In the World, Not of the World: A Graduation Sunday Reflection

Welcome to the TNC Podcast hosted by the staff of Neighborhood Church. Each episode features: Pastor Tom delivers his first sermon as the newly ordained pastor, exploring Jesus's prayer in John 17. The discussion centers on two key gifts for Christians: God's Word and Christ's intercessory prayer, alongside a warning about the world's challenges. 

Highlights include:

• Insights on graduation Sunday and the priesthood of all believers
• Advice for graduates navigating faith in a complex world
• Reflections on being "in the world but not of the world"
• Personal stories of Christian witness and community
• Practical guidance on staying true to one's faith

The podcast offers a deep dive into Christian identity, mission, and the importance of staying connected to Christ while engaging with the world around us.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introductions
• 4:27 Pastor Tom's First Sunday
• 6:21 John 17:14-23 Bible Reading
• 19:01 Two Gifts: Warning and Mission
• 30:51 Advice for Graduates
• 45:00 Being Christian in everyday life
• 54:10 Closing Reflections

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Yeah. Welcome to the DNC podcast. We are here, recorded in studio in the worship center at the neighborhood church. And we just had a conversation about the print in the Bible being too small, and that came from our wonderful new pastor in the church and podcast host, the one, the only, Tom Hellman, no, I'm sorry. It's not. It's not Tom Hellman, sure, it's Pastor Tom. It's still just Tom helmet, still just to the resident geezer, the resident Yeah, you are, yeah, oldest on staff. Now that's yeah, that's a moment, yeah, well, yeah, sure, uh huh, yeah, that's great. Nope. Oh, wait. We had a birthday this last week, challenging for the oldest on staff. Right now, I know Tom coming in close, but here goes to my left. Now, would you like to share what your birthday was? Or would you like to say your 60th birthday? It was awesome. Crawfish boil, hanging out or doing fun. I mean, it was fun. It was fun 80s themed. Let's go well, it was any decade. So my younger sister was like, 60s, 70s, yep. So, yeah, yep. I forgot I was wearing my tie dye when I went out after your birthday. And I showed up at gear head, which is an out like Outdoor Gear Store, right? And I showed up over there, and I walked in and completely forgot that I was in my my spray painted hat and my bright tie dye, looking for rugged outdoor shoes. And the guy walked up, and he goes, Hey, and he hands me these shoes, and he goes tie dye. I was like, Oh, yeah. And I was like, There's a story. Don't worry. It's I was like, it's good. So your birthday carried on. I just want to let you know it kept on Raw. Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. And, but that's the last birthday party, not the last birthday but the last birthday party. So I'm good, you're good. You don't need any more parties. You're done. More parties, they're done. Okay, that was great. Did you make that choice beforehand? Why is it the last birthday party? It's all downhill. Okay, all right, that's great. Okay, yeah, I know, yeah, it's great. I think you're still riding up. I think you're on the way moving forward. It's great. Love it. I love that. That's great. And then all the way to Tom's right. Director of worship here at the neighborhood church table, Tavo, it's great to see you did not have a birthday, but you and Kara were there, which is wonderful. We were there. Yeah, freaked out, yeah, the baby. The baby had a moment. I was not there for the moment when it happened. No, I was there when you guys were having the moment, yeah? And then I was like, Oh, they're here. And then I walked in, yeah, yeah. All was fine until the baby decided that I wasn't. Nothing could thankfully, Cheryl was there, yeah, to help us out with her calm demeanor, yeah, that's great. And I love that presence. Yeah, her nursing backgrounds, beautiful. She didn't do anything that actually helped the baby, because you couldn't, yeah, but she didn't freak out. Yes, helpful. That's great. That is super helpful, super helpful. Yeah, there's just moments when, like, There's no rhyme or reason and it's not logical, and you're like, I don't know what's happening right now, but man, that baby was crying when tears fled, just like we never seen that. We never seen him cry that way. So yeah, that was a moment. Yeah, it was, yeah, powerless feeling, and it really is. And there's, I read once that like the cry, like the way they do it, the sound, it's like there's something ingrained in the human brain to make that get our attention. Yeah, you know that, because it just is an anxiety kind of creating thing, because that way the babies don't get ignored. Like, yeah, absolutely. It's giving them a gift to get our attention, whether we want them. Our attention, yep, and that never stops, right? Tom, I mean, you got a high school. I got a high school that never stops. They get your attention any way they can. So with that, Tom, we are here because you just recently became pastor, Tom, at the neighborhood church, and you were ordained last week, which I thought was wonderful. We had lots of people from different congregations come. We had all the local pastors show up, which was incredible. Worship was amazing, right? The pastors got to be in worship, which was wonderful to see, just as me leading in the Synod for, you know, 15 years, and having us together was really nice. And then you had to come together for an ordination, right, which is really wonderful, right? And to have your family there and just see all that, and to be a part. And then the reception afterwards, where you cooked, how many pounds of how much did you it's like, 75 pounds of brisket. And then what, sure if it'd be enough, as the number started swelling. So we cooked another 30 pounds of chicken, no? And that was delicious. And then, and that brisket was solid. It was solid. It was super solid. I mean, it was tender, but, yeah, I was worried. I think I'm younger because of that. Let's go back to 59 that means you get another party. So Tom, this last Sunday was then your first Sunday preaching as pastor. Tom, I'm still not used to that title. I know it's gonna happen. I'm gonna keep on saying it until they get used to it, which is great. And we it was graduation, Sunday. Graduation Sunday, and we had a wealth of graduates, which was awesome. Also Memorial Day weekend, but the graduates showed up in force, which was really cool, and they got prayed over, which was a really awesome moment, mostly in the second service, because I think they slept in. Oh yeah, your son is wrestling a lot. For the first service, it was raining a lot. It was torrential downpour. Yeah, Andrea Lich felt, who is our lead worship coordinator right now? She said it is torrential when she showed up in like, Springdale, like she's ever bad and so, yeah, so your son specifically texts me in the morning at like, I don't know it had to be 830 and he's like, yep, not gonna happen. Told you it's gonna be the nine o'clock, not gonna overslept. Gonna be 745 and I was like, All right, like, scratch that. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, that was the text, scratch that. And I knew when he said that he was gonna get up early to go pick somebody up to be here at the first service. And I'm like, right, yeah, not gonna happen, not gonna happen. Not gonna go. Yeah, not gonna go. So with that, we want to break into your message, right? This was the message of Jesus praying over the disciples, which was really great in John 17. And now, was there any difference? So, like, I'm going to take this just for a moment of like, when people go from being, you know, in a relationship to getting engaged and they're married, and the next day, like, oh my gosh, you're married. How does it feel? Was there any difference that you felt from being Pastor Tom on Sunday to, like, prior preaching experiences that you've had at the neighborhood church, or Saint Luke, none whatsoever, none whatsoever, whatsoever, no, because it's the title, doesn't really do anything, yeah, like the title, so people know who's supposed to be doing it, but it doesn't like, there's not like, this mystical, you know, poof, you're a pastor now, a sudden, you're a different person. Yeah, it's still just, you don't have a direct line to God, I'm not gotten that phone number, don't? Doesn't work that way. So I just don't feel any different. Speaking of phone numbers, I want a 2479367, 2285, neighborhood church. That was great. Thank you for that. Lead in Tom to our wonderful jingle. That is the TNC phone number. If you want to call it, you reach the one and only, Roseanne. Roseanne, right? And that's what you'll sound like, Hey, this is Roseanne from the neighborhood church. When you call, yeah, it's not a direct line to God. No, it's not a direct line to God as questions you can get right to the church. That's great. So we're going to be jumping into John chapter 17, verses 14 through 23 and then we're going to break down your message, kind of dig into that a little bit. Into that a little bit, which will be great. And then, and then, as we dig into this too, your role here at the neighborhood church is going to be pastor of care and education, right? Can you explain a little more about what that means in the life of the church as you get ready to come on and staff in the summer? Yeah? So all things care, like pastoral care, so that'd be, hopefully eventually, Steven ministries, we kind of spread that out because, you know, one or two people can't do all of it that's right, growing beyond, beyond that, and then the education is really kind of a faith formation, right? Education out the Scripture is about helping people discern what the faith means for them, hopefully getting going beyond the head and kind of getting down into the heart, yeah, a little bit, and just kind of helping them through that, through that process of discernment, beyond just the shallow participatory, you know, show up as an audience member, kind of, yeah, that's going to be beautiful. And then you're also going to be serving as kind of a contract out to St Luke Lutheran, so still doing that twice a month, right? Going down there to Fort Smith, I think it was three, three Sundays out of the month there, and then one here, okay? Unless it's a five Sunday month, which there's a couple of, yeah, yeah. And then on Mondays, primarily for pastoral care, the the shut ins, the people that care facilities taking communion, to the people who can't come to church, and stuff like that. Yeah, it's going to be great. It's going to be great. So let's jump into John chapter 17, verses 14 through 23 and Roseanne, why don't you lead us off? But as we do that, we like to take a breath, right? Like to prepare our heart for the word. It's a nice moment to slow down a little bit. And so, Roseanne, when you're ready, why don't you lead us in? Well, I do want to point out that this is Jesus praying, Yes, correct? Just so Jesus's word, yeah. So, for background, Jesus is not yet been turned over to the authorities. He's left. He's in in Jerusalem. Basically, he's in Jerusalem. And he has gone to across the Kidron Valley, to the the Mount of Olives, the Gethsemane, the garden there at the foot of the Mount of Olives, and is praying. And if you're in, if you read in Matthew Mark, Luke, where Jesus goes and prays at night and tells the disciples to stay awake and they keep falling asleep. Well, this is what they slept through, except maybe the the person who the John or the disciple that Jesus loved, that is the inspiration for this book. Okay, so while the disciples are sleeping, Jesus is praying. This is where it lines up. I have given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world, I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world, Sanctify them in truth. Your word is truth. As you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world, and for their sakes, I sanctify Myself so that they also may be sanctified in truth. I ask not only on behalf of the. But also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that You have sent me the glory that you have given me, I have given them, so that they may be so that they may be one as we are one, I in them, and you and me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as You have loved Me and Tom. I have to say that is a very confusing text, like, if you go back into that with the world in me, the world in you, the world. Don't take them out, leave them in, right? I sent you. You sent me. I've given them. Like, yeah, I mean, that's, that's a hard breakdown. You got to kind of break it down a little bit. So to kind of, kind of break that down, you know, we know certain verse 14, that God has given us the word, and Jesus has brought God's word to us through, himself, right? And then, so starting at 16, they do not belong to the world. That's us. We don't belong to the world, just as Jesus didn't belong to the world, and the world is going to hate us because of being followers of Christ. There's going to be consequences, and we have to decide, who is it that we serve? Are we here to serve the worldly things or the the heavenly things, and then sanctifying them in truth, that then God's Word is truth, and sanctifying just means cleansing and forgiving, so that we're we're cleansed of our sins through the truth that is the word of God, and through faith in God. That's just the saving aspect of this of faith in God's word that is revealed to us in Jesus Christ, and then getting into 19 as you have sent me into the world, so I send them. And that's the mission part, all right, that as what Jesus started, we are, we are to continue as Jesus's church. You know, when Jesus said to, you know, to Peter, when he made his attestation that you are the Son of the living God. He said on this I will, I will build my church, or build my gathered community of people. What Ecclesia means, gathered for a common purpose. And then we got into this whole sanctify self in and if you're in, think of it as kind of like being in love with someone. You're in love with someone, yeah, all of your being and your thoughts and your purpose and what you do in life is intertwined with this person, like when you get married, yeah, the two shall become one flesh, right? So that the two people are now one entity, one person, one common interest. And so when, just as Jesus is of the same substance of the Father and is one with the Father, and now we are one with Christ, meaning our life is supposed to be completely in every way, intertwined with Jesus and with the Word of God we have through Jesus. And that's supposed to be a part of our motivation, of how we make decisions and what we think about every day, how we