Conversation with Jeff Matczak

Steve and Teague are joined by Kaukauna coach Jeff Matczak to talk about the team's journey on their way to winning their sixth consecutive D1 Team State title!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to the Wisconsin Wrestler Podcast with your co-host Teak Fenwick and Steve Lurkwick.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another edition of the Wisconsin Wrestler Podcast. I'm your host, Teak Fenwick, coming to you live from Holman. Joining me, as always, from Koshkin Among, my co-host, Steve Lurkwin. Steve, great to be here. I'm always pumped to be here, T. Excited for this one tonight. And we're and we're not live, I guess. I shouldn't have prefaced with that, but I'm excited too. We got part six of uh the Jeff Mogic series going on. Not something we planned, just something uh something we promised an interview to every team state champ coach, and here we are on the sixth Pete.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

And Teague Six Pete, and keep in mind we had to finagle this one around a little bit, do some rescheduling. The sixth time also with a brewer game. Well, not started yet, but we always have to do the podcast tonight with the brewer game on.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

So without further ado, uh, our guests are right in the middle of us here on the screens. Now a oh, Jeff, you might need a crick. Are we are we at 10 titles now? 10 time team state champ coach, currently running on a six peep, the head coach of the Kakana Galloping Ghost, Mr. Jeff Machik. Jeff, glad to have you back, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I'm glad to be here. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

And hey, I looked everywhere. I gave an earnest attempt at trying to find my Kacona Orange for tonight, and uh I could not find it. So I I ended up going with the next best thing. I got my Saint Croix Falls, which is a D1 school now. So I am repping D1 in this point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

All right, I'm hearing you. We needed to get to 10, and now I'm gonna set you guys up. All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

So I know I do have I do have a Kakana shirt. I just I have a lot of shirts, Jeff. I I am not good at organizing.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

I I went with uh I went with Switzerland, so to speak, but I just thought of this teague, actually, with competitive balance. I decide to go with a shirt where maybe they're gonna move Kakana up to compete with. But uh let's go after a little park side there.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Nice. Love it. Love it. Great year. Uh Jeff, first and foremost, how's your spring been?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Uh wet, just like everybody. Um cold. But uh it's 70 degrees today, so things are heating up and um state freestyle tournaments in the past, and uh, you know, Northern Plains this weekend. Uh brewers are in full swing. Uh fishing season's in full swing, and uh school's winding down, so it's it's great.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

NL Central's pretty tight right now, too. So it's it is it's a weird division.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

It's you know, you got I think the I don't know which American League division everybody's got a losing record, and everybody in the NL Central's got a winning record, and it'll all start evening out. There'll be some separation. You have to be uh 500 on June 1st within 10 games of the first place team, and you're you're right, then the season starts. So that's where that's where it'll be at that time. The Brewers are fine.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

You can't make the playoffs in April and May, but you can certainly miss them in April and May.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

And you can take off and get off to a good lead and put some separation in, but nobody's really doing that except maybe the Dodgers. So um, yeah, maybe maybe the Braves too in the uh NL East there because that division, everybody's losing and uh they're kind of taking off. So they could they could put some separation in, but there's a long way to go. That's what makes that that sport great.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Quick note on the weather. I don't know if you guys are getting this in your corner of the state. Uh your corners, I should say. Uh Wisconsin, the Midwest, kind of becoming the new tornado alley. We've had a tornado or two touchdown in my neck of the video.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, I watch them. I watch him pretty close on the Max Velocity website when there's uh stuff going on. I watch that guy religiously, he's pretty good. Um, but yeah, a couple there were like a couple entertaining Fridays, and you're you're um, you know, you're just hoping people protect themselves. And I think it was two Fridays ago where it was down in you know Janesville and things like that. So they're they're mentioning all these wrestling towns, and I think of all my people down there, McWanago, and they're it's heading towards this city and that city and stuff. So yeah, it it'll die down, but yeah, it was it's been kind of rough.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

It'll it'll soften up here soon. Right. Bellas, let's get to uh some uh wrestling talk here. And Jeff, it you've you've done this drill before, you know. The first question for I was gonna you want to guess the first question for this year's team, or no? No idea.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

No, no, I don't predict when you're unpredictable.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Now with the I follow the rubric pretty straight, but that's right. When when did you realize that this year's team had the potential to be team state champs, Jeff? Was it when you were returning like 10 or 12 starters or what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Not rocket science, you can screw that up, but um yeah, I mean, you've said it all. Like we had a really good team last year, and and and the big year was uh 2024 when this group of kids as sophomores, you know, represented the majority of the team, was able to get by a good, really good Wisconsin Rapids team, and then uh, you know, it sets you up to to do some things for a couple of years, but that doesn't always happen. And we've seen it through history, and you learn from history and really watch that. And um, you know, you I think sometimes it's easier to coach sophomores than it is seniors. No, I don't think sometimes I know all the time, um just from a learning curve and uh control of you know parents and of what what they're able to uh get their kids to, and and then then freedom sets in and kids are going. But you have to give those kids that freedom, but then you have to also talk about it with them that hey, you know, you're you're older now and you're doing your own things and you want independence and stuff, but you know, remember what you signed up for, it'd be an awful shame if you you let all that uh that freedom, so to speak, uh derail you from uh doing what you're what you've wanted to do. So, you know, you have to bring that back. And so that that's the challenge. And uh, but as far as you know, the talent and and all that, you have to you have to keep kids eligible and you have to keep them progressing and getting better. You never want anybody to do worse than they did the year before. And I think all of our seniors, I I I know like every single one of them, if there were seven or eight in the lineup, depending on the week, they all those kids stepped up from the year before.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

With uh knowing how many returners you have coming back, or even with the the kids that left, is there any adjustments you uh made to the start of the season training, or was there any like leadership vacuum that had to be filled? And what were those adjustments like if there were any?

SPEAKER_00 7:46

No, actually, we you I backed off on all that in yours uh uh as far as captains and things like that uh did not exist. Um team camp did not exist. Um, you know, it it was about individual development, letting kids have their time, giving them what they need, and then pulling it in in January and saying, okay, guys, it's time to pull together and be one. And and you could let that get away from you, but it never did. Like the kids naturally kind of gravitated towards each other in the beginning. You didn't force it, but then you kind of said, Okay, you said things that didn't need to be said, but they were with you all along. And uh because, you know, we're in a different world right now, like the captain thing, it's kind of archaic. It's not uh, I haven't named captains for a few years right now. I mean my uh our softball coach, Tim Roig, who wins four state titles in five years. Uh, me and him were talking one time and he said, Yeah, I haven't had captains. He had all this talent, and he had, you know, he had these incredible sophomores and, you know, all state Gatorade players of the year. They're young and they're winning state titles, and it's like, you know, your seniors are supposed to be your captains, but uh I think in wrestling it's a little easier because it's individual and you have to uh you know, the kids got to take care of themselves, they gotta do what they've got to do. And and then when it's a dual meet, and that's the only time that it really changes where okay, we might have to move things around and you gotta be a team. But um yeah, that that part, and then now now there's a young team coming back, so now you might might take a few kids and say, Okay, you three guys, I want you, hey guys, listen to these guys. Uh, they're gonna have to lead you right now. Uh, but it it changes every year.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Jeff, what's team camp? I know you you may have talked about it last year, and forgive me, I I can't remember what it was, but what talk about your team camp. What was that? And you didn't said you didn't do that this year.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

No, we have um so we'll go to uh I mean I've been going to team camp since the 90s, you know, started with Augsburg, Jeff Swenson, John Smith was there every year, and I started with me, you know, running out there and you know, with a parent, and uh you you get them out there and you you try to try to get your kids together. And now with with uh you know, the then the the contact days came in where you could get more involved with that. And now that's now the third stage is you know it's opened up a little bit, but um, you know, we were going back to Jeff Jordan in in St. Paris, Graham, Ohio, yeah, back in 2008. We went out there. Uh, I think we were the only Wisconsin team that was out there at that time. And if someone was out there at that time before that, you know, I'd let me know. But uh and then uh and then we went for maybe nine out of 11 years. I think the last time we went was 2018 or something like that, 2019. And we uh we just really like this system. And now um, I mean, after we went there for a few years, and I I talked to a lot of people, I there were 10 schools from Wisconsin going out there. I know Justin took the freedom guys out there, and I know Kyle's been going out with Nina over the years and probably moved on from it, but part of that is because Jeff now retired from the head coaching position and um still involved in the camps, but that is was the single most uh in 2009, 10, 11, 12. We were going out there, it was uh by far, by far, there was nothing that could touch it. Ben Ben didn't have his camps going yet in 2009 and 10. And so it was really good and it was an investment. And uh, but the thing about that is you went out and you learned a system. Okay, so you went out, the kids were all for five days, they were learning a system by one coaching staff from St. Bears Graham, Ohio, and they were nationally ranked and just whooping up on the grand state of Ohio and battling St. Ed's and Blair Academy. So um he'd bring his guys in. Like, well, I'll give you an example, like Robert Lee. He would wrestle in that tournament uh or wrestle in that camp, and he would come in there, and uh Jeff Jordan would bring in five guys for live wrestling every night that would just go. You know, Matt Calazi was a national champ, I believe, at Princeton, um, was wrestling. He was an Ohio local kid that wrestled in Jeff's club. He would come in every year for those five days and wrestle Robert. Not to mention, you know, it was it was uh Bo and Micah and Rocky Jordan. Like we were there when those kids were in seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, and eleventh grade. So all of our kids were wrestling, Bo Rocky and Micah Jordan. And uh I remember watching uh Marinelli. And then so later when we were there, you know, 2014 or 15 or so, I remember the greatest night of watching live wrestling. I got to watch Hartford brought some kids out, and Bo Bresci was wrestling uh Marinelli, the bull. And I watched them wrestle like 20 live goes. I think there were like four takedowns, and it was three for Marinelli and one for Bo Breski, and they wrestled like, like I said, like 20 or 30 two-minute goes, and people just cleared out of the room and watched those guys get out. It's where if you were somebody in the country, you were going to Jeff's camps. So it's that was a camp that we uh invested a lot in. Uh recently, a few years, probably three years, you know, after COVID, we went to David Thorne's camp uh at his farm out in uh kind of south central Minnesota. So David, what he did, and I think, you know, I think other schools have been there. I think Holman maybe have been there, maybe not, I don't know. But the thing about uh what what David did was he created Jeff Jordan 2.0 in the Midwest, you know, in the in Minnesota. So when David was young, his dad took him to in St. St. Michael Albertville, they went to uh the St. Paris or to the Jeff Jordan State Champ camp. And he was out there a number of times and became this multiple night state champ and all-American for the gophers, and you know, him and his brothers, legendary. But then he uh bought his grandfather's farm down in uh I can't even remember the name of the town. It's just it's it's St. Paris Graham is like driving through freedom, it's about the same size as that. And then where uh where David Thorne started his camp, it's about the size of I can't even name a town around here that anybody would even know. It's like there's nothing there. It's out in bean fields, soybean fields, cornfields. There's nothing out there, and it's him and his wife, his three kids. Yeah, it's three young kids, and he's yeah, it's Dundas, is what it is, and it's three young kids, and all the he's got this just this property, and uh, and then he's got this facility that has two mats in it, and uh, that's what he does, and it's phenomenal. So he he he basically runs the same system. The only thing is, is what Jeff Jordan did was he had three different sites he would run his camps at his high school, his his old horse barn. It's called the farm or the office, and then he had another little school out in town that he would run a third camp. So he'd have a hundred kids at every facility. He had three co three coaches and all his wrestlers. Uh there's a clinician. So he had more of a staff and a larger operation. Where David, it's one building, it's 50 kids in that building, but they're the same. They sleep on the mats, they cook the meals there, and it's wrestling for five days. It's a no, these are no-frills camps. They're not, you know, we did the Augsburg. Uh, I we went to no, we went to Missouri when Ben was a freshman uh down to Missouri. That first we went to Tiger style camps uh with Smith, and uh it was Ben's freshman year. It was like, okay, Ben went there, we're going there. And so we went out there with 30 kids, did the intensive camps, did the team camp. We've been to Nebraska when Jordan Burroughs was a sophomore junior. Okay, he was battling Andrew Howe. We were out there then, that was pretty close, like 2010, 11. And uh, but we've been, what other colleges? You know, when you talk Augsburg, obviously, we went to a camp in Dubuque. Um, the college camps are great, but here's the problem with them they're uh menu style. They're uh every clinician you have is something different, and uh it's a little hodgepodge, you know. I don't know how to say it. You know, they're they're good, they're valuable, don't get me wrong, but if you really want to systematically improve your team, uh you have to go to someplace where they're teaching a system, and that's what Jeff Jordan did. So, you know, there's a script of drilling and moves and techniques, and it's like we're not teaching anything crazy, we're gonna teach the ABCs, and uh and Jeff is phenomenal. And you know, we were out there all those years when Jesse Lang was his top assistant, and he um Jesse um started Rudus, okay, with uh the heavyweight from Iowa State. My mind's blinking, but I I remember sitting there with Jesse and he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna start a clothing line company and we're gonna get this going. And uh we're gonna we're gonna call it Rudis, like the sword in uh in the in the gladiators, you know, that Rudis sword they had, and we're gonna call it this. And because Jeff was cage fighter, Tommy Rowland's the name you were looking for. Yeah, we were sitting in Jeff's basement uh eating popcorn, watching LeBron James play in the NBA uh finals for uh the Cleveland Cavaliers. I remember that night. And we were sitting there and he's like, Yeah, and they kind of invited the coaches over because they're like, hey, we're starting this company. And because Jeff, everything that he had was cage fighter, and that was from the De Selvos, that MMA company out of Columbus. And that kind of went sour. And um they decided they were gonna start their own clothing line company for the Jeff Jordan camp and really appeal to just wrestling, you know, like Nike's not doing anything and ASICs and all these companies. But Jesse's Jesse was like, I'm gonna start this company called Rudis, and and it was really nice clothing, and and then it here it is right now. So there's some pretty neat experiences there through that all. That's the team camp story. We don't you know what this group of seniors had been out to David Thorne a couple times. Oh, one other camp we did that was pretty cool. We just this was a setup, and I've done a lot of camps in our room. You know, I I remember having uh what did Ben call his camps, uh the uh lethal weapon camps, you know, when he was in college, him and Max and John and he would bring up, you know, uh Josh Wayne, you know, he'd bring in all his guys, and we ran those, and and I did some other camps and um, you know, brought in coaches from Apple Valley and um, you know, um I remember I brought in Jack Reinwan and Bob Berceau. I just wanted these guys that had pedigree and were head coaches, winning state titles like come in and do things. I remember Tommy Clum when he was at Wisconsin. I really liked him, and he brought him in and did some things, brought Augsburg in. Uh, when Swenson was just ripping off titles there. Brought him in with uh Marcus Leveser and those guys. So we bring guys in, but uh uh uh one camp we did off that we just set up was with Israel Mart Izzy Martinez, who's at uh you know Montini and coaching all the fighters now. And he has a he's you know, Izzy has still got his building, and he had he had a new building down in. We've been down there a couple times, actually three times in three different facilities. It's crazy. But the last time we went, I think was 20 summer of 2019, and uh we went down there and we just said, Izzy, we want to come down, we want to sleep in your facility. A mom came down and cooked the meals for the kids, and uh he just like you just have them, you can have them. And uh he brought in all the Montini uh guys from his club from Izzy style, and they beat the crap out of you every night. He had MMA fighters like flying in from Arizona, and they were doing like kickboxing uh demonstrations for our guys, and he he it's just like uh it was in an industrial park, it's it was a big room, and it has a weight room in it, and our kids just slept, and he had a little basketball court outside in the street. Our kids would go out and you know, tear it up during breaks, and um, but it was something about wrestlers and having the little urge to play basketball, yeah. Yeah, and the thing about Izzy, so it was like going down and it's like, Izzy, you got our guys for four days, we're gonna stay three nights, and he set a price, and uh our kids all paid him and and uh parents bucked up and got him down. It was great. He was really good. It was different than Jordan, you know, it was about street tough and just being tough, you know, he'd take him to the bridge and all these things. Like he was really good. So kind of get creative with that. And I kind of I like for me, it's like, all right, guys, you know, why are we paying other guys to train our guys? Like our room has got to be a place where you know you come in and get your training in. Um, but also with the WWF and all the camps and the clubs since COVID, you know, how big AWA is got like we have more kids just like every school. You know, you might have had one or two kids 10 years ago going to AWA, but now it's the place. Nazar has exploded. So they're doing a lot of that. And kids are signed up and committed to do that in the summer. And you don't want to pull them away from that and go to a team camp somewhere. So, you know, we haven't we haven't done one and we probably won't, you know, again, but it's a very important part of uh program's development. But you have to pick the right one uh for what you want.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

