SPEAKER_00 0:15

Ah, Mini MBA brand manager, how are you? Welcome to session five, our final QA together. Lots going on. So I got back from Cannes yesterday. Massive jet lag. Sorry, we're doing the QA late, but I couldn't do it Friday, Saturday. I was on a plane and Saturday didn't happen. You lose a day flying from where I was in the end, which was Switzerland to Australia. So we're doing it as soon as we can. Um Cam was good, good chat with Byron, lots of good sessions. I thought it was very well done this year, usual blah blah blah. You can read all about it everywhere else. I won't bore you with it. Um but generally the themes were lots of stuff on creators, not much talk of creativity, which was interesting, and less on AI as well. So kind of interesting to see it changing a bit. Now, on the program, very important. You've got your brand plans in in one state of disarray or another. It doesn't matter, you're not great on your brand plans. So before we get into our QA, which we'll talk about 30 minutes, let me step you back and just remind you what's going to happen one more time, just so we're all in the clear. Okay. So here we are, scrolling upwards. Here we are, right here in our QA. Okay. And we'll talk a little bit about your questions in a minute. You've submitted your brand plan or not. If you haven't, you just relax for a couple of weeks now. So you put your brand plan in, and then what's going to happen today at 12 o'clock English time, and you don't have to rush because you've got access then for nearly two weeks is the simulator tile will open. It will only open if you've submitted a brand plan. If you didn't submit a brand plan, you're off now for as we set in the module for a couple of weeks. But if you submit a brand plan, this will open up to you at midday British time. And you've now got just under two weeks to run the simulation. Now, a couple of points here. I'm not going to explain the sim here. Everything is going to be explained very nicely in the simulator tile. Yeah? So when this opens up, there's a big video from me walking through everything. And I mean everything in great detail. So start there. Also, you've got loads of time, okay? The the actual uh simulation itself, you could do it in two hours. I wouldn't advise doing it in two hours, but you could. It's not it's not a huge task. But if you want to think it through, my advice is do one day per year at the very maximum. And then have a think about it. Yeah. And that will take you, once you get the hang of the simulation, which takes an hour or so to get your head around, it will take you 10 minutes to actually input. It's about thinking. So don't get addicted to the simulation. The most important thing, and I mentioned this when when you see the introductory uh walkthrough, is take your time. You've got two almost two weeks to do something that takes a few hours. But I'm I'm hoping you'll take a bit of time and think about it. That certainly the people who do best stretch it out. Okay? So you're under no time pressure now. That's the first thing. Second thing is bring your um your existing brand plan that you've built into the simulation. It's based on the same universe, you've done lots of nice work on it. Don't throw that away and get lost in it. The simulator is a lot more simple once you get to grips with it than your brand plan. So simplify it and run it as you wish. Third, and there's no easy way for me to say this, but last night, um uh Johan Gruber resigned from uh running uh Mojo. Um, it's a big shock. He's off to work for Tremendous as their CMO, so he's actually becoming a competitor. Um, and what it means is we are going into the next five years without someone running the marketing for Mojo. So the executive board were unanimous in uh basically promoting you overnight to a new role, which is CMO of MW. And that now means you have responsibility for both brands. So in the simulation, you'll be managing two brands, not one. And you have total profit responsibility. You can do whatever you like. You're the CMO. The budget won't change, okay? How you allocate it can change, and you may decide for whatever reason that one of your two brands, you're gonna effectively kill it by giving it no investment. I would pause and think carefully about that. That's a major decision, right? But in theory, you could do it. Um, but now you're effectively managing two brands. So step back and have a little think about that because when you get into the simulator now, you're gonna be entering a strategy for both brands. Okay. Think carefully how you want to do that. The game has just changed, right? Sorry about that, but there you go. One last surprise. We want it, you know, you've got two balls to juggle all of a sudden. Juggle them well. Um, so what's gonna happen is you've got uh 10, 11 days, how many days is it? You've got till Friday, right? The week after next. Way loads of time. So pause, take your time, enjoy it, and think about it. Okay. The only thing I'm gonna say is when you finish on the simulator, take some screenshots of your share price, of your market share, of your final performance. Take something that summarizes what you've done and post it on our LinkedIn group with any of your final lessons because it's really useful. I love reading them, and I think all the other class will. Yes, you're about to see the simulation is very advanced. Everyone's gonna have a different adventure depending on the decisions you make. So share your journey at the end. Yeah, is is my is it makes it fun. And whether it's a good share price or a bad share price at the end, tell us how you did. Yeah. Okay, so that's gonna take us up for the next two weeks. I'll jump in if there's any potent questions. And what's gonna happen on July the 20th is two things. These two tiles will open up. I will drop there a course conclusion, which will do two or three different things. It'll summarize the course, it will walk through the right answer for the simulation exercise, and it will point out the grade splits of how we graded everyone and pick on the the 10 or 11 best performers and talk about why and who they are. Okay. So it's a really nice sort of one-hour conclusion. Then we'll talk about you know future directions for brand managers and what you might want to do next with your time. All of that will be covered. So that's a nice cap start. Now, you don't have to rush over there on July 20th. It drops the morning of the 20th. It's going to be there until we close the whole