live our life, the interest, the reason we live our life, the way we do things. And that ties into the priesthood of all believers. When you you go out into the world working as a bus driver or a cook or a janitor or whatever it is. You do it to the glory of God because you are in Christ, like your your whole life is intertwined where the two cannot be seen as as separated, as two separate things. So I love like, if you look back in 18 right, as you have sent me into the world, it's a juxtaposition to really going back into like, 14, right? I've given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because they do not belong to the world. And so there's this interesting sense that even though we do not belong to the world, and we belong, and this is where I would say that we almost make it, need to make a distinction from, like, belonging to Christ, right? And does that mean we belong to the kingdom, because we have this kind of two Kingdom identity of the Kingdom of God and the kingdom on earth. And so we almost want to make a distinction, that when it says you do belong to the world, right? Does that mean you're belong to the kingdom of God, or you belong to Jesus? And then it says, but you've been sent into the world like Jesus, right? So it's not that we don't belong to the world, therefore we don't have to deal with the world. And I think that's a really hard statement, right? As opposed to, like, monasticism that just wanted to pull away from it, yeah? But, but it's like Jesus is sitting to the world, like, now I quit. You can't go live in a cave. Yeah? That's right. It's Yes, yeah, right. And I think that's a monasticism is a great look at that, right? There's ways to live into the world, but not have to necessarily embrace the world, right? You can be separate apart from extra nose outside of the world, even though you're in it. And I don't think that's what this text is saying, because it can be hard to hear that the world hates us and then to say, Great, I'm done with the world. Yeah, it's not saying that the world is, is the enemy, just that, you know, it's like, do not be conformed. Yeah, that same, that same language, that that, you know, we're to be one with Christ, Jesus, and then be in the world as it goes to the the Great Commission, you know, go and be disciples of all nations. I said, we're to be here as a reflection of Christ on the earth for people to see that Jesus was sent and that God loved loves us as as God also loved Jesus. So we're set we're supposed to be set apart, you know, be be different. Different than just what the world tries to mold people. And I think that's why that word sanctify is so important. Because that sanctified word is to set apart like, even though we're in the world, we're set apart as holy, right, because of Jesus Christ. And so that relationship that I love here in the text is that relationship to Jesus Christ being sent into the world as we are sent into the world, right, set apart from the world, but in the world at the same time, and not just sent, just for the sake of being sent, but being sent so the world will know that God sent Jesus, and that God loves all of them that we're being sent to. So yeah, when we go out and we live our life as a living testimony and witness to the to our neighbors, our friends, our coworkers, it's so that they can see that what God has done, and that we've been sent as an extension of that, to be able to come to believe that, that the John 316 that God for loved them so much, that God sent Jesus to die so that they could have, they could have that promise. Yeah, so there, it's not just being here for the sake of being here. It's being here for that, that purpose of that, that Christian example and witness in the world. You know, I love kind of the structure of how this works. Because if I think about Jesus, Christ being sent into the world as part of the Triune God, right? We get Jesus coming into the world with the message of the Kingdom. I mean, that was the primarily, the gospel that Jesus brought, right? It wasn't the miracles, wasn't anything else. It was the message of the Kingdom. There was a kingdom for you, a kingdom of heaven. I go to prepare a place for you, right? That's the message of Jesus in relationship to God, right? And the kingdom. And yet we have this very important part, when it says we're sent into the world, that we have a message of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins. It's, it's a small distinction between what Jesus represents is the kingdom and what we are sending to people represent Jesus, correct? There's almost like a like, We are the intro messengers into a relationship with Jesus. And once you have a relationship with Jesus, you're introduced into the kingdom, right? Like, like, you have this kind of like unfolding, developing relationship that we are called to. So when we go into the world, we're really referencing Jesus. And so this, this language here, is a wonderful kind of introduction into Jesus. And so, yeah, I love it. It is, I would say, the like, sitting in the congregation and just reading through this, if you just read through it, like I was listening, a little confusing. Yeah, let's go and like, it's so it's so many words that are like, in out of because not in the world, but you're in the world. The world hated you, but loved the world. Like, I'm like, whenever you're trying to discern the meaning in a text, in Scripture, you're reading scripture if you see something mentioned more than once, like the, my New Testament professor is like, if you see something listed multiple times, like repeated, pay attention to it, because there's a purpose. It's not on accident. It's when you get repetition. It's for emphasis, you know. And so we get these things that that being sent and not of the world that happened, you know? It's, it's written in here multiple times, and the the Unity aspect of it that is in there repeatedly. It's because that's important as emphasis there, that we should really pay attention to that. So as confusing as it is, it's something that we need to dig into, because it's that way to draw your attention, you know, to that, to emphasize that. Now, you said, this is Jesus's prayer to the Father, yeah, yes, for for us. So he's repeating it because he wants us to understand how important it is. That's why he's telling the disciples, stay awake, yeah, and listen to me. Most of them slept through it. Obviously one of them didn't, but they kept falling asleep, which is why I think there's such a distinction in John's gospel, rather than Matthew, Mark and Luke, because most of them were like, sleeping through it. But, yeah, I mean, this is Jesus knowing he's about to be turned over and to be crucified, and it's gonna be this traumatic event for the disciples, and he's praying for them, you know, things of the night he's about to be crucified, and he's praying for the other disciples who are gonna abandon him, yeah, and I think there, there's a when you look at it on the flat page of the paper without, you know, which is without emotion. But if you, if you imagine it occurring in your mind, imagine, like a scene in a movie of what's going on, it can tug at your heartstrings a little more, because this is, you know, a love, a love filled thing that he's he's praying for all of us, fallen sinners. Well, the meal was before, correct, yes, the meal. So he said, what he said at the meal? Yep. And