{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":9.772,"endTime":17.023,"body":"Season 4 Episode 34 of the Practical 365 Podcast with me, Steve Goodman and Paul"},{"startTime":9.772,"endTime":17.023,"body":"Rovershaw."},{"startTime":17.023,"endTime":18.554,"body":"Hi Paul, how are you?"},{"startTime":18.713,"endTime":22.028,"body":"Hello from Copenhagen Steve I'm fine thanks how are you?"},{"startTime":22.658,"endTime":24.008,"body":"I am good."},{"startTime":24.008,"endTime":27.015,"body":"I think it's colder where I am than it where you are."},{"startTime":27.196,"endTime":28.761,"body":"Without the witch or Fanta."},{"startTime":28.761,"endTime":32.213,"body":"I mean, that's entirely possible, but it's dark for both of us, which is rare."},{"startTime":32.213,"endTime":34.94,"body":"Usually one or the other of us will be in darkness."},{"startTime":35.246,"endTime":36.237,"body":"I know, I know."},{"startTime":36.237,"endTime":42.798,"body":"So, well I was going say happy new year before we into dark metaphors."},{"startTime":46.879,"endTime":56.906,"body":"If you know Copenhagen then you'll probably be envious of Paul, except the fact it's the"},{"startTime":46.879,"endTime":56.906,"body":"evening and he's still working, but out his window he tells me is the lovely canals where"},{"startTime":56.906,"endTime":60.83,"body":"on a summer's day you would go out to get an ice cream or perhaps go out for a lovely"},{"startTime":60.83,"endTime":63.101,"body":"steak or whatever food you would like."},{"startTime":63.109,"endTime":73.136,"body":"Yes, in fact, the neighborhood where I am, I'm about a six or seven minute walk from the"},{"startTime":63.109,"endTime":73.136,"body":"district known as New Haven, which is an iconic street that has all the Dutch looking"},{"startTime":73.136,"endTime":79.48,"body":"colored houses because it was originally designed by Dutch architects as was this canal"},{"startTime":73.136,"endTime":79.48,"body":"system in Copenhagen."},{"startTime":80.07,"endTime":81.643,"body":"That makes so much sense."},{"startTime":81.643,"endTime":83.868,"body":"You know, I've never thought to look up or ask."},{"startTime":83.868,"endTime":85.335,"body":"It is a lovely place that you're in though."},{"startTime":85.335,"endTime":87.013,"body":"It's your second home, I think."},{"startTime":87.12,"endTime":87.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":87.49,"endTime":89.141,"body":"Maybe, maybe a three minute walk from here."},{"startTime":89.141,"endTime":95.223,"body":"There's a delightful ice cream place and then almost right across the street from it is a"},{"startTime":89.141,"endTime":95.223,"body":"craft beer bar on a boat."},{"startTime":95.223,"endTime":98.924,"body":"So yes, in the summer, this is a perfect place to be right now."},{"startTime":101.004,"endTime":102.405,"body":"It's almost on the corner."},{"startTime":102.405,"endTime":102.552,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":102.552,"endTime":103.985,"body":"It's called isobar."},{"startTime":105.226,"endTime":106.626,"body":"You probably have."},{"startTime":107.106,"endTime":110.767,"body":"I'm not, I'm not sure it's a landmark exactly, but I think it's pretty well known."},{"startTime":110.767,"endTime":111.647,"body":"They're ice cream."},{"startTime":111.647,"endTime":112.268,"body":"Boy, it's good."},{"startTime":112.268,"endTime":113.288,"body":"I wish I had some right now."},{"startTime":113.288,"endTime":114.188,"body":"In fact,"},{"startTime":114.301,"endTime":114.612,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":114.612,"endTime":117.621,"body":"And if you're in sunnier place in the world, then go enjoy some ice cream."},{"startTime":117.621,"endTime":120.939,"body":"Actually, before we start the podcast, my daughter had some ice cream."},{"startTime":121.305,"endTime":124.838,"body":"That must have been what was making me subconsciously think about it."},{"startTime":124.897,"endTime":130.541,"body":"Yes, I was like, yes, it's just over there, Don't call me darling."},{"startTime":130.541,"endTime":132.464,"body":"Anyway, I digress."},{"startTime":133.625,"endTime":138.871,"body":"The first podcast of the new year, is and we've been saying a few times on the podcast."},{"startTime":138.871,"endTime":143.367,"body":"Well, we predict all sorts of things, because I suppose if you predict everything, you're"},{"startTime":138.871,"endTime":143.367,"body":"bound to get something right."},{"startTime":143.367,"endTime":144.247,"body":"But"},{"startTime":144.352,"endTime":153.232,"body":"The cost of Microsoft serving Copilot may well be reduced over time."},{"startTime":154.152,"endTime":170.144,"body":"It certainly seems that Microsoft are feeling very generous or they're feeling very eager"},{"startTime":154.152,"endTime":170.144,"body":"to get everybody's hands on Copilot in Microsoft 365 because Copilot chat."},{"startTime":170.144,"endTime":173.084,"body":"is now part of Microsoft 365."},{"startTime":173.284,"endTime":178.384,"body":"I hate to say free because you've still got to buy it."},{"startTime":178.521,"endTime":179.896,"body":"maybe is a better way to put it."},{"startTime":179.896,"endTime":182.157,"body":"What do think of this port?"},{"startTime":183.117,"endTime":188.897,"body":"You could look at it as what was the enterprise Bing chat."},{"startTime":189.477,"endTime":195.428,"body":"It had a lot of similarities with copilot chat for access to your Microsoft 365 data."},{"startTime":195.428,"endTime":197.668,"body":"Is this as big as it sounds?"},{"startTime":197.957,"endTime":201.468,"body":"You know, it's medium big, I think I would say."},{"startTime":201.468,"endTime":210.982,"body":"we've had, just from a technical standpoint, we've had the ability to do chat-based"},{"startTime":201.468,"endTime":210.982,"body":"reasoning that's grounded in tenant data."},{"startTime":210.982,"endTime":212.443,"body":"We've had that for a while."},{"startTime":213.223,"endTime":224.229,"body":"Part of what's new about this is it doesn't require you to have a copilot license, but it"},{"startTime":213.223,"endTime":224.229,"body":"does allow you to use agents, which is a huge focus for Microsoft right now."},{"startTime":224.229,"endTime":225.245,"body":"Maybe..."},{"startTime":225.245,"endTime":235.854,"body":"not coincidentally, you can use agents that are provisioned under a pay as you go plan so"},{"startTime":225.245,"endTime":235.854,"body":"that the more your users use those agents, the more consumption that drives and the more"},{"startTime":235.854,"endTime":237.295,"body":"money Microsoft gets."},{"startTime":237.295,"endTime":244.951,"body":"So I'm not saying that having this tool be available at no extra cost is related to that,"},{"startTime":237.295,"endTime":244.951,"body":"but I'm not saying it's not."},{"startTime":245.606,"endTime":255.605,"body":"Well, it sounds very much like AI companies and Microsoft and Emeta and so on would like"},{"startTime":245.606,"endTime":255.605,"body":"this to be the year of agents."},{"startTime":255.605,"endTime":260.317,"body":"And certainly, there's a big ask there, isn't it?"},{"startTime":260.317,"endTime":267.314,"body":"Because if an agent is going to be particularly useful, what bar is it going to have to"},{"startTime":260.317,"endTime":267.314,"body":"meet to make it valuable enough?"},{"startTime":267.314,"endTime":269.311,"body":"But it seems like a really good addition."},{"startTime":270.041,"endTime":277.476,"body":"by Microsoft into getting people to be able to consume in a pay as you go way agents."},{"startTime":277.476,"endTime":279.857,"body":"Will that be successful?"},{"startTime":279.857,"endTime":282.377,"body":"You I don't know."},{"startTime":282.518,"endTime":288.591,"body":"You know, we didn't see that with syntax, for example, when it moved to pay as you go"},{"startTime":282.518,"endTime":288.591,"body":"model, at least certainly not overnight."},{"startTime":288.591,"endTime":298.897,"body":"Yeah, you know, it was interesting because if you look at syntax, just kind of as a broad"},{"startTime":288.591,"endTime":298.897,"body":"technology portfolio, I think, it's a pretty good example of Microsoft trying to take some"},{"startTime":298.897,"endTime":307.621,"body":"things that were adjacent to each other and put them together in a unified brand and then"},{"startTime":298.897,"endTime":307.621,"body":"sort of forgetting what the unified brand was for."