Inside the Music Industry Ft Ademola Alugo | OffAir Show S9 EP11

The music industry is changing fast and not everyone is keeping up 

On this episode of Off Air, we sit down with a top record label executive Ademola Alugo, to break down the real state of the Nigerian music industry. From female representation to algorithms, streaming, and influencer marketing, nothing is off limits.

We also explored what labels look for, the truth about “trending” songs, how platforms like TikTok shape success, and what new artists need to break through today while challenging the system and industry norms along the way.

00:00 Introduction
 01:53 Meet the Guest: VP Dapper Music
 03:17 Why Labels Don’t Sign More Women
 04:37 What Labels Look for Before Signing Artists
 11:17 Organic Hits vs Engineered Hits
 33:01 Advice for New Artists Trying to Blow
 45:32 Is Afrobeats to the World Slowing Down?
 1:01:18 Global Misunderstanding of Afrobeats
 1:09:49 Fan Mail
 1:16:34 Moniezone

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

the there's a disproportion in the industry so why not try and make it more so are you saying that they're less um talented female artists i'm saying that they're less female artists generally like i'm saying that there are more male artists in there than the artist you guys so that means you guys aren't signing them so that means so that means that you are going to have like more shitty male artists wasn't so scary was it it wasn't it wasn't good like i'm i'm i'm a fan of you guys as well like i was just very very happy to be here to have conversations with you some artists are bigger on instagram than in real life welcome to another episode of off air my name is baby hi i'm tools what was that that's that's i'm i'm being demure sure after all i'm a demuran um welcome to a new show how was that how's your week been so far good bad just uh don't worry we're gonna be with you for the next i don't even know how long this episode is gonna be but you're gonna have fun relax forget anything that's stressing you and get ready for you know some laughs and a little bit of mischief from not me from okay sure this episode we're going to be talking about the music industry the music industry evolves things happen all the time we need to know you know what's happening how the algorithms are behaving how you can blow and all those things we've talked about this a few times but it is very important that we discuss because it's such a broad topic it's very important that we discuss various aspects of it and we're gonna have in an expert I'll call him an expert in the studio to discuss that further we also have fan mail we've also got money zone and all of that so watch out for that all right it is time to meet our guest he is the vice president of Dapper Music and his name is Ademala Alugo did I get it right no no trick okay okay say it say it say it's Alugo I don't know why you're laughing because you didn't try to I did better once Alugo Alugo yes Alugo okay welcome Demola yeah how are you how many how many are me under the you like I don't even know but like just call me Demo it's fine okay okay okay welcome welcome welcome apparently you thought this was like a wholesome like family friendly we thought we're gonna be like Christina Mampo what's her name like not really gag that shock welcome okay very nice uh be here yes as you can see we're not very serious but we try to be so we're here talk about music you being the vice president of DAPA music um can we talk about the artists just list out the artists under your record label do you have time oh wow okay how much time do you have okay five no it's not more than five no it's it just give us five okay um tml vibes cash coming ti blaze balloranking bad boy oml okay okay any female artists female artists we we're working with the couple so that's not guys are you guys always scared to sign female artists why i i mean i wouldn't say that we are but like it's a thing where if the metrics make sense if it makes sense on paper to do the deal we'll do it like the industry is male dominated no like for every like um female artist that you have like there's probably you know like five ten male artists so like the there's a disproportion in the industry so why not try and make it more so are you saying that there are less um talented female artists I'm saying that they're less female artists generally like I'm saying that there are more male artists in the industry than the artist you guys so that means you guys aren't signing them so that means so that means that you are going to have like more shitty male artists as well so mention one talented female artist who is not necessarily big like the most talented female artist you know I don't like most is relatives but like I like I like Rhea like she makes like really good songs okay okay yeah I love Fave I know you didn't ask me but I love Fave Fave is like you know I think that Fave is a blown artist so like I wouldn't like it would feel like you know like a stain on our talent to say that she's not you know big enough so you know this King Maddie it's just like a lot of people that are just amazing as well.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

Can I just go in and ask a particular question okay and I'm not judging anyone and I don't want you guys to judge me either but I feel like there is a particular profile or type of artist that you guys like to sign and I will refer to former signees your Shea vibes your um uh what's his name Charlie Poppy was his brother signed as well Zerodio yeah it was not signed it was he was to these people is there a set what do you guys look for when you sign artists um if you ask me personally what we look for is marketability what artists can you pick from this particular point um with the fewest amount of dollar to conversion rate and that you can work on like that some people would prefer certain types of artists but for us it's a case of this particular artist can scale at this particular level is it the sort of artist that will appeal to the trenches and at the same time maybe cross over what maybe remove your filter say what say what you want to say to trenches yes okay yes yes yes but people would have expected a call trench first okay yeah okay as you are sorry continue okay so the way that I look at it is look at the demographic of Nigeria itself look at where we have the largest core of people where we have like the largest listeners of music if you take that data to compare it to like the larger society because people like things that look a certain way feel a certain way but if you look at it the easiest way for you to get from one to ten to a hundred or like hundreds of a thousand is that demographic yeah and people love a grass to gray story.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yeah so um so obviously both of us have um well we're in the music industry still kind of double um for for for a while and I have seen different trends in music um I was still on radio when it seems like songs got significantly shorter you'd have like a song that was generally I think when I started radio songs are like sort of between three to four minutes you know four minutes and then we got to a stage where songs are like two and a half minutes and in terms of even the way they were being released so you'd have again sort of when I started you'd have like an artist release a single and the single will be you know pushed for like a good few months they will do the rounds and everything and then around that time I think Olemde was one of the main people that did this um you you drop like a two two two minute two and a half minute song yeah and then two weeks later you've got another song. Yeah so where are we now? Because right now music music um social media is very very very big when it comes to how successful a song is I know that um certain record labels when their artist um is about to drop a song they already have the TikTok influences working either they're gonna you know do dances you know they're gonna make it into a sound they're going to you know do do all these different things so as somebody that has to know about these things and has to know about the trends what's happening now?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So what I would say is that more than ever before we have so much music going out. Yeah music that goes out in a month now is significantly more than what went out in a year like say like a dec a decade ago. So because of that it means that the attention span has grown like really short. So if I have to listen to say 10 artists like in a week or something and now you could just stumble on a hundred different types of artists. So it means that the filter has become like very narrow it's the same way that people scroll on like social media if this thing interests you you look you pause you look if this thing doesn't you scroll past it's the same way like you know like fast consumption of anything else that's the way that that's why I put it down to do you know the interesting thing what you said actually also um has hit the film industry uh Ben Affleck and what's his name his friend oh uh Matt Damon yeah Ben Affleck and Matt Damon um they released a film last year uh I can't remember the name they were I think police officers and they were just talking about how things have changed and apparently um a lot of the film you know um production companies are basically saying that films need to be dumbed down right because they people need to be able to watch the film while scrolling on their phones.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

So if you make it to so so there's certain things that before they'd be like keep it a mystery and now they're like oh A plus A is this did you hear a so it's it's actually very interesting that we I don't think people really understand how big social media is how big how big of a part it plays with entertainment in general. Yeah because um now I think that if you have a song if you have a good song if it doesn't trend on social media is it still considered a good song depends on for a hit song.