platform, which will close on July 31st. You've got 11 days to access it. And remember, through this whole period of simulations and course conclusions, this whole platform remains open. Okay. The other thing that happens on July 20th is you get your certificate, and your certificate will be available with or without grade, depending on how you feel about it, and depending whether you did the simulation. Okay? So all that's still to happen. I'm not going to conclude anything today. We've got another session to go. Does that make sense? And all the simulation questions I'm getting now, I'm just going to cover in the simulation session, okay? Which we will cover in more than enough detail as you'll see. So let's do our QA and I'll give you a few final tips before we finish off. Sarah, you mentioned in the previous QA that you and the team were working on a bonus module on AI. Is that still the case? Yes, it is still the case. We are planning it as we speak, and um, it will happen in that gap between finishing the simulation and the course conclusion, and you'll be notified on the LinkedIn site and it'll just appear here and you can access it anytime. I I'm literally now speaking to people in the next three hours about how we do it and who does it with me. Okay, so it's coming. You'll forget about it for now. We're worried about the simulation. We will have a good session on it on AI coming as well. Lots to cover there. Alina, when setting brand tracking objectives, for example, increase agreement that moon is ideal for work from number to number, or grow uniqueness of max moon asset. How do we calculate the annualized retail revenue? The annualization calculator seems designed for funnel objectives. Is there a different approach for perception and distinctive asset objectives? Yeah. Um, I face the problem that I've got many objectives which I can't calculate. Yeah, okay. There's two approaches to this, Selena, and it's not that dissimilar from the real world. The first way is you link your broader objective, for example, um, the association with ideal for work, with the fact that it's going to drive consideration and then measure the consideration goal. The second, probably more honest approach is you recognize that there isn't an immediate value to that, even though it's strategically very valuable long term, and you carry it with your other objectives and you put zero value against it. Both are legit approaches. You have to decide in the real world and in moon which one you think is the more appropriate. Rebecca, if we target one segment in our brand plan as a main focus for that year and have a secondary segment for year one until RD is complete, is there room in the SIM to then adjust approach that secondary segment after year one more heavily? Yeah, definitely. You can absolutely move weightings around. Um, whether you want to do that strategically is a bigger question, but you certainly can. David, so much traditional marketing theory is anchored in consumer goods, and B2B marketers famously love to claim their world is completely different, and in doing so, skip the hard work and benefit of brand building. I think all of that's true. For someone joining the marketing department of a complex B2B organization, like one of the big four consultancies, what is the one core truth from this course we should fight for the hardest? And what advice would you have for them as they start their new role? Great question. I would say it's salience uber alice. Yeah. I think salience remains the most important goal. And I think B2B marketers tend to hide from it. I think the 90, well, I know the 95.5 rule came from B2B, and the data that's been done subsequently shows that in B2B, at least 70%, another study suggests 80% of the brands that come to mind first in the 95% are absolutely the ones you buy when you get to the 5%. And it there may be a long, complicated, rationalized buying process, but magically, one way or another, 78% of the brands that you're thinking of when you go into that process come out winning at the end. So I think salient supply, we get a lot of people in B2B saying, oh yeah, but that's for like low involvement stuff. In high involvement stuff, it's you know, no, no. The process might be more circuitous, but the outcome is exactly the same. So salience does carry the same weight in B2B, and I think that makes it, therefore, the most important objective in B2B. And we don't talk about that enough. Poo yeah. Uh dear Mark, some of us have had to race through the modules due to work. Work, you say? Your video lectures are exceptionally simplified and made the knowledge easy to digest. I still think they're too long, Pooja, but thank you. Time to time refreshers, though, would be great. Is there any way one can have access to them after the course is completed? Oh my god, still asking this. Okay, I'm gonna say for the 400th time, I love you, Pooya. I love you, but here we go again. You ready? You will, on graduating from this course, even with a terrible grade, become part of our alumni. As part of our alumni, you will be granted eternal access to all these materials, not just now, but as they update and change for the rest of your life. Everyone in the course has access to all of the classes forever and ever. Okay? And by next year, they will upgrade and upgrade and upgrade. So your knowledge will upgrade too. So when you do a positioning job, you can come back for free and access the positioning class of the future. Okay? I promise. So yes is the answer. Again, uh, hi Mark. Being a creative in the industry for 30 years, this course is a fantastic formalization of all the knowledge learned over the years with some solid structure. As a creative director at the core, the topic of brand codes excited me very much and got me thinking. In the crowded content space that we live in today, where funnels are usually sometimes complete, completely with one creative video, how does one enforce brand codes across reels and TikToks? Has any brand managed to do this successfully? Is there any methodology that you could suggest? Well, that's bang on the money for Ken. So we did a couple of things in Cannes. First of all, one of the things I was worried about is we've got lots of names for brand codes. Distinctive brand assets, fluent assets, um, fluent devices, uh, well-branded. So I proposed in the Byron debate that we settle on one uh particular uh terminology for it because we're confusing new marketers. And Byron had actually agreed, uh, as long