SPEAKER_02: Uh we're here today with Christ Methodist new director of men's ministry.
SPEAKER_02: His name is Josh Landon.
SPEAKER_02: He'll also be serving some in the care ministry and he'll be an ordained minister of the GMC.
SPEAKER_02: Josh, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on, Lance.
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_02: So as is tradition with the show, we like to start with a couple of icebreakers.
SPEAKER_02: Since I don't know you yet, these are more generic than I like to be.
SPEAKER_02: Uh but they're still gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_02: So the first one, it's we're just gonna get silly.
SPEAKER_02: If you could have a superpower, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00: Superpower.
SPEAKER_00: Well, um, I mean you gotta go with flight, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like you've got to be able to to fly around maybe at you know as quickly as you want to go wherever you want to uh to just uh be where you want to be.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna go with flight.
SPEAKER_02: Just think about all the money you're gonna save on flights now and headache.
SPEAKER_00: You give a lot of money, right?
SPEAKER_00: Uh Southwest will not lose my bags anymore.
SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to worry about Boeing.
SPEAKER_02: Like it's a great that's that's that's just practical.
SPEAKER_00: No doors flying off that exactly.
SPEAKER_02: You're just practical.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, second question.
SPEAKER_02: How would you describe your perfect Saturday?
SPEAKER_00: Perfect Saturday.
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, probably get up early uh before the house wakes up, uh, have a cup of coffee or two, uh, sit out on the porch, uh, let the sunrise, uh, and then once the house gets stirring, uh, probably go out and find some sort of uh outdoor activity to do, uh hiking or or biking or um going to a new fun place and exploring in the city.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and moving here in Memphis is going to give us a lot of those opportunities.
SPEAKER_00: Um spend the day doing that.
SPEAKER_00: Uh come back, maybe take a little rest.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'll have a nap or not.
SPEAKER_00: Uh usually I don't take naps unless I'm sick or unless I've uh preached all morning.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then maybe dinner and movie with the the kids.
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02: So are you a morning person just in general?
SPEAKER_00: I think I am a morning person, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for the longest time.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and even still, I generally get up pretty early without an alarm clock.
SPEAKER_02: What's pretty early for you?
SPEAKER_00: For me, uh 5 30-ish.
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I I I if I if I need to get up earlier than that, uh, I'll set an alarm.
SPEAKER_00: But uh generally anything that or later, I'm I'm just already up and going.
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's impressive.
SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so last one, and then we'll jump into the conversation.
SPEAKER_02: Do you have a favorite book?
SPEAKER_00: Favorite book?
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, there's a few favorite books.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll say not the Bible, because that's always the uh the cheating answer, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: Um growing up, uh, I read the book, uh, The Count of Monte Cristo.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it was assigned maybe in like 10th grade.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I've gone back to that several times uh since then, uh, just as a uh uh a tale of uh redemption.
SPEAKER_00: There's some revenge in there.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's not the best uh uh the best thing to focus on, but uh uh but the redemption.
SPEAKER_00: And um I wouldn't be a good Methodist if I didn't mention To Kill a Mockingbird, also.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and that's uh that's from Harper Lee, of course, in Alabama.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and that one uh is one that I um actually gave to my wife uh as a birth as a Christmas present, uh, our first Christmas together.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've read it uh again several times uh since.
SPEAKER_00: I'll go back to it uh kind of in between other opportunities just to uh just to revisit it.
SPEAKER_02: So that's some classic literature.
SPEAKER_02: That seems is that kind of your forte?
SPEAKER_02: Is that one of your favorites?
SPEAKER_00: Uh that that is my uh my forte, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I don't read a lot of modern fiction.
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a lot of uh a lot of nonfiction that I read uh in Bible and in leadership and in uh history.
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh but those are the things that I uh go back to if I'm reading fiction.
SPEAKER_02: Is reading one of your favorite hobbies?
SPEAKER_02: Is it something you really enjoy?
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't get to it a a lot uh as a particular hobby.
SPEAKER_00: Um I read a lot during the day for my job, and so sometimes I uh that's not what I'll choose to do for the uh uh you know for wind down time or evening or whatever.