SPEAKER_05 9:31

Is the difference between a hit song and a good song there's so many good songs or does it become a hit song?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Which was my next question to say so is the algorithm now the new AR um definitely not but what I would say is that the algorithm it distributes um I think off air you were saying um you checked a couple things or tools was saying she checked a couple things and she's having the algorithm bring her a bunch of those things so that's what's happening with the way that music is as well um what platforms focus on is a lot more retention did you play the song to the end did you share it did you save it did you pre-save it before the songs came out do you understand so all of these things go into what type of songs are being pushed what type of songs are being given visibility so if you say that it's the algorithm the new A and R, it's not it's I would be lying if I said that you know to a certain extent or to a certain degree that doesn't determine what people are consuming. But it isn't the entire case because you need to understand what the system is rewarding. For platforms to understand they want to know that oh people are staying in here they're listening to songs to the end they're sharing with people they're going outside of the app to you know like transfer the music to say you're posting directly from um Apple Music on your story or something to Instagram there's a way that you know that is being portrayed. So it's the system clocks all of these things then there's data that is being collected I think that that's a part that we do not realize a lot that there's a lot of data in in like being collected a lot of data being given out so all of these things influence what we see what we hear and what we listen to.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

But it's not organic though because what happens is now people are farming a lot. I know you're not you're not gonna say it I'm not I'm not tied to any record so I can say it a lot of people are farming. What people are doing is paying the tens of thousands of dollars or should I say tens of millions of naira to appear on the number one or to be even playlisted one or to appear on the number one chart on certain streaming uh sites but they hit me with a lawsuit you understand so that's because what some people do or what a lot of people do is go look at the top 10 or the top 15 or 20 on that chart on that streamer and people are paying heavily to get there. I hear that so once they do that and they're not only just doing that they're also deploying thousands of micro influencers on Instagram and on Twitter paying them as little as two to three thousand naira to dance. Yeah so it's not like this person just loves to dance it's just that that that's their daily too case is being okay dance to this song by this artist today dance to that song by another artist tomorrow so it's not organic.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah I I hear what you're saying and uh my feedback to that is that to what end and at what level are you able to do that at um say the very biggest um artists that we have for instance look at Thames look at Ashafke Wiz and all of that you're not able to farm or fake or you're not able to do like the fake influencing to that particular level I hear they're combining everything.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yes they have huge um they have huge fan bases yeah but I hear that they also put marketing dollars towards farming so I don't I don't know about it so so I would I would I would say I would say this so um what um I'm gonna ask a question first who do you think is now behind um the success of songs like who do you think is it the is it the actual music lovers is it the people that you know are on social media and are dancing to you know and and love the song so who is actually who when you're putting together a plan you've got an artist you've got a new song uh new project that you're gonna drop what are you looking at like the like the four or five key areas that you're like okay we need to you know get a big tick here we need to get a big tick here we need to get a big big tick here what are like the three or four things that you are like we need to work on that okay I hear what you're saying and um I appreciate that question because for me the way that you look at it is every song is different.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

So for this particular song for this particular artist I'm I'm a numbers guy. I look at it okay where are they streaming you the most who are the people that are listening to your music what's the demographic of like the people that are listening to the music that you're listening to who are the people that we can cross over say okay this audience is similar to these particular people that are not listening. Say for instance you have an audience of 18 to 24 year olds listening to your music it means that you can convert 16 17 year olds to to listen to that music it means that you can convert people like 25 26 as well to get to this particular place. Do you understand what I'm saying? So for me it's a combination of factors you need to um look at what the fans want to listen to you need to see what exactly is going in that moment in time do you understand at the start of a year if you put out a song that that speaks to prosperity that lets people get like that feel good feeling you understand don't we got me because we discussed don't mind it because we discussed the particular song before we just there's a way there's a way that there's a way that you know people would receive that you understand so there's elements of strategy in the way that you need to put um songs out there's elements of other things as well but you need to just find what best works for this particular song or what's like this artist has going for them already so what's the what's the if you had to give us a formula what's the formula that was my next question actually for me personally like I said I think that there's there are no two songs that are exactly alike. So if you're trying to put out this particular song what would work for it would probably fail for another song. So if you ask me I think building community around your music is something that is really hard. If I ask you for instance now that you know who are the most streamed artists in Nigeria I don't think that I think that you have an idea but I don't think you would know like the exact artist that you know like has like the highest amount of streams inside of Nigeria and I'll give you like somebody that ranks very high is Omale. And Omale for instance now what he has is like core listeners people that you know come ring come shine they're going to listen to his music they're not people that listen to this music on week one of release or they find it on Instagram or something they go they go to listen to they pre-save yeah they go to listen to old songs I'm a mess they go to listen to them they go to listen to attention for them emo people man do you understand like just bear people that I love they know the people that they want to listen to and they just go there they call through the noise it's not the all good and that's telling them oh go listen to this particular thing no like they know where they so it's almost I I feel like you're saying if you're trying to play a long term game um you can do the streaming you could do the what's it called the farming you can do all of this if you want to but the core thing is to build a fan base like build build a fan base a fan base that you connect with regularly yeah okay I feel like you can also attest to it like in the way that you know the superstars that we have today the way that it came up you know the Wheeze Burner all of that like it took a long time for them to build a core of people that are stand today people that you know come what mate they're going to fight you like shirtless with for Davio for Whisked for Burnable do you understand?

SPEAKER_05 16:43

So it's something that they've built over time and if you want to fake influence people be people are going to be onto you in like two weeks like six months how important is radio in this music conversation so you have a release um back in the day you know we had your Alabama Alaba was your major distribution plan now there's no more alaba radio has lost its influence you know to a certain degree how important uh how how important is radio how important are those TV channels that videos now does the music video even does it matter MTV is gone or um even the DJs back in the day because I used to plug for artists once you have a release apart from the Alaba things to make sure that you are on those playlists that used those DCs they used to distribute you would speak to the radio personalities you speak to their DJs you would go to the DJ meeting on Monday yeah and talk to them yeah you know you would do so many other things what are you how where are those people now like I hear what you and for me what I think is that evolution like in life in a lot of things in the way that people do a lot of other things as things have just evolved the way like before now people had to go to classes to like um attend class write notes and all of that but now you can do all of that online so it's just a case of evolution and you need to evolve with the times as opposed to complain where like Jay Z calls it like swimming against the tide.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

So if you're trying to say oh like this thing is not the way that it used to be get with the program not a lot of things are the way that they used to be so right now the you know marketing markers they are like indicators of things that you need to do that are a little different from others but I wouldn't say that traditional media like radio or TV stations are not important. I'm saying that you need to not only bank on those you need to know that okay if I'm making provisions for this I need to make provisions for other people I need to like an influencer could just sit down and say oh I listen to this song it's just trash like it's like you don't it's not worth your time do you understand? And people are like yeah like you're speaking my mind it's not that do you understand so what then happens to all of the effort that goes into TV and all of that that's the reason why some people feel they need to you know engineer that as well do you understand so for every pro that you have that's like you know corresponding con that just bring so let me let me ask you this question and you have to be completely honest.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

So when one of your artists um comes and basically says I've got a new song that I want to I've recorded I want to put out there when you listen to it are you listening and think um are you listening to check if it's a great record or are you listening to check if it's something that can trend being honest a little bit of and the reason is that you need a moment a song needs a moment right but if you look at it like this if you have a song that doesn't have substance it's not a great song but it has a moment what it would look like is like a candle that you light it burns out after a while.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Also if you have great content that doesn't have a moment that you can capture right it's like firewood without like sparks so the way that I look at it is you need to look for a blend or you need to find a leverage that you know brings like a synergistic alliance between those things. So take for example like when Freeman was released in 2020 there wasn't a lot of oh let us dance or create this particular cut out this 15 second period let people go do it or it re-entered like global chart in 2023. So it goes to tell you that like a moment right is something that you need but you don't necessarily have to go out there to engineer it's the way that you know like that's the way that me I think what I used to tell artists and labels back in the day was that your chorus matters a lot.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

Is it a danceable chorus or is it a song or is it a chorus that has easy lyrics to sing? Yeah so or is there yeah is there a part in the song where you know like you said a moment basically I remember talking to um your brother in law years ago by the way when they were still you know fully oh I was gonna be like which one of them sorry go on and you said that they used to play Wizz's songs for the kids his kids and if they dance to it or or skillsy songs they know that okay yeah because kids are honest yeah and if they don't dance to it it's not it's not gonna it's it's not gonna it's not gonna go far yeah same thing I was watching a a um at a documentary about strip clubs and how important they are especially in the ATL scene and how rappers said before they would release any song to the radio they would take it to the strip clubs even when the girls were because during the week they'll practice during the day they'll practice if the girls cannot shake ass to that song particular song it's not as DOA but this is so different things happen for different you know like how you mentioned free mind everybody knows they might not even know the name of the song yeah but the moment yes this is the PC cannab and and once we already know once any American or foreign babe starts putting that song on her story she's sleeping with one Nigerian that we already know it's What is the truth?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

So it's No no no, it's a m it's a bunch of things. When uh when that happens, when um she she starts like eating Jolo frice Jolo. I love that Jolo frice. You know, yeah, I was gonna say it's deep. It's that when she starts listening to the music, there's a guy that's talking to her that she's been in his car a few times and everything. When she starts eating the jolo fries, he's taking her to a restaurant. Well, when she starts eating the foo-foo, it's over. It's over. All right, let's talk about the big three. Do you think that um obviously, you know, with Kid Burner and David O, do you think that they would have uh break out the same way if they were starting today?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I think they would break out, but I don't think they'll break out the same way. So something that something that is happening today is that the attention span and the incubator period that people have is not something that they had back in the day. There were times when, you know, like uh big thuggy as we have them today, they struggled. Like they had risen to permanence, but there was still a bit of okay, like you know that there was David, there was Wiz, there's burner, but like they were behind at Peace Quare. Like T-Bands is going to you know perform our shows that before or ahead of that this guy shut down. But something that they had is like a grace period where they think Marinelity could they add like incubator systems, and something more than anything else that nobody can actually take away from them is like there's something very authentic, true to self that all of them have individually. You know, um David, there's the warmth about him. Everybody remembers the way that they feel after an interaction with him, the way that you just look at David and M. Yeah, the other people like Bernard, right? He has like that complex and conviction about his music, like the global superstars of the world. When they are in Bernard's presence, you see that they feel the need to comport. Like they're almost like, oh, like I'm in presence of greatness. And there's something about ways where it's like an effortless swagger, like something that just doesn't need caption, doesn't need explaining. It's just like, bro, like I can't be so all of those very well answered. Yeah, all of those things, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

None of them wouldn't come for you.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

So all of those things, if you look at it, if you look at it, all of those things, they have like a way to speak to people, and great artists of the past have some or like you know, elements of these things about them. You get me?