as it's distinctive brand assets. So I'm giving up on Brand Coes. It's the same thing, as you know, um, in order to make life easier for everyone. And I've asked everyone else to do the same thing. So we're going to rename everything Distinctive Brand Assets in honor of Ehrenberg Bess as of next year. That's one thing I'm trying to do to help. Your other point, though, is also pertinent. I did a session for TikTok um looking at exactly the question that you're raising. And Andrew Tyndall's doing some done some good work here, and then I used System One data um to look at TikTok ads specifically. Because they're short and attention is waning, the data's very clear. If you want distinctive messages, even with creators, on TikTok, in the first two seconds, you need four distinctive brand assets to be present. And the ones that work best are what do you know? Uh character and some form of sonic device or thing. Others work well, but they tend if you put your logo in the middle of it, it works really well, but then it you lose attention after that. So there is some work there. If you look up Andrew Tyndall's new work on um TikTok and distinctiveness, it'll you'll discover something on the interweb. But I did that session um uh last week for TikTok, and we will almost certainly include it as part of the session I'm doing tomorrow from can on what we covered from can. Okay. So um it will be there. It will be there. Um so tune in tomorrow, and if you look on the LinkedIn group you'll and search for me, you'll find we've got a big invite somewhere to a session that that that brings up the uh sort of what I talked about at Cannes. Elizabeth, you mentioned the importance of codifying everything. Do I? Do I? Um how might this translate to something like user-generated content for social, especially for services offerings? How might we balance the performance boost of ads that look digitally native with ads that look less native, more salesy? Ooh, Elizabeth, you're asking me the same question. So it's confirming I need to talk about it tomorrow. Yeah, there's a trade-off, Elizabeth, on on these kinds of platforms between being distinctive and turning off the viewer. And it turns out, as I just mentioned, that brand characters and sonic devices are the most useful in terms of being distinctive, but not switching off the audience either. Um, but tune in tomorrow and we'll we'll talk about it a bit more. It's really good stuff. Uh, Maria. Uh I'm in one of the first QA's, you said something about the possibility of to test evidence as aim AI market advanced for mini MBA alumni. Super curious. Yeah, we start a beta test in September. We're only looking for about 20 marketers or brand managers to go through that beta test. You will absolutely be invited, Maria, to take part. And the deal will be it'll cost about, I'm guessing, a thousand euros because there are costs involved in this, but you will get a brand plan uh synthetically built, worth a lot more, and you have to give us some feedback on the process and what you think of it. But we are going ahead in September. There'll be a launch around then, and then we'll be recruiting brand managers and marketing managers into that process. So, yeah, the the prototype is finished, and now we're in an beta stage testing. I think, and I'm and we're not there yet, we haven't ironically done the pricing research yet that we're about to do. I think for around 4,000 US dollars, you'll be able, I'll we'll do an annual brand planning session where I'll walk you through brand planning and then you'll have the tool to build the whole brand plan for you. Which seems like a pretty good price to me. But more to come. Beta testing in September, and then from January you can buy it. It's coming. David, sure. We've grown to a sizable business, but brand awareness is low at 60%. It's not bad. And the products tend to be more identifiable than the brand. Also, not, it doesn't have to be bad. Um, we look to build long-term brand awareness. We're looking at potential partnerships with one of the UK's leading sports figures who's aligned with target consumers and brand DNA. Would you see that as a risk to establishing our brand more clearly in the minds of our consumers or as a way to unify the brand more consistently? It's a good question, David. You tend to want to do these longer-term partnerships with athletes because of brand associations. So typically, it doesn't do any add to brand awareness, but more often than not, what you're doing with a partnership with someone like this is you're trying to change perceptions of the brand through association. There's a much more likely success path there. The danger, as I'm sure your question hints at, is it could be you have the equivalent of, you know, semiotic vampirism in the sense that when you co-brand or little brand partners with David Beckham, everyone goes, look, there's David Beckham, and no one notices the brand. So I would be cautious here. I think you have to heavily codify it, and you have to be sure that this isn't someone that does lots of stuff for lots of brands and you just disappear into the vacuum. It's certainly not a bad move. I just counsel you that when it comes to tactics, this tends to be more about brand associations and brand awareness. Maria, can you recommend brand valuation credentials or trainings useful in the context of mergers and acquisitions? I've never seen a good training on it, Maria, but I I would we I did the brand finance valuation event the week before last while I was in London. I think if you want to follow anyone, follow the brand finance approach because they do lay it out very clearly how it all works with ISO and everything else. So have a look at brand finance. I think they offer the best pathway. There isn't a specific course, but brand finance is is good. Tina, uh, about front loading our investments in an industry wherein consumers buy 90% during March to July. When should we start advertising? Is that true though? Is that true, March to July? Because I in most industries Christmas sucks up so much. Anyway, right at the beginning of the year, even if the season has not started, how to split the budget across the four quarters? Look, I think you follow consumers with some kind of lag effect preceding them. My caution is more operational. Most brand managers sit on their money and often don't spend all of it. And the earlier you can upload it, I take your point, you need to follow consumers, but you also want to get your runs on the