},{"startTime":308.001,"endTime":310.822,"body":"So they've been very successful with the branding by an intra."},{"startTime":310.822,"endTime":314.853,"body":"They've been very, very successful with the brand behind purview and defender."},{"startTime":314.853,"endTime":316.753,"body":"and even Microsoft 365."},{"startTime":317.073,"endTime":325.293,"body":"But with Syntex, you had this kind of weird mix of some things that were storage related"},{"startTime":317.073,"endTime":325.293,"body":"and some things that were content AI related, although they weren't really called that at"},{"startTime":325.293,"endTime":326.433,"body":"the time."},{"startTime":326.931,"endTime":335.275,"body":"Well, because we started with what became Viva topics and SharePoint syntaxes, two things"},{"startTime":326.931,"endTime":335.275,"body":"that were launched that were adjacent together as separate products."},{"startTime":335.275,"endTime":338.256,"body":"And then there's like a lot of things, right?"},{"startTime":338.256,"endTime":340.318,"body":"They go find their own home."},{"startTime":340.318,"endTime":344.191,"body":"content classification and tagging and things that seem almost."},{"startTime":344.191,"endTime":346.678,"body":"Not naughty now in a way, because."},{"startTime":346.678,"endTime":354.622,"body":"Easy understanding of documents is almost part of most modern generative AI models as"},{"startTime":346.678,"endTime":354.622,"body":"well."},{"startTime":354.622,"endTime":358.843,"body":"Especially with the ability to use tools and things like that, venture and calling."},{"startTime":359.804,"endTime":365.666,"body":"But the point being that Microsoft started that as a license, didn't they?"},{"startTime":365.666,"endTime":366.646,"body":"For SharePoint syntax."},{"startTime":366.646,"endTime":368.746,"body":"Then they moved it to a pay as you go model."},{"startTime":368.746,"endTime":370.917,"body":"But the on-ramp to use it was quite high."},{"startTime":370.917,"endTime":383.404,"body":"There's an on-ramp to use these agents, is build an agent that begins life as something"},{"startTime":370.917,"endTime":383.404,"body":"you build inside Copilot Chat, then get other people to use it in the organization."},{"startTime":383.404,"endTime":385.937,"body":"It's got a model for consumption."},{"startTime":385.937,"endTime":390.479,"body":"It's an opportunity in a way, but it's quite a limited one, right?"},{"startTime":390.989,"endTime":391.619,"body":"Yeah, it is."},{"startTime":391.619,"endTime":403.788,"body":"But you know, I like the idea that Microsoft is going to enable people to be, gosh, I"},{"startTime":391.619,"endTime":403.788,"body":"don't want to call them citizen developers, but I don't know what, you know, you call an"},{"startTime":403.788,"endTime":407.582,"body":"agent builder, but they're democratizing use of this inside the enterprise."},{"startTime":407.582,"endTime":416.408,"body":"And I think that's really important because they can't, Microsoft themselves can't build"},{"startTime":407.582,"endTime":416.408,"body":"every capability and every, you know, agent behavior that people might want."},{"startTime":416.628,"endTime":419.44,"body":"And the world we're in today is still one where"},{"startTime":419.656,"endTime":426.109,"body":"You have to be pretty knowledgeable to be able to do your own model training and build"},{"startTime":419.656,"endTime":426.109,"body":"your own model based solutions from scratch."},{"startTime":426.109,"endTime":434.553,"body":"It's certainly doable and it's much easier now than it was say two years ago, but it's"},{"startTime":426.109,"endTime":434.553,"body":"still not to the point necessarily where somebody in the accounting department or the"},{"startTime":434.553,"endTime":437.195,"body":"shipping department is able to easily do it."},{"startTime":437.195,"endTime":439.976,"body":"So this lowers the entry bar quite a bit."},{"startTime":439.976,"endTime":440.887,"body":"And I think that's good."},{"startTime":440.887,"endTime":444.038,"body":"I think we're going to see it get some uptake fairly quickly."},{"startTime":444.076,"endTime":446.177,"body":"Businesses want lower staff costs."},{"startTime":446.177,"endTime":452.31,"body":"Someone starting a startup today might say I'd like to employ half the number of employees"},{"startTime":446.177,"endTime":452.31,"body":"as my competitors."},{"startTime":452.31,"endTime":453.321,"body":"So give me an advantage."},{"startTime":453.321,"endTime":454.74,"body":"But it is that isn't it?"},{"startTime":454.74,"endTime":457.023,"body":"know if you could make it easier for."},{"startTime":457.023,"endTime":461.644,"body":"The the overworked person in a know our best case scenario overworked person in"},{"startTime":457.023,"endTime":461.644,"body":"department."},{"startTime":461.644,"endTime":462.655,"body":"They need three people."},{"startTime":462.655,"endTime":464.001,"body":"They're never going to get three people."},{"startTime":464.001,"endTime":465.986,"body":"It's just them if they can."},{"startTime":466.227,"endTime":466.979,"body":"Automate."},{"startTime":466.979,"endTime":470.522,"body":"the most laborious parts of their job using agents, then that's great."},{"startTime":470.522,"endTime":481.386,"body":"I mean, the goal of AI companies is to be able to automate the entirety of particular jobs"},{"startTime":470.522,"endTime":481.386,"body":"that are suited to do so, That doesn't mean people will choose to do that or choose, you"},{"startTime":481.386,"endTime":483.267,"body":"know, but some industries will."},{"startTime":483.467,"endTime":486.029,"body":"They just feel a little bit like turkeys voting for Christmas."},{"startTime":486.029,"endTime":494.952,"body":"kind of the most pervasive use case that I think, and for whatever reason, I'm not sure"},{"startTime":486.029,"endTime":494.952,"body":"that there are any AI companies who really capitalizing on this per se."},{"startTime":495.232,"endTime":504.405,"body":"But to me, the biggest and best and most general use case is using the AI to do things"},{"startTime":495.232,"endTime":504.405,"body":"that are too tedious or complicated for you to easily do."},{"startTime":504.405,"endTime":511.457,"body":"And I'll give you an example of something that I did today because I was trapped in"},{"startTime":504.405,"endTime":511.457,"body":"engineering meetings all day, which were really good, but also"},{"startTime":511.623,"endTime":513.015,"body":"you know, fairly high velocity."},{"startTime":513.015,"endTime":521.679,"body":"I had several pictures of whiteboards of lists of stuff and I needed to turn those into a"},{"startTime":513.015,"endTime":521.679,"body":"format that we can all collaborate on."},{"startTime":521.679,"endTime":525.76,"body":"Well, naturally, first thing I wanted to do was, hey, let me put this in an Excel sheet."},{"startTime":526.68,"endTime":533.274,"body":"So I dutifully opened up Copilot in OneDrive and asked it to extract the text from those"},{"startTime":526.68,"endTime":533.274,"body":"images."},{"startTime":533.274,"endTime":535.325,"body":"Well, Copilot can't do that yet."},{"startTime":535.945,"endTime":538.026,"body":"So then I tried Chat DPT."},{"startTime":538.33,"endTime":540.15,"body":"I have the free subscription."},{"startTime":540.15,"endTime":549.23,"body":"don't pay open AI because I think they are very close behind Google in the, say don't be"},{"startTime":540.15,"endTime":549.23,"body":"evil, but then let's be evil anyway, sweepstakes."},{"startTime":549.23,"endTime":552.19,"body":"So I just don't want to give them any money right now."},{"startTime":552.67,"endTime":555.17,"body":"Despite the fact that Microsoft is giving them money."},{"startTime":555.17,"endTime":563.05,"body":"by extension, when I pay Microsoft anyway, a chat GPT couldn't do it either, but, uh,"},{"startTime":555.17,"endTime":563.05,"body":"Anthropics called model did it very easily."},{"startTime":563.61,"endTime":566.638,"body":"I upload uploaded the image and said convert each."},{"startTime":566.638,"endTime":571.674,"body":"block of text here into a entry and it did a very good job."},{"startTime":571.674,"endTime":573.065,"body":"made very few mistakes."