Who is Shaping Your Child's Heart? Ep. 352

Welcome back to the Rock Solid Families podcast! Here is a bonus episode this month, since this is the 5th Monday of July. In this episode, Linda Hutchinson is joined by Andy Dalton to wrap up the monthly theme of July - Freedom and Identity. 

Let me ask you this question: who or what is pouring into your child's heart? Is it social media? YouTube, Netflix, ESPN, Hulu, etc. You get the gist. If your child spends hours daily in front of a screen, there's a good chance your child is being poured into but not by the things of Christ. 

In this episode, Linda and Andy talk about the negative effects of too much screen time. You'll hear things like ESS (or Electronic Screen Syndrome) on top of other issues too much screen time can cause. But don't worry, this isn't just a scare tactic podcast. The team at Rock Solid Families gives out great advice for you and your family can do to help right the ship or to be proactive in your children's lives. Hint, it's all based on the word of God! 

If you like what you hear, please reach out to the team at Rock Solid Families by going to their website https://www.rocksolidfamilies.org/ or you can call their office (812) 576-7625. Thanks for listening and have a blessed day! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Rock Solid Families and Rock Solid Families Podcast. I'm Andy here with Linda, and we've got an awesome podcast for you today. It is all about technology, following our theme of identity and freedom. But if you are new here or you've never heard of our podcast, somebody shares this with you. Linda, what's the mission of Rock Solid Families?

SPEAKER_02 0:20

You know, the mission of Rock Solid Families is to strengthen our community one family at a time, working with individuals and couples and families through the God and His Word. And so God and His Word is the center and the foundation of everything we do here. So we hope that you will tune in to this really important episode that we believe is stealing the identity and freedom of our children and our families and the peace in our home. So stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

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SPEAKER_02 1:37

Welcome to the Rocksfellow Families Podcast. I am Linda Hutchison here with Andy Dalton. How are you, Andy?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I'm doing well. I'm I'm good. Mark cutting down the day is school has almost started, and our kids are like, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this before we are there.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

No, we're at the end of July, and so uh that means the end of our theme for the month. And so do you remember what our theme had been all has been all month?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yep, it has been freedom and identity, and uh who God calls us to be his identity of us, not what the world says.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yes, and so this is a bonus episode. There's five Mondays in July, and so we have the opportunity to kind of do an extra uh Rock Solid Families podcast. And this one, I really, Andy, we as we were talking about freedom and identity, I felt like we really needed to circle back around with parenting and screens.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah, this is big.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

The digital jungle that parents are navigating today, and I feel your pain. Um some people know that we have five children and we have parented in two different worlds, Andy. Oh, yeah. You know, actually, our son is your age. Yep, him and what did you have growing up in high school in grades, middle school, high school, what did you have as far as spring goes?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

So we still, I remember in middle school, it was AOL and the internet, like you couldn't have somebody call. So, like if you were on internet or all of that. Some people don't even know what that means, yeah. Um, and so it was uh MySpace was I remember getting into high school. Um so people are coming back to MySpace I heard article. Um so for those of you guys who know what MySpace is, uh we had MySpace and when I got into college, Facebook was high school, but when I got into college, that was where uh Twitter, well, what is now X was created, uh TikTok, um, Snapchat, uh all of those. I remember I had I was trying to tweet and I was not good at any of this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

But that was social media. What about a screen? What kind of screen did you have, like in middle school, high school? Did you have any screen?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

We did. We had one. This was this was at the time when the new flat screens were just coming out because it was super heavy. If you remember that with the original, like two people had to put it together. Yep. Um, so we had one screen upstairs, we did have one downstairs. Um, but growing up, we had like a small tube that had the VCR in the small like 13-inch. But that was in our like playroom area. Very, very minimal screens. I remember growing up all the time. We played outside. What about phones? Did you have a phone? When did you get a phone? I got a phone when I was a freshman in high school, and it was uh the flip phone? No, we didn't get I did not get one of the razor flip phones, which were the things um razors were like oh man. So I had the block the square, but I had Snake on my phone. That was the like if you had a game. Is that a game? Uh but it was it's freshman year. So yeah, no, not a ton of screens. Uh up until college, yeah, was the first time like I had a phone. I think college when the smartphone came out or whatever it was. I was in college, I think, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah. So, you know, um, our my oldest is 35, our youngest, my youngest is 18. And so I've seen two different worlds. There's a tenure gap in between our two oldest and our three youngest. And so I really parented in two different generations. So if you're listening to this, you probably don't remember growing up with a screen in your pocket like our kids are doing. And so maybe you don't understand the the gravity of what we're gonna talk about today because it really is stealing the identity and the freedom of our children. The algorithms are designed to capture their attention and hijack really their sense of self. And so uh, is your chit child being shaped by the creator or by a screen? That's what we're gonna be talking about today. So I hope you'll stay tuned. But before we do, yeah, we want to thank our sponsors.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, we would love to thank uh Maxwell Construction. We want to thank Casey's Outdoor Solution, and we want to thank Um Who's Your Ice House. Um, I got confused there for a second, but otherwise, which podcast plan today, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, without them and our sponsorships, like there's twofold of our thanking. One, our sponsors for allowing us to create this uh this podcast in the over 600 podcasts we've done in the eight years, which has been phenomenal. But then you guys too, you guys watching, sharing. Uh it is amazing what I think we and Saint Leon Indiana are just creating this podcast. You go out in the community more times than not. Oh, I'm keeping up with this. Wow, great job, Munlas. So for you guys, thank you for watching, for listening. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