SPEAKER_02 24:15

I think the way that they've also um, particularly, I would say, Waze and David, the way that they've built their fan base. I don't know if that's something that um artists can replicate nowadays because they have like I remember when I'm doing a project with Acer, and there's like a it's almost like politics. There's almost like a regional coordinator, uh this one and this one and that one and everything. And I'm just like, damn. And these are people that these are these are not people that they employed, these are people that started a movement, started a movement, and then they were noticed, and you know, they were like, okay, fine, let's get let's get together.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Yeah, I think also that we also need to note that they were not built in a day, yeah, you know, um, so it took some time. All these people you are mentioning now, it took these 15 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

15 years in a year.

SPEAKER_05 25:09

It took some time for that to happen. Um, another person who has like a great community base is that they called gold. Yes. Um, he he's the only artist that I know that sends newsletters to Japan. Like I received. They get these newsletters, they rejoice as if you put money inside because they like to feel like remember the psychologist that we had um a couple of seasons back on the show. We're talking about Big Brother, yeah. We're talking about Big Brother and Stanship, and she said, Look, generally, the average human being is lonely and they want to feel part of something. Yeah, I'm sorry. So for so that is why they go so hard, yeah, you know, with these big these stan groups and these oh whether they're you are a 30 bg person or a space person or whatever it is you want to call because they want to feel like part of a collective, yeah. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Do you do you remember? Sorry, uh we had we had this episode where we had um I don't know why we did this. We had a 30 bg rep and then we had like a uh what's it called? FC FC, whisked, whisked FC. So we had them, and literally, like we had them as guests.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Did you have securities though? Like, did you have like security of cars?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

They were going at each other, and this one was like, That's why your artists did this, that's why your artists did this. Then it came down to it. Have you met them?

SPEAKER_05 26:22

No, do they know you personally?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

No. So I just was like, you're literally your life is on the line. One of them is online, like just you know um claimed that Tools and I hated Wiz and we didn't like him. And I'm looking at that time that we tried to rob him.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

That was a joke, yeah. And then, no, no, no. I think what happened, we were talking about we were teasing a guest on our show on the previous season, and we're teasing her about possibly dating Wiz. Yeah, and then Wizky D MC, FC. Old you know something where you've recorded something, yeah, and then they just happened to see it once after and decided to attack us, yeah. Like attack us in hordes. I must have blocked like 5,000 people that day. Oh my god. But before I block you, I'll abuse your mommy, your daddy, because as you abuse me, I abused you back, yeah, and then I'll block you. And then so he was one of those, and I also blocked him, by the way. And then so he and so we're like, so after we said, So have you met him? And he was like, No, no, we're not like, and then funny enough, the week before, Wiz was I think in her house or something.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

No, no, no, we went for it was his um, I think it's what it is his kids' birthday. Yes, so we as much as I hate Wiz, I was at his kids' birthday. His kid's birthday.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

There was a video with you, you know, and he was playing with my kids, and so we're like, Did you see the clip? And he was like, Yes, our social is like a toy. I was like, Okay, so explain again.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

You've not even smelt this person's presence, but us who if phone call it we, yeah, we can call it have like a relationship.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

You don't know what conversations we're having with this person, whether in person or yeah, by the DMs, yeah. Rant, but you swear because we had the class captain.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

It was it was it was deep, it was it was so deep because I remember um I think there was one time that I was in Ghana when they were still like in Ghana, and um uh I I ended up having lunch with Jada. And oh my gosh, she's this snake! She's this snake, and I'm just like so. I feel like we've I I don't I don't think I've actually ever explained this on air, so I'll say it. Um, Wiz Kid Berna and David, we knew them from the very, very beginning. So I can I can never say I'm a you know um Wiz Kid FC, I can never say I'm 30 BG, I can never say this because it feels like it's weird because I saw literally I remember the like an in Dani episode like Whiz that you know like you cannot mention any of these people's um stories without mentioning the beats.

SPEAKER_05 28:50

Do you understand? So outside of the beats, you know, personal events, didn't he attend? Didn't Wiz and Wale come to your wedding? Didn't there's so many things hang out? Yeah, what's it called? The aristocrat house.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, Wiz was um at my wedding, David O was at my wedding, burner boy. Uh, because his his manager Koch used to work at the station. Yeah, I would be the one that Koch is like, he oh, he did this, he did this. I'd be like, tell him to come, burner, sit down. But why would you do that? So it's really weird when somebody says you don't like this. And I'm like, and I'm like, when you were but a speck in your father's eye, I was already in the world.

SPEAKER_05 29:28

You know what it is, also here's what it is. We have a new group of a large group of people who are also quite young, yeah, and we're probably in primary school when this was happening. So think this is 2026, let's say 10, 12 years ago, not even that far, but they were super young, yeah, probably didn't have access to the internet. Yeah, so they think because your mommy didn't let you know, they don't understand, they don't know the history and things like that. So it's always so funny. I'm just like, are you joking? Wiz who used to bring me flowers and chocolate cake. Are you joking? Because he knew that's what I liked. Like, or or let me give you an example now. Um, somebody let's leave leave Niger. I think something happened a few couple of years ago where TikTok resurrected one of Mr. Elliot's old songs from back in the day that we all as millennials would know. And somebody said, Wow, there's this new artist called Mr. Elliot. Are you mad? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Or or or or when they said, or when they said um when Duncan Mighty and Wiz did a song, and they're like, Oh, there's this new artist that Whiskey Butter. Yeah, that was. I was like, Duncan Mighty, Duncan Mighty, that was oh.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

I asked someone if they know, ah gosh, who was it now? It was a female artist, even no so-and-so person. Person had like solid, I don't want to mention who, so it won't be like I'm trying to downplay the person, whatever, but person had solid songs back in the day and top music, and the person is in their 20s, and they were like almost 13. They were like, Oh, I don't remember. Hey, this person was eh, wow, the songs are not bad. And I'm like, so those are the people because again, and again, and again, I always say you cannot be a gainfully employed, sane person who has things to do, a family to feed, and do you understand you are hustling and you sit down and be quarreling on social media, going from blog to blog to be insulting people, your head is not correct because your idolo, I be what they call it.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I I I feel that I remember being at um an event and I don't know what happened. I think there was a tiff between um is it David and um I can't remember if it if it was Wiz or you know Berna. One of them did something, and I'm at this event with grown-ass people. Grown ass people that have grown ass kids. What happened? And one of them is like, no, me, I'm 30 PG, I'm 30 PG. I'm like, you need to think about your retirement plan. That's what you need to be thinking about. Is your blood pressure okay? How is your sugar? How's your cholesterol? That's what you should be worrying about. So essentially, just to wrap this, just to wrap this whole thing up, I for me, because of when I started, you know, in music and everything, it's actually very, very important for me that all of them do well. That all of them do well because it's something, it's something very, I don't know what the word is.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

Specific house that you built.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Yes, the fact that I I remember when I first met them. I remember like I will always remember um when Asa brought um David with a single, his first single, and you know, David's back then, Ace's like, oh, this is you know, and listen to him, I'm like, okay, this isn't bad, this isn't bad. And then, you know, I'm like, cool, we'll see what we can do. Yeah, with Bernard as well. We literally, I mean, Wiz, it wasn't I ended up marrying um somebody uh part owner of EME. So that one, that one, I was like, I would be hearing things first. I'd be like, okay, okay, okay. But anyways, let's let's move on.