board as much as possible. So there's a balance there, right, between when consumers are buying and you getting early enough to get impact for the year and making sure you spend all your money. So they should be in balance. The point at the moment I'm trying to make is most brand managers that you'd be amazed the proportion that don't spend their budgets or don't spend it until the last minute and blow it on any old shit in the final quarter. So get organized is my point. Certainly you make a good issue around timing, but make sure it's out the door and and planned. Pauline. Uh, question on brand architecture. Because by the way, there's nothing worse in a finance team, and I've seen it happen before, when they're like, right, he he or she fought for this money and they haven't spent it. Why not? Right? That what's going on? It doesn't make sense, right? Pauline. In a house of brands where multiple brands compete in the same category and all with a significant uh uh gross profit contribution, how do you stress test whether they are generally differentiated or strategically redundant? What methodology would you use to make that call? And are there frameworks or further reading you'd recommend for portfolio rationalization? Look, I've given you the best one, which is killer brand, keep a consumer. That's that's for me the the great reading. That's where you should start. Um I well, we didn't I didn't give it to you, but I referenced it in the class. If you if you if you want to download it, you can get it free from HPR. Killer brand, keep a customer, Namalia Kumar. There's a name I haven't said in a while. Good old Namalia. We had some battles, me and Namalia back in the days. Dear me, dismal, dismal arguments. Not a bad chap, but you know, not want to change his mind. Ever. Um, try that. That's the great reading. In terms of how do you assess this? It's a very good question without an answer. Um it it it actually doesn't depend as much on the brands as it does the category. So, in categories where you want a degree of uh variety for what Whatever reason, it can make sense to have multiple brands. Where you're in a category where there isn't the requirement for lots of variety for a particular segment, let's take automotive as so champagne versus automotive. There are different usage occasions, different uh different desire states that consumers have. My old boss at Verve Clico, and I'm sorry if I've told you this old joke before, but she once said to me, I like to drink Verve Clico when I'm with my husband, and I enjoy drinking Don Penon when I'm with my my boyfriend. And her point, I think she was joking, but I'm not sure. Her point was um there's a good there's a good reason why we need variety. When you get to uh automotive, you may need multiple brands because they're multiple segments. But if there's a particular segment that you're serving in automotive, there shouldn't need to be two brands because A, you have a couple of sub brands, they're very expensive to support, and no one's coming around this way again for another seven or eight years. So I would look more at the category dynamics. It certainly can work out that you that it makes sense, but you've really got to look at it carefully. But there isn't some tool you're missing there. Sophie, I'm planning a loyalist survey for my endorsed brand, CPD platform, for my company. How do you decide or find the associations you want people to score you and a competitor on? I'm starting with a logo, the content, and online place, I'm working upwards. Yeah, well, that's qual. It's strategy. You know, I uh my limit I gave you at the start of the course was like 10 attributes, associations, category entry points, whatever you want to call them. And they can come from qual, they can come from existing positioning, they can come from category data. What are the 10 things you want to be strong on, potentially relatively differentiated on, not weak on, qualify on, you know, work backwards from qual and from strategy. You might want to test some of them just to prove they aren't relevant to other people. So that's that's the criterion, criteria. Um, the platform is branded in the same codes as the company, but with a different logo and powered by blah, blah, blah. I'm tasking myself on aligning the two brands closer. As candidates in recruitment companies don't realize it's us, and vice versa. I originally saw the CPD platform as a subbrand, but after the architecture model, I feel that most that it's more of an endorsement. Yeah, very good. I'm not asking you to tell me how to do it here, as I want to work it out for myself. But what jumps out at you that can direct me down the right path? Well, I yeah, I think you have to do it, Sophie, but my strong recommendation is to keep pushing down that spectrum in the sense that you're very boldly saying it isn't a sub brand, it may be endorsed. Why not keep going? Do you need any form of identity other than the parent brand at all? You know what I mean? Or can it be a brand that has different identity and it could be platform from brand? And it isn't really a brand at all. Yeah. I always think back to iPlayer, like BBC iPlayer, right? It isn't a brand, right? It's platform from the BBC, it's part of the BBC. I think you make a strong point to go that far. Finally, I wanted to pick your brain on whether you've ever worked in employment recruitment and any pitfalls you've come across or lessons learned. Yeah, a couple of times. I did MS's employer brand a long time ago. That was a riot. Um your competition isn't the same. It's obviously the competition in the war for talent is different. And the things you position on are different because it isn't buying now, it's recruitment. But as I said to you on the course, being contiguous with the consumer brand offer to consumers versus, you know, when I worked for Flight Center on this, we already had fun as one of the things we were positioning on to the consumer, so we also had fun as something we offered to employees. It isn't always the same, but it should be similar. Because everyone, every employee starts out, maybe not as a consumer, but knowing about the brand from a consumer perspective. Kate, I'm loving the course so far. It's nearly uh the brand plan submission is now open, which is confusing me is the communications budget and RD slides haven't been completed, and we haven't been through these modules yet. So, how are people submitting their brand plans early? This is done on the 14th of June. Yeah, so