SPEAKER_00: But uh makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I'm obviously not opposed to reading.
SPEAKER_02: I get it.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, I appreciate you indulging me on those.
SPEAKER_02: So now we'll jump into the actual conversation.
SPEAKER_02: Let's go all the way back.
SPEAKER_02: Where are you from?
SPEAKER_00: Uh I grew up in a town called Tunnel Hill.
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's in Northwest Georgia.
SPEAKER_00: Um, like I said at the at the staff meeting the other day.
SPEAKER_00: It's uh depending on how familiar you are with northwest Georgia, I'll say Dalton or Ringold or Tunnel Hill, and that's uh a medium-sized city, uh, a small town, and then a very small, really just area.
SPEAKER_00: Tunnel Hill uh literally got its first red light uh maybe five years ago.
SPEAKER_00: Just a few hundred people there.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's only about 30 minutes, 25 minutes uh outside of Chattanooga.
SPEAKER_00: So that's uh that's where you know we would go to the movies or we would go growing up or go out to restaurants or whatever.
SPEAKER_00: So uh Northwest Georgia.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I went to uh to Middle Tennessee for college and lived in Nashville for uh for a good while after that.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Tunnel Hill sounds like a very small town.
SPEAKER_02: Did it have a very small town vibe to it?
SPEAKER_02: Was that kind of your upbringing?
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was a that was a kind of town where uh everybody uh knows everybody, uh, that uh uh sometimes political offices are kind of handed down from uh from from parent to child just because uh so-and-so was uh was police chief of this tiny little town that probably doesn't even need a police department.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then uh when when he retires, uh his son becomes police chief, and uh it goes on from there.
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm I'm very thankful for it.
SPEAKER_00: It's um like I said, it was uh is a rural area, but it wasn't isolated.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so I I got kind of the best of of both worlds.
SPEAKER_00: That uh you know, I I grew up on a farm.
SPEAKER_00: Uh my my dad was a poultry farmer.
SPEAKER_00: Uh my mom worked in the carpet industry, which is really uh really very prevalent in Northwest Georgia.
SPEAKER_00: Everybody works in textiles or in the carpet mills, uh, at least back in those days in the 80s and 90s.
SPEAKER_00: But I love it and I I love to go back and visit.
SPEAKER_02: That's uh I mean that was going to be my follow-up question.
SPEAKER_02: Is it sounds like you had a favorable experience and that you look back on it fondly?
SPEAKER_02: What were some of the things about it that are so fond for you?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one of those things where you um, you know, when you're a kid and it's all you know, you're like, oh, I can't wait to get out of here, ready to go off and do my own thing.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then when you grow up and have some perspective, uh like with a lot of things in life, uh, you realize uh how good you had it.
SPEAKER_00: So um just sort of simple things, you know, living near friends, um running and playing outside, doing whatever I want, going up and exploring into the woods and walking as far as I could uh and not running into other people, uh having a creek to uh to go stomp around in and look for crawdads and uh and whatever else.
SPEAKER_00: So just just simple pleasures like that.
SPEAKER_02: Any siblings?
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I've got an older brother.
SPEAKER_00: Uh he's um what is he, nine years and three months older than me.
SPEAKER_00: So uh he's a good bit older.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and he uh lives in northeast Georgia, uh near North and South Carolina, actually, right in the corner there.
SPEAKER_02: So y'all weren't very close growing up, I can assume.
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I mean by the time you know I was a kid, he was already in high school and uh and then off to college.
SPEAKER_00: Uh my mom says that she was afraid for the longest time we were going to kill each other because we fought a lot.
SPEAKER_00: Uh obviously, him being so much older, I couldn't compete with him physically, so I'd have to try to outwit him with my you know seven-year-old mind.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but after he went off to college, um, we grew really, really close.
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
SPEAKER_02: So you mentioned your parents and what they did.
SPEAKER_02: So what kind of relationship did you have with them?
SPEAKER_02: Were you all a close family?
SPEAKER_02: What was it like growing up?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we were uh a close family.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think we just sort of did regular, normal, everyday things.
SPEAKER_00: We had our our routines.
