Redefining Expedition and Adventure Travel: Smaller Groups, Bigger Worlds

Words like expedition get tossed around, but we’re here to bring the meaning back to earth—literally. On this episode, Amanda and Lesa Bain from Lindblad Expeditions, unpack what makes a journey truly exploratory: small groups, expert naturalists and local guides, community partnerships that keep money on the ground, and the “luxury of access” that puts you in the right place at the right moment. If you’ve ever wondered whether expedition travel has to be on a ship, or if land-based adventures can deliver the same goosebumps, this conversation is your map.

We walk through the spectrum of land expeditions with concrete examples. Natural Habitat Adventures anchors us in Churchill, where polar bears, belugas, and aurora science make nearly year-round reasons to go, and where local hotels and outfitters thrive by design. Classic Journeys shows how cultural walking with true locals turns markets and vineyards into living classrooms, while DuVine Biking blends ambition and ease with levels, e-bikes, and a van at your back. Off The Beaten Path demonstrates white-glove customization for national parks—think detailed roadbooks and on-the-ground intel you can’t google. And in Tanzania, Thompson Safaris centers Tanzanian-owned operations, the full calendar of the migration, and the deep pride that elevates wildlife viewing into something personal.

We also highlight Women In The Wild itineraries built by and for women, where logistics fade and connection takes the stage. Along the way, we dig into conservation and science in action: monarchs tagged with micro-transponders, jaguar IDs, even drones collecting whale spray so researchers can learn without harm. Above all, we make the case for trusted travel advisors who listen first, challenge assumptions, and match travelers to the right operator, pace, and purpose—because not every trip labeled “expedition” delivers true immersion.

Ready to rethink adventure and plan a land expedition that fits who you are? Follow the show, share this with a friend who needs a better definition of “expedition,” and leave a review with the wild moment you’re chasing next.

Transcript

Setting The Stage: What Is Expedition

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Please Go Away Travel Podcast. I'm here today with a wonderful guest who I've known for a very long time. You've heard her before on our other podcasts, Lisa Bain, Vice President of Travel Industry Sales and Relations. Welcome, Lisa. Hi, Amanda. It's good to be back. Wonderful. Well, I'll tell you, we have worked together uh while you were at Limblad Expeditions, and now you have a whole different range of offerings that you are out there talking about. And I'm really excited about this because this is my absolute favorite type of travel.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yes. You know what? And it's been a pretty amazing transition from ship-based to land-based. Um, and understanding how those are so similar in some ways, but provide whole new ways of exploration and expedition that people may not think about. I mean, you know, from Africa with Thomson Safaris and small groups around the world with natural habitat adventures, and then, you know, walking through some of the most remarkable places on the planet with classic journeys to, you know, off the beaten path, which, you know, does amazing custom programs and national parks and small group journeys as well to biking. Um, you know, we've got, I've got this whole I've gone from my gorgeous little ships over at Limblad Expeditions, but now I have this absolute diversity that everyone can find something that they're going to feel fits with what they're how they want to explore.

Sea Vs Land: The Word Gets Hijacked

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I know. And you know what? Right now I'm finding from the travel advisor side that expedition travel is blossoming. And it it really is like something that is tried and true to my heart. You and I have been on expeditions together, and recently I've done quite a few interviews and we're always talking about expeditions by sea. And I really wanted to talk about expeditions by land because I think it's something that is often overlooked and something that is often misunderstood as a really great way to learn how to explore, to be on an adventure and a journey, but you need to know what you're getting into as well. So I as I was preparing for this, I actually looked up the definition of expedition travel. And I found that University of Hawaii has a definition, an expedition refers to a journey or voyage undertaken for a specific purpose, often involving exploration, research, and other initiatives. And I think that it is something that's really popular right now, and it's also something that's misused quite a bit. So we're gonna talk about the different ranges, what's offered, what we consider as professionals uh to be an expedition versus maybe something more mainstream that tries to label us expedition. Yeah. Yeah. So let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah, let's and I do want to say that, because we've talked about this in the past too, um, you and I, about how that word expedition has kind of been hijacked a little bit. Everybody's decided to throw it on the end of, you know, a trip. And I think you're right, it's it's digging in and figuring out what trips, what journeys, what exploration really does fit under that genre. Um, because, you know, a big bus trip or a huge ship, that's not an expedition. That's a beautiful journey than what if that's what you're looking for. But we need to be really honest with what that word stands for. It's about getting out into the world, the path less traveled, to be able to really be in nature, in culture, to be connected in a way that's with smaller groups and more intimate experiences with people who are so well and versed and knowledgeable in those places. So I think this is such a timely conversation because that word is being used all over the place. And so, yeah, it's it's a good reset.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