so there's a couple of things. Uh, you you you can complete them whenever you want now, and you can follow the instructions the back of each module will give you the information. Please can you explain as I'm worried I'm behind and this is already opened. Secondly, please can explain the simulation and what is to be expected. Okay, okay. Unfortunately, Kate, it's too late now for me to help you, but I hope you got the plan in in any state of undress. And then what's going to happen this morning, or whenever you want, when you click on the simulation tile, is it will all open and I will explain to you how it all works. It's very simple and very exciting, and will scare you and thrill you in equal measure as you go through your five years. It really is a lot of fun. So do enjoy it. Jade, I'm loving the course. Thanks so much. Sorry if I missed this, but will we still be able to access all the modules? Yes. Yes. In the alumni, we have a version of the site you'll always be able to access. Yes. Joe, when building custom funnels, is it worth customizing these between channels as well? No. I can imagine our funnel looking different between web, retail, telescales. Should we aim for a unified overarching funnel? Joe then says, when thinking about this further, I think I've made a classic error and confused funnels for tactical execution with the strategic brand funnel. Yeah, very good. Very good, Joe. You worked it out. No, you don't want to break it there. You can break it by segment. Yeah. Um, and that's even that's asking a lot. But no, don't don't don't complicate it too much. Don't complicate it too much. Uh, Jared, and I like the way you've explained your the the silliness of your question. You're absolutely right. It's a tactical funnel. No, no, no. This is a strategic thing. Well done, Joe. That's good. That's good. Jared, when you covered multi-channel communications, you spoke about more channels being better. With this in mind, what's your view on insights from media mixed modeling on channel investment, e.g., minimum thresholds and points of diminishing returns? Are three channels with the right investment better than five channels? Where some of the channels are below the minimum investment threshold? Yes, they are. So you the caveat with all of this diversity of channel stuff is you have to spend enough to get some impact from them. And what you're describing excellently there, Jared, is an S-curve, which MMM is very good at identifying. The only kink in this is I would argue, and a good econometric model will pick this up, even if you don't reach the S at the Apex, at the apex of the S, sometimes getting enough to have impact multiplied by the diversity impacts of multiple channels will beat being at the apex. So sometimes four tools beats three, even though you're under spending on the three. But that's getting into the minutiae. In the ideal world, what we're really talking about is not going way, way, way over into the bend of the S, where it's still going up a little bit, but not much. We're saying, right, got that. Move on, move on, move on. That's that's really what we're talking about. And and a good econometric model should show you that to some degree. Great question. Ella, I saw the QA was rescheduled due to Cannes. Fingers crossed, you're currently enjoying the south of France. I'm already back, Ella. Things have moved fast. I did enjoy it very much. Not as much as I enjoyed driving through France at 200 kilometres an hour with my CEO Tim stopping every evening to jump in a swimming pool and drink incredible amounts of red wine. What was the highlight of Cannes? That was the highlight of Cannes. We got to Burgundy in record time, jumped in a swimming pool. It was 38 degrees at like seven at night, and then we drank so much expensive red wine, it was almost unpleasant. Almost unpleasant. That was great. Uh, which examples of disruptive consistency stood out most to you and why? And what do you think these examples signal about tactical and creative execution and where it's heading over the next few years? There are any emerging themes. Yeah, yeah, good question. Um, who really did it best tactically and execution-wise? Oh god, you are my answer's boring. I so Kit Kat did a Formula One thing where they sponsored the because you know, as we know, Kit Kat is all about taking a break. So Kit Kat sponsored the pit lane at Formula One this year, which no one else wants to sponsor because it's the pit lane. And they're like, wait, when you take a break from the race to change the wheels and stuff, Kit Kat were there. I thought that was just about and no one else wants it, Kit Kat won it. So I thought that was very, as usual, very clever from Kit Kat. And they won the Grand Prix for their work, which kind of makes me feel good too, because I I do think they're fantastic. Um, so they were the winners. Um, general themes, we mentioned it a bit, loads and loads of stuff about creators. I think everyone's losing their shit a little bit. It's clearly a very good new tool, but not till we forget the other tools. It's not going to kill the other tools, yeah. Um, I saw lots of stuff on distinctiveness. I think the message is definitely getting through. There was much less chat about creativity at Cannes, which was weird. And AI has definitely calmed down. They were my main take-homes from the sessions. And generally things are sort of balanced at the moment, which is unusual. Normally it's mental. It was balanced. So they'd be my main themes. But yeah, everyone's finding out creators can work for them, which, you know, fair enough. Jessica, a few questions on the marketing budget allocation. Marketing budget allocation, if we assume that 10% of sales revenues is allocated to the marketing budget, should this budget also include listing fees, for example, feeds related to new products or increasing distribution, or would you consider listing fees a separate investment? It depends, Jess. I would say anything related to the marketing spend that isn't about a promotional fee. So you're slotting fees are a really tricky one because they're sort of in between. But I would be telling if you had to push me, I'd say put them into the 10%. Two, classification of social media. How would you classify social media as a media channel? I would classify it as social media. Carry on. Would you see it mainly as a brand building channel or more as a sales activation channel? Ah, I don't think you should ever classify anything that way. And I made this