The RedRum Podcast
Join Captain and Wilson as they enjoy an adult beverage or two and review the good, the bad, and the ugly of horror films!
The RedRum Podcast
Nocturne
Send us your movie recommendations!
The film discussion begins around 10:00.
What happens when Halloween decor meets sibling drama, and a podcast turns into a portal for unresolved star quarrels? We kick things off with a tantalizing look into the mysterious tension between "Charmed" stars Alyssa Milano and the late Shannon Doherty, as we recount her final appearance on the "Charmed" podcast. Her presence was a breath of fresh air, shifting the usual grievance-laden tone into something more heartfelt. Meanwhile, the surprising evolution of Spirit Halloween stores is sure to excite anyone looking to haunt their homes with some seriously cool decor.
Spooky finds and thrilling films take center stage as we chat about our own Halloween plans and Spirit Halloween’s unexpected transformation into a decor destination. We share our enthusiasm for a Beetlejuice-inspired sling bag and some quirky T-shirt designs that caught our eye. As the conversation turns cinematic, we dive into the eerie world of "Nocturne," a 2020 psychological thriller that’s part of the "Welcome to Blumhouse" series. The film’s artistic rivalries and supernatural elements drew comparisons to "Black Swan" and "The Perfection," sparking a lively discussion about its standout moments and unsettling atmosphere.
Sibling rivalry takes a dramatic twist in our exploration of Juliet’s journey at a music academy, where ambition and personal sacrifice play out in haunting fashion. As the competing sisters navigate their tumultuous relationship, the film’s supernatural undertones keep us guessing. We wrap up with a thoughtful chat about individuality, especially for twins, and why pursuing unique paths can be so rewarding. Whether it’s indulging in a new hobby or simply forging your own path, there’s room for everyone to shine in their own spotlight. Join us for this captivating blend of drama, suspense, and heartfelt insights!
um, you have something in here as a little discussion so I listen.
Wilson:I'll occasionally listen to the charmed podcast which is some of the stars like recapping episodes, as like that's pretty popular right now, um, but there's like a ton of drama with the podcast and some of it might actually be interesting to people that don't watch it. But, um, I'll do like the shorter version. Uh, so the people that do the podcast are like a couple of the main characters, but only one of the original, like three, like main witches in the show okay if you're familiar, yeah I'm like vaguely familiar okay, so the three of them the original ones do not get along like two of them are best friends.
Wilson:Then they kind of like hate the other one because she got the one kicked off the show halfway through. Wait, what do you? Mean like got her kicked off, like like um, there's a whole backstory, but basically shannon doherty was on 90210 and she got fired and then the same showrunner creator brought her on for Charmed. But Alyssa Milano I don't know if she was jealous of Shannon Doherty or what, but behind the scenes it ended up being either she goes or I go, and they got rid of Shannon Doherty. Wait, so is.
Wilson:Alyssa Milano, like considered like a bitch in hollywood um no, she actually like overall people like her, I think there's just there's like a lot of bad blood on both sides, um so like, obviously they didn't get along. So she's not on the podcast. Um, but anyway, I was listening to the podcast and it gets kind of like it kind of sucks because they just complain about how terrible stuff was or like bitch on Alyssa Milano. So then the next season they brought Shannon Doherty on the podcast. She turned it around. It was fantastic. She was very classy when talking about Alyssa Milano.
Wilson:But anyway, shannon Doherty passed away this summer oh yeah, I did hear about that and the show's kind of like apparently back to like being not so good, but they yeah. It's just there's a lot of drama between the main stars and it's like it's sad, but it's so intriguing has alissa milano ever like made a statement about it? Um, she will. She kind of dances around it.
Captain:She doesn't address it directly, which in a way I respect, like I think I really would just want to hear her say like I've grown, I've changed, but I think she in a way has like I don't't know.
Wilson:So it sounded like her and Shannon were probably just like okay, by this point, like they.
Captain:it's been 20 years, 25 years, and they're like a 23 year old grudge is so much energy Like I would not have. I would not have the ability.
Wilson:But the third star really hangs on to it and she'll like say kind of like shitty things and it's just like. I mean I get it, but it doesn't read well.
Captain:Yeah, that's not really what people want to hear when they listen to a podcast.
Wilson:No, no, so that's my podcast drama, but yes, I did have a topic. It's a short one, but have you been to Spirit Halloween in, like I don't know, the last couple years? I don't think so Okay, you need to go, because what I remember Spirit Halloween as is like, mostly picked through costumes, they're all like paper-thin toilety paper material.
Captain:And they're like $70.
Wilson:Yes, we went into one last weekend. They have it's like a department store, like one the costumes most of them are like fairly good quality, but they have like halloween decor that you would want to put in your house around halloween like like it's cute or it's spooky.
Captain:Yeah, really it's like spooky.
Wilson:Really Like soap dispensers, like little fake plants, just like all sorts of stuff.
Captain:Huh, I wonder if they got like a different president, or like board or something.
Wilson:I don't know, but like I got a sling bag for Halloween to carry stuff in, but it's designed like um that book?
Captain:for are you trick or treating what's happening?
Wilson:No, but like we are going to Halloween parties, so it's like I want to have a bag, Cause I don't really have pockets. Um, the what's that book from Beetlejuice? Um, uh, what's that called? Anyway, it's it's modeled after that, like, it looks like the book, but it's like a sling. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Anyway, yeah, so it's like the quality is much better than I remember, and I heard recently or this week that they're coming out with a spirit Christmas.
Captain:What Like?
Wilson:they're branching into.
Captain:Like, really Like for real.
Wilson:I'm pretty sure Unless it was a joke Instagram account, but I think it might actually be happening.
Captain:Yeah, I feel like they had to have gotten like a new director or something like a new president. I mean, who would change something that's been the same way for like 20 years, unless it was like a new creative person came in right? I mean, I don't know.