SPEAKER_05 32:57

Let's let's talk about the let's talk about if you so I'm so sorry. Quick question. I was at a restaurant the other day, yeah, and the restaurant tables were so close. So there was a mom and a girl sitting there, beautiful girl, light skin, you know, the typical Nigerian spec. And so she went to the bathroom, and then her mom was on the phone, and she was like, Yeah, we're here in Nigeria to meet with a few producers to see how this music thing will go. And my heart went out to them. I was like, Hey, you want to join Nigerian music industry sister? Never didn't know her name. Yeah, I hope you didn't say anything to them. No, I wanted to say, you know, in my mind, I was you know when you're in your mind having a conversation to say, ah, I wish her the best. So the Lord is with you. Do you understand? She was like, Yeah, we flew in to speak to some producers.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

You could say they were from America, and I was just of all the of all the artists in the game, if if it's five percent, they're successful, if it is, that's you know, anyways. So let's talk about let's let's let's um move on a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 33:56

Um, let's talk about the leading to that to say if a fresh new artist was entering the industry today, what advice would you give this person to say you want to blow a B, this is what you need to do. Are you gonna tell them to go the controversy route? Are you gonna tell them to go oh talent first route? Are you gonna tell them go and do as many free shows as you want as you can? Are you gonna tell them pay as many blogs as you can? What will you tell them to do? Because it's this industry.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

To be fair, like something that I always do not try to do is to act like I am constituted authority on anything. But in my own books, it is talent, visibility, and whatever exposure you're able to do.

SPEAKER_05 34:40

Talent, because there are some big artists that are not talented.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

So you're saying that how do you move today if you were just breaking out? And talent is something that you don't pay for, like if you have it, you have it, right? And visibility is a case of okay, you're online, you're performing three shows, you're doing something for somebody to pay. So I'll give you an example. Everybody in and around the music industry were aware of Ashake's ability or greatness to some degree. You know, if you ask 10, if you act like people that they were just closed, they will tell you. If you ask people that were in the OAU, you know, like the Black Bones made a tweet and it's like the greatest performer in our industry is in the OAU, like way back when I don't have the exact time. So very, very old. So it's like the talent was always there, and the exposure in terms of okay, I know this particular person, this person can get me to calamity, this person can get me. Do you understand? That was what you know it was in and around. And the movement, yeah, it's like if you have talent, then you should try to like do visibility and just try to leverage everything else that you're able to leverage. It might take a bit of time because pre-2020, people were aware of who I care about, do you understand? Or like how much and the rest of him is and you can see a move like a superstar that you know is for me. If you want to break out something that you should be able to do if you know that, okay, you're you know very, very passionate about it, but talent disability is the next thing just walk your way up from there.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Okay, so now let's talk about um the whole Afrobeats thing on a global level. Is the Afrobeats movement is it dead? Afrobeats to the world. Afrobeats to the world, is it still going heavy or is it? Um, I would say that it's definitely slowing down. I'll say it's definitely slowing down. And I think that what happened was I feel that a lot of the people in the abroad, a lot of the, you know, um decision makers or whatever, I don't feel like they fully understood what Afrobeats was. And I don't know if that's because I don't I'm not quite sure the reason behind that. I also feel that um, you know, there's some people that were like, oh, this Afrobeats is cool, this is cool, but they don't really understand it. Um the let me give you an example. That is why um Tyler is winning best Afrobeats. Now, let me say this. I am actually a massive Tyler fan. I I like Tyler's very, you know, like when you're getting ready, you know, me. So very and and I love what she does, but it's not Afrobeats. It's pop. I feel like Tyler should be in the pop categories. She's not Afrobeats. So for me, that just shows that um the certain decision makers, they don't really understand what it is. And I also feel that perhaps this is my personal opinion, I also feel like some of our artists didn't really come together and build something that was not going to just be like a flash in the pan. Um, think about back in Sean de Paul, back in the Sean Paul, like when Ragga was, it felt like every everybody had, even Gwen Stefani, no doubt, I'm showing my AGS, had like a Ragga song, um, sorry, a dance hall song and everything. So, but but what but what I feel is like they worked together a lot, didn't they? They worked together a lot, and then there was just something a bit different with their movement. So when the whole Afrobeats of the World thing started, I was like, let's see what's gonna happen. I feel that there are um other things that are um part of this equation. Again, like you've said as well, um, people having shorter attention spans. Yeah. Um when it was Sean Paul, what we're doing, where we're listening to the radio, where I was doing, I used to do mixtapes with my friends. Ah, that was me. So when I when I was when I was when we'd be um like going on holiday, my friends would be like, okay, we're going to like we're going to New York and everything. Yeah. We'd be we'll be flossing, but all of us would be like in one bedroom. Like somebody would, two people on the bed, two people, anyways. But I was in charge of the music. So I'd literally like do the mixtape and everything and whatever. So things were different back then. But what do you think? Because you made me answer my own question, and you thought you were smart, but you're still gonna answer my question.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

So, what I think is the yardstick that we're measuring it against has changed. Do you understand? So it's like Afrobe to the world. Typically, before now, what would happen is um a Nigerian artist sells out the O2. The first thing that comes to your mind is uh Afrobe to the world. It's like, oh now, like that sound that we used to hear in Lagos, thing that is from Mujo Legba, Victoria Island or whatnot, is being played like in London, UK, it's being played, you know, like at the Met Stadium, it's just like so you feel that global element, but right now, like it's not a big difference. Um like Ashak sales out.

SPEAKER_06 39:19

So we've passed it out.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah, we've moved past that. Another thing that you know you need to start. I told you, I mean, I look at the numbers after beats like the listenership has grown more than 200% in Latin America. Okay, you understand? It has grown to like other parts of the world. So for me, right, I I would say that we have something of a structure problem. Where it's like there isn't like you know, like fully set up structures to allow artists to go into like their craft and flourish where some other elements or some other people, and that's what you know you would find in the West, there's a proper structure around things. Go to the world.

SPEAKER_05 40:00

When you say structure, so I need you to break it down because when you go to these music conferences and these media conferences, we hear the structure word all the time. So, can you like briefly explain what you mean by structure? So you were going there, so create as an artist.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

For instance, now, like an artist, he's an artist, don't let him worry about oh, like where the speeds are coming from, or like what the publishing is saying, where all of this particular revenue streams is going to come from. Let him create that. There is somebody on the team, but you don't put um all of these things on the shoulder of a manager because somebody wants to um book an artist, somebody wants to be on the road with the charge, and they're people that they have office jobs nine to five, that what they are supposed to do is to do analytics, what they're supposed to do is for them to okay, look at where is the streams coming from. So, where are we supposed to look at for tours? Where are we supposed to go? Where are we supposed to go next for shoes? Do you understand? What type of artists are we supposed to be collaborating with? What audience, you know, like are crossing these things. So a lot of these some people do it, but we don't have as much people doing that. Do you understand?

SPEAKER_02 41:04

So do you do you know, do you know who does it? Do you know who does it? You know who does that? Uh Mr. Easy. So, Mr. Easy, I've um one of the reasons why I always say this, I love um interviewing, I love speaking to Mr. Easy because um I feel that he with this whole music industry, there's the talent part of it which is important, but the business part of it is part of it. So uh we I had a conversation once and he was basically saying that he would never like simply just sign with, you know, as much as there was a time when Sony Universal, they were looking for African artists, they were looking for African artists, and he basically um uh was explaining to me that that's not the best route to go. Yeah, that what you could do is you could sign multiple deals. So you could say, This is my single, I'm gonna get um Sony Europe to service it. This other single, maybe I feel like it would work better in South America, I'm gonna give it to them. Yeah, so I do think that, I do think like what you said, for example, um why don't we have more collaborations with Nigerians and like South American artists? Do you remember there's this there was this song that was so popular on social media? Guys, don't make me sing it. Um, no, no. It was this francophone song. Um this uh song by a uh francophone artist. Oh, you guys are gonna make me sing. Okay, fine. The one that goes, Yimme, yimmy, yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy. I love that song, but you know what this guy did? It was already big. He now went to collaborate with like an Indian artist, and it was creative. So similar to what happened with um Rema and um Selena Gomez. So I do think that we need to be kind of, you know, like a looking out and maybe doing strategic. Not doing the just American tours, go to South America, go to, you know.