point at the TikTok event. Most TikTok ads are certainly more performance-based, but TikTok is not a performance channel because the minute you think that way, you're not being media neutral. Anything can be brand building, anything can be performance. Um, it depends on your strategy and what you want from it. Some tools are better. I always think about outdoor. McDonald's can use outdoor advertising to say, in 20 uh in 20 miles, turn left for McDonald's breakfast, and that's very performance. Or they can use it to do one of their, you know, more beautiful, you know, kids that love their dads at McDonald's ads. So the point is don't try and don't try and stereotype any media. It depends how you want to use it. And that's a that's a very good piece of advice, even though I gave it to you. Three, budget split across the funnel. Regarding the split between 60% brand building and 40% activation, if one of our countries already has very high brand awareness, should we still maintain this? Yeah, pretty much. Or would it make more sense to reduce brand building? No, no, you've still got to reinforce. There's lots of factors in it, Jess. I don't think brand awareness brings it down. It just means you have to keep reinforcing it. So no, no, I uh, you know, there are other variables that can affect it, but no. You know, generally speaking, no. Seb, how do you think about launching in thirds, especially pre-launch activities for a new product generation? Won't customers stop buying product version one when they know that version two is around the corner. Sure, we get buzz and great sales, but they would mostly be delayed, realized at launch, no? Yeah, maybe. I mean, when I've worked in that sector and I've done it a couple of times, we've we've portrayed product two as an upgrade. Um, and we've very much, not as well as Apple, but we've managed to pull distribution of one to push the other. So yeah, I think it you you have to take that into account if you're gonna do it. That's a fair comment. Engel. I recently took on a newly created brand manager role in a small fourth-generation German manufacturer of natural textile clothing.

unknown 34:27

That sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

We are vertically integrated and produced entirely in Germany. So for those that don't know, Germany is a bit special for lots of reasons. But one of the special uh reasons, the Deutsche Speciaal uh factor, is um they have these wonderful private family businesses that make up about a third of the GDP. The UK doesn't have because we just gave up. And they're really a special part of German success. And it sounds like Engel's working in one of them. Anyway, keep going, Engel, keep going. For about a year, we've also had our B2C online shop. Our brand stands for slow fashion, natural minerals, and a relatively stable collection. I'm genuinely skeptical about price promotions and have so far managed to avoid discounting because I worry it would damage brand equity and train customers to wait for deals. Yeah, and it also will really piss off your B2B business. However, we do have some articles that have been sitting in stock for quite a long time and are clearly not moving. At the same time, the clothing retail market is under pressure, customers are price sensitive, and we are currently reworking our women's collection, which we see as one of our biggest growth opportunities. Our business today is 50% baby children, 35% women, and the rest men, natural outdoor textiles. Yeah, low on women. One of the great stats when I used to work in fashion, which is a very long time ago, as you can tell, was that a woman is worth approximately seven times a man. Who's to disagree with stats like that? And and so in fashion, you're very underweight there, really. So anyway, questions from Engel. Question Aynz, how would you strategically deal with slow moving or discontinued stock in a slow fashion brand without undermining price integrity and long-term brand equity? I mean, it was ecologically abysmal, and you wouldn't want to do this for very good reason, Engel, but normally we just burn it. Um, can you rework it into something else? Um or can you have an outlet shop? Outlet shop is all right because there's a re people are expecting in an outlet that this is, and in your case, it's true, we have some some end of end of season specials, right? So, you know, either A, start an outlet shop, or B, if that's really against brand, call your friends at TK Maxx in Germany and and and ask them to pop over. You know, they're they're certainly ready to pop in and help out with any excess stock, and it will disappear in a manner which is less harmful, and they're good marketers too. Uh, two, how can a genuinely sustainable slow fashion brand use sustainability as a source of trust and credibility without making the mistake assuming that green is the main reason people buy? I you may want it to be the main reason, Engel. It's it comes back to your research, you know. It may just be supporting the broader mission. I worked with a couple of startups many years ago, one of which was using sub-Saharan labor from the women in various different countries to make beautiful African scarves and jewelry. And um, one of the lessons there was if it's really beautiful and gorgeous, you're that you're nine-tenths of the way there. But then mentioning that it's made with a fair wage and by women that were, you know, really, really sustaining a family from this really got it over the line. But most customers wouldn't aborde it unless they really liked the scarf first. So I think it's just it, you know, you're communicating it without depending on it, might be the way. But it will depend on your market. Maybe green is the thing they're looking for. Jordan, how would you best navigate a situation where brand decisions are not entirely under your control and getting them under control has proven difficult? Is it best to adapt your poor strategy for consistency or go rogue? No, no, no, no, no. Um, two contexts. We operate a federated model nationally with different strategies per state. As a state, Randy's co-on by two teams. Yeah, no, no. Jordan, Jordan, listen to me. So you can't there's a difference between control and influence, and it's a crucial thing to learn in marketing. If you get chance, we run the mini MBA management, and a very, very successful American professor who teaches operate uh organizational behavior will turn up and teach a whole module pretty much on managing up and