It is. Well, and what I've found is there can be different reasons that people go. I mean, for me, I'm always looking for specific types of animals that I've never seen or marine life. And so, you know, for me, natural habitat adventures, seeing polar bears in the wild, crazy, and just something I would have never even considered, but yet was such a highlight in my travel life. And I think that that's where people don't necessarily understand, and their travel specialist is there to help them kind of unpack what is their level of expedition that they're willing to take. Um, and what are their interests, whether it be fitness with cycling and exploring and deep immersion into local cultures and things where it takes it to a different level. Tell me about the different companies you have because you have multiple companies. We've worked with all of them and we've loved what we've done. Talk about the different companies you have.

Defining Real Expedition: Small, Expert-Led, Immersive

Natural Habitat: Churchill, Belugas, Aurora

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So, look, Natural Habitat Adventures is pretty remarkable in that small group journeys, you know, the average size is nine. It can be as low as six up to 14. So this is intimate little groups of people that are getting to go to remarkable places. You mentioned uh pole bears up in Churchill, Manitoba, right? Um, one of the beauties of Natural Habitat Adventures is that they pick places where they can be a part of the community where they go. So, for example, Churchill, they're using local hotels, they're using local providers, they're working with the local communities to make sure that money stays on location to help that region grow. And in Churchill alone, we're there for three quarters of the year. So it's not just polar bear season, it's beluga whale season when those beluga's come into the mouth of the river and there there's thousands of them, and you can get into a zodiac and you can hear them singing around the zodiac, or if you're on the photo tour, you're on the back of the zodiac, submerged, and those beluugas are swimming up to you at the back, or you know, it's it's northern lights. And that area of the United Canada is actually where they go to study the Aurora Borealis because it is so clear once that Hudson Bay freezes, um, there's very little condensation. So you don't get the cloud cover you do along the coast. So there's all these reasons to look at a place and talk to an advisor that can really be well versed in why you choose that place over another. Um, you know, and we've spoken before about the luxury of access. And I think this is a really important conversation to have. You know, some of these remote places are not going to have five-star hotels. And that's a good thing because it's locally owned and it's small and it's got character, and it may not have, you know, the huge turndown services and the spa you want, but the reason you're there is the luxury of access to see the bears. And so you need to be able to open yourself up to that liberating experience of being with the wildlife, or down in the pantanal with the jaguars, and they're walking along the beach holding a cayman in their mouth, or the monarch butterflies, where you go outside Mexico City and you're in this gorgeous valley, and when the sun comes up, you actually hear the discernible swoosh of all those wings opening up as those monarchs open to the sun. I mean, it those are things that you can't replicate anywhere else. So you just have to open yourself up to okay, maybe the five-star experience is that, not necessarily just the hotel rooms. But there's also trips that do have five-star accommodations in places like Botswana. So it's, you know, making the most of what you have where you go. And then you've got someone like Classic Journeys, which is small group walking tours, but this is where they embrace local culture and local guides. It's not someone coming in from outside who has a history degree in the place, but someone who lives there, who knows the person you're stopping at for lunch to cook lunch with them and drink wine under their, you know, their back terrace, looking over their vineyards or their olive trees, or you're in Morocco with guides taking you through the markets that know everybody that you're stopping and seeing. And it's not a, we've all been on those where it's a bit of a forced shopping experience. That's not cultural. This is very much about personal interactions and having a cup of a cup of mint tea with someone down a side alley. It's getting on a divine bicycle tour and being able to go in the footsteps of some of the great races, or you know, being with a team that is so passionate once again about you experiencing these places, not just the biking, but the culture and the food and the wines and the dining experience and all that included. And then you've got off the beaten path, which is gosh, when you talk about their personalized um programs, uh, their custom programs. An example would be Alaska for the national parks. You know, you've got someone who wants to see all the national parks in Alaska. The booklet they give you for you to share with your client, for your client to read, can be a hundred pages long from the second you start that journey to where to have a cup of coffee and who at the restaurant to ask for, to the guide you're going to meet, to the temperatures, to how your room is going to look. To, I mean, it's it is truly remarkable the depth that they go to to make sure that journey is perfect. And places like Samoa, National Park, the U.S. National Park in Samoa, it's one of the few ways to get there, right? With someone who's intimately knowledgeable about that can take you. And then on top of that, you've got Thompson Safaris in Africa, and this is just Tanzania. And, you know, Tanzania, you know, we talk about the migration, and everyone thinks it's the wildebeest coming across the river, but the migration is the whole year, the wildlife heading down south and the birthing season, where you've got more cats in um the Serengeti than all of Kenya. You've got these beautiful little tented Nayumbas, which are, you know, gorgeous tents, uh pushed away in the in the forest, and you've got your guy, your local guides because it's all Tanzanian run and owned on the ground in Tanzania. Um, you know, I just got back from being in Ongora Goro Crater. The thing that is amazing about that is not just the wildlife, it's a busy place to go. It looks like a Charles Diorama when you stand on the top of it, right? Doesn't it? It's like a biosphere.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