},{"startTime":573.065,"endTime":579.392,"body":"So let's leave aside the maybe five minutes it took me to decide that those other two"},{"startTime":573.065,"endTime":579.392,"body":"tools couldn't do it."},{"startTime":579.392,"endTime":585.678,"body":"I was done in perhaps five minutes, whereas retyping all those things by hand would have"},{"startTime":579.392,"endTime":585.678,"body":"taken me probably half an hour or more."},{"startTime":586.079,"endTime":588.941,"body":"If you multiply, you multiply that."},{"startTime":588.941,"endTime":596.081,"body":"an opportunity for IT departments to break free of not necessarily."},{"startTime":596.081,"endTime":604.081,"body":"I've said this a few times before on the podcast that sometimes there's a little bit too"},{"startTime":596.081,"endTime":604.081,"body":"many restrictions on what copilot can do depending on your organization."},{"startTime":604.081,"endTime":604.701,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":604.701,"endTime":606.921,"body":"know, Microsoft will sell to a company."},{"startTime":606.921,"endTime":610.881,"body":"Um, but also that does, it makes guns."},{"startTime":610.881,"endTime":613.555,"body":"Um, but won't"},{"startTime":613.555,"endTime":615.908,"body":"talk about, make a marketing document for those guns."},{"startTime":615.908,"endTime":617.05,"body":"Fair enough, okay."},{"startTime":617.05,"endTime":621.273,"body":"We've had folk on the show, on the podcast to why."},{"startTime":621.273,"endTime":630.772,"body":"But if you do want to make it do those things, or you want to give it capabilities like"},{"startTime":621.273,"endTime":630.772,"body":"Paul's mentioned, that don't exist in that ecosystem, then it's a good opportunity to do"},{"startTime":630.772,"endTime":630.992,"body":"so."},{"startTime":630.992,"endTime":637.926,"body":"Because GitHub Copilot does now give you the opportunity in preview to use the Claude"},{"startTime":630.992,"endTime":637.926,"body":"Sonic model, right?"},{"startTime":638.767,"endTime":640.707,"body":"And it works very well."},{"startTime":640.907,"endTime":653.218,"body":"You can use it to work on a code base and do some really sort of interesting things that"},{"startTime":640.907,"endTime":653.218,"body":"sort of rival the open source equivalents like Klein for coding."},{"startTime":653.218,"endTime":666.426,"body":"Which means that you could build using a copilot agent that did exactly as Paul describes,"},{"startTime":653.218,"endTime":666.426,"body":"know, takes that photo, uses a state of the art model that"},{"startTime":666.426,"endTime":670.329,"body":"more expensive for a transaction to return that result."},{"startTime":670.689,"endTime":681.844,"body":"I use it for much more tedious stuff as well but like my like we're walking around the"},{"startTime":670.689,"endTime":681.844,"body":"shop supermarket and my daughter's done a shopping list my wife has just shouted out to"},{"startTime":681.844,"endTime":692.123,"body":"her bread milk blah blah blah whole long list of all the sort of things and and my wife"},{"startTime":681.844,"endTime":692.123,"body":"said right let's all go off in three directions to get all the food for Christmas."},{"startTime":692.355,"endTime":696.239,"body":"And I'm looking at this and going, okay, this makes no sense to me because it's not in any"},{"startTime":692.355,"endTime":696.239,"body":"order."},{"startTime":696.239,"endTime":703.864,"body":"So I took the, I a photo of my daughter's phone screen with this list that she'd taken a"},{"startTime":696.239,"endTime":703.864,"body":"photo of."},{"startTime":703.864,"endTime":714.377,"body":"I uploaded it to the Claude and asked it to write it as a shopping list based on the,"},{"startTime":703.864,"endTime":714.377,"body":"based on the normal layout of a UK supermarket, which it did, based on the aisle layout."},{"startTime":714.377,"endTime":715.062,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":715.062,"endTime":718.645,"body":"it got it completely right actually for a handwritten list."},{"startTime":718.645,"endTime":720.276,"body":"And I thought that was pretty cool, right?"},{"startTime":720.276,"endTime":727.883,"body":"You know, that's making sense of things that are sort of intangible that syntax couldn't"},{"startTime":720.276,"endTime":727.883,"body":"do very easily."},{"startTime":727.883,"endTime":730.915,"body":"You know, that's super unstructured data."},{"startTime":731.015,"endTime":737.555,"body":"And that's almost similar to sort of your use case in a way where a state-of-the-art model"},{"startTime":731.015,"endTime":737.555,"body":"can do these things like magic."},{"startTime":737.555,"endTime":742.898,"body":"Yeah, I like your point about being able to have a greater degree of customization."},{"startTime":742.898,"endTime":752.79,"body":"And I wonder if at some point the commercial situation between Microsoft and OpenAI is"},{"startTime":742.898,"endTime":752.79,"body":"going to lead Microsoft to decide that they would like to give their customers more"},{"startTime":752.79,"endTime":754.171,"body":"platform choice."},{"startTime":754.231,"endTime":757.092,"body":"And I don't know, you know, it's impossible to say how that'll work out."},{"startTime":757.092,"endTime":766.034,"body":"That's like so far above our level as, you know, 365 admins, it is sort of comical, but"},{"startTime":757.092,"endTime":766.034,"body":"you can see that there might be some business value in letting"},{"startTime":766.144,"endTime":771.934,"body":"Customers choose a tier of model that has more or fewer capabilities depending on what it"},{"startTime":766.144,"endTime":771.934,"body":"is they want to do."},{"startTime":772.594,"endTime":778.484,"body":"I mean, you can, you've got access to other vendors models in Azure alongside OpenAI."},{"startTime":778.484,"endTime":783.039,"body":"AWS, Bedrock is it, they have Claude Sonnet access as well."},{"startTime":783.039,"endTime":791.958,"body":"And I think it's, I think GitHub Copilot is offering Claude Sonnet via AWS if I remember"},{"startTime":783.039,"endTime":791.958,"body":"correctly."},{"startTime":791.958,"endTime":793.588,"body":"So quite the sort of."},{"startTime":793.588,"endTime":798.544,"body":"curve curve curve it your way of going around to get that access."},{"startTime":798.544,"endTime":805.391,"body":"So yeah, I I wouldn't they you know what Microsoft need to Microsoft providing office and"},{"startTime":798.544,"endTime":805.391,"body":"copilot."},{"startTime":805.391,"endTime":807.553,"body":"Is it is it a good thing?"},{"startTime":807.553,"endTime":812.978,"body":"I know the launch announcement says it's using GPT 4 under the hood."},{"startTime":812.978,"endTime":816.601,"body":"That's a smaller model right than chat GPT 4."},{"startTime":816.601,"endTime":820.404,"body":"It's not using anything state of the art for reasoning."},{"startTime":820.404,"endTime":821.084,"body":"What if you want?"},{"startTime":821.084,"endTime":821.755,"body":"What if you want that?"},{"startTime":821.755,"endTime":825.342,"body":"What if Microsoft aren't aren't the right folk to provide it?"},{"startTime":825.342,"endTime":835.321,"body":"What if you're you're looking at cheaper access to other state of the art models from some"},{"startTime":825.342,"endTime":835.321,"body":"of the big Chinese vendors like DeepMind?"},{"startTime":835.321,"endTime":838.641,"body":"where you can get access for a fraction of the cost."},{"startTime":838.641,"endTime":849.952,"body":"For a large organization, especially an international organization that's not massively"},{"startTime":838.641,"endTime":849.952,"body":"concerned about data centers on US soil, or can host those models themselves, then why"},{"startTime":849.952,"endTime":850.792,"body":"not?"},{"startTime":851.192,"endTime":858.732,"body":"It would be a great use of being able to give access to these kind of functions."},{"startTime":859.312,"endTime":860.892,"body":"But just through..."},{"startTime":861.772,"endTime":864.196,"body":"the Microsoft 365 copilot chat."},{"startTime":864.418,"endTime":869.527,"body":"Because the least interesting part of this is building a front end to it, isn't it?"},{"startTime":869.679,"endTime":871.17,"body":"Yeah, pretty much."},{"startTime":871.751,"endTime":880.709,"body":"Although I think a close second in terms of least interesting is there's a fairly new"},{"startTime":871.751,"endTime":880.709,"body":"copilot feature that will summarize a document for you when you open it."