SPEAKER_05 42:48

The way you said structure, it does I don't think that you mentioned is, and some people are not gonna like this, but it is the truth. Because some of these labels have come here, they've had to hire Nigerians in in, you know, in some positions, and they don't know jack about what they're supposed to do. You were just some guy who was in the past, who was in the in the entourage of some artists and you talk to good game, and thank you, and they just put you and give you this title. Yeah, there's a lot of people like in those positions.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Do you want to care you care to name names?

SPEAKER_05 43:20

No, they know themselves, but like are you and you're looking at this person, you know, like sorry, what did you say? I just use a heart. Okay, no, I'm just saying, like you, you just like you know that this person doesn't have anything upstairs, but they've they've given them one title with so and so records, yeah. And you we all know that you used to be the guy who would drink last because you were not contributing to the drinks anyway, in the in as it as if you're saying coni position. But we all know we are okay. Artists have even the smallest artists has a crowd, a little group. Yeah, so you were one of those people, and I'm not saying that all the people who do that don't have things, but it's true. Because when you you'll be like, you are what?

SPEAKER_00 44:02

But and then like they don't have like the expertise.

SPEAKER_05 44:06

The expertise, they don't have the education, they don't have the experience. Your experience is that you follow the artist to the club a few times and on tour. Like you do, you were you didn't have a particular position. You were not the manager, you were not the people.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

So essentially, are you saying that the lack of structure that we have in the industry is what's affecting the Afro-beats personality?

SPEAKER_05 44:26

Absolutely. And there was also nothing put in place to train these people, you know, and even when there were conferences and forums and all sorts of things that people would call, the artists will not come. The crew will not come. It was honored personalities and music enthusiasts that will fill the place. So you don't know what the heck you're doing. And so you've gone and I I encourage this artist to go and take this nonsense deal. And so now they are like running from pillar to post, desperate for you know, for a what's it called, uh a hit.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:02

You know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

And I think I agree with you to a very large extent. And what I think is that over time, it's it's a it's a titting process. It's a process where like we we didn't have this platform, you know, like in the 90s or like early 2000s as we have it today. Do you understand? It's emerging. What we have today is significantly better than what we used to have in terms of like what a seeming structure looked like. So I felt like if we give it time, it's going to evolve as well. People are getting better as well.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

But do you think do you think when it finally comes together, it's going to be too late? Like, do you actually feel like this whole whole Afrobeat to the world thing has peaked?

SPEAKER_00 45:40

No. You know, so you think it's I think that until the point where we get to like a place where we put out music and the music just because it's an Afro-beat record, there's like a kid in Jakarta, like in Indonesia or something, they're like singing this particular song, like lyric for, and they don't even know where it's from, they don't know where the artist is. It feels like that is something that uh the statistics is telling us that we're still going in this particular level. Do you understand? We have a lot of money that's even unclaimed in terms of like publishing and things. So depending on how you look at it, do you understand? If you look at it in terms of discovery, right, it might not be it, it might not be so new for anybody to discover anymore, but that is it's not just going to crash down. Do you understand? So that's the way that I look at it.

SPEAKER_05 46:27

Yeah, it's interesting why artists abroad, I use the US, for example, still go to radio stations, like you know, the what's it called? The Breakfast Club, Angie Martinez's show, Angela Yi show, all these people go to Ebro, go to all these people to do interviews, the top yeah, like A-lists. But I do not recall the last time one of the top five in this country have gone to any radio station to do any interview.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I feel very passionate about that, and I might hurt your feelings if I answer that. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 47:02

Feel free. I might there. I left radio five years ago.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

All right, cool. So, like, I feel like you have like a close relationship. Like, my answer to that would be that our traditional media hasn't evolved. You know, you talk about that hurts my feelings. No, no, no, like you know, like you used to work there, so it's like the way the way that I look at it is like if you look at it, right? There's been an evolution to what how we consume um music, how we consume attention, the way that what people want to see, pretty much. So it's not a case of oh, like you have like a radio show, somebody do does this, or you're supposed to come at a particular time. So, like the Breakfast Club, you understand? You go on the show, like it's very funny. It's not necessarily like the type of structured um situation that you have. I remember like Bernard talking about, oh, like he wants to do an interview with Ebuka or something, you know, like for him to like say what was on his mind, that type of thing. So it's not to say that people don't necessarily want to do this thing, it's not the way that it used to be. There's been like an evolution in the way that people consume media, people consume film, everything else. But it feels like you know, the traditional media here is a little bit static.

SPEAKER_05 48:08

Like it's just they've not they've not evolved. Yes. So okay. So they need to do more evolving content. Yes, they need to like get with it. Respect them or regard them.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yeah, they need to get with the times. They need to, you know, like see what exactly is happening today and like how exactly it's supposed to go, you know, like maybe like I'll say that two things can be true.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Yeah, I'll say that what you said, that's fair, but at the same time, you know, a a trend that even before I left radio, I did notice that um certain artists, once they're popping internationally, coming back home is like, oh, I'm not doing, you know, you'll see you'll see them on different radio stations in the States, in the UK, this different radio stations. Yeah, but coming, but coming back to Nigeria, they could be in Nigeria for like three weeks and they won't do even one, you know. You know, people people that literally and and these these are people that um you know, before then they reached the next level of success, you know, they were friends of the station. You know, you did this, we did that for them, and everything. This is obviously while I was working at beat, and then things kind of changed. So I will say in terms of what you said, yeah, I'll say that's a fair point. But I also feel like there's this whole mental, like, oh my gosh, I'm like a superstar now.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

I don't I don't disagree. I don't disagree because you see people be very casual abroad as well, like they just talk about things, and I'm like, bro, like where's that? Yeah, where's that energy, like you know, like back home? So like I I agree with you as well that you know we can just you know make our points.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

So, what is the biggest lie upcoming artists believe about fame and success in music?

SPEAKER_05 49:45

Why did you do that? What if you see his feelings like speak now?

SPEAKER_00 49:49

So, what I think is don't be measured.

SPEAKER_05 49:51

No, should we bring you some alcohol?

SPEAKER_00 49:53

It's fine.

SPEAKER_05 49:53

You want some alcohol? No, I don't what do you want? Do you want some?

SPEAKER_00 49:57

No, no, I don't drink.

SPEAKER_05 49:58

No, I don't drink. Do you want some crack? Girl, we are not offering the guest crack. Do you smoke?

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Are you offering now?

SPEAKER_05 50:05

No, I don't have crack. I don't, she was the one who said it. Okay. I used to do you smoke.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

If I said yes, would you bring me?

SPEAKER_05 50:10

Smoke a step outside. Do you smoke? No, I don't. Okay, so what you don't drink? Did you don't smoke? Wait, wait. You are in the music industry, it must be women.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

What I don't I don't know what you speak of.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

My theory is everybody has a voice. Yes, yes, everybody has a voice. So, unless you want to say what your voice is, no, I mean I don't come up with that vision, I just like to work on it.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Like some people's vices might be, you know, like maybe working out. So, like, does that count?

SPEAKER_02 50:41

You're gonna come on our show, you're gonna look me in my coral eye, and you're gonna tell me that your vice is working out.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

I'm saying, like, you said that people have vices, and I'm saying that could that be somebody else's? Well, we're asking you, like you're asking me particularly not people.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

What's your vice?

SPEAKER_00 50:56

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

I think because it's a tough industry to what's your what's your Achilles heel?

SPEAKER_00 51:00

I might wonder.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

No, everybody like has like people find the art.

SPEAKER_05 51:05

How do you relax? Because dealing with artists is a lot of work. Don't forget, I still asked you a question because no, no, no, dealing with artists is a lot of work. Like, I remember I was supposed to interview this one artist a couple of years ago, one of your popular artists. Okay, and the person was supposed to come. You know how radio is now, it's structured, the time is from this time to this time. This time, and then the the person did not come, and then the manager came and said, I said, Oh, he's this he's here. No, he's we just had to wake him up, but he didn't want to wake up.

SPEAKER_04 51:34

Oh, did you?

SPEAKER_05 51:36

I remember when people would, I'm sure you got like requests from people when you're on radio to oh, can you manage this artist or can you look after this artist? And I used to say, I will deck the person because if we know that we're supposed to be Susie's show, for example, at 11 a.m. And then at nine, I'm waking you, and you're telling me you don't feel like I will box you. Come on, get up. Are you like so? How do you deal? Because artists are very interesting to deal with. A lot of artists are not. I think out of if you pick 10 artists, sorry, I just I just remember the story.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Um, somebody asked me to manage them, and I said you won't survive. Yeah, I would happen you won't survive. I would kill you. You know what I would do? I would so um also oh gosh, how do I say this? How do I say this without getting into trouble? Um, obviously, you know, my husband hear me and everything, and I there was a particular artist. Should I should I talk it?