I like the thoughts on the system, it makes sense as opposed to kids being like, all right, we're gonna learn takedowns today and we're gonna learn leg riding tomorrow, and then escapes the next as opposed to like when you bring up the system where each day builds upon itself.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

But that's I think at Jeff Jordan Camp, you didn't spend a you were there, you were Sunday night, so that was you just walked in and you did live wrestling. Monday is is through uh three. Well, there's instruction in the morning, instruction in the afternoon, live at night. And you did that Tuesday, Wednesday, and then Thursday. You had two more instructions, then you took off Thursday afternoon. So one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. You know, you had like eight instructional periods. You might have spent 30 minutes on the mat. The rest of it was from neutral. Nothing from bottom. There was nothing. You know, it was all right here.

unknown 23:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Good, especially with three-point takedowns. Oh, that's probably before three point. Maybe before that. Way before.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah. Yeah. That was uh gee, I don't know where you go from here. I mean, that was I know I know the reason why you know numerous coaches tune in, because I they just want to get a nugget, you know, from what the great coaches in the state are doing. And I tell you, that might that answer right there, Jeff, might have been worth the uh price of admission.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Well, you can think about it economically, like if a kid goes and spends uh you know$500 at a camp somewhere and he goes there and he develops himself, then he comes in your room, and then your terminology is different. It just what are we doing? You know, like why are we behind Russia? Because Russians have a, they don't start wrestling when they're five. They start when they're probably 11 or 12 after they've done their gymnastics curriculum. And so they identify those freak athletes, they get them into a probably a middle school type club, even fifth grade, maybe what would be for us. And then they have one coach in a club that takes them all the way until they're done wrestling. And so if they go to the Olympics or to the world championships or to the Russian nationals or the Asian finals, like from what I've heard, that is their guy. Okay. And so they have elite-level coaches in their youth clubs. They're elite, like they can coach, they can sit in your corner at a world U-15 event. And uh, so we don't do that in America. We we have our local dads or and I'm not dispelling that, I'm just saying that's the way it is. We just don't, we have such a high volume of people, and we try wrestling uh where they are identified for it and they get really serious about it when they get into it. It's not recreational at all, you know, in Europe. Uh we we try a lot of stuff here, and that's great, you know. Even if you wrestle for three years as a youth, you can say you were a wrestler, but we have a high burnout, and uh we wrestle a lot of competitions, so you identify that you're not very good early and you decide you're gonna be done. Whereas over there, you know, everything, every competition they do is something, you know, it's something big. So, you know, you go and you compete and you fix it, and you know, you might wait a little while. Like we have a lot of opportunities to, and that's good for us, like it's a lot of wrestling, there's a lot of stuff. Uh, but going back to how that translates to high school and youth, like you want to do things in the off season outside of your season that are consistent to what in the coaches and being involved, and you know what they're training on so that you can carry that through and fix weaknesses and uh exploit their strengths and get really good at them. Um common terminology. There's you know, there's so many, there's so many things in wrestling, but there's very few positions that are important. You know, there's very few, like be good at this, this, this, this, this, that's it. Like five things. If you can win in that position uh and have a lot of options to win that position, you're gonna be good. And so uh I think I think that's the big thing why I say identify uh the right camp for you. And for some, for some coaches, just you know, like there's the Malachek camps that are awesome because you can have some fun there and you can go, but you're gonna learn a lot of stuff, but you better pick out the things you really like and uh and then really you know dive into them at some point quickly after that camp. Because a week of June wrestling doesn't do diddly poop for you when December rolls around.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Right? It's it's pick up those things and now you gotta train the tar out of them for the next six months until the season starts so that it becomes something that you can use. And so I I think camps can be a huge waste of money um if you don't, you know, uh identify the value. What is it that I want to accomplish? You know, the other thing we did, we can get off of this, but you know, I'm we're gonna talk about the season was about how you get there. Uh the J Rob camps is a perfect example of uh something that was big, late 90s, early 2000s. We had we had like three or four kids just say, Hey, we're gonna do this, we're gonna be tough guys, you know, and and they went out and did it, and every one of them was a state champion, multiple champion. And they it was like that was big. And so that's not a thing anymore. But at the time, uh they believed in it. They did the 28 days, you know, out there, and uh it it it it just kind of it when they came back, they were different people, and then they just you know got really good. So uh that that's not something you can do with a team, but it it started being a thing for like five or six guys. They a couple kids went out, they pulled a couple buddies in, they pulled another one in and they did it, and uh, we were all about it.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

The J-rob camps, man, the stories I heard about those. Well, Jeff, in regards to the season, I do have a question for you about your uh scheduling, but I'm not gonna ask it for you right away. We'll we'll wait till we get to that juncture because we do have a big development this year as opposed to the last five years. And I think you'll know what it is, but we'll wait. Uh starting them off, you guys go to the Howard Manley duels, you give up 19 team points, just uh very impressive performance across six duels. Is there anything? I guess uh if you can talk about Howard Manley or anything like within this first month that you want to touch on, we can roll through.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

No, it was individual matchups. I know the first match we wrestled there was Brady Spranger's uh state quarterfinal match, and he got off the bus and he we had him ready for it. He went out and he really performed well. I think he majored uh that wrestler, and then he had him in the state quarterfinals and he lost to him. You know, it's still like there's reasons you go down there and you you find these guys, and uh, you know, those kids from East Troy and we wrestled them. You have the kids from uh you know McConague. Um, they had their guys that matched up against you know, guys that were gonna have tough matches. And uh so uh Waukeshaw West was there and was ranked, and you know, it's a good program. And you know, we just matched up phenomenal with them where we could win all the matches. So uh early season, get matches. You know, we wanted to get a lot of matches, take 18 kids down, get them all at least two, and most of them get because we have six duels there, so you could you could try some kids out and get ready for big matches that were coming up.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

And I know uh no no JV team this year, reserve squad will say. I know we've talked about that in prior years where if you're bringing a reserve squad, you want to make sure you have all 14 spots filled up. Guys, I'm heading on what could be a controversial question, and I know I'm not pigging on the it's not a big curve, Paul Jeff. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

But controversy, I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

I know you kind of you guys usually I've heard through the grapevine, you guys usually have like 30 to 35 guys in your wrestling room. First of all, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, we had 35 this year.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

And it kind of made me wonder, and it I am big on wrestling having as many numbers as possible. Like the more kids we can get out, the better. I guess when it comes to uh building a championship level team, is there such a thing as having too many numbers? And I'm not saying like cut kids or something, but is it kind of nice that you don't have a room full of 60 guys that you're working with?

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Uh it isn't controversial at all. I think it's um I think I love 60 guys, 60 gals, 60 people, whatever, but there is a standard, okay, of of what it is. So that that is what it is. It's it's we have you know, there's 35 kids, and um some of them, a few of them really struggled this year, but they work their tails off. And so there, I could get a you know, there could be uh 20 more kids that could come out in our school and struggle or be good, but they you know, they're just not willing to commit to that for whatever reason. It's just this is what it is. You put it out there and um there's not a lot of yelling and screaming in the room, like it isn't, like it blows up maybe three times during the year, you know, when you think of 70, 65 practices or whatever there is, and it there just isn't a lot of that it because um this is what it is. It's this is the standard, like this is how we do things. It's it's not what we're doing, it's how we do it. And so this is how you have to do it. And there's not negotiating, we're not negotiating uh how we drill and how we run and how we lift and how we uh you know approach competition and that type of thing. Like it has to be a certain way, and some people say, well, that's you know, it should be more fun, and so you know, you have to balance the fun with uh the reality of you know what what do we want to be? So uh if you want to join something fun, I'm sure there's a lot of things that are more fun. We have a ski team, uh, we have a fishing team, and there's the fishing team is phenomenal. Like they they go out and like I don't want to fish, I it gets too cold on the ice. So that's not my thing. Like there, uh maybe someday then I'm gonna start ice fishing. But um everybody's got interests that are different, and uh everybody's got a thing. And so when there's that standard, the numbers are gonna stay, you know, right here. And and you could say, well, boy, you know, what if you only have uh, you know, 15 kids or 20 kids. Well, then I'm gonna have to make it more fun, right? Then I'm gonna have to, you know, to be able to fill a couple of lineups and absolutely you have to do things that uh are gonna attract some kids into it, but it's still gonna go back to if you want to have success, uh, you have to have a standard of work and commitment and uh, you know, drive and do all those things. And that's where that 35 to 40 number. This was down the year before we had 42, and you know, you're sitting between 35 and 40, and you have to have numbers, like it's huge. You can't uh you can't uh you know have 20 and expect to have sustained year after year assessment. You gotta have in the 30s near 40. But um with that, um having 50 or 60, it just didn't work in our school, like it it wouldn't work. Uh, I always said like I could probably do it. I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but like I could probably, I mean, I'm a FIED teacher, so like I love all the kids in class, like get along with them, and we have a good time, but that's different. And you know, some kids will say to me, like, hey, uh Machek, uh, think I should come out for wrestling. And I'll go, nah, what else do you like to do? You know, and I'll say I'll like they'll they'll look at me like, whoa, and I'm like, well, I mean, it depends, you know, like it's a deep conversation. You're just throwing a you're just you're throwing a big thing at me right there. And you they expect me to go, you know, maybe a younger, more naive me would say, Yeah, you should wrestle, it'll be great. And and then uh, but they're a little shocked, and I'll say, Well, boom, boom, boom. And they're like, Yeah, well, I got a job, and so, you know, can we negotiate nights I practice? Well, game, it ends right there. You know, you that's not what we do. So, um, or you know, sometimes they want to prove me wrong, and then they come out and they're really good. You know, they're they're like I'll take a Bryce Knutson this year. He was a senior, and he came to me in like February of his freshman year, and he said, Hey, uh, I was eating lunch. He walks in with Colin George, both of them, and they both were good wrestlers. And uh, so this is 2024, uh 2023. Yeah, 2023. And so they come in and they're like, hey, we want to join wrestling. And they thought I was gonna say, Yeah, come to practice tonight. I said, Well, we've got two more weeks of the regular season, and then we get into the postseason, so we've got about six weeks to go. So on March 8th, uh, that's a Monday. Come down here, I'll be eating lunch right here. If you want to wrestle, we'll we'll set you up, we'll tell you what you have to do. And they're like, Oh, okay. He turned us down. Well, those two guys showed up on March 8th. I forgot about them. And they come knocking, they come knocking on the door, and uh the rest is history, you know. They they did some spring, they started lifting with the guys, like guys are lifting right now, and they they came in the summer and then they came in their sophomore years, and they were all right, and then their junior year, and then Bryce Knutson. I mean, he won 57 matches his junior and senior year on varsity, uh having you know just one year to to cut his teeth. So he had the right stuff, you know, he had it, but uh he had to be kind of like if well, if you're gonna do it, you know, I'm not gonna just add a number to you right now and you're gonna come out for the last month. You're gonna have to uh we'll do this right. Like let us get our stuff done because we're we're ready to go right now, like we're ready to take off. And I don't want you guys to come in as newbies right now. It wouldn't be good for you, it wouldn't be good for the rest. But if you are you're serious about what you're asking, here's the date, and they were there.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