Wilson:Yeah, I don't know and I just look it up. Spirit christmas is legit. I have a website for it there are spirit halloweens near me.
Captain:I just haven't been in any like I you need to go, like the last couple of years, like I've done, like casual halloweens, like, um, yeah, I mean yeah, even if they were like get-togethers on halloween, they were like cash. I don't know like, are you getting in like full costume?
Wilson:um, uh well, so I only went because I wanted a. Oh, I should have worn it, but they actually have like fun shirts, like this one says. It's called uh, I think, witch crafts, and it's a bunch of little kids like crafting, but it's like they're summoning Satan or something.
Captain:Oh, that's so fun yeah.
Wilson:And then one of our friends has a shirt that says easy bake coven. And it's just like it's like 1950s style drawing, but like it's an easy bake oven.
Captain:It's a summoning circle or something like that wow, that's fun. Yeah, so go that's like an etsy shop like.
Wilson:That's like yeah, that's like fun. Like when I first saw that I was like that doesn't.
Captain:I was shocked to hear that came from spirit halloween huh, okay, maybe I will have to check it out, actually, actually.
Wilson:Yeah.
Captain:Yeah, I feel like, yeah, that's never a store that I'd go in for cutesy stuff. That's like a Michael's or a Bath Body Works holiday thing.
Wilson:Yeah, I did see.
Captain:Bath Body Works. They did a collaboration with Stranger Things. I don't know if you ever walk into that store.
Wilson:I do sometimes, but I hadn't heard about that.
Captain:Yeah, but I went into the store like recently and I, okay, I like like what they're doing with their stranger things, stuff, but I don't like any of the scents. Like, I don't like, I don't like the scent upside down. I don't like the one that's like just like a demogorgon, which I feel like they wouldn't smell good even in real life. Well, yeah, like I don't like the one that's just like a Demogorgon, which I feel like they wouldn't smell good even in real life.
Wilson:Well, yeah, I don't watch Stranger Things and think like I want to smell that.
Captain:I know, but I just wish it smelled good. I like what they're doing with the decor, but I don't know. I'm not a fan, unfortunately.
Wilson:You know, their Marshmallow Firesideide candle is my favorite.
Captain:You love that one. I really like the. What is this? This is berry Berry waffle cone. I think is my favorite. I love this one.
Wilson:Okay, actually, I would probably like that. I like anything that involves a baked good or fall, but if it's anything fresh or berry, like just berry, or anything like that.
Captain:I don't like it no, this is like a baked good berry, it's. It's really. I love this one like I could. I could, yeah, I had this in lotion once and I haven't seen it recently and I wish I could get more because I I mean, I have like a lotion addiction, like I buy it by the pound by like five pound, orders of it anyway. Um yeah.
Wilson:I mean, everyone should be moisturizing, honestly, just it's important.
Captain:Nobody's sponsoring us, but I mean everyone should be moisturizing.
Wilson:Honestly, it's importante, Nobody's sponsoring us.
Captain:It's a plug. Yeah, I just like it. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, do you have any? Oh, I have, look at this. I'm back to my mangoes.
Wilson:Your Florida project.
Captain:Yeah, mango dragon fruit. Back at it, dragon fruit.
Wilson:I have a key lime lacroix, which is my current favorite lacroix, lacroix favor um, yeah, but you have like fantastic some like lean in there I have some lean you have it like like spiked up that lacroix huh uh, yeah, sure, yep, yep um, okay, do you want to like?
Captain:are we good, or?
Wilson:yeah, like bring us in come on, set us down come on.
Captain:Okay, welcome to the 161st podcast. No episode of the Red Room Podcast, where we review horror movies while enjoying an adult beverage or two, and I'm Captain.
Wilson:And I'm Wilson.
Captain:And this week we're reviewing the 2020 psychological thriller Nocturne. This is one of those Blumhouse welcome to blumhouse features, so that like anthology thing that they I think they put out like eight movies and it was like four one week and like four the next, or like can you?
Wilson:yeah, can you refresh me on this anthology thing, because I remember we talked about it a while ago and I don't really remember yeah, like what, what else did we see? And what, what was the? Yeah, just tell me.
Captain:So we saw we did black box, which this nocturne and black box were like fuck what black box yes, not that long ago, but like they basically, I think, did a collaboration with amazon where they were like purposely gonna put out like um two installments of a couple of films that came out together. Was it four films all together, or six, one, two, three, four?
Captain:I'm asking you I think it was eight. That's what I thought. Yeah, four films came out and then two and then two, so it collectively it was eight all together and they were like coming out during the month of october in 2020. So like nocturne and black box were considered the best ones. Um, the other ones are honestly, mostly considered like pretty shit. What is your face?
Wilson:I thought bingo hell was supposed to be fun, but just like extra campy. But maybe not I don't know.
Captain:That's what I saw on the internet was like basically those two. So we saw black box. I don't remember what episode that was. Is there like showering happening?
Wilson:um, it was the, I just had to look it up. It's like when they, uh, the mother scientist's son dies, so she like puts his brain in another guy's body.
Captain:But we don't know that out until like happens in the movie okay I, I, I hear like water on your side, is that?
Wilson:not. You hear water on my side is that not happening? What do you mean? You hear water I don't know.
Captain:Well, it went away. Um, anyway, yeah, that's welcome to blood house. That was like their whole thing. I don't think I'm ever gonna watch any of the other movies, but these ones are fine. Um, yeah, so that was their. That was yeah, now it's been like four years, but, um, yeah, they do. We. We have the squelch for black box. I'm gonna say that wasn't like super long ago, but I don't know.
Wilson:I would do like 139.
Captain:Wait, I was going to say I'll say 142.
Wilson:Damn You're trying to. No, I haven't looked it up yet. I just like you're so close to mine.