And we hope you'll continue to feed, give us feedback. You know, let us know that you're watching, give us a five-star rating, share the show. That really helps us. Andy, I can't help but think about how we almost had a nightmare last week. Oh my gosh, it was the saddest. I mean, I was sick to my stomach. We we you this just tells you how attached and connected we are to technology, right? So my husband passed away a month ago, and and we've had his work email for you know eight years, and so and really it's been dormant for months. And so I thought I had covered all my bases when I deleted his work email, but we did not realize what we didn't have the YouTube account correctly tied to other.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

We had access to the account for other people to make sure we could edit, and but because the original owner's email was gone, everything was wiped.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Can I just tell you how scary that was? I mean, eight years of material to think it was all gone, flushed down the toilet. It it it literally made me sick. And so kudos to you, Andy. You spent hours on the phone with Google support, YouTube support, Squarespace support trying to figure out how to restore his email and get that material back. And so, by the grace of God, we actually had a friend walk in while we were in the middle of our tragedy, our trauma, and said, Have you guys stopped to pray? That's a novel thought. Why would you know? And so he stopped with us and prayed with us, and within 15 minutes, we had it restored. And so praise God, we give you God all the glory. Yes, but it really does kind of give us a perfect example of how much we are so connected and controlled by technology today, yes, and how it really can steal our joy, our freedom, our identity. And so um, I just want us to think about this for a second. Do we experience true freedom in Christ, or are we a slave to our digital world today? And 1 Corinthians 6 12 kind of reminds us of a really important concept here. We're gonna talk about this. Is Paul writing, it says, I have the right to do anything. I mean, what we're gonna say today, you can just flush down the toilet and ignore what we're saying. Doesn't say that, by the way, on this verse, but it says, but not everything is beneficial, Paul says. I have the right to do anything, but I will not be mastered by anything. So Paul was already warning us about the danger and the slavery of the digital world that we were experienced thousands of years later. And so, really, it comes down to, Andy, really what we are being mastered by, what we're being controlled by, and our identity and our freedom. And so, wow, we really just want to keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah, and again, going back to what we thought about, you know, uh growing up, and and depending upon what era and age you grew up in, which you listen to, a child's identity used to be shaped, you know, by their family, uh, their faith and community. And I heard somebody say years ago, we've traded um space and things for community. We are the most connected yet disconnected uh group of humans ever in the history. And somebody said the same rate at the same rate that um the square footage of houses increased is the same rate that the members of famous households decreased. We got bigger houses and we had less people in them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