It looks like it's it's like the big bubble in Las Vegas, but it's it's like it's been just frozen in time.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

It's it's a forested area, it's a it's a wetlands, it's a lake, it's a savannah. And you can nearly see the dotted line a kid would draw around it as you look down on it. So I think, you know, in the history of Lewis Leakey and his wife were there doing research on the early peoples of this region. And so it's more than just okay, I'm gonna go see animals in Gorgor Crater. It's these remarkable experiences and depth. And the I think what transcends just having a guide is the pride of a Tanzanian sharing Tanzania, right?

Luxury Of Access Over Five Stars

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, that is so different and so special. Yeah, well, and I think the fact that they focus so much on discovery and deep immersion and understanding the culture and you know, the history of it all is just fascinating. And it it's one of those things as a travel specialist that, you know, when we have a client that comes to us and they say, you know, I'd like to try something a little different. Or we might say, I know you're thinking of this, but if you'd like to try something a little different, let's try this. Instead, it really opens up their whole world because often people do travel to the same areas or in the same types of travel, but once they explore and they go with a company that really has a history of doing it right and well and responsibly, responsibly, yeah, changes everything. And what I found is that the projects that these companies work on to help sustain these areas, these cultures, um, allow someone to come back and continue that experience. There are still, I still follow uh some of the people that I met when I was in Churchill. And it's such a fascinating place because it is such a small community, but the history is just fascinating with the indigenous people and just the people who live there, among other places. So tell me how you recommend, because I know you are primarily working with travel advisors, um, which we support all travel advisors who are professionals, who educate, who make relationships, use those relationships to match the perfect client with the perfect company for what they're looking for. What do you talk about when you have an advisor who's not familiar with Expedition and they say, I have a client who really would like to move in this direction? How are you helping them understand the best way to match them?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, that's a great question. And you know me, I can wax lyrically for a long, long time. So I tend to look at that as an open invitation to kind of dig deeper about the client. Um look, I you I'm gonna take a slight step back because I I think it's really important what you said there about advisors who advise their clients, right? It's such an important differentiation. And and anybody who's traveling who has a travel advisor should wish for someone who is gonna say to them at some point, hang on a minute, cool your jets. I know you want to go here, but I've known you long enough, and I really think that you should do this. That that is a for back and forwards relationship of trust where you can say to your client, because it's been built, I think you should do this. It's gonna be different. It may not be the five-star accommodations, but it is the experience I know you're looking for. I trust these people. I know you want to make sure that your kids are gonna see per polar bears at some point in the future. These people are helping to make sure that the resources are there for that. So there's all these great stories. And