Captain:Well, I think that is right around there.
Wilson:You are closer.
Captain:It was 148 oh wow I mean, it was fairly recent it doesn't feel like it was super recent no, it does not um, this movie specifically, though, was directed by zoo quirk. I don't know what that really. I don't know how that fits with the Blumhouse like, because I think the Blumhouse people are always involved, but anyway, this is her directorial debut, and she's known for a unique approach to blending classical music and horror, which again tracks really well with this movie oddly specific, but okay.
Captain:I did look it up. She's done like three other things, but um, they haven't. Um, they were all like 2015, 2016 and like they weren't really like clickable things, like nothing. Nothing was more recent than nocturne um, okay um, she, let's see.
Captain:she has a distinct, yeah style oflike sequences, intense character-driven storytelling and garnered attention as a promising debut. I don't know, that's AI, so to get into the cast here we have Sydney Sweeney as our main character. She plays Juliet and she's mostly known for her role in Euphoria. I can't remember her name in Euphoriaie, or is that the other one?
Captain:uh, cassie, cassie sounds right yeah, she's like I, I don't remember the other girl that's mostly what I know her from is euphoria. But she's also in white lotus, um, and then, yeah, she's like oh and uh friggin, since it's a horror podcast.
Wilson:Uh, was that a horror movie she was in um oh, recently that uh, the nun one. Um, damn it, what is that?
Captain:it was a really good movie yeah, I actually do kind of immaculate, immaculate, immaculate yes oh yeah, I did not put that in here. Yes, but she doesn't do like a ton of psychological or like horror roles, and so they were like I don't know. I said that she showcased. Well, we have Madison Eastman is how you say that, I guess and she plays Vivian, which is the, which is Juliet's twin sister. Vivian is sorry, no. Madison is known for her performance in Jumanji those new ones and she's also in the TV show I Know what you Did Last Summer, from 2021. I don't know what that is.
Wilson:No, I haven't seen it summer from 2021.
Captain:I don't know what that is, but no, um, I do know I do love those. Um new jumanji movies with jack black.
Wilson:Um I tried one. I think I got distracted, but they're fun. I mean, usually if you like something, I very probably like it.
Captain:So I should probably just I mean I wouldn't say that they're like the most greatest movies of all time, but Jack Black makes those movies very fun. I mean she's, Her role is whatever. Jack Black makes those movies really fun.
Wilson:Yeah, it's just like when the Rock is in something. I'm like I feel like I know what type of movie this is going to be. Okay, you don't watch trailers, but there's a holiday movie coming out this year with Chris Evans. It holiday movie coming out this year with, uh, chris evans, and actually looked really interesting it was like an interesting concept and then captain, america. Um, yeah, uh, yeah, santa claus gets like kidnapped or something um oh, the one with um jk simmons maybe, but like the rock shows up in the movie and I was like, oh, it looks so good.
Captain:Damn you fucking hate that man.
Wilson:I don't hate him, I just like he's always in the same type of movie, so it's just like.
Captain:I don't think he's known for being like a great actor, but I think they, just like you know, I think he's pigeonholed into a specific type of character and they just like having that character in movies which is fine, yeah, I think it. Yeah, Red one, that movie. I think we're talking about the same.
Wilson:Yes, yes, I think that's it yeah.
Captain:Yeah, jk Simmons is Santa Claus.
Wilson:Oh, okay.
Captain:Um, anyway, I don't even know where, oh, um, anyway, I don't even know where. Oh, jumanji, um, and then yeah, okay, so those are the twins, juliet and vivian. And then um, okay, ai did not put this in here, but their mom is played by julie benz, and that's rita from dexter yeah and ai did not pick that up.
Wilson:I was like wow I know I was having a bad day or maybe I don't have the plus version so it just like gives me half ass results.
Captain:Yeah, but we love her Dexter. She's also Darla in Buffy the Vamp Pirate Slayer, and she's also in Roswell, which I started watching. I haven't watched it in a while, but I don't know. It's not a bad show, it doesn't.
Wilson:It doesn't have we talked about it? I haven't tried it, since you mentioned it.
Captain:I'm actually like not mad about it. So, yeah, I got back into reading. So I kind of like put the show down, but I've been like popping through books Like I read a whole trilogy since the last podcast.
Captain:Damn and my favorite author just released a new book, like a few days ago, so I'm down, um, okay, but anyway, yes, um. And then let's see uh miles mckinna plays alex in this movie, which he doesn't have like a lot of background, but he is um j James in that new Goosebumps show with the guy from Jeepers Creepers. What's the guy from Jeepers Creepers?
Wilson:Oh, that's not a movie. No, it's like a oh Justin Long.
Captain:Yeah, it's like an eight-part series. It's actually pretty good. I actually really like it, okay, yeah, so yeah, he's in this movie. I haven't seen him in anything else besides goosebump until now and I was like, oh good for him. Um, the max character has recognition from his role in the society. I don't know what that is. And then, lastly, dr cask in this movie is played by evan shaw and he has notable tv appearances, including Insecure and Silicon Valley, which I watched both of those briefly, and I don't recognize him from those yeah, I don't.
Wilson:I haven't seen Insecure, but it's been years since I saw Silicon Valley yeah, it's been a long time.
Captain:Insecure was okay. I okay, I just don't know, it wasn't like quite my vibe. I don't think um all right. So the movie is basically about. Um revolves around juliet, who is a timid pianist at a music academy, but she lives in the shadow of her twin sister, who's also a pianist at the same music academy. And I'm like girls, you're twins, but you don't have to be like bad on top of each other, like that's kind of crazy.
Wilson:I do want to preface that I the first 30 minutes I was I dozed off so many times, for the first 30 minutes why so I had to like piece together the rest of the movie as I was watching it why?