then he's praying this prayer, telling his disciples, this is very important. And he's waiting because this is where they came and got him right? He just led them to him, as at this place where he where he was praying, man, there is a like, if you go back into 15 in chapter 16, right, 15 ends with the world's hatred, and then 16 jumps right into the work of the Spirit, right? Because I was with you, but now I was going to Him who sent Me. You know, where are you going, right? But because I've said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts, right? Like he's trying to give them this identity, that there's joy and things that continue to move forward. And then, literally, the next section of sorrow will turn to joy, like, like, even though you're sad, that I have to depart, right? And they don't understand it fully. Yet this will turn to joy eventually. And then again, praise for peace, for the disciple. I mean, I love this relationship, and if I go back just a little bit, so chapter 17, verse six, it says, I have made Your name known to those whom you gave me from the world, they were yours, and you gave them to me, and they kept your word very interesting in the text, because it's almost as if Jesus is talking about how God aligned people in his circle, right? And these were the ones that I I've continued to give the world to, and I feel sometimes that we feel that we have to take on everyone's circle as leaders in the church, like we are responsible for every single person. And if you look in here, I've made Your name known to those whom you gave me from the world, right? And it's interesting to think, like maybe that circle is very important about who we're giving that message to, and how it goes out from there. That's the first the first step. And you know, so Jesus raised up these, this group of disciples, and each of them go out and raise their own group of disciples. And the church still does it now. And part of this towards the end of the reading is talking about not uniformity in the church, but unity in the church, which is why I still liken the Apostles Creed have the one holy Catholic Church with a lowercase meaning of worldwide church, because it is still the one we try to, we try to, to chisel ourselves off as separate entities like the Lutheran church or the Methodist church or this or that, we're all part of the one Christian church, and to realize that we are all united together in faith, in Jesus Christ, and that we're supposed to go out in the world. And this, this Christian unity, so that the world can see the glory of Christ through the church. Yep, and it's each of those disciples. We keep spreading out more and more and more disciples. And you know, you being raised up. Me being raised up. We continue to go out and to disciple to other people in the church, and everybody here on Sunday morning goes out into the world as a living Christian witness. Yeah? And it just keeps expanding exponentially over the last 2000 years, and hopefully for another 2000 years, yeah, or whatever. God decides to call this whole thing done when we get the ending part, Jesus comes again, right? But God says cut. That's it. You know, it was great. It was great. So as we sit out, there are a lot of people listening to your message on Sunday, awesome, right? You had some visitors come from the police department that you kind of noted on Sunday too, which were great other retirees, yeah, that's great. That's right, kind of hearing some things going on. But we have a segment here where we actually hear notes from people who are in the congregation, and we call that segment Roseanne and Roseanne, we have heard that you really got a lot out of the message from Tom, I did. I wasn't even here. That's, yeah, I know. So that means you watched online. People you watched online. Oh, that's wonderful. Okay, that's great. Now, what did you take away? Do you have a couple notes for us to discern from those who watched online? I loved that. Tom titled it two gifts, a warning and a mission. I want you to talk more about that, but so my notes were, what advice would you give to graduates about their faith as they step out into the onto out onto their own? Mm, hmm, and my advice would be, stay true to your path with God and stay true to yourself. And because it's so easy to be influenced either by social media or by friends, who are you know, you have your friends that you grow up with, and then you go away to college, and it's like you're exposed to people of different backgrounds, and it's so easy to be influenced certain ways. And just like the water in our mud pit out here, it kind of just, what what are you to a mud pit? What it finds its own path and wrecks the playground. And so you mean the fun Adventure Land, yeah? It's an adventure playground. It's an adventure playground. Yeah, okay, mud pit. To fun pit. Yay, so, but they can easily just find that path of least resistance. And what you don't want is for them to do that. You want them to stay the course. But that's what God wants all of us to do, is stay the course. You know you're going through a hard time right now. You're going through a rough time. You're going through sorrow. Stay the course. He'll be with you. That's great. That's great. Table. What advice would you give to graduates? She was talking about the advice that we would give ourselves to graduates. I shared some advice for Tom on on your ordination night, kind of one to one, but should kind of relate to everyone. I can share a little bit more about, yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, Tom and I've been rolling together for years. So there's, there's a lot there, but table, what about you? What's some advice that you would have for graduates that are coming through? I think, I mean, it's not different than than Roseanne. I'd say the that. Of course, it's very easy to be influenced. Bo goes so far as to say that it's impossible not to be influenced. And the question then is, what are you allowing to influence you? And I think that's how you you kind of stay the path. You know, the Jesus in this passage that we read, He says, I sanctify Myself, which is itself confusing, because so often, like what we understand is sanctification in our in our sort of Christian or evangelical worlds, it means that you you're just a good a good boy or a good girl. You know you're a saint. You know you're holy. You don't like you don't do all of the things you're not supposed to do. But that's not quite what sanctification is, because obviously, if that, if it were, then Jesus would already be sanctified. So why would he tell what? Would he say that he himself is becoming sanctified? It's a is, you know we're this whole passage, we're talking about the word, the word world. There is Cosmos, right? Which is, that's the Greek, it's the it's it means the universe. It means this, the created order. And there's a separation between the creator and the creation that is inherent to this biblical story. God created creation. He's not a part of creation. He's not a God that that emerged from creation, but he himself out of nothing, created the created order the cosmos. And so as God created this in order to inhabit this place with us. And so he sets up his tent or his tabernacle here with us. And so the whole story is, how are we getting back to that after the fall, right? How are we continuing to look for and live in such a way as