I think it's sitting with an advisor and listening to how they're talking to their client first, right? It's having that conversation. Well, well, what have you suggested to them? And if they say, well, they've asked me, okay, then the first thing I want to say to them is, well, that's great. And I'm so glad they've found their way to us. But let's talk about how you can also guide them to look at us even if they're not interested, right? So that you can open up other avenues to come to us with the right client. And it is about the right client because that's where you've built such beautiful trust. Because when you send someone with the right product, they then trust you for the next decision and the next decision. But if you just put them on it because it's discounted or, you know, whatever's happening is, you know, oh, big news, but it's not a good fit in your gut, chances are that clients are not going to come back and go, wow, I really trust, you know, no, we're gonna go with our ideas next time. So I I just wanted to say that because I think it's such an important part in our industry that those advisors, and these are the people I just am so excited to work with that want to go that way. The new advisors coming in who want to learn to be consultative and to support their guests, but be try a trusted resource. And so when I sit down with somebody, that's the first thing I want to do. I want to learn how they're talking to their client, what are they saying, how are their clients coming to them, and then tell them I need them to trust me. So I am always going to be that trustworthy resource that says, you know what, we've just talked about your client, we've gone over their history of travel, you've told me what they're looking for. I don't know that this is the trip for them. Right.

Classic Journeys And Cultural Walking

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Right, and that does happen. And you know what? I think that's always a really good conversation in that the last thing we ever want to do is put the client in the wrong place or something that doesn't fit their style or their desire for that specific trip. And I think, you know, as I I've done this for 30 plus years, I yeah, a long time. And it is amazing that when you do take the time to really dive deeper with people, what interests you, or maybe they're you know, want their kids to experience something before they go off to university or before, you know, before they're out of the house, they want them to see maybe a third world country, maybe a a um, you know, type of animal that's on the brink of extinction, or you know, something that is so magnificent and so life-changing that when you do take the time to really dive in to what is the purpose of the trip, if they're coming to me and they're saying, I want to relax and lay on the beach and unwind, okay, expedition travel, probably not the right time in your life. However, there are other times that that may really fit what you're up to. Um, how do you, you know, define you have these companies, there's five of them that you work with, and that you're talking about we have Duvine Biking, which has biking trips uh all over the world. Um, they are hosted. You've got uh, you know, people biking with you, you've got guides, you've got a support vehicle. Talk a little bit about that for people, and especially because for me, I'm not a crazy hard cyclist, and you and I have been on a cycling journey together. You peddled your butt off. I was on an e-bike living it up, and it was fantastic. Like it was such a great way to meet both of our needs. I wanted to enjoy the countryside without killing myself. You, on the other hand, chose a different path.