},{"startTime":880.709,"endTime":885.223,"body":"Now I've seen this for a while on insider builds, but it looks like it is getting out in"},{"startTime":880.709,"endTime":885.223,"body":"the wild."},{"startTime":885.223,"endTime":887.226,"body":"And I'm curious what you think about it."},{"startTime":887.226,"endTime":888.981,"body":"I'm."},{"startTime":888.981,"endTime":890.782,"body":"I think it's fantastic."},{"startTime":894.865,"endTime":897.39,"body":"I mean, theoretically, don't see the harm of it."},{"startTime":897.39,"endTime":901.595,"body":"My kids, my daughter would say to me that this is environmentally unfriendly."},{"startTime":901.595,"endTime":902.686,"body":"And I would disagree."},{"startTime":902.686,"endTime":907.361,"body":"I'd say it's not, cumulative, this has probably got some impact."},{"startTime":907.361,"endTime":908.767,"body":"But you know, but."},{"startTime":908.767,"endTime":914.973,"body":"The kind of things that kids are getting told at school, know, about AIs environmental"},{"startTime":908.767,"endTime":914.973,"body":"impact is somewhat out of date."},{"startTime":914.973,"endTime":915.283,"body":"And."},{"startTime":915.283,"endTime":924.041,"body":"You know, I don't think it costs Microsoft a lot to use something like GPT-4 mini, which"},{"startTime":915.283,"endTime":924.041,"body":"is said to be."},{"startTime":924.625,"endTime":926.224,"body":"I think that's probably true."},{"startTime":926.224,"endTime":934.174,"body":"And I guess I would just say generally as someone who has put four kids so far with one"},{"startTime":926.224,"endTime":934.174,"body":"more nearly done through the US education system."},{"startTime":934.255,"endTime":942.56,"body":"If you think they're being misled about environmental impact of AI, boy, wait till you"},{"startTime":934.255,"endTime":942.56,"body":"find out about some of the other stuff they've been misinformed about."},{"startTime":942.681,"endTime":946.084,"body":"But and I'm not joking when I say that."},{"startTime":946.084,"endTime":948.837,"body":"You're right that the aggregate impact is"},{"startTime":948.837,"endTime":955.844,"body":"pretty big, but I guess when I think about this from a standpoint of me as a user, I've"},{"startTime":948.837,"endTime":955.844,"body":"got to admit, I'm kind of struggling to see the value."},{"startTime":955.844,"endTime":963.821,"body":"So first of all, many of the documents that are going to get opened in my tenant or in my"},{"startTime":955.844,"endTime":963.821,"body":"work tenant are going to be documents I've created."},{"startTime":963.941,"endTime":971.578,"body":"So there is absolutely zero value to burning even one CPU cycle to summarize it because I"},{"startTime":963.941,"endTime":971.578,"body":"already know what's in it because I wrote it."},{"startTime":971.842,"endTime":972.664,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":973.054,"endTime":977.935,"body":"So leaving that aside, because I understand not everybody is on the output side of the"},{"startTime":973.054,"endTime":977.935,"body":"equation."},{"startTime":977.935,"endTime":982.788,"body":"Many people are, you know, they spend their jobs consuming documents that other people"},{"startTime":977.935,"endTime":982.788,"body":"have created."},{"startTime":984.505,"endTime":989.66,"body":"I guess I just have to wonder whether this is a feature that actually genuinely delivers"},{"startTime":984.505,"endTime":989.66,"body":"value."},{"startTime":989.66,"endTime":993.251,"body":"If every time you open a document, you have to pause for some amount of time."},{"startTime":993.251,"endTime":999.233,"body":"Well, pause is the wrong word because it opens in what appears to be a separate thread and"},{"startTime":993.251,"endTime":999.233,"body":"it doesn't block you from accessing the document."},{"startTime":999.554,"endTime":1004.827,"body":"I guess I'm not completely convinced that it offers enough value to have it be on by"},{"startTime":999.554,"endTime":1004.827,"body":"default."},{"startTime":1004.827,"endTime":1010.14,"body":"And as far as I can tell, there's no way for you to turn it off from a tenant standpoint."},{"startTime":1010.14,"endTime":1012.38,"body":"Individual users can disable it."},{"startTime":1012.581,"endTime":1014.756,"body":"But I don't know that an admin can."},{"startTime":1014.756,"endTime":1014.907,"body":"it?"},{"startTime":1014.907,"endTime":1019.613,"body":"How do you effectively manage or measure usage if it's being manipulated?"},{"startTime":1020.353,"endTime":1021.554,"body":"Is it being manipulated?"},{"startTime":1021.554,"endTime":1028.398,"body":"it a waste of time or is it something that on balance does something which is always hard"},{"startTime":1021.554,"endTime":1028.398,"body":"in adoption?"},{"startTime":1028.398,"endTime":1030.39,"body":"Reminding users that the feature exists"},{"startTime":1030.39,"endTime":1035.15,"body":"For some people, know, sometimes that might be like, oh, I forgot I could do that."},{"startTime":1035.15,"endTime":1037.328,"body":"For other people, might like,"},{"startTime":1037.328,"endTime":1038.109,"body":"can see that."},{"startTime":1038.109,"endTime":1048.047,"body":"know, to my way of thinking, and I have to admit, I haven't tested summarization in"},{"startTime":1038.109,"endTime":1048.047,"body":"Copilot thoroughly in a while, but when I did test it before, it led to, you know, that"},{"startTime":1048.047,"endTime":1049.628,"body":"infamous Hacker News article."},{"startTime":1049.628,"endTime":1050.239,"body":"That was fun."},{"startTime":1050.239,"endTime":1058.284,"body":"What I found is if I ask Outlook to summarize something using Copilot, if I ask it to"},{"startTime":1050.239,"endTime":1058.284,"body":"summarize the same message 10 times, I would get variable results."},{"startTime":1058.424,"endTime":1062.615,"body":"Now, this is not unexpected because, you if I ask my"},{"startTime":1062.615,"endTime":1068.915,"body":"grandfather to tell me a story 10 times, he's not going to tell exactly the same story all"},{"startTime":1062.615,"endTime":1068.915,"body":"10 times."},{"startTime":1068.915,"endTime":1075.995,"body":"are going to be times when he focuses on one aspect of the story or another more, or he"},{"startTime":1068.915,"endTime":1075.995,"body":"gives me a longer version or a shorter version."},{"startTime":1075.995,"endTime":1081.055,"body":"So I get that it's not necessarily deterministic and I won't always get exactly the same"},{"startTime":1075.995,"endTime":1081.055,"body":"summary."},{"startTime":1081.535,"endTime":1086.446,"body":"But if I'm talking about document summarization and I think, okay, I'm going to open a 25"},{"startTime":1081.535,"endTime":1086.446,"body":"page document."},{"startTime":1086.446,"endTime":1090.406,"body":"How good a job is that summary going to do accurately reflecting?"},{"startTime":1090.81,"endTime":1094.934,"body":"enough of the document so that the summary is useful to me?"},{"startTime":1095.595,"endTime":1098.63,"body":"And the answer is I don't know because I haven't tested it."},{"startTime":1098.893,"endTime":1108.131,"body":"I mean, technically, if they're going to do this and not make it enable by default, then"},{"startTime":1098.893,"endTime":1108.131,"body":"the most efficient way and cost effective way doing this is usually through batch"},{"startTime":1108.131,"endTime":1109.072,"body":"inference anyway."},{"startTime":1109.072,"endTime":1113.706,"body":"why don't they summarize these upon change if it's always going to be done."},{"startTime":1113.706,"endTime":1120.613,"body":"really, whether you ask for a document summary or whether it's automatically showing it,"},{"startTime":1113.706,"endTime":1120.613,"body":"it's always there in the metadata."},{"startTime":1120.613,"endTime":1122.093,"body":"And then bring out"},{"startTime":1122.998,"endTime":1124.879,"body":"common tags that the organization uses."},{"startTime":1124.879,"endTime":1128.272,"body":"Because Viva Topics is never really going to sell ever, it?"},{"startTime":1128.272,"endTime":1141.254,"body":"But if you actually go to the trouble of doing a summary of a document, then you could"},{"startTime":1128.272,"endTime":1141.254,"body":"also, the same call could ask against all of the organization's SharePoint metadata, all"},{"startTime":1141.254,"endTime":1143.177,"body":"the taxonomy that exists."