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Give us a different artist.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

There were different artists. Oh, oh, until they start dragging me, and then Caleb's gonna be like, oh. So there was this, so so I saw um there was a situation where a particular artist they had was supposed to perform um at a wedding, and this was like a big, you know, I think the I'm not even gonna say the the industry, yeah, but it was like a top, top person's wedding, and um the person wasn't in town. So these people have said we want we want this person to I want I want this person to perform at my daughter's wedding, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Money had, you know, they paid and everything, and then it was a case of getting the artist um to come because they were like, I think I were they in the UK or like America. I I think it was America, so booked um business class tickets and everything, missed the flight. Miss the flight. Then um they were now, I think they they got another ticket and Mr. Flight. Then they were now like, because of the time difference in the whole, they were now like trying to sort out like a private jet and everything. And I remember sitting there and watching my husband, and then the next thing, this vein just popped up on his head. This vein just and I'm like, wow. Wow. I'm like, that wasn't there before. And I could see, and then so the vein came up on his head, and then his eyes started to turn like um like red. And so at that point, although although you know, I'd heard different stories before, so this was like, you know, this wasn't like sort of at the beginning of of my you know radio career. This was like, you know, obviously much, much later because um I was with my husband then. Yeah, then I think if there was any doubt in my mind about managing artists, I think that further solidified. So it's so guess what? They had to, for that, for that wedding, they had to return the money and they had to provide somebody else. So if you think about it now, that is two business class tickets. Yeah, go on. Um, I think it wasn't even like I think they got two one one time, and then they got, you know. So that's how many business class tickets lost, the money that they paid for this artist, the money that they had to pay to get another artist. So when I remember when I when the first time I that somebody asked me to manage them, I was like, I don't know if this is gonna, I will kidnap you. I will lock you in my basement. I don't have a basement, but I'll build one to lock you in.

SPEAKER_05 54:46

Let's be honest. Like, if you pick 10 artists, nine are badly behaved. I'm sorry. Because, and this is not I'm just I'm bringing out just from you know my ass. This is stuff that we've seen. There's stories that we could tell for days, right? Like what, like what she explained, there's so many stories. One time I was on the set of a video, and it was this artist featuring this artist, so they were shooting out they shoot music videos in bits, bits, bits, bits, and I did a quick cameo. And I was like, Ah, where is the featured artist? We don't know, we've been calling him, we've been calling him when we when they later found him, he was high in another country. When you had been told they had booked this thing, yeah, he was high as a kite in other country. There's another one where they it was a all these alcohol brands, they had paid this artist to be their brand ambassador or the face of this particular campaign. I feel like I know this you know who this person is, and they even flew in the crew because they wanted it to be they flew in the crew, the the the director was not Nigerian, nobody was Nigerian, everybody was gang, gang, gang, again, they shut out the extra scenes that they wanted to shoot. Where is this artist? They kept calling. They called him, they called his management, they called him, they called his management. He didn't show up. I think his call time was like 10 a.m. and they were ready. Not like, oh, they will have him waiting. He didn't show up until like 9 p.m. They had lost daylight. Do you know why he didn't come? He had a pimple, a small pimple. They said the director wanted to run mad because he had never seen such in his life.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Yeah, and if I was the managed at that point, I would have punched him under pimple.

SPEAKER_05 56:29

Like, there's so much, there's so much that happens.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

This is this, all of this, all of this, all of this, and I'm you know, this is probably gonna be very, very on PC or whatever, but I understand Sugnight. Yeah, I do. If you're gonna pull shenanigans like that, why am I not gonna dangle you off a bank balcony? You know what? Why am I not going to sorry?

SPEAKER_05 56:53

So the results to violence since you don't drink and you don't smoke. Well, back to you. It's not that we forgot.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

What's like we went to all these vibes? There's another question that you have another set of veteran broadcasting. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not even trying to do that, right? So, what's the so she had said that um was um a fact.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Okay, what is the biggest lie upcoming artists believe about fame and success in music?

SPEAKER_00 57:14

What's the biggest like that's um a million, a million streams or like 10 million streams, just yeah, popularity that people it means that there's a whole lot of money in your bank account.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

So a million streams, what what does that mean financially?

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Yeah, it depends. Like if your million streams come from sub-Saharan Africa, it's less than a thousand depending on the platform.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Yeah, yeah. And what about if it comes from like the UK?

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Say like it comes from Sweden or it comes from um the US, like you're looking at between like five thousand and eight thousand dollars, like in Sweden. I mean, like that's where Spotify um is from. So like that's specifically, I know. And you know, if you're talking about the US, you're looking at say 4,000, 5,000.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

So basically, a million views or a million uh multicall streams does not mean you have blown.

unknown 58:05

No.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 58:06

Quick question I was going to ask you because of your record label experience, what is the biggest dispute all the time between artists and labels? You always hear artists and labels drama. Every other day, there's some artists, you know, tweeting or posting or saying some stuff like I'm tired, I've left, one thing, one thing. What usually is the crux of the issue?

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Money to me, oh yeah, money, but more than anything else, I think that it's a misalignment or lack of alignment from day one. So, more often than not, like, I need somebody's help. I would be like oh like please do this for me. Like, if you do this for me, I'll never leave you. Like, I think that like I don't even need to give people examples. You're able to see it like visible in you know, like our industry, like, oh, like this person is excited to be signed by somebody else, you know.

SPEAKER_05 58:58

The time of their deal they start out humble, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:01

The time of their deal, you know, is expired, and they're like, you know what?

SPEAKER_05 59:04

I've arrived at this point, uh just kick rocks, like and then they now make it, and then they're like, Oh, you are cheating me, you're taking a slave contract.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

So, for instance, maybe like a label is somebody has been in the business and they're in the business to make money, and they put all of the modalities in place to make sure that this particular thing is mitigated because you cannot break like some of those contracts, you then go to like cut of public opinion to say, Oh, like this particular person is doing this to me, like doing that to me. But like you have a valid contract. If you do not have a valid contract and they're you know like cheating, you sue them.

SPEAKER_03 59:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Do you understand? So it's a case of okay, cool. Like, we're not aligned, or and before you blew up, I you saw it as me helping you do this particular thing when you blew up, you saw it as oh, you like giving more than you needed to give.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

So yeah, I think that whole court of public opin opinion has just like messed up things. Um, okay, so one more question before we go into truth or trash.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Um, so I asked you uh the biggest lie, and um, I'm gonna ask you this what is the one industry truth nobody likes to say publicly?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

One industry truth nobody likes to say publicly. I mean, everybody believes in their own genius, like everybody believes that, oh like I am this, that, or the other and I think that more than ever before, we need each other now. I I think you referenced it as saying, you know, when like the Jamaican wave was up, you know, like there was a lot of collaboration, people held each other's hands and they grew together. And I felt like there's more to there's there's more money on the table if we all came together and like we united. But more than anything else, everybody wants to, you know, um posture themselves as a genius, the person with the magic wand, the person that I'm number one number one. So, more than anything else, if we're able to say, you know what, like I respect um Amy's expertise. I would I'm going to sit down with two as well. Like, we need to just bring everything to the table, put like a portion of where I'm going to control what you're going to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

And the money, the money would the money would be crazy because I feel I feel that I get very disappointed uh when you know we hear about you know a new TIFF between the sort of big three. Yeah. And I'm just thinking, imagine if Wiz, Berner, and David and Tiwa did like a world tour. Yeah, they agree. Like a world. Not like it. I'm going to think it like they did like a world tour. Look at what Chris Brown and Usher. Because for the longest time, um, they've been pitting, you know, they've been saying, okay, Usher's like, oh, Chris Brown's now. And an Usher and Chris Brown concert makes the maddest sense. Because you're cutting across different generations, by the way. You're you're cutting across different generations. They the RB fans that are going to be there solid. So I I get disappointed because I'm like, while you're thinking about, you know, sort of me, if you guys literally said, you know what, I don't like you, I don't like you too. But let's make money. That's it.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:02