SPEAKER_00: Uh my dad's uh responsibilities in the farm had their own routines that we that we had to stick to.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and there wasn't a lot of leisure time as far as going off on vacations or stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00: But but we had our just our regular weekly routines, you know, Sunday morning, Sunday night in those days, uh, Wednesday nights which was church, uh, school during the week, and then uh the rest of the time, whatever else.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So you're uh so you grew up in the church.
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember what kind of church, what denomination, or anything like that?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I grew up in the Church of the Nazarene, uh, which is um really an offshoot of the Methodist church.
SPEAKER_00: Uh they they broke off late 1800s, early 1900s because of their holiness bent.
SPEAKER_00: Uh they have a stronger emphasis on uh entire sanctification, which is uh really what uh what Wesley said that God raised up the Methodists for in the first place was to to preach and to to hold fast to that doctrine.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so it's a smaller, uh, smaller group.
SPEAKER_00: There I've heard it said that there are uh more Southern Baptists in Mississippi than there are uh members of the Church of the Nazarene uh worldwide.
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's probably true.
SPEAKER_00: I think there's I think there's only I think it's still maybe a million and a half or two million worldwide, uh, but there are uh most of those are outside the United States.
SPEAKER_00: But uh but it was a good good small church.
SPEAKER_00: Uh the church I don't think was ever bigger than probably about 125 people, uh, but good uh faithful people.
SPEAKER_02: So what was your testimony growing up?
SPEAKER_02: When did you come to know the Lord then?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I was always in the church, um, and for the longest time I I don't really remember having that sort of watershed moment uh where you didn't know the Lord and you then you did.
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, we had those sort of mountaintop experiences at camps or retreats that that kids often have.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's those are fine.
SPEAKER_00: Those that's you know, that's legitimate.
SPEAKER_00: But I never felt like I was away from the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: It was a decision that I had always sort of just continually reaffirmed.
SPEAKER_00: Uh when I was in ninth grade, when I was 14, uh, we'd gone on a retreat, and I I I really felt for the first time I called a ministry and began to explore that a little bit, to talk to my pastor and to try to try to figure that out.
SPEAKER_00: But for a long time I was just sort of cool in my faith.
SPEAKER_00: Uh John Wesley has this analogy of uh of coming to the Lord as as sort of entering into God's household.
SPEAKER_00: And at one point we're outside, and at one point we're at the at the threshold, and we cross the threshold and we make a profession of faith, uh, and then we have the rest of our lives to explore the house.
SPEAKER_00: And for the longest time, uh I was standing right there with my with my back to the door, having pretty much just said yes without giving Christ the authority over my entire life, wanting him to be uh savior, but not necessarily Lord.
SPEAKER_00: And uh I think there's a lot of people like that.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's that's where I was for a long time.
SPEAKER_02: Tell me about that journey between like coming in through the door to that calling that you felt on your life to go into ministry.
SPEAKER_02: What was that journey?
SPEAKER_02: Was it something you fought against or how did it go?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: It was something I fought against.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I went kicking and screaming uh into the ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Now, for for a long time, I didn't pursue it, I didn't take it seriously uh for for lots of different reasons.
SPEAKER_02: And you felt it in ninth grade, is that what you said?
SPEAKER_02: Okay, wow.
SPEAKER_00: I uh I felt called to the ministry uh when I was 14.
SPEAKER_00: Um But um I didn't take it seriously, I wasn't responsible, and I I think it was it was immaturity, it was not trusting in God to complete this work that he began, uh to not wanting to give up uh what I thought was security of life and and me making my own decisions and doing what I want.
SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't really pursue it uh earnestly.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I kind of dabbled here and there and would stick my toe in it.
SPEAKER_00: And when it maybe became difficult, I would kind of pull back a little bit and say, no, not yet, God.
SPEAKER_00: I'm not ready.
SPEAKER_00: I can't can't do this.
SPEAKER_00: Uh of course the Bible is is full of stories of God using people who didn't want to say yes to God.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and we know that that those situations God always redeems, that God was always faithful, that that God did what he said he would do.
SPEAKER_00: But I you know that doesn't apply to me, of course, right?
SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's that's Moses.
SPEAKER_00: That's other people, that's not me.
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I did other things in life.
