but I love the, you've said it a couple of times now, the idea of taking those small moments and finding joy, and I think in my mindfulness practice, that's one of the most salient features of it is being able to access joy in the everyday moments and feel like my heart's going to explode. because I just feel so happy, you know, and like, it's watching the morning does that my bird feeder or looking, you know, at the rainbow or the sunset the other night, that was gorgeous. But just being so present in those moments, there's so much joy to be had when we can open our eyes to it. So let's go through the method.

Cause I agree with you 100 percent that there are so many caps or blinders or expectations that we've put on ourselves for when we can be happy or when we feel fulfilled or, what success looks like. And so talk us through in terms of positive [00:12:00] intelligence, what the method is first, and then how it helps you scale back some of those things that really are limiting your vision of, joy in the moment.

Jessica Conoley: Sure. So positive intelligence. teaches you that there are basically 10 characters living inside your brain in addition to your voice. And these 10 characters originally showed up because they were trying to keep you safe when you were younger. And some of them, things that they've done have been great for you, but they've gotten really loud and really bossy and they're drowning out your voice.

So it's these 10 characters are just screaming at you all the time, like, Do you really want to do that? Is that right? Like you know what your aunt would say, blah, blah, blah. And so, what positive intelligence says is these ten characters, they call them saboteurs are really loud in your brain most of the time until you learn to Notice them, and in the act of noticing them, you realize, wait a second, does that sound like what I would say, what [00:13:00] I really, really want, what I really, really believe.

And what's hard is you have one voice screaming against ten voices, right? And so, what positive intelligence does is it teaches you to do little physical interrupts. When you notice those other voices and so if you noticed judgment coming in saying, Why on earth do I think I can go on this podcast and give an interview that her audience is gonna like like judgment Like what do I have?

What do I know for these people? This doesn't make any sense So I hear that voice in my head and when I noticed it I don't have to say anything to it, but I just start focusing on, like, rubbing my fingers together. And I really focus on how it feels to have my fingers rubbing together.

And all the ridges that are on my fingertips. And I start noticing, these little things, or how the couch feels beneath me, or how something smells, how something looks, just interrupting that voice and really tuning into something that is associated with your body or your [00:14:00] immediate environment or whatever is directly in front of you.

Over time, those interrupts build the ability to calm these, characters down and kind of shut them up for a second so that you can go over to your voice and say, okay, yes, I'm getting ready to go on a podcast, but I know I can deliver something to her audience because I help people live their dreams and these people have dreams and that's what I do.

So maybe I don't know the context of a brain surgeon's dream, but I can still teach them about that part where it's scary and the unknown because that's universal. And. It lets me tap into what I inherently know is true about myself, and the methodology that positive intelligence uses is interrupting our, unplanned habits of the day, 

and they have an app that you can put on your phone and three times a day, they remind you to just stop and take a two minute timeout for yourself and just take two minutes to, wiggle your toes and feel your [00:15:00] fingers on your nose and just weird things like that. And then as you build up that muscle, it lets you listen to the voices and decide what you really want to take and what you want to, what you want to contribute from another point of view.

Lindsay Miller: I love that. Because I think that, in mindfulness, we're all about being the observer of our thoughts and the breathing comes into it and also there's, some sensory, but I love the idea of taking a physical interrupter. For each thought, like in having one assigned for what are some of the other 10 that are part of the committee.

Jessica Conoley: I have two that are tied for number one for me. Mine is a people pleaser and avoider. So if I can't please you and do what you're going to ask, I'm going to avoid you. So that's, yeah, for sure. I'm right there with you. There's hyper rational where you just overthink and overanalyze everything.

 There's so many and of course I can't think there's there's all these hyper great. There's [00:16:00] three different hyper ones. I'm trying to not think of my clients specifically. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a free quiz you can do. We can drop it in the show notes. I'm sure if you just go to positive intelligence, I think it's dot saboteurs or slash saboteurs.

There's a quiz and you can go and take it. It's fast. It doesn't take very long and it's kind of like a fun. Astrology quiz, I mean, it's not astrology, but if you like personality type quizzes, it's fun and it's fast. And the thing to remember is, you are not your saboteurs.

