Virtually Anything Goes - a Made To See Podcast
This podcast focuses on interesting conversations. Each series has a different theme. Episodes cover a wide range of topics including marketing, AI, communications, healthcare, addiction, sleep & insomnia, sales, livestreaming and many more.
Get to know our guest, their story, and their expertise. Learn something new, be entertained, and discover something new.
It's in th ename: Virtually Anything Goes.
Virtually Anything Goes is a MadeToSee.com podcast
Virtually Anything Goes - a Made To See Podcast
Leadership Forged in Hypergrowth | Anna Lämber's Leadership Story
Leadership gets real when you stop chasing titles and start creating willing followers. That’s the heart of our conversation with Anna Lämber, VP of EMEA Marketing at AVEVA, whose career stretches from HP to ServiceNow’s hypergrowth years and into board work and executive coaching. We dig into the practices that actually move careers forward, such as writing goals, prioritising outcomes over hours, and leading with empathy and accountability, while staying honest about the hard parts.
Anna shares how working full-time while studying taught her that effort isn’t the same as impact, and why she still writes down goals with weekly and quarterly check‑ins. We explore how to reframe failure as a trial run, a source of data that sharpens judgment and builds resilience. From the inside of a company growing 40–60% year over year, Anna explains how to stay adaptable, create clarity without a perfect playbook, and scale through cross‑functional teams across sales, pre‑sales, partners and customer outcomes.
We also talk about the traits that don’t get enough airtime: active listening, real presence and the discipline to hire for mindset over pedigree. Anna’s coaching stories show how belief and structure can turn curiosity into capability. She breaks down the difference between leadership and management, why authenticity conserves energy, and how daily movement, such as horse riding, Tabata, and long walks, keeps performance sustainable.
If you’re aiming for a promotion, building a team or resetting your path, this is a practical guide to intentional leadership, career development and high‑growth operating. Follow the show, share it with a colleague who’s ready for their next step, and leave a quick review to help others find these conversations
Anna Lämber is the Vice President of EMEA Marketing at leading industrial software company AVEVA. Anna started her career in Marketing at Hewlett Packard where she spent 8 years, before moving too TrendMicro where she also spent 8 years. In 2015, Anna joined ServiceNow in 2015 where she led the EMEA North Marketing function until 2024 during ServiceNow’s meteoric growth.
Connect with Anna Lämber on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caktus/
Lev Cribb is the Founder and Managing Director of Made To See, a UK-based Video and Livestreaming Agency, specialising in the strategic and tactical use of video across B2B organisations. Lev is also the host of the Virtually Anything Goes podcast.
Connect with Lev Cribb on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/levcribb/
For more information, content, and podcast episodes go to https://www.madetosee.com or our YouTube channel @madetoseemedia
Well, I think there is even like sometimes a misunderstanding uh leadership versus um being a manager because I think everyone can become a manager like through a title or you get promoted. But but leadership is not really about uh titles. Um I would say it's really about Hello audio listener.
SPEAKER_02:This is your host, Dev Crib. Thank you for choosing this episode featuring our guest, Anna Lemba. If you prefer video, you can also find all of our podcast episodes on YouTube or on our website at mate2d.com. But now I'll get out of your way and hand you over to, well, me. Hello and welcome to the Virtually Anything Goes podcast. This episode is part of our leadership story series where we speak to leaders from a variety of different backgrounds, including AI, healthcare, software, strategy, executive coaching, and others. And if you like what you hear in this episode, be sure to subscribe and check out our other episodes too. Today I'm talking to Anna Lember about her story into leadership, what got her to where she is today, and which obstacles and opportunities helped her to grow into a leader. Anna is the vice president of EMEA Marketing at leading industrial software company Aviva. Anna started her career in marketing at Hewlett-Packard, where she spent eight years, before moving to Trend Micro, where she also spent eight years. In 2015, Anna joined ServiceNow, where she led the EMIA North Marketing Function, until 2024, doing ServiceNow's meteoric growth. And if that wasn't enough, Anna's also a board member at Nordic Property Technology Platform AGV, as well as being an executive coach and advisor. Anna lives in Sweden, and she's a very keen fitness-oriented person, a keen equestrian, and has been known to lead colleagues through early morning Tabata sessions during workaway days. Anna Lemba, very warm welcome too and delighted to have you on the show.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_02:That's great to have you, and we'll get into our conversation in a moment. If this is your first time listening to the Virtually Anything Goes podcast, stick around until the very end when I turn control over to Anna and she can ask me her Virtually Anything Goes question. This can be any question at all, and I won't know what it is until Anna asks me. So it could literally be anything. The only caveat is that Anna will have to answer the same question after I have given my answer. So, Anna, you were born and raised in Sweden. You studied for a bachelor's degree in business administration and international business whilst also working full-time for Hewlett-Packard. You then went on to finish your studies in Australia. That is an ambitious start to any career. Tell me more about the school aged Anna. Was she always ambitious and laser focused?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I wouldn't say I was laser focused. I guess I wanted to do well, uh, but uh yeah, it wasn't probably until a bit later uh I kind of got a bit more focused in terms of you know what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. So potentially more it was yeah, more more luck uh in the beginning. So uh yeah, focus came yeah a little bit later.