managing across. And I think for my money, it's one of the most important skills a marketer can learn. You'll never control all of this. Most of the shit we do we don't control. But having influence and having input is a different thing. And I think that's where you need to focus your efforts. Pauline, at the start of the program, you touched on category entry points and their role in driving salience, but they didn't feature prominently in strategic or tactical frameworks. Where do you see them fitting into a brand plan? Look, for me, I see them as an option for positioning. So you might want a position on one or two CEPs, you might want to position on benefits, you might want a position on features. For me, that's as deep as I go on them. Um, I see them as equally uh valuable, and the data can decide where they play. That's where I position. Pauline, pricing promos and distribution felt a bit undercovered relative to how often they're the levers pulled, and the ones most likely to jeopardize jeopardize the strategy. Which material would you recommend to go deeper on these tactical levers? I mean, we cover we cover it in the mini MBA marketing in the pricing module. So, you know, it's kind of a double up there. So come, I mean, again, I'm I don't want I don't want to sell you on a second product, but come to the mini MBA marketing. We cover it all there. Uh hi Mark. When planning brand communications for next year, I find it difficult to decide the required scale of ads and influences needed to effectively reach the targeted audience. Would be great to understand how you typically structure this kind of decision making. Yeah, it's a more specific point, you. Um, you're gonna have to chat with a decent media agency to get that level of depth knowledge, and that's the only place you'll get it from. You need you know it either in-house experts, but very often external media expertise. Nina, I love the course. In the final minutes of module 10, you say brand is not a company, it's the image customers and people have. What's your take on a B2B level? Is the image people have of is it the image that people have of your org? People buy from people, but B2B brand filters through people cultural clatter. Yeah, it's a great point. But back to my earlier B2B point about the data, brand has still this, and particularly salience has such a huge impact on it. Yeah, I I almost don't like the, you know, it's not B2B, you still buy from people. I'm like, yeah, you know what? You do, but you know, brand appears to be the most important aspect of all of this at the end of the day. It just gets rationalized out of the process. Mr. Kevin Webb, hi Mark. I just want to say thank you. The course has been amazing, informative, and incredibly fun. Thanks, Kev. The backstory in depth provided the Moon project provides rich learning experiences. Yeah, I worry I give you too much, you know, so I'm glad you enjoyed it. For those whose current role falls primarily in one area, any recommendations for continue practice in the full brand management discipline? Have any other case studies and older projects laying around collected dust? Hmm. So I've been working on a podcast, Kev. I'll just tell you. Don't tell anyone else. I've been working on a podcast now for three years. I really don't like marketing podcasts. I think they're really boring, and they're all the same. And I should know, because I'm I've been on most of them, being the same. So I I would never do anything like that. So I have a podcast starting in January. My wife thought I was having a nervous breakdown or midlife crisis. It's possible, but I don't think so anymore. So I've been playing it to people like ahead of Sony and stuff, and they're like, that's the biggest podcast in the world next year. So it might not be that good. He might have just been buttering me up. But it will speak to exactly your question. So hold on. 101 Greatest Case Studies in Marketing kicks off on January the 4th with uh probably with Viagra and then Omega and then Omega from there. So stick around, Kev. It's gonna be good, it's gonna be free, I'm not gonna have any advertising because I can't be arsed and I'm rich enough. And it's gonna be amazing. So, yes, give me six months and I'll see you weekly in your bathroom as you get ready for work. I will make your Mondays happy and a learning experience. So, yeah, January the 4th. You it'll be everywhere if I get if I do a good job. Charlotte, I have a few questions. Okay, let's go. What would a good five-year brand plan look like? Relate to one of the latest models. Do you have an example of a situation where the initial direction chosen? Oh, that was a question. I would never look at a five-year plan, Charlotte. It'll change too much. Just do a one-year plan. You're about to do it in the simulation. You gotta do five years, but you're gonna do it one year at a time. I would do that in the real world too. Do you have an example of a situation where the initial direction chosen by a CMO turned out not to be the right one? But staying the course ultimately led to success. Um, well, it then it then it was the right one, yeah. Um, I certainly have disagreed with marketers in the past and it's worked out all right. I thought, uh what's a good example without picking on anyone? I yes is the short answer. Because if it works out ultimately, it's still successful, right? And and the alternative might have been the wrong approach. And an example where sticking with the original direction led to failure. So what what should have been done instead? I mean, um when I worked on Ericsson, which is many years ago, we went we were all about being fast in the market and we and we were bad in the market as a result. And I think going slower would have been the right move. And I think everyone knew it by the end, but then it was too late to be a smart ass by then because we were in deep shit. Um that wasn't a good memory. Um, if you're building a brand from scratch today, would you invest first in DBAs and broad reach, or would you deliberately try and build cultural meaning? I do both from the start at the same time, but the distinctive brand assets would would have impact first. In other words, how should marketers balance mental availability and cultural meaning? Well, this was again from so when I had this debate with Byron, he came in very nervous. And I forget some. I always think of Byron as being much bigger deal than me and much tougher than me. And I forget what an asshole I can be, right? He