Off The Beaten Path: Bespoke National Parks

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I did choose a different path, and maybe regret was a part of that first day when we were riding in the rain. Um, look, I yes, I think you know, divine having here's what I think sets divine apart, apart from Andy, who is just so involved in every trip and every aspect and every moment of these experiences. But it's from the moment you wake up and maybe it's in a private filler and it's in a small boutique hotel, it's maybe on a small yacht. Um, you know, it's always gonna be in those small, intimate settings, but it's a beautiful breakfast. And then you walk out, your bikes are all set up, all your gear is ready to go, it's size to you, your guide is there, they're gonna go over the ride for the day, your van is with you the whole time. And as we've seen before, right? Some people want to do 60 miles a day. Others of us are quite happy to stop at lunch with a nice beverage, um, and then not ride in the afternoon. So it's that flow. Flexibility that if you've got someone who wants to really push hard, but it's also having different levels of rides that are very clear. So when you're talking with a client or, you know, clients looking at these trips, they can go, okay, I'm looking at these levels. I'm a level two. I want to be able to go on rolling hills in the Napa, or I, you know, just relax and take in the scenery. Or I want to hit the really steep climbs in Europe and I want to really push myself. It's very clear to help you decide which trip you want to go on. But it's it's stopping for a coffee in a small village, it's sitting under, you know, in a beautiful park or a gorgeous restaurant for lunch and then doing your afternoon or riding in the afternoon or going back to the spa or sitting by the pool. It's it's that kind of flexibility. And I think for that couple or a group of friends like we were, you know, we had we had a totally different mix. We had people who were like, yay, biking. We had people like yay, biking. Um, but it was more yay, friends, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yes, well, and I think you know, in that case, the luxury was choice, yes, right? It's it's an expedition, and so nobody knew where the day was going to. We had a planned route, but of course things do change. Um, but it was that luxury of choice where you didn't have to feel like you had to go on the you know 80 miles. Although on my e-bike, I could have gone a hundred. I'm just watching, okay. Um it is I know exactly talk about so natural habitat adventure. Tell me some of the I know we talked polar bears, we talked about monarch butterflies, we have wolves in Yellowstone, we have bears, the bear camp.

Thompson Safaris: Tanzania, Migration, Pride

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Talk about bear camp. Yeah, bear camp up in Alaska. I mean, that's remarkable. We have these beautiful, very Scandinavian type cabins. You fly in, you land on the beach, you're sitting right there, and the bear are digging for clams along the beach there. It from a bear perspective, this is up close and personal. I kind of laugh. We've got all the bears. We've got polar bears, we've got grizzly bears, we've got um koala bear, although in Australia we don't put bear on the end, but koalas. Um, you know, you've got monarch butterflies, you've got jaguars, you've got panda bears, uh, because we go and see the pandas, you've got snow leopards, you've got tigers, you've got, I mean, the the plethora of wildlife, but I I've got to mention one which this one just gives me goosebumps every time I watch the video. Women in the wild, these are itineraries, just they're they're created with women in mind for women travelers only. And when you listen to the reason behind it, when a woman travels, we are always thinking about do I have everyone's passport? Did I get everyone's medication? Has everyone packed their bag? Is everyone at the car? Are we at the airport? But right, you're thinking of all the other stuff that's going on. Did I turn off the electricity? Did we get all this done? You're so focused. So when you go on a holiday, you're still kind of in that coordination mode. The beauty of women in the wild is that it's just you. You you only have to take care of you and your stuff. And you find that when women get on these trips, all of a sudden they go, Wow, uh, it's it's me and other women, and we get to just talk about what we want to talk about and be in the moment and connect. And and and if you get the chance, anyone who's listening, and I know I think you've seen it, Amanda, but the video, all these women are kind of crying in the first five minutes, and not from you know, upset, but this just this relaxation of oh my gosh, this is just me. And it it's it's quite beautiful to watch.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Well, and what I love about it is the trips that I've been on that are women-based, you know, you'll have mother-daughters, you'll have grandmothers with their granddaughters, you'll have professional women that work together who want to get to, you know, friends, but then you'll also have single people who maybe have lost a spouse or a significant other or are, you know, want a trip by themselves. So it's it's such a nice variation. And I find that, you know, there is a real benefit in being with other women, and a lot of those trips have women guides and you know, very much so.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Ours are all women-led, and so that's also so special. So I I think it's just it gives another layer, uh, particularly for solo women, right? Who it can be uncomfortable being thrown on a large trip with couples and people who are together. So to know that you're not going to be on the edge of an experience is really cool. Um, but you know, just some of the amazing with they're all over the world. And every day I wake up, I kind of dance down my stairs because I'm looking at all the places we go and I'm like, that is so cool. Did you know that they can now do research with Monarch Butterflies where they can put tiny little transponders on them so they can now track them to see where they go? I mean, every time I open a page, I'm like, the research and the the knowledge and the the work that these people are doing. I think you and I have talked about this in the past too, where we say we we kind of have the best jobs. We we get to share these remarkable people with the world and help them take care of it. They've got the superpower of being out there doing the protection and the the caring for and the work. We get to just tell people about it and get them to go so that they can be a part of that saving and caring for and and learning. So it's it's it's it's super cool.