Captain:why are you?
Wilson:why I think it was just I think I was just tired. I had like just eaten dinner.
Captain:I am like after a day of working I do remember saying that that while I was watching this movie I was like damn, this is kind of like a slow start, like pick the fuck up and then and then and then, and then it did so yeah um, but um the yeah, so those are kind of our main characters.
Captain:The movie starts off with moira, something who, um, we see her playing this piano and or not piano, we see her playing this violin. Um, and then she hears like a clock chime and that like incites her to jump off of the balcony and kill herself. Um, so she. We find out that she was the and I don't know shit about music. So she was the concerto, which is like a showcase thing. That is good. But because she died, they like redo. It's a competition. So like the staff decide to redo this competition. So like people submit their music and like they audition and then whoever like wins gets to take the spot. Um, so both sisters and this is kind of like shitty for vivian, but um, both sisters basically give the same piece. So, um the some backstory to this is like we we find in the beginning of the movie that Vivian has gotten into Juilliard and I guess Sidney Sweeney's character did it like apply.
Wilson:She only applied, oh, that's right, and she didn't pick any other schools of backup.
Captain:Yeah, so she didn't get in but her twin sister did, and her twin sister is kind of like the opposite of her, like she's very timid, but her twin sister is like pretty social, has friends, has a boyfriend, like does well in this music academy, got into this good school. Even her parents are like supportive of Juliet but they still like make like they sent her that gift when they went back to school and it was like our favorite workhorse was on the card and I was like ugh, workhorse is not a compliment. Like they still like shots fire her. So yeah, it's just kind of weird.
Captain:So, yeah, yeah, they find out that they're rerunning this competition, um, and you get like little hints that um, julia is jealous of her sister but at the same time, they do seem like they kind of love each other still, regardless. Like her sister tells her, like you know, you gotta, um like grow some balls and like put more, you know, be more brave in your audition for this in this competition. Um, your, your mentor teacher is like holding you back and you should have dropped him a while ago. Like she's like trying to like boost her self-esteem. Um, and during that conversation, or like right after that conversation ends, a notebook falls on the ground as they were cleaning out the dead Moira's cubby and uh, juliet picks it up and it has, like all these creepy symbols on it, which are symbols that we see briefly, like scrolled into the wall in the first scene. Um, and the notebook basically like helps her, kind of like, I don't know be braver okay so she like reads it.
Captain:She like reads this little like incantation in the front of the book. Uh, she like, uh decides not to play boats art which I guess is what she was always doing with her teacher and decides to do this like I couldn't fucking tell you what that's called, the thing that they do. They like give you the name of it. C'est Sans or something.
Wilson:I have no idea.
Captain:Like this movie could be entirely made up and I like all the music terms, we wouldn't know anybody, we wouldn't know, yeah, like I don't know. I, yeah, like I don't know um, I like can't even do, like the little piano, like the that little thing that everybody does in college, like that little um, I don't know that little tune that they do, I can't remember what it's called.
Wilson:sticks, sticks, something, shuffle sticks I, I lost asking the wrong person. Okay, yeah, anyway, um yeah.
Captain:So she, um, basically after she looks at the notebook one time and like she, you know, has some balls, she decides to do the same exact piece as her sister for the auditions and she doesn't even tell her sister. I think she attempts to try to but her sister kind of like shushes her because she just wants to, it's like during the auditions. So her sister just wants to listen to those. Um, she gives the audition and she kind of like blacks out during it. Um, and this is kind of like I remember thinking like this is the part where I was like this movie needs to pick up, and then like, immediately after that it does.
Wilson:Okay, because I think that was the part that I missed. And then it's this next scene where I was like fully awake.
Captain:Oh really.
Wilson:Where I was like piecing together what just happened.
Captain:Yeah, she, yeah. So she like blacks out. And then it's like, um, she's walking down this creepy hallway with paintings, um, and she, like I don't know, there's like some creepy I can't remember there was like creepy violin music or something. She sees that bright light, um, which moira was seeing um, and when she comes to they said that she fainted um, but everyone told her that she was like did it? Like it was incredible. And then, after finishing the audition, her sister's obviously very mad at her. You know, v's like you know you stole my piece and she. This is where, like little snippy comments start to come out of her sister's mouth, which you hear them from a lot of other people, but this is the first time you hear it from her where she says um, I know you were always jealous, but now everybody knows, um, you were, uh, really embarrassing yourself out there, um, so she's like pretty mad um, yeah, but kind of shitty to each other I mean, yeah, I mean, but this is my thing.
Captain:Why would you be born a twin with somebody and then decide to follow the exact same career tract at the exact same place at the exact same time?
Wilson:like that's weird it is asking for a lot of trouble. Like the parents should not have let that happen, pick two different instruments or something I don't know.
Captain:Yeah.
Wilson:You don't have to both do pianos.
Captain:I know I should have said that during that creepy dream sequence, when she blacks out, I should say she sees herself basically being awarded flowers, flowers, um, as if she like landed this showcase. So, like she sees, she sees it from a third person's perspective, which really like creeps her out. Um, but yes, she, I'm trying to. So I was confused about this part. She like is she second chair or something in the concerto? Like I was really confused because I thought she won, but then it sounds like she didn't win initially.
Wilson:Bruh, I don't know.
Captain:Is there like second chair? I like couldn't figure that out.
Wilson:I feel like I've heard that word before in relation to these types of performances.
Captain:But Vivian, this is, this is like the thing, though. It's like I think she was like second or I don't know. It's like. Maybe it's like I think it's like a bunch of people audition, I don't fucking know. But her sister, Vivian, didn't even make it into the showcase, which was like crushing for her and then like the notebook basically kind of like really takes over. You know, um, uh, you see, sydney sweeney is really good at these, like micro smirks and you start to see those come out. She is phenomenal at that and like always being on the verge of tears phenomenal yes, her like constant baby voice and verge of tears is like her signature.