Those 10 voices that are walking around in your head, those are things that you have been conditioned from the books we've read, the music we've heard, the family around us, our work environment. Those are just things that we have picked up because we're around them. They are not you. And so I am not a pleaser.

I am not an avoider. I will avoid things sometimes. But who I am is Jessica. Like, that's who I am inherently. And so it doesn't matter [00:17:00] which one of these ten is yammering the loudest. You don't have to get all caught up in Oh, the people pleaser told me to do this, or the judge told me to do that, or the avoider told me to do this.

It doesn't matter. All you need to do is be like, Is whatever this thought is, this voice, keeping me from what I know I want to do. And if it is, do I want to analyze it and figure it out? If it's for my third grade childhood teacher, like I could, but is that a good use of my time right now? Maybe not. Maybe I just want to be like, shut up.

I'm going to get on with my stuff. I got to do this. Just pull the cord and go. And so the saboteurs are definitely present in everyone's mind, but they are not you. They're just. a safety mechanism that's gotten out of control on your behalf. 

Lindsay Miller: Yes, which is such a functional way to look at it too.

I think because sometimes we can, if we're fighting with ourselves about our thoughts or we're frustrated at the thoughts we're having, or we feel like the thoughts are coming from us or, like I have had seasons [00:18:00] of my life, especially in my early adulthood, where I'm like, where did that even come from?

 I don't know. And it was almost disturbing to me sometimes. Like, I don't want to be so tough on myself. I don't want to be that way with myself. But I think once I realized Oh, that's not me, I'm not beating myself up in that way.

Or I'm not being that hard on myself. It was such a relief. And so I love this because it gives just a person even, but also the functionality, like this served you at one time. And it was probably when you were little but it's there because it was useful at one point and it's like anything else we prune the stuff we don't need anymore so as we can honor the fact that It's not because you're messed up, it's because this was functional for you at one time.

Then I think it's a little easier to digest sometimes. Like, okay, I have, I just pulled them up so that I could But yeah, like hyper rational, stickler, like being a perfectionist, go ahead. 

Jessica Conoley: Oh no, if you read them often, I can, I can tell you if you have questions about them, but yeah. 

Lindsay Miller: So there was the judge was the first one.

Jessica Conoley: He's like the big bad. He's the [00:19:00] ringleader of everyone. 

Lindsay Miller: And on their website, it's fantastic because he has this huge gavel and he's pointing at the person and you feel that we do that to ourselves all the time. We judge ourselves with that really heavy handed kind of almost self loathing perspective.

And I think it's important to recognize that that's not actually you. That's not the inside you voice. Avoider. We talked about that one. Controller. 

Jessica Conoley: So that's the person who wants everything to be right all the time, and they're trying to pull everyone's puppet strings and everything.

Lindsay Miller: Hyperachiever.

Jessica Conoley: That's where you're always, always, always focused on what's next, and you don't really appreciate where you are right now. 

Lindsay Miller: Okay. Hyperrational. 

Jessica Conoley: Overthinking everything to the point of paralysis, and it keeps you from moving forward. 

Lindsay Miller: Hypervigilant. Hypervigilant.

Jessica Conoley: It's like the mom who won't let her kid play on the jungle gym because they're going to fall off and hurt themselves, but then the kid never gets to play.

Lindsay Miller: Yeah, or the kid who doesn't go on the [00:20:00] jungle gym because they're afraid they're going to fall, right? I mean, because I've seen this especially post COVID where, with little kids who weren't out doing all the things, and adventuring at the age where you're realizing like, Hey, I'm capable.

I can do stuff that sometimes that they have this sense of vigilance where they're worried about what could go wrong. Cause they grew up in a time when we were all worried about what could go wrong, you know, definitely. Yeah. I see that definitely in kiddos now. And then please, are you talked about restless?

Jessica Conoley: Restless is where everything's ooh shiny, so you never really get into anything because you're like ooh look at that, look at that, so it doesn't give you time to go deep on stuff. 