SPEAKER_02:So what was uh what was young Anna interested in if if if she wasn't focused to begin with?
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean I was pretty much that uh ordinary, ordinary girl, hanged out a lot in the stable. Uh I was pretty good in school, I guess, but it wasn't like uh you know anything anything special. Um I uh yeah I I kind of you know embraced different opportunities throughout. So uh that one thing led to to another. Um, but uh but yeah, no, it was uh it was more, I guess, coincidence and luck than than maybe focus in the very early, the very early days.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, good. And and obviously it sounds like that's where your love of horses came from as well from an early age.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I come from a family where everyone uh was into horses, so I guess I was kind of in a way forced into that. But uh yeah, I truly love uh working with horses, and that was yeah, definitely uh and is still uh my my passion, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Excellent. Um let's look at uh your career and how it started. Uh you'd been working for HP for a number of years um before deciding to study alongside your full-time job as well. We touched that in the introduction. What made you decide to take a job before university and then later what made you to decide not to obtain not one but but two degrees?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for me, I think it was pretty, I was, you know, I was pretty tired of school, honestly. Like you um, you know, you do your 12 years, um, and I wanted to, yeah, I guess earn a bit, uh, a bit money and to to really sort of, I guess, find my find my way in the professional life. I was lucky as well to meet a few people that kind of opened a few doors, which I which I embraced. But I I learned quite um, you know, quite early on uh at HB at the time, like if if I were to get the more, let's say, senior jobs, um, I needed like a door opener. And um, and most people had a university degree. So for me that that I guess it kind of started to to kind of, you know, at least my my you know vision of what I would potentially like to do, um, I needed a little bit of more, uh, let's say that academic, you know, entry card if you if you like. Uh, but I was still keen to you know keep my independence and have my own money. So that's why I did that combination. I'm I'm not sure if I would recommend it to people today because yeah, back in the days, uh it was pretty full on with um, you know, going to university, doing the classes, go back to work. I was lucky having a very flexible manager at the time. So I was really sort of I could come and go as I wanted, uh, but it was pretty long hours. Uh and uh yeah, my my life was kind of focused mostly on work and uh studies. Uh so yeah, very intense period. And um it was it was good with no student loans, but uh yeah, I'm not sure if I would do the same thing over again.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean you were clearly very determined uh at that young age as well. And I I wonder with the start that you had in the way you had it, what was there a belief or a behavior back then in the early days of your career that you now so disagree with that that perhaps changed and and and what happened, or what did you experience for you for that sort of opinion of to change?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think I mean obviously with very limited experience from the professional life, I I think at the beginning, I I believed working kind of the longest hours, doing everything you you would be asked to do, like that kind of automatically would mean that you would be successful or maybe getting your new opportunity. Um so it's kind of like effort is the same as as impact, uh, if you like, but but obviously over time um I learned that it's it's very much about you know how you prioritize, um how you're focusing and how you're kind of building through through others. And I guess that's also kind of where my initial um ambition and maybe um you know passion for you know leading people uh started to you know come into play. I mean, some of the most maybe effective leaders that I work with, I mean, they were not maybe necessarily the loudest or the most busiest, but they they listened, um, they empowered people, um, and really obviously multiplying the impact through through their teams. So um so so that is something I'm at least trying to shift um and and also um yeah, probably change quite a lot of my uh you know mindset then versus versus now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, interesting. Uh I mean when I introduced you, obviously, we we covered that you spent several eight-year stints um at companies, which you know speaks to obviously your professionalism and your success. Um but I wonder, was there was there a moment in your career where you went from you know passively finding yourself in a situation or a job to where you went to proactively orchestrating your career?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um yeah, definitely. And and this one, yeah, it's it's a really good one because it's I think it's all about intention uh in in the end. And um, and during, I guess, my first years, like I said, it it really a lot happened to me. Obviously, I was intentional with my with my studies and how I kind of built out my foundation to to a greater degree, but um, but it wasn't really until I started to clearly articulate um and reflect on you know what I really wanted to do and where I wanted to go. Um, and this is where your your personal development plan and and similar would would come into play, where you, or at least I started to to write down um you know what I wanted to become or you know, what I wanted to learn, and started to to circulate that, both with my manager, but also with peers or other colleagues. And that also made me the more I kind of spoke about you know where I wanted to go or what I wanted to learn and really also understand what I needed to learn uh in order to get those opportunities, um, it it yeah, it really started to become more intentional and and honestly put it put it on paper. And and the more you talk about it, the more of a reality uh it it became. Um so so that that for me, and this is a you know, it's a few years back now, um, but that was uh definitely kind of those uh defining moments for me. Put it down on paper and start to talk about it, and then obviously build a plan towards um how to how to achieve uh the goals.