SPEAKER_00: I I went to college, I got degrees and other things.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I taught high school for uh a little bit over 10 years, enjoyed it, was good at it by by lots of different measures, uh, but still was at unease.
SPEAKER_00: I I never felt at peace with God, that uh that he was still chasing after me and wasn't gonna let me go.
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's that's credit to his own faithfulness that uh that even as I try to keep him at arm's length and and push him aside and you know kind of keep him in a little corner or a little box, um that he said, Nope, I'm not going to not gonna let you get off this way.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm going to disturb in a good way your your spirit and your soul uh until you come to me.
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02: Uh you talked about having by metrics you were successful in these positions.
SPEAKER_02: How do you think God is using that now?
SPEAKER_02: Because I mean he uses all the things for his good, so he's obviously using all that time that you were fighting against him to benefit your work now and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02: So how do you feel God has used that time for where you're at now?
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I I really think the you know the teaching is uh my career and teaching was was preparatory for for teaching in my role as a pastor.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and I I consistently get feedback uh to that effect.
SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes that's great, and sometimes you know that's not quite what I was going for.
SPEAKER_00: Uh people say, you know, I could tell you were a teacher.
SPEAKER_00: I say, okay, well, I I hope that's good.
SPEAKER_00: I you know, I hope that it's connected and that God you know used it for his uh for his good purposes.
SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, God doesn't waste uh anything.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and even those you know 15, 20 years, uh, when I continued to tell God no, um, he can still redeem those and use them for his glory.
SPEAKER_02: So what was it about teaching that drew you in?
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you had this internal tension dealing with this, but you decided to pursue teaching, I guess, or what did you what would you study in college?
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so I was a religion major briefly in college, and like I said, I I got away from that.
SPEAKER_00: For a while, I started as uh as a math education major.
SPEAKER_00: I was um always really good at math.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Um did really well with it.
SPEAKER_00: It came easily and and naturally.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then when I began to to go tutor and to to do uh practicum, they call it, uh, where you where you go and practice teach a little bit, uh, I found it very difficult to teach math.
SPEAKER_00: It was it was frustrating to me and it was difficult.
SPEAKER_00: I think because it was easy for me, it was difficult to work with students for whom it might not have come so easily.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and again, I was you know I was 19 and and immature and and not very patient, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I had an interest in history as well.
SPEAKER_00: I um had a really good teacher in high school uh that I um really liked and uh and and she encouraged me in that direction as well.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so I uh stayed with education but just went into history and got license to teach.
SPEAKER_00: Uh uh went back and got a master's in uh in education and instructional effectiveness, uh they called it, and really just enjoyed that aspect.
SPEAKER_00: And so it was uh, like I said, it was it was nice.
SPEAKER_00: I I taught in the in the Metro Nashville area, uh suburban Nashville.
SPEAKER_00: I taught mostly AP classes, uh AP US history and and US government, uh, which uh every teacher thinks that their class is the one that's most applicable to life.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I I really felt like I could make that argument as a as a government teacher, uh, that you know we can make sense of the the news headlines today, you know, by by what we do in this class.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So connected with kids, uh, kids got good test scores, uh, and it was fun.
SPEAKER_02: That's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_02: What did you what did you love about doing that kind of work?
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it seems like you're pouring into students, and there's I mean, you could even make the argument that you were pursuing ministry and that because you were influencing ch kids' lives and things like that.
SPEAKER_02: So what did you love about teaching?
SPEAKER_00: When you are with these students for an hour a day for 180 days, or or in some cases, uh, as we began to loop, I was with them for two years.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you get to know them very, very well, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like there are lots of high school kids that probably don't spend an hour with their parents every day.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and of course it's not one-on-one time, but um but you get to know these kids, uh, you get to know their their lives, and you build capital with them, and then you can you can expend that capital.
SPEAKER_00: You can s you can spend what you've uh what you've earned by trying to to speak truth into their life.
SPEAKER_00: And uh and kids would tell me that you know that would come through sometimes.
SPEAKER_00: Of course, we would cover and uncover and discover the material, but sometimes real life would come into the classroom uh and you would have those moments where uh you could choose to try to connect with the kids where you could try to speak something into their life that they needed to hear, uh, or you could try to stuff it away and say that's not what this class is about.
