Ep 210: Why Buyer's Remorse Is the Most Important Financial Skill Kids Can Learn

Money stress has a way of leaking into everything, our sleep, our relationships, and even the way our kids learn what “normal” looks like at home. I’m joined by Lori Atwood, CFP and founder of Fearless Finance, to talk about what changes when financial planning is truly fiduciary and priced in a way regular families can actually use. We dig into why “free” advice often isn’t free at all, how commission and assets-under-management models can quietly shape recommendations, and how an hourly approach can give you a clearer, more neutral path forward.

We also get real about the emotional side of personal finance: shame, guilt, and the comparison trap that social media amplifies. Lori shares her definition of real prosperity and her five fundamentals that create financial security: spending less than you earn, keeping an “oops” cash buffer, building a true emergency fund, saving at least 15% for retirement, and managing consumer debt with a payoff plan. If you’ve ever felt paralyzed by money anxiety or told yourself you’re “not good at money,” this conversation offers a calmer, more workable way to start.

Because this is The Stress Nanny, we bring it back to parenting too. We talk about modeling money habits, why kids learn more from our reactions than our lectures, and how to set teens up with developmentally appropriate first steps like a checking account and debit card. One of my favorite insights is how buyer’s remorse, in small stakes moments, teaches value and priorities better than any app ever could. If this helps, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more parents can find practical support.

To learn more about Fearless Finance, visit the website and use code LindsayMiller for $50 off your first session. 

You can also find Lori on Instagram, Facebook or LinkedIn.

Lori Atwood is the founder and CEO of Fearless Finance and a CFP® professional.  Lori created Fearless Finance to make expert, fiduciary, hourly financial planning accessible to everyone with no sales, no minimums, and no judgement. Lori’s been in finance for over 25 years starting in investment banking, asset management and private equity before starting Fearless Finance in 2016.

Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and  host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks  and playful laugh. When she's not cheering on her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using  her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes. 

To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here. 

To review the podcast click here.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Welcome to the Stress Nanny, the podcast where we help kids and parents build calm, confidence, and connection. I'm your host, Lindsay Miller, Kids Mindfulness Coach and Cheerleader for Busy Families Everywhere. Each week we'll explore simple tools, uplifting stories, and practical strategies to help your child learn emotional regulation, resilience, and self-confidence, while giving you a little more peace of mind too. I'm so glad you're here. My guest today is Lori Atwood. She's the founder and CEO of Fearless Finance and a CFP professional. Lori created Fearless Finance to make expert fiduciary hourly financial planning accessible to everyone with no sales, no minimums, and no judgment. Lori's been in finance for over 25 years, starting in investment banking, asset management, and private equity before starting Fearless Finance in 2016. Lori, I'm so excited for this conversation. Thank you for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Thanks for having me.

Why Hourly Fiduciary Planning Exists

SPEAKER_01 1:19

I have a million questions for you, but one of the things that I love about your business is just how you make, like we just said, financial planning accessible for anyone. And sometimes there can, it can feel like there's a barrier to entry, right? Whether it's knowledge, whether it's knowing which platforms to utilize, which accounts are going to yield the most for you. So help me get a sense of how you got into this, like where you saw that gap in the market and then why you wanted to help fill it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, let me tell you the origin story of this. So I had my daughter right at the fall of Lehman Brothers in 2008. And I was in doing, for the sake of collect of time, let's just say it, I was working in private equity. I was at a small fund. And my husband was like, you know, you always wanted to stay home with her, and your bonuses are going to be nothing for the next couple of years. So why not go ahead and do it? And I did. And we both agreed that it would be okay to kind of tighten the belt for a couple of years to kind of do that. And while I was home with her, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next. I just wanted to be home with her until she started kindergarten, you know, and then I would go and do something else. And I wanted to work for myself. And I started doing these small videos, what we would call reels now, but back then there wasn't anything. Doing these reels about parenting, how to detangle hair, how to deal with a bully, how to do these things. And I interviewed experts about it. And what I realized was that the reels were great. They had great information, but they were very boring. And so I thought, okay, I need to test different formats of how to make the reel interesting. And I need to test them on myself so I don't waste other people's time. So I called up everyone I knew and I said, Can I give a free seminar on personal finance and videotape myself? And so I went around to yoga studios and churches and preschools and everyone who would have me. And I did that. And then people came up to me and they said, Do you take clients?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