Lindsay Miller: Okay, and then stickler you talked about is perfectionism. And then victim. 

Jessica Conoley: Victim is everything happens to me, I, don't have the power, you basically have given your agency away.

Lindsay Miller: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I those are regularly showing up in my psyche, I have a healthy relationship with all those. Okay, so talk to us about some more of the physical cues that you [00:21:00] use to kind of make note, do you do the same one for each saboteur? Or do you use different ones? Okay, that's what I thought you were saying.

So what can you give us more examples? 

Jessica Conoley: Sure. So the main thing that I like about, they call them PQ reps. So the physical interrupts are PQ reps. And what I like about PQ reps is they're kind of like a gateway to full blown meditation. So a lot of people think that meditation is sitting alone in your room for 30 minutes, which it can be.

And I do that type of meditation and it's really helpful for me and my creative practices. But the reality is when I'm talking to someone and I'm in the I do not have the option of going to my room and sitting quietly for 30 minutes and just being like, my brain is so empty. And so for people who have wanted to meditate, but are always like, this is not for me.

PQ reps are a great way to start because they're literally 10 seconds long and you can do anything for 10 seconds. Like everybody can do [00:22:00] something for 10 seconds. So they're basically, they have them for all sorts of different Census, right? You want to incorporate as many senses as you can. But one that I like is when I'm in a social environment, especially if I'm anxious, because I'm an introvert, is really doing PQ reps on the person that you're interacting with.

And so what you can do is you can really choose like, okay, I'm going into a party. I'm by myself, I'm scared. What PQ reps can I do? And one would be, I'm going to look And notice what color people's eyes are. And so what you do is whoever you're talking to, you really look in their eyes and you really look and you're like, okay, perfect.

This person. And you really focus on the color of their eyes. Like maybe they have, green at the edges, brown in the middle or blue to somewhere and somewhere else. And you really focus on that. Or if you wanted, you could focus on the texture of people's hair, or their eyebrows, you can choose anything about a person.

And when you do that, when [00:23:00] you're meeting someone, you are paying closer attention to them, they feel that attention, and it makes them want to engage with you more as well, because there's a subconscious mirroring that goes on with that. Another one that I like when you're in public and just feeling a little, ooh, is wiggling my toes in my shoes.

And trying to feel if I have socks on, trying to feel my socks around my foot I'm not wearing socks right now. So I'm feeling the feeling of the carpet underneath my feet. And so just that, because nobody knows you're wiggling your toes. They can't tell you're doing that.

And so you're doing it. And as you do it, it's just pulling you out of those saboteur voices. Cause like maybe. The reason I did it was I heard them say something and I was like, Oh my God, I think they were talking about me. They were like, she's not supposed to be here. And I realized that's saboteur voice talking.

OK, I'm just going to focus on my toes for a few seconds, really like 20 seconds. And then then hopefully I'll be centered enough that I can redirect and really find out what this [00:24:00] conversation was about. You can always do it with your breath, you know focusing on the temperature of the air as it goes into your nose or comes out of your nose.

But you can do it with hearing, too. One of the things is, is to try and listen to the farthest away noise you can hear. And so for me, I can hear some birds right now, which I live in kind of a city environment and they are not near me, so they're farther away. And then you can also listen for the closest noise you can hear, which for me sometimes will be The cracking in my neck or these weird little snappy pop noises.

I don't know what they are, but it feels like something needs a massage. so those are all examples of Peaky reps. 

Lindsay Miller: I love that so much. And I, I really can appreciate the beauty and power of using a social one in a setting where you're feeling especially socially vulnerable or Just like unsure of yourself in that situation and like a way to engage.

So not only is it like supporting [00:25:00] you kind of tuning that voice out, but it's also drawing you in to the conversation or into an interaction. That's so cool. What do you think is the biggest thing that people realize once they start to practice this? So once they start to kind of name their saboteurs, once they realize how much they're showing up, what are some of the things you start to see?

Jessica Conoley: I had a client last week tell me. And he's probably five weeks into it he's like, I have more time now, even though he has the same amount of time and the same amount of responsibilities and he's achieving different goals, he's like, I'm better at just being in the moment. And so I'm more effective.