That's awesome. Love it. That's character right there, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Okay, I forgot where we're on the scope of the season. Jeff, you're just you're you're knocking it out of the park tonight. Perfect timing on that is hopefully the Brewers are knocking it out of the park. Oh they don't hit against the Cardinals just seven minutes ago.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

They don't hit homers, but maybe they're maybe they're uh what do they call them? The uh, you know, they're just kind of woodpeckering it a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Uh 0-0, middle of the first, and we are at uh the husky right now. You guys finish first place, 120 points ahead of Holman. New venue this year, Jeff. So you get the varsity and JV in the same spot.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Yeah, I like that. You know, and then and we won it finally, you know, after uh that's right.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

You broke the broke the Minnesota curse.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Get the Minnesota curse out of there, and and we wanted St. Michael Urville to be there. I mean, I would have really loved that. And there was uh Crown uh uh team from Iowa that was gonna get it. Yeah, it wasn't Crown Dundee.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

It was uh uh uh but Don Bosco was there you go Don Bosco and they uh really really spectacular program.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

So we were like, man, that's that would have been unbelievable. Uh but they didn't. Still a great tournament. Holman Rapids, you know, Nina, and uh you know a lot of good individuals, just great competition. Uh the facility was nice because uh kept it rolling. Uh JVs were over in the other gym and it was bigger for them. So I we added some downtime. I went and I watched, I don't know if I saw all of our kids wrestle over there, but I tried to see everyone wrestle a match and watch our coaches coach and do their thing, and and then you know they were able to come in the gym and watch the finals like they could before, but yeah, it was it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Good experience. Well, Jeff, anything uh for the tournaments or duels between the Husky and uh the holiday tournament you went to?

SPEAKER_00 40:05

No, uh yeah, I mean we had a conference-wise, we were pretty light in the front end. We didn't have Nina in Hortonville until January, and they were two and three. Um, but we went to the Flavin down in uh Illinois, and that was we went there specifically for you know wrestling Holman at Team State. Uh see three teams that were almost identical to Holman and get a um or anybody else. You know, if we were gonna get beat, it was gonna be by a team that just was stacked in the lightweights and and had some good upper weights, but we were pretty good there. And we had good lower weights too, where we could get wins against some teams, but uh the three teams we wrestled there, and that was before um that was right after Christmas. It was like the 28th and 29th of December. So um that was everything that it was cracked up to be. And um, you know, got to see nationally ranked teams and Montini, Joliet Catholic, Marmian Academy, uh, IC Catholic Prep. We wrestled those four schools. We went two and two, and um Providence was there, we didn't see them, but you know, we basically had two matches that we could that we could uh feel good about, and then we were gonna have four uh nasty ones, and uh where we had to get really um you know, state champion caliber type matches. And so, you know, we got our ass kicked in two of them, and we won a close one, and then and we had it, we put an ass kick in on Montini. Some things went bad for them that that round. It was the it was the sixth and final duel. Um, but um we wrestled really well and handled uh probably the adversity and the the grind of that turn and probably a little better. Um so it was a wonderful experience. I think it had a big part of us um getting to where we needed to be at the end. I mean, you can't take a December duel and put it in March and say it's that's gonna be it, but yeah, we needed we needed to get beat. We haven't been beaten in a duel for a while, we haven't wrestled that level of competition in several years. Um so it was time to feel you know the brunt end of a stick and uh feel feel some real national just you know, a team that's kind of sticking it match after match, and there's not much you can do about it. Your kids are like, all right, so okay, you know, we have to learn how to say points like a team like Holman would have been like in some of those teams, it would have been great duels, too. You know, how their lightweights would have matched up against these uh these prep academies, these Catholic academies, uh down in Illinois. They were all fantastic, great coaching, tough.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Well, I didn't ask it, but you answered my question of what drove you to do a holiday tournament this year.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

And yeah, like sometimes you gotta do it. And this was the year where we needed that really, really bad. So it was uh, you know, it was a call in the summer and they had a spot and we took it.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah, you know what's a good term. I mean, you guys losing as a team, yeah. When Liam Crook takes a loss at a tournament, that's you know what?

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah, and he's wrestled, uh he wrestled him uh at uh was either the freestyle national duels or Liam would tell you where it was, and had a had a match and he got kind of beat up by him. But we were, you know, we had a one, we had a um we had a well, we got a three point takedown, so we were up by a couple points and riding with about 50 seconds. To go. And you know, that's pretty good. Liam can put some time on, but he uh he changed us over, got us off of him, got to his feet, cut for one. Okay. We didn't have any stallings on us. It was a pretty good, hard fought battle. And then uh, you know, we got exploded, he just he got to our leg. He hit he hit a leg attack. He hit a little uh probably I would call it a young gun single, you know, kind of came flaring in and cartwheeled his knees and got us. And uh, you know, we we went baseline, kind of sat and he shackled us, took us down, but we had enough time to get one, and uh he just kind of put a hard ride on us those last 15 seconds or so. So that was was good. It was like what he needed to uh dominate, win the, you know, we had a tough quarterfinal match at the Chiefs had against uh Mount Horeb. Like that was a scary one, but like the semis, the finals were he that that kind of and all the way through the state tournament series, like uh just you know, snapped him in. And I really wish he could have finished an undefeated season again. Like, you know, but if there's ever a good loss, that was one of them. Yeah. And he was ranked like sixth in the country, you know, Liam right behind him down there a little bit. So it definitely why I want to win. It would have it would have been a great win for him to jump up him in the rankings for just bragging rights, you know, things like that to be ranked, you know, top five or six in the country at that way, opposed to you know, him being there. So it was just uh it was just kind of a little personal thing, but it was a great match.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Well, Jeff, you you have uh it's a three or four-week period going from Husky to uh the Illinois dual tournament, and then uh cheese. That is that's a grind of a schedule right there, brother.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Yeah, there's three out of four weekends, it's good, but yeah, the thing is, if if you have a good team, it's it's perfect. You know, it's not like all your kids are taking 12 losses. I'll tell you, Andy D. Piazza hit uh he was he wasn't feeling well at the flavin. And uh, I think he went one and four there. We had to pull him out in a match. Uh, we didn't wrestle him against one of the teams, otherwise he would have taken a he would have taken a fifth loss. And it's like, all right, five losses in two days, and you know, he's a two-time placer, and we got the cheese head coming up, and uh it wasn't gonna impact the duel, but he was uh was fighting out there, and and then the cheese head uh is the same thing. He just wasn't uh he just hit some kids that were really good. He probably lost two matches at the cheese head that you'd say, hey Andy, we gotta, you know, these, but he righted the ship and then got to some competition back in states where he could he could do some things and uh you know your confidence gets kind of beat up. That's like I've always said the danger of uh a cheese head tournament is you know, you can uh you can be a state champion and take three losses in a row, and that doesn't happen at any other tournament. Doesn't happen at the NBA tournament, you know, you're you're out after two, so you know, unless you're wrestling for eighth place or semi-slide to six, but they um he it was yeah, it was after the flavin and the cheese that there was one situation like that's and people are like, Oh, I don't feel sorry for Andy DePouse. He's a three-time you know placer, he's he's a good wrestler. And I was like, No, I those are the kids you worry about the most. They're good wrestlers, and um, you know, what does that do for his psyche? And like um he's invests a lot and takes any loss really hard, and now you lose four four at the Chiefs and you lose eight matches in two back-to-back tournaments. Um, I think I'd have eight losses all year. And now here you are in the middle of the season, and you've already got that. But that was uh, you know, he came out of it well.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah, that's a good point. Sometimes kids they're they're not used to losing that much skills at that level. Uh yeah. Definitely did come out of it all right. Going to the cheese head, Jeff. How would you how would you rate your guys' cheese head performance? Because I know you guys got ninth as or sorry, 10th as a team, but that's uh I feel like with the cheese head, you get one or two bad spots in a bracket, and that can really swing team point. So I'm not gonna just base your performance off of where you place. Also, I'd love to have a team that places top 10 at the cheese head. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Um one one just uh really uh stupid goal every year is to say, guys, let's be the top Wisconsin team at the cheese head. Let's start with that. Okay, and it's you know, it doesn't always happen, but it's like, hey, let's let's finish amongst because in the end you're judged by um how you do in in your state tournament, right? There's no teams that are outside our borders that are competing at the state tournament. Um, I'd rather win a state title than a cheese head title. Uh, we do not have any signs in our school. Um yeah, we'll throw a cheese head top four or five trophy in our trophy case. Uh we won it once, not the tournament it is today. Took third, took fourth, took, you know, we have a bunch of trophies. But um other than that, like we have our state, state placers on the wall, our state champions on the wall, our state teams on the wall. You know, we list our qualifying teams, uh, but there's nothing, there's nothing for the cheese head or any other tournament. And you could go win a fantastic tournament, and and uh it's just a step along the way. So um that, you know, one thing is we we were able to accomplish that. Uh um we had it was a weird, weird year. Like after I saw the seeds come out, I'm talking to our our coaches, and we're like, yeah, how do we get you know six guys into the top six like we had last year? Or how like this is so we we lost Peyton Lee and Nikki Jenkins. Peyton was third, and Nikki was fourth or sixth or something. He lost his place match last year, but we still have all the other guys back, and some other guys should make up those points. You'd think, you know, we were fourth the year before. We should be in the trophy hunt for the top six, but we had a hard time getting guys into the top eight, into the top 16. Like you have to get into the top 16, winning that first match. You have to win, you know, basically you want to get, you know, 10, 11, 12 guys into that top 16, and then push half of them into the top eight, and then push a number of those guys into the top six where they're wrestling in the three-ring circus on Saturday night. So there's levels of it. And as when I'm looking at our opening round matchups, it's gonna top 16. It's like we're gonna have to upset uh you know, four kids just to get half our team into the top 16. And we won a, I think we won one. I think Brick Ritchie won one of those tough ones, got in there, but it was just the guys that uh had the big matchups and everybody else. They took a they took a you know pretty hard kick in. And then, you know, now they're wrestling for uh 17th through 30, whatever place, and they get wins there, you know, but they're not scoring any points for the team. So there was a little quirky scoring, like firepower is so big at the cheese head. It's so big. You know, you have to you gotta come in. And I look at the team that won it from Missouri, they uh were nowhere to be uh found last year, and I don't know if they had guys out, but they come in and they win it this year over Southeast. Yeah, they they they were unbelievable. They were so tough. But uh, I don't know if they I really didn't look at last year's lineup postseason last year, and then what they had at the Chiefs at this year to see, okay, these, you know, how many kids jumped up a level, new kids, transfers, eighth graders, guys that were hurt the year before, um, whatever the case may be. But they historically made probably the biggest jump. You know, Danny Pieper uh and his crew came up and uh were a good team when they came that first year, two years ago, but they were the they were the they were the class of the tournament then in one year. So that was phenomenal. And uh like Montini, uh Jolia Catholic, two teams we beat in duels at the flavon, they just kicked our tail. They uh their firepower was just uh too much for us at the cheese at duel. Yeah, we were fine. You know, we can go with them, but uh they exposed us a little bit there. So it was rough overall, though. It was it was okay. You know, it was it was an okay tournament. We didn't have Colin DeGroot available there, uh, would have scored some points. Nehemiah was out of the tournament after the quarters, so you know he slid down to eighth place or something in that bracket. He was uh a placer the year, but I think he was fourth. So um lost to a kid from Montini and had an injury uh that he beat the week before. So there were we could there were some things that we needed to be really good in all those other spots to probably push up into the top eight, but that was probably as high as we were gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

I'm just looking at uh box scores right now. Hickman won it without any finalists. That's I forgot about that, Steve. Uh that's right.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

I didn't know that. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

But some thirds, fifths, you know, you get oh everyone, so like all ten of their wrestlers did place top ten.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

So that's amazing. Yeah, they had 10 guys there, yeah. Yeah, and you know, that's you can do that, like, well, you only had 10 guys, yeah. But take any team there and pick their top ten guys, and it's not going to change the team score much because you just don't score many points, and the all you're scoring is match points, you're not getting any placement points, you know. And you say, well, a pin is still worth two if you get three pins on that on that top bracket, that's six points. Yeah, but it takes 600 to win the tournament. So what the hell is six points doing for you?