And I did. I started out doing advice like at a coaching level. And then the next year I went and got my CFP and got fully regulated. And that was when Fearless Finance was born. And I could have at that point taken the path of doing assets under management, which is what a lot of people do. But I said to myself, the people who really need advice, they want to pay in a way that they understand. They want to pay by the hour, like they pay their plumber. They want to do that. And so I figured I would take a shot and see if it had legs, if you will. And that was 10 years ago.

Advisor Fee Models Explained Clearly

SPEAKER_01 4:15

So fantastic. And explain again for people who aren't familiar in terms of like assets under management, what that means. So if you're thinking to yourself right now as you're listening, like I'm not sure what, you know, which type of financial advisor I have, how would they differentiate and how would they know?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

That's a great question. So the first type, you don't pay for his or her services and you go in and see them. And chances are they're selling you products that make them money in commissions on the back end. The other way is what I just referred to as assets under management. Other people might call it a wrap fee. They may also call it fee-based, which is murky at best. And what that means is that if you give them$100,000 to manage, they take 1% of it, whether it gains money or loses money. They're still taking 1% of it and investing it. And you don't have the control over it anymore. We don't do any of those things. We give people in the asset accumulation stage of life, usually 28 to 55, the advice, the fiduciary advice they need. Fiduciary means we have your best interests at heart that they need for their finances. So, in other words, if you're in an assets under management situation and you've got a bunch of money parked with somebody, and then you're you say to you and your spouse are like, well, we don't mind having a vacation home. That person's gonna do his or her best to talk you out of it. Because when you take that money out, you're taking money away from him or her. So they can't be fully fiduciary in that sense because they're not really thinking about whether you want the beach house or not. We can't. Because what we want you to do is get to your goals. Because we believe that if that the more people in our world that are financially secure and feel confident about their finances, the better they are as community members, as spouses, as parents, as children, as everything. So that's it.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, I love that. And I think one of the things that's important, especially as we're talking about this with our kids, or as we have our college-age kids. I remember when I was in college and I had a friend who was a certified financial planner, but he was working, you know, for a fee-based company. And so he's only selling me certain products. I had just got my first job. My husband was still in school, but we're like, okay, it's time to start building wealth, right? It's time to start being a little bit more optimistic and not just paying the rent every month in our little college apartment. And so we were trying to set up our IRA and different things. And he's like, hey, I have this really great product, this like insurance annuity for you. You know what I mean? And I was like, oh, you know, this is like nails on a chalkboard for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Well, it was like I was feeling at the time, like, oh, this is a, you know, I felt grown up, right? It's my first job. It's my first like paychecks coming in. And I'm like, oh, this is gonna be cool. And as I was talking with him about it, I thankfully I have parents who, you know, have have offered financial education for my whole life. And so I kind of checked in with them. I'm like, hey, you know, we're getting ready to invest. And they're like, great, way to go. I'm you know, so proud of you for that. And I started talking about what I was investing in, and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like this is, you know, this is not a great idea. I think the IRA is great, but let's take another look at this. What are you trying to do? And you know, this is the end result of that. And one of the things that is so striking is like when you come to someone like you who has, like you said, the person's best interest in mind, there's so many options, right, for meeting your financial goals. And there's just like myriad ways to get there. But if you're if you're just working with someone, and my friend was great, you know, and you know, trying to help people out in the way that he wanted to, but there was definitely, you know, a big financial incentive for him to sell me that product. And at the time, I just didn't recognize and didn't know when we didn't end up going with that product. And I switched my IRA a couple years later because it was feeling a little dicey. But one of the things that was really important at that time was another voice, right? Like and like what you guys offer, this like more neutral perspective around like what this investment is going to mean for you in the future, like why it might sound great now, why down the road it might not be the best choice. Close electrons. Yeah. And when we're in those relationships with fee-based or other types of investment advisors, it's like you said, that's not what we're getting, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