And I'm more focused. And so I feel like I have more time. Even though I'm working with the same constraints and limitations I did before. So that's one that people really enjoy. I have one client who her day job is a teacher and she was, I think we were three or four weeks into the program.

And they did an [00:26:00] active shooter drill at school, which is a super high stress situation, as we can all imagine. And she said, I had two people come up to me during the drill and say, What's going on with you today? Why are you so much calmer? And so in super high stress situations, people were noticing that she was functioning in a much more, you know, accepted as it is kind of way and just, maintaining her presence.

Those are two big ones that pop to mind. And then for me, what has helped me the most? I'd say for me, the biggest practice is quicker identification of when the voice is not mine. And so I think just quicker identification of oop, that's not me do I want to engage with that right now?

Like, do I want to think about why it's doing that? Or, I I don't really care why it's doing that. Just get back to whatever I really want to focus on. And so just kind of that executive function switch. Yeah. 

Lindsay Miller: [00:27:00] I love that because I think too, sometimes we can go down the rabbit hole once we realize it, right?

It's like I was describing earlier when I was in my twenties, before I had mindfulness, I was Getting stuck on all these little thought drains what I would just circle down with it and I don't know why I'm thinking that and when I try to analyze why I was it just spun me further so I love that element of it like okay.

Here's what it's like a space where you clearly differentiate the thought in yourself and then choose how you're going to engage with it, or if you're not going to engage with it. And I love that step because I think once we can realize we have that choice consistently, we really come into a different sense of our own power.

Jessica Conoley: Speaking of early 20s, what it reminds me of then from my life in my early 20s was when you would be dating and that are they calling? Are they not calling? Do they really like me? Do they really not like me or whatever? Versus, and I don't know how much of it has to do with PQ or how much has to do with being like in my 40s now, but, but now the ability to be like, [00:28:00] Okay, they didn't call, maybe.

And then, does that really have anything to do with me? Probably not. And do I want to waste any more time on it? And it's no. And so just that bandwidth of always analyzing and thinking of why the other person did or did not do something. And it doesn't really matter to me now.

It's just like, okay, well, They're doing their own thing. That's okay. You know, if I want to engage with them again, I will. But right now I got my own stuff to do. So I'm just going to go do my own stuff, which for a people pleaser, being able to say I got my own stuff to do, that's like huge recovery, right?

Lindsay Miller: Yeah, for sure. I love the way that ties into your other work because it is such an inherent part of creating, right? That, judgment, the criticism, the other things that come in that hold us back from allowing that creativity to kind of flow through us.

And so I love the way those aspects of your work dovetails so beautifully where your mindset then kind of informs your work with clients and [00:29:00] lets creativity flow, right? Once they know their own voice. 

Jessica Conoley: Definitely. And one of the things that your PQ reps do is when you are creating, especially when you're doing early drafts or first ideas, like you just got this idea and you're, you're visionary part of it, right?

When it comes out first, it is ugly, right? It never looks like you want it to do. It's rough. But the PQ reps, One of the things you have to do in that initial drafting stage is continually refocus back to this vision, right? You have to refocus back to, wait, I know what's in my head. I want to get it out.

What is this vision? What is that vision? And it's a redirect over and over again. And then when noticing when you got off from that vision and be like, wait, I need to come back. I need to go, you know. And so the PQ reps are just practicing that redirect over and over and over again. And what that means is if you are pulled out of that initial creativity stage, your ability to get back on [00:30:00] track is exponentially faster.

And their part, like the judge is really analytical, which is actually helpful in the editing stages, right? And so being like, Oh, maybe this is the character I want to pull out to help me right now versus whatever. But in the early stages, when you're just in that baby creativity, like I'm building this up until it has legs of its own to like stand on and be critiqued. That, redirect muscle is so helpful. 

Lindsay Miller: I love that. I love that so much because in meditation we talk about that too, right? That idea of allowing your executive function to turn on and be the strongest neural connection you have to filter the thoughts and to communicate them. Give you the ability to focus and really zero in on the useful thoughts going through your head instead of the ones that aren't really helping you out at all.