SPEAKER_02:What what what triggered that decision to you know become intentional and write it down and kind of pursue it? Was there an aha moment or was it just something that happened? How did that come about?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a good one. I think definitely this happened you know over over time. Um I I knew quite early on that I would like to be part of a team or a company or something where I could make a difference, uh, where I could you know impact to a certain degree. Um and the more, I guess, experienced I became with my previous jobs, the more I realized that getting into a leadership position and being able to sort of influence and scale and support others to grow and go to the you know the direction which um which I would believe would be the right right one. That's when it sort of started like a bit of, I guess, movement uh in my in my head. Um but yeah, it took some time because I mean, honestly, I had a lot of you know really, really good uh years um also in the very beginning with HB. Like we had so much fun, learned a lot. Obviously, it's a large organization. Uh and then it kind of sort of you know refined uh over over the years, but um, but but definitely it was uh yeah, it was something that grew over time. Um and with ServiceNow, I think that was the the great opportunity given how fast that company grew and the opportunities that came along.
SPEAKER_02:Do you still write things down now? Is that continued into the present day?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I do. Um I have a little bit of a different structure maybe today. I mean, we have also at Aviva, we have our uh development plans and we have check-ins with our managers, and obviously I run the same with with my with my team, but I have uh a little bit of a weekly routine um where I write down kind of the I guess the very short-term goals and then I have with myself uh in terms of a quarterly uh kind of priority list. And yes, I do have uh a kind of a longer, you know, one one plus year uh vision uh as well. And I do um it's sort of a once-a-year exercise for myself where I kind of go through um sort of past year and then I and then I look at you know what are the learnings I made, but also what I would really like to kind of prioritize the the coming maybe year or or two or three years. So yeah, there is a little bit of a structure still. Um at the it's uh it's probably I think useful for anyone just to do a little bit of a check-in with yourself. Um but uh yeah, so yeah, there is there's a little bit of a structure.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I've I've I've heard of you know people other people doing this as well, writing things down and um whether you want to call it manifesting or whether it's just planning or just you know, but it it I I've not done it before myself. I I have it in my in my head, but I I don't write it down and I probably should. But it it I mean, uh I right in thinking that it can be scary to you know write something down and almost you know not commit to it, but set yourself that goal and then revisiting that in in a year's or two years' time and perhaps realizing it's it's either gone a different direction, it hasn't quite happened the way you'd had intended it. Is it scary or is it is it actually really helpful and not scary at all?
SPEAKER_01:Well, um, I mean I've done it for so many years, so it's become uh, you know, it well it becomes a routine for me, but also, you know, reflect on why you you write it down because um it should ideally be only for yourself. I mean, you're not doing anything for anyone else uh in this uh in this example. So I mean, being honest with yourself with what you really would like to achieve. Um and then it's also easier to kind of break it, break it down and look at what are the kind of the stepping stones in order to go there. But also maybe not achieving what you initially aspire to achieve. Like it's not a failure, uh, and I think that's an important uh reflection as well, because if you're not doing it, either you know what happened during the, you know, along the way that that either delayed your your process or maybe something happened, you want to change direction. So um obviously be intentional with what you write down or what you're prioritizing, um, but but equally so don't look at it as a potential failure if you're not achieving it within the time frame. But if you truly want something and if you truly are um eager to to walk down a certain path, obviously there's some work to be, there's some work to be done. And also really accept the fact and kind of enjoy the ride that you need to go outside of your comfort zone a little bit, and and just if you can try to embrace um, you know, maybe that uh that learning, learning opportunity, reflection time again, write down or uh document in in one shape or form, um, again, just for yourself, unless you want to share it with someone that is, you know, is close to you. Um, yeah, it's at least it gave me more uh joy and learnings uh than yeah than being scary. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That was interesting. Uh I you know what's interesting as well is you mentioned failure, and it's a topic in this leadership series that we're running in this for this podcast, it it's come up in many of the episodes, the topic of failure. And for example, Emma Acton from Zendesk uh said it's don't view it as failure, see it as a trial run. Yeah, you've you've tried something and okay, it didn't work out, that's fine, try again, you know, and and and you learn, as you said as well, learn from that experience and move on. But um what strikes me is gonna come.