was genuinely worried that I was gonna have a crack at him again, like I did 10 years earlier. And he made it very clear he wasn't here for that. And I said, All right, you know, I'm only doing what I thought you would do. We could we can be soft and touchy-feely if you want. And he was very much of that, you know, it was nice in a sort of you know, disappointing way. I was ready to sort of beat each other up again, but he didn't want to, and I'm like, okay, I I I am cool with that. And so one of the things we got out of him on the stage, which at some point will come out in the video, is I sort of I genuflected to the world of salience and mental availability and said it was the most important thing. But there has to be room for differentiation, relative differentiation, cultural meaning. And he said, Well, of course, of course there has to be room. I said, Well, can you say that again? Because the the world of two, you know, double D's, everyone says distinctiveness, not differentiation. I think that's really because you said that. And he went, No, no, no, I've never said that. There's room for differentiation, it's just very hard and very rare. And I said, Okay, well, then we agree it is hard and very rare, but it's possible. And he said, Of course it's possible, you fool, silly boy. So we got a, I mean, you know, so I think the point is, yeah, the mental availability is more important, but but relative differentiation is also possible. And should be part, you should be greedy and try and get both. Um, I know this goes, Sir Charlotte, beyond what is covered in this mini MBA, and these are tactics, but what would you say the top three digital tactics for each stage of the funnel? Uh look, I can't allocate them. It depends on how you use them. I all I can tell you is I think YouTube's in a remarkable position um to do both, but to do both differently. Um, I very much like what TikTok's doing. I've got a good partnership with TikTok, and I really enjoy working with them, and I think they're they're a force to be reckoned with. Um, but I've got to mention one more because you asked for three, and I don't want to be unfair. Look, I don't like what meta do, I think they're the most ideological, ideologically dodgy of them all, and that's saying something, but you cannot get past how they constantly demonstrate proper ROI. But I'm not gonna name the stages. I think that's pretty much all of them, right, isn't it? Laura Webb. Hi Mark, I have a question about the moon brand plan. In the video, you calculate Kager using a beginning revenue of 20.5 and an ending revenue of 28.6. However, in the current moon case study, exhibit 15 shows revenues of 26.8 and 37.1. Calculating Keger from these figures gives 11.45 over three years. Should we use the figures in the video or the figures? Well, it's too late anyway to help. But it it won't matter too much, Laura. I might have got my sums wrong this year, which happens somewhere. I think the difference is a five-year Kager and a three-year Kager. And if that's the case, take the five-year Kger. Unless you've got a good reason why the last three years are are closer. Given you're more accurate than me, Laura, whatever you do is going to be correct. I can say that as well. It's not going to matter too much. You know, make sure you got, I think the mistake I might have made, and I've made it before, is I don't count too many years. So I go that there's five years, one to two, to three, to four, to five, but there aren't. That's four periods, yeah? And I put in five kegapods. So it's a bit off. I wonder where do category and your points of Ehrenberg Bass fit in your brand plan? I would say as a um positioning option. Beatrice. Oh, this is it. Beatrice and then Yasmin, and we're out. Okay. How are we done on time? Oh, we've been alright nearly an hour. Some questions came up as I reviewed my notes before the brand plan. In terms of execution, how do we balance the need to codify commons materials with the growing unbranded platform first organic content on social? Yeah, this was part of my session with TikTok. You've still got the great quote from Tyndall was creators aren't going to codify your advertising because they're creators, not marketers. It's your job to get it in there. So the point is you still need it more than ever, and it's your job to enforce or ensure that it's there. And it's more important than ever in that kind of setting. Uh, what else you got for me there? We said that once a brand becomes established, we can start playing with codes. Is that the same, regardless of differences among markets? If a brand is less established in certain markets? I mean, that 40-year rule is pretty strong, and it should be 40 years in the market of choice. Rebranding is very rarely truly beneficial, but wouldn't a brand consum that consolidation entail a rebrand? No. The whole point of consolidation is you don't have to rebrand, you're going to kill one and keep the other, both of which were existing entities. And finally, you say, could you clarify the difference between brand extension and a branded house? Yeah, they're two different things, yeah. So um you've got your brand architecture, which is how you arrange your brands, and then you've got what you might do with any one of those brands in any one of those positions. You might do a brand extension, and that could be a sub-brand, it could be an endorsed brand. You know, so the position that you take for the new diversification is different from the type of diversification, if you see what I mean. They're two different languages. All right, and finally, Yasmind. So sorry I missed this deadline. If possible, just circulating back to the non-profit difference. Now we've come to the end of the course. It's a big question for the end of the program, Yasmin. I commit Yasmin Mund in the next six months to do something specifically on not for profit. Okay? Give me time and I'll do it. There aren't big differences, okay? All right, wonderful questions as ever to finish us off. Now, listen, get into the simulation later today. Take your time, follow my instructions, and the most important thing, enjoy this. This is one of the great learning experiences of your life. Promise, it's that good. So take your time, and when you finish with your results, post something on LinkedIn. I'll see you in the middle of July from the middle of my vacation with course conclusions. Good luck out there. Those of you about to destroy brand equity in the simulation, they salute you.