No, that's right. And I'm glad that you got that extra voice there that said, hey, wait a second. An annuity for somebody in what sounds like your 20s or early 30s.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yes, my early 20s. I was 21.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Might not be the right way to go. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Just like the value of what you can bring in those conversations for adults who are navigating that for the first time. And we'll talk about this in a little bit. For adults who are recognizing maybe the importance of you call it financial adulting, right? And maybe they're at a different pace than what other people are and they're feeling a little self-conscious about it. But again, you can bring that neutral perspective, the non-judgment, and just be like, okay, this is where we're starting from. Like, where are we headed and what do we need?

Shame And Anxiety Around Money

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Exactly. Exactly. And the key, you said it in my intro about no judgment, is really it's not a throwaway comment, it's a real comment because there's so much guilt and shame and embarrassment and all kinds of other negative emotions tied to finance. And what they do is they hold people back and they paralyze people to either one getting the help they need or two, make solving the problem, whatever it is. And so if we can remove some of the obstacles, remove some of the shame and the embarrassment, we're going halfway down the road there.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

So it's critical that people have a place where they can go and they can be heard and they don't have to feel judged. It's very hard now with social media, with all of these distribution channels of what you're supposed to be at some time of life and what you're supposed to be driving and living in and wearing and all of that. And there are a million reasons why we should question it, but financially, it's just it absolutely requires questioning. And what I like to say to people is if you have my five fundamentals, you're prosperous. And I don't really care what you drive, and I don't really care what you're wearing. That's what makes you prosperous is that security and not whatever's on your Instagram reel of whatever vacation, blah, blah, blah, that you were on. That's just clouding the picture. That is not prosperity. And I guarantee you, a lot of the people making those reels are not what I would call financially prosperous. You know, they're highly leveraged, they have a lot of debt, they're doing whatever, whatever it is. So prosperity is very different.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah, I want to get into those. I want to highlight what you said though, because I think here on the Stress Nanny podcast, we talk about emotional regulation a lot. And I think that it's really essential that we pay attention to those feelings of anxiety, those feelings of shame, the feelings that we have around money. Because, and I'm sure this is something that you talk about also, but like when our money emotions are the thing driving or our subconscious patterns around money emotions, the discomfort often causes us to put money at a distance, or you may maybe put our head in the sand, right? Or just be unable to sit in that place of shame or anxiety that you talked about. And that's where mindfulness can really come in handy, right? Because we're like, okay, I'm feeling shame right now, right? Or I am feeling extreme discomfort at reconciling where I'm at with where I want to be, or I'm feeling like I had a plan and it's not go, you know, it's just whatever it is in your human story. But the emotional part, don't let the emotion use your mindfulness to work with the emotion. So it doesn't hold you back from the financial goals you want to work toward, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah, and I would add to that that it's not misused, right? Because many, many times, I don't know what the number is, but it's a high number. Many, many times, the thing that that the you or the the client thinks is so embarrassing. It's really a nothing burger. And honestly, it's true. And what I say to people all the time, and I put it in slides when I do seminars, and I'm gonna say it right now, which is that almost everything with very few, very specific instances is fixable, it's all fixable if you're willing to do what needs to be done to fix it, and that second part is not to be dismissed. That's the most important thing. You can sit in your shame or you can fix it.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah. Yeah. And again, like you're saying, the shame spiral is going to have an impact, whether you like address it or not, right? Like you're saying, it's like it's gonna touch all the things. And so, as hard as it is, and I love the way you phrase that, it's a nothing burger. As hard as it is to maybe sit in some of those moments, being like, actually, okay, I just need to, I need to sit in it for a minute, right? And then contacting somebody like you who's a neutral, that's right, non-tentional party to say, Hey, I need you to help me figure out a way out. And like you said, you'll be like, oh, there's five ways out of this. Let's figure out which one's gonna work best for you.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