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, and I I think maybe just to chip in there, because this is really um, I mean, early on, um, I was probably more afraid of failing because it wasn't obviously the way it should be done. Like that was my impression. And the learning I I also made through throughout the years is like when you really embraced, let's say, that I don't know, failing opportunity, taking that as kind of that was your that was your learning and and really understanding how you, you know, how you did to make something different move moving forward. I mean, look at any, I guess, really successful business leader. Like it's through the failures they they either refine and you know get an even better product or become an even better leader, or you know, learning something that takes the company to the next level. I mean, also on an individual uh level, unless you are failing, you you you are not really, I think, optimizing uh yourself or or embracing um you know other opportunities that that would not come along unless you actually failed uh in a previous uh in a previous example.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I I I agree and and I think it's refreshing and and and surprising to a degree as well. When when I set out to plan this this series um you know to talk to leaders and explore their stories, I didn't anticipate um the openness around failure or trial runs or whatever you want to call it. Because I think um leaders can sometimes be perceived, you know, you look at LinkedIn, there is, you know, you you show your, or many people show you the their best sides on LinkedIn, and you know, uh you know, there's a there's a sort of persona to to keep up and and and that openness I think probably actually is is a great insight into what is what it is to be a leader, is to actually be open about that, to embrace it, to use it as an opportunity rather than an end point. I failed, I can't carry on. Um so it's really, really interesting to see. I mean, you you you lead teams and you've been leading teams for some time now. Um what do you think is it in your upbringing or your your family background that's influenced you most in terms of your leadership style? We talked about your upbringing in Sweden, for example, and the stables and so on. Was there anything in that time that influenced how you are as a leader now?
SPEAKER_01:I'd say um I'd say empathy is probably uh, you know, something that really comes from my upbringing. Um, I mean, I grew up with parents who, you know, really cared about uh family and friends and you know, treating people with respect um and and listening genuinely um just could change the dynamic of of any situation. Um asking a lot of questions, um, you know, to get to know the people you have you know close to you and in a professional life, the people that you work, um that you work with, but not only on a professional level, because I think we are, I mean, we are individuals um and uh you know also after you know after hours, uh very few people are different uh after hours and and during uh during work hours. So um so trying to understand a bit more about the the people that that I work with and and you know really what you know what triggers them uh and and leading leading with empathy. Um I mean I think yes, anyone um you know in a high performing organization, I mean I do do expect high performance. Um but I also believe that people do thrive when they feel understood and when when they feel valued. Um so that is something I definitely got from my from my upbringing.
SPEAKER_02:Are there any are there any um things that you remember your parents repeatedly telling you as as advice or anything like that that that influenced the the way you look at the world?
SPEAKER_01:Because I was very lucky because my parents always believed in me, but they were never pushed, they were never um, let's say necessarily challenging me uh in a way, which would have been good now, reflecting on it. Um but uh but very supportive. Um and I think that supportiveness knowing that uh it was a very strong foundation um that uh that you know you could always fall back to. Um that was um something I you know in my more more sort of later years I I realized I I appreciate more, maybe, maybe compared to what I did uh when I was growing up. But they have been very supportive and and they have been very caring and and and listening has been a key part uh of that. So yeah, hopefully I'm bringing that to to my leadership style as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm sure you do. Um so you know, you you you have your first two, eight-year stints, and then you in 2015 joined Service Now. Um, and that was a time when the the company grew exponentially and and the marketing structure in IMIA changed quite significantly too. Um there probably, and um, you know, you touched on it briefly earlier, though there probably couldn't have been a better opportunity to evolve and grow in your leadership and and kind of extend your your leadership skills as during that time because there was so much happening and the company was growing so much. What's the biggest takeaway, do you think, from that period for you in terms of what you learned about leadership?