But then, like you're saying, to also notice, actually, the judge right now might be a really great tool for me to employ to get this part of the project done, or You know, if I'm being hypervigilant about quality control or customer [00:31:00] service, you know, there could be moments when that can be a really useful part of my brain.

But if it's not being at liberty to kind of shunt it to the side and get to the voice. 

Jessica Conoley: Yeah, every saboteur has positive skills. And so the, problem comes in when those skills become so overactive that they stop the progress. So like you were talking about the, the hypervigilant coming in if you were going to quality control something.

Yes, that's great to quality control it. But if you're quality controlling it to the point where it's not going out to the world, then it's gone too far. You know, like 80 percent may be good enough. Do you really need 110%? No, you don't. You just need enough to get it to the point where it can go out and help people.

And that's the other thing is, Perfectionism with creatives is also a form of self protection because we are very vulnerable in what we are creating and we are putting our heart out there and letting ourselves [00:32:00] be seen in a way a lot of other businesses or, careers don't do. And so there's an element of terror.

To many of us that if I put this out there and they don't like it, they aren't just rejecting this book. They're rejecting me as a person. And not only are they rejecting me as a person, I was really vulnerable and let you see a part of me that I've never shown to anybody else because I was worried that it was a broken and wrong part of me.

And when you don't experience it or accept it the way that I thought. And so what we do is we try and make it so, so perfect. And trying to make it so perfect we never release it because it's safe as long as we don't send it out into the world. 

Lindsay Miller: So wise. So, so wise. Yeah. 100 percent I can relate to that on so many levels.

What do you think is the most surprising thing you've learned about your own voice now that you're more familiar with it? Because I'm thinking of so [00:33:00] many people in our audience who, a lot of them are caregivers, a lot of moms, and they've sometimes put their creative endeavors to the side because right now it doesn't seem like the right season, or they're not sure how to fit it in, or they don't know where to get started, or They maybe haven't had a change in what they like to do, and they're not sure how to leverage it, you know, just a variety of reasons, but I'm hoping by listening to this interview and connecting with your perspective that they can see some ways they could just start, to do something and overcome some of those initial hurdles.

And I'm wondering if by hearing kind of what you found out about yourself, like what your real voice was. If that will kind of speak to something in them that gives them that little nudge forward. 

Jessica Conoley: I want to speak to the caregiver aspect specifically because I do understand that from the time I was with my mom and If you are a person who has processed things creatively in the past, like if you are a writer or a musician or maybe you're a knitter and [00:34:00] that's where you just get stress out or something, if that is how you process things emotionally, when you don't have time for it, you are also saying, I don't have time for my mental health.

Lindsay Miller: Mm. 

Jessica Conoley: And. What I learned when mom was sick was to be very selective about the people I chose to engage with, because I had such limited bandwidth, I had nothing left to give. I was giving it all in one spot, and There were people who expected things of me that I could no longer fulfill that I had done willingly in the past, right?

And I, kind of violently, I mean it wasn't physically violent, but emotionally 

Lindsay Miller: Right, you just had to offload. 

Jessica Conoley: Yeah, I just completely shut it all down. And What I realize on the back end is that is [00:35:00] the healthiest thing I could have done for myself, and I am so proud of myself for doing that.

Because what I learned for the first time in my life was that I am really good at giving to people, and I am really good at taking care of people, but when I don't have anything left to give, It leads to resentment and illness and all of these other things on my own end. And as I was recovering for, you know, grieving and after mom was gone, I realized I had an opportunity to see who I wanted to let back in.

And I've been really careful with that because There are people who, when you start setting boundaries with them, they don't like it, and, it's awkward, it feels hard and everything, but, PQ helped me, have the strength and the bravery to do it. And what I found is There are people who I still want to engage with and I'm misengaging with, but I'm still not recovered to the point where what they expect of me is something I'm [00:36:00] willing to give and they will always ask and they will take and they will take and until I am ready to have that strength, it is okay to take my space.