SPEAKER_01 54:25

On this on the same weekend as the cheese head, I know you don't coach these guys every tournament, Jeff, but it was the WWA uh JV State qualifier, and then two weeks following was the JV State tournament. And I'm sure people every year wonder, oh wow, like where are these Kakana guys coming out of the woodwork? Well, if you look at the prior years at JV State Finals, you'll see a lot of names that are having success at the varsity level the next year.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Yeah, it's been a big thing since 2015, whenever that started. I mean, I think it's good. I think the teams that take advantage of it, they show up, they show up there and um, you know, all of our lineup um can start with Nehemiah as a freshman, was second there as a freshman at 215, and Zach Winnikins was there. Um, I don't even know what his if he placed or what his highest placement was. Brady Sprangers was a freshman state champ there. Um Colin DeGroot, I think, was a freshman state champ there. Um Liam never wrestled there. He was varsity, obviously, all the years. Um but you can, you know, and Andy didn't wrestle there, but all the other guys, you know, they place there pretty high, scored points, they go through that process. And that's uh the final placement matches there are they're really good wrestlers. Like they're kids that are a collection of talent around the state that are stuck behind somebody. And so uh, you know, we had a really good performance in the upper weights this year, uh winning uh you know, winning some championships. So, you know, that's where we needed guys to show, and and they're gonna they're gonna fill right in this year where we really need it.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Good to know. Good to know. Uh I'm sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

It's been uh that was a poor silence, I mean. I feel like I'm just sitting here listening, but I am totally into this guy's.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

You just have me like drawing in and then like you get done done on my own. I still got a show and I have to.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

We can jump up to the go to Badger, we can go to Pulaski, or what do you what do you want to hit?

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Whatever, yeah. How do you Jeff? This is your show. How do you want to attack it? We got you guys had a busy January in terms of event numbers. So however you want to attack the regular season, otherwise we can we can hit up the postseason now if you want.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

We can hit up the postseason. I mean, Plaski was good. You know, they it it was the sectional all over again. You know, and you have Denmark there who made it the state, and Coleman, who was in the state final. It was just a great tournament, and we were healthy and we're getting ready to go win it. So um we had a really good tournament there, and we did the Badger Scramble. That's a tournament where we take 14 uh weight classes. We took probably 20, you know, where they had room to fill weights. And again, those guys that are doing well at the um, you know, at JV, or maybe they're not even there. Maybe we like a guy like Bryce Knutson, we did not wrestle at JV State. He didn't wrestle at the cheese head. He went as a senior, he said, well, you know, Hunter got me in a practice match, so he's got the cheese head, and uh was they're really close. And so then uh I I just want to wrestle. I need to get ready. You know, I want to be the guy at the end of the year. So what do you need to do? Well, go to go to the JV regionals, do that. He went and he won that. And then, but then Hunter got hurt, you know, at the Badger Scramble. They were wrestling, they wrestled each other there, so he was going to be out for a while. So now we we pulled Bryce out of the JV State tournament. And you know, you're you're kind of putting kids in and putting them kids out, and uh the badger scramble is great, you know, to see uh Devin Cas go out and beat some good kids at a heavyweight, and Ronnie Ramadani, you know, at 144, uh winning some matches, and uh Lathan Hurst, you know, a one a 157-pounder, you know, who's 65. You know, he filled in for Colin when he was out. So he's he's performing really well and doing some good things. So I I probably get more excited. I get just as excited as I I do of our kids that go and you know wrestle uh in the finals and you know and take take first at there. I just seeing a kid take third or fifth, that's a backup there, and beating guys that, you know, maybe they're not beating uh the best kids in the bracket, but they're beating kids with, you know, 25, 30 wins. Um and they're they're showing that, okay, I'm I can be placed into our lineup and I can uh I can do some things, or I can wrestle with uh this kid and go six minutes with them. So uh that's a fun tournament too. And then we get into the conference and we had a great tournament there. Um again, you got our our conference was kind of it was weird this year. Like we had great top end, you know, three-ranked teams. And then you got a team like Kimberly who's full and just has a lot of good athletes. Um, and then the bottom end, uh, the Appleton schools are are struggling. Um not as much for numbers, but just with um with with the elite kids. So um, it was a year where it was a you know, three teams and just a lot of kids in the finals for Kakana and Hortonville and and Nina had a lot of guys too. So, you know, it becomes kind of a a thing there where we're battling it out and just wrestling for individual stuff, and we just had an epic performance. So that gets you ready for the sectional the next week. And we're seeing all these guys. I'm I'm glad we didn't have a regional because now you're just adding another match against Declan and Shepard and Butsky and you know those guys, and you know, the guys from Kimberly that you have tough matches with. You're just wrestling unnecessary matches. We dueled all those teams in January. Now we're at the conference tournament in Hortonville. We're seeing them at Plaskey. It's it's just you know, you don't want to wrestle a guy eight times in a year, you know, seven is enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

Yeah. Right, seven's enough. Well, we can teak, we can jump to the tournament where we spent uh the most time in one building with with Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Well, before we attack the postseason, uh Steve, you you may have missed your cue during maybe our longest bout of silence on the podcast. You want to do some trivia?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

No, I take a moment. Why don't we um nah? Let's do it at the end. I like trivia at the end. That'll that'll work. Once we get done with Team State, we can we can uh end off with something fun. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

So, Jeff, it does sound like you bring up, you know, one less match against kids that you just otherwise wrestle again. Uh thoughts on the new postseason this year.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

Yeah, um, you know, some things gotta be fixed, but it's it's good because of the repetitiveness of seeing guys. I think the dual, you know, like when it all came out, I went, okay, well, there's gonna be some uh some things. Uh, and then everything kind of evolves over time, so it's gonna have to happen a few years, and then and then we'll see where it is. But overall, for the first year, it it went about as expected. The there was the quirky situations, and you know, like our team sectional, let's go to team. You got a lot of teams, resting guys, giving duels. Um, that was you know, against us, and they're you know, like Bayport, they're they're just doing the right thing. Like if um they're they're trying to get their team, they're trying to be smart about. We got a sectional that we just wrestled. We got state coming up in the coal center on a Thursday, and this is a Saturday, and it's like, you know, those seeds came out. So they're uh this is something that never any of us adult coaches have never had to psychologically uh you know put ourselves through. Um it was simple back then. You wrestled this, you wrestled. There was no team. So now we're doing this team thing and uh going and wrestling these three, possibly four duels that are high stakes to qualify our team as a wild card. And so um yeah, it's there's a lot going on there. Like we we simplified some things, but you don't really ever simplify things. You you add some complication that makes it uh tougher on kids. So um, you know, in a perfect world, you've just got six really good teams that are all fighting to win a sectional championship. And it's I think in basketball and baseball for sure, like you can be great on one day and do it. But in in wrestling, you know, it's like you got your 14 guys, and we got our 14 guys, and this is gonna be like we can upset you in a match, but no, we got to win eight matches. And so, you know, that's not very realistic all the time. So uh, especially if you can you can qualify for team sectionals uh with nine kids. You know, you can score enough points at your regional with seven or eight kids and be a top six team, and then you gotta go duel a team that's got 14, and you know, five of them are really good, and and then you're forfeiting four more, so that's nine. So how are you gonna win that duel? You know, uh, I don't think other sports face that that complication. Um, you know, you're happy to put five guys on the basketball floor against five other guys, and hopefully you can get your best player in foul trouble, and then uh, you know, we get hot and start popping some threes and they go cold and and then hey, here we go. You know, you see that stuff happen. So I don't know, you know, like um I'll I'll work ahead. I'll just speak speak my head a little bit. Like, um is there was there was there a team, you know, we're trying to build community excitement with the team sectionals, but um, was there teams that you know considered opting out? You know, it's like, well, we're gonna have all these kids, we gotta make weight. It's just the coward's way of uh approaching things, you know, like, well, why would you do that? Well, you're not coaching, you don't get it, and you don't know it. Like every coach has to do what's best for their kids. So um that's uh that's a you know, I'd say that's making a bold statement right there. But are there teams that are thinking, you know, this Saturday is a, you know, we'd be better off uh doing this, this, and then going to making wait and first team we got to wrestle is this team. It's just it's a little bit of a wrestling situation, but we got to build this, you know, right? Like this is something that has to, you gotta give it a few years, and hopefully um, you know, it becomes what we what we see it to be, yeah, and not uh something that's uh you know really hard for teams to feel like they have a chance in there because a dual a dual team, you know what the you know who the good dual teams are, okay? And so now we're qualified. For a dual tournament with a big tournament, 16-team tournament, individual scoring performance. And so you don't always get uh the best dual teams there. And and even if you do, then you have this disparity in lineups that are different than other sports. So the perfect world, everybody's got all 14, everybody's got tanks, you know, and everybody's got guys that are willing to fight. And then it, you know, you have a hell of a battle. And our sectional was was pretty good, like that way. Like those all the 10 Luxembourg, Bayport, Plaskey, Hortonville, Nina, and ourselves, like those guys could uh they can go compete with anybody. So like I'm I know what it was, but even then, guys are resting guys, you know, trying to do what's best. You know, if it can happen at ours, what's it doing, you know, to some of the other sectionals too? Um, but I've been we've been talking about this for years, the super sectional and a bigger dual tournament uh for years. So, you know, here it is. We've got it. We've gotta build it and push it forward now.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

For individual sectionals, coaching wise, did you did you feel like there is there's more a sense of urgency coming out of the gate now, given that there's no there's no regional that you can maybe lose a match and be like, oh what that like we'll be fine and get the second one.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Are you talking especially that round one team?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Is that what you mean? Yes, yeah, because you lose round one, you're donezo.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Yep, yeah. I mean, you lose round one of the regional in the past, you were put yourself in a tough spot. You had to hope your guy run it, and then you could sneak back and take fourth and get to the sectional. So, you know, that's an eight-one matchup usually or a two-seven, and you didn't see many of those, but they happened. Um, but yeah, it was about the same. You had to win that first match to get in, and then then you need some help, you know, along the way. We had a lot of wrestle backs. Um the the quirky situation is when a kid is, you know, um wrestling in the final and he has no chance to wrestle back because both of the guys that, you know, like there's that situation where you did not have a chance uh for a wrestle back, or you were gonna get a wrestle back no matter what I meant. Like you were gonna get a wrestle back. Uh in the past, you know, if you lost a wrestle back, but the guy you beat the semis won third, you were you were going. And then we had a few situations where we were we were gonna get a wrestle back, or kids were gonna get a wrestle back no matter what, because um the guy that was wrestling for third, you know, and so you had you had that uh yeah, that you didn't wrestle them.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

And so there was definitely a learning period that Steve and I figured out when we were doing the finals, where it's like, oh, this is interesting. Like this kid wins their third place match. Like the guy that they lost to like lost on the other side of the console. Like, so this kid needs to win, and he's guaranteed a shot at a second place match. Like right, there's so many more permutations of things that could happen that uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

I think in our sectional though, I'd look back like the kids all the top two qualifiers, they earned it that day. Like it like it always has been like they earned it on that day. You know, they they uh they won the match they needed to win and they wanted to square up head to head. That doesn't mean there wasn't an upset, you know, but that that always that always is possible. That's what means competition great. But you know, it you get the two you took you at 16 guys in a bracket or at least 16 spots, and these two guys that went, there's no argument there.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

Jeff, for you guys, you guys had a well by by regular standards, a pretty good day. Seven was it seven qualifiers. Sorry. Eight qualifiers, I think, as every team could say through sectionals that some things went right, some things probably didn't go ideal. Uh yeah, that's a that's the roller coaster that is individual sectionals. I think that is one thing that did not change from the postseason changing is it is a gut-wrenching day.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Yeah, it is, but in that sectional with you know five other highly ranked teams in the state, you know, if you can get eight, that means you know, the things that you expected to happen happened. You know, if you can get nine or ten, you know, then uh, you know, then it then it was even uh you know, you probably had to win a match against a former qualifier placer with somebody on your roster that wasn't that. So we uh we had a good day overall. Like that was a better sectional. Like the year before we came out a little bruised and beaten, and and this year we felt a little better about it. Of course, you know, you're always there's always one guy that you're like, well, that we had a shot at that weight. Um, but you know, it was very, very, very little this year.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

I would guess the one on your team, but I think we're both thinking the same one, so we won't say it. Yeah, yeah. All right, yeah. Uh otherwise, fellas, glad we got to hang out for 13 hours in the same gym. Yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

Yeah, that'll get fixed.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

Yeah, I'm guessing I know this year they wanted three match for everyone because it was kind of like you need a control subject to see how things go. And we just happen to be on the extreme end of that control. So I'm guessing sectional B next year will probably have four mats at the very least. So yeah. Good day of wrestling. And you know, now that everything's all said and done, we got to be a part of it, and now we got a story to tell people going forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

Yep, it was yeah, everybody had to learn it. So now we we know how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Going on to individual state, uh, real quick, Cardinals are up 1-0 in the bottom of the third. Uh make us through individual state, Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:15