SPEAKER_00: And uh and I often uh would choose the the former and not the latter.
SPEAKER_02: So you taught for a while.
SPEAKER_02: What did you have a watershed moment for sacrificing and going into ministry, or what was that that kind of transitional period for you?
SPEAKER_00: So um in the late uh 2000s, I guess, 2009, 2010, this unease that I felt in my personal life, my spiritual life, uh was kind of coming to a head.
SPEAKER_00: It was a crescendo where it was untenable.
SPEAKER_00: I I I knew that I could I could not bear the weight uh for the rest of my life, for the next 40 years, God willing or or more or whatever, to not be faithful to this.
SPEAKER_00: And so uh I began praying, uh speaking with my wife, praying with my wife uh about this.
SPEAKER_00: We realized that you know it's it's never the wrong decision to be faithful, it's never the wrong decision to uh to do what God's calling you to do.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I began to uh to speak to one of the pastors at my church there.
SPEAKER_00: I was at Murfreesboro uh First Methodist, um, where we went there in Rutford County.
SPEAKER_00: She began to to pray with me and walk me through uh what this process might look like, you know, where where God might be calling me, what uh what gifts and and talents and graces I have uh to offer.
SPEAKER_00: And uh ultimately we uh we decided to to follow that call into ordained ministry and to go to seminary.
SPEAKER_00: I I often say that my penance for uh for waiting uh or for putting God off for so long is going to seminary with three young kids.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we had uh we had a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and a one-year-old uh when we went to seminary.
SPEAKER_00: Uh God bless my wife as uh as I was a full-time student, she was uh she was dealing a lot uh with that at home.
SPEAKER_02: Well I can only imagine how terrifying that whole experience had to be.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just the the complete dependence that you had to have on God for that.
SPEAKER_02: Can you talk about that a little bit?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was uh it was intimidating for sure.
SPEAKER_00: Um I was um there are lots of aspects to picking your life up and and going in not just a new career, but having to uh have new training for it, to go to a new place, to uh to start over in lots of different ways.
SPEAKER_00: And uh like I said, I was a teacher, and so um, you know, there frankly there wasn't a lot of extra just cash lying around to pay for uh three years of uh of graduate uh tuition.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so I I told God, I said, God, if you're calling me to seminary, you're going to uh have to find a way to uh help me prepare to you know pay for this.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I don't I I'm not going to me telling God I'm not going to again, I don't want to uh take out you know six-figure loans uh to try to pay back if that was the option.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and God in his providence uh made a way uh that there was a I received a full scholarship, uh received um even beyond a full scholarship with uh with stipends uh on top of that uh to attend uh seminary.
SPEAKER_00: And so uh that was wonderful.
SPEAKER_00: We found a nice little home really close to campus that that made it easy for me for us to come and go, you know, just five minutes away from Emory uh there in Atlanta.
SPEAKER_00: God made lots of little provisions uh all along the way uh that made it made it doable.
SPEAKER_02: Uh just knowing human nature, there had to be moments of doubt in all of that.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even by your own story, you're saying that you're telling God like I can't do this unless you do this.
SPEAKER_02: How did you rely on him in those seasons of doubt that I'm sure popped up?
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think a lot of being a Christian is uh is reminding us and reminding others of what we already know that uh that God has these witnesses in scripture, uh in church history, and uh if uh if we allow him to speak into our lives, probably in the sanctuary or or in Seabrook Hall right down the row from us, these people that can uh can speak to us about God's faithfulness and work in their lives, that they can give us testimonies.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so uh it's it's just a matter of not allowing temporary circumstances to have permanent, you know, make permanent decisions for temporary circumstances, uh not uh not allowing uh what might be urgent to overcome or to shadow what might be important, uh to sort of uh make those decisions um as best you can uh in counsel, of course, with uh with praying for God to God and uh with other Christians and uh and and with the story that he tells us.
SPEAKER_02: There's something I want to go back to what you said a minute ago because it's resonating with something Paul said from the pulpit several months ago.
SPEAKER_02: And it's just about this this nagging call that you have in your life, and this people talk about the fear of like going full in on Christianity because they're afraid God's gonna call them to act.