That's right. And typically that is true, like I said, with very, very few exceptions. And you have to be willing to do what, you know, if you will take your medicine on it. But for a reduction of money stress, it's usually a pretty low price to pay.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Because money stress it affects everything, especially if you're in a relationship. It can be, unfortunately, it can be the unwinding of that relationship in the worst case.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

So it's important to not, I don't know in what instance burying your head ever works, but it definitely does not work with finances. Totally.

Five Fundamentals Of Financial Prosperity

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Let's circle back to those principles because I want to make sure we dive into those. And and I think as we talk about it, if we can touch on what that's like from uh an adult perspective, right? But then also what are some of the ways we weave these in as we're teaching our kids about money? Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

So the first, let me go hit the five, and then I really want to hit that modeling for children too.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah.

Modeling Money Calm For Kids

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So the five things are number one, and it's by far the most important. It's up here, and everything else is down here, which is that you spend less than you earn each month, period. And there's not a lot of nuance to that. There's not a lot of ifs, ands, and buts. You need to spend within your means. Some people call it spending within their means. That's number one. Number two, do you have two to five thousand dollars, depending on the size of your household, in cash, for the oopsies in life, the rainy day events, the car repairs, the dental work that needs to be done and not paid for by insurance? That's number two. Number three is you have an emergency savings, which is three to six months of your expenses for a total loss of income, not for the oopsies in life. So a total loss of income is usually due to one of three things. Obviously, job loss, some sort of health or medical issue that doesn't allow you to work, and divorce. Those are the big bankruptors out there now. So the fourth thing is that you are saving at least, right? I'm giving you a floor. Anything more is great. At least 15% to a retirement account somewhere. So that could be your employer is matching 4%, you're doing 11%, it could be any number of permutations. And then the fifth thing is that you're managing consumer debt, that your credit cards are paid off in full, or if not, you've got a plan to pay them all off. If you've got those five ticked, you are prosperous. Congratulations. You're absolutely prosperous. Yeah. And so now let's take on that other discussion that you you started about modeling for children. And people ask me this all the time. How do I model money? Good money habits. Here's the thing the children are like sponges, right? They only know what they see. You can tell them something 87 times, but they're only gonna know what they see. And so if you get like this the moment anyone mentions the name of your bank, they'll feel that. If every time you go to the ATM machine and look at the receipt, you freak out and you're in a miserable mood for the next half hour, that's what they're gonna see. If you and the other partner in the house are constantly fighting over finances, that's what they're gonna see. So there won't be any chance, no matter how many allowances you put into place and how many apps you use, you're not going to overcome the actual modeling. So, how do we fix it? Well, we reduce stress for the adults in the household. That's where we start. And so, this is the thing that I say to people, and they never expect someone like me to say this. They never expect the CFP to finance my whole career. The most important thing for your finances is your happiness. Period. That's it. There's no magic. If you're unhappy with your house, your relationship, your body, your job, you are going to bleed financially. Because you're either going to be self-medicating or self-appeasing or doing whatever it is, making bad decisions, you're gonna bleed financially. So the first thing I'm looking for as a financial advisor is how do we fill whatever gap is in this person's life to get that person some happy? Because I know that's gonna solve the other stuff. If you hate your job, let's get out of it. So again, that runs right in parallel on the modeling for the children. If you're in a miserable job because you think you have no other choices, because oh my gosh, what if we don't make as much money? They're seeing that too. So the first thing I do when I sit down with clients is I figure out is there a big gap? Is there a fundamental or systemic thing going on here? Sometimes there isn't. And then we can fix it from there.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Those are great. I I love that. Just try to figure out like what is the block to happiness and use that the breadcrumbs to where your finances might be a little bit off or where you may be overcompensating or overdoing something because you're not filling yourself up here.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

That's it. My wealthiest clients drive rickety old cars, live in very simple homes, and they're thrilled, they're happy. And sometimes that's a personality type, and other times it's a learned behavior, whatever it is. But the contentment, that should be the greatest, that's the highest goal. Everything else will come from that.