Captain:It is crazy, um, yeah, because she's like that pretty much the whole movie, um, so she, you know this, like ballsiness from the notebook is coming out. She basically gets in this huge fight with her mentor saying like I've outgrown you. Um, you know, I, I want to be great, and he's like. He says like not everybody has to be a soloist, like without people like you, we wouldn't have an orchestra. I was like, oh, oh, why would you say that? I mean, maybe it's how you feel, that I don't, I don't know, maybe the music world is like kind of ruthless, like it kind of seems like it is that way, but, um, yeah, but she basically says like, um, in response she's like it kills you that I have ambition and you ended up, um, being like a deformed drunk that pretends he chose teaching instead of got forced into it, and so he slaps her fighting words over.
Captain:Yeah, so he slaps her Some fighting words over here, yeah, so he slaps her the teacher and therefore he's suspended, and in that process then she gets switched to the mentor, dr Kask.
Wilson:Was she goading him when she did that, Like she wanted to be slapped so that she could get a different?
Captain:I don't think that was initially what she wanted, but I mean it just works out in her favor really really well Initially what she wanted, but I mean it just works out in her favor really really well, because Dr Cask is like the person that like helps people become like great musicians.
Wilson:Sure.
Captain:Sure there is like this yeah, so yeah, we're getting like more images, I think, around this time of her like um, I don't know, just like creepy things and like nightmare sequences, um, um and around this time. You see her sister also is pranking. She like does that bloody tampon prank thing? Just to get back at her where I can't imagine that was like human blood in those.
Wilson:In any case, that's nasty.
Captain:And she was like LOL, now we're even Woomies. They say woomies in this movie Also kind of gross, yeah, but yeah, I don't thinkiet's not down for that. Um, so she does her first like practice with her new mentor, dr cask, and he says he like challenges her. He's like why did you do the same piece as your sister? And she kind of like takes a moment and she says just flat out like I wanted to beat her.
Captain:Um, and I like this line that he says like vivian plays like the devil's at the door but moira beat her in the initial competition because moira plays like the devil's in the room. I was like, oh, poetry, um, and that kind of like hits juliet and she wanted like she realizes, like she wants to be like that. And the teacher also also says if you were really serious about being the greatest, nothing would get in your way, not even your sister. So kind of weird. And then we get the scene of that night, the senior party, which I don't know about you, but I thought that was going to be a setup so hard.
Wilson:Did you feel that way when she gets a text, it did kind of, it did kind of get? Give those vibes like this is where you would have a setup.
Captain:Yeah, her sister's boyfriend text her says please come to this party. And I was like that's a weird fucking text to get from your sister's boyfriend, um, but it's like not necessarily a setup. I mean he basically invites her and they like do drugs. Um, she is seeing more weird stuff that her sister has, like these weird phone conversations or declines phone calls, um, where she basically is like you know, leave me alone, like I don't want to talk to you anymore um yeah.
Captain:So we're gonna kind of getting those scenes um and then, uh, because of the drugs that are happening well, I don't know a kind of a mixture of things. But juliet and max, who's her sister's boyfriend, end up getting like having like a deep discussion and they like basically say like wow, it'd be really great if we were kissing, which is like a crazy thing to say, oh yeah because she was like the scenes, like I've never been kissed before and I would love to.
Captain:And of course vivian hears this and says wow, which makes uh, her and her sister get in this big fight. Basically, juliet runs and Vivian runs after her and there's like this bright light that comes that makes Juliet stop and like crouch down on her knees, but Vivian doesn't, and we see her yeet herself off a cliff Like she's running, and I don't think she realizes there's a cliff there and she like falls, like how I don't get it? Yeah, like aren't they on this campus? For like it's a, like it's a, it's a dormitory, like how do they not know the way the landscaping?
Wilson:of this campus? Yeah, like, and that would have been blocked off.
Captain:Yeah like, for sure something would be there yeah, like because they didn't, they were walking distance, like it's not like they were like really far away yeah so I don't know what was going on, um, but then her boy, the, the boyfriend, is running after both the sisters and she stops him from going over the cliff. So I don't think that was purposeful.
Captain:But I don't think either to vivian, she's like wow, you're gonna save my boyfriend, but not save me. But, um, you know, she just I don't think she even realized that he was going off a cliff. And then the second person that comes through she's obviously going to be like dude, watch out, there's a cliff right um, but he calls 9-1-1 and he says the senior party could like get them in a big trouble.
Captain:So he tells her can you go back to the party and get everybody back to their dorms so that they don't get in trouble?
Captain:so, um, you know, and vivian's fine, but she has a broken arm and she can't perform in the thing anymore well, when they so, they have this meeting with the principal and the principal basically says I mean, she finds out that not only is her arm broken, but they said it'll take months to heal and because of that, um, she can't you know, she can't play at all. So so I don't know, does that mean that she, she was? Oh no, sorry, I guess vivian landed the showcase initially and then now she's out, so juliet's in. I'm confused I think.
Wilson:I think so because I think juliet's like the third runner up oh, runner up moira, vivian and juliet.
Captain:That's my understanding okay, that makes sense. Okay, um, um, beyond that, she's suspended because she was out drinking at this cliff. Like it's double-edged Um. But I love that Dr Cask is like he's kind of like proud of Juliet, for like he assumes that she like helped. You know, push her sister out so, because he says something to her like you know, push her sister out so, cause he says something to her like you know, um, I don't know something about. Like you know, we need to practice or we missed a day of practice and I'm like, by the way, clean the dirt off your shoes. This isn't like she, he knows that she was outside with them, yeah.