And we're talking less to those people in our home. And so we are all in our separate rooms. I I've seen pictures of people with family gatherings and everybody sitting on a couch on a screen. And it's like so sad. And so, you know, Romans 12, 2 reminds us of really this fight we're in. It says, do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so the world's pattern is built on these algorithms and is really engineered to keep us hostage, okay? And and we as adults may go, oh yeah, I can get rid of it, I can I can put it down, but are we teaching our children to do that? And that's really hard because our kids' minds are really being um uh rewired with the truth of what the world says, the patterns of the world instead of God's truth. And that's what we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yep, absolutely. And so we first want to make sure we understand the science behind the struggle. There's uh I've done multiple things where when we create narrow pathways by doing something over and over again, it isn't a matter of you just gotta try harder to stop eating that sugary stuff. You just gotta try harder to not look at Facebook and TikTok for that long. It's willpower. And I don't I don't agree with that, right? And even from some of the experts, right? When we say rewiring, um, Jonathan Hyatt was the one who had wrote and written the book, The Anxious Generation, and all of the research that pile into that. Yes, one of the resources we give all the time to clients we see. But he highlights social platforms will hijack, hijack, sorry, natural childhood social learning, and it'll create different neural pathways um within our brains that that it's very easy for us to automatically go to this, right? You're waiting in line at the doctor's office, you're waiting in line somewhere, you're just you have a couple minutes. What is so easy to do, so easy to pick this up and just to spend just a couple of minutes. Yep. Every couple of minutes I have. Um, and so they even one of the quotes that we want to share from you from this book is Gen Z became the first generation in history to go through puberty with a portal in their pockets that called them away from people nearby instead of saying, Hey, how are you today? And meeting new people and being able to talk face to face with people. Uh, I've noticed this when I spent you know 10 years teaching in the middle school. Um, the best and most quiet days we had, if kids wanted to earn a reward, they wanted a phone during lunch and they didn't talk. And they and they stared at their screens and they they they they lost the ability to hold conversations very well because they didn't do it very often. And so again, this Gen Z, the first generation, because they weren't talking to people nearby, they were pulled into this alternative universe that was exciting, addictive, unstable, and unstable and unsuitable for children. And those neuropathways are hard to break.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yep, absolutely. You know, so Jonathan Hyatt is one of our favorite resources when it comes to this topic. Another one that I've used a lot is by a woman by the name of Dr. Victoria Dunkley. She has written a book called Reset Your Child's Brain. And it's really about the chronic screen syndrome, the stimulation, the overload of our nervous system pulling kids into the state of constant chronic fight or flight. And so what we're seeing today is a higher level of depression, anxiety, ODD, OCD, ADHD, and all of these labels, all of these letters behind our kids' diagnosis, when honestly, it could be the screen. And so she highly recommends, and she actually gives a step-by-step almost reset button, a three to four week where you literally help a child reset. And she is quoted in saying, repeated screen stimulation alters neurochemical functioning, creating patterns that mimic ADHD and mood disorders, even when the root cause is purely environmental. So what if that medication you have your child on, or that therapist you have that child see, or you know, the fact that they've gotten expelled or suspended from school, what if it was based on their screen? Yeah. And you know, I'm not using it as an excuse, but I'm helping you to see that there could be a solution that is a much different one than what you're trying right now.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah. The screens are literally stealing your children's ability to think clearly and to regulate their emotions. Yeah. Talk taking talking about taking away their freedom and identity in Christ. There's a, and we laugh at some of this stuff. Um, uh, you know, Alabama football, if you guys are young football players, there was a uh they lost a game they shouldn't have, uh, and they're seeing this guy's crashing out, right? Losing his mind. Well, I know as I coached high school football for for years and college football, they're watching these college players, and these kids don't know how to regulate their emotions. And then I go on Friday night to a local high school football game, and I'm seeing these kids throwing their helmets and losing their emotions, and it's this trickle effect of what they see and they're mimicking and their patterns and behaviors. And so when they are seeing this, they're modeling this behavior. Yeah, there's a you know, I think about when we're talking about this, whoever's listening, you're in a couple of different stages, right? My kids are older, I'm not worried about it. But maybe I've got grandkids. Or my kids are young, like my kids, I haven't don't have a screen yet, but we are proactively planning what they look like. Or, like you had said, we were raising in the middle of it, or it's too late. Like whatever the season is uh is in life for your kids, you're gonna have to go and take the priority for your family and what it wants to look like.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, our prefrontal cortex is not fully developed till our mid-20s. And so think about this. You and I both grew up with not having that screen in front of us. So it didn't rewire the brain like it is to a child. I just taught a class this weekend and and I asked parents about the screens that their children have, and some of them had young kids three, four years old, and they're emitting, like when they're in a car, when they're in the store, they'll hand them the phone and they'll let the child play. And so we don't realize that the cortisol levels, the dopamine levels, the hits those kids are getting constantly is really literally rewiring the brain, and it's it's re it's replacing their ability, their freedom to regulate emotions with this inability, this state of fight or flight that they're in. And so, you know, in the digital world, identity is performing. You are what you post, you are how people react and respond to you versus God says your identity is received, you're created in God's image, you are loved unconditionally, you're fearfully and wonderfully made, the Bible says. So there's this difference we in identity and freedom we get based on the digital world of slavery in the screen world versus what God in His Word says.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah. And then you go to value, right? Value in the digital world and what we're seeing from you know, Instagram and YouTube. You know, my kids are young enough that they understand YouTube, these content creators who are making millions of dollars. You know what I mean? People I've seen want to be photographers or YouTubers and all these digital things, right? But their only uh value is dependent upon views, likes, follows, social standings. And so they're they're depending upon this value system of what others think of them, where, and that's where these ebbs and flows of these super highs and super lows and this inconsistency of what they think the world values them as. But when we look at God's word, the truth that we want to stand upon in Psalm 139, 14, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. He knit us together in our mother's womb. And so our value isn't determined upon these social standings and views or whatever the case is.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Now, I tell the story all the time when I'm teaching classes on technology. When my daughter turned 13, we're gonna talk about kind of our protocols and our guidelines. Um, we started having a conversation about smartphones, and she got her first smartphone. But I'll never forget how that changed the dynamic of our relationship and who she went to for validation and value. All of a sudden, I took her to go get school shopping right after her 13th birthday when she had the phone in her hand. And instead of coming out and showing me the clothes and wanting my approval, she literally didn't come out of the dressing room, Andy. Guess why? She was taking pictures. She was taking pictures and she was sending them to her friends and she wanted validation and she wanted to know she was valued in their approval versus mine. And again, my approval is not as like God's either. God loves her unconditionally, God doesn't care what she wears. But the fact is that she was looking for that external approval, and that's what happens in our digital world, and we get tied to it, we get stuck by it. And so our belonging becomes conditional. Our belonging becomes this online trend to be left or to be left out, and all of a sudden we feel like we're this insecure needing and validate, wanting this validation, where God has told us our belonging is secure, that we are adopted into God's family. It's nothing that we say or do. Yeah, it says it's a free gift. And so that's where we're seeing this lack of freedom come in the digital world.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

