Ep 209: From Fear To Bravery-How Outdoor Adventures Transform Families

What if a single weekend outside could reset your child’s confidence and your family’s rhythm? We sit down with Antoinette Lee—Army veteran, outdoor industry leader, and founder of American Adventures Sports Club—to unpack how nature, camp, and adventure sports help kids regulate emotions, build resilience, and discover real independence. Antoinette’s own recovery from traumatic brain and spine injuries points to the power of neuroplasticity: archery sharpened her focus, whitewater kayaking restored her sense of self, and those same practices now help children move from “I can’t” to “I just did.”

We dig into the nuts and bolts of sleepaway camp—why so many kids arrive expecting hand-holding, how “challenge by choice” flips fear into curiosity, and the way natural consequences teach responsibility without shame. You’ll hear practical scripts for de-escalating big feelings, tips to create team energy fast (think: “Be in the buses in 15 minutes”), and reasons kids often open up to non-parent adults who can listen without leaping to fix. The stories are vivid: a reluctant camper who paddles out for the first time and phones home to announce, “I was brave,” and a bus ride where honest peer talk eases loneliness more quickly than any lecture.

Access matters, so we map real options: micro-adventures in a backyard or on a balcony, university gear rentals, thrifted essentials, and nonprofits offering free or low-cost adaptive programs for every ability level. We also make the health case for the outdoors—less processed food, more movement, sunlight for vitamin D, and water time that replenishes minerals—so kids feel better and behavior improves. Most of all, this conversation shows how small, repeated choices outside can rewire a child’s story from avoidance to agency, and give parents a clear, compassionate playbook they can use tomorrow.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope, and leave a quick review so more families can find their path to calm, confidence, and connection.

Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and  host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks  and playful laugh. When she's not cheering on her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using  her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes. 

To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here. 

To review the podcast click here.

Transcript

Welcome & Why Nature Now

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Welcome to the Stress Nanny, the podcast where we help kids and parents build calm, confidence, and connection. I'm your host, Lindsay Miller, kids mindfulness coach and cheerleader for busy families everywhere. Each week we'll explore simple tools, uplifting stories, and practical strategies to help your child learn emotional regulation, resilience, and self-confidence, while giving you a little more peace of mind too. I'm so glad you're here. Today's episode is with Antoinette Lee, and I wanted to just share a brief note. As this podcast is coming out, it's the time of year where we're planning summer vacations or thinking about spring break. And so one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to Antoinette is that she has so many fantastic ideas about how families can connect outside and how to allow the rejuvenative nature of nature be a part of your family's experience. She has a ton of ideas from small just day trip activities to weeklong adventures to the camp that she runs to create moments where families can connect, whether it's around a campfire, on a hike, et cetera. And I know those moments aren't all rosy and there's arguing and there can be pushback and there can be a lot of work that goes into preparing for those moments. But the enthusiasm that Antoinette shares in this episode is so fantastic because she sees firsthand what these kinds

Meet Antoinette Lee

SPEAKER_02 1:49

of moments do for kids and the ways they impact families. I'm so excited for my conversation today with Antoinette Lee. She has an MBA and she's an 11-year U.S. Army veteran, an outdoor industry influencer, model, consultant, writer, founder of the American Adventures Sports Club nonprofit, and motivational health and wellness speaker. She delivers the New Normal Big Life talk, blog, and podcast. Aside from an amazing recovery journey using a walker, a service dog, and a full-time caregiver after a traumatic brain injury, spine injury, and PTSD, Antoinette shows others how to create their new normal and live the biggest life they can dream. She can usually be found in the Northwoods with her family, stewarding the forest and river around their homestead while living the adventure sports lifestyle. Antoinette, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Thank you for having me, Lindsay. I'm excited for our talk.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Yeah, me

Recovery Story & Hope Defined

SPEAKER_02 2:44

too. So one of the things that I really love about your story is the resilience and the way that you use nature and your own strength within to navigate and create a new normal for yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about that process as much as you're willing to share and just how you found your way through?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Oh, thanks for asking this question. I love answering it because it will empower people to understand that no matter their circumstances, everything they need to have the life they want already resides inside you. And I needed a reminder of that too after a traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury and a repelling accident that left me using a walker, a service dog, a full-time caregiver, and a loss of an ability to communicate and agoraphobia that was so bad I couldn't leave my home for 18 months. So if I can come back from all of those things, it's possible for anyone.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

And we don't know how it could possibly get any better. I think hearing stories like yours is so incredible, right? Because you you can say, like, well, if she can do it, there is hope, right? If she can make it through that, there is a way for me to keep going too. Or there are resources or people I can connect with who can have an impact. And so I I really appreciate those stories of hope because I know I've latched onto them at different points in life when I really needed the external hope because my own situation seems so bleak.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah. I think people don't really understand what hope is, and it's kind of it's like believing in the impossible when you don't have any proof that it exists. And for people without imagination, for people who have been told no, you can't, you'll never, you won't, that's a really high hurdle to jump over. So people who are recovering from illness, uh physical trauma, emotional trauma, people who have experienced trauma in their work, like law enforcement and military.