Advisor’s Role: Matching Clients To Trips

SPEAKER_01 25:51

It it is remarkable. And I think that, you know, especially with expedition travel, there is this level of involvement that you have with researchers and with, you know, when we were in Antarctica and they were literally using drones to connect to go down and collect whale snot in pea tree dishes because now they don't have to harpoon the whales anymore in order to take samples. They could tell just from their, you know, spray that they, you know, how old they are, how healthy they are. It just boggles my mind. This has been an I we could go on for so long about this subject, but I I think one thing that you know I just wanted to let people know, and especially because I've been doing so many interviews lately about expedition by sea, that I wanted to let people know that if you're not a cruiser, there are a lot of expeditions you can do on land, depending on your level of comfort. If you want to go camp in Greenland under an igloo and go kayaking out to sea, um, you know, with whales and seabirds, you can do that. Or if you want to stay in a luxury hotel and you want to still get out into nature, into the wild, Costa Rico, or uh so many other places, there are so many possibilities. And I really feel it's important that people know that it's not all the same. People are using expedition on some really mainstream uh products. And you know, not that you know what, if you're sailing, you know, through Antarctica, yes, that feels adventurous, absolutely, but they're not all the same. And it's really important that you use somebody who knows a lot about this and can just guide you to the right people. And you know, you and I work together often because if it's a destination I don't know, or if it's a destination my advisor doesn't know, they're gonna come to me and say, Hey, do you know about this? Because they know I love expedition. And then if I don't know, I'm not gonna pretend I'm gonna go to an expert like you. And so this is where it's such a great relationship. And, you know, as we move into this time where people are saying, oh, AI can build an itinerary. Well, you know what? It it can, um, whether it's right, whether it's current, whether it's accurate, AI doesn't know you, and it certainly doesn't know all of these different options that we have access to.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

And that's where it's misses, I think it misses the essence. You're right, it can put the basic bones together, but the relationships that you have with suppliers, because you know, yes, I I love that you call me an expert, but I am only an expert in that I have hundreds of experts behind me that I can go to. I have this amazing wealth of knowledge and experience and just passionate people that, you know, every day I get to go, tell me about this. Let me tell these clients why they should do this. How do how can I help Amanda with this client? So, you know, I I think that's the the many tiers of expedition is what makes it so special that we have all these levels that are working together to create these moments that that truly do take your breath away and give you goosebumps.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah. Well, that is the truth. And it is something that boy, do I love. It is once you go on an expedition and you get your feet wet and you see something up close that you just can't even believe when there's the polar bear sniffing your feet through the grate of the polar rover. It is truly, truly life-changing. Well, thank you so much, Lisa, for being here today. It's been a wonderful conversation. I laugh because some of the podcasts we've done decades ago still have people listening. I remember talking about orangutans in Borneo with you probably years ago. Yeah, and it still gets people listening. So it's so great to be with you and thank you so much for visiting the show.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

It's my absolute pleasure, Amanda. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Wonderful. Well, thank you everyone for checking in. And remember, this is the Please Go Away podcast, where we would like you to please go away, but to call us first. Thanks so much and have a great day.