You need to think back to that belonging to and social standing, and like you see these people with these different types of cars, really nice cars, really nice shoes, uh, you know, sneaker heads is a really popular thing for just you know, kids, boys, especially.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Okay, sneaker heads, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Like if you certain types of shoes. Okay, right, and like I do have these air jordans or these different types of like whatever, and and and anyways, but going back to belonging, like all these trends, and right now it is all online. And so when we see about this belonging or this pleasing, and are we doing what other people are doing? It it is so it changes like the sifting of sand, right? And and this is this is such a cool scripture, uh, and it is awesome how God's word will speak truth. And it says in Galatians chapter one, am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. And so when we look online and you see these changes of culture and society and fashion, right? And sneakerheads and what these kids wear. I've seen kids on Friday night as I was coaching who cared more about what they were wearing than how they played. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

But mom and dad, it's not just about the child and their lack of identity or lack of freedom. It's about us as parents. And so this verse that you just read, Andy, speaks to us as parents. Am I gonna try to be my child's best friend? Am I gonna be the cool parent? Do I want not other people to think less of me because I don't buy them the newest iPhone or let them have social media? And so we really as parents have to think through this: like, what is God calling me to do? How do I love my child and help my child find their identity in Christ and find that true freedom that God's word offers us? So that's what we're gonna be talking about when we come back from this commercial break. So stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

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SPEAKER_02 21:28

All right, we're back, and I hope that you love that little teaser that we left you with during our commercial break because we really want to get practical. We want to help you as parents. We're not just sitting here and just preaching to you or or um condemning you because we're guilty. You know, we are guilty of kind of doom scrolling and getting kind of lost in that. But man, and this is honestly Merle used to say this all the time that's sometimes it's stepping on our toes, and we really don't want to make changes. So therefore, we're gonna turn this off because. You're gonna make me change. And we are. We're gonna ask you to model for your kids what healthy looks like. So we wanna become technoskeptics, okay? We wanna establish some norms in your home with your whole family, including you, that everyone can model and kind of emulate instead of drinking the Kool-Aid that a lot of people are. Because Jonathan Hyatt in his in his book, Anxious Generation, and I'm telling you, please do not believe this because Merle or Linda and Andy say so. I want you to listen to the researchers, listen to the people who have done years and years of research. Yes. Our kids have begun been the guinea pigs of this technology generation and the screen generation. And we're seeing the after effects of it already.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

We talked about that too in the uh if you did a podcast. Um we we've listened to multiple things with Jonathan Hayek, but you did a podcast like go back in the days when cigarettes first came out. There were commercials advertising for them until it was like, oh, yeah, this can kill you, this can cause cancer. Back up, back up, back up, back up, back up. Yeah. Oh, look at all of these different AI bots that they're creating because we have social um uh isolation. And so because we crave the need, oh well, let's meet that need with AI, let's meet that need with more screens versus what the real actual need can be and what God tells us. So when we say this, we agreed, like I love the technoskeptics. Uh, was that a word you created? That was Jonathan Riot's word.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

That's right. I listened to him on a TED talk not too long ago, and uh he just encouraged us as parents to be technoskeptics to kind of filter everything that's offered as something new and exciting through the lens of God and his word and healthy.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