that we are welcoming God back into our world. And so when Jesus says, I sanctify Myself, is He? Is? He is setting, as Paul says, He is setting his mind on the things that are not of this world, but are of the Creator. Paul says, Set your mind on the things of the Spirit, and that's how you are sanctified. And so I'd say, if you're wondering what, what is going to influence you, that is, what are the things that you pay attention to? What are, what are the things that your mind is drawn to on a given on any given day? Because you can, anybody can wax lyrical about their plans and hopes and dreams, but really, what your plans and hopes and dreams are are the things you think about when you're not trying to think about anything. You know that's it's the very bottom of where your heart is and where your heart is is where your treasure is, as Jesus himself said. And so the question is, what influences you, is where your heart is, and where is your heart like? What do you think about all the time? If all you think about is money, that is your God, yeah, you know, if all you think about is what's on Netflix, then entertainment is your God. And you might be just erasing yourself into oblivion in this world, and that is definitely not what Jesus calls us to do as people who are to be sanctifying ourselves too. So sanctifying ourselves like Jesus Himself did, is setting our minds on the things of our Creator, and that's what we think about. And you know, Psalm one says, set your blessed is he who meditates on the law of the Lord day and night. You know, he's planted by streams of water. I'd say, then if, if that's where your heart is, then that's what you're allowing to influence you. And so then that is how you're sanctifying yourself. That's how you can, of course, go through the many difficult, the difficulties of this life, and be protected from the evil one and and press into Christian community with brothers and sisters who are also trying to do that. And that's how I think you can stay the course and hopefully see the great day where the Lord finally completes his his work. I think it's important what voices we allow ourselves to listen to. And in college, it's difficult if they go to college or workforce, because they're going to work with people that are maybe supervisors, people are supposed to look up to that have a very different view that maybe, whether consciously or not, pulling them away professors that are going to be teaching things that are contradictory to the Christian truth. You know, and you know, Jesus said that you're, you know, Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth. We're to be sanctified in the Word of God. So it's important to hear voices that are repeating the word of God. God to us, it's like campus ministry is so important, but it's harder if they're going straight into the workforce. You know, the military has Chaplain sees the their their campus ministries, but the kids that go straight into the workforce, they're kind of thrust into this world of the the people around them. That's why they need to be. That's why we have to be in a in a community of faith, so that we can hear these voices to counteract all the other stuff in the world, because it's God's Word that sanctifies us, and God's Word in Jesus that comes to us. It's God's work coming to us to do this on our behalf. But if we're constantly turning away from it and turning to all the other voices, and that's what echoes in our in our head, and it's hard for, I mean, the kids don't realize that yet, for people who turn away, there's always something missing, and they're trying to find that there's a level of discord. This passage brought to mind, I don't know if, well, you probably get, if you guys read The Silmarillion, I can't imagine. It's a kind of a nerdy you know, the Silmarillion. The Silmarillion starts with just, just this beautiful sort of narrative recounting a sort of a creation story. Of, you know, this is prior to Middle Earth, you know, yeah, whatever age I forget, but it's, it's essentially God, you know, Arda is the story in the in the summer million but the creation story is, is Arda is decides that he wants to create a world, and in order to do that, he starts singing a song, and he creates the Valar, which are these, these being, sort of angelic beings that he surrounds himself with, and he asks them to sing the same song in harmony, until one little valor decides to sing his own song. Yeah, right. And, you know, obviously, yada yada yada, Sauron, right. He that's such a beautiful story to me, because it really paints a picture of our actual creation. You know, there is a song, there is a sequence, a frequency, there is an environment of the soul, which, which is it? Which is a harmony that God is singing, you know? And the question is, Are Are we aligning to that particular song, or are we going off on our own, trying to sing our own song? And and what that story encapsulates is that when you do that, when you go off and start to sing your own song, destruction and decay starts to happen in small little ways, but it becomes bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger like an avalanche, right? And so the our work as Christians is to come back and and learn to join and the and the choir, if you will, of Christ. You know, I love that language about harmony, because I was thinking as you were talking before about kind of the step in, like, Who are you listening to, and who is the world, and who is your influence, and where your mind is and your heart is, is where your influence is at in the world. And I thought, but so many people are lost in that, right? So many people exist in that on a daily basis, right? To say, hey, switch your heart to the word you know, like, as it says in here, it's sanctified by the truth. You know that sanctification and made holy is really, you know, the cross with Jesus Christ, right? That's the sanctifying myself as the cross, right? There's a choice in that. And so that sanctification and made holy, then we have the truth. And then the truth is Jesus Christ, right? And that word that we rest on. And so with that truth, that's a hard language, though. It's a hard language for people to go from the world, right, that they're in and fully in, and be like, hey, go to the truth. And you're like, well, that changes my life, like that changes how I exist, right? It changes my daily interaction with the world, if you just want me to go to the truth, right? And I think about this harmony, and I think about people who are in choirs who don't have harmony, right? And they're like, Look, I need the melody for a little bit. I just, I just need to sing with everyone, right? And feel that, and then teach me the harmony, like, teach me how to be in harmony with everyone else, and let me extend into the different groups where I have influence, and different things like that. And I think there's a language there about how we as Christians go into the world, right? Like, we need to go into the world understanding that we're moving people out of comfort, right? We're moving people out of complacency, right, out of conforming to the world, and saying, Hey, don't conform, right? Like, change in this way and move in this way. And it's small steps all throughout. And I think that's why this never ends right until Christ comes again. It's this language of, hey, you're not gonna see me for a little while. You're