Yeah, it's good uh real good tournament. Um you know, you get you get some you get some, you know, this love love the fact that it's seated. People complain about the seating. Um I think if if you're there's gonna be adjustment to seating, I think it has to be um head to head is more important than you know, previous year state qualifiers because uh I think it's you know, if you're going to the state tournament and you're placing your your winning matches there, you know, um, that says a lot more than just qualifying. Uh, but a state qualifier is a state qualifier. But it, you know, I think there were some situations where there were some head-to-head wins and you're sitting behind somebody uh because they went to state the year before, you know, and and that's that's all uh you know that's circumstantial. Like I know we get guys to state some years that it's like, well, yeah, then you've got this unbelievable wrestler that doesn't make it to state because of the two guys that are wrestling in the state finals uh at that weight, or a first and a third, or something like that. It's um you know, no two sectionals are the same at each weight. Like there's some geographical uh anomalies that happen, and it could be anywhere. Uh but um, you know, a little bit more, a little bit more uh, you know, it's gotta probably how however it's the head-to-head, I think, is something that's gotta be looked at. You know, put some like what's more important than head-to-head?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

Nothing. That's why they wrestle the matches.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

Yeah, and then our kids, um, you know, we had we had good seeds. I'm talking on at the state in general. Um like we had bad seeds or things like that. Um, we we we won uh you know some some matches that were toss-ups. Uh we lost some that were toss-ups. You go 50-50 in those, you're you don't feel too bad about it. Like if you have four matches on Thursday night that these are toss-ups and you win two of them, you take it. Uh if you win all four of them, you know, that's that happens sometimes. But uh then there's times where you just you lose three of four or all four, and it's just uh uh it's a gut, you know. Uh where you're outmatched, you're outmatched, and you just want to see a performance and you want to see a kid go out and uh and uh fight hard and and uh if he comes up short, he comes up short. But um, I think we did well in the toss-ups. You know, we we pretty much split over the weekend and then uh you know got all of our guys uh seven out of eight on the metal stand, and and that's a good that's always good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:08

I know uh in the past years you've ran through the the gambit of kids at state. I just want to say beforehand, uh they probably one of my favorite Kakona results at state to see Zach Winnakins end up on the podium, man. Like that is uh the climb that he's made during his career is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

Yeah, he had a really good tournament and uh just kept getting better and better. And I think Liam gets a lot of credit for that. Um, just being a guy that wrestled him a lot and was in his corner a lot and yelled at him a lot, and and um Zach listened to him, and uh so yeah, he just needed the confidence, you know, in a in a few things that he did really well. And, you know, just going back, you know, we mentioned Liam winning his third state title and having a tremendous career and um just relaxed. And even though you've got a common opponent that you had success against in uh eighty young kid that's gonna, he'll have his time, uh, you still have to go out and do it because coaches, you know, all the Bayport guys, they're great coaches. So everybody can make adjustments and and and try to get it to the deep waters of a match and and slow things down. And it was just like the takedown at the end of the first period, you know, just getting up three to nothing, you know, opposed to zero, zero first, he gets away, or he, you know, something happens. So now as you as the clock ticks and that match is uh a score away from winning, you know, things start to tighten up and confidence builds. So, you know, we were able to get that takedown at the end of the first to go up three, nothing. Okay, now you know you can start start relaxing and putting points on. So uh he just had a phenomenal career. You know, we had team state the week after which he was fully invested in, but we've had a lot of kids, you know, in that situation where you know you're you're going out and you're doing that, and uh you're not really you can't really care about the next week. Like everything is this is uh it's your legacy, and uh he handled it really well.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

Yeah, Liam uh been fun watching him the last four years and an individual career with a third state title, other coconut results, uh D Piazza, fifth place, uh Perry Bear, the little tornado at 132 qualifier at Jackson Thorpe, sixth, the De Groot fourth, Sprangers fifth, and uh Nehemiah Lendabe at third place finish.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

Well, Times Yeah, he I think he was sixth, fourth, and third. So he he never got what he wanted, but I'm really proud of him for always being there and uh you know maximizing um maximizing his ability and and bumping up a year every year and um had good matches with all the guys in the brackets over the years, and it never shook out, but he um you know three medals at the state tournament. You know, we've never had a heavyweight. Keaton won a couple state titles, Dave and won a state title. We've had other kids in the finals at heavyweight, guys that were ranked high. But he's you know, just Mr. Consistency as a young kid, sophomore year, new kid on the block, and and he just uh he took that step every year.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Nice Steve.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:36

Yeah, I was just gonna add in, and I guess this would be a uh a trivia question for uh for coach because Teague, I know you know the answer to it already. Um Jeff, I'm very confident you're gonna be able to get two-thirds of it. Can you get the third part of it? There are three Wisconsin high school state wrestlers that have seven titles, obviously, four individual, or I'm sorry, uh combined with team state and individual state. Two of them are on your team. Can you name the third one? So obviously Liam Crook, Grayson, Grayson Grayson, and who is the uh who is the third one? And you gotta dig way back in the way back machine for this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

So is it rapids?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

No. Ellsworth. Nope. Way, way more back, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

Okay, so in your coaching career. Okay, so it was team duels.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:40

He is currently a head coach.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:42

Mineral point, Curtis Fiedler?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:45

No. No, Curtis only won two individual state titles. I just want to say that in the hope that Curtis had that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:58

He was uh, yeah, no, give me one last hint. He uh brought his team to the his team's first ever uh as a coach trip to Team State this year.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

You're on the right track with the D3 guy. And I guess another hint I'll give.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

Um yeah, the name just escaped me now.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:23

Seven titles, four of them individual. So he was a four-timer.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

Yeah, there's like 30 some of those guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

Yeah, I I think you might pinch yourself for this one, Jeff, because it was early in your career, and this team was like a national powerhouse. I'm talking about Athens wrestler Craig Underwood.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:46

Okay, so he so he won the four, and then Athens won three team state titles. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's a legend right there. That's a legend name.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:00

Yeah. Steve Oles had his freshman year, he didn't win a team title. Is that what it was? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:08

That would have been that would have been your senior year.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:12

He was a freshman, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:13

No, he was a freshman. Uh he was a freshman my juniors. So yeah, 92 was he was uh um they did not win him. Remember, they got upset by Riverdale. That's what it was. Yeah, he would have been a uh he would have been a four for four.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:27

Oh, that was that's still the the year they did individual score in the field. That was the last year they did individual score.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:34

No, 92 was team state. Um they they lost. Yeah, we don't have to go down the rabbit hole. This uh this guess, but yeah. They got upset. Because that's the year they were nationally ranked, and then they got upset at team state. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

All right. All right, Jeff. Sorry to take away from the Kakana airtime there, but you know, sometimes you gotta go down the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:56

Can't believe it I didn't get that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:01

It's it's all good. Uh you know, you're a hard man to stump, Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:05

So I'm pumped, Jeff. You're gonna like the one. I I have one, and obviously uh I had to dig back to my Kakana source for this one, but he gave me a good one, and we're gonna stump Teague at the end of the show. So I'm get ready for this.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

Oh Lord. All right, so individual state. Anything else to wrap up individual before we go to team state?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

Nope, great. Brady Springers, too, getting him, getting him on the stand. You know, he's one thing or another, so that was good. And Colin, good tournament, good career. You know, all of them. Andy's got a chance to get four medals, get what he wants next year. So kids did great.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

So, Jeff, without talking about wrestling results, quick, how was your lacrosse team state experience?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:53

Um, yeah, it was fine. I liked the room. Um, didn't like not being able to warm up on the mats. Um, they got to change that. I mean, I don't know, it might never get changed for whatever reason. It's just, you know, I'm a I love baseball. If you don't let me go take some ground balls or I like basketball, you gotta let me see the backdrop and take some shots. I know we're talking different. I'm Matt's and Matt, but you know, part of the pageantry of uh warming up at the individual state tournament is you know the spectacle of uh the kids out there. You get to warm up in front of the crowd. And yeah, you know, you say warm-ups are overrated, probably a little bit, but you know, go out there and be in the arena and you know, the kicker's gonna go out and take some kicks and see how the wind is going. And I just it's just kind of weird. You just trade the guys out and have them wrestle without going in the venue. So finding a way to make that happen. Um, I know there was a time thing with you know the second round of duels not having enough time to come in and get a 15-20-minute warm-up or whatever, you know, there's some logistics to that. So, but you know, kind of figure that out. Um kids, uh you know, I'll uh you know, I put most of these in the in my comments. You know, WIE does a survey after what you did, you know, mostly positive, you know, just certain things for the kids. It's uh, you know, the march of the championship teams just standing too long. And I know you've we me and you talked about that. Just things, you know, like this is this is the logistics of a new facility and having new entertainment for the fans and the pageantry of the drum, the drum uh, the drum core going out there and and selling lacrosse and you got to play the video of of uh how great lacrosse is. You know, if it is if it's great, you know, you don't have to sell it, it'll be great. Just don't make the kids stand too long uh for your for your uh promotion of it. This is still about the kids. So uh get them, you know, like if you're standing in the tunnel for uh 40 minutes and then you gotta go wrestle. I don't know on what planet that's a good thing. Like who says that's a good thing? Well, you know, take it for the team. Uh no, those uh 113 pounders, uh we gotta we gotta get them ready to wrestle. So that's where we started. Um, you know, well, everybody's saying, yeah, but it's about the kids, it's not about equality, you know, it's about the kids. So um the whole facility, though it's good space, you know, um, as it gets bigger, and I don't know, like now you're gonna put eight teams when you get the gals there next year. So that could get I don't know if like there was a numbers problem. I thought everybody fit there great, but now if you uh you add you add more stuff, um there's that. But I think it's big enough. So in overall, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:52

We'll see uh we'll see how it shakes out next year. Uh I'm with you. You know, first year stuff. There's uh some good things, some things that could be improved upon, and yeah. And yeah, I did I did let my voice be heard to the powers that be about it already, Jeff. So don't worry.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:10

I was like, Yeah, I mean the only thing you can't you can't fix is geography, you know. I don't I don't like it. Look, I have nothing against lacrosse, it's a wonderful city, great wrestling. It's just in the wrong spot, you know. It's yeah, it's not where it should be. You know, we can't take lacrosse and move it in that arena into the middle where it should be in Madison, but you know, I'm I'm just one voice, so who cares?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

All right, we care, Jeff. We care. Not enough. I yeah, you know what, yeah, as the guy that lived 20 minutes away from the lacrosse center, and uh yeah, Jeff's right, we're Jeff's right on that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:59

People said, hey, if it was in the rest center up 20 minutes from my house, and I said, No freaking way. I don't want it at the rest center beautiful facility, newer than the lacrosse. You know, that's very nice. Girls' basketball, awesome. I don't want it there. I don't want it. Why would I why would I want it in Green Bay? You know, it's it's way over by us. Why make all the teams travel there? It's not Madison.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:21

If we want it true center, we gotta build like a lacrosse center-esque building in Pittsville, Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:30

Well, there you go. You know, at every state tournament I went to in the last five years, you could go and buy a a Coca-Cola or whatever their products were in the vending, the vending. Uh yeah, you'd buy a$7 coke, you know, three quarters full of ice, fountain drink, and then you got a nice uh commemorative tumbler from the WIA, and it said uh, you know, it had Madison and it had the capital on that tumbler, you know, whether it be popcorn or some ice cream or a seven dollar Coca Cola. And it would say uh the championship city on it. And it had the capital on it, championship city with a WIA logo. And I'd save those tumblers and run them through the dishwasher and have an iced tea in the summer when I'm and I just wonder what happened to that. Like, oh, it's it's the championship city. Okay. So much for that. Follow the mighty dollar.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:23

We we got a lot of championship cities now.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:26

If you think across all basketball and football are just not stupid enough to do that, they're getting all the fans.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:34

Yeah. Steve, I'm sorry, but with your chair, I I'm just thinking of Dr. Evil.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:42

So Jeff, I probably should have said this before I got on the phone. Uh about two and a half weeks ago, I got a new hip.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:48

So uh I'm you text that. How's that going?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:52

Yeah, it's going good. So I'm trying I have a this desk that moves up and down, and uh rather than sit if I sit in one location too long, my hip gets a little tight. So I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:00

Here's such a young, young sprite in-shaped guy. Did you uh melt cows when you were younger?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:07

Uh I I did melt cows when I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:09

Yeah, you know, that's a lot of squatting. And he leg rode too much, and it was like football and lifting and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:19

Yeah. But nonbionic, so we're all good. We're all good. Run Redhawks. Let's get off my hip. Let's get the Red Hawks. Great segue.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:32

Or the or the Red Dogs, as I call them. The Red Dogs. I don't know why. All right, Jay. Yeah, we can go duel by duel, Jeff. However in-depth you want to get in on each one. I uh I have more questions. I I don't even know if I'll have questions for the last duel because I don't know, it's just wrestled pretty straight up. But let's start with Milton. Take it away, Mr. Machik.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:54