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Um, I mean, there are so many. Uh Service Now was, I mean, definitely uh a defining chapter in in my life in in many, many ways. Um it was, I mean, it was so it was so many years of extremely hard work, but so much fun. Uh, you know, we um we changed as a company, I think, every every year. Uh, I met uh I mean so many amazing, amazing people, and and actually a lot of them are still my you know my friends to today. Um but it always felt like we were kind of building uh like building a plane mid mid-flight um because of because of the growth and because of the development of of the company. Um it it really it really felt that, I mean, so just to paint a picture, um, you know, the first years we grew like 40, 50, 60 percent, you know, year, uh, year over year over year. Um, but we also didn't really have too much, let's say, of a track record because we were changing and we were evolving so so much. So I guess the biggest learning was adaptability, you know, trying to stay focused and and you know, creating clarity in like uncertain times or when you know we we knew where we wanted to go, but like how to get there wasn't necessarily always like a straight path, again, because of the maybe lack of track record and and you know the extreme development uh from a company perspective, which I absolutely uh loved. Um but uh but then how to use and and kind of being you know adaptable, but trying to scale through others, uh, but also empower others uh was definitely a big, yeah, a big take takeaway. Uh working more also cross-functional, obviously I had a marketing responsibility, but working really close with other functions, whether it would be sales or pre-sales or you know, customer outcomes um or a partner organization to really, yeah, through a cross-functional collaboration, uh be able to scale and work, uh work as effective as possible, given the yeah, given the pace and and uh you know the constant thing was change, um, which I loved, uh, but but definitely it was um it was a good um yeah, it was a good learning experience in in many aspects.
SPEAKER_02:Do you do you recall any situations uh or conversations uh from your your leaders at the time that kind of inspired you or where you thought, ah, yeah, here's something that um I relate to that I like. You know, you talk talked about empathy, for example, um that that you've since sort of emulated and followed and that kind of inspired you a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Uh again, it there's so many, but I I was very fortunate to to spend uh some time with one of the CMOs during uh during the time. And and I was I was always impressed. So um Alan Marks uh is his name, and I was always impressed by his presence. Um so even obviously we were uh you know often often remote, uh, but his ability to be like in the room and and really being focused and asking asking questions in a way that that really I think you know had a very you know depth in the conversation. Um that that for me was uh was always very, very inspiring. And and obviously um yeah, learning more about uh how he viewed marketing and uh you know connecting the dots, uh that was uh yeah, an extremely useful, useful experience for me.
SPEAKER_02:So just just just leading on from that, I suppose, uh I mean, in your opinion, and both as a as a leader as well as an employee, what what do you think is I suppose the most underrated leadership traits or kind of quality that you think that's really important, but actually it's probably underrated in the grand scheme of things and traits that we look at.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, so being being a leader, we talk a lot about you know vision and the decisiveness. And and I think as leaders, we're often expected to have answers. Uh, but I would say listening and and really being present would be two of the traits that are probably more important than anything. And it's easy to say, right? I mean, yeah, we we should, you know, practice active listening and you should be present, not only professionally, but but you know, in every situation. But it requires quite hard hard work. But I I also find that when you are truly able to be present and truly able to listen, asking questions and really listening to to the answer and how how things are being shared, that is um I think the the most powerful situation you can be in as a leader. Because again, making sure that people are feeling heard um and learning from from others through uh active listening, uh, you know, then the conversation, the relationship can can really become magical. So definitely active listening and and truly uh trying to be present. Um those two um are definitely under underrated.
SPEAKER_02:And I suppose that can be, I mean, you describe the situation with ServiceNow where there's constant change and you know you're going into uncharted territory and and you know doing things that perhaps haven't been done before. It must be quite hard during those times uh because there's so much going on and your attention is divided, I suppose, right? But how do you feel?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely. It's like I think in most uh, you know, most assignments um you you have when you have you know quite a few different things going on. I mean, you're never gonna be finished, right? I mean, there is not, you know, at you know, six o'clock you're you know, you're you're kind of logging off and going home and there is no work like you because you completed uh you know a lot of tasks. You always like you always kind of switched on in a way. So you also have to to learn how to kind of navigate, um navigate that. Um and you know that it will always be you know something new uh coming up. That's I mean over time as well, like how to try to coming back to the how to prioritize, um, and and you know, trying to understand like you know, where would sort of the you know most impact um or depending on your your you know priorities, like where you know which you know which tasks and which kind of projects would be most impactful. And trying uh to prioritize that's that is really important because like it's no, you know, the job will not just get you know done uh when when the day is over. So the kind of inability to to prioritize and understanding um you know the outcome is is going to be well, it is a you know important component for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I suppose comes goes all the way back to what you said about taking notes, that's that's prioritizing as well, isn't it? What do you prioritize in your own career? And I suppose I mean th there will be leaders listening to this conversation and there will be those perhaps aspiring to become leaders who are listening to this conversation as well. What do you think is one of the most under misunderstood things that people have in their minds about leadership? Um and they don't realize until you're really in the thick of it yourself that ah, that was I misunderstood that. I didn't think that about leadership in the in the right way. What do you what do you think is misunderstood?