gonna be on your own, right? It's almost Christ saying, hey, it's now your turn to take on the truth, right? It's now your turn to change your life, right? I've given you this example, I've shown you the path, and then we start to move from that. And, yeah, I think this is an incredible text for that. And so you kind of named it two gifts, right? A warning and a mission, right? What can you talk us through? What are the two gifts? What's the warning and what's the mission? Yeah. First I gotta give the observation that you know, talk about the disciples being sent out at this time with Christ that you know, I'm not going to be with you much longer. Yeah? And when you're sending out our high school seniors, parenting is over, yeah? Thing. And now they've got to go make. Their own choices for the for the good and the bad. And you know, which is why they need those communities to help them, right? Help them be lifted up. But, yeah, but they go into the world with with two gifts, yep, first they they go out into the world having the Word of God. Yup, the word of God and the Scriptures, the word of God. They can hear preach. Should hear preached on a Sunday because there's so there's so much out there that the world out there that tries to preach other things to them that it's important for them to go to a place where they can be rooted in the word of God being proclaimed, which is ultimately the responsibility of a preacher is a herald of the good news that they have, that they have that relationship. They have the access to the Scriptures. They have the relationship with the embodied word of God and Jesus, and that's a huge gift. The other it's, I think, the most important gift any human being has ever received in all of creation is that Jesus prayed for them, and hopefully that they'll go into the world, realizing that on the night he was about to suffer a most horrible death, he sat in the garden at night, and he prayed an intercessory prayer for them. And I don't, can't think of any better, more important, more powerful prayer any human being can ever receive than a prayer from Jesus Christ. And that that is a huge gift, that I think that it's so easy to forget that, that we've been we've been given. And then the warning is that you know the world's going to hate you if you follow Jesus, which is kind of ominous, because the you know, the disciples probably didn't realize that right away, but as things went on, they began to realize that, especially once you know the stoning of Stephen and on from there, that there were things that the world tried its best to destroy, this thing known as the way, yet it it still is. Mm, hmm. And that continues today, in some ways, not so much. In we're going to stone you if you admit to being a Christian, but that, yeah, you're a Christian, and this is what, what you're compelled to do, and how you're compelled to behave because your faith. And we're going to do everything we can to draw you away from that through social media, the internet, temptations to substances, to, I mean, all kinds of ways. Yeah, the world's gonna try to act against you in that. Well, this career, this career, bring you so much money, and especially social media, you know, your glory, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's, doesn't, it's not, not all negative. Some of it is like, you know, go take this career path, and you'll be set for life. Yeah, the American dream, yeah, yeah, which, which is fine and good, as long as you don't make it your God, right? As long as you don't make that, you know, your firm foundation, you know, you don't. You've got to stay with what your true foundation is and enjoy all the gifts that God has given us in the world, but without turning them into into an idol. Yeah, yeah. No, go ahead. That reminds me, I don't know if ever read there's, there's a popular level book called The courage to be disliked. I've signed them not read it. It's, I just looked at this like two weeks ago, like a Japanese name, yeah, it's a it's a fun book. It's essentially grabbing, sort of the the thought of at one of the Adler, one of the first psychologists with, you know, Jung and Freud. And essentially, we don't need to get into the whole the details of it, but the title kind of says it all. And the idea is, if you're not willing to face being disliked by people, you're essentially not free in any real sense. That doesn't mean that you're actively seeking out being disliked by people, but if you can't stomach it, you are unable to be free to do anything. You know, if that, then you're unable to be happy. Yeah, you're exactly you're unable to Who do you? How do you define who you are? You know is it? Is your identity reliant on people liking you, yeah, and you being popular and thinking you're super awesome? Or is your identity, which is why, like in in relationships, up with people. You know, I've told people before that have gone through relationships is broken up, that until you're happy being single, you'll never be happy in a relationship. It's true. And I didn't get that advice. I read it somewhere in a in a book, right? But when we go out into the world, if we can root ourselves and knowing that we belong to God, that we are Christians, and that's our identity, then if somebody doesn't like us, well, yeah, I'm sorry you feel that way, but Okay, yeah. But if we're, if you're crushed by that, it's because you don't have that, that firm foundation. And I think that's why Jesus says, I mean, you need to expect that you will come up against tension, yeah, in that way. And that's, and that's a normal part. It's, you know, it's a feature, not a bug, of you actually taking a stance and trying to it's kind of like when psychologists talk about, or counselors talk about setting boundaries. You know, they always say, when you start to set boundaries, people, who are you? Used to you not having boundaries, will, will will dislike it very strongly, and they'll protest. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't set those boundaries, right, right? You need in order to grow, you need to to make decisions, regardless of whether or not you're pleasing people. But I think the boundaries too, that come in, right, are creating boundaries to create back to yourself with God, right? Like, those boundaries are guiding you back in, and they should teach at the same time they're setting boundaries, detecting that really, yeah, right. Like the Yeah, the parts when we get frustrated people's boundaries, we're usually frustrated ourselves for not having the same hopefully healthy boundaries that other people are having, right? And hopefully that frustration is only from seeing someone set that in a holistic way, right? That says, Hey, I'm setting this in a holiness, sanctified way to set myself apart, right? And if you're trying to gather me back in, then I can't do that, right? I can't come into that. I think because I know you've got, I may have finished the the mission parks. I know I want to see what your other notes are, no, so the third one is the third one is the mission. Yeah, right. And that's the priesthood of all believers that as Jesus has been sent in the world, Jesus has sent all of us in the world, not just Joe and I and Roseanne and table, but everybody has been sent into the world by Christ for a purpose. No matter how big or seem or a small society may see it. We're all sent for that purpose and a reflection