},{"startTime":1143.177,"endTime":1146.739,"body":"It would cost Microsoft nothing more if they're going to do this."},{"startTime":1147.644,"endTime":1152.766,"body":"Because obviously if someone saves a document, they will open it again in the future,"},{"startTime":1147.644,"endTime":1152.766,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":1152.766,"endTime":1156.068,"body":"So schedule for batch inference and save."},{"startTime":1156.068,"endTime":1158.749,"body":"People used to SharePoint doing things as scheduled tasks."},{"startTime":1158.749,"endTime":1162.191,"body":"It's the cost-effective way of doing those kind of transactions."},{"startTime":1162.191,"endTime":1168.858,"body":"I'm just looking for a positive way of doing it that actually would give a benefit to our"},{"startTime":1162.191,"endTime":1168.858,"body":"organization, right?"},{"startTime":1168.858,"endTime":1169.228,"body":"it."},{"startTime":1169.228,"endTime":1170.468,"body":"It's cool."},{"startTime":1170.468,"endTime":1170.688,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1170.688,"endTime":1182.212,"body":"I mean, the idea that I can have a machine give me a useful, accurate, factual summary of"},{"startTime":1170.688,"endTime":1182.212,"body":"a document written in natural language, that would have been science fiction 10 years ago."},{"startTime":1182.212,"endTime":1182.512,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1182.512,"endTime":1184.462,"body":"Nobody could do that until fairly recently."},{"startTime":1184.462,"endTime":1189.594,"body":"So the fact that I have that on my, you know, my desktop, that's pretty dang cool."},{"startTime":1189.594,"endTime":1191.244,"body":"It happens to be a kind of cool."},{"startTime":1191.244,"endTime":1193.445,"body":"doesn't personally benefit me."},{"startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1195.782,"body":"but I can still appreciate the accomplishment of it, right?"},{"startTime":1195.782,"endTime":1199.557,"body":"I mean, it's a nifty feature and I know there are people that this will be useful for."},{"startTime":1200.322,"endTime":1206.902,"body":"Yes, I'm just thinking it could do, you know, it's not exactly state of the art."},{"startTime":1206.902,"endTime":1211.042,"body":"It's in the, for a lot of people, it's in the category of party tricks, right?"},{"startTime":1211.822,"endTime":1220.002,"body":"It's obviously on one step above, ask a co-pilot to describe you based on what it knows as"},{"startTime":1211.822,"endTime":1220.002,"body":"a superhero or something like that."},{"startTime":1220.002,"endTime":1224.693,"body":"Really lame and pointless stuff that people waste their workdays doing."},{"startTime":1224.693,"endTime":1228.293,"body":"And that's going from someone that hasn't tried this themselves."},{"startTime":1229.191,"endTime":1230.887,"body":"The voice of experience."},{"startTime":1231.719,"endTime":1235.102,"body":"above doing stuff like that, but it's a party trick isn't it?"},{"startTime":1235.102,"endTime":1241.626,"body":"to some people summarisation is a party trick, to others it's really useful."},{"startTime":1241.626,"endTime":1243.667,"body":"Does it need to be on by default?"},{"startTime":1243.667,"endTime":1245.348,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1245.348,"endTime":1250.925,"body":"I don't know whether Microsoft are actually doing it on document load, if they're doing it"},{"startTime":1245.348,"endTime":1250.925,"body":"on save."},{"startTime":1250.925,"endTime":1253.57,"body":"they're queuing them for batch summarization."},{"startTime":1253.77,"endTime":1256.115,"body":"So it's super efficient, has to be done once."},{"startTime":1256.115,"endTime":1258.923,"body":"Then that has no impact at all,"},{"startTime":1258.923,"endTime":1263.976,"body":"you can test that because the feature will work if you open a document that's an email"},{"startTime":1258.923,"endTime":1263.976,"body":"attachment, for example."},{"startTime":1263.976,"endTime":1268.29,"body":"So when you open that, there's not really a SharePoint site to host it."},{"startTime":1268.29,"endTime":1272.754,"body":"And I think all the document summarization today is being done on demand."},{"startTime":1272.754,"endTime":1278.519,"body":"That's not to say that they couldn't have a scheduled job that does batch inference."},{"startTime":1278.519,"endTime":1280.621,"body":"That might be more efficient in some cases."},{"startTime":1280.621,"endTime":1282.912,"body":"But you know this really well."},{"startTime":1282.951,"endTime":1285.295,"body":"I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't."},{"startTime":1285.976,"endTime":1287.849,"body":"Well, I can tell you why."},{"startTime":1287.849,"endTime":1296.579,"body":"Because if you think of all the people that have got dusty SharePoint data that they only"},{"startTime":1287.849,"endTime":1296.579,"body":"retain because they don't want to do classification or cleanup, you're going to end up"},{"startTime":1296.579,"endTime":1300.233,"body":"burning a lot of cycles to summarize documents that no one will ever open again."},{"startTime":1300.278,"endTime":1301.778,"body":"No, mean on safe, it."},{"startTime":1301.778,"endTime":1304.289,"body":"If it's a document that's been saved, queue it for that."},{"startTime":1304.289,"endTime":1316.607,"body":"Or if it's opened and then summarized, have a property that's used for this that is"},{"startTime":1304.289,"endTime":1316.607,"body":"internal, only used by copilot, whatever it is, stored in shard as static metadata."},{"startTime":1316.607,"endTime":1324.65,"body":"But whenever I do any sort of captioning, classification, anything I do, I always try and"},{"startTime":1316.607,"endTime":1324.65,"body":"keep."},{"startTime":1324.69,"endTime":1328.233,"body":"so that I never have to do it more than once because it costs money, right?"},{"startTime":1328.233,"endTime":1333.877,"body":"If I'm writing software that's going to go and do any sort of inference, batch inference"},{"startTime":1328.233,"endTime":1333.877,"body":"is cheaper."},{"startTime":1333.877,"endTime":1344.192,"body":"And if the answer is going to be roughly the same every single time, unless it changes,"},{"startTime":1333.877,"endTime":1344.192,"body":"then it would seem wildly inefficient to, for example, send out an email attachment or a"},{"startTime":1344.192,"endTime":1347.394,"body":"link to a SharePoint document to a hundred thousand people."},{"startTime":1347.394,"endTime":1351.166,"body":"They all open the document and then it summarizes it a hundred thousand times."},{"startTime":1351.166,"endTime":1353.309,"body":"That would be, you know,"},{"startTime":1353.323,"endTime":1357.787,"body":"We've been talking about this feature for five minutes and come across that as a problem."},{"startTime":1357.787,"endTime":1361.951,"body":"If they wrote this and didn't think this through, it must do this."},{"startTime":1361.951,"endTime":1370.278,"body":"If it didn't, well, perhaps that's a bigger problem to do with Microsoft's dev teams and"},{"startTime":1361.951,"endTime":1370.278,"body":"their focus on AI."},{"startTime":1370.278,"endTime":1374.922,"body":"Maybe they focus more on getting it right."},{"startTime":1375.371,"endTime":1381.571,"body":"you wanted to get this capability in market and see if it's valuable and useful, one way"},{"startTime":1375.371,"endTime":1381.571,"body":"to do it would be you do it on document load."},{"startTime":1381.571,"endTime":1387.331,"body":"And then if people like it and it seems like it's useful, then you come up with a more"},{"startTime":1381.571,"endTime":1387.331,"body":"elegant way to do it at better scale."},{"startTime":1387.554,"endTime":1389.974,"body":"This isn't a test pluff when people are paying for this."},{"startTime":1389.974,"endTime":1392.878,"body":"sure, but that doesn't mean it's not a test platform."},{"startTime":1392.878,"endTime":1400.681,"body":"I I know you've used windows over the years, so let's not pretend like everything that"},{"startTime":1392.878,"endTime":1400.681,"body":"Microsoft ships is fully baked and not just picking on Microsoft."