Helping Teens Start Financial Independence

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, that's such a great way to think about it. One of the things I'm curious about, and I I have uh for context, a 16-year-old. So I have a junior in high school. So we're we're to the phase right now where we're starting to bridge some of the things, right? Where it's like the it was a parent shared account, and now you know, now we're looking at, okay, like what's on the horizon? What are the more individual ones we can use to start building your credit and those kind of things. At that phase, what are some of the things you recommend for people as their kiddos are just taking those first steps? Like I'm looking for the sustainable, the developmentally appropriate, right? Like the financial steps that are gonna set her up for long-term success. And hopefully we've been like practicing those at home, you know, in large measure, like you're saying, we're not just like launching her and hoping she she'll magically overnight pick it up. But, you know, if some of the core skills are in place, what are some of the ways that you encourage parents to like help those initial first independent financial steps to happen?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

So I myself have a senior in high school.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

She's 18. And so when she hit ninth grade, I got her a high school checking account. In the same bank, I had my business accounts because I I don't really like our household bank. You could put it whatever bank you want. And she has an allowance and she works. And because her school, her high school doesn't have a cafeteria, we pay for two lunches a week. And I transfer that money on the first or second of the month when I remember to do it. And she has a debit card. And she can go ahead and use that. And I had to explain to her what a debit card was because she had one of those kind of copper cards or green light cards or whatever. Where and so she was used to mommy filling the card up. And I'm like, guess what? Mommy's done filling the card up. And she I had to sit and explain to her. I'm like, I used to fill that card up, but now it just links to your bank account. So you have to decide if you have enough money. We downloaded the app and she could see it and she deposits her little checks. She works at her gym. Okay. So yeah. So she has all of that. So she's learning all of that. But the most important thing is that the child learns what buyer's remorse is. They must learn how to value things, whether they're doing it with a debit card or they're doing it with something else. These are that's all icing on the cake. That's way down the line. Let me give you an example. When I don't know, I want to say third or fourth grade, third or fourth grade, the somewhere between, we went away with a family. We always travel with it, have a daughter, our daughter's age. She doesn't get allowance. My kid has always got an allowance. And they went into a little souvenir shop, and the other girl was like, Oh, here's this little red stuffed animal, and I really want it. And they used to just pay for whatever she wanted. And I'm like, okay, well, that comes out of allowance. If you want it, you can get it. So she bought it. The next day she comes in holding the thing and she's like, Why did I do this? I don't want this. And I'm like, You're mine now. Now you're mine. Now that you understand buyer's remorse and you understand the link between the green dollars going out of your account and this thing that you don't really like, you will always be able to make those trade-offs in your mind. And that is what allowance is for. And that is what the actual carrying of cash is for. That's what you want your kid to go to college with.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

I love that so much. And I am on the same page with you about allowance. Like kids need to be able to be practicing spending so that they know what it's like. But I had never thought about it like that. So that they can understand buyer's remorse. So that's like a core skill that they can take it launching into the world. That's fantastic. And again, it's like with the emotional part. As someone who works with families on emotional intelligence, right? A lot of times we want to try to save our kids from those moments, right? And if it's something we know they're gonna have buyer's remorse about, our inclination is maybe to say, like, you're gonna exactly you're gonna, you're not gonna want to have that tomorrow. You're not getting that, or don't get that. And so giving them the opportunity while they're under our roofs, right, to have those moments where we can then guide the learning after, as uncomfortable as it is to be like, you're gonna spend$37 that you spent a month and a half earlier.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

It's definitely uncomfortable. You know, they've had haircuts that have been uncomfortable too. They were like, you're gonna regret that haircut. Absolutely, yeah. But the idea of value is precious because I don't want her doing that at 25 with a Porsche. Yes, yes, I want her doing it at eight or nine. With the little red stuffed animal. Yes, and so that's the key because money and the ability to use the debit card and the ability to understand your checking account, those are great skills. Whatever, they're way downstream from managing your money. Your money is about valuing things and making sure your money is directed toward your priorities. That's what it's about. Anyone can give you a checking account, that's thus easy.