of Christ in the church. I think we could reinforce that every single Sunday, and it would still need to be reinforced every single Sunday. Yeah, right, the fact that it's not you and I up here, I mean, you made a big point about that on Sunday, which I thought was great, that it's, it's not you or I, right? It we're not the only sake of the church, right? We are literally sending you out into the world, and you're an extension of the neighborhood, but that fails, in comparison, to be an extension of God, right, an extension of Jesus Christ, right? And what happens outside of these walls, and that that distinction, right, needs to be charged and commissioned over and and I think you talked about that a little bit from your ordination, right? But being called and commissioned like you're commissioned, you're sent, right? You're sent for the sake of the world. And that's every single person walking outside of these doors. And I think it goes back into like when you're in the world, no matter where you're at, you have that as your identity, right? Your identity in the world is that whatever workplace you're in, whatever friend group you're in, whatever social environment you're in, you are there representing Christianity, right? 24/7 and I think it's hard for people to understand. It's even hard for me to understand in the world. I mean, I'm seen as a pastor, pretty generally, for the people that know me and but like when I went to mission in Uganda, right, was sitting in mission in Uganda, and it's great. And I'm there on mission. I'm there representing Christ, I'm there learning about the mission. I'm there helping out villages Great. All these things are very holy. They're very Christian, right? That sounds great. And we sat down at the lodge at the end of the night, when we're going to kind of the safari through Uganda and visiting God's creation. We sat down, and the group that was from across me was from the UK, right? And they were talking, and we sat with another group of people from like the Middle East, and it was just this great conglomeration of different people groups, right? And they looked and they said, Well, why do you try to bring Western Christianity over here? And I was like, Well, I'm just a Christian. Like, no, but you represent Western Christianity. And I was like, Oh, I'm and it was the first time someone had looked at me and said, you represent Christianity, right? Like you represent the whole of a religion, right? Like, so why are you bringing like, it was a it was a charge, it was a question. It was almost a statement against, like, what are you doing here that's so important that you think it's valued here, right? And I really stepped back for a second, because I was like, Oh, I'm really representing in this small moment, in this small group of eight people, Western Christianity, right? It's not just the neighborhood. It's not just a Uganda trip. It's not our group that we're on, right? We represent Christ. And why do we need Christ in other areas of the world? And why do they need to hear about Christ? And what does that mean? And I think there's two sides of that. Is one people making people think that Christianity there has to look like it looks here, you know, because then we get into like, kind of the colonial aspect, issue that, because Jesus was not a a white European, you know, you know, a mid 30s, Middle Eastern male, right? So it looks very different than people think when you see images of white Jesus, yes, like white, blue eyed. Jesus, white, blue eyed. Yeah, you know, European features like, No, it just we have, you know, we see that reflection ourselves in that reflection, which is okay, but that it's a everybody else's reflection. That's why all human beings are created in the image of God, not, you know, not just here, which is why when we we go do those things, those trips like that, we have to set aside cultural norms, because it's a, it's a fine line for us, because Christianity has become enculturated to a point that people can't always show the tell the distinction between what is a cultural issue and what is a faith issue, because and ultimately, and you're right, ultimately, my goal is not to be seen as a pastor. Yeah, I don't want people to. To recognize immediately that I'm a pastor. I'd rather just them recognize that I'm a Christian, yeah? Because that, yeah, that's true. Yeah, you do, yeah. Come on now you wear it out, yeah? But it gives it has a it has a place. I mean, I wear a uniform as a police officer, so that when I show up something going on, they know my purpose. And so when you wear the collar in certain instances, it defines your purpose, and it it greases some wheels, make some things easier to do, like when some context you need to, you know, sometimes wear the stole or the it sets you apart to know who you are, what your purpose is there, but it doesn't even give you any greater ability or power. Yeah. And so the best thing anybody can aspire to is not being a pastor or a bishop or the Pope, but just to be seen as a Christian. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. When I've told this story before, but when I worked at Walmart at store level, people would certain. People would come up to me and say, can you just add into your prayers. And I never, I never said anything about being Christian or, you know, because I didn't know if that was acceptable, especially when I first started there. So, you know, it was, it was not something that I walked in like Joe would come into the store all energy. But I didn't walk in and go, I'm Christian, and I'm here to save everyone, but people would ask me to pray for them, or pray for a situation, or pray with them. I had a lady that was in my line, and my goal as a cashier was to get everybody through as fast as possible. So but had a lady that was telling me about things going on in her life, and the lady behind her, what kind of jumped in the conversation, and we had a little impromptu prayer circle right there. And it was amazing that is the priesthood of all believers. And I love that, that I get to be that wherever I'm at and and I don't wear collar a clerical color. Get her one. Yeah, that's great. Priest of all believers, make it pink. I was in Oklahoma City this past weekend, and we were there, and on Friday, we decided to go out and go shopping and different things like that. And we ended up in a shopping center out in front of REI, another rugged outdoor store. Apparently, that was just my jam this last weekend. And so we ended up in front of the store, great. We bought some shoes for Kaylee, different things like that. Landon got some clothes. Great. We're coming out, and we're sitting in the car and we're getting ready to find our next destination, right? And we're talking with the family, right? And Katie looks at me, and she's in the back seat. She goes, there's a guy coming to the door. And I was like, what? And I'm just looking, I was like, What do you mean, right? And I turned to the left, and there's this guy just coming straight for the car, right? Like, we're in the parking lot in a big, you know, one of those huge, like, there's like, nine stores in this, like, shopping center, and this comes right, and I could see that obviously unhoused, right, and come into the door, right and and so I rolled down the window, and he goes, Hey. He goes, You know, I got a wife, and, you know, I got kids, and I just need