},{"startTime":1400.681,"endTime":1403.686,"body":"The same is true for Google and Apple and you know,"},{"startTime":1403.686,"endTime":1408.125,"body":"to put Gmail beta in it and Microsoft would say, oh, this isn't a beta."},{"startTime":1408.125,"endTime":1409.959,"body":"getting what you paid for, right?"},{"startTime":1410.128,"endTime":1412.41,"body":"Yes, I know I'm just being silly."},{"startTime":1414.248,"endTime":1418.274,"body":"does half baked features are not top of my priority list, right?"},{"startTime":1418.274,"endTime":1419.967,"body":"Why make something wasteful?"},{"startTime":1419.967,"endTime":1427.07,"body":"That's, you know, it's like building a tap but not a faucet, water faucet and not being"},{"startTime":1419.967,"endTime":1427.07,"body":"able to switch it off."},{"startTime":1428.153,"endTime":1431.007,"body":"Because, well, let's see if people want to switch it on first."},{"startTime":1431.312,"endTime":1442.983,"body":"We could have really interesting conversation about the death of optimization in computer"},{"startTime":1431.312,"endTime":1442.983,"body":"science as a whole, because as we move to a world where compute and RAM and network"},{"startTime":1442.983,"endTime":1455.212,"body":"connectivity are so ubiquitous and so cheap, man, there are a lot of people who are"},{"startTime":1442.983,"endTime":1455.212,"body":"writing software and using tools that would have been unacceptable 10 or 15 years ago"},{"startTime":1455.212,"endTime":1457.323,"body":"because they were so resource intensive."},{"startTime":1457.625,"endTime":1462.093,"body":"So that's probably a topic for another time though, because it'll lead us to talking about"},{"startTime":1457.625,"endTime":1462.093,"body":"the metaverse."},{"startTime":1462.207,"endTime":1465.648,"body":"Well, it is a good segue into power platform."},{"startTime":1468.068,"endTime":1473.241,"body":"Which I low code no code environments are designed to be that way, right?"},{"startTime":1473.241,"endTime":1476.054,"body":"They're not efficient in any sense because."},{"startTime":1476.054,"endTime":1477.796,"body":"They're another level above right?"},{"startTime":1477.796,"endTime":1483.587,"body":"But one of the problems that everybody has with that kind of stuff is tenant migrations"},{"startTime":1477.796,"endTime":1483.587,"body":"and I've done."},{"startTime":1483.587,"endTime":1486.579,"body":"I've done quite a few where it's relied upon."},{"startTime":1486.707,"endTime":1492.192,"body":"manual export and re-import of applications relying upon users to move some of their own."},{"startTime":1492.192,"endTime":1499.777,"body":"Come February public preview of being able to migrate these tenant to using PowerShell"},{"startTime":1492.192,"endTime":1499.777,"body":"command that's coming to the service."},{"startTime":1499.797,"endTime":1501.639,"body":"I think that's a fantastic thing."},{"startTime":1501.639,"endTime":1510.925,"body":"If you were beginning planning an on-demand migration project and this was one of the"},{"startTime":1501.639,"endTime":1510.925,"body":"things on your list that actually you didn't have a full solution for, it might be worth"},{"startTime":1510.925,"endTime":1512.386,"body":"looking at whether"},{"startTime":1512.603,"endTime":1520.132,"body":"The public preview is something that you can join and perhaps use for that migration, you"},{"startTime":1512.603,"endTime":1520.132,"body":"know, alongside the proper migration tools."},{"startTime":1520.132,"endTime":1529.841,"body":"Yeah, I like that they're doing that because one thing a lot of people who had not used a"},{"startTime":1520.132,"endTime":1529.841,"body":"power platform or if they're not steeped in the ecosystem, then they may not be familiar"},{"startTime":1529.841,"endTime":1534.274,"body":"with the concept of what an environment is and power platform and data verse."},{"startTime":1534.435,"endTime":1543.011,"body":"So you can almost think of this, an environment is sort of the counterpart object to a"},{"startTime":1534.435,"endTime":1543.011,"body":"tenant in some ways, although you can have multiple environments that are tenant."},{"startTime":1543.011,"endTime":1545.3,"body":"They're usually used to say, okay, I have a..."},{"startTime":1545.3,"endTime":1550.383,"body":"an environment for developing software and then I've got a staging environment and then"},{"startTime":1545.3,"endTime":1550.383,"body":"I've got my production environment."},{"startTime":1550.584,"endTime":1558.121,"body":"But because you can have multiple environments, the ability to move stuff from one"},{"startTime":1550.584,"endTime":1558.121,"body":"environment to another, even if they're in different tenants is pretty significant."},{"startTime":1558.121,"endTime":1567.379,"body":"It's going to enable quite a few professional app, you know, app lifecycle management"},{"startTime":1558.121,"endTime":1567.379,"body":"scenarios that we haven't had up until now."},{"startTime":1567.948,"endTime":1570.639,"body":"Yeah, think it's a really good thing."},{"startTime":1570.639,"endTime":1574.801,"body":"must be a long-waited engineering effort as well."},{"startTime":1574.801,"endTime":1581.807,"body":"think some things were reliant on Microsoft to be able to do and this is certainly one of"},{"startTime":1574.801,"endTime":1581.807,"body":"those."},{"startTime":1581.807,"endTime":1585.009,"body":"So yeah, I think that's absolutely fantastic."},{"startTime":1585.009,"endTime":1590.362,"body":"Thankfully, I'm not doing tentative migrations these days, but if I was, then..."},{"startTime":1590.362,"endTime":1594.585,"body":"Yeah, it could be something I'd definitely want to get on the preview for."},{"startTime":1594.585,"endTime":1598.466,"body":"I'll look forward to hearing your report once it gets little closer to release time."},{"startTime":1598.466,"endTime":1603.544,"body":"Now there's news that Microsoft are reorganizing their dev teams around AI services."},{"startTime":1603.544,"endTime":1606.107,"body":"And you work with a lot of developers, don't you?"},{"startTime":1606.288,"endTime":1607.041,"body":"Is this?"},{"startTime":1607.041,"endTime":1608.919,"body":"they don't like being reorganized."},{"startTime":1609.853,"endTime":1611.074,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1611.074,"endTime":1623.39,"body":"However, it seems perhaps better than what Mark Zuckerberg was recently saying on one of"},{"startTime":1611.074,"endTime":1623.39,"body":"podcasts that he joins and talks on about how, know, CEOs love to say about how AI is"},{"startTime":1623.39,"endTime":1624.464,"body":"going to replace people."},{"startTime":1624.464,"endTime":1631.428,"body":"But having someone say it's going to replace thousands of my employees would be so"},{"startTime":1624.464,"endTime":1631.428,"body":"demoralizing compared to,"},{"startTime":1631.428,"endTime":1636.562,"body":"it's, it's worse than that because he also said they were laying off the bottom 5 % of"},{"startTime":1631.428,"endTime":1636.562,"body":"their performers."},{"startTime":1636.562,"endTime":1645.447,"body":"And so what that means is now each one of those people, when they go to look for another"},{"startTime":1636.562,"endTime":1645.447,"body":"job and they're asked, why did you leave Facebook?"},{"startTime":1645.447,"endTime":1646.268,"body":"Why I left Facebook?"},{"startTime":1646.268,"endTime":1647.339,"body":"Because I got laid off."},{"startTime":1647.339,"endTime":1649.65,"body":"you're one of the losers that they got rid of."},{"startTime":1649.65,"endTime":1651.231,"body":"That's just mean."},{"startTime":1651.231,"endTime":1656.074,"body":"There was no reason for Zuck to say that as part of the announcement of the layoffs."},{"startTime":1656.145,"endTime":1658.086,"body":"But that's always been happening, hasn't it?"},{"startTime":1658.086,"endTime":1663.229,"body":"You know, that happens at Microsoft and other companies, Six Sigma and things like that"},{"startTime":1658.086,"endTime":1663.229,"body":"have been around for a long, time."},{"startTime":1663.229,"endTime":1672.714,"body":"And people still are only up from having ex meta, ex exoogler, exoogler, whatever they"},{"startTime":1663.229,"endTime":1672.714,"body":"call it, or ex Microsoft on the CVs."},{"startTime":1672.714,"endTime":1682.097,"body":"You know, I know people who worked at Microsoft 20 years ago and they still go, it's still"},{"startTime":1672.714,"endTime":1682.097,"body":"almost the second thing that they say, you know, I work at so and so I'm at ex Microsoft."