And so, to the caregivers out there, your space is yours, and it's valid, and it is not selfish. It is not selfish at all. And if in that space and that time that you dedicate to yourself, you choose to give it to something creatively, you are probably helping your mental health if that's how you've processed in the past.

But if all you can do at that point in time is sleep, Do it. Just sleep. Sleep for three years. Like, you've earned it. You've worked so hard. And I haven't gotten to the part where I feel guilty yet. I mean, I don't. And so, just don't. I give you permission to take space for you. And I give you permission to step away from the people who are asking things of you when you have nothing left to give.

Because if they can't see that, they're never gonna see it. [00:37:00] They're just too caught up in their own world right now. 

Lindsay Miller: That was so powerful. And I think, just from the start where you said, if creativity is the way you process emotion, then your mental health suffers when you don't allow yourself to be creative.

And then giving yourself full permission, like I'm not hearing you say, give yourself a little bit of permission to take care of you. You're saying give yourself full permission to, care for yourself in the way that you need without judging yourself, without comparing yourself to someone else.

And if it's the same thing as what they need without feeling guilty that you're not showing up the same way that you used to. And, and I think in the process of any type of caregiving, I know, especially for me in motherhood, different seasons left me with varying capacities to be engaged in outreach versus circling the wagons and sending my energy solely in my home, you know?

And I think you're so right that we second guess ourselves, we judge ourselves. We're just wanting to please everyone else. [00:38:00] And there's so many of those saboteurs that can come in and give us the impression or. The thoughts that this is the wrong way to, parent or the wrong way to care, give.

And I love just how completely accepting what you said was, I've never gotten to the point where I regret caring for myself, and that's such a beautiful gift to give yourself, right? Because, you know, and I know that the capacity we have to show up is so dependent on the way that we care for ourselves, whether that's showing up for ourselves or for someone else. And so being able to Just own the needs that we have in that gentle way that you just did, which is so, I think everyone should listen to that part of the podcast at least three times so they can like, let that sink in.

Jessica Conoley: The other thing I want to say though is that when you choose to take care of yourself, you are giving those people observing you permission to do the same for themselves. [00:39:00] And this is what I say about creativity, it's like, when we're first starting out, we're scared to say I'm a writer, I'm an artist, I'm a musician, or whatever because we feel like a fraud, we feel like an imposter.

But when we say that out loud to other people, we are showing them that we are actively living our dreams. And what that does is it gives them one real person they know that is going out there and trying and doing something to build a life different than what has been laid out before them. And in you living your dreams, you're giving them permission to live their dreams.

And it isn't until we actually start interacting with people who are like, oh yeah, well, she did that. I know that girl. Okay. Maybe I can do it too. And so as you take care of yourself, if, especially if you have little eyes on you, right? Like if you have little ones watching you, if they learn. Wow, I've had a really hard day and it is okay to [00:40:00] not answer my phone.

It is okay to not respond to everyone's text messages. It is okay to call in dinner because we're too tired. And so those little eyes are going to learn from you when they're at college and they have finals and they have a billion other things that everybody's like, Oh, it's rush week. I need to do this.

And they say, no, you know what? It's okay. I just need to sleep today. And so, you. Doing what feels so hard and taking care of yourself is helping other people. 

Lindsay Miller: Mm. I love that. And I try to emphasize on the podcast a lot, the idea of modeling. Right? And that's what you just described.

Like, when we show how to do that, we give our people such a gift. And, I'm always one also to point out that the process, like we've talked about, it's not pretty. Of figuring this out, right? Of like, oh, wow, there's a lot of sabotage going on in here. You know, there's a lot going on that's not, propelling me forward in the [00:41:00] intentional way that I want to, but that is also the gift.

Like letting our people see us work through that, letting your people see you use the app, letting your people see you do your, what is it? PQ, 

Jessica Conoley: PQ reps, 

Lindsay Miller: PQ reps, letting your people see you do those and work your way out and stumble and, you know, go back and have to try again.