Archery, Kayaking & Neuroplasticity

SPEAKER_00 5:31

One of the things that we have learned, because there are so many programs and therapies available to us, is that there's health and social benefits to outdoor recreation, adventure sports, things like hiking, camping, kayaking, and archery. And I used all of those tools in my recovery. And so, for example, archery helped me retrain my brain for things that require focus, like having this conversation, reading a book, and uh people who are experiencing cognitive decline or mood imbalance or who are on the spectrum, uh, who also struggle with some types of focus-related activities and tasks can really benefit from archery. So when I began archery, I had difficulty holding a conversation and making new memories. 30 days later, I was back to talking almost like normal. Wow. Because it uses neuroplasticity to retrain the brain. And then when I wanted to get off my walker and ditch my service dog, who's now the family pat and a caregiver, I was sent to uh whitewater kayaking, believe it or not. So I put my walker to the side of the pool because you learn in a pool before you get out on the moving water, and got into a little plastic boat. And for the first time in almost two years, I felt like everyone else. I didn't feel like I was this person who looked super young, but who was walking around like I'm a super senior citizen, right? And I just felt like wow, I'm like everyone else. And that was the moment that I realized this hope that I have is real and it's achievable. My goals are achievable.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

That's so powerful. Well, and I love, love, love the way that recreation can do that, right? Like you're saying, it takes you out of kind of your normal way of thinking, and your brain has to think differently because you're doing stuff that's way different than you've ever done before. And then because you can kind of break out of the way you were thinking, the creativity, imagination, those things, there's like a little snippet of light coming in for that stuff. And then the more we engage, and like you're saying, the more we do the different things that we've never done before, kind of stretch and grow, the more we realize the potential we have to do that in other areas that maybe before seemed kind of impossible.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

And you know, children often at school and with their friend groups and even with their siblings can hear you can't, you won't, you're not good enough. And it can make even a child who has a lot of charisma and creativity and things that they can contribute to a group to shut down.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

But when you teach someone something new and they get it quickly and they're relatively competent at it pretty quickly, that boosts their confidence and their bravery to try other new things in a way that is just so fast-paced that parents almost can't even believe that it's possible. And even I couldn't believe that in 30 days of doing this new sport, I'm back to fully able to be communicated, communicative without having to take five minutes to write a sentence or to have people guess at what I'm trying to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Yeah, I totally agree.

Confidence That Spills Into Life

SPEAKER_02 9:26

And I think the thing that's coming to mind for me is one of my one of my clients in particular, she went on a family vacation to Mexico and they did a lot of outdoors activities, things she'd never done before, and things that in her own space, she would have probably been a little hesitant to do because she operated from a place where fear felt really big. And we would talk a lot about not letting fear drive, right? Like where fear doesn't get to drive, worry doesn't get to drive right now. It can be in the backseat, but it's not driving right now. And when she was removed from her environment, her usual spaces, and had that sense of adventure. You know, she got back from that trip, and I remember her telling me, she's like, I drove a razor. And I was like, You did what? And she was like, and I went fast. You know, I love it. But it's it's what you're describing, right? It's like you remove someone from their environment that's normal, that or the where the place they feel limited, and you put them out in nature, which is boundless, and then they experience that part of themselves, right? In these new activities. And it does, like you said, it spills over in so many ways. And I find it so powerful for kids because so many of the kids that I've coached have had similar experiences, which is one of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you about the camp in particular, but like where they've gone out and done something that was something they never thought they would ever do, and the impact that it had on the rest of their life, you know, not only from the standpoint of bravery and also just like resilience, but from the confidence, right? Like it just carried over into everything else. And so I love that your focus is on like these types of experiences where kids can kind of blow their own minds and be like, wait, I can do that. And what does that mean? Like, what does that mean for my future? You know, it's amazing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah. And after camp, parents contacted us and said, My children are making friends easier, they have confidence, they're have less anxiety and depression, their behavior has improved, they're not afraid of the dark, and now they love nature. When I would try to force them outdoors to get them away from technology and they would rebel. Now they're asking me, can we plan something over the weekend that we can do as a family outdoors?

Sleepaway Camp Builds Independence

SPEAKER_00 11:49

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

So we're gonna talk specifically about camp with you, and then we're gonna talk, we're gonna apply these more generally. So if camp isn't in your budget or in your schedule right now, we're gonna talk about ways you can, you know, facilitate some of these activities on a vacation or in your city or community. But then for we're gonna focus initially on like the benefits of sleepaway camp and how it can foster so many of these qualities. Talk to me a little bit about independence and how that flourishes during a sleepaway camp.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Well, what we notice is that children often arrive at camp. So the campus for ages six to 16, and across the board from age six to 16, children are arriving at camp expecting someone to hold their hands, someone to tell them what to wear for the activity, the proper footwear, the proper clothing, to be at a certain place on the campground at a certain time. They need a lot of hand holding. And we were very surprised, especially for teenagers and preteens who needed so much hand holding. And a lot of it is because at home they're told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, and you don't allow them to fail without crushing their spirit when they do. And so at camp, if a child doesn't arrive at a certain place at a certain time, we don't make them feel bad about themselves. We help them to have the tools to be on time next time and to know what to wear and to take ownership of their camp experience. But we also have them live with the consequences of not arriving on time. Like you don't get to sit next to your friend because you didn't get on the van in time, right? So those kinds of things. But the independence, the independence of thought, hmm, what activity am I going to do? And what do I need to wear? Is it a water sport? Is it a daytime sport where it's going to be hot? Is it a cool evening sport where it's going to be cold? What kinds of things do I need to bring with me? And they're going through their mental checklist, but they also have a written checklist by their tent that they can look at. And so we've given them all the tools. We have them helping each other. And even the most shy, I can't do it, I don't want to be here, kid, develops independence within hours of arriving at camp. It really is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

That's so cool. Well, and I think too, again, this idea of kind of removing them from the environment where at school, you know, like they're beholden to the bell schedule. And like you said, there are a lot of external factors that determine what they're doing and how they're showing up to something. And so giving them just a little glimpse of a bit more open scheduling or a bit more self-determination, and then allowing them to figure out what that looks like and to cultivate the skill set they need to be successful in that situation is great.

unknown 15:03

Yeah.