},{"startTime":1682.138,"endTime":1683.203,"body":"So I don't..."},{"startTime":1683.203,"endTime":1684.415,"body":"That's not the worst thing."},{"startTime":1684.415,"endTime":1686.597,"body":"The fact is you were employed there in the first place."},{"startTime":1686.597,"endTime":1688.288,"body":"You know a lot of stuff."},{"startTime":1688.429,"endTime":1698.944,"body":"The barn 5 % is still in many people's opinion, probably quite higher than the top 10 % of"},{"startTime":1688.429,"endTime":1698.944,"body":"a small software development company."},{"startTime":1698.944,"endTime":1700.898,"body":"Yeah, true or otherwise, right?"},{"startTime":1700.898,"endTime":1710.166,"body":"So it's a much after doing a big reorganization, so not super popular compared to not"},{"startTime":1700.898,"endTime":1710.166,"body":"doing a reorganization, but I suppose it's not that thing is it?"},{"startTime":1710.907,"endTime":1713.53,"body":"They do need to reorganize towards AI, but."},{"startTime":1713.53,"endTime":1717.153,"body":"I wonder whether this means there'll be more unfinished."},{"startTime":1717.413,"endTime":1721.037,"body":"Things in the closet bits of software that."},{"startTime":1721.47,"endTime":1725.971,"body":"You know, that's always a possibility."},{"startTime":1725.971,"endTime":1729.473,"body":"It's super interesting to me if you look at what got put together."},{"startTime":1729.473,"endTime":1739.598,"body":"They took the existing development division and they added to it the AI platform division,"},{"startTime":1729.473,"endTime":1739.598,"body":"which is what owned a bunch of bits and bobs of AI."},{"startTime":1739.678,"endTime":1744.689,"body":"And they stuck it together with some teams from the office of the CTO, which I thought was"},{"startTime":1739.678,"endTime":1744.689,"body":"interesting."},{"startTime":1744.689,"endTime":1747.42,"body":"So the ones that they list in the blog post are..."},{"startTime":1747.572,"endTime":1753.075,"body":"their AI, AI, agentic runtime and engineering thrive."},{"startTime":1753.075,"endTime":1754.545,"body":"Man, that sounds good, right?"},{"startTime":1754.545,"endTime":1755.796,"body":"I want my engineers to thrive."},{"startTime":1755.796,"endTime":1756.816,"body":"Who doesn't?"},{"startTime":1757.917,"endTime":1770.691,"body":"So, so I'm wondering, you know, if this is the precursor, very much like any other kind of"},{"startTime":1757.917,"endTime":1770.691,"body":"organizational game, whether it's organizing the cups and saucers in your cabinets or"},{"startTime":1770.691,"endTime":1772.031,"body":"playing Tetris."},{"startTime":1772.213,"endTime":1780.167,"body":"When you move pieces around that creates new spaces and new configurations that you can"},{"startTime":1772.213,"endTime":1780.167,"body":"use to put more stuff."},{"startTime":1780.387,"endTime":1784.91,"body":"So is this an indicator that we're going to see other real ornaments?"},{"startTime":1784.91,"endTime":1785.85,"body":"Maybe, maybe not."},{"startTime":1785.85,"endTime":1786.68,"body":"mean, who knows?"},{"startTime":1786.68,"endTime":1790.391,"body":"It's criminal criminology to even ask about it."},{"startTime":1790.391,"endTime":1795.284,"body":"But it is interesting that they picked these specific pieces of the organization to plug"},{"startTime":1790.391,"endTime":1795.284,"body":"together in the new order."},{"startTime":1795.284,"endTime":1808.203,"body":"I mean, it could be a very, what's the word, tactful way or corporate presented way of the"},{"startTime":1795.284,"endTime":1808.203,"body":"same thing that Mark Zuckerberg is saying, which is preparing to be able to do a lot more"},{"startTime":1808.203,"endTime":1811.208,"body":"coding through the use of AI agents, right?"},{"startTime":1811.208,"endTime":1819.795,"body":"That's obviously going to happen because I mean, who wouldn't use GitHub Codespaces to do"},{"startTime":1811.208,"endTime":1819.795,"body":"a bit of that?"},{"startTime":1819.795,"endTime":1822.796,"body":"It's soon, if not already, a dev's core skill."},{"startTime":1822.796,"endTime":1829.521,"body":"It'd be able to use AI in a way that doesn't take more time than just doing it by hand."},{"startTime":1829.521,"endTime":1830.306,"body":"So could be that."},{"startTime":1830.306,"endTime":1835.088,"body":"wish the reorganizees the very best of luck in their new homes."},{"startTime":1835.582,"endTime":1845.082,"body":"I mean the thing about reorganisation, having been through these myself, right, you"},{"startTime":1835.582,"endTime":1845.082,"body":"sometimes you don't win out of them, sometimes you do, but they always offer opportunity,"},{"startTime":1845.082,"endTime":1847.153,"body":"right, to step up of some kind."},{"startTime":1847.153,"endTime":1857.873,"body":"you know if you weren't, if you were in one of these roles where you weren't doing AI and"},{"startTime":1847.153,"endTime":1857.873,"body":"now you're going to have the opportunity to be part of that, then that's, you know, that's"},{"startTime":1857.873,"endTime":1861.564,"body":"always going to be a win whenever there's some new emerging technology."},{"startTime":1861.564,"endTime":1873.245,"body":"And some of the wins in science with AI have been combining two separate things where AI,"},{"startTime":1861.564,"endTime":1873.245,"body":"well, the knowledge from one and the knowledge from another hasn't really been combined."},{"startTime":1873.405,"endTime":1883.165,"body":"And that could be where Microsoft see these wins, where they've got the minds of people"},{"startTime":1873.405,"endTime":1883.165,"body":"who are really not focused on anything to do with AI, extremely smart people combined with"},{"startTime":1883.165,"endTime":1884.925,"body":"folks who are quite adept at using it."},{"startTime":1884.925,"endTime":1888.485,"body":"And then they're working together and that's been some, you know, because it's been"},{"startTime":1884.925,"endTime":1888.485,"body":"brilliant."},{"startTime":1888.738,"endTime":1893.461,"body":"Perhaps they'll set AI agents to crush all bugs in Windows 11 or something like that."},{"startTime":1894.082,"endTime":1899.597,"body":"Exactly, you know, just churning away at all the stuff that people don't have time to deal"},{"startTime":1894.082,"endTime":1899.597,"body":"with, right?"},{"startTime":1899.597,"endTime":1901.937,"body":"So I think positive things."},{"startTime":1902.133,"endTime":1907.928,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's always important to make sure that your organizational"},{"startTime":1902.133,"endTime":1907.928,"body":"structure reflects what you're trying to do."},{"startTime":1908.128,"endTime":1914.818,"body":"And so given what Microsoft has said about the structure and also what they're, you know,"},{"startTime":1908.128,"endTime":1914.818,"body":"what we think they're trying to accomplish."},{"startTime":1914.818,"endTime":1916.995,"body":"And I think these are probably a good move."},{"startTime":1917.737,"endTime":1923.761,"body":"And if they fix windows 11 bugs automatically with agents, and that's just gravy on the"},{"startTime":1917.737,"endTime":1923.761,"body":"ice cream."},{"startTime":1924.423,"endTime":1925.047,"body":"Wait."},{"startTime":1925.047,"endTime":1933.678,"body":"we were talking, we complained about the about Copilot doing a document summary and"},{"startTime":1925.047,"endTime":1933.678,"body":"talking Windows 11, we forgot to mention Windows Recall, which is constantly doing this,"},{"startTime":1933.678,"endTime":1935.321,"body":"you know, on the PC side."},{"startTime":1935.321,"endTime":1937.453,"body":"So in the scale of things."},{"startTime":1938.293,"endTime":1942.075,"body":"we've given recall such a hard time already."},{"startTime":1942.075,"endTime":1944.276,"body":"Probably don't need to recap that, but yeah, you're right."},{"startTime":1944.276,"endTime":1946.168,"body":"It's a difference of scale, right?"},{"startTime":1946.168,"endTime":1955.513,"body":"If it's warming up the CPU in my local machine to summarize documents on my local machine,"},{"startTime":1946.168,"endTime":1955.513,"body":"that seems like that's different in some important ways than taking a random document and"},{"startTime":1955.513,"endTime":1958.162,"body":"asking the service to summarize it for me."