I think that we should also take a page out of their book. The tour is happening in months. They've already started promoting, they've already started doing interviews for it. They start from the Devil West Prada since last year. Two years. Oh, is it the whole article? Yeah, two years when they had not even shot a thing, they'd already started pushing, talking about it so that different people can proper for marriage.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Like you're able to get people to even like put money down to do stuff. They're able to see that this is what we're potentially going to be getting from.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Even Michael, even Michael Jackson as well. I was like, last year, I was like, I need to see this. Okay, so let us do truth or trash. So I'm gonna read out some some statements, and all you have to say is truth or trash. Uh stream explain. Uh no, no. Well, if we if we feel if we feel it's necessary, okay. Um, streaming numbers can be manipulated. True. Okay. Yeah, labels care more about image than talent. Trash. Some artists are bigger on Instagram than in real life. True. Afrobeats is entering its lazy era.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Trash.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Contraver okay. I think I think that that can't be true because there's more than ever before. There's just a whole lot going on. I felt like it just depends on where one is looking at it from. Like, and it's like a multidimensional thing where you need to just get like a full picture or like look at it like holistically to understand that that's not true.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:36

You should be for you should run for politics. I think you've done, you've held, you've held yourself down very well.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

Uh, controversy is now a music, a music marketing strategy. Be honest, to be honest. No, no, no. Like it has always been.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

Like so, when you say now, it's like I'm like, it's always been there.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:53

Music music executives know who will fail before the public does.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

True to an extent, but also trash, because one thing that I know, like that's one thing I'm willing to die on, that that an executive did one thing for person A or like it worked for person B, does not mean that they have the formula to tell you like this is what is always going to work.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:15

I cannot really predict what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Yeah, you you you really can't, and it's not even up to like a person, especially in like a system like ours. You know, you would see people put millions into an artist, it doesn't pop. And you see an artist that becomes a national obsession without a lot of budget.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Yeah, like to be honest, even on radio, there's some people that's um not in a bad way, but I'm like, ah, I don't know if you're going to make it. I don't know if you are going to make it. And they went on to do, you know, amazing things. Likewise, there are people that I've been like, oh my gosh, this person, this is it. And I'm playing music, and I'm just like, why are you guys not feeling this? What's going on? Okay, um fans fans love drama more than music.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Um, I think so. I think like I think fans like their drama. And the thing is that we just want more. It's like music, yes, there's a lot of music going on. Like, but what exactly else is there? Like, okay, what happened at Obi's house? What happened here? Like, what exactly is going on? What did this artist say about this particular person? It is always going to get blogs to say this, like this particular person posted. So it's just in your face significantly more than the music that you have to go look for.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:22

So okay. Viral songs are replacing timeless records.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

So I I think that like it's very easy for anybody to look at it and say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I know this song, this song, this song. But the thing is that what has happened is that the life cycle of um music has shortened, but it's also become nonlinear. It's not a case of oh, like this song, you can see a song called Wanted for example, release like at this particular period of time. And one day, like, you know, the artist goes to bed and they wake up like from you know 200,000 fortified listeners, and you know, in a couple months they have 30 million monthly listeners because you know this type of.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Because of a of a of a um what's the name of that what's the name of that American um RB singer? Um he had like a song that was released. Um what's it called? The Lotus. Why am I forgetting people? Give me the short guy, the short guy, the one that was with that model girl. So Miguel dropped um he dropped a s he dropped a song like a good, I want to say 10, 11 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

So I remember when I was reading up about it, um, it did well. Then there was this whole revival. Um, I think it was on, I think it kind of um started on TikTok or whatever, and the song did better like later than it did when it first, you know, when it first really was released. So I mean that's that's that's fantastic. I I would love to see more of that with Nigerian music because I feel that um where we are now, music is fantastic, but I feel like there were some amazing, amazing songs. Like the last music episode that we did, I think it was the last season, we're basically talking about the best era of music. And um, if it's okay, let's just we can just wrap up with that question. Where do you forget your part of a record label in terms of your personal, you know, like how you feel, where do you think, what do you think the best era of Nigerian music was? 2010.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:17

I was wondering we also mentioned one thing I was going to say is I saw a tweet the other day where it said, Coachalila just happened now. They were able to tell us how much it was made in terms of ticket sales, this and that and that. We don't know how much anything makes. We need more info out there. Yeah. Because if you are going to be um, yeah, fair, if you're going to be like a a um what's the word, like a brand or whatever it is that wants to buy into the movement. I don't have any information.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

That's that's why I don't have any information. Remember that time that the record labels um came to my to Nigeria and they were setting up offices. I think that's one of the biggest um issues they had. There were no there were no numbers because you know, there's um a la bar, but there was no actual data. Like, okay, how many records you as you are now, how many records have you sold in your lifetime? Yeah, you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

So that's why like I'm proud of like some of the work that you know, like new creators are doing. Like, you know, you check out like turntable charts, we talk sounds. There are people that you know they're going behind the scenes to go look at what the numbers are saying, put it out there. So the numbers are not just oh, streaming numbers that we can see on the front end. What does this particular thing mean? We create like our own you know charting system where this particular number outweighs this particular thing. So all of that, right? This data are we are we're making it available in bits, and we're going to get there, but it's just what is it now?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:37

What's what happens moving there was a popular countdown that used to go on radio once a week, and you could manipulate that countdown if you pay the right amount, and that's how we'll end this session. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

Thank you so much for stopping by. This wasn't so scary, was it?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

It wasn't, it wasn't like good. Yeah, no, no, no. Like I'm I'm I'm a fan of you guys as well. Like, I was just very, very happy to be here to have conversations with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Thank you, and best of luck with everything. If you I mean, if I have like some spare time, if you want me to manage any of your artists. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

No, don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Have you seen Wale? Have you seen him?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

No, like no, I don't, I don't know anymore. But don't worry, like, I'd probably have you, you know, come speak to like some of them and we'll just know like your core.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

Like, see, I'm a mom now, so is it's I don't know how I feel because for me with my kids, they're kids. But as an adult, why are you acting stupid?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:33

You're like impatient.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

We're like I'm very I'm like, what you did? What? Why did you tweet that? You know, so yeah, maybe. But but I mean, if the if the pay is good, I'll consider it. We'll speak about that. Thank you so much. It's up in my best of luck with everything.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

So we've got fan mail, and this person says it's very long, by the way, so I'm gonna try to cut it. Um, person says, Hi guys, my name is Shee, not my real name, LOL. Currently watching the latest episode of you guys, and I thought to share my own dilemma. So back in 2022, I believe, a boy came to my mom's office to intern. He was just about finishing from uni and he confided in my mom that he was looking to get into a serious relationship. So my mom gladly introduced him to my older sister, Timmy. I knew Timmy wouldn't like him because I know her. My mom showed us his picture. He was handsome, 5'7, Nigerian young guy, no problem. A week later, after Timmy and after they met, let's call him Solomon, uh, she said she wasn't interested. My mom was heartbroken. We moved on. Fast forward, including me, everybody genuinely forgot about him. Fast forward to January 2026, I met a young man in the gym. After weeks of eyeing me, of him eyeing me, I agreed and gave him my number in February. He's very consistent. He literally told me what he wants. He's not here to play. He believes it will this will lead to marriage and all that fun stuff. But we're obviously going to take things at my pace. We genuinely hit it off. There is a connection there. He does all the right things. He's very quiet and calm. But even from his face, you can tell. So, fast forward to March, but I mean, fast forwarding since he came to see me in my city. He moved, uh, drove down, picked me up, went to the movies, a restaurant. It was genuinely amazing. Guys, three days after was my mom's birthday. I posted her and he was like, Your mom's face looks familiar. I was like, in these big Lagos, as how I laughed and he brushed it off. But he was like, No, I know her from somewhere. Boom. He remembered he was he hooked up to the mom.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

He hooked up with the mom? No.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:33

Okay. It was he was the guy from my mom's office when he was an inter. Okay, okay, that's not true. I remembered him as the guy that was meant for my older sister. And she wrote here, I'm trying to cut the long story short, guys, but I'll keep it. You're not doing a good job. You're not doing a good job of cutting the long story short. Anyway, there's like eight pages, bro. And he said, Oh, don't worry, don't worry. On one side, I'm like, why doesn't he want to just own up to it and let it out? On another point, I'm like, maybe he doesn't want to lose me. Maybe. Who knows? I don't. For further details, I'm 23, second year in uni, financially stable, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's 28, more financially stable, emotionally intelligent, has his own car and apartment. Um, the long story, you see, the way she wrote was also the long story is that because they had introduced her, um, the guy in 2022 to her sister, and they spoke for a week and she said she did not want. Nothing happened between them. So now she's met this guy again in 2026, and he recognizes her as, oh, you're the one who I interned in your mom's office, and she feels like she's getting her sister's hand made down or her sister's reject. What are your thoughts? Look, listen, if you don't believe, there's still pages upon pages upon pages of what this girl says. So that's the summary, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:40