Um, yeah, I mean they have I mean Pat always finds a way, right? Like he I've known him for quite a while now, and um they had a great sectional, got in. Uh as a dual team, you know, there you go. Like he would have said, well, you know, we had some spots, but you know, you capitalize on what you have, and obviously did a great job with matchups and you know, getting guys in the right spots and finding a way to get down there. And then they just got, I mean, they're now they're on that radar. This isn't a team that uh is gonna be uh, you know, well, they had a you know, they had a a sectional they could qualify, but now somebody else is no, they're they're on the cum. And so they've got the young guys, they got the state champs, they've got some eighth graders. I know who they are. And uh, you know, it's always been a great culture there, you know, going back to Johnson and you know, the team with Josh Wagner that took Rapids Legs uh wrestling town. And so uh they're gonna be now a team that's gonna have to be reckoned with um in the coming years, just like they they always are, you know, they might take a little thing, but now here they're on the cum. So um, you know, we we felt comfortable with the duel, obviously. And uh, but it was just getting in and you know, getting that match done and um having our kids go out and perform, just wrestle really, really well. And if we felt if we wrestled really well, you know, we'd be we'd be moving on to the next morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:34

The guys went 53 to 22, and then you take on a brown deer, Mesmer, Shorewood, a Saturday morning. Oh, I guess I can ask you this, Jeff. You have a different schedule this year at Team State. Did that change the way you guys went about anything at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:50

I always liked the two duels on uh on Friday and the one on Saturday, and we were spoiled in D1. It really wasn't fair, it was just really nice for our kids, and so I wasn't gonna complain about it. But um again, if we can get eight mats somewhere in Madison, you know, it it was the four mats, you know, is what it was. I mean, that was the downfall at the field house. Obviously, it was crowded, and uh we um we could get up, you know, when you made the finals in D1, so you win two matches on Friday, and then you got up and you know, you did your kids were at weight and you left the hotel and you went to uh the the field house, and the D two and three teams were there for semis, and they would weigh in at nine o'clock, and then the team you were wrestling in the finals, you were wait, wait till they were done, and then you would weigh in side by side after they were done and they could get warming up uh for their semi. But then, you know, we weighed in and then we'd get back on the bus and we'd go back to the hotel or to a diner somewhere and we had breakfast. And we'd go back like last few years, we'd go back to the hotel, and our our athletic director had a he'd have a special room set up with bacon and eggs. And it was the one time, it was the one time where we were the kings of our domain. I told this to Mel, it was the one time where we were the kings of our domain, where we we stepped out of wrestlership and became a volleyball, soccer, basketball, football uh type of player, where as the team, you were gonna wrestle in a big match and you had a team meal. Okay, and we weren't wrestling, it was nine o'clock, we're at three and six hours. We were gonna wrestle uh the biggest match of our season, and in some cases of their life up to that point. And so it was like, you know, our basketball team every Thursday night after practice, if they got a Friday night game, every Thursday, they go to one of the players' houses and their parents host a meal. Our football team every Thursday night, all the parents come to the school, they get Phenoble's chicken, they get Chipotle this. Well, probably not that. It's not going to play well, or they bring in something and they have a meal in the commons on Thursday night. And uh, you know, they do that and uh and then they go and you know, our softball the same way. And it's like wrestling, that's just it's never a thing we do. Everybody's huddled in a corner, sitting on the floor, eating applesauce and a PVJ and having some pediolite, or uh, you know, just they have their meal, or maybe they got some pasta and chicken, some fruit. And that was the one time where uh we sat and we had like a breakfast. And our kids would not sit there and gourd themselves and eat themselves like it by that time of the year, you know, they were uh, you know, it was we're gonna eat, go, and then we'd go and practice somewhere, and then we'd come back and check out of the hotel and go and wrestle. And so that was really cool. Like that was that was really like that was the it was the best time of the year. Now, how often uh you're in D1, there's only two teams that get to experience that, where you get up on a Saturday morning and you go and you have breakfast with your team and then you to wrestle for a duel in three o'clock in the afternoon from 106 to heavyweight. It's a very unique, it was very different. But uh, like I said, we felt like we were the we were the kings of our domain at that time. It was just a a quirky weird situation where you weigh in in the morning and you don't have to go warm up and wrestle right away. Um, so you know it was a little more rushed. We had to wrestle that night, and we'd only wrestle one match, so you take advantage of that, get the kids back. A couple coaches stayed back and watched the duels. And we had uh we ordered uh what we ordered, Panda Express, brought in a bunch of stuff for kids to eat uh at the hotel. And our kid, like I said, our kids were like I had in my room when Pearson got back from watching um the other four duels, um, or the other two D1 duels. Uh I said, hey guys, we're down in that room. You get back here. I took all the food out of there because they're gonna probably lock the room. I brought it up in my room. I had I had uh the biggest uh you know tinfoil containers of brown rice, pasta, orange chicken, steak, you know, everything at Panda that when you go by, you go, and I had all this, all this food. And I ended up we ended up dumping it all. Like we could have we could have fed an army with that. But our kids, they all had a plate or two. And uh then the next day we went and weighed in and wrestled against brown deer, and we won that duel. So then we were checked out of the hotel. So usually we keep our hotel, we checked out of it. So we ordered, I think the what's right next to connected to the uh lacrosse center. Is that the radical? Yeah, so we had a room that brought in a pasta bar, and so we just walked over there and uh we had a pasta dinner, but you know, and that was nice. Like we just wanted to make it something, so we didn't get a practice before the finals. Not that you need one, uh, because we had just wrestled, so we were kind of in game mode, and then yeah, we went and had that and then walked over and warmed up and and wrestled. And so it was way different, but we tried to we tried to do some of the things that we did uh you know in previous years that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

Jeff, that was that that might be the most profound explanation I've heard of a team meal ever. And uh that's that was awesome. And it kind of got me a little hungry too. I was that was yeah, now this this podcast brought to you by Panda Express.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:52

Well, or T, I gotta take you when we go visit Montpalur when we I gotta take you and get in some Vanables chicken because uh Jeff threw in a little promo of that. And uh man, you haven't had fried chicken to have vanables fried chicken.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:04

To have a chicken serato.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:10

I knew we should have got a live chicken.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:13

Great rep riot is watching major league season.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:19

Oh, the finals, Teague. The finals.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:24

Let's go circle back. Um man, those kids, and they're there, it's different than Milton, you know, historically. But uh, you know, you've got some great kids on those teams and uh, you know, those coaches, you know, to get there and you want to go out and give them give them all the good matches. But again, we had the matchups we needed to win, eight, nine, ten, eleven matches. You know, you feel comfortable with that. But um, you know, props to them too, uh, to get to the final four of the state tournament. And who was, you know, who was counting them to make that, you know, at that point and winning a big duel on Friday night. You get in there is one thing, and then you you go, and then you're beating the team that won another six-team sectional uh on Friday night. So you're you know, amongst 32 schools, you're the best dual meet team. That's the way you look at it. That's a great accomplishment.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:15

It was it was one of my favorite pollseasons because they were like people were publicly ousting them as like, wow, like they got here through like this type of sectional, or like they're just gonna get wiped at state, or what's up with the team state seeding? And you know, when the I root for good wrestling, Jeff, but I was very happy for the Brown Deer group when they when they won on Friday night.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:37

What were they seated?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:39

Uh they were were they fifth, Steve, and Wanekee fourth? Wanakkee's fourth, correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:45

Yeah. Yep. They were fifth.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:49

Yeah. Uh props to Brown Deer on their semifinal appearance. And uh that brings us to the finals. Jeff, I think this is since your first four-peat run, you guys had a what, you had a two-point duel with Stone at some juncture?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:09

Yeah, there was one. That was 27-29. There were three pretty good ones. Four if when we lost them in semi. So yeah, those were always pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:18

So out of your team state championship years, this was uh one of your closest finals duels. Uh I guess I I mean you brought it up already. You guys went to a dual tournament because there's a couple teams that have Holman-esque lineups there. And what'd you guys do to prepare for Holman throughout the year? And I then you know, take us through it this moment leading all the way to the end of the duel.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:43

Well, we saw him at Eau Claire, saw a lot of matchups there. Um, there were a lot of not a lot, but you know, uh to think of how many. I shouldn't say there were a lot because they changed their lineup, we changed our lineup, and so uh you know, it's yeah, you might have had a couple, but you still saw their kids, you saw common opponents. I uh saw them at state, we saw them there um in a match or two, and then you know, you just you kind of know everybody knew how that duel was gonna play out. You know, it's these weight classes and these, and it's you know, I think we put we put 14 good wrestlers on the mat, as great as they were in the lightweights, we just needed to compete with them. We gotta compete. And uh we felt like you know, bonus points were available later on, you know. Um not not any surprise there, but uh, you know, when we got pinned at 126, that you know, that's that's something we didn't expect. You know, you're not surprised by it because you're talking about a state finalist, a great wrestler, but you have to go out there and make it hard for him uh to to beat you. And we were doing well. And um, you know, he just oh what was it, uh a move I I think uh like a half Nelson, you know, like he just got got tough and uh you know put us away there. So that was you know the third match uh that was really the one that you said, okay, well, they didn't need that. So that's that's adding. So we feel we felt we could compete against them in every match, like give them a match, make them feel you, and then we can get to some matches where you know they're gonna have to run around on the mat a little bit and get the ref involved because there's there's not a lot they can do. So um yeah, and that was that was enough. So that was the one. Um but every match, I don't think there was a you know, there really wasn't an upset anywhere along the line. There were some toss-ups, but those aren't upsets. Those are there's not few upsets, or few toss-ups. There, you know, there weren't a lot where people would say, Well, there's you know, there's six wing matches in this duel, you know, and this team's gotta win five of them, and or this team's gotta win, you know, at least at least two of those. There, there weren't a lot. There was um, you know, very few. So the results, it was coming down to bonus points. Where could you get pins and where could you, you know, prevent majors and things like that. And we just did just enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:28

I viewed the Kakana-Holman dual analysis, whoever I talked to about it, I I viewed that conversation as like how much do you know wrestling or how much do you know these teams? Because there are some people from both sides of the coin, from Pulman and Kakana, that they've been like, you know, I'm feeling like Kakana by 20. And what and I'm like, I'm like, okay, you obviously haven't looked at the duel because that's not what it does. And Jeff, you know I'm a Holman guy, but like I was I'm coming at this with like trying to have no bias. I thought it was gonna be like maybe like a five, 10-point duel, and they're just like you said, there wasn't gonna be a lot of variance within who was beating who per se. It was just it was the bonus point that were the game changers.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like it was it was pretty simple to see, you know, if you followed the teams all year, and then you if you watch the state tournament, you know, they have they're putting guys in on the stand in the lightweights, guys in the finals, and um, we don't have guys at all those weights, you know, like we had Andy there, but um well, we have kids. I you know, Jacob Bailey's just a kid that you know nobody probably really knows about, but he'll, you know, Holman, I believe, was a state qualifier. I felt we could beat him, and if nothing else, they're gonna have to fight to to get three there. And and Trenton Van Schindles, you know, Henderson's gonna dust everybody that doesn't qualify for state. So anybody who's not a state qualifier, he's gonna get six. It's automatic. And um, you know, we could keep him to a decision as well. Um, you know, it was a kind of a quirky match, all that one was ref, but I won't get into that. Um just yeah, I can we can delve into that, but it's I can I open some people's eyes up. But Anderson's just phenomenal. And so for us to withstand that early assault um was you know something I felt we can wrestle with him. He's just but to beat him, it's another thing. So, you know, there's another kid that we have that could could just compete and same thing with, you know, then you got two really good guys at 20, um, 25, you know, 32 was was a little bit more of a a match that Holman probably felt, okay, we can we can probably if we're gonna win the duel, we could, but like Harry Bear is pretty good. He made it to state, won a match, and so we were able to get that one, but it was a good match. You know, they they they had it down to where you know they could get a takedown at the end and put some heat on us, uh, then we got the takedown. Um you know, 38 again, Taft, you know, he's gonna go out. And if he stays within his fundamentals and doesn't get too crazy, he could um he can go with that match because um, you know, he's he's a good wrestler. And so you gotta go six minutes. Same with 44, same with 52, you know. So make those good matches, and then then we can start uh doing some things. And then Holman has to do that same thing on top, and uh, you know, we were just able to put some points on and get some back points and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:47

Steve O, you got anything on this? No, I it was it was a great match, a lot of fun to watch. So that being said, Jeff, I know we both agreed that the results you know spoke for themselves by the end of it. Were there any moments during that duel where you got a little nervous?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:08

Um, you know, it's ex punching numbers and saying we're okay, we're okay, we're okay, we're okay. So along, but you're nervous all along because uh, you know, it's what's gonna happen next. So you have to uh you know, you gotta you gotta uh you know, you the next guy's gotta go out and get something done, get a spark going, or you know, go out against one of their better kids and and keep it close. So it's just constant battles. You know, it's unfortunate the 57 match. Uh I hope, you know, assuming it was a pretty traumatic injury and everything like that. That kind of slowed the duel down at that time, and it uh you never want to see that happen. Um but uh I would say if there was a time, yeah. I think maybe just early in the duel when you get pinned at 26, like that's when we're okay, you know, this match is going along and we're we're wrestling pretty good. And Nolan's uh not a kid that can score points, but he can he can hold guys down and be stubborn on the bottom. So when he got turned and got pinned, um, like okay, you know, we can't have that happen anymore. You know, we we took that we took our mulligan on hole one, hole two or three. Oh three, yeah. That can't happen anymore. So yeah, um that was about it. But then Perry got it back, and Hunter Wetzelwell, and Bryce, you know, these or uh Breck Russell well, like you just you just can't let them run it up on you and tech you or pin you.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:50