},{"startTime":1958.162,"endTime":1963.262,"body":"You're right that in the end, either way, you're being presented with a summer you didn't"},{"startTime":1958.162,"endTime":1963.262,"body":"ask for and can't stop."},{"startTime":1963.262,"endTime":1966.288,"body":"So, we've got quite a lot on the show today."},{"startTime":1966.577,"endTime":1967.367,"body":"Yeah, you know what?"},{"startTime":1967.367,"endTime":1971.223,"body":"One other thing I want to bring up because I miss this the first time because I was"},{"startTime":1967.367,"endTime":1971.223,"body":"asleep."},{"startTime":1971.223,"endTime":1974.707,"body":"Microsoft had a bit of an MFA outage on Monday of this week."},{"startTime":1974.707,"endTime":1981.023,"body":"It was Monday the 13th, which is not usually a bad luck day, but it was interesting"},{"startTime":1974.707,"endTime":1981.023,"body":"because it regionalized to Western Europe."},{"startTime":1981.023,"endTime":1986.947,"body":"So it actually happened while I was in the air asleep on my way to Copenhagen, which is"},{"startTime":1981.023,"endTime":1986.947,"body":"why I missed it."},{"startTime":1986.947,"endTime":1992.801,"body":"But I'm curious, did it affect you at all or was it too far west or sorry too far east of"},{"startTime":1986.947,"endTime":1992.801,"body":"you?"},{"startTime":1993.033,"endTime":2003.687,"body":"I wasn't affected by it, then again, I'm logged in and using it all the time, I didn't get"},{"startTime":1993.033,"endTime":2003.687,"body":"any people who use my tenant phoning me up in a panic, which they usually would do."},{"startTime":2003.687,"endTime":2005.965,"body":"Often the MFA attitudes don't affect..."},{"startTime":2005.965,"endTime":2008.405,"body":"you can have very large organisations."},{"startTime":2008.405,"endTime":2020.725,"body":"I remember when there was a big one, affected a very large UK telecommunications company,"},{"startTime":2008.405,"endTime":2020.725,"body":"one of the IT folks who I knew there, and they said that the impact was not as massive as"},{"startTime":2020.725,"endTime":2023.396,"body":"you would think, even with hundreds of thousands of people."},{"startTime":2023.396,"endTime":2026.253,"body":"But to that one person, it does affect, it's massive."},{"startTime":2026.253,"endTime":2027.013,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2027.013,"endTime":2037.919,"body":"And I think now that Microsoft is putting more emphasis on broader deployment of MFA, I"},{"startTime":2027.013,"endTime":2037.919,"body":"know they've invested a huge amount in resilience and stability and service quality for"},{"startTime":2037.919,"endTime":2040.079,"body":"MFA and the results have been very good."},{"startTime":2040.2,"endTime":2040.7,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2040.7,"endTime":2045.801,"body":"That's probably the part of the service that has the fewest problems."},{"startTime":2046.021,"endTime":2053.323,"body":"If you look at each individual component and look at, you know, Exchange Online versus"},{"startTime":2046.021,"endTime":2053.323,"body":"MFA, for example, the MFA guys end up looking pretty good."},{"startTime":2054.096,"endTime":2063.259,"body":"I mean one MFA thing that did change for me today actually is SMS messages began, at least"},{"startTime":2054.096,"endTime":2063.259,"body":"in the UK, moving to WhatsApp."},{"startTime":2063.259,"endTime":2075.45,"body":"So yeah, earlier in the week SMS and now the user gets a message saying if they obviously"},{"startTime":2063.259,"endTime":2075.45,"body":"got WhatsApp, check WhatsApp for your one time code, one time codes and now send there."},{"startTime":2075.631,"endTime":2076.871,"body":"It's a good thing."},{"startTime":2076.871,"endTime":2080.571,"body":"I say this because I changed my phone."},{"startTime":2080.571,"endTime":2082.411,"body":"And when you change your phone, it's a pain, isn't it?"},{"startTime":2082.411,"endTime":2083.991,"body":"Setting everything up again."},{"startTime":2083.991,"endTime":2089.051,"body":"So I the SMS notifications on as I recently changed my phone."},{"startTime":2089.471,"endTime":2091.23,"body":"I haven't signed everything back up."},{"startTime":2091.23,"endTime":2094.351,"body":"So I log into the Quest 10 and I got the notification."},{"startTime":2094.351,"endTime":2095.562,"body":"It's like, oh, OK."},{"startTime":2095.562,"endTime":2097.202,"body":"So it's over in WhatsApp."},{"startTime":2097.202,"endTime":2098.242,"body":"And it works, right?"},{"startTime":2098.242,"endTime":2099.162,"body":"It works fine."},{"startTime":2099.162,"endTime":2103.022,"body":"And of course, if the users had these before, then"},{"startTime":2103.528,"endTime":2106.32,"body":"they're not going to get a WhatsApp out the blue."},{"startTime":2106.32,"endTime":2114.525,"body":"They get that final message that's in the same thread as the existing messages with the"},{"startTime":2106.32,"endTime":2114.525,"body":"one-time codes, the verification codes as before."},{"startTime":2114.525,"endTime":2125.914,"body":"it's, even to a lazy loadout like myself, hadn't said authenticator again, I found it"},{"startTime":2114.525,"endTime":2125.914,"body":"wasn't any hassle and..."},{"startTime":2126.284,"endTime":2131.698,"body":"then suddenly it became a lot easier because now I just see the WhatsApp notification and"},{"startTime":2126.284,"endTime":2131.698,"body":"my phone lets me copy and paste it in."},{"startTime":2131.698,"endTime":2134.441,"body":"So if you do have users in that situation, then this will happen."},{"startTime":2134.441,"endTime":2137.173,"body":"They may ask if this is genuine, as they probably should."},{"startTime":2137.173,"endTime":2143.557,"body":"And we'll get a link to that if you weren't aware of that rolling out."},{"startTime":2143.557,"endTime":2151.303,"body":"it's a good change because so much has been written about SMS security and"},{"startTime":2151.303,"endTime":2161.456,"body":"multifactorial identification over the years that some organisations who have had to keep"},{"startTime":2151.303,"endTime":2161.456,"body":"it unwillingly will be glad to see the back of it."},{"startTime":2161.456,"endTime":2162.167,"body":"I know I will."},{"startTime":2162.167,"endTime":2171.274,"body":"If I never get another SMS authentication verification message, that would make me very"},{"startTime":2162.167,"endTime":2171.274,"body":"happy because it would mean that all the apps that I use have either switched over to TOTP"},{"startTime":2171.274,"endTime":2173.456,"body":"in an app or pass keys."},{"startTime":2173.456,"endTime":2182.902,"body":"So we should probably have some time in an upcoming episode dedicated to talk about pass"},{"startTime":2173.456,"endTime":2182.902,"body":"keys because there's a lot going on there in intra and in the broader industry, Windows"},{"startTime":2182.902,"endTime":2184.503,"body":"and Mac OS and so on."},{"startTime":2184.503,"endTime":2188.866,"body":"So we'll have to note that down for a future topic, but I think now we're about out of"},{"startTime":2184.503,"endTime":2188.866,"body":"time."},{"startTime":2189.157,"endTime":2193.223,"body":"Yes, so yeah thank you for listening to the show today, first one of 2025."},{"startTime":2193.223,"endTime":2198.413,"body":"We've got some interesting news for the next show but I will leave that for now."},{"startTime":2198.413,"endTime":2207.878,"body":"Check out the blog for the show where I'll double check that I can reveal all about our"},{"startTime":2198.413,"endTime":2207.878,"body":"new co-host that will be joining us on the next show."},{"startTime":2207.878,"endTime":2208.912,"body":"and needles."},{"startTime":2209.303,"endTime":2213.558,"body":"yes, and we've already got some really good guests lined up as well."},{"startTime":2213.558,"endTime":2214.457,"body":"So yeah, happy new"},{"startTime":2214.457,"endTime":2221.866,"body":"you better make sure you subscribe to our podcast at practical365.com or wherever you get"},{"startTime":2214.457,"endTime":2221.866,"body":"your podcasts from so you don't miss out."},{"startTime":2222.543,"endTime":2226.731,"body":"Yes, and thanks for listening and I'll catch you in a couple of weeks time."},{"startTime":2226.731,"endTime":2228.579,"body":"Yep, happy doodier everybody."}]}