He's not she does she does she like him? From what she likes, she likes him. So they like each other. That should not be an issue. You know what it sounds like? It sounds as though the bigger issue is her relationship with her sister.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:53

Okay, but her father not like him.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

No, no, no, no. As in her relate, not her relate, not her sister's relationship with him, her relationship with her sister, if they've got like some competitiveness or whatever, and now she feels like, oh, the guy that you didn't want is now the girl. You know, honestly, if this guy is good to you, if he makes you feel good about yourself, if he's kind, if he's good to you, that is a minor. There, you need to you need to figure out what's going on with you know you and your sister. You cannot, um, I don't know if she's she's asking you if she should dead the relationship. You should not dead it because I thought you were gonna say like they dated. They did not they literally they they spoke for like a week. For a week, they didn't even kiss, they didn't even do anything. So I don't know. It's it sounds like there's a there's a deeper issue there. You know that. Yeah, it's not a problem, it's not a problem. Um, this could be, I mean, you don't even know. This could be your husband.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:41

Yeah, 23 years old. Yeah, so it's enjoy yourself. I'm not again, and when people say when Tool says, Oh, go have a whole phase, it's not go have a whole phase or go and sleep with everybody. It's just first of all, even if learn to know yourself, what are your hobbies? What do you have? 23 years old, you've not finished school, you're already thinking of marriage. Kilo day, kill what's chasing you now.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

You don't have a problem, girl. You do not have a problem. This is like they they did they even see in person? She said, Yeah, both that he's in another city. No, as in did this guy and her sister, did they even see in person? I said there's no problem, it's not giving a problem. It's like it's not an issue, it's not an issue, it's not a big deal. Unless it's someone that, you know, at least your mom kind of likes him already. Yeah. Do you guys think have we given rubbish advice here? There's not a problem. There's not a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're you know how something things, but sometimes I feel like you see things and you see a problem, but that thing that you're focusing on is not the problem. There is another problem. So you get what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:41

There might be some sort of sibling rivalry with her sister.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:44

I think I think it might be, I think it might be that. That could be it, but there's not, yeah. They didn't date, they didn't even, they weren't even really talking because I was like a week. So it's fine. And if the guy is good, I'm but you know what? As you like or if you want to, you know, break this thing up because oh, my sister's rejects. If you seem like a good guy and you want to end it, while I say Neil.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:06

I also find it difficult to believe that he didn't know that well, it's possible maybe he didn't meet her in 2022 or something. Because she mentioned that she saw his picture or whatever, and then she later met him in 2022.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

I don't remember pictures of people I saw yesterday. See, so you know well, yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:24

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:24

All right, so good luck with everything. Um, next time when you're writing us, try and shorten it, eh?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:29

You don't understand. The thing was like six pages, then she now used other two pages to s to really say her real name and what's happening and their real professions.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

I was like, You're only you're only allowed to write like six or seven pages when there's like some major drama. When there's this, this is like this was like half a page. But thank you so much. Keep your emails coming in. Don't feel like you know, we're not gonna criticize you, but just keep it nice and you know compact. Um, show off air at gmail.com, and of course, you can send us a DM if you want us to keep you anonymous, we can do that as well. Um, and once again, slight disclaimer if the advice we give you ends up in you going to jail, we are not liable.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:08

I would never give you advice that that would end you in.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:13

Tools is telling everybody to have a whole phase. Don't you know, take it literally.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:17

You should have t-shirts. Have you had your whole phase yet?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

I what what I mean is just have a a period in your life when you're not you know tied to somebody and you just understand yourself. That's what I mean. It is now time for Money Zone, brought to you by our good friends at Money Point. And remember, we care about you. We want to make sure your money is right, and that is why we have teamed up with Money Point. Um, they have great facilities, great advice to make sure you continue to excel as um a business owner. And I've got a very important question for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:01

What is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:01

If your business isn't online, are you invisible?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:05

Yes. In today's world, yes, you are. You have to be visible somewhere. Some people prefer Facebook because it's, you know, that's where they feel like their clientele, you know, are or is and there's some people prefer, you know, TikTok, some people prefer Instagram, whatever it is that you can. But you need to have some sort of digital presence. Digital presence, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Yeah, so this is the same thing that our good friends at Money Point think. Um, digital presence is no longer optional, it is essential. Customers expect convenience, and businesses that aren't accessible online risk losing opportunities. Um, let me give you an example. Uh, so this was during COVID. So during COVID, um, one of the biggest um fashion brands made a big, I should I say big mistake. They didn't move quickly enough. You know, Primark. So Primark, um, I where did they even start from? Anyways, don't worry about that. So Primark is like a very sort of cheap, affordable, you know, um, they've got massive stores. They do like very, very fast fashion and everything. So obviously, during COVID, we couldn't go out. And a lot of other fashion lines, a lot of big fashion lines, they had already sorted out their online, um, online um retail part. Primark, you can't buy you couldn't buy online. So for that whole period, while we were on lockdown, you could not buy Primark. You couldn't so and this is this people go to Primark for like everything. Like there's no, there's no time I've gone to a Primark store and it's not been packed. So essentially, all of those people that go to Primark, the baby would go to Primark because, oh, I've got to dinner on Thursday, or I've got to buy a t-shirt for my kid on, you know, they they lost a lot because they kind of felt like we have stores, we've got the physical stores, we've got massive physical stores, so we don't need to bother uh about online. Obviously, it you know, they changed it, but because Primark is such a massive brand, it's not something that they could do quickly.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

So they literally had to wait till you know lockdown had kind of calmed down, you know, and and by that time, people found alternatives. So if you were shopping at you know, Primark regularly and during that lockdown period you're not able to shop, what are you gonna do? You're gonna look for an alternative. So I feel like they did lose a loss of a lot of customers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:26

Um, and it's not just social media like you mentioned, it's having a website. Having a website, serving a website, yeah. So, and you need for you to have a website, obviously you're not there physically, so you have to have some sort of seamless payment uh uh system that supports digital transactions, and this is where Money Point comes in. So, um, and it's not just again, so a lot of people think, oh, are you online? Means, oh, I have a page or whatever. So, what if you or your or your or your staff are asleep? Where can your staff shop? I mean, where can your customers shop rather? They can go on your website at 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

in the morning. Absolutely, and another thing is um one of the things that I'm very happy that we did, we have a website. I'm talking about my my line, my fashion line lale, and sometimes I wake up and I see purchases from America. Yeah, I see like it's it's crazy how um I I get just random purchases from different parts of the world. We're sending stuff to Australia, I've been sending stuff to Libya, all these different things. And this is fantastic because it means people from all over the world can shop with you. And these people are not gonna be the ones that will hit you up on um like WhatsApp and DM and say, Oh, what can I do a transfer? It doesn't work like that. So having a website is extremely, extremely important for businesses today. And um, Money Point enables businesses to accept payments easily, whether online or offline, while keeping all transactions organized in one place. This ensures visibility, accessibility, and growth in an increasingly digital economy.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:01

So, in simple terms, you need to make sure that people are able to buy your goods or your services or whatever it is easily and not just when you are physically there or when you have a member of staff physically there to either answer DMs and stuff like that. And this is where Money Points um makes your business better.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:21

And don't and don't forget, you also could be losing out on international customers if literally it's just say, okay, fine, do a transfer, do a you know, yeah. So even business people.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:32

I can't remember the last time that me or anybody in my household physically went to the no, they're not called Nepa anymore. Uh Nepa office or cable network office to pay. Everything is done online. Open up the the Money Point app and do it. What I love the most is that I don't even look at it. You get cash back when you buy credit, when you pay, when you pay your bills, your DSTV bills, your um you buy your wife or you pay for your Wi-Fi or any of those things. And I don't look at it. So sometimes when I'm like, ah, let me look and see it. It literally just accumulates money for you, and so you can move it to your account and also spend. So make sure you get that money point app today.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:13

Yeah, all right. Thank you so much for watching, guys. I hope you had a fantastic time with us. Have an amazing weekend, and we'll catch you next Friday.