Challenge By Choice & Resilience

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Let's talk about resilience. And you've touched on it a little bit with what you just shared. But what are some of the ways you see the kids foster a sense of resilience?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

A lot of the children are super afraid to fail. Some of the language that they use is I don't want to look stupid in front of the other kids, or I'm not good at that, or I don't feel well, so I can't do it. And that's really just their way of saying, I want to opt out of this activity because I'm afraid. So we practice challenge by choice. And what that is, is that we tell you what the activity is, we get you all prepared for it, and then we say, anyone who does not want to participate, you go over here with these counselors, everyone else would go over here, but we keep them within eye shot of what's happening. And we don't allow the counselors to do anything fun and as a fun substitute, it's more of you're just sitting and watching it. An observer. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

You can be an observer or an actor in this. You choose.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Exactly. And 100% of the time they say, you know what? I see this kid, they're just as afraid as I am, and they did it and they're had a great time. I want to try it now. And so I just think that the best way to develop resilience in children is to let them fail at small things. Uh let them feel the feels, be there for them, uh, help them to self-soothe rather than jumping in to comfort them and making it all better. Give them a little space to figure it out on their own, how to soothe themselves. And then if they're still struggling, you can help with that. Because one of the best gifts you can give your child is the ability to self-regulate their own emotions. They're going to need that throughout their work, their school, their relationships, and functioning in the community. So the earlier you can start developing that skill, the better. And that that's all part of resiliency, being able to get knocked down and get back up and not have it crush your soul.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yes, so well put. And I think too, I love what you said, challenge by choice. And I feel like that's a phrase families could use any, you know, in so many situations where we're saying, like, here's an opportunity, you know, and you can choose it. And in order to choose it, you may have to sit with a little bit of fear, uncertainty, you know, you may have to deal with your nerves for a minute. But if you do that, the on the other side you get this experience or, you know, this kind of a moment that might be really cool for you, and giving kids to opt in there.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

One of the things that we like to do, especially for children who are reluctant campers, meaning someone told them you have to do this. And we really don't recommend that you force a child to come to camp. That can really backfire on you. It's also puts your child in a position of managing their feelings about being someplace they don't want to be versus just experiencing camp. And then it also puts your camp counselors in a difficult position because instead of helping your child have these great new experiences, they're helping your child manage their mood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

No, it's so well put. What would you say are some of the ways to gauge that? If is it just because I could

When Not To Force Camp

SPEAKER_02 18:44

see some kids who are maybe like kind of want to do it, but they're the kind of kid who's a little bit nervous and needs a little bit of encouragement or external validation that they can do it. And then other kids who might be like, Yeah, no, I don't want to do it. I mean, those are pretty easy, right? But how do you tell on the fence sitters when it's just like they just need a little nudge?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Right. There's a difference between I don't want to go and I'm scared versus I don't want to go and I am throwing a tantrum about it. Adamant. Okay, yeah. Right. So if your child is throwing a tantrum about not wanting to go to camp, they are not ready for whatever reason. Okay. And sometimes it could be that maybe someone in their community or another family member is attending camp and they'll get to see photos and videos of that camp experience. And maybe that's all they needed is to see that to say, well, I if this person can do it, I know I can. Right. So sometimes we have one sibling will go to camp, the other sibling will not go to camp. And then two days in, after they're seeing us post the social media photos online, the other kid is like, Can I go? Yeah. And it's too late, right? So yeah, it sometimes the fear of missing out can help them motivate them to go next time, but I would not force them into the experience. It's it's a bad idea. And we even had a child you'd threaten violence over not wanting to be at camp. And then a parent said, Well, you know, camp is too far away. I'm not coming to get them. And, you know, we had to say, your child cannot stay here because they really don't want to be here. And when they're threatening violence, that puts everybody, you know, in an unsafe situation at risk.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah. I like the phrase you used when you were talking about it initially when you said they're either going to be left managing the experience or managing their mood about the experience. And I feel like that phrase can apply to so many activities, right? Where I have parents who will come and say, like, my child always loved going to dance, and lately she hasn't been loving going to dance. But a lot of it is because her worries or her, she just was feeling a lot of things and the feelings were getting in the way of the experience, right? And so she was spending all of her energy managing her mood, and that was exhausting to her. And she didn't have anything left to like manage the actual experience. And so I love that in, I mean, in the work that I do, right, I get to help kids cultivate those tools so they can manage their mood more easily and like automate that process to an extent so that they can just easily manage their mood or actively manage their mood so that they can engage with different experiences. In your setting, if you see a kiddo who's having trouble managing their mood, they're away from home, they're having a rough go, what are some of the ways you kind of encourage or help them to regulate in order to engage with the experience?

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Oh, this is a beautiful question. We take them away from the Stressor. So whether the stressor is, I didn't get picked to be part of a group, and now I don't have a partner. Then the first thing we do is walk them away from the group. And then we'll say, you know what? You have all of these counselors. Who would you like

Regulating Big Feelings

SPEAKER_00 22:18

to partner with? You actually get to choose the best partners around. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, wow, this is great. So then they partner with a camp counselor. So the point is that I want parents to remember is moving them away from the thing that is stressing them. So for example, if two children are having a conflict and you stand in front of the two children and you're having one explain what happened and then the other explain what happened, they get so wrapped up in the fight, the argument that they were having that they are not calming down, they're not able to effectively communicate, and just taking a few steps away or even further away, going for a walk, going out in the backyard, going out on your apartment balcony, that alone can de-escalate a situation because it's hard to have your nervous system calm down when you're still in the fight, mentally in the fight.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's so well put. And I think recognizing capacity, right? I think sometimes when kids are escalated like that, we want, we want to get through the situation or we need them to resolve it when we're better served by putting some space between the child in the situation or the children or whatever this, you know, whatever's going on right then, and let the resolution come a little bit later when everybody has a little bit more regulation in place.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

And you know, since 2020, children and the adults who love them have been under tremendous stressors from the COVID lockdown and the isolation brought on by that, the rapid change of technology and social change, the epidemic of loneliness, the drug epidemic. Yeah. Children came to camp and within minutes, the first thing they wanted to do was just talk about the thing that was troubling them that they felt like they couldn't tell anyone else within minutes. So we have like a 45-minute drive to camp, and children were talking with each other. Group therapy is the fastest way to feel real results. You can ask any therapist, but also Dr. Nicholas Carderas talks about in his practice how group therapy helped people with mood disorders that they were struggling with so much faster when they were in a peer group versus a one-on-one setting with their therapist. And so the children being able to talk to each other on the bus and then connecting with a camp counselor, and within hours they were telling us their entire life stories. And this was unsolicited. This was not us sitting down, okay, kids, what's bothering you? It was, hey, camp counselor, can I talk with