Captain:It's like yeah, it's like, damn bro, every teacher in this school is slimy. You have the one mentor that slapped you and now you have this guy. And then they get Jules and Vivian, get an even more of a conversation. Jules basically tells her I know that you're cheating, I know that you're cheating on Max, because I've heard those awkward, those weird phone calls that you've been having. And Vivian says, um, something's happening with you and um, usually I'm there to help pick up the pieces when, like you, whatever you're doing like falls apart and shatters. But I won't be here this time, so they're just kind of talking to uh, uh, talk, like talk. What is that shit talking on each other. But vivian does say that her doctor told her she might never play the same again and I was like oof, like yeah what that would be crushing that would be crushing um.
Captain:Anyway, juliet, juliet. We get more of these like scenes of her like looking through this notebook and there's like creepy um imagery of things that are happening in her real life, but they're like demon faces um, and she thinks that she's like seeing the future. And there's like steps in the book. I didn't write down all the steps, but it's like um, I don't even remember what a lot of them are I don't, I remember seeing them.
Captain:I don't remember, but the last one is sacrifice, like, but yeah, it's like, um, I don't know something about, like self, I don't, I couldn't, I literally don't even remember. But there's a bunch of them. And the last one is sacrifice and, um, she feels like she's gonna end up the same way Moira did, um, where, like Moira lost everything her family, her security, everything before she killed herself. So she feels like she's going to end up the same way as Moira with that book. And she like finds comfort in Max after Max and Vivian break up because Max finds out that he he was being cheated on, which I think Juliet tells him, I'm guessing yes, and then also.
Captain:Then they hook up immediately, like immediately, which I is so nasty.
Wilson:So now, yeah, and then he leaves. Suddenly he like they have sex and he realizes immediately he's like I shouldn't have done this, it was a mistake. And he doesn't talk to her again.
Captain:Yeah, there's, I don't know, like your siblings ex, especially like your twin sister's ex, like I don't know, that's really fucking weird. That's really fucking weird. Yeah, um, yeah, and then what?
Captain:they have that like dinner conversation with cask there, like their parents come um and cask gives us this like background about whatever the devil's whatever the devil's uh trill is, which is like something about what they're playing I don't know something about like how classical music um is really important in the shay's world too, because musicians sacrifice everything to play classical music like at their best.
Wilson:It's like a big um, I don't know like well, wasn't that because the mom was like I don't see how they're gonna find jobs yeah, but his, his speech was like a little pompousy, I don't know. It was giving a like it was a lot yeah uh and they are celebrating because they I don't know if you said or I didn't hear, if you said it or not, but like juliette was then given the prime spot in the concert thing because vivian's out yeah, but it's also their birthday.
Wilson:They had birthday cake and candles remember oh right, I don't know why I don't know, but um, yeah, so and then we?
Captain:so we find out that um cask was the person that uh, vivian was cheating on max with the professor so slimy both of these professors we've met aren't slimy um, and he offers to drive juliet back to the dorms that night, which the implication is that he's coming on to her as well. Um, but when juliet kisses him, um, he like rejects her. Um, and she tells him like I I know that you've been having a affair with my sister, so like what's the problem? And I think she realizes that like he really, he like loves Vivian, which is like gross, because he says something like I never did anything against her consent. I was like that's not really what we were worried about.
Wilson:Yeah.
Captain:That's not really what we were worried about. Yeah, that's not really what we were worried about. So she burns some prestigious trophy that he has when they were fighting about it and she basically realizes that when he's trying to salvage it from the fire he looks really kind of stupid. In that moment she realizes that the previous events have coincided with more drawings in that notebook that she has um so the last page of her there's, I don't know.
Captain:Whatever she realizes, the last page is like you're gonna die by demanding sacrifice for the, the, the career, um, it says that she burns the notebook in. Oh, she does burn the notebook in that sink and then like, passes out oh yeah, I totally forgot about that.
Captain:Um, so we finally get to the showcase, the concerto, and um, the Vivian comes to her backstage room and has a full blowout like sabotage speech. She's like um you know, when did your hatred for me start? Um, was it back in second grade, when I told you that I'd always be there for you when you froze on stage for your first solo, where I, like, took your hands and basically like helped you play, because otherwise you would have just ran off stage and been like I don't know, like a loser, or um, you know like she was like. You know what? Like was that when it started? Um, because, like you know, you're trying to steal my life. You stole my boyfriend. Um, what happened? Um, you, stole, my solo um.
Captain:You stole, like my life and my future. Um, was it just because I was better than you like? Um? I don't know. It's like it's bad the way that vivian delivers those lines like she also says.
Wilson:Like you know, there are no Juilliard uh, scouts in the audience they're not, they're not, they're not going to come here, which?
Captain:is like mind blown to Juliet, because Juliet still wants to try to get into Juilliard yes, and that's what she was hoping for tonight. Yeah yeah, I think um, yes, vivian says you could play the greatest performance known to man tonight and it wouldn't change a thing. There are no scouts here, um, and you will be mediocre forever. I was like brah, oh. And vivian says at least my loser status is um, because like I have an excuse, like my arm's broken, but you have no reason, like you're just bad and I was like damn.
Wilson:You know they're like playing Vivian as like a terrible person, but so far everything that's happened like either. Like Vivian is not the person in the wrong here, and I feel like in her shoes I would be equally upset.
Captain:Yeah, but she should not be telling her sister that her sister's like going to be.
Wilson:Okay, it did get a little harsh, a little harsh, but she did take both of her boyfriends, basically, or at least tried to. Don't put that teacher in there.
Captain:Do not put that teacher in there. That is. No, no. How long could she have been with Dr Cask? I mean, aren't they in high school, juilliard's college?
Wilson:So, like bro, it was probably like a week.
Captain:I'm just saying anything more than I mean. I'm assuming that was their 18th birthday party, so like gross.
Wilson:Yeah, yeah.