And so I'm asking mom and dad you to take out a piece of paper. I'm not thinking there's some kids watching this because I don't think they want to really hear this. But if you're a child or a young adult, write this down as well. If you don't have kids, maybe you know, you as a young adult are experiencing some of these anxieties and lack of identity and freedom. So write these down because these are very practical steps that we can give and do that will really help us experience that freedom in Christ.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

So, what's the first one, Andy? First one's gonna be no smartphones before high school, right? You can get a phone, basic phone, you can get a watch. Um, watches are really great for keeping track. Like, you know, we thought I taught about that with our oldest, our oldest is nine years old. She wants a watch to roam the neighborhood. We put trust in her, but we want to know where she's at. We want to keep track of her and monitor her, right? And so being able to get a watch that just tells us, hey, this is where she's at, we can keep track of her. But that doesn't, again, she's not going to stare at a screen doom scrolling on her watch. That's not the kind of watch we would give her. Plus, I don't think they have those available yet.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, they do. Uh yeah. Apple watches. You can do anything on them.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

One of the things that we've decided too for our kids, and we've told our kids this before, they they know they're not getting phones until they are in eighth grade or high school. They're not, they're just not getting it. There's not good, there's not a need for it, even with after-school curricular activities. We're going to be involved with them enough to where like wheels say on top of it. They just they just don't need it. So we're, and then there's uh uh take the wait until eighth pledge. It's like wait until eighth or whatever the online waituntileighth.org.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

And and I have been promoting this for years. It is not a faith-based organization, but it has done a ton of research on why we're saying this age, okay? It's transitioning out of that season of leadership into that season of mentoring, where you do give your children a little bit more rope, a little bit more opportunity of freedom, right? But with freedom comes responsibility. I want you to write that down because we're not saying that boom, eighth grade, and everybody gets a phone. I'm saying at the eighth grade level, at that age, all right, you start to have the conversation. You start to evaluate have they built trust with you? Have they been responsible with the freedoms you have given them to be able to take that next step of something such a big responsibility as having a smartphone? So we're saying, please, please. Um, when Merle, I mean, he he and I used to have a ton of podcasts over the eight years on this, and he would just reel at the elementary age students that they had to take away their device to do the eyes testing because there's a second grader, third grader with an Apple Watch or an Apple phone, and it's like, wow, those kids are not capable, emotionally ready to handle what's coming across that screen. And parents are just thinking, well, everybody's getting one. I don't want my kid to be left out. That's the big thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And so remember about that Galatians 1 scripture. We're pleasing humans. Yeah, I want to say something too to that. You said healthy before this, and it reminded me I was in college and my degree is in exercise science. And I remember there was a professor whom I loved said, if you look at healthy in terms of our country, our country is probably one of the least unhealthy countries there are in the world. He said, So you want to be what's deemed healthy and the least unhealthiest country in the world? Yeah. Oh, we're healthy because we put blocks on our phones, but our kids only have fifth grade. Oh, we're healthy because they don't have what these people have, so we're better than that. Right? We're not saying we're following God's command of like, okay, are we giving them freedom and identity in Christ or in what the world does? And so put that in your head. Like when you say healthy, what does that mean to you? Yeah. Because some people will follow some of the advice, but but they don't want to go that extreme. I don't want to be the extreme parent. Like, that's fine. I don't want to miss out on my kids only time that I have to pour into them and make sure I set them with their right to identity when they leave the home and then I'm done parenting.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Which is why our next recommendation is no social media until they're 16. This is really, really hard because, man, the minute they get that phone, they want the tic-tac reels, right? They want the Snapchat conversations. And so we're just asking you to please, please go slow, let go slow. Try the smartphone, put put limits and filters on them. Do not allow them. Make sure that all of their apps are being approved by you so that they don't sneak those things. Although my son found a way, he went through YouTube actually to go and get some of these apps that were unavailable. So guess what? He lost YouTube because if he could go and backdoor, then we're not gonna have it at all. Yes. And so we actually ended up having to get a gab phone for our son because he did not show us that responsibility with what he was given, where our daughter did. And so it's not a it's not a given. And by the way, mom and dad, it's not a right, it's a privilege. Absolutely. Okay, it's a privilege that they earn, not a right that they deserve. That is so important. You need to write that down, okay? It is not a right they deserve, and it's not their phone, okay? It is your phone, yes, and you have access to it 24-7. You have access to their password. It's it sleeps in their room, your room, not theirs.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