Teaching Value Through Buyer’s Remorse

SPEAKER_01 26:00

I love that. Okay. Speaking of valuing your priorities, we're when we're talking about the cost of raising children, and this is a shift, right? So instead of teaching our kids how to use money, this is like the actual cost of raising kids. It's pretty high. So navigating the different costs associated with kids, what are some of the things you share with families around that? What are some of the things you encourage them to prepare for when kiddos are young? Walk us through your advice there.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yeah. I the first thing I say to people is I am not in the family planning business. That is not my skill set. I don't do that for a living. Okay. So when people come to me and they're like, I don't think we can afford another child. And my answer to them is that you can afford what you want. Are you willing to make the sacrifices for another child? And then when I outline what the sacrifices are, they can make an informed decision. It's okay as an answer. It's okay with me to say, no, I'm not willing to make those sacrifices. Fabulous. That's a well-thought-out decision. But it's not about, again, it's not about affording. It's about how is everything in your life pointed at your priorities and your values? The money's just a way of keeping score. People assign too much to money. It's just not that important. Right. And so, if, say, for example, I don't know, working, owning your own business is a value, or retiring early is a value, or being home at five when your kid kids are home from active, whatever, if all any of those things are a value, that's what I'm going to point everything at. It's no different here. But if your value is to send the kid to XYZ private elementary school, middle school, and high school, you better be working till nine at night because we can't afford it otherwise. But I want you to make that decision. I don't want it to just happen to your family. And so the first thing I always say about how much does it take to raise a child is what are we doing? What matters? Where do we live? What schools do we go to? What are we thinking for college? If college, what is all of that? Now, if you have a kid with special needs, that's a different story. And there is a whole lot of different economic issues related to that. But if you don't, then the question is, what are you expecting? What if your kid doesn't have the Ug boots that everybody else has? Is that not going to work for you or the kid? Then that's different. So it's not that I insist on putting everything right back into the client's lap, but it's it's a decision that has to be made by the adults in the household.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah. That's a great way of looking at it. And being able to get clarity on those values and priorities, that's a service, also, right? Having someone ask those questions you just asked and really putting things into a logical space so that you can make the decision both from very pragmatic, but also an emotional, right? Because our values can be emotional. So, okay, these are the emotional tethers I have, or these values are the ones that are most resonant with me. Here are the resulting financial decisions, or here are the resulting implications of those values. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yes, that's exactly right. And so I do a lot of work, we do a lot of work helping people understand what the values and the goals of the household are because you've no idea how many couples, maybe you do, how many couples come to me and they've never discussed whether a private school or public school is what they, you know, one of them went from to private school, one of them went to public school, and they feel strongly, but they've never discussed it. You know, or they really must have this very this certain house that is in this certain place. I'm like, well, what's the school district? I don't know. You don't? You better know. So there's same with daycare and the early, because children are like barbells financially, right? There's the early financially, there's the early daycare and child care, and then they get cheaper for a while, and then there's college. It's a great way of so yeah, you're getting a little insight into my brain here, but I love it. So you need to be ready for that. And a lot of people are having children later, and what does that mean? Well, that means that the last one may be going through MIT when you want to retire. So we've got to think all that through.