Captain:Yeah. So I do like the line, though when she says like, was it just because I was better than you? And juliet cuts her off and says were like. She just says the word were as in like you were better than me and I was like, damn, she's trying, but but she doesn't win. But she doesn't win. Vivian's sabotage speech was awful and then she goes okay, good luck, which you know. She kind of has a panic attack on stage and runs off the stage. I think a lot of that was incentivized or whatever, I don't know Initiated because of her sister's speech.
Wilson:I believe that.
Captain:And she runs off to the. She like cries in a closet and then she sees a light and she runs off to the roof following the light and she basically like she's having visions of her finishing the concert, I think. But she actually like like jumps off the roof, um so like we're getting it split back and forth, where she's like receiving a standing ovation and the approval of her sister, but afterwards it's revealed that she actually jumped to her death and her bloody body is seen, um stabbed like on a statue. She's like not dead, like she's smiling still. And the scene that I really didn't understand is like it's dawn, like, and people it's not dawn, it's like morning time and people are like walking around and they don't even see her, like they're not even noticing that she's on this statue and that was like really confusing for me.
Captain:That's how the movie ends, so like it's left, I think, intentionally kind of ambiguous, because it's like did she play the concert and these are like visions she's seeing, or did she fall to her death and the concert are visions?
Wilson:I, so I think she fell to her death. I think this movie is a lot more in depth than I was ready for I mean blumhouse does like to do stuff like that I guess, but I feel like a lot of time blumhouse does not pan out, at least lately yeah, I just say I don't know like a lot of their movies have been busts yeah, I could see that.
Captain:Um, I didn't look at at the Reddit of people kind of arguing about, like, what really happened at the end. So some people do think that she really did jump. But actually I really liked this comment that someone made, where it's like she didn't literally die. It's her soul that died on the statue, not her. The whole idea of the movie is that she sells her soul to become a star. Her. The whole idea of the movie is that she sells her soul to become a star. So she makes the ultimate sacrifice at the end by choosing to be great and giving her soul away. And I was like, oh, I kind of like that because that that that's a good reason as to why people weren't noticing her on the statue, because it's not really a physical human body that does make sense and I do like that more.
Wilson:I would not have gotten that I would not have gotten that.
Captain:I don't think. But, um, I don't know, I was like sometimes, sometimes I have to look up movies and even if it's just like five minutes, which it basically was um, I'm not like mad about it. But I don't think blumhouse has actually said like. I don't think the director has said like I think they left it ambiguous on purpose, but, um, I don't know. I like that because otherwise I'm like why the fuck are people not noticing her?
Wilson:um, I mean, I just I kind of just figured they they didn't notice her because they're like they just hadn't seen her yet.
Captain:That's it.
Wilson:Yes, I don't know. I didn't think that's hard about it.
Captain:People were like basically like eye level with her, like walking towards her. Someone else did say that it's possible that her body was like really she really did die on the statue but no one's noticing her because it's driving home the contrast of like how she's, she's never enough to draw attention to her and her visions of what she's always wanted is like the applause in the in the eyes of like in her, you know, as if she did this great performance in the concerto, but she's who she's always been, which is like tim and nobody so the director hasn't said?
Captain:I don't think the director said like there's really not much about what the director believes as far as I saw, um, but there's a lot of discussion online about what people think, so I don't know. I I like the idea of it's her soul, like she gave her soul to the devil, because there's that whole speech about the devil's trill and how somebody was like you know remember, like at the dinner. I think the story is like somebody sold their soul or whatever yeah, I do like that ending more.
Wilson:I just, if that is the case, I wish it was more apparent. I mean, how much more? I mean yeah.
Captain:I more apparent. I mean, how much more? I mean yeah, I mean they could have done a few more seconds of a scene. That made it more clear.
Wilson:I mean, I don't need a guy coming up on screen and being like this means that she sold her soul. But I don't know, just a little extra spooky-ooky in it.
Captain:Yeah, zoo Quirk, I don't really know. There's really not much about her on here. Um, there's also not a lot of box office because this was a uh streaming film, so I don't really have numbs for you either.
Wilson:Um, I know I think black box is the same way you can give me some rating nums rating nums.
Captain:Oh yes, there are rating nums. Um. It holds a 63 on rotten tunas as of right now, um, and then audience score is a 40, um. So it's kind of like mixed um, you're fucking letterboxd.
Wilson:Critics thought it was cute.
Captain:Yeah, 2.9, yeah, 2.9 out of 5 um, yes, and then there is some like little hot goose, but we've talked about a lot of it. Um, okay zoo quirk is a directorial, but she also wrote it and directed, so she did both parts of that. Yes, and then Noct. Oh yeah, we already talked about that. Oh, I did look up. Okay, nocturne, like the definition, is a short composition about a romantic, like dreamy character, so like that's what that means.
Wilson:So like it's, it's actually like a musical term I'd forgotten to like one, like I remember wondering what it stood for and then I didn't even think to look it up. Yeah, that's because I'm a podcast expert you're a pro um, oh.
Captain:and then I saw some things online comparing this movie to other movies. So Black Swan obviously, two female artists competing against one another for the same prestigious or same role at a prestigious institution, one of who is questioning her sanity Very similar. I also saw a movie called the Perfection, I think, which I always think is very similar to this. I think that's what it's called the perfection the one with allison williams I thought they were hiking in that movie. Who's allison williams?
Wilson:she's the one in get out.
Captain:There's like the younger oh yeah, yeah, it is allison williams hiking I thought there was like.
Wilson:When I watched the trailer it looked like a lot of outdoors stuff, but um, seeing the cover art, that doesn't make sense.
Captain:So she's, uh yeah, and the perfectionist. I did watch this movie. She is a troubled musician. Prodigy charlotte returns to her prestigious, prestigious music school to find her. The star pupil lizzie has taken her place. The star pupil Lizzie has taken her place and the pair embarked on a sinister path. That movie is giving, like these two movies in my head are very similar.