SPEAKER_02: Africa or something like that.
SPEAKER_02: But you know, what Paul made from the pulpit and what you're saying now is that when God puts a call on your life, nothing else makes you happy unless you're doing that.
SPEAKER_02: Can you give encouragement to people who may be struggling with that or dealing with a similar situation?
SPEAKER_02: What's your encouragement for them?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's uh that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I guess my encouragement uh is that God loves you and and and sees you and and he will not call you to something uh that he will not find his own delight in.
SPEAKER_00: Uh he won't call you to something that uh will not ultimately delight you.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and there are there are seasons of of growth and and seasons of stretching.
SPEAKER_00: Uh there are seasons uh where we may have questions or or doubts uh where we may we may not know where that road ends, right?
SPEAKER_00: It may end in selling all we have and giving to the poor or going on the other side of the world or whatever, but but that's exactly right, is that uh we will find our our joy in those things and that um that God will uh ultimately use all of them.
SPEAKER_00: Uh even using our doubt, even using our own sordid histories, even even using uh every last bit of us uh for his own glory, uh for his own honor, for his own uh praise.
SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02: So I want to get into specifics.
SPEAKER_02: We've talked a lot about the hardship of getting into seminary and doing that path.
SPEAKER_02: What did you love about seminary?
SPEAKER_02: What what did you enjoy?
SPEAKER_02: What were some of the things that really piqued your interest in your studies?
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I've um I've always enjoyed school.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and um, you know, I I went straight through undergrad and and grad school when I was younger.
SPEAKER_00: Uh it was it was great to have that time period to set aside to study.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I developed a love of scripture and of the word in seminary that I did not have before.
SPEAKER_00: Um I began to understand it from different angles.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I began to understand that that God's telling one story uh from the very beginning of time uh until this very moment, uh until the end of time, uh, one one story that is told a hundred different ways throughout scripture.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so I I really very much uh fell in love with uh with the Bible then.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I also began to understand more about what what are Wesleyan uh distinctives.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I don't know that I I would have been able to articulate those as well and uh before seminary.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and for me it it makes uh it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: Uh that there are, of course, many different Christians who believe many different things, but I agree with John Wesley that that God is uh is saving us and saving us to the uttermost, and that we are to uh to work out our salvation uh with fear and trembling uh together in a in a social holiness fashion as he as he called us to, um, that that we were made in community and and by community and and for community, uh that we're we're not meant to go about this by ourselves, uh, but with uh with brothers and sisters along the way.
SPEAKER_02: Where did you go after seminary?
SPEAKER_02: You finished seminary, what was your first job out?
SPEAKER_00: Uh my first job after seminary was a halftime appointment in uh the Southwest District of the uh the Florida Annual Conference.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Uh so um we wanted to transfer.
SPEAKER_00: I was coming uh from uh at that time, what was the Middle Tennessee Conference?
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the the DS and the the bishop there said we can get you into Florida.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh at this time all we have is a is a halftime appointment.
SPEAKER_00: And so uh it was actually it was actually a great first appointment.
SPEAKER_00: Um it was a a lovely church and it was it was close to family.
SPEAKER_00: Uh there were there were good people there who were willing to be the hands and feet of Christ in their community to tell people about Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: And so it was uh it was it was a small church, but they had a lot of heart.
SPEAKER_02: Take us between there and where you are now.
SPEAKER_02: Where what have you been doing between that first appointment and coming to Christchurch?
SPEAKER_00: So that that first appointment ended uh during uh COVID.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that was a difficult time to to transition, uh, right, 20, uh, we we moved in the in 2020, the summer of 2020, um, just a couple months after kind of COVID came and break uh broke out and was uh was on the scene, uh still very much uh in that that sort of haze of what you know what's this gonna look like.
SPEAKER_00: And uh it was difficult to transition because uh at the at the new church, um, which was a full-time appointment, uh, you know, it was hard to meet people.
SPEAKER_00: Uh people didn't, you know, we were still meeting outside at that point, uh having uh services in a field.
SPEAKER_00: And it was difficult to meet people.