Kids’ Rapid Change & Safe Sharing

SPEAKER_00 25:18

you? And 25% of the youth participants, ages six to 16, expressed thoughts of suicide, actively planning their suicide. When they came home from camp, we got so many cards and letters and phone calls from parents and caregivers and grandparents who said, What did you do with my grandchild, for example? And of course, no one wants to hear that. We're like, oh gosh, what happened? And they're like, He's a totally different child, he's not afraid of the dark, he's not arguing with his siblings, he's so much happier and full of confidence. And we just we knew that it was going to work fast because I've been involved in using these techniques with adults like veterans and people with disabilities. But I thought it would take longer with children. It was even faster with children.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Yeah, it is one of the most amazing things about kids, right? Is that they have this natural like homing tendency toward optimal development. And if you can give them the tools and the opportunity or just the safe space, right, they'll find their way to what they need or how they want to grow. Or it really is an incredible thing to witness. And I hear you about the speed with which kids change. I coach kids usually for about a year. But when I worked with adults, we would be navigating some of the same tendencies and some of the same problem after years and years and years and years and years, and we're still just trying to get to the root of it or trying to help ameliorate some of the consequences of that way of thinking or that way of operating in the world for so long. And it's like with kids, if you give them the space to optimize and you're a safe space for them to engage with conversation, tell their story, kind of give themselves a narrative about what they have experienced and what they want to experience, they can shift so much.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

And you know, for parents who don't understand why a child can connect so deeply, so quickly with a stranger versus the people who love them the most, here's the thing when, and I'll give you an a real-world example. When an 11-year-old said, None of the children like me because I don't understand what their faces are telling me, because I haven't seen anybody's face in a long time. And I want to go home. So I took him to the side and I said, You know what? Not seeing faces for a long time can make it really hard to know what people are communicating with their face and with their body. But instead of going home yet, maybe in a little while, how about we try something? And he, of course, said, Okay. And so I said, I'm going to make changes

Reading Faces Post-Pandemic

SPEAKER_00 28:18

with my face and with my body, and I'm going to tell you what it means, and then we'll practice it and see how you feel. If you still want to go home after that, you can go home. I went through like a few human emotions and I practiced that with him afterward. And he said, Okay, I'm fine now. He went back and played. Children loved him after that because he was less socially awkward and you know, not standing so close, and you know, all of the things. And he had a great time. And he came home from camp like a different person, and then he taught his sister, who was struggling with the same thing, but she's older, what I taught him. That's the incredible impact of human connection.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yes. I love that so much, and and also the self-awareness. And I think it's like you said, if parents are wondering, like, why isn't my kid telling me this or what's going on? Sometimes there are things that they're worried about, maybe like making a parent feel bad, right? Or they they don't want to induce guilt in you. And I think a lot of times it's not as much of a withholding to be hurtful, especially with little kids, as it is a withholding out of thoughtfulness.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I agree with that. And here's what I've noticed when I asked children, especially the ones who talked about suicide, especially and the ones who were worried about their parents who were struggling to recover from COVID. The reason they didn't tell their parents was some of the responses they gave were, I didn't want my parents to feel bad. They are already dealing with so many things. I didn't want to add one more thing. My family doesn't talk. We're not talkers. We don't sit around the dinner table and talk like we do here at camp, you know, because we sit around tibbles and talk, we sit around campfires and talk, we walk and talk on hikes and activities, we go kayaking and we talk. And so the counselors don't have a reaction to what the kids are saying, other than compassion and empathy. But we're not saying, what do you mean you don't feel loved? Don't I show you I love you every day, I feed you, I clothe you, I take you places. We don't have those kinds of reactions. And sometimes a child wants to tell you what they're experiencing, but they don't want you to jump in and fix it. Oh, you're being bullied at school. I'm gonna go to school tomorrow. Negotiate with the kid about what they think would be the best way to solve this. And believe it or not, they'll come up with some really good answers sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Yeah. Those are such great examples. And I think the main point being it's

Teamwork That Actually Works

SPEAKER_02 31:20

normal as parents that we're gonna have those defensive responses or that we're gonna have a strong response if our kid is telling us something at school is awful. I mean, it's normal for us to want to take action, right? And so I think having a village and having a community is one of the reasons that we have the we have the opportunity when we have a village or a community to have our kids around other people who are trusted who can then help them practice articulating some of that stuff, normalize what they're feeling. So then they have more confidence to share it in other places or with parents or have a different idea on how to go about sharing it in a way that's gonna be received.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Without reaction, without an emotional reaction. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this it also touches on the idea of teamwork, both from like build your village standpoint, but also it takes a village in the camp, right, to help facilitate all these experiences, both like kid-to-kid interactions, kid-to-counselor interactions. Talk to us about how you see teamwork being a template for kids then going home and building stronger relationships with their people.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yeah. So, you know, we live in an uber competitive world, especially with the advent of social media. You always see people having the best days of their lives, right? As individuals. So when you tell a child to work as a team with their siblings, but you don't ever give them a lot of opportunity to experience teamwork in a positive way, then it's kind of hard for you to go out and do it. And I'll give you an example for my own family. I'm the youngest of five. And my parents would give us a task like, I want you to rake up all of the leaves in the backyard, bag them up, and then you can get your allowance. Everyone will get their allowance. Well, my siblings would argue first about who's gonna do what. They really didn't know how to work as a team, but my parents kept telling us, go work as a team, go work as a team. I played, well, not played, I was on a track team, and very early on I became a track assistant captain. And so I learned the importance of teamwork, and I was able to, even though I was the youngest, show my siblings how teamwork looks in action. Because a lot of times parents use words that kids don't have enough world experience to know really know what you mean. So we one of the things that we do is we tell children that we're going to a place that has a certain amount of risk: wild animals, cliffs, because we're in the mountains of Colorado, you know, heat, cold, storms, all kinds of things. And the only way that all of us are going to make it home safely is if we work together as a team. And this is what teamwork looks like. So we instill in them what we our expectations of teamwork is, how it looks, and then we go off and do it. And we give them, we immediately give them one task. So our task as a team is to get everyone on the bus in buses in 15 minutes. Now, you figure out how you're gonna make this work. Let's go, team. And you know what? They scramble, they're like, bye, mom, bye, dad, gotta go. No long goodbyes, no cries, no nothing. It's like I'm part of a team now, I gotta go. I'm responsible for the person on my left, the person on my right, the person in front of me, the person behind. I don't have time for you. We're we're moving. Yeah. So when you do that, when you explain the task, you model it for them and immediately give them an opportunity to practice it with something very small and inconsequential, and you make it okay to fail. So, like the campers who were the littlest campers, the six-year-olds, they were struggling to get on the bus with their bags and all the things, but they tried really hard. And older campers helped them. We the camp counselors didn't have to jump in. But we were very compassionate with the younger campers and saying, Oh my goodness, you tried so hard to be a good team player, but you know what? That bag is bigger than you. I can understand why you couldn't achieve this goal. But you know, high