There's a lot of things that we've got to put on that to protect them.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Absolutely, yeah. And to go back with that too, I'm looking at this. When we say no social media before age 16, if you think about when the kid is then going to be able to decide for themselves, like 18, 21, whatever it is, that's not a long time, guys. Like two years, and then if they choose to do it because they're old enough and they're adults and they move out, then that's on them. But that is such a short period of time. Like, listen, while you're underneath my home, let me give you the best advice advice that I can. Based upon all of the science and research is done. TikTok is not good for the brain. Yeah. Done. Don't put, don't, don't give them TikTok, right? And so if they choose to and they get older, that's fine. But that is not a long time. Just stand firm on what you know is solid, strong advice for this short period of time. I know they're not gonna like it, they're not gonna love it. We've already had this talk with our friends. Our kids will never have Snapchat. That is the number one way right now in high school that I know of. I've met with high school kids. I used to, the co-teacher that I taught with for nine years, um, his niece and nephews, the son is now a high schooler. I know that high schoolers communicate via Snapchat very quickly. Our kids are gonna miss out on it. I've already told them, I've already given them a fair warning because I've seen so many ramifications. But, anyways, so going back to moral recommendations, you guys are writing these down. Phone-free zones and times. What does this mean? That means when we go down at the dinner table, there is a basket that we have, and everybody puts their phone in the basket. This was even back when I was dating in high school. I had a girl that I could not, she would not text me back during a certain time because her parents would not allow her to have her phone during dinner. And I used to be like, oh, that's so snobby, that's ridiculous. That and then now as I get older, I'm like, we're doing the same thing. Yeah. And so you could have bedrooms, you said this before, bedrooms are for sleeping. And even if you're like, oh, my kid, they're quiet, that TV is not fun. You know how many kids I've met with that have told me they're lying and sneaking behind their parents' back that their TVs are on when they say they're in bed, their phones are on when they say they're in bed, and they're staying up till two o'clock in the morning because their friends are.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

So why are you putting that temptation in their room while you're sleeping? So take it out, put it in a common area, have them charge the phones in your room where you have the password, and you let them know we will be going through it. It's not a secret, it's not hiding behind your back. We will go through it because they will do things differently if they know you're going through it. Okay. And kitchen tables are for connection, not screens. And so, Andy, when they turn 13 and you're talking about the cell phone and giving them that freedom, here's what we want. We want them to continue to learn how to build human connections face to face with people, sitting in the cafeteria table, right? Sitting at the dinner table, being in a car with the friends on the way home from practice. If everybody's allowed to be sitting on a phone, another screen-free area is the car. You know, it's one of the number one counseling areas for you as a parent, and also an opportunity for you to listen to their conversations with friends. And if everybody's allowed to be on a phone, you miss it.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yes, absolutely. So, and another thing, too, that write down for you guys prioritizing people and books and education versus devices, right? Replacing screen time with world world autonomy and play. And that, I don't know if it was in that book, uh, Angster Generation or so many things we've listened to, Jonathan Hyatt. Yeah. But kids will learn how to play, how to solve uh problems, conflict resolution way more effectively by themselves than if we interject and step in. And so allowing them these times, like take them, take them somewhere, let them go outside, let them go in the woods and figure these things out. Yes, they might get poison eye and be like, okay, that's fine. But I'll take that over the every single time we say no to something, the oh whininess and pouting because they can't control and regulate their emotions.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

And learn how to be bored. You know, if every time your child is bored, whether it be in a car, whether it be in a line, whether it be in a waiting room, whether it be at a restaurant, if you hand them a phone, you blow the chance, the opportunity to teach them how to play tic-tac-toe, how to, you know, look outside and you know, count colors or whatever it is. And so I will say my oldest son and his wife do this so amazingly. They have one TV in the house that they share and watch, usually the Tour de France or the World Cup. Exactly. They would watch it co-viewing together. Yeah, yeah. But otherwise, there was no tablets or screens. Those kids are reading books, they are out in their mud kitchen, they are making a fort out in the woods, they're climbing trees, they are doing crafts, they are making puzzles. I mean, when I was over there, uh I just got back from visiting them in Charleston, and like when it was a rainy day, so we were not watching things. They were not on a screen. We were building a puzzle or playing a game. And that's because they've started early, right? And it's consistent. Those kids know not to even ask. Yes. Because the answer is gonna be no.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah. Now go back to we said this before, you're going to be in a certain season of life with your family, right? Some of them are younger, like my kids, and we're doing the same thing. They love reading. Right now, it is dogman books and like rings of fire or some sort of book, whatever. They do, they do, they love these books, right? And so, but some of you maybe, or your kids are already in high school and you're like, Well, I passed, I missed the boat. And again, you've read that you've already talked about this, right? If you're too if you're thinking you're too late, no, right? The cow's already out of the barn, Linda. Uh, I'm I've missed this boat, Andy. My house is already on fire, constant turmoil by technology. I just give in because I'm sick of the fighting. And so here's what we would say. Again, go back to what uh Dr. Victoria uh Dunkley, is that right? Dunkley was saying, a three to four complete screen fast. And I don't even know if you are on screens to see these. This is like an uptick. Fasting has been like this new, really popular thing. Water fast, uh, different types of fasting is going on. And so we'd say in that book, Reset Your Child's Brain, a four-week plan to end meltdowns can help raise grades, boost, boost your social skills by reversing the effects of the electronic screen time. Right now, let me say this. Uh, I did landscaping for years, right? And if you're gonna go put in a new flower bed, you're gonna tear up the yard. It's going to look worse before it looks better.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And so if you do this, it's going to get worse.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