SPEAKER_01:I think there is even like sometimes a misunderstanding uh leadership versus um being a manager, um, because I think everyone can become a manager like through a title or you get promoted um uh you know uh in the company hierarchy. But but but leadership is not really about uh titles. Um I would say it's really about creating you know followers, um, you know, leading by example, um, and then making making sure that you hopefully have people that that are following you. I mean, that's that's true. Uh leadership. I think anyone can be a leader, honestly. I mean, it's uh it is not about who is you know formally reporting uh into you um, you know, again through the kind of the hierarchy. But um, but but that's you know, I wouldn't say misunderstanding maybe, but it's definitely, you know, uh something where um you know leaders um, you know, are you a true leader or are you a manager? That's kind of number one. Um and and sometimes I think maybe people uh say it's it's glamorous, right? Uh I mean from the outside, leadership can look great and shiny, like uh, you know, there's titles and there's big decisions and you have certain visibility. Um, but but in reality, it also means that you know, making you know, sometimes really tough calls, um, having uncomfortable conversations, um, and also sometimes you know carrying a responsibility even like when outcomes are not guaranteed. Um, it is incredibly rewarding. Um, but um but yeah, some sometimes you can't. Really fully understand it until you are truly in uh in the role.
SPEAKER_02:It sounds like what you're saying is in an ideal world, you become a leader first and then a manager. Um leader leader leadership first and then titles will follow, ideally. That's that's the the better way of looking at it because it makes you a better leader and manager.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, definitely. Um and uh and like I said, m manager is just kind of on on paper. I mean, leadership is more uh, you know, the behavioral uh aspect uh of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Um and you just I you I suppose you touched on a side of it. I mean, uh in leadership we have ups and downs, and as a leader, um I suppose you have to work out how do you maintain the balance between, I suppose, on the one side the the human vulnerability and dealing with setbacks. And we spoke about failure or kind of trial runs, however you want to call it. And on the other side, I suppose being a professional leader and pursuing the goal that either you've set yourself or that the company set yourself. How do you how do you strike that balance?
SPEAKER_01:Well I mean, I I think when you look at um you know the two things, it's not really like an opposite. Um I I would say in most cases, like you know, being being real and being true uh to yourself, um, that kind of comes then if you are that it should come natural uh with you know obviously being being professional. I mean, I'll definitely I mean admit some you know some things are tough um and obviously I don't have all the the answers, but you know, I'll try to pair that with like the direction on how to how to move forward. I mean, I'm pretty much the same person, honestly, both in my personal life uh and in my professional life. Um obviously from from uh you know professional perspective, you know, we have you know goals uh to achieve, we are going in a certain direction, uh, but it doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable or you can't share personal um you know things um along the way. And I mean you also need to find that balance in every, you know, in every situation, you have you know your professional life and you have your personal self. So combining those two is uh in an authentic uh way, I think is really, really important.
SPEAKER_02:I suppose not not everybody, and maybe maybe it's a career thing, maybe it's a maturity thing, maybe it's a personality thing, but I suppose not everyone is always themselves exactly the same way they are at home versus at work. And I think what I'm hearing you say is that if you can have that, if you are the same person, it it actually makes the leadership side easier because you're not pretending you're not putting on a facade. All right, is that right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and I also I think it's it's about like the level of energy like you I mean, at least I can only speak for myself, obviously, but if I would if I would be someone else at work, I would probably need to put a lot of energy um to sort of maintain or keep keep that uh, let's say, personality or or that character. And for me, that would be, let's say, too much hard work or energy put into something that potentially might not be as rewarding. So, I mean, obviously there is a nuance here, right? I mean, in in a you know, in a personal context, there are situations that you might might react slightly different to, and and you know, the professional agenda and and you know what we are to achieve as a company, um, and how you collaborate and communicate with your team or your peers, uh, etc. Um, it's it's uh obviously maybe slightly more polished in in some areas. Uh, but I but I truly try to bring myself um you know to the table and and to the meetings. And it just helped me, I think, to kind of channel, I guess, my energy um in a way that yeah, I uh I'm not I'm not pretending uh to be one person at work and then I'm some someone totally different uh at at home.
SPEAKER_02:So it's interesting you mentioned the the the energy element because um it now makes me wonder well it makes me look at myself, but also makes me wonder are you do you see do you do you think you are introvert or do you think you're an extrovert?