And that is the gift. And so I think a lot of tens in this space, especially with mindfulness and emotional regulation, we have a lot of parents who feel Guilty and stressed because they didn't learn this growing up and they're trying to teach it and they don't know what, you know, I mean, I'm in that boat too, right?

Where they're skills that I'm trying to pick up and share at the same time. And it's so tricky some days And I think that giving ourselves grace and recognizing that just making the attempt To bridge some of the gap between what we want to be and where we are now letting them see us stumble and crawl our way through that space That's the gift.

So, it's not that they need us to be the perfect person at PQ Reps. [00:42:00] Like, they don't need us to be, able to overcome every saboteur. It's actually more helpful for them to see us have to fight and work and learn and keep trying and be resilient. And, those are the things that they're gonna remember more than if we just are, showing up as a glowing example of something.

Jessica Conoley: Yeah. And the other thing that I learned Actually, that was this year. So after I lost my mom, I also lost my cousin, who has been my best friend since we were born. So she was nine months older than me. I lost her in January. Oh my gosh. And I, losing those two people back to back was so hard. Yeah. Horrible. 

Lindsay Miller: Awful. 

Jessica Conoley: Yeah, and so I was not in a good space, right? And I knew I wasn't in a good space, and I knew I needed to ask for help. So I went to people and I tried to ask for help, but when you are in a super, I can't get out of bed, I don't remember to eat, if you were at that point, however you ask for [00:43:00] help is the right way.

And some people are going to tell you, you didn't ask me right. Those are not your people. Just keep trying. There is someone who understands that text message that seems incomprehensible and Sorry, I haven't talked about this on an interview yet. So in the asking for help, there's no right way to ask for help There are right people to ask for help, but you don't know until you try and just please don't stop trying 

Lindsay Miller: Thank you for that. There's so much compassion that You share, in both your experience and your words, and I'm grateful for the way that you can take those heartbreaking and hard fought, gems of wisdom and internalize them for yourself and then, share them. So thank you for that. 

Jessica Conoley: Thanks. 

Lindsay Miller: This has been such a fun conversation and not that it's been fun to talk about sad and hard and awful things.

Jessica Conoley: Right? [00:44:00] But that's the thing. There's always good stuff in the bad stuff. Like there's always good stuff, you know? 

Lindsay Miller: It is. And I think that being able to, again, like with your story illustrating that so, so incredibly being able to take some of life's most harrowing moments and employ these tools to great effect is, testimony to the fact that in everyday moments, they can, have a significant impact on how life goes for us. And then they really can, show up strongly for us in those moments when we need to build resilience the most.

Well, Jessica, thank you for your time. Our listeners haven't seen it necessarily because it's edited, but Jessica has been so patient as I've had deliveries and dogs and all the things. And so Jessica, thanks for your, generosity in our conversation today. And then also for, just the wisdom and authenticity you shared with, our audience.

I appreciate it. 

Jessica Conoley: You're welcome. And if your audience wants to do [00:45:00] a free coaching session, I'm happy to give them one. I promise you it's just an hour of us hanging out and figuring out something that has been stressing you out. And if you go to jessicaconnelly. com to the coaching tab, just go to the bottom of the page, there's a schedule a discovery call. And I would love to do that with you. 

Lindsay Miller: I appreciate it. So thank you for that. I appreciate that offer. And is that the best place for them to find you? I know they can also get to the create the creatives assistant from your personal website.

Do you want to? Tell people a little bit about that too. 

Jessica Conoley: Yeah, sure. So at the creativesapprentice. com, it'll have all the information about simplifying and de scaring business for people. And then at jessicaconnelly. com, I'm, I write fantasy novels, so I have a very wide variety of what I do. So if you want to read my writing, I've got both non fiction and fiction catalogs there that you can read through.

I also do speaking events and everything, so jessicaconnelly. com will get you a little bit of everything, but if you're specifically looking for creative information, the [00:46:00] Creatives Apprentice is the place for you. 

Lindsay Miller: Okay, awesome. And we'll link to your offer for the free call that's so generous of you in the show notes along with the saboteurs. Fun. Jessica, thank you again. 

Jessica Conoley: You're welcome.