SPEAKER_00: And uh when someone would come, you know, you wouldn't know if they were a first-time visitor or if they were, you know, had been at the church for 50 years.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and when people weren't there, you didn't know if that was because they had just stopped coming or if they, you know, hadn't been there in 15 years or whatever.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so that was difficult.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we we made our way through that.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we uh we were in a a small church in a town called uh Wachula.
SPEAKER_00: It was uh uh in the center of the state agricultural community, uh a large uh immigrant community there, and that was at uh at first church in Wachula, a uh in Hardy County.
SPEAKER_00: It was a what they call a county seat church, but it was a uh a small county seat church.
SPEAKER_00: My most recent appointment uh was at Sun City Center uh United Methodist Church.
SPEAKER_00: Uh Sun City Center is a is a designated uh one of the original Del Webb retirement communities from the 50s.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Uh so you have to be a retiree to live there.
SPEAKER_00: Uh or maybe not a retiree, you you have to be uh retiree age to live there.
SPEAKER_00: So we uh my family and I actually lived on the outskirts.
SPEAKER_00: We didn't live in that town.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we lived uh a few miles away at the next town over.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and that was a large church, um, but it was uh a, as you would expect, a very uh very elderly church, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: Uh there were some some statistics that were really, really wild at that church.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we had uh more people uh over the age of 90 than under the age of 60.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: Um the the average uh age of attendance uh was almost 77.
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it's it's fine.
SPEAKER_00: You know, ministry is is what it is in your community, um, but it's it's different in a in a senior community than than than not.
SPEAKER_00: Um and so we you know we attempted to sort of make some inroads to the to the periphery where there were uh other groups besides seniors, and uh, you know, we had some success.
SPEAKER_00: Uh had some uh some setbacks like you would expect, but um, but you know, movement in the in the same direction.
SPEAKER_00: You know, for for a lot of reasons, um I I I came to understand over the last several years that uh that my future was not going to lie uh in that form of denomination.
SPEAKER_00: And so um so I began to to to pray about it, uh began to uh pursue um and to explore opportunities uh for an exit path uh to try to find uh where where God might be leading us.
SPEAKER_02: So I'm guessing based on how you went from teaching to seminary as you kind of decided to to leave the UMC and to look for something else, you had a little bit of prep.
SPEAKER_02: Like you had already kind of had a little bit of history with God and kind of moving in that department in that lane, did you find a lot of reliance on your previous experience in that transitional period?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's uh that's a great way to put it.
SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know that uh really until just now uh I've made that connection, but maybe uh thank you for that.
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
SPEAKER_00: Um but but maybe in the back of my mind, or you know, we've gone through this before or done done this before.
SPEAKER_00: The the analogy is not exactly the same.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah um, but but the starting over aspect of it, sort of the uncertainty of it, you know, where this might l or this might land or end up, um, those those certainly um are similar.
SPEAKER_02: Well, you've mentioned them several times, and I think it's time and it's appropriate that we talk about your family some.
SPEAKER_02: So I want to know about your wife, tell me Monica.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_02: So tell me how you and Monica met.
SPEAKER_00: Uh Monica, um, her roommate and my roommate were dating in college.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I always make a joke, and I'll say this, you know, from the outset.
SPEAKER_00: This is a joke.
SPEAKER_00: She was dating some loser from the military academy at West Point.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they broke up.
SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, he wasn't a loser, he was very accomplished, but uh but they they did break up and uh and uh homecoming was coming up, and um so Monica's roommate uh and uh and my roommate got together and uh uh and and and connected us and told us to uh encourage me to ask her out.
SPEAKER_00: Uh ultimately uh I did, and uh we've been together uh ever since.
SPEAKER_00: That would be um our first date was would be 25 years this uh summer.
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we got married um about a year and a half after that.
SPEAKER_00: So we got married at at uh at Christmas uh the year 2000.
SPEAKER_02: So were y'all friends?
SPEAKER_02: Did y'all know each other before?
SPEAKER_02: Or is it kind of a blind date situation?
SPEAKER_00: Um kind of somewhere in between.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Um the school was relatively small.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we were the same year, so we kind of I I knew of her and I think she knew of me, but uh we weren't uh we weren't friends or social before that.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02: But y'all fell in love pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00: We we did, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Uh um she went home and wrote uh in her jer her diary that uh uh that maybe I was the one and uh on the first date?