The Real Cost Of Raising Kids

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yeah. Yeah. I love the way you phrased that. And I think that in terms of having those conversations, again with the mindfulness, sometimes it's discomfort, right? That's holding us back from the conversation. And sometimes it's just a lack of awareness because we didn't think it would be an issue, right? But then once we are willing and able to dive into the conversations with our loved ones, like partner, kiddos, whoever, you know, who's ever a stakeholder in the decision, when we're able to engage and deal with whatever emotions are coming up for us at that time, that's when we can get productive, right? Like that's when we can identify values. And sometimes those emotions are telling us what's important, right? If we feel a twinge about something or we're feeling really hesitant, those are signals that, like, oh, this is important to me. And it doesn't mean in some instances, maybe we like throw our hands up in the air because that discomfort is too much for us to talk through. And then we get to the point though, where we've practiced monitoring our emotions and acknowledging and processing that we can say, oh, that discomfort right there, that was a signal, right? That's giving me information, and I can communicate that information in this conversation in a more neutral way than if we just like lose it at the first sign of discomfort.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Definitely. And I think in addition, I mean, I'm all on board with what you're saying about mindfulness for sure. And I think in addition to that, in the adult relationship in the family, because this will transmit to the children regardless, if both adults feel that they have a safe place to land with whatever the thing is. I must have private school, I must retire to 50, whatever it is, then we can get some really constructive conversation going. When somebody's unsure of what the outcome is going to end up being, that's when I find we have real trouble delineating or specifying priorities for the house, for the household.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah, that's interesting. Can you give us an example?

SPEAKER_00 33:08

If there's tension in the relationship, for whatever the reasons, whatever the reasons, you know, and there's some shame or there's a power struggle. Because a lot of times there there might be somebody who makes this much and somebody who makes this much. And they both take on totally different roles in the household. And trust me, it's not tied to gender. And the person who makes less is like, well, I think junior should go to private school. Are they feeling funny, as you say, a signal about saying that? Do they feel that they have a safe place to land when they put their opinion out there if they're the one who makes less? Or does the person who make more have is he sort of more equal than all the other equals, if you will, right? First among equals. That's what they that's what they said in the Roman Emperor said. All right. So that creates a place that's not as safe to land. And so I'm already having to deal with that to get to what I want, the gold nuggets underneath, which is I grew up in private school and I think that junior needs to go to private, whatever that is.

Couples Money Tension And Power Dynamics

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah. That's a great, that's such a great insight because you know, it's not uncommon, like you're saying, for there to be that disparity and for there to be a disconnect around whose decisions carry more weight. And so if there's not the opportunity for a clearer discussion, then yeah, like some pretty significant roadblocks because when we aren't safe or free to say what we think, that's when we get resentment bubbling up, right? And maybe we say what we think we need to say in that moment, but if it's not what we really think, and we are then having to deal with this discomfort of realizing, like, I can't actually say what I think, or my perspective or opinion isn't as valued as the other person's. I mean, those are pretty hairy relational moments to sift through, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Yeah, absolutely. And money will dredge all of that up. All of it. So again, don't blame the money. The money has no feelings, it does not care. But the topic of money will dredge all of that stuff up.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Totally. And I was listening one of the podcasts that I listened to the other day, where they were talking about like a lot of times when we feel that discomfort around money, we say things like, I'm not good at money, or I've never been good at money, but it's the emotion we don't want to feel that's actually the thing that we're not good at, maybe in that moment. It's actually like emotional regulation that may be the skill set we need because the money is neutral, right? Like you're saying, the money is just there and it's a kind of a mirror back to us of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah. And it's so much easier to say I'm not good at money than it is to deal with what the underlying issue is. And I have a lot of couples who come to me, and usually it's the woman, but it doesn't have to be the woman, can't get the partner to couples therapy, but she can get him to me. And I am not trained in therapy. I have no such training. I have I'm not regulated to do any of that. But at least we can get the issues out on the table, and maybe then they can get the help they need.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah. Or in the moments, again, not I'm not trying to like place you here as a therapist. Sometimes what you need is a clear reflection back of what is being seen, right? And then sometimes for especially the person who's maybe at an imbalance in that relationship, the validation goes a long way. So even if it's not that you're employing therapeutic tactics to navigate the situation, sometimes just the neutral reflection or the neutral observation goes such a long way.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