Making Space For Fear And Action

SPEAKER_00 35:56

five for trying super hard. And they feel good about themselves, even though they failed, but they tried very hard.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Yeah. Oh, I love those examples, and that's so genius. Get on the bus, and we gotta get on the bus in 15 minutes. You gotta work together. And they're like, Oh, I don't have time to like focus on how sad I feel right now or scared. I gotta action plan, like I gotta get make stuff happen with the team.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

It's kind of like what we do in the army. So, in the in the military, I'll tell you the secret sauce. You break someone down and then you build them up. But we do it a lot gentler with kids and adults, but you you break them down in a gentle way, and then you build them up and you empower them to know that they have all the skills they need to go out and do this thing, and then you allow them to fail if they fail, retrain and go out and do it again. So I really shocked parents because I was talking to their children in a way that if they talked to them that way, it would they would start crying. So I was kind of like, you know, the nice drill sergeant. Okay, kids, this is your task. Get on the bus, 15 minutes, go team. And they want to please you, they're like, okay, you know, and and I'll tell them I used to be a staff sergeant in the army. Would you like to know what it feels like to be in the army? Okay, great. They just gave me permission to do the thing I was gonna do anyway. But if you know, you really have to be creative and compassionate. And I don't mean ordering your children around like they're little soldiers or Marines, but the matter of fact, this is what I expect from you. Yeah, we don't have time for crying, let's go. I actually told that to a kid in front of their parent, like, yeah, we don't have time for crying, let's go. Your team's waiting on you. He's like, Okay. And she's like, What? I totally expected him not to get on that bus. He did it. He did it.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah, well, and I think too, one of the things that I think I'm remembering from my own experience at different like girls go camp and you know, youth camp is the ability to compartmentalize. And sometimes you think those emotions at saying goodbye or the fear is so big you can't, you can't possibly move through it, you know. But then something invites you to, and you are able to say, like, oh, this fear can be here, right? Again, back to like not letting worry drive. This can be here, but it's not gonna get my main attention. My main attention is over here. So, like, I don't, I don't actually have time right now to worry about this or to process it more deeply. I can notice it, acknowledge it, but I'm not gonna let it be the thing that's in my line of sight because I have work to do over here.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

You know, we had a child whose parents are very outdoorsy. They love fishing and camping and hiking. And let's see, I think he was between nine and 11, and he was very fearful about everything. And

Nature Connection & Simple Camping

SPEAKER_00 39:00

his grandmother shared with me that since COVID, he became very fearful. And he wanted to go to camp, but he was afraid of it. And the parents really wanted him to get a lot out of camp so that they could experience adventure sports together as a family without a child who's who's really kind of paralyzed by fear. So he really struggled with I can't, I won't, I'll never. And one of our instructors put him in a kayak and said, I promise you can do this, and I'm gonna be next to you all the way. Will you at least try it? And for now, we're just sitting in the kayak. Would you try getting out on the water? He said, Yes. He pushed him out on the water, the counselor jumped in his kayak while another counselor was holding his the camper's boat in position. They started paddling, and that was the last time they talked about fear. And then when he came back, what our counselors were doing who were onshore was like, How was that? He goes, It was great. And they said, Do you know what you just did? And he goes, No, you were brave. Do you know what it means to be brave? No, it means being afraid, but doing it anyway. And the kid was just kind of looking up in the air, side to side, like processing that. I was brave. And then later he said, you know, we we told them the satellite phone is only for emergencies. And he said, I really want to call home and tell my mom that I was brave. And I said, This is an emergency. Let's call home.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Oh my gosh, I love it. Yes. Well, and I think again, let's talk about this a little bit too, because this is something families can replicate at home in a variety of situations, this idea of connection to nature. But nature is grounding in so many instances, right? And so if you put a kid in nature and then do something adventurous, you're benefiting from the value of like nature grounding, right? And then the adventure, and it works together in beautiful ways. So talk to me about the connection with nature that you see in these kids.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Yeah, so most of the kids came to camp with, because you know, it's Colorado, lots of people are outdoorsy, with some small amount of experience. Maybe, maybe they've gone for a hike or they've gone fishing once or twice, but none of them have, except maybe one that first year had gone camping. And so they didn't really have a strong connection to nature and didn't understand what this whole nature thing was about anyway. But when they were immersed in it, that's when it became real. And so sometimes you can do this in your own backyard, but it takes rearranging your backyard so that it's no longer a backyard, it's a campground. Or you can do this on your balcony and rearrange your balcony at your apartment so that it's now a tent on your balcony, and that just changes the perspective, even though you haven't really gone far. Yeah, but it just changes the perspective. And so when children start to feel like, do you mean I have a connection with the stars that I'm looking at? Do you mean I have a connection with the sun that I see? It's giving me vitamin D that's making me healthy. I'm getting magnesium out of the water that's controlling over 300 chemical responses in my body. What? That's a thing. Once you start making those connections for children, they might not really understand the health benefits of magnesium that they get from water, but they do understand that I'm getting 300 of something from standing in this water, from swimming in this water. And then when they get home, incredibly, they start telling