SPEAKER_00: I I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
SPEAKER_00: And so uh I you know I didn't have a diary uh back then, um, but uh but certainly felt uh something similar.
SPEAKER_00: And so we uh we got married uh Christmas uh 2000.
SPEAKER_00: Our children, our first child was born uh Annalise uh in July of 2010.
SPEAKER_00: So she'll be 14 uh next year.
SPEAKER_00: Uh Simon uh was May of 2012, so he just turned 12 uh a few weeks ago.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and Andrew just turned 10 uh earlier this year.
SPEAKER_00: So they are uh they're really close in age.
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02: So this next question, it's two questions, but they're the same question, just different topic.
SPEAKER_02: So I want to know first, how did your wife and your relationship with your wife move you towards sanctification?
SPEAKER_02: And the same applied to your kids.
SPEAKER_02: How do they move you closer to the sanctification?
SPEAKER_00: Well, they they both inspire me to want to be you know the best Christian I can for their own sake, right?
SPEAKER_00: As uh as husband and uh and as father.
SPEAKER_00: Monica is a is a perfect uh wife, uh, and I am I'm very blessed to have her.
SPEAKER_00: And uh and and sometimes um you know as as spouses do, she has the faith for both of us, maybe when when I'm in a season of doubt or uh or struggling, and and and I hope that I I'm the same way for her.
SPEAKER_00: Uh for my kids, um scriptures are are clear that um that parents' responsibility is to teach their children to to love and fear the Lord and and and fear in a good and holy way, right?
SPEAKER_00: Not not a you know, that that word is sometimes misinterpreted, but uh uh to have a a loving fear and and love for the for God.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I I want to do that.
SPEAKER_00: We want to save our kids from the struggles that we have uh in in our own lives.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so uh I I want to inspire my kids, hopefully, with God's help, to uh to not have the to face the to face the the same battles that I had, uh of of not trusting God, of trying to go out on your own, trying to rely on yourself.
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, this is this is not the way.
SPEAKER_00: There there's a better way, uh and and you can walk in it.
SPEAKER_02: Well, as we start to wrap up, we'll focus on the now and where you're sitting now.
SPEAKER_02: What excites you the most about working at Christ Methodist as the men's director?
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a lot of things uh that's that that excite me.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let me pull up my list here.
SPEAKER_00: Um number one, it's to to be joining this uh great staff of which you are a part.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but to uh to to join with uh with everyone from from the senior pastor Paul all the way down uh to carry out this vision that that God has for his church.
SPEAKER_00: And church with a capital C, but you know, here localized at Christ Church Memphis, uh to be a church that spreads the gospel, that uh invites other people to be a part of what God is doing, to be a a part of God's great plan uh to bring salvation to the nations, uh to bring back reconciliation and life with him, and and not just not just saving us for heaven in the future, but but life with God, this holy communion can begin today if uh if we will allow uh him to work it in our lives.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and he will work it uh by his own grace uh if we allow him to do it.
SPEAKER_00: And so uh I am glad to be uh a part of this staff and uh and its work and its ministry here in the city and all around the world, uh, and specifically for my particular role to work with the the men that that God has given uh all of us a particular role in our in our lives.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I want to share what God has done in my life and and I I want to invite the men, and and I've been so encouraged already uh with the work that Grant and and Mike have uh have done and and others that I want them to be able to see that God is calling us to a deeper, richer, fuller uh life with him right now, and that it's better than uh than anything that the world can give us.
SPEAKER_02: I think that story will resonate just I mean, hearing your story and how you felt the calling that you avoided for so long and just the depth of your reverence for God and your family now, I mean, it just it bleeds through your life, and I I think that story is really going to resonate with people.
SPEAKER_02: So as we wrap up today, I just want to say thank you.
SPEAKER_02: And on behalf of the congregation, we're excited to have you.
SPEAKER_02: Can't wait to s to see the work and ministry that you're gonna get to have here.
SPEAKER_02: And uh welcome to the staff.
SPEAKER_02: We're excited to have you.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to be here.