Jeff, I I know you'll appreciate this perspective, and I'm gonna take 30 seconds to speak as a Holman fan here. But uh I I always knew Castor and I talked about it. For Holman to be Kakana, one thing has to happen that that just shouldn't happen. And in the 285 match, when Nehemiah shot on Jepsen and and Jager hit this beautiful chin whip and his toe went like six inches out of bounds. I kind of just took the breath and smiled, like, all right, that was like the one thing, and that was the shot. Like that was that was it not enough real estate, but it was uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:32

Yeah, and I mean that's the way it goes. At that point, you're you're working on chin whips, you know, in practice to win a state title. Um, you know, and I I say that tongue in cheek because Jeff Jordan would be vomiting in his, you know, vomiting in his singlet right there. That um, you know, like chin whips are not are not what we do at a high level, but a chin whip can win you a state title. You know, it can like It doesn't matter how you win it if you can chin whip a guy and and uh throw him on his back and and get a big play. But you know, we you know it that would have been like something that would have been like, okay, we gotta start teaching chin whips now.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:15

Um or chin whip defense.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:17

I think all the strategy of that match, the strategy of that match, you know, was to keep it close. I think Nehemiah has the ability to score a few more points, and then you know, that match was never on the mat. I think that's where you know we we could have done some things, but like, you know, just grabbing onto our head, and that frustrated Nehemiah. Um, I don't know what to do. He's grabbing my head, you know. So like great, it kept it there, and it it got to the point where, okay, Nehemiah, rather than uh going and shooting and getting chin whipped, you know, let's dance like two polar bears, and uh, we know you can get out and we feel like you can ride them and we'll do whatever. We'll we'll go we'll go to overtime if we have to, but we can't get chin whipped. You know, don't get don't get don't get caught into that. And he was in, you know, on a pretty good, I think he was in on a pretty good opportunity for a takedown. He was in on legs, but Jephson's a big guy, you know, so he's built big in the lower body. It's like still gonna be hard when a kid is, you know, got his feet planted in the ground to finish on him on the edge of the mat. And then what do you do when you're on the edge of the mat? You get extended and you start dragging your feet. You see that happen with kids. We tell them, you know, it's we're not gonna get extended on the edge of the mat, trying to keep our shoelaces in. So um, you know, you gotta still wrestle in good position. And he got caught out of that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:44

Well, six in a row, Jeff, number 10 overall. Uh how'd you feel after this one?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:50

Oh great, you know, just uh you know, just this this group of kids for four years was no, and you've had, but it was a big group. So, you know, the year before you had a few kids at 1-4 and and this and that, but it was it was a big group of kids, you know, um, you know, like 10 seniors that were there, and you know, a lot of them wrestled, I think seven of them wrestled that night. So they uh, you know, it was it was just happy for them, you know, that they could, you know, be a part of that and get it. And then, you know, a lot of those guys were seniors at the end where they they they pulled it out for the team, you know, like you know, we're gonna we're gonna be the ones that are gonna, you know, put the exclamation on it. It's not gonna come come around to the lightweights, uh, not getting pinned to win. Like the starting weight was perfect for those kids to where our our lighter kids and underclassmen could minimize some damage and then they could they could finish it off like that's we would have started in the upper weights and then rolled around to you know, do you have a big enough lead to do this? Like, no, that's that's the you want to be down and come back with your guys that are invested the most years into the program. So that was uh that was a neat way to go out.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:10

I I did see that, coach. I I I saw um you know, all the things were going on, the injury just happened. There was a lot of uh um antics going on in the mat, whatever you want to call it. And I think I saw exactly you do that. I it was crooks, springers, winnekins, and uh Lendabe, I think if I remember right, and you you had little like all your heads were together kind of over off the mat in the corner. And uh I don't I don't know if that's the message you were giving them, but it's it's if I was if I was uh a gambling man, I would say as a coach, you were looking at those four seniors and going, hey, listen, this is in control. You seniors, let's end this bad boy. So I don't know what that was all about. If you had any commentary on that, or if uh or if that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:50

Well, it you know, that doesn't happen without that break there. You know, you're you're just kind of standing around and watching and you're seeing a kid in a stretcher, and you don't know how that affects some kids. I I would think that they're like, Yep, there's there's this match that has to happen, and and uh so hey guys, you know, okay, you gotta go out and and do it, you know, and and not trying to do too much like that message was probably the biggest for like in the case of Nehemiah. It's like win matches, like score points, win matches, um, you know, figure it out too. Like um, you got multiple ways you can score. And um, if it's gonna be on the mat, take a tech, get it. Like if you can turn a guy, and don't don't uh, you know, being try so desperate to uh go feet to back. And then and then in some cases it's like, well, I can't turn this guy on the mat, but I can take him down. Maybe I can go feet to back. Like you have to figure it out. You have to play that chess, chess game in your head of what how can I get to an eight-point lead, how can I get to a 15-point lead, and what gives me the best chance to pin if I can secure that first. You know, there was a lot of quirky tactics in that duel in Liam's match and Brady, Brady's match, with you know, the Holman kids uh giving up, you know, willing to give up a takedown at the end, and our kids not willing to take the takedown. And, you know, the referees like, oh, who do I call for stalling for that? And that's like, well, you didn't go for the takedown, that's stalling, and he's not wrestling. That's stalling. And only in a in a really like well-prepared dual team are you gonna see, you know, like you don't it's not like we worked on that this year. It's not like you're talking to your guys and saying, hey, if you're ever in a match and you need a pin, but he's willing to give you 0.14 and 15. And this duel looks totally different three years ago, you know, when it's two-point takedowns and three-point near falls, doesn't it? You know, it looks it looks totally different. You know, we're gonna get more opportunities to pin, but we're gonna have to work harder to get a tech. And same for them. Like that's uh when when we went to these new scoring, I said, I I I always thought I, you know, we were uh high school, the NFHS was reacting to a college problem, you know. So colleges go into this to have more points and to get guys more offensive on the feet. And so, you know, making a takedown really worth two points if the other guy gets an escape. It's not just worth one point, you know, in net effect. So I think um, and when I way I looked at it, I said, high school doesn't have a problem scoring points, you know, like kids are giving up points left and right, like we don't defend very well, so we don't have this problem, but okay, we're going to threes and fours and and all this stuff. So maybe, maybe a tech should be 20, and maybe a you know, a major should be 12, and uh we should, you know, just just bump those up with it and make it still the same number of scores. And I had I was talking to one coach, very highly respected state champion coach about this, and he said to me uh, you know, that summer that it was going to be implemented two years ago, and he said, Well, do we really need to see a tech? Do we really need to see, you know, this many takedowns to get a tech? Get the guys off the mat and let's get on to the next match it's making. And I I never thought, so the rule was not done in c the reason we went to three-point takedowns is more scoring in college, rewarding takedowns more, but in then in high school, this coach is telling me, well, we want to get the shitty matches done faster. And so is that why we did it? Like if we were going to scoring scoring points faster, so you can get it done quicker. And maybe that's true, but when you get to team state now, um it it changes, like it's uh it's a different thing now. So, you know, some of these Jeff, do you need some water, buddy? No, I'm good. Okay. I just think well, you yeah, give me one.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:03

I don't know. Yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:06

But I just think, you know, I I saw when you get into a big duel, you know, these points and getting to a tech faster. And then there's the stalling situation too, or in college, and they found that out now real quick after a few years of college three-point takedowns is um it it allows you to stall one more time in the third period. You know, if I get a takedown and I'm up three to one instead of three to I'm up uh three to one instead of two to one. Assume if we both get escapes, that cancels out. I get that. But if I'm up by two because of my takedown on you, um, I can stall one more time in the third period, and that's a big, that's a big call to take. You know, that was the first thing that popped into my head is like, okay, that allows as soon as that, okay. You're talking about all these close matches in college, that one takedown match, it's going to be a two-point difference instead of a one-point difference. If you just look on it as a whole, I just first thing I thought about one more stalling every kid can take. And then you watch the NCA finals the last, you know, especially this year, you know, they they're able to take that stalling call at the end. Uh, the warning, the point. Um, and uh, you know, rather than just that point doesn't tie the match anymore. Not to mention how quick you can get to a tech into a major. You know, I think kids kids look at a at a uh kids look at a 12 to 4 match now and they're like, man, I got my ass kicked. I got major 12 to 4. Yeah don't be so hard on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:42

That could be like a takedown swing. Yeah, uh, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:46

In 2022, you know, that was a you know, it was a it was a six to three match, you know. Right. It was six to three, you know. It was you were escaping a takedown from tying it. Now he got he got four for his near fall, and he got this for his, you know, it's just you know, no, I agree. You have to take uh scores of matches like and look at them a little bit differently. And I think people do that now, but uh a lot of points I can score with one move.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:19

Jeff, every time we have you on the podcast, it gives me thinking material for the next month. Because I'm like, huh, it's an interesting point. I never thought of it that way. That's uh good stuff. I like it. Now I it's it's a little insight into how your brain works non-stop, I bet you.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:36

Yeah, it's just if how it affects the sport, like rule changes and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:41

Unintended consequences.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:43

There is, yeah. And then we don't, you know, and then something happens and then we got to react to correct it. But um I am nothing against the three-point takedown and the four-point near fall. It's just we've we've changed dual, we've changed the outcome of dual meets. You know, like if you would score um, you know, that you could uh go back. I I never did this, but go back and look at uh a 10-year history of one and two-point dual meets in the state of Wisconsin. And there have been a lot of them, you know, quarterfinals, semifinals, finals in all the divisions, you know, even go back to sectional finals, because that's historic. If you can qualify for a team to state, and just go back and score all the maybe two or three points, just the close duels that came down to the final match, winner take all, and go back and reapply the points to uh giving three-point takedons and four minutes to the old ones, or you know, doing one and twos to this current two years. We don't have a lot of uh dual meets that qualify for that, but see if there's a different winner. Oh somebody else win the duel, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:49

Right, right. Oh, that's right. I figured that's where you're going.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:52

Same amount of escape, same amount of near falls, you know. Um does does that change? Okay, well, they would have had two more. They that team would have had three more techs, and they lost by one, but they only got majors because of that. You know, it changed, and you're you're you're going with the rules at the time, I get that, but most kids are just trying as hard as they can to score as many points as they can. I don't know how much would change, change the outcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:21

Might be a fun summer project for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:24

Yeah, I mean, basketball, the only the only time basketball was like the three-point shot. You know, they added the three-point shot, but other than that, it's it's two points every time the ball moves over.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:33

I know the one thing you would change, Jeff, if you uh if you got to hold the gavel for a day. Don't take away team points in a duel.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:43

That's goofy.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:44

Yeah, it is goofy.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:47

We do things like nobody's changed the amount of points like a home run is worth a run, and hockey put the ball in the goal, and soccer, and and those are team sports, but like golf is pretty simple. We're not gonna change, but wrestling dual scoring and match scoring, when you do that, and we didn't change what a tech and a pin, like we kept it at eight and fifteen. So it's just ending matches sooner and getting to majors faster, is what it's done. And um there's there's less pins now than there used to be because you're getting to text faster.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:22

Speaking of golf, is this the summer we all convene in the northeast and golf? We've been talking about it for years. And one I'm pumped, I got a new Zaxby's or Zerbies. What is it, chicken?

SPEAKER_02 2:03:37

Venables. Oh, Venobles. Yeah, that's nowhere even close. I'm I you know, I'm actually game now because then I'm out of a bionic hip, so I'm ready to show off my golf expertise.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:50

We're past the two hour mark, and it shouldn't be sidebarking after the two hour mark. I will say Cardinals up for them on the Brewers, end of the fifth. Jeff, congrats on another team state title. Do you have uh I'd say the outlook on next year would be uh, well, A, probably looking to win a Team State title again, but I'm guessing is your answer gonna be uh get better every day or something along those lines?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:28

Yep. Yeah, it it gets hard, you know, everybody's getting better. At least 10 teams in D1 are you know that are there already. And you know, like we mentioned Milton and obviously Holman, uh, their better team is yet to come. And uh I would say, you know, right in our league, Hortonville was really young this year. So they're gonna, they were they were a year away, so they they didn't they graduate some really good kids, but um, you know, how do you fill in? You got to fill in, and then you have kids at you know, Jack Thorpe's and kids like that that just come in and they go and win a medal at the state tournament, become you know, something people weren't accounting for. So we got a lot of those kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:11

Get better every day, follow the the Kaizan approach, the one percent. And okay, I guess I had two questions. Final thought. I mean, you gave a pretty good synopsis on this year's group, but and you had your banquet already, so you probably have an answer lobbed up for this one. Uh final thoughts on this year's team as a group of people, and then uh final thoughts on this year's seniors.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:37

Well, it's a roller coaster, you know. I think every wrestling coach has you know the roller coaster uh you know vibe going on throughout the year, uh just uh managing uh so many things. So, you know, we rode a wave and uh we were we were you know good from the beginning and we stayed pretty consistent all the way through. But you know, it's that duck on the water that John Wooden said, you look calm on the surface, you see the product on the field, but those those uh webbed feet are just going 100 miles an hour beneath the water, and you don't see uh all the effort, the work, and the craziness that's happening, stirring things up just to get that duck move across that that graceful pond to itself.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:23

Is that from your uh book of sports quotes that you have?