And they're not gonna like it. No. They're gonna actually be like, who are you talking to? What book did you read? You know, I I don't like this new rule, I don't like this new mom. And so it is, it's really hard, but the long run benefits are definitely worth the temporary pain. Okay. And you want to help your child experience that freedom. Because, you know, I I remember our daughter went to camp as a 16-year-old. And so at this point, she had a smartphone and social media. And I'm telling you, she was scared to death to go because she was gonna lose her streaks. And and that's when I realized, wow, and and she honestly started to learn herself like, wow, I am I am addicted. This has gotten out of hand. I can't go a week without my phone and my with streaks. And so we have got to help our kids see that. We used to have a screen time limit on our teenager where she could not go on over three hours. And if she went over three hours, then she lost it the next day. If she reset it, which she used to do, oh, just reset, she'd lose it because she reset that. And so it really helped her to help self-regulate. We had regulations and rules to help her self-regulate. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yes. And and again, this is a four weeks might be a long time. You're gonna have the first couple of weeks just be really hard. Really hard. Really hard. Yeah, but again, long-term planning, if you talk about one of the ways that you can allow your kids to be the most successful adults, is being able to have delayed gratification. So being able to long-term plan, this is like one of the number one things for most successful kids. Yep. Can I create delayed gratification to my children? You've got to model this, which is the next thing. Model what you preach, and we've got to set these like, all right, four weeks we're doing this, guys. I don't care how bad it gets. And then when you come back after that fast, are you gonna come back and do just go back, cart blanch? Here you go, have whatever you want. No, or are you gonna set some boundaries up to these screen limits and these screen free times?

SPEAKER_02 37:04

And so Andy's right, you've got to model it. You gotta teach your kids what those face-to-face interactions look like. You got to prioritize those family connections, right? And those that outdoor play, being bored and letting them know, like, hey, I know you're bored. I know, you know, the summer's coming to an end, and you just want to sit on a screen or play video games all day. We're not. We're gonna turn it off and we're gonna go outside. I'll never forget when COVID hit, and our three kids, whoo, it was rough, Andy, because they did the e-learning, right? And so here and I, my husband and I are trying to work, and our kids are home all day, but they were old enough to be home alone. But it was so hard to say the TV doesn't go on. We did not let the TV go on until 8 p.m. when we were all home and dinner was done, and we would sit down together to watch a show instead of them sitting all day on a screen. And so it was really interesting, though, what they chose to do. They found themselves, you know, building the fort out in the woods and and making chalk drawings on the driveway, and you know, uh whittling sticks, you know, things that they just found themselves doing because they had boredom.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yes. The last thing we want you guys to write down here, and uh and we'll review some of the stuff too, but why are we doing this? Uh go back to the beginning, you know, and the title of all this is Who is Shaping Your Child's Heart? Direct the heart, don't just rule the behavior. And so when boundaries cause meltdowns, as we said, like, no, you're not doing this, and they start melting down, we're gonna lean, we're not just getting mad at them, you're gonna obey me and you're gonna do what I say because I'm the one who's making the rules. It's like, I love you too much to let a device steal your peace, your sleep, your identity, your value, where you feel fit into. And and and understand that they're crying out is a way that you can respond appropriately to say, listen, I love you. Um, I know this is hard, I know this might be difficult, and lean into that, right? Don't just say, I want behavior because I want obedience. Yeah. Like let's let's dive into our kids' heart.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Um, I want to share a story with you. Um, when our daughter got her phone, um, she was also entering high school, and so we had a volleyball game, and after the volleyball game, all the girls went to Skyline together. And the girls sat at a table and the adults sat at the table, and I looked over, and all of the girls were not talking because they were all snapping each other. And my daughter had a phone, but she did not have social media, and so just like you said, that's how they communicate, right? Yep, yep. And so, and she also knew that I didn't want her phone to be out in the dinner table because that was another rule of ours. But those girls just kind of went on their own world, and she came home that night crying, and she said, No one talked. And she realized then, like, I don't want to do that. I don't, she she one was mad at me because she didn't have Snapchat and she wanted to be in the mix, right? But then the more we talked about it, I I I acknowledged, like, I know that was hard. I looked over and I saw you and I felt for you. Yeah, but what did you learn through that? And she says, I don't want to sit across from a table and not talk to anybody. She was learning how to have human face-to-face conversation and how to sit through the boredom of waiting for her food, which at Skyline doesn't take you very long. But the girls were like in their own world, and I was sad for that. Yes. That that wasn't something the parents had encouraged that they would put their phones down and be with people. And so, man, as parents, it's hard. You see your kids hurting, you see your kids left out, like you said, right? You're swimming upstream in a digital world, but I'm just telling you, it's a trap, it's quicksand, and it will not lead to peace and joy and freedom and identity for our kids.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