Low-Cost Paths Outdoors

SPEAKER_00 43:16

their parents, we should go swimming, because you know, mom, you might feel better if you get some magnesium in your body, or if you get some sunlight and get more vitamin D. These little ones are like little sponges, but we have to give them good water, not your not the water laden with forever chemicals, but good water. So it what I call the toxic water. If you give poor glass of water and it's got forever chemicals, that's toxic. If you are giving your child a new experience, but you're forcing it on you on them, you're not asking them. How they think and feel about it, you're not allowing them to have any input about the experience, then that's like giving them a glass of toxic water. It's it could be beneficial, but you've made it harmful and they realize that and they don't want it.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah, that's such a great analogy. And I think as we think about applying some of these things to home situations, there are going to be sometimes some hurdles, right? Because it is home and because you are the parent. But, you know, having their buy-in, trying challenging activities, finding local spaces where you can do some of these things, or like a ropes camp, or something within the sphere of your environment where you can facilitate activities that mimic some of these qualities. But like you said, it's got to be resonant with them to the point that they're bought in rather than us forcing it.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Well, you know, I'll give you an activity that you can do on every budget that can help your child take advantage of the health and social benefits of adventuring. So there are a lot of nonprofits that have low-cost events that you can look for in your community. And you can just search for nonprofit free, low-cost adventure. And you should come up with things. And especially if you or a family member has a disability of some sort, there are many programs for families that are low income or have a disability. So you might not have to create these opportunities on your own. There might be programs that already exist. Our camp is free, it's 100% donation-based from our donors and grants. So every child, every adult gets to come at no cost. We do have camp for adults, believe it or not. I love it. Because a lot of adults don't have a connection to nature. And then the other way that you can make it affordable is teaming up with people in your network, whether it's other parents at work or in your community or in your religious community and family. You can ask cousins. And so it does a couple of things. One, you can send your kids to a camp-like experience with a friend or a neighbor, and then they will come to a camp-like experience with you. And that gives you a little time to yourself, or you can do it together as families. You can rent a campground in some places for as little as $5 or $20 and just rent a campground, a camp space at a campground. If you don't have tents, you could rent them, you could borrow them, or you could just bring blankets, pillows, and make your own tent. There's so many ways you can camp out of your car. There are so many ways to get the camping experience. But there's something magical when you look up at the stars

Campfire Talks Change Families

SPEAKER_00 47:06

and there's an absence of light, there's an absence of human-made sound, and you just feel so close to nature, you feel so close to God if that's part of your belief system. And your nervous system without you attempting to meditate or doing some EFT tapping, you don't have to do anything. Your nervous system just calms down because it's in this place that's calm. Even if there's a danger of mountain lions and bears, like in our situation, uh it's just a very calming place to be, and it's away from all of your problems, all of the bullies at school, all the pressures at work. It just melts away for everyone, not just the children. And then as a family, you can work together as a team to set up the tent. Work together as a team to cook a meal, to clean up your dishes, to plan an activity like going kayaking the next day or riding bicycles. So there's all these very low-cost ways to get outside and show your child resilience and stick to itness, and that they are more capable than they think. And then here's the kicker: even for a reluctant child, I don't want to do this. But little Johnny, how would you like to be the most interesting kid at school on Monday? Tell me more, mom. Right? We did that with kids at camp. We told them before we got on the buses, you're gonna be the most interesting kid in school when you get back because you're gonna have experience that almost no one's gonna have. And they were super excited about that.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

That's fantastic. Those ideas are so, so good. It's also reminding me of the number of camping items I've seen at secondhand shops. Like I like to thrift. And there's so many, whether it's chairs or a tent or umbrella for a day outside at the beach or up in the mountains or wherever, so many really inexpensive, you know, you're gonna get it dirty anyway because you're about to go camping. So, like if somebody had a little bit of dirt on it before you, no big deal. But I think the things that you shared, like it illustrates the simplicity of it, right? Like it can be an experience orchestrated, like the camp that you run, and it could be an incredible facilitated experience. And it can also be an afternoon or a weekend in the mountains or in whatever nature setting is near you. In San Antonio, we would go spend some time out sometimes in the desert parts or in the hill country, just whatever you could get. But I think that the commonality is the space, right? It's the space from your everyday life, the space from the struggles that you're facing, and it's the space in nature where you can connect with yourself in a different way and you can connect with people, with the land around you, with your spirituality, with whatever you would find rejuvenating to connect with in that moment. In addition to nature, there's just space for it, right? Those conversations by the campfire, like you're saying, if our phone's not going off and we're not doing the laundry and we're not trying to figure out what's for dinner tomorrow, and we do have a different kind of space when we're outside.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah. And you know, around the campfire,

Problem Solving Without Amazon

SPEAKER_00 50:34

families have conversations that they don't typically have. For example, I took my future in-laws camping in the mountains of Colorado, and they had not been camping since they were children. And they were with my fiance and his brother, and they started talking about their childhood camping experiences and what they did, and how it was very different from what we did today. They felt like what the way that we did it was much more fun because we made it fun versus like we've got to do this thing by this time and let's go. Yeah, not we're gonna okay. We're on a time schedule because the sun is going to set and we need to have things buttoned up before the bears come out, or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

We're on nature's time schedule, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:24