SPEAKER_00 2:06:26

I I don't I don't know. Like I think I heard me say that once, you know, when somebody asked him, you know, the astute tie and the calmness and everything, and like uh it just seems like you're never nervous. And he said, Yeah, inside you can't see, you know, the paddle paddle wheels going. And that's uh that's a high school team, you know. It's the Bobby Knight season on the brink, uh, NCA championship team. Great book. Uh you see the end and you see the product, but there is all kinds of stuff going on. It is a it's a constant battle, you know, helping kids and dealing with uh, you know, anxieties and you know, we're we're teague, you're a pretty young guy, but it's even more uh, you know, like we I like social media. I I view the I view myself, I view my place in the world and the universe uh different than uh the kids do or probably did at my age, but you know, there's peers and followers and and all that stuff. So, you know, you have to bring a calmness uh to the kids, you know, that everything's gonna be okay. Um but um you know, direct them the best you can. And they did they did a great job. I mean, it's a great group of kids. Seniors were uh, you know, really gonna miss them all. A lot of them going to college, some of them going in already to make a lot of money, you know, right away, uh, going into the workforce, set up with jobs that they've been uh doing through our work school program. Nice, uh doing a really smart thing, uh, setting their career up for uh big figures. And they're the kind of kids that uh, you know, they've got that figured out and um they're gonna, you know, do do really well. Hopefully they stay in the community and and stay involved. And then you have your college kids that are going on and you know, number one, get a good degree that you're gonna use so that you can, so that path, you know, goes goes in a direction is is all leading one way, and not that you can't, you know, experiment a little bit with some things, but you know, the sooner you come on to what you want, uh, the more you're gonna get a return on your investment. So, you know, we have that. And I mean all of our seniors, they have a plan right now. And uh, you know, we're just looking to see them through.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:51

Uh I don't know if you've given six different answers or five different answers so far here, Jeff. And you know, the answer can obviously change from year to year. The thing if I had to give myself life advice from year to year, it'd probably change. But any advice, uh any advice or one piece of advice you'd give for first year coaches, or if you had to go back to first year Jeff Mochik right now and say one thing, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 2:09:17

Um boy, there's a lot there. I mean, you know, I think about coaches that are there, they're really good, and then they're gone, you know, or um, you know, it's uh geez. So we got a lot of young guys, and I've I averaged, I think in our conference of nine schools, I think there's been an average of like five coaches per school since I've been coaching. You know, even Nina, you know, they've had they've only had three, but I said an average of five because some of them had eight. Um but uh you know anything it's possible. Um you have to uh you know, you're really gonna have to invest into it. You gotta find a life partner that'll invest into it and support it. And um because it's uh, you know, there's no money in it at all. Um you got to find a career that allows for it. You know, it's hard. Who gets off at three o'clock in the afternoon in a you know, a nine to five job? Or, you know, even if you're working at home, you know, like it's really hard to put stuff down at three in the afternoon and get to a plan for a practice and get there, like educators. I know you talked about it last year, um, or one of the coaches, I think, uh St. Croix, you know, mentioned you know, male educators, and and you know, we're looking for more female coaches with all the programs starting. So it's like, you know, teaching for me right now, it's all I've ever done. Teach coach, teach, coach. And so I most of the young teachers I know, um, they don't coach, they have a side hustle. You know, they're either selling houses, working at a golf course, personal training, you know, they're doing something that can bring some real uh income to the family if they have two kids at home, you know, and that's a two kids is a big family right now. It's not seven or eight like when I was growing up, or you just didn't have a lot of money. We're just happy. So you have to have, you know, consumables, you gotta have stuff. And so um, so in the teaching profession, like I'm I'm pretty good. Like did it, did it right where no, I didn't uh make billions of dollars, you know, I didn't didn't have that, but um it's a great career. And I could have done a lot of stuff on the I could have done a lot of stuff, you know, like in the summertime. I never had a summer job. Never. Um so uh it was It was always about volunteer coaching because uh you know, made a lot of wise investments. Uh Kakano is a great school district. You know, went and went and moved up the ladder quick. Um you know, whether the other big thing too is for young teachers, if they're gonna move up the ladder quick, what does that mean? I gotta get an administrative license, you know, I gotta be an AP, an A D, uh principal of a building, get to that six-figure mark. And so uh closer to it. And uh what does that do for coaching? You know, it's just now uh now there's meetings after school every day and uh calendar all summer long, and so that becomes harder to do. Um yeah, the path of a 35-year teacher that coaches, you know, a sport. It's still it's still doable, but you have to you have to make sacrifices. And it's uh like I said, um I did really well. Like I'm I'm really set up well um to do whatever I want till I die. Uh it's possible, but you have to be really smart with it, you know, and live live within your means and uh so you can benefit from it. So and then the coaching part is uh any like I said, anything's possible. Like it's it's a hell of a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:25

Yeah, if you got me thinking about my whole life, yeah. I uh yeah, invest.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:32

You gotta invest. Invest in property.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:36

Uh trust the compound interest at some point.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:40

Yeah, we gotta have you gotta have smart people you trust helping you. Like true. Gotta ask for help. Get good people to do the right, help you do the right things.

unknown 2:13:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:53

That was uh that was great. Not only was it great advice because uh I thought for a moment there was a pause. I thought you were gonna tell your first year self that hey, someday these guys are gonna ask you to come on a podcast and don't do it, okay?

SPEAKER_00 2:14:09

I didn't know what a podcast was in 1991. I thought that's a next one.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:14

I'm sorry, what's a podcast? Yeah. All right, so you know who Casey Caseum is? Yeah, that's uh anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:26

Well, speaking of well, yeah, that's good, man. I'm I don't I'm trying to I'm trying to say I have nothing to add. I don't know that sounds crazy to say, but sounds like a show well done on Jeff's part.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:38

Yeah, Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:39

That's like I mean, I I I can't say this out loud, and I'm not, but I I really do look forward to our yearly podcast. And I mean, obviously, I'm rooting for I'm not rooting for any particular team in D1 in my role here, but uh I really do look forward to having you on now, six years in a row.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:56

So yeah, all those coaches are good. I did I listen to uh you know uh and you know it's those guys, and every year I'll go on and watch them and because you learn from them and what they say and what they go through, and then you you feel pretty good about yourself when you know they are going through the same things you're going through. Um it's not easy. I told you that guys before. It's like, God, I wish I'd no, it's everything's always hard. The more, you know, whether you have a lot of talent there, um, you know, you're you're struggling to get kids to, you know, get in a wrestling stance, everything's a battle. You know, if you're driven to just help the kids and be the best they can be, it's there's gonna be struggles and kids are gonna do some things that nothing will make me uh nothing'll shock me, you know, anymore. Like nothing.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:48

I think like kids think that I'm like, oh my god, was I'm like, guys, yeah, you know I've been I've been there, done that. Yeah, it's like let's fix this, all right. Don't don't think that I'm judging you right now. Like this is you didn't invent the you didn't invent this crazy thing you did. Like I did stupid things too, and uh you had to rely on people to help you get better and help you fix your mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:18

Steve, I I don't know what closer music you want me to play, like Hal's Bells or like that trumpet.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:24

No, I mean if you want me to wrap up, I'll go you you you talk about uh surrounding yourself with good people, Jeff. You mentioned I mean that's like the story of my life. I just uh I I don't claim to be a smart man, I just get around, I just hang around with people that I trust and I I value I value their opinion and they have steered me in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:42

So you're the average of the five people you associate with them off.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:46

That is true. I I just hope I don't bring them down and they're averages, right? That's kind of how that goes.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:52

You're pulling some up and you're you're not dragging anybody down because if they're living by the same rule, they're living balance and just the way it works.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:02

But speaking of that, and uh you guys probably know who my source is. Uh, that's uh my source led me to my trivia question tonight for Teague. Coach, I know you'll get this one easily, but uh um uh I Zach even said he goes, I think this one will stump Teague. So Teague, you ready for it? Uh yeah. All right. Since 2012, Kakana, so this is your era, Teague. So this is you. You were 2013 on. So since 2012, Kakana has had a state champ every year except two years. So it's a two-part question. What two years were they? And now those two years, they had a wrestler in the finals. This is uh this is way out there. Can you name the two years and can you name the two wrestlers that were in the finals? Those years that they did not have a champ.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:52

All right. Um, I'm gonna guess 2013.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:58

Okay. That is correct, by the way. Can you name the wrestler that was in the finals? That was in the finals. That's gotta be the general, right? That teague. Jim Lee. Yeah. Listen, you know what? I uh I I'll I spring I sing your praises everywhere I go. For you right now to be 50% on this question of getting the year and the wrestler, uh, my hat goes off to you once again.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:24

I knew it was close, uh it was somewhere around then rest in peace, Josh Bird. They had some battles, and uh yeah, that's I knew that was kind of that that time.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:35

If you get this next one off the charts, mad respect goes to you. I I may, I may, I I don't know if I'd have got the year, but I could have gotten the wrestler for the first one.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:46

I know Jeff has places to be, so I don't know if I have time to roll a dexit necessarily, but we know we had Liam the last three years. Was there Liam Grayson crossover at all?

SPEAKER_00 2:18:57

Yeah, one year.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:59

Yeah, so there's you can go all the way back to 2020. Uh Keen won his state titles. Was that 1718? You're good. Oh man, I just got I got some tough choices to make. Uh uh you know the kid too because wait, wait, is it 2019? You yeah, it is 2019. And is it is it uh Zach Lee?

SPEAKER_00 2:19:26

No, he lost an eight.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:29

Oh that 2019. Is it a Leone?

SPEAKER_00 2:19:36

No, they were graduated.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:38

It's not you said I know the kid, Jeff?

SPEAKER_00 2:19:41

Yeah. You'll know him because a Holman kid beat him. Uh not in that state finals match, but the following year.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:49

Oh, Holman kid beat him. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:52

Then we all we all placed him in that tournament, but we came back and took third when you could do that. We lost in the quarters. I think he was a Holman kid with a great headlock.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:03

Oh my gosh. Uh uh Verhagen? Yep. Yeah. Who was who did Verhagen lose to in the finals?

SPEAKER_00 2:20:11

Uh some schlup named Nicolai Rivera. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:18

Wow. Yeah. Nice. I'm really happy about that. Uh, you should be. You should be.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:27

That's pretty cool. Who was the woman wrestler that had the lefty headlocks? Danny Smith. Yeah, that we like uh it was you know one of those things where you're in practice and and you're asking yourself if you should even be working on this, you know, paralysis by analysis, and and then you like you're throwing lefty headlocks on him. I'm a lefty elf will throw some, and it didn't freaking matter. He still walked right into it and got five-pointed. Okay, you get bridged off your back, you choked yourself out, bridging out of it. They come right back to the middle. Wham, bam, did it again.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:10

I don't know many people more passionate about a move than Sammy Smith and his lefty headlock.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:15

Okay, Jaden, he he ripped off four wins in a row, beat some really good kids, and came back and got the next best thing. He got third, so that was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:26

Nice. You know, good thing to good thing to end on there. That is, yeah, too bad. Jeff, I I gotta say, out of all the ones we've done, this might be my favorite one so far with you. Oh, yes. Good.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:40

Yeah, ramble, ramble on like Led Zeppelin sweep.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:44

We we did not go for an hour like we anticipated, but uh you have joined the likes of uh Joe Rager, Curtis Fiedler, and Mike Kelly in the two-hour 20-minute club.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:55

So you gotta um exploit your editing skills, and you could probably chop some of these down a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:05

I don't know. Nothing you said is editable, so we'll keep it all. I'll lose sleep over that like five second pause that we had the one time. You got done talking about something, and then I like was and then I'm like, oh, what were we actually doing?

SPEAKER_02 2:22:22

I do remember that, and I was I was thinking, I was sitting there thinking about what he's talking about. I'm like, and I realized you weren't talking either, Tegan. I'm like, oh crap, that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:33

Oh, what's the quote? A man who thinks all the time has like nothing to think but thoughts or something like that. That's deep. I haven't heard whatever the quote was.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:42

You have you have your book of idioms in your closing one of those? I do have a book of idioms.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:49

Oh I do. I have a book of idioms too, but mine's at school.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:56

I don't uh I can't think uh dang Jeff, you're putting me on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:07

Yeah, it's like you've got it right, you had it right on your book of idioms. It was right on your desk.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:12

I know, I don't have the book of idioms, I think, on my desk. Oh my lord. That's it, that's a shame. I don't, yeah. Oh, here we go. I just looked up idioms. It is a great book. Picture worth a thousand words. This is I mean, this is an easy one, fellas. We had a good one, but it's just time to call it a day. There you go. Perfect. That's well, Jeff, thank you for coming on. I know uh I don't know. We appreciate everything you do for the sport and uh coming on and sharing your your philosophies, your thoughts, and taking this much time to do it on a on a brewer's night of all things. Yeah, uh we appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:56

Will will Jeff be on for uh number seven next year? Well, folks, that's up in the air. Oh there you go. Good little idiom.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:07

Love it. Nice. That was as for Steve and I, we uh should have some four timers on. Whether they're this year or prior years, I guess we'll find out. But I know we have this year's lined up. They said they'd come on, so we'll see how that shakes out. And uh, if not, we'll find something to talk about, whether it's looking at old state brackets, interviewing guys from the the pre-Joff and Steve era in Wisconsin. But we'll we're gonna keep ourselves occupied. Keep you folks, keep giving you content. So thank you everybody for tuning in, and until next time, we will catch you on the flip flop.