No, it will not, yeah. So we know reviewing that very quickly, being technoskeptics, protecting your child's brain, detox if you are beyond that boat, modeling what you preach, direct the heart, all of these different things. And if you missed one of these, go back and listen to this or reach out to us, right? We are not perfect by any means, and we've said this multiple times. We're living through live through it, living through it, trying to figure out and balance this. I remember my daughter came in to wake us up one time one morning, and uh, we had said, like, we're gonna start charging our phones downstairs. And my phone is sitting there. Hey dad, I thought you said you're gonna charge your phones down the kitchen. Hello. I I I welcomed that. Like, yeah, you're right. I'm not perfect. I messed up. Yeah, but we are trying to do the best to allow our kids to grow up the best that they can, to be the most successful they can, and to know their value in their heart. And so as we give you with some final, final encouragements here, if we wrap this up, right? 2 Corinthians chapter 3, verse 17. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Amen. And I pray that the Spirit would flow through your family and your home, and that it would be a beacon of light that other people would see. It would be rest for you guys' family. And even if it's hard right now, like where are we heading as a family? What direction, if we have to go through some sort of a detox or whatever, because we want freedom and identity in Christ.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Yeah. Again, I know this show steps on toes. I get it. But I'm asking you to challenge you to leave this podcast and to think about one bold move that you and your family can do this week. Okay. Obviously, talk to your spouse because you want to be on the same page. It is really hard when one spouse is more addicted than the other and you're kind of calling them out. And so, you know, think about that, whether it be charging the phones in another room, whether it be putting the phones down at a meal or in a car, whether it be playing a game or cards instead of just, you know, just sitting in front of a screen as a family. Because, you know, Proverbs 423 says, above all else, guard your heart, because everything you do flows from it. And so we're just asking you as a family, please guard your hearts and the hearts of your children. You have a responsibility. You know, you might say, oh, phones don't hurt. I mean, I it's not a big deal. But you're not a child, and your brain is not undeveloped like theirs is. And it's our responsibility to help guard their hearts and minds in Christ Jesus so that they can experience true freedom and identity in Christ. So please, we're plugged, we're just employing you to help with that.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, absolutely. And as we close, uh, a couple of things we want to mention. One, we want to thank our sponsors again, Who's Your Ice House, Maxwell Construction, and Casey's outdoor solution. But also for you guys, you know, as you guys are listening to this and more challenging, and if you've got questions or how did you do this so well, or how are you walking through this, Andy? We would love for you guys to reach out. Shoot us an email, uh, Andy at rocksolidfames.org, Linda at rocksolidfames.org. You can give our office a call, 812-576-7625. And how can we support you? We've got these resources. The Anxious Generation is a good book. We've got more than just that. And so please, if you guys are going through this, that's the goal. We live in the same community together. How can we strengthen it? And it's by helping each other, carrying each other's burdens.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

And also surrounding yourself with like-minded people. You know, um, that's one thing you're learning, Andy, is that you're gonna surround yourself with other families who are gonna fight for the same thing. So if we can help you with that, please reach out. So thank you so much for listening to the Rock Solid Families Podcast: Building a Stronger Community, one family at a time. Make it a great day.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

When it comes to building, you need a name you can trust. You need Maxwell Construction. Maxwell Construction delivers quality. Whether you're looking for a new commercial space for your business or a dream residential home for your family. They build with integrity, crafting structures that stand the test of time. We want to extend a sincere thank you to Maxwell Construction for being a vital sponsor of the Rock Solid Families Podcast. Their commitment helps us build stronger families in our community. For your next commercial or residential project, choose the proven quality of Maxwell Construction. Find them online or give them a call today. That's Maxwell Construction. Building your future one quality structure at a time.