We're on nature's time schedule, but it doesn't have to be like an angry drill sergeant, it can still be fun, and so their sons got to hear stories that they never heard before, and like, wow, mom and dad, you had a life before us. That's great, you know. And your kids really do want to have a deeper connection with you, and they don't want to see you as just the person that takes care of food, water, shelter, safety. They want to see you as a full human being, and it's something liberating, I think, when you learn that your parents have a history and that they're interesting people, and that they had a life before you were born, and this is what their life was like, and especially if you can admit your fears, your hurdles, your challenges. I don't know, didn't get to have that with my parents. And whenever I take seniors out and family members like my fiance's uncles, we do a lot of recreating, a lot of like ice fishing and kayaking together. And having those experiences with them, it's still beautiful, you know, even though I'm old enough to be a grandma myself.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

But that is beautiful. Well, and I think too, it's like you said, seeing your parent in a different setting. And we touched a little bit on problem solving when you're in nature, but when you have limited resources and you can't just Amazon the solution that will arrive between three and five that afternoon, you have to be a little bit more resourceful, right? And so tuning into that quality in yourselves, in your kids, and letting them see the confidence that they can build in their creative problem solving or see you as a creative problem solver who like actually can get by without Amazon, believe it or not, those things are also valuable too, because those skills, just like all these other skills we're talking about, they translate back into life in some really beautiful ways.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Yeah, I was just thinking that if you don't have outdoor recreation gear, no kayaks, no bows for you know, archery, no fishing rods, and no camping gear, you could say to your kids that you'd like

Let Kids Lead & Cut Toxins

SPEAKER_00 53:51

to do this experience as a family. I know some of you might not be into it, but I think it might be a little bit fun. Can we just try it this one time? And we can't afford to go out and buy this stuff. How do you think we could maybe find a tent that we could use or something we could use as a tent? Get them involved in the process as much as possible. First of all, they'll probably be shocked that you're asking them their opinion about anything because kids told us that at camp. When we asked them, okay, the task is to build a fire, to build a fire safely, and here's what that means. How should we do it? So many kids were like, You're asking me? You're the adult, and like that was the response. And we said, Well, you know what? You're really smart. I bet you can come up with 20 ways we can start a fire, and we let them problem solve how to start this fire so we can toast marshmallows and stay warm. And they built the fire, and just allowing your kids to feel like you value their intelligence, their creativity, their ability to problem solve and their skills will go a long way toward mending any difficult relationships you might have. And then the other thing that I'd really like parents to remember is when we take kids out into nature, we remove the toxins out of their life. They don't, they're not exposed to any toxins that might be in your home, like your cleaning products or mold or radon or carbon dioxide buildup, carbon monoxide buildup. They're not exposed to toxic foods. We take out all the processed foods. If we have packaged snacks, they're very healthy ingredients and very few ingredients. We give them half their body weight in ounces of water, which is difficult to do with kids because they don't like to be told it's time to have water. We take away all the sugary drinks and they don't miss it. They don't complain about it. And they love it. We get them involved in preparing meals. So we take them to a toxin-free environment, we expose them to nature, we have them moving their bodies all day long, and we have them talking to other people because their devices don't work in the places we're taking them.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Yeah, so powerful, so beautiful. I am grateful for the work you're doing. I think that there's so much enthusiasm. I'm seeing it every time you're talking about it, which I love it, but I think there's so much enthusiasm because you see what it does, right? You have a very clear indicator of the impact of these types of experiences on children and then the resulting impact on families or on adults and on families. And I think that in terms of priorities, building this in, and I'm reminded real quick: a lot of universities, if you live near a university, they'll have like an outdoor center where you can rent. There's just if you open yourself up to the opportunity, there are ways to make it happen.

Build Community & Adaptive Sports

SPEAKER_02 57:08

So instead of falling back, like you're saying, on we don't have the gear or we don't have the know-how, or we don't have this or that, once you decide to do it, corral the kids and problem solve together, how you can make it happen, right? And then prioritizing that time outside is so important.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

What we did in our community when we we started with nothing when we started this nonprofit. And I just created a video and said, This is what I want to do for our community. And people who saw that video on YouTube started making donations and they didn't even live in our part of the country. And then I went to my local police chief. He was brand new on the job. I didn't know him. I introduced myself and said, I'd like you to let me put you in a dunk tank to raise money for charity, and this is what we're gonna do with it. And he said, Yes. In fact, I'll bring friends. So he bought the chief of police, fire, EMS, sheriff, and FBI special agent. We put them all in a dunk tank. The community had great fun dunking them. I had great fun dunking them too. We raised a ton of money, and we've kept these programs going for going into our sixth year. And we started out with just children, then we did children and families, and then grandparents started coming to our events, and then they said, We'd like to have a camp for seniors, please. Yes, and so we've been teaching seniors how to paddleboard and kayak, and there are adaptive sports. So if you have a disability, if you have a mobile, stubili flexibility, if you don't have hearing, if you're blind, if you have sensory overload challenges, there's a way to adapt sports seven ways till Sunday. And in fact, a young woman reached out to me on social media and she said, I am Melissa and I'm I call myself the wheelchair explorer. And the first blind man to ever summon Everest is Eric Weinmere. And that was like kind of an instant connection because I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm friends with Eric. Well, he taught me how to hike in a wheelchair. I've never been out of wheelchair since birth, and now I want to kayak, and I know you help people learn how to kayak. Not only did I help her learn how to kayak, but I'm a sponsored adventure sports athlete, and I reached out to my sponsors. They gave her $3,500 worth of gear, including her own adaptive kayak. Oh my gosh. And we taught her how to kayak with a team of volunteers in our community. So when you put your minds together as a community, you can do incredible things. So you can fundraise for these opportunities. And our local police force and first responders viewed this program as one that they would recommend children who are at risk to attend. And that's why they were so willing to go into a dunk tank. So anyone can do this in their community. And you might be thinking, I don't know anybody. I didn't know our police chief. I just walked up to him, a random stranger at a golf course, and said, Hey, I need your help.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