It goes a really long way. Trust me, I'm not employing therapeutic tactics. It's not my bag. But I do reflect what I'm hearing and seeing. And I'm very direct about it because beating around the bush is not helping anybody. So I think that again getting to the underlying issue is really what we're after to get to the goals.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah. It's so interesting to think about it from that perspective. And I think that in different moments, the ability to sit with the distance between the goal and the present circumstance, it requires like growth mindset, which we talk a lot about here on the podcast. And you mentioned again at the beginning, circling back to that idea of like non-judgment, which I think is one of the most therapeutic approaches we can take to any situation. So even if you're not bringing, you know, like a bag of therapy tricks, you sitting in non-judgment with someone and offering them a little olive branch of hope. I mean, that's gonna go a long way to, you know, absolutely ameliorating the discomfort, the shame, the guilt, and then also the sense of disconnect between parties. And so those things taken together with this normalization of like financial surprise or upheaval, or I think some of the most challenging moments in our house have been when it's like, this isn't what I planned, right? Or this isn't the way I thought this would go, or I didn't anticipate needing resources for this, right? And in those moments, it is easy for us to blame ourselves. There's so much value in doing the best that we can, like you said, in all of those areas that you talked about, and making sure we have those five things in place or working on, but then also being so gentle with ourselves in the moments that are unexpected, right? When we don't, we didn't anticipate something and we're navigating it, but we're doing our best with the support that we need and with new goals in place.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

And as I said before, most everything is fixable as long as you, and that may be plural, are willing to do whatever needs to be done to fix it. And so what I find is once we've kind of distilled things down to what the actual goals are, and both adults in the relationship are on board, the implementation goes a lot quicker and easier. So, you know, it it feels less like medicine and more like hope at that point, and that's exciting.

Where To Find Fearless Finance

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Yeah, definitely. Well, this has been so interesting, and I have appreciated all of the wisdom that you've shared. I'm excited for our listeners to learn more about where they can find you and more about your work. So can you share with us how to do that?

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Oh, thank you so much. So everybody can find us at fearlessfinance.com and they can fill out contact us form. And if you put Lindsay Miller in the promo code, I'll know that you came in through this podcast and we'll give you$50 off your first meeting. You can find us on all the usual socials at Fearless Finance. And I think LinkedIn might be Fearless Hyphen Finance, but everything else is Fearless Finance. And essentially, when you fill out one of those forms, you would get one of our associates who will reach out to you in one business day. You set up a free consult, a first consult just to make sure the fit is right and the chemistry is right and all of that. And then you can get underway. And we can we can help you with a full plan, but also if you have a very specific issue, hey, I just inherited some money, or hey, I've got this basement that's just flooded, whatever it is. So the key is that you do reach out and get the help.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Yeah, totally. And just speaking to your website, and thank you for sharing all of that information. Like you have your planners with their bio right there. There's so much information. All of your prices are listed out. So it's not a surprise, it's nothing where you're gonna go in and have a call with them, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I didn't realize it's all right there. And so I think again, when we're talking about being able to go into the situation with a little bit more trust that it's going to be about our needs and about what our specific situation is on your website, there are clear avenues for people to connect with all of those pieces that can help them recognize the path forward and what that looks like with you.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Yes. Thank you for taking a look at our site. Yeah, you can see everybody's bio. If somebody seems like they're the right fit, put them in the notes and request them. And that's no problem at all. And we have people who specialize in things like student loans. We have somebody who specializes in tax advice and retirement. So let us know. We'll hook you up with the right person. And this will be a trusted advisor for life.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah, I love that. Lori, thank you again for joining me today. I really enjoyed our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

I did too. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Thanks for listening to The Stress Nanny. If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to share it with a friend who could use a little extra calm in their week. And if you have a minute, I'd love for you to leave a review. It helps other parents find the show and join us on this journey. For more tools and support, head over to www.thestressnanny.com. Remember, you don't have to do stress alone. Together we can raise kids who know how to navigate life with confidence and ease. Until next time, take a deep breath and give yourself some grace.