SPEAKER_01:So you've done a lot of well, at least I've done a lot of tests, like personality tests throughout the years. Um and and what I've learned is that we all have both in us. It's it's just I guess a little bit of like where on the scale uh you are. I am I'm definitely more of an extrovert uh personality. I I do thrive having people around me, and I I also really like to work in a team and with with people. Um I kind of prefer being obviously alone as well. So I don't I don't really mind spending time uh doing my own stuff, but like on that scale, uh I'm I'm definitely more of that that extrovert uh person. It's purely because I truly get the energy uh when when I am with a you know person or with uh with a group. So so my energy is mainly coming through uh the the collaboration and communication and engagement with with other people. But with that said, yes, I do need sort of my own my own time and and also my own reflection, uh reflection time. But yeah, on this definitely more extrovert than introvert.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Um I mean we mentioned during the beginning that you you are a coach and you empower others to um as well, and and you've been a cultural champion in the workplace. Um what is something that excites you when you see it happen in somebody else during that process?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think the the most rewarding uh situation um and examples are when people um you see them, you see them grow and and like they're really growing to like their own confidence and see them succeed with things that was maybe challenging in the beginning, or able to get that you know promotion, or you know, embracing new opportunities which might be challenging, and and see that you know that kind of joy and happiness and and you know that confidence grow when when they realized they you know they succeeded. And and also um uh you you have a very, very rewarding situation like uh when people share that you know, I can do this, you know, I I want to try. So a lot of people that I worked with, you know, initially maybe didn't really have experience in a certain area. So they have one one very specific example which I which I still love. And it was um one of my first employees, and and she she'd never been into marketing. And in her interview with me, uh more or less her opening statement was that I don't know anything about marketing.
SPEAKER_02:It's a false statement for an interview.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I was, you know, I was obviously maybe a little bit surprised about her honesty, uh, but I just loved her mindset uh so much and the curiosity uh in the in the conversation. Uh it wasn't for a super senior role, so obviously uh that you know that is something I took into consideration. So I really chose her uh based on mindset and and curiosity, and just watching, you know, how she embraced things over time and how she learned and how she grew. Um that for me was truly, truly rewarding. Uh, and there's a few more examples of those when uh you know, taking on people that are definitely um uh let's say unexperienced in certain areas, and then by coaching and supporting and really believing in people uh to ensure they go to the next level. That's definitely the most exciting part. Uh like I said, for me, leadership is very much about uh you know trying to create followers and leading by example. I mean, sometimes it's easier said uh said than done, uh, but it's something I um I'm actively trying to work on every every day. Uh I mean there's a few values that I believe is is really important as well. So um personal integrity is is one of them, very, very important. But combining that with with empathy, uh as we spoke about, um I think that also like a strong sense of like accountability um for me is very important. Uh you know, feeling feeling accountable for uh you know what you have what you have said uh or what you're doing is is a really key uh key part, especially in leadership, actually, I think for all uh all roles. Um and then having a clear vision of you know where you want to go. Um so um yeah, for me, um for me that's probably the most the most important ones. Um maybe add in resilience as well. Um challenges will come um and you need the grift too to really push uh push through.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean you've been leading teams now for for many years, as we mentioned, but you're also a mother. Um what values do you instill uh in leaders of tomorrow?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I um I I come back to uh to empathy and integrity um um and and maybe uh grit a little bit too. Uh if I uh you know if I look at uh if I look at my my son, I I want to make sure that he um you know he also feels accountable for the things he needs to accomplish in school and you know for things that he needs to uh achieve uh also in the longer term, no matter what he decides to do uh professionally. Um but uh but with the combinations of resilience, empathy, integrity, and and a bit of grit, uh I think those are the key, the key ones. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Excellent. Thanks for sharing that. Um we're not done yet, uh, but I've really enjoyed this conversation so far. Um that that opinion might change depending on what happens next, because um, this is where we get to the virtually anything goes question. Uh if you've never listened to this podcast before, we we end each episode with the virtually anything goes question, which is where I turned over control to our guest in this case Anna. Um and you can ask me any question you want, and I don't know what it is, so I'll be put on the spot on the spot. Uh, but I have to answer it. Um but my safety net is that once I've given my answer, then you have to give your answer as well to the same question. So Anna, I'll turn the control over to you and um let you ask your virtually anything goes question for me.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_02:I'm as ready as I can be.
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean we talked a lot about uh about leadership, but but I am also a firm believer that in order to be able to lead effectively, in order to perform, uh in order to um to also be uh you know happy at at work, you need a balance between work, uh work and life. Um and for me, having you know, having your your health and um and your time with yourself, for yourself, you know, prioritizing yourself is really, really important. So I'm I'm keen to to understand what are you doing to I guess reward yourself and you know, you know, get your energy levels up or prioritize things for yourself. What would you do then?