So do you think, yeah. Well, and I mean, I think too, the thing that I've found in my experience is that if people are in this line of work that you're in, they are enthusiastic about what they're doing, as same as you are, right? And they are wanting you to come. I know in our local community, we have something called Wasatch Adaptive Sports. And they help people of all abilities to bike and ski. And so my grandpa, at the time, he was 94 and he had limited mobility. He used to love biking, would go outside all the time, and he was taught, he would talk about how he just couldn't do the stuff he used to be able to do. You know, like at 94, he just was limited. He couldn't do the stuff he used to love. And initially, I got him a little like pedal bike for the living room, you know, for him to use, but it's not the same as going outside. So eventually I found this wasat adaptive

Foraging, Wildcrafting & Micro-Adventures

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

sports. And it was amazing. When I, I mean, I reached out to them and I'm like, you know, they have limited income. I'm like, do I need to pay for him? Like, what do we need to do? And they're like, it's free. Just bring him. And I was like, he's 94. You know, I'm listing off all the reasons why I think this is gonna be super challenging for him. And they're like, just bring him. We figure it out. You know, we have people who do this every day for all kinds of people. Just bring him. So I made his appointment. And the look on his face when he got on that bike and could pedal. It had been decades since he had pedaled on the bike. And he, it was a, you know, a recumbent. So he's sitting down. They fitted it to him. And it felt very safe because they had, you know, like the strap that went with they could hold on to him, so he couldn't get too far away. And they were like, Blaine, slow down, Blaine, Blaine, slow down a little bit. You know, he just like took down the trail. I'm like ready to keep up with him. But it was so incredible just to see, again, the generosity of the people helping him because they were cheering for him. There's all these guys there, you know, they each had their own client they were working with, but they were all stopping the chair from the 94-year-old who's like doing loops around this park. And again, I was like, Well, how much do I need? They're like, it's this is free. You just bring him. And they're like, How many appointments do you want to make? You know, and I think that if, like you said, if you look for it, a lot of times there's super generous, big-hearted people who just want to help you have the experience. And it all it takes, all it took was me overcoming my fear of reaching out for him to have that day.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Often, if you reach out to like kayaking clubs or archery clubs, and you just say, I don't have any money, I don't have any equipment, but I have a child or a senior or myself. Yeah, I've been wanting to learn this sport. Is there anyone who has any old equipment that I could buy? Almost always, someone will say, I have something so old, I wouldn't even sell it to you. You can just have it. Or they'll say, We don't have anything you can buy, but you can come to our events and we'll let you borrow some equipment. Yeah. So there's if just be creative. There's so many ways to get outside in an adventure, and you can do simple things. Like I have an episode on my New Normal Big Life podcast about creating dandelion gummies, and children love this activity. You go out and you pick dandelions, what we think of as weeds, but they're filled with vitamins and micronutrients, and you make dandelion gummies, and it's a very low-cost activity. You might spend, I don't know, ten dollars, and that includes the molds, and then you make these gummies together, and then you can eat them and enjoy them as a family, and you introduce your children to foraging, and it's just a beautiful way to enjoy nature together that's very low cost, and you can download the recipe from the show description.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

Yeah, I'm I wrote that down. I love I love foraging, I'm not very good at it, so I have to be kind of cautious.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

But Danny Lions. Oh, I tell you how to get started in that episode, also all the things you need to know. So we we cover foraging and wildcrafting, how that's different. It's using natural materials to make something else, to craft something out of it. So, if for viewers who can see this episode, if you look in the over this shoulder, I guess it's my left shoulder. I've got some branches that were in our forest that would become kindling in a wildfire. So we wanted to get rid of them. So we just brought them indoors, attached little airplant holders to it. And now we have this beautiful branches and air plants. And those are things you can do with your children. It's very low cost. You're helping to clean up the forest floor. And in a lot of places, you can pay $5 for a permit, and you can go forage in state parks and county parks and even national parks. You can pay $25 and forage for your own Christmas tree that you get to cut down as a family. And you're doing a service because the park would have to pay their staff to go in and remove that tree so that the other trees around it can spread their canopy. So you're actually doing a service by foraging for that tree.

Where To Find Antoinette

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

I love it. Well, that was a perfect segue into how can people learn more about you. Now I'm like everybody's gonna be on your podcast now. So tell us, yeah, tell us more about how people can connect. This has been lovely. I could talk to you all day long. How can people find out?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

So much, Lindsay. I love it if you'd start listening to New Normal Big Life on 10 Plus platforms wherever you get your podcast. And why this show is different is that we don't just tell you all these wonderful things and then in your busy schedule, you have to go figure out how to do it. In every episode, there's a step-by-step plan to practice what those medical experts or I maybe through my research and experience, but most of the time I'm interviewing MDs and other medical experts about your biggest health challenges. You can also submit your challenge to the show, and we'll find an expert to help you find answers and then cover that for you. We also have an ebook that publishes all of the great takeaways, like how to improve your cognition and prevent Alzheimer through using uh so sorry, it's late in the day and I've had a brain injury. So I'm drawing a blank, how to use uh creatine monohydrate to prevent Alzheimer's just five grams twice a day. So all of these little tips and takeaways you can get for free. Uh there's also nnbl.blog. And if you sign up for our losed letter, you'll get those tips in your inbox every week. And you'll also have access to download all of our old step-by-step plans and our ebooks, our current and future e-books. Amazing. And it's all free.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

Thank you so much, Antoinette. This has been such a joy to connect with you today. I again am grateful for the work you're doing in the world. And thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me, Lindsay. This has been fun. Take care. Thanks for

Closing & Listener Support

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

listening to the Stress Nanny. If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to share it with a friend who could use a little extra calm in their week. And if you have a minute, I'd love for you to leave a review. It helps other parents find the show and join us on this journey. For more tools and support, head over to www.thestressnanny.com. Remember, you don't have to do stress alone. Together we can raise kids who know how to navigate life with confidence and ease. Until next time, take a deep breath and give yourself some grace.