Wilson:I mean, it's not like twins? Yeah, it sounds similar, based on how you're describing it. Yeah, but okay, look at that cover photo and tell me that is not Rachel Brosnahan. For the perfection, rachel Brosnahan, who's Rachel?
Captain:Brosnahan, the perfection, rachel brosnahan, who's rachel like, uh, like marvelous, mrs mazel.
Wilson:Oh that girl, oh yeah, that does not look like allison williams to me oh yeah, this like half violin thing, yeah yeah oh yeah, I could definitely see that interesting.
Captain:Um, yeah, the hair, it's just really the hair. Um, but yeah, that's. That's all the hot goose I have I mean, what are your?
Wilson:what?
Captain:are your like? Thoughts on the movie. What are you? Where we at? What are we thinking?
Wilson:um, I'm gonna have to give it up like I did not damn I didn't even get a number. I don't know, I'd give it like a 40. Okay, okay one. It probably didn't help that I fell asleep.
Captain:I don't think I was expecting. You gotta get to bed at different times so that you're not so tired falling asleep to movies.
Wilson:I think I don't. I don't know. I wasn't expecting it to be as deep as they apparently meant it, and it was kind of slow.
Captain:Yeah, I think the hardest thing for me in the movie is that I think there's close to 20 minutes or in the beginning where I was like pick it up and it's already an hour and a half movie yeah, so you need to move it um yes, but what would you rate it? I mean I wouldn't say it's like amazing, I mean it's good, I mean it's fine. It's fine um, I don't know, like a 53 okay, alright it's fine.
Captain:I think Black Swan is better oh yeah, yeah, that's a really good movie if you were gonna compare it, if you wanted to look for a movie that was like a similar vibe, I I would just say do that, do that one oh yeah, just watch black swan yeah, um, yeah, I will say these. This movie was supposed to be like our better movie and the movie we did like last episode was not, and we these really were flipped.
Captain:I uh, I'm very surprised. Um, do you have a, you know, a little rag moment I do have yeah.
Wilson:So this one was tough for me to find raise a glass. But if I had to pick one, I was like, not jaw dropped but shocked whenever the sister, just like, ran off the cliff that's a good one it got me, it got me good. What was yours?
Captain:There's like a small nightmare scene where Juliet sees Moira in her room with like her head bashed in and dented and like she's bloody and smiling at her.
Wilson:Oh my gosh, I forgot about that yeah, that scene was really good freaky that was like they.
Captain:That's where like their special effects she was smiling yes, that's where their special effects budget went. I like, I feel like that is like it looked really good, like the like, the bloodiness and like it, the head denting, like it didn't look fake, um. So, and sydney's screen sweeney is like she's stuck in a nightmare so she like can't scream, but she's trying to, um.
Wilson:So yeah, I liked that one oh, you know what that actually makes me think? Given that moira died, that makes me think that sydney sweeney's character also died no, that makes sense.
Captain:But like yeah, I guess. Do you think moira found the notebook from somebody else? Like this is a cyclical. Well, I guess they hadn't had death at the campus before I don't know.
Captain:I mean she could have like a relative or something that she got the book from, or yeah, I'm not sure I mean it looked like fairly new, so somebody made it recently you know, in the movie the last page of the notebook was like ripped out, um, like the sacrifice page and sydney sweeney has to like. She basically like draws it from, like she's not, her hands are drawing it for her, like unconsciously, but they don't really explain why the last page was ripped out.
Wilson:Hmm, now that.
Captain:I think about it Maybe.
Wilson:Moira messed it up and she just died died I don't know.
Captain:Oh, she did the wrong type of sacrifice and the right type of sacrifice is your soul.
Wilson:Or she got like scared, scared, tore the page out and she's like I'm not doing this and I, yeah, I don't know. There's like I need somebody to just kind of give me a hint, just tell me I don't, do we?
Captain:we don't watch her rip that paper out in the beginning, do we? I don't?
Wilson:I don't remember that.
Captain:Yeah, and then I do have.
Wilson:We have two raising glasses.
Captain:No, but I thought I had an honorable mention in here.
Wilson:I mean, that's like a second raising glass.
Captain:It's fine. I don't even know what it was, I don't even remember. But yeah, I don't think I would recommend yeah, me neither.
Wilson:It's like it's fine. I would not go out of my way to recommend. I mean, maybe if somebody was like I fucking loved Black Swan, I need to see any movie of that type, I'd be like, okay, yeah, you could check out Nocturne.
Captain:Yeah, it's fine.
Wilson:That's the only time.
Captain:Otherwise, never again, no, okay. So, oh man, do you know what we're doing next time? No, I can pull it up. Really quick, I can pull it up faster.
Wilson:Do you know what we're doing next time? No, I can pull it up really quick.
Captain:I can pull it up faster too late, oh my gosh, we're doing Night Swim you got me. Oh, that's that new one yeah, that movie that had terrible reviews but it looks so fun and like stupid so I I kind of want to. I really wanted to see it, but I don't think it's going to be good, wilson um just fyi I'm yeah, I want to see that, but I'm not
Captain:expecting much yes, um how's it, do you have? Oh, yes, well ed b's. I don't know, I think what I think, well, I was gonna say I think my advice I kind of already like covered. That's like, um, I don't know, if you're a twin like branch out, you do not have to do the exact same thing as your twin. Like same, I mean same career, same instrument, same school, same dream of college. I'm like girl, like I don't know.
Wilson:Do your own hobbies.
Captain:Take a quiz, like one of those like what's your? I don't know something. I don't know, uh, something I don't know. Find a hobby, do knitting. I'll just something else. This is too much. That's, that's my advice.