SPEAKER_02:Outside of work Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um I mean I'm I'm lucky enough that work does energize me, um which might sound a bit sad, but uh there are obviously personal sides as well. So um we we we touched on being introverted versus extroverted, and um the best way I've heard it described to me is that as an introvert or an extrovert, if you have five five coins that are your energy, um you're you as an introvert, you spend your coins when you are with people and in social situations, and at the end of the day, you know, you've you've spent your coins um and your energy is down, and you have to kind of relax to build that those coins up again, that energy up again. For extroverts, it's the other way around, you collect coins every time you engage with somebody, every time you are in social situations, you collect those coins. I'm more on the introvert side. So um I get to a point where at the end of each day I need to decompress, I need to, you know, spend some time alone, or certainly have some a time where I can just reflect and process the day. Um and that is really important. And if I don't have that, then you know, over days and weeks that that can have quite a uh the opposite effect of not getting those coins back. Um so that doesn't mean I go off into the wilderness and you know ignore everybody else. Um, but it does mean that you know when I come home, I it's very important for me to spend time with my family. Um I've got I've got two kids and and obviously a wonderful wife, and and that that is that is for me already relaxation. Um, and it doesn't matter whether that is doing homework or whether that is doing you know going to the football pitch or um watching my my daughter dance, you know, that time spent energizes me as a as a as it would do for an extrovert. From an introvert perspective, um I do need to spend some time alone. So I I do try and find time each evening where I can just almost go into into nothingness or at least let the brain catch up and and and process. Um but then physically as well, um it is it is hard. I think when you're a young parent or parent of young children, uh there is not much time that you can take for yourself. And and you know, we're now at a stage where our children are older. Um but in those early days, you know, it's hard to make time without compromising time you should be spending or want to be spending with your family, so to then go to the gym or join a team or things like that. Um but certainly over the last few years um I've I've been able to spend more time going to the gym, being active. Um you know, through an old injury, I can't really do much team sport. Um, but going to the gym is important. Just uh it it is that also that alone time, but it's also physically staying active and um making sure that your your body is still going to be okay in 20, 25 years' time. Uh so yeah, th that that's that's for me, I suppose how I how I do it is is is a combination of family time, you know, spending time with with with friends um and spending time alone and then being physically active. So it it might be a a common answer, I don't know, but for me that's that that is the answer of how I approach it.
SPEAKER_01:Brilliant. Love it.
SPEAKER_02:What about you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I think that's um uh I I wouldn't say similar, but but what I am trying to actively prioritize is really minimum, you know, one hour a day, potentially more if I can, but to do something, you know, physical active. Um I uh I'm very passionate, as you mentioned in the beginning, but I'm a passionate about uh well, fitness is a very nice word, but but trying to have a balance um between a you know like physical active life and obviously um everything else from a professional perspective. So so for me it's very very important to find that um let's say activity level as part of my day because that's literally also when I regain um a lot of energy and maybe you clear your head. So I it's a variety of things I do. I mean, we mentioned sort of my passion for for horses, so obviously stable time is uh is one of them, or you know, it can be also going to the gym, um, around Tabata sessions for you know for the neighbors and for the community a couple of days a week when I'm not traveling. And uh and that that for me having at least that hour, preferably more if I can, uh, as part of my you know daily, uh daily routine is is really really important. And and I try try to be quite strict uh with it. Um so that is uh yeah, that is also how I think I I hopefully am better mom and uh you know wife and and colleague and and uh and leader.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Just out of interest, are you are you part of the uh the 5am club that does uh all the activities in the morning or are you more of an evening person where that happens after?
SPEAKER_01:You know, that that is really like it's actually a desire I have. I am not uh I am not a morning person, um, but uh I am actively trying to shift my um my kind of my my rhythm a little bit. I used to like you know, some years ago, I really used to stay up very, very late, uh, which meant obviously um I kind of try to push like you know the meetings out so not start before 9 a.m. Um but now I try to go to bed a little bit earlier. Uh and uh and I do do um uh take power walks in the morning before uh before I start my laptop if I'm not traveling. So 5 a.m. no, but I'm definitely uh yeah, around 6.30 maybe these days.
SPEAKER_02:Oh okay. Yeah, so that's earlier than me. Um very admirable. Um excellent. Uh and it's been it's been such a great conversation, and I really enjoyed getting some insights into your journey into leadership, your experience with that, and and kind of what brought you there. So I appreciate you being that so open with us and and giving us an insight. It's been been great to have you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. Love the conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, wonderful. No, it's it's it's wonderful. And and you know, if this is your first time listening or watching this episode or or any episode on the Virtually Anything Ghost podcast, there are more. Um if you like this one and you think somebody else would like it as well, please share it. It helps us reach the right audience with uh with the stories that we have here. And of course, um subscribe and check out the the ones that are coming up and indeed the ones that already exist. Um, thank you so much, and of course, thank you to our audience for listening as well. We always love having you with us. Um and we'll see you again, hopefully, very soon in another episode. Take care.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for joining us on this podcast. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. For other interesting topics, go to your favourite podcast platform or watch the video version on YouTube. Just search the Virtually Anything Goes podcast. See you next time.