some money for food, you know, for lunch and everything else like that, because you got cash on you. And that morning, I'd found cash in my bag, and I'd put it in my pocket, and I never carry cash. And I was like, God is good. I was like, let's go and so, but in like, a teaching moment for Kayleen Landon, right to hand cash is not, I think, the relationship that God calls us to right? It's to see someone for who God sees them as, right? And so I got out of the car and I just said, Hey, can I pray with you, like, Can I, can I talk with you about what's going on in your life and everything's like? And we talked for a good couple minutes, right? And he told me about his wife and things that are going on. Asked for prayer. Ask for prayers, but you could see in his face the difference in, like, someone wanting a relationship, right? And saying that I care about you for like, what's going on in your life, versus just like the pass through moment. And I think that's the difference, right? It's the stop in the line. It's, I'm gonna take time with you. It's, hey, the world is going on, but we're gonna set ourselves apart from the world for a second. World for a second, and the world's going to keep on hustling and bustling and doing all that kind of stuff, but we're going to stop for a second, right? And we're going to go into, I hope this church never gets too big, because there is, there is anonymity and loneliness in a crowd. Mm, hmm. Oh yeah. And out in society, you have people that are part of the unhoused community, that are sitting there not knowing what to do, and people walk right by them and never look at them. Yeah, they're not seen or acknowledged, yeah. And you can walk into a huge, crowded room like a convention center or a huge, like mega church, and nobody look at you, yeah, and go in and sit down and go through the whole, you know, our service or whatever, and then leave and not really be part of the community, because things get too big and it just changes people, you know, you have to have, there's a certain size, there's a limit to how big you can be and and people actually be friendly in a community. Community? Yeah, absolutely. You get lost in the crowd all of a sudden. So I'm curious Roseanne, what? Yeah, and if I. Notes. Rose notes, well, do you feel like we don't say table note number two, thanks table for joining. Gotcha. Do you feel like you belong to the world? And I thought that wording was interesting. Do you belong to the world? I belong in the world, but I don't belong to the world. I've never, never felt like I fit in so but, but I am loved, and I know that, yeah, because if you feel like the goal is to fit in, then we're trying to belong to the world, right, instead of belonging to God, right in in the world, absolutely, absolutely, and that, that is a huge difference. And I think it's hard with kids right now with social media, because they're trying to, they're, they're, it's easy to be to fall into temptation of seeing themselves through that lens, of trying to be partner, because they all want to, you know, they get to a point where they, you notice, they all come to youth on Wednesday nights. And there's certain trends that hit, like the Uggs when that first came out. That's right, yeah, all the girls were wearing it, and then the Stanley Cup thing came in. Oh, okay, it's all sudden. It's the Stanley Cup crowd. They're all coming in the exact same thing, because nobody wants to look. Oh, man, I thought you're talking about hockey for a second. You're talking about the Stanley Cups. Yeah, the mugs, yeah. Awful. Crocs. Oh, man, crocs. Tom wears crocs. I've been wearing crocs for 20 years, yeah, but only for 20 years. Do you guys wanna hear funny story about crocs? Guys, when you're funny story about crocs, I'll tell you a funny story. Blade Runner, original Blade Runner, back in, gosh, what was it? It's gotta be 70s, 80s. Why are you like, I'm sorry. Okay, so Blade Runner comes out. They're planning for Blade Runner, and they're doing the costumes for all the people in the future. And they found this small company that had these really funky shoes, and they said, Look, these shoes will never hit the market, but they're really funky and they look futuristic, and so we're going to put them on all of our cast. So that way it's like a future or something. You know what? They were, crocs, right? I kid you not. Kid you not. Now, I'm almost positive it's Blade Runner. I got a one was positive Blade Runner, but it is a sci fi movie meant for the future where crocs are the shoe that's used for all the future population. And so that's the note, like, right now. Like, that movie hit. Like, nailed it 20 years, 30 years ago. So, yeah, so crocs came out in the market, according to Google, in 2002 Oh, interesting, because so current was born in oh one, and I got pictures of him when he's like, maybe two or three years old, wearing bright orange crocs, nice. Oh, my God, for that long. Oh, and I've been wearing it that long. Oh, wow, yeah, he'll kill me for saying this. But my daughter thought crocs were the best shoes for potty training because they were so easy to clean. Yo, yo, yeah, it's great on their feet. Just hold them off. It's all day. So my grandson will probably kill me. He won't listen great. But once you go back, once you do it, you can never go back. I mean, it's just, it's the perfect house shoe. I am committed to stay away. I don't own a pair. I don't own a pair of crocs. Yeah, when you're at home and nobody's looking, and then you're like, I'm gonna try it just because I'm curious. And you're like, then you have to go on knowing that you can't ever wear those things like they smell. No, they don't. There's no smell because of the material. It's better than when you feel like Birkenstocks or leather sandals or something burning. Stocks do look like this smell, those will get a smell. Crocs don't. And you can just, like, hose them out if you need to. You can have your feet so you can, yeah, pretty much if you're in the pool and you kick them off in the water, they float and you just put them back on and curious how we got to this, you so the last one was, I gotta find it here. Oh, what does it mean to you when the Scripture says, be sent into the world like Jesus was, and that's just witness. Be a witness. And you don't necessarily have to do it with words. It's actions, it's kindness, it is acknowledgement. Yeah, so many ways that you can do that without using words. And for an introvert like me, that's great. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, there you go, Pastor. Tom, great. First message out of the gate. Fantastic. Roseanne had some wonderful notes from listening to it. And I'm excited to hear you as you grow into this new identity as pastor, but not a new identity as a Christian, right, and as a member here at TNC and as a staff person here at TNC coming up through the life of the neighborhood church. We're excited to have you join us. I think it's going to be an incredible journey going forward and and I know that many people have already been impacted by your ministry, and there's many lives that have been changed by the words that you share in the leadership that you have. And so I just want to say, welcome. It's fantastic to have you on and coming on. And I think many people will continue to be impacted by our ministry. And so today, that is the TNC podcast, And all God's people said. Hey.